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View Full Version : Analytical look at Denver's O and D lines



rationalfan
11-01-2013, 11:57 AM
better than i realized. denver's O line ranks at the top of the league so far (no doubt, partially because of manning). and the defense is 10th in creating pressure - the team's D line is especially impressive.

check the stats in this link, but be aware you do have to scroll down a ways to get there.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/31/carolina-panthers-charles-johnson-nfl-week-8-pressure-points-greg-bedard/

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
11-01-2013, 12:42 PM
I thought we had the best O line in the league before Clady got hurt.

Joel
11-01-2013, 01:37 PM
I'm dubious of any analysis where half a season worth of stats puts our defensive line third overall in "pressure points." I guess we were getting even more coverage and/or garbage time sacks than I thought before Miller returned, because we sure didn't get mahy of the more valuable kind. Perhaps I should take comfort in that though, because we've only faced two of their individual season leaders (in separate game,) but after the bye and San Diego we fact the #1 and #9, plus their Unsung Interior Rusher, all in one game. Then their Unsung Edge Rusher, then the first group again, but on its home field.

I HOPE our offensive line's good even without Clady, because from here on it MUST be. Ninkovich may be "unsung" at MMQB, but Broncos fans should remember him ripping our offense apart the last three times we played NE. It's great we're 7-1, but we haven't beaten a winning team yet (kind of like last year, when we were 13-3 but only beat two winning teams, one of which paid us back in the playoffs.)

Lancane
11-01-2013, 09:30 PM
We've continually had one of the best offensive lines...Manning has little to do with it, it was the same under Cutler, Orton and Tebow.

Joel
11-02-2013, 06:17 AM
We've continually had one of the best offensive lines...Manning has little to do with it, it was the same under Cutler, Orton and Tebow.
In pass protection, yes; run blocking, not so much. It's been a while since we had quality run blocking; at least since Shanny left, but even then our undersized ZBS linemen had trouble generating line surge in short yardage/goal line situations. They were quick and agile, good at cutting guys in the open field or pulling to block downfield (like Beadles now) but on 3rd and 1 or 4th and G they usually went backward at the snap.

Until Clady and Franklin went down it looked like we'd finally corrected that, and it showed in Moreno averaging >5 yards per carry. There were big frequent holes, and getting 2-3 extra yards by making the first guy miss or breaking the first tackle was good enough for Moreno to pick up 5-6 yards each time instead of 2-3. We didn't have DTs and LBs in our backfield by the time the QB handed off, which was a staple of (or nail in) are running game for years. Since both starting tackles got hurt though it's been back to the bad old days, and Morenos season rushing average has dropped a full yard over the last two games.

There were a few bright spots last week (mainly opening a 4th and 2 hole so Moreno picked up 5, and the pile churning forward 4 yards to carry Ball over the goal line,) but for the most part it was more of the same. More of what forced us to punt back to Baltimore at the end of regulation in last years playoff game. Our great offense isn't; the PASSING game is setting records, but our rushing total is ranked 16th and rushing average 23rd, as close to average as it gets, in a league that runs less than at any other point in its 90 year history. Some of that's only having one respectable back, but much of it is poor blocking.

That's a problem, because if teams can sell out on the pass all game even Manning and our receiving hydra will have problems (especially since the NFL's decided it's okay to illegally maul Broncos receivers and passers.) Every defense but ours loves Two Minute Drills because they simplify the Ds job by eliminating the guessing game: The linemen and LBs can pin their ears back and charge the QB while 5-6 DBs play coverage without worrying about coming up to stop nonexistent running. If we play our whole season that way, expect an early playoff exit.

TXBRONC
11-02-2013, 07:56 AM
I'm not surprised that Denver's offensive line is ranked where it is. I'm curious how they're coming up with pressure numbers for the defensive line. How do you separate out when the Broncos are sending extra pressure and when it coverage sack. That said, the last two games it seems noticeable that Denver is getting more pressure on the quarterback the last two games. They got Luck to move off his spots several times two weeks ago unfortunately Denver lost. Last week they got plenty of pressure on RGIII the entire game.

Joel
11-02-2013, 11:40 AM
I'm not surprised that Denver's offensive line is ranked where it is. I'm curious how they're coming up with pressure numbers for the defensive line. How do you separate out when the Broncos are sending extra pressure and when it coverage sack. That said, the last two games it seems noticeable that Denver is getting more pressure on the quarterback the last two games. They got Luck to move off his spots several times two weeks ago unfortunately Denver lost. Last week they got plenty of pressure on RGIII the entire game.
Just a guess, but if they're watching film (as it appears) they can count the guys rushing to know whether it's a blitz (i.e. 5+ rushers.) According to their definitions, a coverage sack is any sack >3.3 seconds after the snap (a bit of an arbitrary and brief number, but the one they cite.)

Ravage!!!
11-02-2013, 01:22 PM
That's not an arbitrary number. I believe that the average time for a QB to get rid of the ball after snap is 3 seconds. Therefore, anything over the 3.3 would be considered "longer" than average, hence the QB having to hold onto the ball longer than normal.

Joel
11-02-2013, 03:30 PM
That's not an arbitrary number. I believe that the average time for a QB to get rid of the ball after snap is 3 seconds. Therefore, anything over the 3.3 would be considered "longer" than average, hence the QB having to hold onto the ball longer than normal.
Fair enough then, but 3 (or 4) full seconds would make more since than an oddly precise number like 3.3.

CrazyHorse
11-03-2013, 01:15 AM
Fair enough then, but 3 (or 4) full seconds would make more since than an oddly precise number like 3.3.

I don't know about that. 40 times are measured by tenths of second.

Ravage!!!
11-04-2013, 02:48 PM
Fair enough then, but 3 (or 4) full seconds would make more since than an oddly precise number like 3.3.


I don't know about that. 40 times are measured by tenths of second.

and considering we are talking about the time it takes to get to the QB, and the time it takes to get rid of the ball, it makes sense to measure in tenths of a second.

1 and 1/3 second seems like a good number to go by when the average time to deliver the pass is 3 seconds.

Captain Speardog
11-05-2013, 12:21 AM
We've continually had one of the best offensive lines...Manning has little to do with it, it was the same under Cutler, Orton and Tebow.

Manning has everything to do with it. He gets rid of the ball in under 3 seconds almost every single play. Under Tebow Clady allowed 9 sacks, Orton would trip over his own feet.

The O-line is very good, playing in front of Manning they are great.