AIM and Idle No More to Protest at Redskins-Broncos Game Sunday

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Two Denver-based groups are set to protest against the Washington Redskins refusal to change its name and mascot.

Members of the American Indian Movement and Idle No More in Colorado will call on the football team to change its name at the Broncos-Redskins game on Sunday.

Members of the group say that the name is “racist” and “an insult to all indigenous peoples.” They are also telling all Colorado news and sports journalists to banish the so-called 'R' word from their reporting; asking that local press such as The Denver Post and NBC’s KUSA to call them “the team from Washington, D.C.”


rest - ndiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/23/aim-and-idle-no-more-protest-redskins-bronco-game-sunday-151896

[CoachChaz]

I long for the day when the Redskins, Chinks, Niggaz and Wetbacks are in the playoffs

[BroncoNut]

I long for the day when the Redskins, Chinks, Niggaz and Wetbacks are in the playoffs

post reported. racist. how would you like if a team were named the Pollacks or something?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Do you know the history of the Washington Redskins? As the issue becomes increasingly contentious — with many claiming the name is racist or discriminatory and pushing for a change — Glenn Beck tackled the issue head-on Friday.

“Ninety percent of Native Americans feel that the name isn’t offensive and shouldn’t be changed,” Beck remarked, echoing a letter written by the Redskins owner Dan Snyder to fans. “Students at primarily Native American schools all across America wear the name with pride, and say now they’re afraid they might lose the name. At Kingston Oklahoma high school, which is 58 percent Native American, the name ‘Redskins’ has been worn by its students for 104 years. In fact, ‘Redskins’ was a name first used by Native Americans.”

“In 1932, the NFL team moved to the historic Fenway Park and were left under the leadership of George Preston Marshall. The very next year, Marshall changed the name to ‘Redskins.’ Why?” Beck continued. “Well that’s a good question for the president to ask … the name was changed to ‘Redskins’ to honor then-coach Lone Star Dietz, an American Sioux. So the name actually pays tribute to a great people.

rest - http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/11/do-you-know-the-history-behind-the-name-washington-redskins/

[Ravage!!!]

whats a Pollack?

[Poet]

whats a Pollack?

Stupid white people.

[Ravage!!!]

Stupid white people.

I just thought those were called texans.

[Poet]

I just thought those were called texans.

No. They're more formally known as Missourians.

[CoachChaz]

post reported. racist. how would you like if a team were named the Pollacks or something?

As long as it only had one L in it, I'd be happy. I could at least start a team with Bulaga, Gronkowski, Gostkowski, Liwienski, Wisniewski, Pozluszny, Zbikowski, Janikowski, Hynoski and believe it or not...Romo.

[Poet]

Romoski

[CoachChaz]

Romoski

Did you mean Romanowski? I could have an all-star team with retired players.

Jaworski, Bartkowski, Marino, Ditka, Ham, Klecko, Matuszak, Munchak, Nagurski, Osmanski, Stepnoski.....

[tripp]

As long as it only had one L in it, I'd be happy. I could at least start a team with Bulaga, Gronkowski, Gostkowski, Liwienski, Wisniewski, Pozluszny, Zbikowski, Janikowski, Hynoski and believe it or not...Romo.

Maybe you can get Romanowski out of retirement and Jaworski. LOL.

EDIT: You beat me to the punch haha.

[Poet]

Did you mean Romanowski? I could have an all-star team with retired players.

Jaworski, Bartkowski, Marino, Ditka, Ham, Klecko, Matuszak, Munchak, Nagurski, Osmanski, Stepnoski.....

I was trying to be funny since Romo didn't have a ski.

But yeah, you'd have quite the Pollack team.

[CoachChaz]

I was trying to be funny since Romo didn't have a ski.

But yeah, you'd have quite the Pollack team.

Got it. Actually, Romo and Marino have Polish moms.

[Poet]

Got it. Actually, Romo and Marino have Polish moms.

Your team is stacked.

[CoachChaz]

Your team is stacked.

I think we could beat a bunch of Redskins and Wetbacks...but we may have problems against the Niggaz

[Poet]

I think we could beat a bunch of Redskins and Wetbacks...but we may have problems against the Niggaz

Dat Nguyen is going to be pissed that he has to play 22 positions.

[CoachChaz]

Dat Nguyen is going to be pissed that he has to play 22 positions.

We'll be nice to him because he was an Aggie.

[Poet]

We'll be nice to him because he was an Aggie.

