When Champ comes back he should switch positons!

[CrazyHorse]

Not to safety but to Nickel Corner.:D

[Ziggy]

Let the bye week bad threads begin!

[DenBronx]

He would be better at nickle then safety and the transition alot easier. Harris and DRC on the edges because they are a little better at ballhawking down the field. Turnovers change games most of the time.

Now that Miller is back and we are creating pressure on the QB these DBs are going to get more and more INTs.

[GEM]

I don't think we need to have the conversation, I don't think champ will be back this season.

[SR]

If Champ ends this year on IR like many expect him to, I would expect him to hang it up. If that's the case, I would rather let DRC take over the #1 CB slot, keep Harris at Nickey where he belongs, and bring in another #2 CB.

[Zweems56]

If Champ ends this year on IR like many expect him to, I would expect him to hang it up. If that's the case, I would rather let DRC take over the #1 CB slot, keep Harris at Nickey where he belongs, and bring in another #2 CB.

I'm not sure Harris is going to be content playing Nickel for the rest of his career. That will probably force him off the team. He's a good dude, and his temperament is awesome, but he's a starting corner in this league.

[TXBRONC]

I don't see a reason to switch him to nickle corner and I think GEM could be right in that Champ might be done for the season.

[Broncolingus]

I don't think we need to have the conversation, I don't think champ will be back this season.

...or maybe at all...

[GEM]

I think the second injury looked worse than the first.With his cap hit, slow down by way of natural age and a foot on top of it, we may have seen the last of our Guy, champ. Love him, but defense has looked better with him not on the field, never ever thought I would say that.

[CoachChaz]

If Champ ends this year on IR like many expect him to, I would expect him to hang it up. If that's the case, I would rather let DRC take over the #1 CB slot, keep Harris at Nickey where he belongs, and bring in another #2 CB.

I dont think we have to. If we are able to re-sign DRC, I'm ok with Webster in the #2 spot. He has impressed me this year.


I'm not sure Harris is going to be content playing Nickel for the rest of his career. That will probably force him off the team. He's a good dude, and his temperament is awesome, but he's a starting corner in this league.

I disagree. I think Harris excels more in the slot than he does outside and I think he would certainly be content in that role

[Northman]

If Champ ends this year on IR like many expect him to, I would expect him to hang it up. If that's the case, I would rather let DRC take over the #1 CB slot, keep Harris at Nickey where he belongs, and bring in another #2 CB.

Agreed. I think he is done one way or the other.

[claymore]

I doubt Champ walks away. I think he takes the paycut, comes back and contributes. Alot of Iconic/Great players have a hard time leaving the game behind. There is plenty of precidence on DB's switching positions and coming back for pennies on the dollar.

[Dzone]

Maybe he will be like Darrell Green and play till he is 42.

[Ravage!!!]

I think we should ALLLL promise to NEVER use the word "Nickey" in reference to the nickle position.

[BroncoNut]

ummmm... before you all start freaking out about what I am going to say, just please hear me out. I was wondering what happended to Champ. why he wasn't out there. I dont' remember him getting hurt. what was it again?

[NightTrainLayne]

ummmm... before you all start freaking out about what I am going to say, just please hear me out. I was wondering what happended to Champ. why he wasn't out there. I dont' remember him getting hurt. what was it again?

Yes, Champ reinjured his foot last week during the game at Indianapolis.

[Lancane]

I don't think we need to have the conversation, I don't think champ will be back this season.

I don't think he'll be back in a Broncos' uniform after this. I knew it was coming, I just don't see the front office paying him near 10 million for the lack of production and continuous issues that are starting to plague him. I am sure the team will be hoping he retires, but if not then I see them cutting ties with Bailey in the end, either way.

