Wesley Woodyard........the New Al Wilson

[Ziggy]

Undoubtedly the heart and soul of this defense, Woody has become the glue that holds this unit together. He brings passion, speed, skill, and heart to this D. While many of us thought that Von was the key ingredient, Woody may be more important to this team at this point. I don't dispute the fact that Von has more talent. Still, Woody combines his talent with leadership, heart, and a nastiness that raises the level of play from this entire defense. The Skins game was the first game of the season that had all of our LB'ers on the field at the same time. It took a couple of quarters to crank it up, but once they all got in synch, the game was over.

Re-signing him should be priority #1 in the offseason, closely followed by DRC and Chris Harris. He has quickly become my favorite Bronco. Anyone else remember what Al Wilson brought to this team, and what went missing when he left? It's baaaaaack! Keep your hands inside the ride at all times folks. The 2nd half of the 2013 season is going to be even more fun to watch than the first half was.

[ForgettingBrandonMarshall]

I'm just happy that when he gets his hands on someone, he takes them down. He's one guy you don't have to worry about when it comes to tackling.

Interesting comparison to Al Wilson. I loved watching him dive over the Oline in goal line situations and flatten the RB.

[G_Money]

Woodyard is not an intimidator like Al Wilson. Al made people scared to cross him. Woodyard IS the attitude of the defense. He's talking on every play, both to our guys and theirs. He gets everybody in the right places. He's the sideline leader, the motivator. He's out talking to the OFFENSIVE guys when they make good plays, chatting up special teamers...

Von is a great player, but Woodyard is a leader. Von is very much like his idol, Derrick Thomas: probably the most talented guy on the field, but not the guy you follow into battle.

Woodyard has always been a leader. And a good citizen. And a MUCH better player than he was ever given credit for. I'm so thrilled that we picked him up after I spent all draft day screaming that he was still there. He doesn't bring Wilson's bulk to the position of MLB, but with Trevathan a very nice Will (who is also not the sharpest tool in the drawer) it's great to have Wesley's intelligence and aptitude out there. He can hype the guys up or calm em down.

He and Al definitely have that in common. Wesley's been a captain for 4 years now. That's not a coincidence. We could have lost him a couple years ago, but thank God we were able to re-sign him and then DJ threw himself off the Stupid Cliff and freed up a position so we could see how valuable Wes actually is.

My favorite Bronco as well. :salute: And since we've set the defense up perfectly with those HUGE DTs inside to occupy the linemen and free up Woody and Trevathan to fly to the ball, their size shouldn't be an issue.

We have the right LBs for the job playing out there right now. If they can stay healthy the rest of the year we should be in great shape.

~G

[MOtorboat]

Woodyard is not an intimidator like Al Wilson. Al made people scared to cross him. Woodyard IS the attitude of the defense. He's talking on every play, both to our guys and theirs. He gets everybody in the right places. He's the sideline leader, the motivator. He's out talking to the OFFENSIVE guys when they make good plays, chatting up special teamers...

Von is a great player, but Woodyard is a leader. Von is very much like his idol, Derrick Thomas: probably the most talented guy on the field, but not the guy you follow into battle.

Woodyard has always been a leader. And a good citizen. And a MUCH better player than he was ever given credit for. I'm so thrilled that we picked him up after I spent all draft day screaming that he was still there. He doesn't bring Wilson's bulk to the position of MLB, but with Trevathan a very nice Will (who is also not the sharpest tool in the drawer) it's great to have Wesley's intelligence and aptitude out there. He can hype the guys up or calm em down.

He and Al definitely have that in common. Wesley's been a captain for 4 years now. That's not a coincidence. We could have lost him a couple years ago, but thank God we were able to re-sign him and then DJ threw himself off the Stupid Cliff and freed up a position so we could see how valuable Wes actually is.

My favorite Bronco as well. :salute: And since we've set the defense up perfectly with those HUGE DTs inside to occupy the linemen and free up Woody and Trevathan to fly to the ball, their size shouldn't be an issue.

We have the right LBs for the job playing out there right now. If they can stay healthy the rest of the year we should be in great shape.

~G

It is pretty nice to have a cerebral player in Woodyard calling plays whose still tough enough and fast enough to get after it when the ball is snapped. Especially when we do have four "see ball, hit ball" players around him (Miller, Travathan, Ihenacho, Moore).

[aberdien]

I just wanna know when they're gonna start selling Woodyard jerseys so I can buy one.

[CoachChaz]

I just wanna know when they're gonna start selling Woodyard jerseys so I can buy one.

China has them

[aberdien]

China has them

china.com?

[CoachChaz]

Yeah...that's it

[Ziggy]

I just wanna know when they're gonna start selling Woodyard jerseys so I can buy one.


china.com?

http://www.cheapjerseys-china.com/Cheap-Broncos-Jerseys-china-wholesale/3563-cheap-Wesley-Woodyard-Broncos-limited-Jersey-China.html

[CoachChaz]

http://www.cheapjerseys-china.com/Cheap-Broncos-Jerseys-china-wholesale/3563-cheap-Wesley-Woodyard-Broncos-limited-Jersey-China.html

All kinds of sites. Just Google "cheap nfl jersey china" and it will bring up a ton of places to get them

[aberdien]

WHOA that's badass. The internet is awesome. How safe is ordering from such websites?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I just wanna know when they're gonna start selling Woodyard jerseys so I can buy one.

The NFL has them

http://www.nflshop.com/Wesley_Woodyard_Denver_Broncos_Jerseys

[topscribe]

With Woody, the Broncos have great leadership. All three - Woody, Danny, and
Von - are good tacklers. There is one more attribute that makes this group
special: SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!

Oh, am I going to love to see these guys, spear-headed by Woody, play! :woot:
.

[tomjonesrocks]

http://www.cheapjerseys-china.com/Cheap-Broncos-Jerseys-china-wholesale/3563-cheap-Wesley-Woodyard-Broncos-limited-Jersey-China.html


Really hated that collar. The NFL's gone away from that polo-shirt-look, China-- get your shit together.

[TXBRONC]

Woodyard is a better linebacker than Wilson.

[SR]

Woodyard is better linebacker than Wilson.

I wouldn't say that at all. Different styles.

[LTC Pain]

Say this real fast 100 times "VonWoodVathan". It's the name of the new three-headed beast in Denver giving headaches to NFL offenses.

[SR]

Say this real fast 100 times "VonWoodVathan". It's the name of the new three-headed beast in Denver giving headaches to NFL offenses.

TreMillYard

I was gonna say TreVonYard but the TreVon part could have negative connotation.

[Northman]

Woodyard is better linebacker than Wilson.

Yea, glad someone else believes the same. Its going to be very unpopular on here im sure but i think Wes is worlds above better than Al not only in play but in leadership.

[SR]

Yea, glad someone else believes the same. Its going to be very unpopular on here im sure but i think Wes is worlds above better than Al not only in play but in leadership.

It's unpopular because it's not accurate.

[Northman]

It's unpopular because it's not accurate.

Nah, it just depends on perspective thats all.

[MOtorboat]

Yea, glad someone else believes the same. Its going to be very unpopular on here im sure but i think Wes is worlds above better than Al not only in play but in leadership.