Well, I heard that he liked mayonnaise and hiking, so he can play for the Pollacks in spirit!

[Nomad]

I remember Nguyen when he played for the Aggies....damn good linebacker. That was a while ago, but I remember thinking and surprised how well a Vietnamese played football.

[Northman]

I remember Nguyen when he played for the Aggies....damn good linebacker. That was a while ago, but I remember thinking and surprised how well a Vietnamese played football.

Didnt he end up playing for the Cowboys?

[Poet]

Yes he did.

[Nomad]

Didnt he end up playing for the Cowboys?

He did, but I don't recall how his career went in the NFL.

[Dapper Dan]

You mean like the "fighting irish?" :confused: Funny how nobody mentions the equally offensive and equally racist moniker. Bob Coastas was obvious in skirting the name during his cute little diatribe a couple of weeks ago.

Because white people aren't allowed to be offended. They owned slaves once.

[DenBronx]

You mean like the "fighting irish?" :confused: Funny how nobody mentions the equally offensive and equally racist moniker. Bob Coastas was obvious in skirting the name during his cute little diatribe a couple of weeks ago.


Good grief I hope the dont do that to Notre Dame. I am Irish and I don't get offended by that at all. I am however offended that they havent won a championship in many many years.

But....people do stupid things so I wouldnt be shocked. Anytime there is an outrage usually money is the root of the lawsuit. Someone takes initiative to sue then they get a nice settlement. God bless the American way....*sigh*

[Poet]

The counter-argument to the Fighting Irish is that 'they' named themselves.

[DenBronx]

The counter-argument to the Fighting Irish is that 'they' named themselves.

Were 'they' all Irish or just a bunch of Catholic American whiteys???




Just wondering when PITA is going to step in for all of the teams with animal names.

[NightTrainLayne]

Because white people aren't allowed to be offended. They owned slaves once.

I'm not sure the Irish owned slaves though.

[Poet]

Were 'they' all Irish or just a bunch of Catholic American whiteys???




Just wondering when PITA is going to step in for all of the teams with animal names.

I believe option two, although I'm sure many of them were Irish.

[DenBronx]

Irish Slavery: The forgotten "white" slaves.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

[BroncoNut]

As long as it only had one L in it, I'd be happy. I could at least start a team with Bulaga, Gronkowski, Gostkowski, Liwienski, Wisniewski, Pozluszny, Zbikowski, Janikowski, Hynoski and believe it or not...Romo.

I totally believe Romo. I've run across more than my fair share of psychos of polish descent.

[BroncoNut]

man, I wish my ancestors of 3-4 generations ago were enslaved. must be nice to sit on a fat ass all day and having your bills paid for by working fools

[OrangeHoof]

CBS Sports quotes TMZ that a neighbor of Daniel Snyder is cyber-squatting the "Washington Bravehearts" and "Washington Brave Hearts". I think that's a stretch.

[OrangeHoof]

It would be fun to walk around the protestors offering the passing fans some Redskin potatoes....

[Nomad]

What do you think, OH? I was listening to a late night sports radio show and the guy made a comment that after the Redskins goes away, they'll go after Cowboys because that's equally offensive to them.

[MOtorboat]

I know right. White people telling natives that even though they aren't offended they should be offended because white folk said so. AIM is a bunch of whiteys a la Elizabeth Warren and that kook of a professor Churchill masquerading as natives. But the same crackas are too afraid to pipe up and highlight the equally offensive "fighting irish."

AIM is not a "bunch of whiteys."

Can someone explain to me what makes "Fighting Irish" racist? Specifics please.

Redskins, describing someone by the color of their skin is a racist term. The Fighting Sioux is not a racist term, so Fighting Irish is also not a racist term. But Redskins is.

The amount of ignorance in this thread is astounding.

[MOtorboat]

What do you think, OH? I was listening to a late night sports radio show and the guy made a comment that after the Redskins goes away, they'll go after Cowboys because that's equally offensive to them.

How does Cowboy describe a skin color in a derogatory fashion?

Redskin - Racist term.
Cowboy - Profession.

Yeah, I see how those are the same.

[Nomad]

How does Cowboy describe a skin color in a derogatory fashion?

Redskin - Racist term.
Cowboy - Profession.

Yeah, I see how those are the same.