[Joel]

I'm not sure Harris is going to be content playing Nickel for the rest of his career. That will probably force him off the team. He's a good dude, and his temperament is awesome, but he's a starting corner in this league.
Domonique Foxworth all over again: He's good enough to be a #1/2, so he'll either do it in Denver or elsewhere. This is what I've been dreading ever since the kid started making plays two years ago, because I remember making the argument we should groom Foxworth as Champs successor against the day Champ slowed so much his experience, anticipation, reflexes and vision were better suited to centerfield. Most of those assets would be wasted in nickel coverage, especially in one-on-one matchups. I'd rather have Harris and DRC, Webster at NB, Carter at DB, Champ at FS and Ihenacho at SS than put Champ at NB, Webster at DB and keep Moore next to Ihenacho. Champ Bailey's let a Hail Mary go 5 yards over his head and 10 behind him in his life. We traded Foxworth for a 7th rounder Shannys last year, then he blew out his knee and retired two years later; I'd prefer that not happen again. Harris is legit, and whether Champ retires next year or later, we need to fill that spot, soon.

[Ravage!!!]

Foxworth sucked.

[G_Money]

Webster has been great, especially for a rookie. He's best in a press though, it looks like, and I'm not sure if he has the footwork to be as good at nickel as he is in straight-line press coverage on the outside.

I'm willing to find out. He and Harris are two keepers. I think Harris is better as a nickel, and he's an RFA next year so we should be able to keep him. In the modern era of football your nickel can be your #2 anyway, with all the slot threats that make a nice chunk of change. With Webster being cheap for the next three seasons, we can afford to slide Harris an extra couple of bucks if necessary to keep him.

Carter needs to be replaced. I saw Jammer out there at the end of the game at corner, but was that simply because Carter was inactive? We might be drafting another corner anyway, but I agree with Coach, I dunno that we need to pay for a #2. We've got two of those. Webster and Harris are good for me, I just want extra depth.

And we HAVE to re-sign DRC at this point, that guy (with his head in the game like it is now) is crazy good. Which means Champ either has to go or takes a huge pay cut (I'm assuming the former, with his ripped up foot). Assuming Nacho is okay, though, I feel better about our secondary than I have in a long time. Which is kinda funny with us being last in the league against the pass, but a lot of that is QB pressure and the need to throw to catch up. We should have the QB pressure thing fixed now, with Von back, which should allow our ball-hawks to, well, hawk.

We're right on schedule, just need the remaining Non-Champ DBs to stay healthy.

~G

[chazoe60]

I'm not sure Harris is going to be content playing Nickel for the rest of his career. That will probably force him off the team. He's a good dude, and his temperament is awesome, but he's a starting corner in this league.
I see Harris as our #2 who slides inside to the traditional nickel spot when we go nickel. He definitely has a knack for covering slot guys and he's like an extra safety in the box because of his tackling skills but there's also no reason to ever have him off the field.

[Lancane]

Webster has been great, especially for a rookie. He's best in a press though, it looks like, and I'm not sure if he has the footwork to be as good at nickel as he is in straight-line press coverage on the outside.

I'm willing to find out. He and Harris are two keepers. I think Harris is better as a nickel, and he's an RFA next year so we should be able to keep him. In the modern era of football your nickel can be your #2 anyway, with all the slot threats that make a nice chunk of change. With Webster being cheap for the next three seasons, we can afford to slide Harris an extra couple of bucks if necessary to keep him.

Carter needs to be replaced. I saw Jammer out there at the end of the game at corner, but was that simply because Carter was inactive? We might be drafting another corner anyway, but I agree with Coach, I dunno that we need to pay for a #2. We've got two of those. Webster and Harris are good for me, I just want extra depth.

And we HAVE to re-sign DRC at this point, that guy (with his head in the game like it is now) is crazy good. Which means Champ either has to go or takes a huge pay cut (I'm assuming the former, with his ripped up foot). Assuming Nacho is okay, though, I feel better about our secondary than I have in a long time. Which is kinda funny with us being last in the league against the pass, but a lot of that is QB pressure and the need to throw to catch up. We should have the QB pressure thing fixed now, with Von back, which should allow our ball-hawks to, well, hawk.

We're right on schedule, just need the remaining Non-Champ DBs to stay healthy.