Worlds above? I would completely disagree with that. But I think there's an argument that there are things Woodyard does better than Wilson, for sure. I think Woodyard is more of a cerebral player, and maybe better at making calls. He's faster, better in coverage, but he's not the tackler Wilson was and I'm not sure he's the "leader" that Wilson was.

Wilson was the heart and soul of that defense for 8 seasons.

[Northman]

Worlds above? I would completely disagree with that. But I think there's an argument that there are things Woodyard does better than Wilson, for sure. I think Woodyard is more of a cerebral player, and maybe better at making calls. He's faster, better in coverage, but he's not the tackler Wilson was and I'm not sure he's the "leader" that Wilson was.

Wilson was the heart and soul of that defense for 8 seasons.


Worlds above might of been a stretch but i do think Wes is the heart and soul of this defense. I just see way more leadership from Wes than i ever saw from Al. But their numbers are pretty close going by Woodyard's games started.

36 games (Wesley)

4 FF
236 tackles
8 sacks
1 Int


42 games (Al)

9 sacks
177 tackles
3 FF
3 Int

[MOtorboat]

Worlds above might of been a stretch but i do think Wes is the heart and soul of this defense. I just see way more leadership from Wes than i ever saw from Al. But their numbers are pretty close going by Woodyard's games started.

36 games (Wesley)

4 FF
236 tackles
8 sacks
1 Int


42 games (Al)

9 sacks
177 tackles
3 FF
3 Int

It's pretty hard to compare a guy who played six years, but only became a regular starter in year five to a guy who started immediately. If you can break it down to the games he started only, it might be some sort of accurate comparison, but to me that's hard to swallow.

Woodyard's first six seasons:
351 total tackles
4 INT
4 FF
1 FR

Wilson's first six seasons:
544 total tackles
5 INT
5 FF
6 FR

That also includes 3 Pro Bowl selections for Wilson, too.

[Northman]

It's pretty hard to compare a guy who played six years, but only became a regular starter in year five to a guy who started immediately. If you can break it down to the games he started only, it might be some sort of accurate comparison, but to me that's hard to swallow.

Woodyard's first six seasons:
351 total tackles
4 INT
4 FF
1 FR

Wilson's first six seasons:
544 total tackles
5 INT
5 FF
6 FR

That also includes 3 Pro Bowl selections for Wilson, too.

Unfortunately using all the games they played isnt a fair comparison. Thats why i went with the amount of games (which Wilson still had a handful of more games in that comparion). Its not really Wes fault that he didnt get the starting gig right away nor where he was drafted.

[Slick]

I would say Wes is definately the heart and soul, and leader of his defense and the same for Al. I'm not ready to say Wes is a better player than Al at this point.

[topscribe]

Worlds above? I would completely disagree with that. But I think there's an argument that there are things Woodyard does better than Wilson, for sure. I think Woodyard is more of a cerebral player, and maybe better at making calls. He's faster, better in coverage, but he's not the tackler Wilson was and I'm not sure he's the "leader" that Wilson was.

Wilson was the heart and soul of that defense for 8 seasons.
I loved Wilson, and he was a thumper, for sure. But he did occasionally have trouble wrapping up.
.

[MOtorboat]

Unfortunately using all the games they played isnt a fair comparison. Thats why i went with the amount of games (which Wilson still had a handful of more games in that comparion). Its not really Wes fault that he didnt get the starting gig right away nor where he was drafted.

It's not a fair comparison either way. In your comparison, Woodyard has played in 79 games versus Wilson playing in 47. In mine, Woodyard has played in 79 and Wilson has played in 95. Even if you back up Wilson's stats to five years, which is exactly 79 games played for both players, his stats are superior, but he obviously played more minutes in his 79 games than Wilson did.

Either way, it's hard to make any sort of statistical comparison to prove any sort of point about which player is better.

Wilson was a better tackler and I think a better leader, Woodyard is better in coverage, faster and a little more heady. I would still put Wilson above Woodyard until we see Woodyard hold down the MLB job for a few years. Remember, he's only been a regular starter for 1 1/2 seasons now, and just seven games at MLB.

[G_Money]

I love Woodyard, but Wilson (before his shoulder and thumb injuries made him a hitter instead of a tackler) was a monster. Don't sell Al short. He was absolutely terrific. Diagnosed and blew up plays all over the field, terrific leader, sure tackler early in his career, hard hitter and mean run stuffer.

Woodyard is a different kind of backer, but very good. Just very different. Great in pursuit, very sure hands-tackler but can thump like a strong safety when he's going, tears apart plays in the flat (usually at the Will) is a good delay blitzer (tho Wilson was too)...

Different players, but very shortly both should have Pro Bowlers on their resume as well.

~G

[VonDoom]

Remember when we were concerned about our MLB position this year? Yeah, me neither :D

Seriously, Woodyard has been tremendous, and by sliding him over, we have room for Trevathan and Miller to be out there at the same time. Great solution if it worked, and I'd say it's worked marvelously.

[Dzone]

http://www.cheapjerseys-china.com/Cheap-Broncos-Jerseys-china-wholesale/3563-cheap-Wesley-Woodyard-Broncos-limited-Jersey-China.html
Too bad they dont look real, but for $23, whos complaining ? LOL

[Ziggy]

Woodyard is far better in coverage, but Al was a beast against the run and far better at shedding blocks. They have two different styles, but both are highly productive. Both are the defensive leaders and captains, and both make the defense worlds better. Most people don't know just how strong of a leader Al Wilson was on and off the field. He took the entire defense out to dinner once a week and always picked up the tab. On the field, he was the undisputed leader and field general just as Wesley Woodyard is. Al ended up playing in 5 pro bowls. Wesley should see some soon.

[Slick]

Wes should at least buy Knighton and Vickerson dinner. Those guys have kept him pretty clean. I was worried about Woodyard holding up in the middle due to his size, not his heart and skill. Those big boys have kept Wes from getting pancaked by guards and centers.

I hope he gets tons of rest and heals up. Safe to say he's our defensive mvp at this point.

[Lancane]

Woodyard is a great ballplayer and I respect so much of what he does and has given as a Bronco, to both the team and community. But he is no Al Wilson who belongs in talks with the likes of Lewis, Urlacher and Seau. But like Gradishar he's overlooked because he was a Bronco and not one to hail from a media darling team.

[Broncolingus]

Most 'leaders' have different styles & techniques of leadership...

I think Wes and Al are no different, - but BOTH were and are effective LEADERS of the defense.

As far as players, same thing - each had/has things they do better technically on the field than the other, but again, I think both are EFFECTIVE Mike LBs.

Wes will be a BIG part if Denver has any postseason success this year...

JMO...

[DenBronx]

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[Northman]

In your comparison, Woodyard has played in 79 games versus Wilson playing in 47.

Incorrect MO. I even stated how many games they started in with my initial post. Woody with 36 and Wilson with 42. not sure where you came up with your numbers. :lol:

[Northman]

But he is no Al Wilson who belongs in talks with the likes of Lewis, Urlacher and Seau. But like Gradishar he's overlooked because he was a Bronco and not one to hail from a media darling team.