Don't know, man. It seems to be a controversial topic amongst Halloween costumes especially at universities (university of Colorado being one) and I guess the radio guy said his opinion and stated he wouldn't be surprised to see some group like Natives go after the name. Google ' no cowboy Halloween costumes' and youll see the many links

[MOtorboat]

Don't know, man. It seems to be a controversial topic amongst Halloween costumes especially at universities (university of Colorado being one) and I guess the radio guy said his opinion and stated he wouldn't be surprised to see some group like Natives go after the name. Google ' no cowboy Halloween costumes' and youll see the many links

That's stupid. One thing is a racist term. The other is not. It's not too difficult to understand.

[Nomad]

That's stupid. One thing is a racist term. The other is not. It's not too difficult to understand.

I agree. It is about the same as going after Ole Miss Rebels.

[OrangeHoof]

What do you think, OH? I was listening to a late night sports radio show and the guy made a comment that after the Redskins goes away, they'll go after Cowboys because that's equally offensive to them.

If they were the Dallas Bushes, their head would explode.

[Poet]

AIM is not a "bunch of whiteys."

Can someone explain to me what makes "Fighting Irish" racist? Specifics please.

Redskins, describing someone by the color of their skin is a racist term. The Fighting Sioux is not a racist term, so Fighting Irish is also not a racist term. But Redskins is.

The amount of ignorance in this thread is astounding.

Alright, I have to weigh in and give my honest opinion now, although destroying Buff was enjoyable.

http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2013/10/11/2772101/major-native-american-group-fight/

The Redskins are supposed to be 'honored' by the name, right? Well, you wouldn't want the honoring to actually do harm.

[Dzone]

Fighting Irish is not demeaning to Irish people? It sure as hell is. Some people have it ingrained in their minds that Irish men are a bunch of hot tempered, pugilistic drunks just itching for a fight. How many Irish men have been told "Oh you have an Irish temper"? Aint that a crock of bullshit? :beer: I so want to go to a pub, drink Guinness and get in a fight. Just to show everyone that I am Irish
lol

[Dzone]

Oh, and Irish people dont discriminate. They like to fight with all colors.

[Northman]

I find the name Maryland Terrapins offensive. Its an insult to turtles everywhere. Who wants to sign my petition?

[MOtorboat]

I find the name Maryland Terrapins offensive. Its an insult to turtles everywhere. Who wants to sign my petition?

Are people really this dense?

[Northman]

Are people really this dense?

Are you really that much of an *******?

[MOtorboat]

Are you really that much of an *******?

If pointing out that Terrapins is not a racist term in any form or fashion and Redskins is makes me an *******, then yeah, I guess I am. Because that's about as an idiotic of a comparison as I can find.

[Northman]

If pointing out that Terrapins is not a racist term in any form or fashion and Redskins is makes me an *******, then yeah, I guess I am. Because that's about as an idiotic of a comparison as I can find.

So says you. But im sure there is someone out there that find it offensive. Bottom line, anything can be offensive to someone if they want it too be.

[MOtorboat]

So says you. But im sure there is someone out there that find it offensive.

Well, I can cite sources of people who believe that Redskin is a racist term. Can you cite sources who find terrapin as a racist term?

If you can, I would gladly concede.

[Poet]

If pointing out that Terrapins is not a racist term in any form or fashion and Redskins is makes me an *******, then yeah, I guess I am. Because that's about as an idiotic of a comparison as I can find.

His point is that a mascot is not a very big deal, and focusing on it is typically a waste of time. If the point of these outcries is to eliminate racism, they can probably find better venues to do so. If they can't find better venues of racism to fight, then clearly their fight is a moot point.

[Northman]

Well, I can cite sources of people who believe that Redskin is a racist term.

And there are plenty who dont both native american and non native american.

[Dzone]

I find the name Maryland Terrapins offensive. Its an insult to turtles everywhere. Who wants to sign my petition?
Lmao! :pound:

[Northman]

His point is that a mascot is not a very big deal, and focusing on it is typically a waste of time. If the point of these outcries is to eliminate racism, they can probably find better venues to do so. If they can't find better venues of racism to fight, then clearly their fight is a moot point.

Well, you would actually have to be educated to understand what i was getting at King. I mean really....

[Poet]

Well, you would actually have to be educated to understand what i was getting at King. I mean really....

Shots fired.

[Northman]

Shots fired.

He drew first blood, not me.

[MOtorboat]

Well, you would actually have to be educated to understand what i was getting at King. I mean really....

Nice pot shot. A pretty pathetic one, but whatever. I wouldn't expect much else from a racist.

You find those sources that show terrapin is offensive yet?