~G

As I stated above G, I truly believe this is Bailey's final hurrah with the Broncos, either he'll decide to go or the team finally makes the decision to part ways. But as you said, DRC has been a beast for the Broncos and in that has earned a long-term deal more befitting his abilities. Harris and Carter are both RFA after the season, I believe both will be re-signed or the Broncos will get a sufficient draft pick for one or the other and then the Broncos have Webster who has had some moments. We'll know after the season which way the team will go on those three, but Rodgers-Cromartie should be the priority re-signing for the organization, of course Denver could place the franchise tag on DRC and be justified in doing so till a deal is hammered out. Safety could end up being the more pressing concern, Ihenacho and Adams are both free agents after the season and Rahim Moore is a free agent the following off-season, and while I like Bruton, neither he nor Bolden have really stepped up enough to be considered capable replacements. Denver could be walking into the draft needing to focus heavily on both safety positions if they don't retain Ihenacho.

[G_Money]

Safety could end up being the more pressing concern, Ihenacho and Adams are both free agents after the season and Rahim Moore is a free agent the following off-season, and while I like Bruton, neither he nor Bolden have really stepped up enough to be considered capable replacements. Denver could be walking into the draft needing to focus heavily on both safety positions if they don't retain Ihenacho.

Don't worry about Nacho - he's not a "real" free agent, he's an exclusive rights FA since he's only been in the league 2 years. Here's the Football 101 definition (http://football.calsci.com/FreeAgency.html) of his status:


An Exclusive-Rights Free Agent is an NFL player who is not under contract, but has only two years of NFL experience. If his former club makes him an offer at the three year veteran minimum salary, then that's it, he has to take it or leave the NFL. These guys have no right to negotiate with other teams. They are "free" only in the sense that they're free to quit.

So don't sweat it. He'll be here, and be relatively cheap. I agree, we'll need a safety to replace Mike Adams (or re-sign Adams as a backup) but it's not like Mike is breaking the bank with his current 2 mil a year either. With our track record of recent DBs, though, I'm not worried if we go to the draft to fill that need. Heck, a late-round or FA flier on a guy like Oregon's Patterson as a free-safety type would be fine with me. He's smallish, but the guy just makes plays. "Just making plays" is the signature of all our good DBs, isn't it?

I'm not too worried about Safety just yet - not as long as Nacho's healthy and "The Dream" keeps his head in the game.

~G

[LTC Pain]

Webster has been great, especially for a rookie. He's best in a press though, it looks like, and I'm not sure if he has the footwork to be as good at nickel as he is in straight-line press coverage on the outside.

I'm willing to find out. He and Harris are two keepers. I think Harris is better as a nickel, and he's an RFA next year so we should be able to keep him. In the modern era of football your nickel can be your #2 anyway, with all the slot threats that make a nice chunk of change. With Webster being cheap for the next three seasons, we can afford to slide Harris an extra couple of bucks if necessary to keep him.

Carter needs to be replaced. I saw Jammer out there at the end of the game at corner, but was that simply because Carter was inactive? We might be drafting another corner anyway, but I agree with Coach, I dunno that we need to pay for a #2. We've got two of those. Webster and Harris are good for me, I just want extra depth.

And we HAVE to re-sign DRC at this point, that guy (with his head in the game like it is now) is crazy good. Which means Champ either has to go or takes a huge pay cut (I'm assuming the former, with his ripped up foot). Assuming Nacho is okay, though, I feel better about our secondary than I have in a long time. Which is kinda funny with us being last in the league against the pass, but a lot of that is QB pressure and the need to throw to catch up. We should have the QB pressure thing fixed now, with Von back, which should allow our ball-hawks to, well, hawk.

We're right on schedule, just need the remaining Non-Champ DBs to stay healthy.

~G

Agree with G_Money 100% The CB depth chart going into Free Agency/2014 Draft is DRC, Harris and Webster with remaining slots to be filled. Champ is gone (I think) and Bolden, Carter and Jammer all suck. I hope #7 makes the hard choice and makes for an amicable departure with Champ. So, I think we sign a FA CB and draft a CB.