No ******* way....

[TXBRONC]

I wouldn't say that at all. Different styles.

Woodyard is a better tackler, has a little more range. better hands and seems to be every bit the leader on the field that Wilson was.

[TXBRONC]

Yea, glad someone else believes the same. Its going to be very unpopular on here im sure but i think Wes is worlds above better than Al not only in play but in leadership.

Leadership wise I don't know but ability yes. It's not that I don't like Al Wilson he was very good I just think Woodyard is better overall player.

[Northman]

Leadership wise I don't know but ability wise yes. It's not that I don't like Al Wilson he was very good I just think Woodyard is better overall player.

Same.

[MOtorboat]

Incorrect MO. I even stated how many games they started in with my initial post. Woody with 36 and Wilson with 42. not sure where you came up with your numbers. :lol:

You don't see the flaw in this? You counted only the games he started, but you counted the tackles from all 79 games he played in, regardless of if he started that game or not.

[Northman]

You don't see the flaw in this? You counted only the games he started, but you counted the tackles from all 79 games he played in, regardless of if he started that game or not.

Ooooh, i see what your talking about. Yea, that was my bad. I was only looking at the games he started but the tackles was from everything. Let me look at them again. Ok, going by 79 games for both these are their stats, that was my fubar initially MO, good catch.


79 games (Wesley)

4 FF
236 tackles
8 sacks
4 Int


79 games (Al)

14 sacks
347 tackles
3 FF
3 Int

[MOtorboat]

Like I said, though, it's still not a good comparison because, obviously Wilson had more minutes in those 79 games.

[Lancane]

No ******* way....

???:confused:

[Northman]

Like I said, though, it's still not a good comparison because, obviously Wilson had more minutes in those 79 games.


Yea, but its probably the closest your going to get as far as balancing and equally it out.

[Lancane]

Leadership wise I don't know but ability yes. It's not that I don't like Al Wilson he was very good I just think Woodyard is better overall player.

I have to disagree with this assessment TX, Woodyard is not a natural Mike like Al was or Seau or Urlacher. He's better in coverage and he should be being a former safety - which has helped him find success at the position, but Wilson was a better field general, better tackler and was undoubtedly a game changer. Not to mention that Woodyard has Trevathan and Miller, that is not a bad linebacker corps. who did Wilson have?

[Ravage!!!]

I have to agree with Lancane more on this one. I don't think Al Wilson is getting the respect on just HOW GOOD he was.

But Wilson had Ian Gold and John Mobley

[Lancane]

I have to agree with Lancane more on this one. I don't think Al Wilson is getting the respect on just HOW GOOD he was.

But Wilson had Ian Gold and John Mobley

And I would take Miller and Trevathan over Gold and Mobley.

[Ravage!!!]

And I would take Miller and Trevathan over Gold and Mobley.

I would probably argue Trev vs Mobley. Mobley was pretty DAMNED good. I personally was never a big fan of Ian.

[TXBRONC]

I have to disagree with this assessment TX, Woodyard is not a natural Mike like Al was or Seau or Urlacher. He's better in coverage and he should be being a former safety - which has helped him find success at the position, but Wilson was a better field general, better tackler and was undoubtedly a game changer. Not to mention that Woodyard has Trevathan and Miller, that is not a bad linebacker corps. who did Wilson have?

True Wilson was a natural mike linebacker but I don't think that put him on par with Seau, Seau, or Lewis. He was not a better tackler he whiffed many times because he wouldn't wrap, and he would go for the big hit and whiffing on the tackle. I also disagree he was a better field general I think Woodyard is a little better at getting people into position and making defensive calls. I wouldn't want to live off the difference but I give the edge to Woodyard.

Wilson had Mobley and Gold they weren't slouches either.

[Northman]

True Wilson was a natural mike linebacker but I don't think that put him on par with Seau, Seau, or Lewis. He was not a better tackler he whiffed many times because he wouldn't wrap, and he would go for the big hit and whiffing on the tackle. I also disagree he was a better field general I think Woodyard is a little better at getting people into position and making defensive calls. I wouldn't want to live off the difference but I give the edge to Woodyard.

Wilson had Mobley and Gold they weren't slouches either.

Yea, no way Wilson was even on par with Lewis or Seau. You could argue maybe Urlacher. But i never saw the team get near as fired up with Al than i have with Woody so far and that too me is huge plus with Woodyard. And agreed with Mobley and Gold.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

True Wilson was a natural mike linebacker but I don't think that put him on par with Seau, Seau, or Lewis. He was not a better tackler he whiffed many times because he wouldn't wrap, and he would go for the big hit and whiffing on the tackle. I also disagree he was a better field general I think Woodyard is a little better at getting people into position and making defensive calls. I wouldn't want to live off the difference but I give the edge to Woodyard.

Wilson had Mobley and Gold they weren't slouches either.

I think people forget how good Wilson was because it's been 7 years since he played. I think Woodyard is a good football player, and he's easily the best Mike we've had since Wilson, but saying he's better than Al Wilson is a bit premature. Let's wait until he's had a few pro bowl and all pro nominations like Wilson did.

Wilson never had the benifit of playing behind DT's like we have right now. Do you remember the Browncos? Trevor Pryce was good, but other than that we didn't have mammoths like we do now that could take up space. Al Wilson had to fight through a lot of traffic to do what he did.

Wilson only played 2.5 years with John Mobley due to the injuries that derailed Mobley's career.

[Lancane]

True Wilson was a natural mike linebacker but I don't think that put him on par with Seau, Seau, or Lewis. He was not a better tackler he whiffed many times because he wouldn't wrap, and he would go for the big hit and whiffing on the tackle. I also disagree he was a better field general I think Woodyard is a little better at getting people into position and making defensive calls. I wouldn't want to live off the difference but I give the edge to Woodyard.

Wilson had Mobley and Gold they weren't slouches either.

Didn't put him on par with Seau, Urlacker or Lewis? Despite not being nominated to as many Pro-Bowls as those three or named All-Pro as many times, there were few other middle linebackers during that period on that level. Al Wilson only played for 8 seasons, in that time he was a 5 time Pro-Bowl selection and 2 time All-Pro selection. Now Junior Seau played for 20 seasons, Brian Urlacher for 13 and Ray Lewis for 17...think about it for a minute, Urlacher in 13 seasons went to 8 Pro-Bowls and was an All-Pro selection 5 times, Al Wilson was easily on par to match that, if he'd had played for 20 seasons he would likely have been a 10 time Pro-Bowler and 6 time All-Pro, he would not have surpassed Lewis, no one will likely do that - but he would have likely eclipsed Urlacher and been considered equal to Seau in debates much like Elway and Montana or Elway and Marino were. You're selling him short TX, and I stand by what I said too, he was a better field general, tackler and game changer, that is what I believe.

As to the whole Mobley and Gold argument, I absolutely respect Mobley but he did have issues and Gold was unique but far from elite. Miller is better then both put together and Trevathan has become an above average starter, throw in Woodyard - the current linebacker corps. has more overall talent, but Wilson remains the better Mike...JMO.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I would probably argue Trev vs Mobley. Mobley was pretty DAMNED good. I personally was never a big fan of Ian.