[Dzone]

His point is that a mascot is not a very big deal, and focusing on it is typically a waste of time. If the point of these outcries is to eliminate racism, they can probably find better venues to do so. If they can't find better venues of racism to fight, then clearly their fight is a moot point.
Excellent insight ...Unfortunately, there are those who need something like this mascot controversy.

[Northman]

Nice pot shot. A pretty pathetic one, but whatever. I wouldn't expect much else from a racist.

You find those sources that show terrapin is offensive yet?

Oh yea, im a racist. Woohoo, go whitey!!!

[MOtorboat]

Has anyone actually answered the question about how "redskin" isn't a term specific to race?

[Poet]

Has anyone actually answered the question about how "redskin" isn't a term specific to race?

Yes, I have.

[MOtorboat]

Yes, I have.

I missed that. Can you link me? I'm all for intelligent debate and thought.

Suggesting a terrapin is as racist as redskin isn't such conversation.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I posted the following before, but here it is again. If this is true, based on the reason they were named Redskins, I can not see how this can be considered offensive.


Do you know the history of the Washington Redskins? As the issue becomes increasingly contentious — with many claiming the name is racist or discriminatory and pushing for a change — Glenn Beck tackled the issue head-on Friday.

“Ninety percent of Native Americans feel that the name isn’t offensive and shouldn’t be changed,” Beck remarked, echoing a letter written by the Redskins owner Dan Snyder to fans. “Students at primarily Native American schools all across America wear the name with pride, and say now they’re afraid they might lose the name. At Kingston Oklahoma high school, which is 58 percent Native American, the name ‘Redskins’ has been worn by its students for 104 years. In fact, ‘Redskins’ was a name first used by Native Americans.”

“In 1932, the NFL team moved to the historic Fenway Park and were left under the leadership of George Preston Marshall. The very next year, Marshall changed the name to ‘Redskins.’ Why?” Beck continued. “Well that’s a good question for the president to ask … the name was changed to ‘Redskins’ to honor then-coach Lone Star Dietz, an American Sioux. So the name actually pays tribute to a great people.”


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/11/do-you-know-the-history-behind-the-name-washington-redskins/

[Dzone]

He drew first blood, not me.
I agree and he has resorted to calling you names now. And calling members of the board Ignorant if they dont agree with him. Both are uncalled for. He is always best ignored. He is always looking for someone to try to shoot down.

[Northman]

I agree and he has resorted to calling you names now. And calling members of the board Ignorant if they dont agree with him. Both are uncalled for. He is always best ignored. He is always looking for someone to try to shoot down.

Nah, i like MO. He just happens to be wrong here. Carol pretty much shut him down with that article so the proofs in the pudding.

[Dzone]

Nah, i like MO. He just happens to be wrong here. Carol pretty much shut him down with that article so the proofs in the pudding.
Good , Im glad you like him. Im sure he is a swell guy. I usually keep him on ignore lol

[Poet]

I missed that. Can you link me? I'm all for intelligent debate and thought.

Suggesting a terrapin is as racist as redskin isn't such conversation.

I argued that since the word Redskin is now linked with the franchise almost entirely, and since no one uses it as a slur, it is no longer a racist term. I concocted that 'logic train', and while I do think that the name should be changed, I stand by the analysis. If you want, I can find some links where people defend the name.

[Northman]

Good , Im glad you like him. Im sure he is a swell guy. I usually keep him on ignore lol

It could be worse. He could be Jagsbitch.

[Poet]

Good , Im glad you like him. Im sure he is a swell guy. I usually keep him on ignore lol

Mo's the man.

[DenBronx]

Just change it to the Washington Whiteskins. White people are exempt from ever getting offended by anything anyway.

[MOtorboat]

Nah, i like MO. He just happens to be wrong here. Carol pretty much shut him down with that article so the proofs in the pudding.

Glenn Beck provides zero sources, so forgive me if I ignore it.

And something 80 years ago may not have been offensive to the one person involved, which is what I see there, one dude. We don't live in the same environment. If Native Americans, any number of them find it offensive, then the word is offensive.

Again, of course this gets ignored, if Daniel Snyder doesn't want to change the name that's his choice, but that doesn't mean the term isn't racist. Which it is.

[Dzone]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears
Please read this tonight. Good night

[Dzone]

Nah, i like MO. He just happens to be wrong here. Carol pretty much shut him down with that article so the proofs in the pudding.
Oh ya, all my friends call me a racist..NOT LOL...