[G_Money]

I actually had high hopes for Bolden, but he's never made it back from the knee injury to be a good corner. He's nominally a safety, but really we're just using him on special teams (where he's pretty good, but not Bruton good). I'm still hopeful he can be a useful DB, but it doesn't look like he'll be a starting one.

~G

[jhns]

If you are worried about Champ losing a step, moving to nickle corner is a terrible idea. Nickle corners have to cover quicker receivers and much more of the field. If you are downgrading him, the #2 outside corner would actually make sense.

[Joel]

Foxworth sucked.
He made plays and won games for us, even when it left him puking his guts out on the sideline after the gun. I always thought him a more reliable CB (sure tackler, not afraid of RBs, like Champ and Harris) than D-Will, but he didn't make the highlight reel plays, so he stayed in nickel until he proved himself good enough to start, then went to a team that let him when we wouldn't.

I can deal with Carter at dime because sometimes he's good and sometimes not, but won't get beaten by #4 WRs or RBs very often. That's not to say I wouldn't prefer Adams, but if I had my druthers I'd start him as a true FS (even though he's listed at SS) next to Ihenacho and let Moore "dream" about re-earning a starting job.

I'll wait and see what Champ says, and what response the team gives (if any is required.) If DRC maintains his focus, it just wouldn't make sense to let a 28 year old CB like that go to keep a visibly slowing 36 year old one, but I'm sure Champ knows that, too. IF he returns (and I think that's more likely if we don't win a title than if we do) he'll probably take a pay cut and stick in Denver; it gives him another shot at a title and I doubt anyone will outbid us for his services at this stage. Then the question becomes where to put him:

At CB we'd have tons of depth, better #1/2 CBs and in the slot his speed would be a liability, while his wealth of experience, play recognition, anticipation, run-stuffing and nose for the ball would be mostly wasted.
At safety we'll have far less depth (basically none if Adams goes by the bye; he'll be 33 next March) and all the things Champ does best are all the things most valuable in a FS.

Again, we'll wait and see what he decides; particularly if he finally gets a Ring he may say, "thanks for the memories," and make the decision for us (in which case I'd LOVE him as a secondary coach.)

CB: DRC, Harris, Webster, Carter; FS: Champ SS: Ihenacho; Backups: Adams/Moore We could still do with drafting a backup CB to develop, and maybe a safety since Champ and Moore will both be in their mid-thirties at a speed posiiton, but I still like that better than CB: DRC/Harris/Champ, Webster; FS: Moore; SS: Ihenacho; Backups: Adams/Carter. Safety plays to Champs strength; nickel, to his weaknesses.

[CrazyHorse]

I doubt Champ walks away. I think he takes the paycut, comes back and contributes. Alot of Iconic/Great players have a hard time leaving the game behind. There is plenty of precidence on DB's switching positions and coming back for pennies on the dollar.

I feel the same way. I hope he takes a pay cut and stays. I think at this point in his career he'd be more valuable playing the slot or nickel. Harris has the talent to be #2.

[Dzone]

does he have a lisfranc?

[DenBronx]

does he have a lis franc?

I think so and they are being pretty quiet about it. It ended Cladys season. The pain may go away but as soon as Champ starts actually playing and putting real pressure on it then it might aggravate it again.....then back to square one. Even if he does come back he wont be the same player.

The coaches should just do this. Put Champ on some type of 6 week IR and see how he is if we go deep in the playoffs. Not even sure if you can short term IR someone after week 6.

With the way Elway negotiates contracts, I do see him wanting to do something about that 10 million.

[GEM]

He has the same injury as clady, just much milder. But very easy to reaggravate.

[DenBronx]

And for Gods sakes people, QUIT SAYING CHRIS HARRIS IS A BETTER NICKLE CORNER!!!!!!!!!! HE'S THE BEST CORNER WE HAVE! PERIOD! Whether that is on #1s, #2s or even nickle.


If Champ hangs them up, restructures or is dealt to someone then Harris will cover the #1s and sometimes DRC will cover the #1s. It will depend on matchups and imo, you cant go wrong with either guy. Harris is just a little better in coverage.


So if Kayvon Webster wants to start. He better start practicing at the nickle.