Mobley was awesome, but he was a SAM, not weakside. He played the same position Miller does, albeit in a different way.

Also, don't forget the front 4 Al had in front of him. There were times where he had decent DT's in front of him, but never two mammoth space eaters like Vickerson and Knighton.

[G_Money]

I would probably argue Trev vs Mobley. Mobley was pretty DAMNED good. I personally was never a big fan of Ian.

Damn, people forget quickly how good John Mobley and Al Wilson were. You don't just fall into being first-team All-Pro (both Mobley and Wilson were that). The league is different now. Atwater would probably be a terrible safety in the modern era, and no, Wilson was not a perfect LB.

But seriously - y'all were mocking me just last year for saying we should ditch DJ and start Woodyard. And now Woody is better than a 5-time Pro-Bowler? Where the hell were you people when Woodyard was riding the pine and making special teams plays only? :lol:

Woodyard's best position is the Will, which is the only position Trevathan (our third-best LB) can play. So Wes is playing out of position by playing the middle, as Mobley did by moving to the strong side to get Gold on the field. Sometimes you just gotta do whatcha gotta do. We have two Wills and a Sam, but one of the Wills can play the middle, so we're making him. He also happens to be the captain of the defense and the guy who calls the defensive signals anyway, so that doesn't hurt.

---------------------

Do I want all three guys on the field? Yes. Is Woodyard proving he has the skills to get a Pro Bowl nod someday at two positions? Yes. Because he has the head for the game that DJ never did and uses his speed and instincts to overcome whatever he might lack in bulk and the ability to fight through trash.

But there was a time when Al Wilson was hanging out with Zach Thomas at every Pro Bowl (Al made 5 in only 8 seasons, Zach made 7 in 13 seasons) at the we're-not-Lewis-but-we're-damn-good brunches, and if we had drafted a real Sam and left Mobley where he belonged - and he hadn't blown out his knee and then had that spinal injury that ended his career - maybe more people would remember how good Mobley really was. And the pre-busted-up Wilson was a terror.

Having Von Miller as part of the group means that yes, in a couple of years this might actually be recognized as the greatest LB trio we've ever had (assuming Trevathan continues on an upward path). Hopefully they'll have the ring to go with that recognition.

But Wilson and Mobley weren't chump change, and Gold was at least as good as Trevathan the first time around. I'm just glad that Woodyard is good enough to solidify the unit from the MLB position and make it work. I don't care if he gets a Pro Bowl nod or not, cuz either way I don't want him playing in it. I want him helping us get a ring, as Mobley did.

That's good enough for me.

~G

[G_Money]

Mobley was awesome, but he was a SAM, not weakside. He played the same position Miller does, albeit in a different way.

Also, don't forget the front 4 Al had in front of him. There were times where he had decent DT's in front of him, but never two mammoth space eaters like Vickerson and Knighton.

Mobley was a weak-side backer who had to move because we got Ian Gold and didn't have a Sam, and Gold obviously couldn't play it. Mobley played out of position most of his career (something the Broncos under Shanahan loved to do, like with DJ) to accomodate Gold and get the best 3 LBs we had on the field together.

Woodyard is playing out of position as well. I don't know how to fix that, though, because the performance dropoff between Trevathan and our #4 backer Irving is pretty serious, and Irving has bad MLB instincts for some reason.

Woody has to play the middle. I'm just glad we HAVE those huge dudes in front of him to allow his strengths to shine through, as you said.

~G

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Mobley was a weak-side backer who had to move because we got Ian Gold and didn't have a Sam, and Gold obviously couldn't play it. Mobley played out of position most of his career (something the Broncos under Shanahan loved to do, like with DJ) to accomodate Gold and get the best 3 LBs we had on the field together.

Woodyard is playing out of position as well. I don't know how to fix that, though, because the performance dropoff between Trevathan and our #4 backer Irving is pretty serious, and Irving has bad MLB instincts for some reason.

Woody has to play the middle. I'm just glad we HAVE those huge dudes in front of him to allow his strengths to shine through, as you said.

~G

Yes, I know he was more suited to be weakside. I'm more referring to his time with Al Wilson because the discussion was a comparison to who Wilson played with. Mobley was a stud for sure. I wish he and Wilson could have played together longer.

[G_Money]

... Urlacher in 13 seasons went to 8 Pro-Bowls and was an All-Pro selection 5 times, Al Wilson was easily on par to match that, if he'd had played for 20 seasons he would likely have been a 10 time Pro-Bowler and 6 time All-Pro, he would not have surpassed Lewis, no one will likely do that - but he would have likely eclipsed Urlacher and been considered equal to Seau in debates much like Elway and Montana or Elway and Marino were. You're selling him short TX, and I stand by what I said too, he was a better field general, tackler and game changer, that is what I believe.

Wilson was a better tackler early in his career in the sense that he would hit somebody of any size and they would go DOWN. He had trouble tackling the same way with his busted thumbs and damaged shoulders later in his career. He had to become a head-down tackler because he couldn't lift his head the same way the last couple years. I don't think he had 5 more seasons in him, the way he played. The spinal injury sadly ended his career early, but not 12 seasons early.

Al Wilson was a really, really good MLB. He made Coyer look good as a DC too, for his healthy years anyway. The best thing about having Woodyard out there is getting that kind of leadership on the field, on every play. We'd SORELY missed that.

~G

[Northman]

But seriously - y'all were mocking me just last year for saying we should ditch DJ and start Woodyard. And now Woody is better than a 5-time Pro-Bowler? Where the hell were you people when Woodyard was riding the pine and making special teams plays only? :lol:


~G

I know you aint talking to me G. I was one of DJ's biggest detractors. But i also think Bronco fans are far too biased about Al because while he was good i never saw him as elite whatsoever. Just my observation and viewpoint of course.

[G_Money]

5 Pro Bowls in 8 years is elite, especially out of the Denver media market. Mecklenberg made 6 in 12 years (and had 3 All-Pro nods to Wilson's one) but if Meck was a great player, then so was Wilson. DJ has never made even one Pro-Bowl, and there's a reason for that (as you know, since you had my back in the DJ Wars ;) ) but Wilson was as good as Brooking or Zach Thomas, better IMO than Vilma or the like.

So I guess it depends on your definition of elite. Was he unique like Urlacher or Lewis, who made their specific defenses function at optimum levels? No. But Wilson was at the level below that one - just not for as long as we wanted him.

~G

[Northman]

5 Pro Bowls in 8 years is elite, especially out of the Denver media market. Mecklenberg made 6 in 12 years (and had 3 All-Pro nods to Wilson's one) but if Meck was a great player, then so was Wilson. DJ has never made even one Pro-Bowl, and there's a reason for that (as you know, since you had my back in the DJ Wars ;) ) but Wilson was as good as Brooking or Zach Thomas, better IMO than Vilma or the like.

So I guess it depends on your definition of elite. Was he unique like Urlacher or Lewis, who made their specific defenses function at optimum levels? No. But Wilson was at the level below that one - just not for as long as we wanted him.

~G

I agree with most of what you said aside for saying he is elite, but he was good. Thats not too say Woody is a HOF but so far in his short career i think he has all the tools to surpass Al and i already like his leadership on the field which i felt was one of Al's weaker points.