[MOtorboat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears
Please read this tonight. Good night

Good link. Hopefully in the future, people educate themselves about the atrocities that the Native Americans had to endure and will recognize that calling them racist names should be eliminated as it is with African Americans.

[DenBronx]

I think The White Stripes need to change their band name because it has white in the name and it offends me as a white person. Clearly they are racist and it is a racist name for a band. The same goes for White Zombie.

And why are there white stripes on a black road? Why not black stripes on a white road? The majority of the road should be white.

[skins_fan82]

i bet theyre all white. get a ******* life.

wish they'd spend their time helping feed the homeless or volunteering then picketing for the.name of a sports team. Theyve been the Redskins for almost 80 years....why is everybody all whining all of a sudden?

i blame social media. people "like" and "support" whatever the latest movement is at the moment to be hip, cool, and progressive.

[Krugan]

This thread is a riot..

At some point, people need to let go of this kind of argument and focus on real issues. People out of work, losing homes, living in poverty, kids hungry, drugs all over the damn place, Facebook.

So many real issues, yet a sports team name draws this much attention.

One last thing cause its a pet peeve, can these rich hollywood douche bags stop making these pleads to help some person in some backwards ass country and start begging for my meager ******* wage to help people in this country?

Or better yet, them asshats can start paying 1.50 a day to provide that little botswanian kids schooling? God knows as much as movies cost, them people can afford that paltry sum, without asking me for 10 minutes worth of work a day.

There, there is something off the wall too, because the argument about the terps about killed me.

[Northman]

This thread is a riot..

At some point, people need to let go of this kind of argument and focus on real issues. People out of work, losing homes, living in poverty, kids hungry, drugs all over the damn place, Facebook.

So many real issues, yet a sports team name draws this much attention.

One last thing cause its a pet peeve, can these rich hollywood douche bags stop making these pleads to help some person in some backwards ass country and start begging for my meager ******* wage to help people in this country?

Or better yet, them asshats can start paying 1.50 a day to provide that little botswanian kids schooling? God knows as much as movies cost, them people can afford that paltry sum, without asking me for 10 minutes worth of work a day.

There, there is something off the wall too, because the argument about the terps about killed me.

Well said.

[701Bronco]

They need to just let go of the name quickly. It will end up being a long drawn out battle that only ends up dividing fans and costing millions of dollars. They'll lose because the NFL will cave and tell the skins they can no longer play with the name. I live in ND and the same thing happened to our fighting Sioux hockey team. In the end the standing rock Sioux tribe were the ones suing to try and keep the name. More white people were behind making the change than native Americans.

[701Bronco]

Also, Bob Costas is a whiny little bitch.

[Dreadnought]

I mostly don't care, but when it comes to AIM I usually figure that taking the opposite viewpoint of whatever they are complaining about is a good default position.

[Nomad]

They need to just let go of the name quickly. It will end up being a long drawn out battle that only ends up dividing fans and costing millions of dollars. They'll lose because the NFL will cave and tell the skins they can no longer play with the name. I live in ND and the same thing happened to our fighting Sioux hockey team. In the end the standing rock Sioux tribe were the ones suing to try and keep the name. More white people were behind making the change than native Americans.

White people complain too much. I miss the NODAK bird hunting at this time of the year.

[Nomad]

I mostly don't care, but when it comes to AIM I usually figure that taking the opposite viewpoint of whatever they are complaining about is a good default position.

I really don't care either way as well. I never heard of the AIM until now....I live a sheltered life.:lol:

[atwater27]

The amount of ignorance in this thread is astounding.

The amount of white guilt you hold in your heart is even more astounding

[BroncoJoe]

Reasonable men and women don’t take offense where no offense is intended, and they don’t gratuitously give offense merely to be offensive. But people who traffic in manufactured indignation aren’t reasonable. It’s easier to parade their enlightened sensitivity, after all, if other people’s sensitivities can be trampled underfoot. The enthusiastic crowds singing “Hail to the Redskins” are football fans, not Nazis or defenders of slavery. They’re not the same thing, even if the sensitivity posse has a hard time remembering that.