[G_Money]

If Kayvon is 90% of Harris on the edge but 70% of him in the slot, then Harris plays the slot even if he's "the better corner" - certainly against teams with dangerous slot guys.

Not saying those are my numbers, but you play the guys in the roles that make the whole D better.

What I find remarkable about Harris is his ability to adapt to what's needed even without blazing speed or size. His technique's right. Play the #2? No problem. Match up against the opponent's #1? Not an issue. Play the speed guy? Sure. The route runner? You bet. Slide inside? Absolutely. Take on the TE? Yup.

If he had to move to safety for us for a coupla games he could do that too. His dogged tenacity apparently plays anywhere, and he doesn't care how big or fast the other guy is. He's not the most physically talented guy, but he plays like an old-school corner, and I love that in a young guy. The way he approaches the game reminds me of Crockett, and I loved the hell outta that guy. Nobody's allowed to play that physically anymore (unless you're playing against the Broncos or in the Seattle secondary) but Harris has that kind of want-to against anybody.

Really hungry corner. I expect to keep him for a long time.

~G

[DenBronx]

I doubt Champ walks away. I think he takes the paycut, comes back and contributes. Alot of Iconic/Great players have a hard time leaving the game behind. There is plenty of precidence on DB's switching positions and coming back for pennies on the dollar.


I feel the same way. I hope he takes a pay cut and stays. I think at this point in his career he'd be more valuable playing the slot or nickel. Harris has the talent to be #2.



I don't think he walks away either. He deserves a ring and I really want him to have one.....I hope he and the Broncos make the best decisions in the offseason.

[DenBronx]

If Kayvon is 90% of Harris on the edge but 70% of him in the slot, then Harris plays the slot even if he's "the better corner" - certainly against teams with dangerous slot guys.

Not saying those are my numbers, but you play the guys in the roles that make the whole D better.

What I find remarkable about Harris is his ability to adapt to what's needed even without blazing speed or size. His technique's right. Play the #2? No problem. Match up against the opponent's #1? Not an issue. Play the speed guy? Sure. The route runner? You bet. Slide inside? Absolutely. Take on the TE? Yup.

If he had to move to safety for us for a coupla games he could do that too. His dogged tenacity apparently plays anywhere, and he doesn't care how big or fast the other guy is. He's not the most physically talented guy, but he plays like an old-school corner, and I love that in a young guy. The way he approaches the game reminds me of Crockett, and I loved the hell outta that guy. Nobody's allowed to play that physically anymore (unless you're playing against the Broncos or in the Seattle secondary) but Harris has that kind of want-to against anybody.

Really hungry corner. I expect to keep him for a long time.

~G



I think you nailed it on Harris ability to adapt to any position. He reminds me of Wesly Woodyard, who can play any LB position. Harris can really play any DB position and that alone makes him invaluable to this defense. BOTH players went undrafted......amazing!

[cmc0605]

Champ Bailey has already said that the "re-injury" was mild and his is aiming to come back after the bye. Even if he doesn't meet that target, we still have a whole half season left...he'll be back and a great addition to our already good secondary.

[DenBronx]

If he comes back and reaggravates it again then he will be done for the year. He should just rest until the playoffs....really.......why risk it? Be smart Champ and heal up.

[ForgettingBrandonMarshall]

I say leave Bailey out until the last 2 or 3 games of the season to get him in game shape for the playoffs. Our defense showed improvement this weekend and there's no need to rush him back.

[cmc0605]

I say leave Bailey out until any pain is tolerable and he can make all the moves/cuts that a CB is expected to make. This is what doctors and player judgment are for. Leaving players out for the sake of it makes no sense.

[Joel]

I believe it was before the Jags game that he said he didn't think the pain would ever completely vanish. How literal he was I can't say, but it was very discouraging, and that was before aggravating the injury.

[Ravage!!!]

The Chargers don't have a deep array of WRs, and the Chiefs certainly don't. I wouldn't rush him back, but at the same time, if he doesn't play better than what he has been... I'd rather the other guys continue to get playing time. I think it woudl be a BAD thing to not have game time before the playoffs considering how poor he looked when on the field.