[Ravage!!!]

Didn't put him on par with Seau, Urlacker or Lewis? Despite not being nominated to as many Pro-Bowls as those three or named All-Pro as many times, there were few other middle linebackers during that period on that level. Al Wilson only played for 8 seasons, in that time he was a 5 time Pro-Bowl selection and 2 time All-Pro selection. Now Junior Seau played for 20 seasons, Brian Urlacher for 13 and Ray Lewis for 17...think about it for a minute, Urlacher in 13 seasons went to 8 Pro-Bowls and was an All-Pro selection 5 times, Al Wilson was easily on par to match that, if he'd had played for 20 seasons he would likely have been a 10 time Pro-Bowler and 6 time All-Pro, he would not have surpassed Lewis, no one will likely do that - but he would have likely eclipsed Urlacher and been considered equal to Seau in debates much like Elway and Montana or Elway and Marino were. You're selling him short TX, and I stand by what I said too, he was a better field general, tackler and game changer, that is what I believe.

Bingo. I'm surprised on how much people have forgotten just how GOOD Al Wilson was. He was a BEAST in the middle. He was smart, the general, and if you ever watched him stomp and chew people's asses off..you woudln't have a doubt about his leadership. WHILE he was playing, he was one of the best MLBs in the NFL and there was absolutely NO questioning that. There were strong cases for his induction into the Ring of Fame, and I believe that would have happened had the suites not occurred.

[aberdien]

Is Big Al a future ring of famer?

[powderaddict]

I love Wes, and he is a very good LB. I love his speed, his smarts, and his leadership.

But he is no Al Wilson. And that's not an insult, very few LB's are.

I get that it's been awhile since Wilson played, but I'm surprised with how people have forgotten what a monster he was. Al Wilson was the man!

[powderaddict]

Is Big Al a future ring of famer?

IMO he should be.

[G_Money]

Is Big Al a future ring of famer?

With the acrimony about how his playing career ended (us sending him back on the field for the last game with that neck injury, then cutting him due to the condition and him being unable to clear a medical to get back on the field for anyone) I'm not sure Al is in the mood to play nice with the Broncos. It's a sad thing.

The best linebackers in Broncos history are whom? Gradishar, Meck, Romo, Al Wilson, Tommy Jackson, Simon Fletcher (it still amazes me that Fletcher NEVER made a Pro Bowl)... anybody else in there? I think Al Wilson should be on the list to get up there. I have little respect for Romo, great a player as he was, and I think Al was better than TJ and had more creds than Fletcher.

But again, I don't think it'll happen for a while if at all, not with how his tenure and career ended. He sued the Broncos' medical staff for malpractice, IIRC. Maybe I'm wrong and he'd be perfectly willing, but it's a long shot IMO.

~G

[Dreadnought]

With the acrimony about how his playing career ended (us sending him back on the field for the last game with that neck injury, then cutting him due to the condition and him being unable to clear a medical to get back on the field for anyone) I'm not sure Al is in the mood to play nice with the Broncos. It's a sad thing.

The best linebackers in Broncos history are whom? Gradishar, Meck, Romo, Al Wilson, Tommy Jackson, Simon Fletcher (it still amazes me that Fletcher NEVER made a Pro Bowl)... anybody else in there? I think Al Wilson should be on the list to get up there. I have little respect for Romo, great a player as he was, and I think Al was better than TJ and had more creds than Fletcher.



~G

Bob Swenson, though he was another whose career was shortened by injuries. He was almost as much a part of that Orange Crush as TJ and Gradishar, just not for as long. One pro Bowl, but he was a little overshadowed by his peers and suffered from having been an UDFA

[broncofaninfla]

With the acrimony about how his playing career ended (us sending him back on the field for the last game with that neck injury, then cutting him due to the condition and him being unable to clear a medical to get back on the field for anyone) I'm not sure Al is in the mood to play nice with the Broncos. It's a sad thing.

The best linebackers in Broncos history are whom? Gradishar, Meck, Romo, Al Wilson, Tommy Jackson, Simon Fletcher (it still amazes me that Fletcher NEVER made a Pro Bowl)... anybody else in there? I think Al Wilson should be on the list to get up there. I have little respect for Romo, great a player as he was, and I think Al was better than TJ and had more creds than Fletcher.

But again, I don't think it'll happen for a while if at all, not with how his tenure and career ended. He sued the Broncos' medical staff for malpractice, IIRC. Maybe I'm wrong and he'd be perfectly willing, but it's a long shot IMO.

~G

I was about to post about Gradishar. He was BY FAR, the best linebacker this team has ever had. TJ, Meck and defintely Fletcher as you mentioned all were great as well but Gradishar was heads above them all. There are a lot of Broncos that desvere the HOF but Gradishar tops the list in my opinion.

As for Woodyard, awesome leader and his return made a huge difference in our defense. I'm hoping that stays teh case for teh second half of the season.

[Joel]

Woodyard's vindicating everything I've ever said about defensive QBs, despite being 10-15 lbs. too light, which is why I'd like to draft a "backup defensive QB" early just like I wanted to do for Al in '05: Because we saw the QB on that side is so critical a quality backup is as vital as the backup QB on the other side. We can patch injuries at Will or Sam, but losing Al Wilson took us from the NFLs best starting 4-3 LB corps to "maybe DJ can run the D? No? Crap...."

Add to that Woodyard only gets away with being so light (and correspondingly fast) because we finally have 3-4 big, strong and QUALITY DTs stopping runs up the gut, Ayers and Phillips stuffing runs to their side and Wolfe and Miller stuffing runs over there. Woodyard works because of half a dozen other guys; unless we can keep all of them, and healthy, he's probably not a long term solution. He's got more big picture vision than DJ, but remember how RBs dragged DJ downfield all the time? Woodyard's nearly 10 lbs. lighter.

So, strange as it may sound in this thread, I'd still draft a Mike would before everything but a guard who can play tackle and (maybe) a safety. I'd like a RB, too, but no one wants them early, so draft the Mike first. I know we recently did that with Irving, but he's been disappointing—but he's good enough to be a backup Sam. Good run stuffers can do that, and coverage guys who tackle well can back up Will (plus Trevathan's not been bad there.) Backing up a QB—on either side—requires a lot of versatile talent, many skill sets and both a head and eye for the game. Hard to find, and usually impossible after round three.


Woodyard is not an intimidator like Al Wilson. Al made people scared to cross him. Woodyard IS the attitude of the defense. He's talking on every play, both to our guys and theirs. He gets everybody in the right places. He's the sideline leader, the motivator. He's out talking to the OFFENSIVE guys when they make good plays, chatting up special teamers...

Von is a great player, but Woodyard is a leader. Von is very much like his idol, Derrick Thomas: probably the most talented guy on the field, but not the guy you follow into battle.

Woodyard has always been a leader. And a good citizen. And a MUCH better player than he was ever given credit for. I'm so thrilled that we picked him up after I spent all draft day screaming that he was still there. He doesn't bring Wilson's bulk to the position of MLB, but with Trevathan a very nice Will (who is also not the sharpest tool in the drawer) it's great to have Wesley's intelligence and aptitude out there. He can hype the guys up or calm em down.