[powderaddict]

I say if Champ and his Dr's say he can play, to let him play. He may be done for good, he may not. But if he's cleared to play, then suit up and let's see how he does. I'd rather know how he is before the playoffs then run him out there at that time unknown.

[aberdien]

I just hope we can get him a ring on his way out.

[Joel]

I say if Champ and his Dr's say he can play, to let him play. He may be done for good, he may not. But if he's cleared to play, then suit up and let's see how he does. I'd rather know how he is before the playoffs then run him out there at that time unknown.
That's a good point, and it also occurred to me we don't want the D in flux headed the playoffs; IF he can return this year, it would be a good idea to work him in 2-3 games before the playoffs if possible, so he gets his feet back under him and everyone gets a feel for how the D will flow and who'll cover what with Champ on the field. Otherwise, it may be a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Playoff games are a bad place to experiment unless there's absolutely no choice.

[Zweems56]

I dont think we have to. If we are able to re-sign DRC, I'm ok with Webster in the #2 spot. He has impressed me this year.



I disagree. I think Harris excels more in the slot than he does outside and I think he would certainly be content in that role

I think he excels in the slot role as well, but what i'd like to see him do is slide to the slot in nickel packages. If we only have 2 corners on the field, I'd like him to be out there.

[NightTerror218]

Lately I have been thinking that this could be Champs last year with Broncos unless he takes massive pay cut. But i think we have a bunch of young players coming near end of rookie contracts at end of season. Moreno Decker holliday walton beadles are all keepers at the moment. Ayers I think can go. But champ and Peyton take up huge cap space. Money would have to come from bailey imo.

[Ravage!!!]

Bailey's play doesn't justify the pay. I have defended and stood behind Champ for years, but now, the time has come. We have young players that can step into the role without the impact on the cap.

I don't think Champ can come down far enough for us to justify keeping him.

[Simple Jaded]

The Broncos will most likely give Bailey the option to return at market value or move on, meaning his release to find what his value is. If they can't agree to a deal he'll move on.

As for Beadles, he's the only current starter w/o a contract in '14 and with so much money in Clady, Vasquez and eventually Franklin, I'm thinking (hoping) Beadles has priced himself outta Denver's price range. Is he good? At times, but you can't tie that much cap space in the G position. You can call him a ProBowl G all you want, just don't pay him like one.

Moreno has a club option for '14, which the Broncos will exercise, imo.

[Dzone]

Seems like when these shutdown corners hit the wall, it happens fast and then they are no longer worth the money...Asomugha is only 32 and he is unemployed, not sure if Revis is any good anymore and he is only 28.
Hopefully Champ can still contribute this season without getting burned too bad

[Simple Jaded]

Seems like when these shutdown corners hit the wall, it happens fast and then they are no longer worth the money...Asomugha is only 32 and he is unemployed, not sure if Revis is any good anymore and he is only 28.
Hopefully Champ can still contribute this season without getting burned too bad
If he's hit the wall it's appropriate to discuss a move to S, if he's willing and capable, if that's the case. After all these years of "Champ to Safety" brain damage it may finally be that time.

Edit, but not at $10 mil per year.

[Ravage!!!]

If he's hit the wall it's appropriate to discuss a move to S, if he's willing and capable, if that's the case. After all these years of "Champ to Safety" brain damage it may finally be that time.

Edit, but not at $10 mil per year.

And we don't even know if he can make the conversion. THis "he can read and tackle" isn't all that is necessary. We've seen good/great corners move to safety and fail. So although so many think it will just be a seamless transition, I don't see it that way.

[Simple Jaded]

And we don't even know if he can make the conversion. THis "he can read and tackle" isn't all that is necessary. We've seen good/great corners move to safety and fail. So although so many think it will just be a seamless transition, I don't see it that way.
I've just never been able to take that transition for granted, I completely agree. Not only would he have to make that transition he'd have to be an upgrade over Moore and DookieNacho, because he won't consider the move and corresponding paycut to be a backup, this is no gimme whatsoever.