He and Al definitely have that in common. Wesley's been a captain for 4 years now. That's not a coincidence. We could have lost him a couple years ago, but thank God we were able to re-sign him and then DJ threw himself off the Stupid Cliff and freed up a position so we could see how valuable Wes actually is.

My favorite Bronco as well. :salute: And since we've set the defense up perfectly with those HUGE DTs inside to occupy the linemen and free up Woody and Trevathan to fly to the ball, their size shouldn't be an issue.

We have the right LBs for the job playing out there right now. If they can stay healthy the rest of the year we should be in great shape.

~G
This may be a case of finally having good defensive coaches. Much as I love Shanny, he couldn't find his defense with both hands; he's got tons of defensive stars in Washington yet they never seem to do anything. Our team finally has what many people spent the last decade begging for: Huge powerful DTs to stuff runs up the gut, demand doubles and push the pocket, and real defensive QB who can cover, play the run, blitz, read plays, call audibles and generally be the heart of our D.

You make a good point that our DTs strength against the run facilitates Woodyard playing Mike (it was good the last time you made it, too, but worth repeating. ;)) I certainly never expected a 233 lb. Will to work at Mike (one reason I kept pushing for Miller to go there, but you're also right he wouldn't be the leader Woodyard is.) It probably WOULDN'T work without the big uglies stopping runs inside (and Ayers and Phillips stopping off-tackle runs to their side.) We've got a pretty massive front four now, and that gives us the liberty of trading size for speed at LB.


I have to agree with Lancane more on this one. I don't think Al Wilson is getting the respect on just HOW GOOD he was.

But Wilson had Ian Gold and John Mobley
At the end he also got Gold back, plus DJ in his prime, which I (and many others) considered the best 4-3 LB corps in the game. The problem was there wasn't much depth, especially behind Al, which is why I spent the whole '05 offseason screaming for an early Mike pick while everyone said Al made that needless. Then he had a career-ending injury and the whole thing collapsed. All of which is to say: After EIGHT YEARS begging for a quality Mike worthy of the name, I'm very grateful we finally have one and don't really care HOW we did it.

[Ravage!!!]

At the end he also got Gold back, plus DJ in his prime, which I (and many others) considered the best 4-3 LB corps in the game. The problem was there wasn't much depth, especially behind Al, which is why I spent the whole '05 offseason screaming for an early Mike pick while everyone said Al made that needless. Then he had a career-ending injury and the whole thing collapsed. All of which is to say: After EIGHT YEARS begging for a quality Mike worthy of the name, I'm very grateful we finally have one and don't really care HOW we did it.

yes Joel, we've all heard you pat yourself on the back for wanting to draft a MLB. But when Al Wilson was playing at such a HIGH caliber of play, to simply use draft picks on "quality MLB" to sit behind a guy that could have been anchoring the defense for another 5 years, wasn't on a priority list, and certainly didn't make sense. A team won't use a high draft pick on a RB when you have Terrell Davis as the starter, but you can HOPE to find a late round pick or an UDFA to fill in as back-up when you have that quality at the position. Same thing with the MLB. You normally won't get high quality at that position without using a high draft pick on them, which you have said you were "screaming" for. NO ONE uses high draft picks to be a back-up to a a guy that is an all-pro. Injuries can't be predicted, and you can't use your picks and roster spots filling in with "maybes." Surely you can see that.

[Joel]

yes Joel, we've all heard you pat yourself on the back for wanting to draft a MLB. But when Al Wilson was playing at such a HIGH caliber of play, to simply use draft picks on "quality MLB" to sit behind a guy that could have been anchoring the defense for another 5 years, wasn't on a priority list, and certainly didn't make sense. A team won't use a high draft pick on a RB when you have Terrell Davis as the starter, but you can HOPE to find a late round pick or an UDFA to fill in as back-up when you have that quality at the position. Same thing with the MLB. You normally won't get high quality at that position without using a high draft pick on them, which you have said you were "screaming" for. NO ONE uses high draft picks to be a back-up to a a guy that is an all-pro. Injuries can't be predicted, and you can't use your picks and roster spots filling in with "maybes." Surely you can see that.
Would you spend a high draft pick on someone to backup Petyon Manning? "Defensive QB" isn't just a phrase, it's a true comparison, across the board, so it's more like drafting Osweiler than drafting Ball. We can shuffle guys at many positions on both sides of the ball, but the QBs are too critical and must do too many things well to just play "next man up" and hope he's good enough, because he probably won't be.

Regardless, it's been eight years and I'm ALWAYS worried about SOMETHING (usually multiple things,) so lemme have 5 seconds to enjoy FINALLY having a Mike and multiple true NTs. :tongue:

[Buff]

At least we finally found some DTs to complement his style. He had a tendency to get run over back in the day when we still had undersized d-linemen.

I think the love fest has gone overboard personally, but he is clearly our best MLB currently, and light years better than Joe Mays was during the first half of last season.

[Ravage!!!]

Would you spend a high draft pick on someone to backup Petyon Manning?

Not just 8 years into his career, I wouldn't. Now that you are talking 15 yrs in, that's a different scenario. Same with Al Wilson.

[G_Money]

Would you spend a high draft pick on someone to backup Petyon Manning? "Defensive QB" isn't just a phrase, it's a true comparison, across the board, so it's more like drafting Osweiler than drafting Ball. We can shuffle guys at many positions on both sides of the ball, but the QBs are too critical and must do too many things well to just play "next man up" and hope he's good enough, because he probably won't be.

Regardless, it's been eight years and I'm ALWAYS worried about SOMETHING (usually multiple things,) so lemme have 5 seconds to enjoy FINALLY having a Mike and multiple true NTs. :tongue:

I don't have any problem getting another LB in the draft - nothing says Woodyard re-signs here anyway, so we might HAVE to - and I agree, I want it to be a smart backer not just a talented one.

But I'm not drafting a backup in the first or anything. There are guys in a similar vein to how Woodyard plays who should be available in the late rounds. For instance, James Morris from Iowa seems criminally under-rated to me. As a backup LB you want a good special teamer (Woodyard was the special teams captain first, remember), a good tackler, and a smart player. We can add one, and I'd like to. It's not like Paris Lenon and Steven Johnson are the best we wanna be able to field if Woodyard hurts his neck again.

The best thing about the "QB of the defense" moniker, though, is that anybody can step up and be that QB. If Al Wilson went down, John Lynch was available to fill the role. Our problem was that we lost Wilson after '06 and '07 was Lynch's last year. It doesn't have to be a MLB, and certainly if Woodyard was playing the Will he'd still be the defensive QB.

We could use more LB depth, because what used to be our depth is now starting and doing better than the guys they replaced.

But if Nacho wants to be the backup defensive QB and can step up, or Harris or whomever, I'm cool with that.

~G

[Ziggy]

If Woody leaves via free agency, we don't necessarily have to draft a replacement at MLB. If Del Rio stays, Trevathan may slide over next year and the Broncos could bring in another WLB. I could see the Broncos signing the best available MLB or WLB in free agency or the draft and putting Trevathan in the other spot. The whole reason Woody was moved to MLB this season was to get the best 3 linebackers on the field at the same time. I don't see that mentality changing.

[G_Money]

Trevathan and Woodyard are both good Wills (Woodyard is better, though Danny has really stepped it up in pass-coverage). Trevathan does not have the play-diagnosing skills to succeed at Mike, IMO, and looks even lighter than Woodyard. Wes also had more experience playing inside in college, while Trevathan played outside pretty exclusively.

I would NOT be in favor of trying Trevathan at Mike. That'd be like putting Ian Gold there. Let's not do that. The Woodyards and Mobleys of the world can do special things. If Woodyard wanders off for more money elsewhere, let's not take Trevathan out of his place of impact and ask him to do special things in a brand new position.

~G

[iLands]

I love Wood.

[TXBRONC]

I think people forget how good Wilson was because it's been 7 years since he played. I think Woodyard is a good football player, and he's easily the best Mike we've had since Wilson, but saying he's better than Al Wilson is a bit premature. Let's wait until he's had a few pro bowl and all pro nominations like Wilson did.

Wilson never had the benifit of playing behind DT's like we have right now. Do you remember the Browncos? Trevor Pryce was good, but other than that we didn't have mammoths like we do now that could take up space. Al Wilson had to fight through a lot of traffic to do what he did.

Wilson only played 2.5 years with John Mobley due to the injuries that derailed Mobley's career.

I have not forgotten Al Wilson's career and I still think Woodyard is better for the reason I stated earlier. I liked Wilson when played but he isn't the best mike linebacker Denver has ever had.

[Ziggy]

Trevathan and Woodyard are both good Wills (Woodyard is better, though Danny has really stepped it up in pass-coverage). Trevathan does not have the play-diagnosing skills to succeed at Mike, IMO, and looks even lighter than Woodyard. Wes also had more experience playing inside in college, while Trevathan played outside pretty exclusively.

I would NOT be in favor of trying Trevathan at Mike. That'd be like putting Ian Gold there. Let's not do that. The Woodyards and Mobleys of the world can do special things. If Woodyard wanders off for more money elsewhere, let's not take Trevathan out of his place of impact and ask him to do special things in a brand new position.

~G

Trevathan is bigger than Woody. It was one of the points discussed with Woody on the Fan when they interviewed him about switching to the Mike at the beginning of the year. Trevathan is also a ball hound. His play diagnosing skills are excellent, despite only being in his sophomore season with the Broncos. His best comparison is Wesley Woodyard, although he's slightly bigger and may have a better nose for the ball.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I have not forgotten Al Wilson's career and I still think Woodyard is better for the reason I stated earlier. I liked Wilson when played but he isn't the best mike linebacker Denver has ever had.

I forgive you. :D

[SR]

I have not forgotten Al Wilson's career and I still think Woodyard is better for the reason I stated earlier. I liked Wilson when played but he isn't the best mike linebacker Denver has ever had.

Neither is Woody...

[turftoad]

I have not forgotten Al Wilson's career and I still think Woodyard is better for the reason I stated earlier. I liked Wilson when played but he isn't the best mike linebacker Denver has ever had.

I agree
They were different era's also. The game changes through the years.

[Lancane]

I have not forgotten Al Wilson's career and I still think Woodyard is better for the reason I stated earlier. I liked Wilson when played but he isn't the best mike linebacker Denver has ever had.

No, that honor belongs to Randy Gradishar followed by Karl Mecklenberg, but he is better then Joe Rizzo, David Wyman, Mario Haggan, Rick Dennison, Mark Munford, DJ Williams, Rick Hunley, Larry Evans, Glenn Cadrez, Steve Busick, Allen Aldridge or Joe Mays. And it could be argued that he comparable to Karl Mecklenberg in a lot of ways, whereas Woodyard is more like Rick Dennison or Joe Rizzo.

According to your own argument, Woodyard has been apart of three regimes that all overlooked his so-called perennial All-Pro ability over the course of six seasons, instead of plugging him in to some weak corps. that needed a boost? It took him five seasons to even get the nod to start at the Will position, and now he's being compared to inarguably one of the three all-time great Broncos to have played the position?

Not trying to sound harsh bro, but there is no proof that Woodyard is in such a class or will be. Woodyard has long been a fan favorite, there is no denying that fact, but I've heard this before about Van Pelt being the next great quarterback, Larsen the next great Denver linebacker, Hillis being the next Anderson, Bell being the next Davis and on and on. How about this, how about he earn his accolades and then compare him to those of such stature, because right now his accolades are about next to nil...just an idea.

[smith49]

I know we don't really do the whole "adopted bronco" thing anymore. However, I must say that I did adopt Woodyard several years ago because I always thought he was going to develop into a stud for this team. I'm so very pleased that he has become the player and person a hoped he would.

I obviously didn't know how he would turn out. I'm just very very impressed with him on and off the field. I'm not going to do the Al vs Wesley argument because I love them both. Al is gone now though, and I couldn't be more pleased with who is playing MLB for us now. Just effing awesome.

BTW
I have two (Chinese) Von jerseys and one champ. I can guarantee that the next five I but will be Woodyard in various colors. I'm just waiting for the Chinese to get the collars corrected.

[Dreadnought]

No, that honor belongs to Randy Gradishar followed by Karl Mecklenberg, but he is better then Joe Rizzo, David Wyman, Mario Haggan, Rick Dennison, Mark Munford, DJ Williams, Rick Hunley, Larry Evans, Glenn Cadrez, Steve Busick, Allen Aldridge or Joe Mays. And it could be argued that he comparable to Karl Mecklenberg in a lot of ways, whereas Woodyard is more like Rick Dennison or Joe Rizzo.

According to your own argument, Woodyard has been apart of three regimes that all overlooked his so-called perennial All-Pro ability over the course of six seasons, instead of plugging him in to some weak corps. that needed a boost? It took him five seasons to even get the nod to start at the Will position, and now he's being compared to inarguably one of the three all-time great Broncos to have played the position?

Not trying to sound harsh bro, but there is no proof that Woodyard is in such a class or will be. Woodyard has long been a fan favorite, there is no denying that fact, but I've heard this before about Van Pelt being the next great quarterback, Larsen the next great Denver linebacker, Hillis being the next Anderson, Bell being the next Davis and on and on. How about this, how about he earn his accolades and then compare him to those of such stature, because right now his accolades are about next to nil...just an idea.

He has been earning the accolades, Lancane. Just because Josh Mcdaniels didn't fully grasp the value of a guy doesn't mean he wasn't excellent notwithstanding. God only knows this is true...remember Lamont Jordan and Laurence Maroney? He had almost no eye for talent at all.

[Ziggy]

He has been earning the accolades, Lancane. Just because Josh Mcdaniels didn't fully grasp the value of a guy doesn't mean he wasn't excellent notwithstanding. God only knows this is true...remember Lamont Jordan and Laurence Maroney? He had almost no eye for talent at all.

Robert Quinn, Alphonso Smith, Darcel McBath, Richard Quinn......all 2nd rounders. Saying he has no eye for talent is being generous.

[TXBRONC]

I forgive you. :D

I don't need forgiveness on this one. Randy Gradishar is best MLB/ILB that Denver has had.

[TXBRONC]

Neither is Woody...

I didn't say he was. Randy Gradishar holds that honor.

[Dapper Dan]

I love Wood.

No one made an immature sex joke. I'm so disappointed in you guys right now. What a bunch of adults..

Where's ole bronconut when you need him?

[Ravage!!!]

Well.. I think there needs to be an apology for saying Woodyard is better than Wilson. To me, that is just Zam talk.

[Lancane]

He has been earning the accolades, Lancane. Just because Josh Mcdaniels didn't fully grasp the value of a guy doesn't mean he wasn't excellent notwithstanding. God only knows this is true...remember Lamont Jordan and Laurence Maroney? He had almost no eye for talent at all.

Granted, McDaniels wasn't the most astounding evaluator of talent, but Shanahan and Fox are pretty good at it, not great but better then some. Yet, it wasn't until Fox's second season, Woodyard's fifth that he got the nod to start and that was at the Will position.

What accolades? US Today's 2012 All-Joe Team (not recognized by the NFL), his Captaincy? or winning the Darrent William's Good Guy Award or being nominated twice for the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award? Both of which do not reflect a player's feats on the football field. That's not comparable to being a 5 time Pro-Bowler or 2 time All-Pro.

Like I said, I really like Woodyard, and I would like to see him remain a Bronco - but he is no Al Wilson.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't need forgiveness on this one. Randy Gradishar is best MLB/ILB that Denver has had.

I have never debated that. Don't get me wrong, Woody is my fsvorite player right now, but I maintain that he has a way to go before he's even in the same conversation with Al Wilson. I'd like to see him play with Alvin McKinnley in front of him.

[Dapper Dan]

This is a different defense. This is a different generation. I don't know if Woodyard is Wilson. But we haven't had a good MLB like Woodyard since Al Wilson. I like them both. I'm glad they both have worn the Broncos uniform.

[Northman]

He has been earning the accolades, Lancane. Just because Josh Mcdaniels didn't fully grasp the value of a guy doesn't mean he wasn't excellent notwithstanding. God only knows this is true...remember Lamont Jordan and Laurence Maroney? He had almost no eye for talent at all.

Yea, no shit. :lol:

[Northman]

Well.. I think there needs to be an apology for saying Woodyard is better than Wilson. To me, that is just Zam talk.

**** that. ;)

[Ravage!!!]

**** that. ;)

ZAM TALK I SAY!!!! :rant: ....

[claymore]

Well.. I think there needs to be an apology for saying Woodyard is better than Wilson. To me, that is just Zam talk.

Al Wilson meant way more to this team than most realize. Him leaving was the true downfall of this team, not the drafting of Culer, or Plummer quitting. He was our leader.

[tubby]

Al Wilson meant way more to this team than most realize. Him leaving was the true downfall of this team, not the drafting of Culer, or Plummer quitting. He was our leader.

Garard Warren's fat ass....SMH

[claymore]

Garard Warren's fat ass....SMH

Was he Al WIlsons "Biran Greise"?

[tubby]

http://www.koollyrics.com/koollyrics/platform/framework/showImage.php?img_id=blobs000000000023475

[tubby]

http://images.athlonsports.com/d/2701-2/Al-Wilson_300.jpg

[tubby]

Was he Al WIlsons "Biran Greise"?

Warren nailed him and effed up his neck......all on a special teams fumble by Darrent Williams!

[claymore]

Warren nailed him and effed up his neck......all on a special teams fumble by Darrent Williams!
Another turnover ruined a Bronco Great. SMH

[tubby]

Another turnover ruined a Bronco Great. SMH

It was Cutler's first start, so I still blame that Dbag.... :D he threw 2 ugly picks. I have no idea why Al Wilson way playing special teams.

I was at the game claymore. Very tough day for a random loser like myself. Pretty sure my bride to a trip down the stairs that night.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_4767705

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2006-13-sea-den

[claymore]

It was Cutler's first start, so I still blame that Dbag.... :D he threw 2 ugly picks. I have no idea why Al Wilson way playing special teams.

I was at the game claymore. Very tough day for a random loser like myself. Pretty sure my bride to a trip down the stairs that night.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_4767705

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2006-13-sea-den

Im positive I watched the game, just dont remember it. Wilson meant alot to me. It was tough after he left/retired listening to folks diminish his importance. I remember arguing that Champ cant be the leader cause it just isnt in him.

[Ravage!!!]

Al Wilson was an absolutely BEAST,and a player that other teams knew. Other FANS knew. That says a lot about a MLB when the other fans know your name.

[Northman]

Al Wilson was an absolutely BEAST,and a player that other teams knew. Other FANS knew. That says a lot about a MLB when the other fans know your name.

Lmao, i know the names of a lot of players on other teams. Doesnt make them great. Not trying to slam Al but that is a bad example mate.

[Ravage!!!]

Lmao, i know the names of a lot of players on other teams. Doesnt make them great. Not trying to slam Al but that is a bad example mate.

No its not. I said the name of a MLB on another team. People on this forum, aren't your "casual" fans, and I bet very few could name very many MLBs on other teams without looking up the rosters. There are only a few in the NFL that people know. Al Wilson was special.

[claymore]

No its not. I said the name of a MLB on another team. People on this forum, aren't your "casual" fans, and I bet very few could name very many MLBs on other teams without looking up the rosters. There are only a few in the NFL that people know. Al Wilson was special.

His leadership is what made him special. He was a good/great MLB, but his leadership is what we truly missed IMO. Remember when he would take the entire defense to dinner every week/.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Im positive I watched the game, just dont remember it. Wilson meant alot to me. It was tough after he left/retired listening to folks diminish his importance. I remember arguing that Champ cant be the leader cause it just isnt in him.

I remember it quite well. Al was on the ground fighting for a loose ball and Gerrard Warren ran and dove on the pile, spearing Al in the back of the head. One 320 missle to the back of the head would be hard to recover from.

[claymore]

I remember it quite well. Al was on the ground fighting for a loose ball and Gerrard Warren ran and dove on the pile, spearing Al in the back of the head. One 320 missle to the back of the head would be hard to recover from.

Now I hate Warren.

[GEM]

It was Cutler's first start, so I still blame that Dbag.... :D he threw 2 ugly picks. I have no idea why Al Wilson way playing special teams.

I was at the game claymore. Very tough day for a random loser like myself. Pretty sure my bride to a trip down the stairs that night.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_4767705

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2006-13-sea-den

Same game Elam hurt his leg running a fake. What a bad game.

[Ravage!!!]

I remember being in St. Louis watching the Broncos (and screaming at Plummer for throwing so many INTs)... and watching Al Wilson come over to about midway to the sideline talking with one of the coaches during a timeout. We called time out while St. Louis was on our one, and Al was LIVID. He called Time out because he didn't get the right defensive call in, or didn't get it in time, and he was just STOMPING mad as he was talking (literally stomping). I just remember thinking "man that is one BIG angry man." Showed me that he didn't like wasting time-outs and not getting the right callls in on time on such important defensive plays. He was THE leader on the field, and didn't take that kind of miscommunication from anyone.