I’m not a sports fan. I have no interest in Redskins football. And I have no trouble understanding why the team’s name genuinely rubs some people the wrong way. But there is no limit to what may rub people the wrong way. Start scrapping names and emblems on the basis that someone finds them offensive and you’ll be scrapping names and emblems forever. Institutions and societies can’t function that way. No one is guaranteed the right to go through life unoffended. You may not like the name of a sports team, or a company logo, or a school’s mascot. But disapproval isn’t an argument, let alone a definitive one.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/10/22/redskins-foes-take-offense-where-none-intended/OTWgf5fCMUYPktGXcwzdQP/story.html

Next thing someone will complain about: CEO / CFO / COO etc. I mean they all refer to a Chief, right?

[atwater27]

Good link. Hopefully in the future, people educate themselves about the atrocities that the Native Americans had to endure and will recognize that calling them racist names should be eliminated as it is with African Americans.

We are all fully aware of the history of Native Americans. We hardly need a schmarmy midget know it all to pretend to 'educate ' us on the matter. We also know enough that the Redskin moniker is not hurting a single individual including all native americans who, by the way, are many generations removed from actual discrimination.. Again, your misguided white guilt is showing, I suggest you pick up a more legitimate and rewarding hobby.

[MOtorboat]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/10/22/redskins-foes-take-offense-where-none-intended/OTWgf5fCMUYPktGXcwzdQP/story.html

Next thing someone will complain about: CEO / CFO / COO etc. I mean they all refer to a Chief, right?

How is "chief" a racist term? I mean, you could be right, I've just never heard that before.

[atwater27]

I wouldn't expect much else from a racist.


Only an absolute coward would make that accusation. North is not a racist, and you better bring some slam dunk proof before you accuse anyone of something that horrible, especially when it is just to try to make a pretentious 'internet' argument valid. Get ahold of yourself, son.

[BroncoJoe]

How is "chief" a racist term? I mean, you could be right, I've just never heard that before.

Have you ever heard someone use the word Redskin in a racist way MO?

[Nomad]

Just curious....how long has the AIM, or Native Americans in general, been wanting the name Redskins changed? It seems over the last 10 years, the PC crowd has been running rampant trying to change everything, or manufacturing what's offensive. Again, I am curious if this has always been an issue with the NAs.

[BroncoJoe]

I think Native American's should absolutely embrace the term and the team. For 16+ weeks a year, they get national coverage - far better than Black Awareness Month. If they approached Snyder with their full support, I'd imagine he'd throw his money and influence toward their plights, perhaps even donate X sums of money toward further education, etc. that they currently spend millions trying to make people aware.

At least that's what I'd do.

[atwater27]

Just curious....how long has the AIM, or Native Americans in general, been wanting the name Redskins changed? It seems over the last 10 years, the PC crowd has been running rampant trying to change everything, or manufacturing what's offensive. Again, I am curious if this has always been an issue with the NAs.

Exactly. This is the definition of a manufactured crisis.

[MOtorboat]

Have you ever heard someone use the word Redskin in a racist way MO?

Yup. Sure have.

[BroncoJoe]

Yup. Sure have.

Then you should probably pick your friends better. As stated in the other thread, I have never in my 51 years on this planet EVER heard someone use the term for anything other than the football team.

[Timmy!]

Being from a reservation, this thread is hilarious.

[BroncoJoe]

Being from a reservation, this thread is hilarious.

What's your take? Sorry if I've missed it.

Just to be clear, I really couldn't care one way or another. I think it's a manufactured crusade, but whatever the outcome doesn't effect me.

[Northman]

Then you should probably pick your friends better. As stated in the other thread, I have never in my 51 years on this planet EVER heard someone use the term for anything other than the football team.

Same

[Dreadnought]

Just an administrative note - By all means debate the issue. Do so without calling people who disagree "Racists" or "Idiots" or any variation thereof or the thread will be locked.

Please carry on

[Ravage!!!]

Fighting Irish is not a racist term. That would be like saying the Fighting Indians.... which is NOT racist. I think some are truly confused as to what is considered racist.

[Krugan]

AIM has been forever a fringe group, and over the top.

Russel Means was a former AIM leader, look him up.

There are stories of good and stories of armed tactics to raise awareness of his peoples.

if you really want to know about this stuff, you cant go into it feeling sorry for being what ever race you are.

[Timmy!]

What's your take? Sorry if I've missed it.

Just to be clear, I really couldn't care one way or another. I think it's a manufactured crusade, but whatever the outcome doesn't effect me.

Pretty much same as yours, its a very small amount of people whining over something for the sake of getting attention. Many natives on the res were/are redskin fans just because of the name, and the rest couldn't give a shit, they are far more concerned about their free money. They don't find it offensive, its not like its being used to degrade them. Within 60 miles we have teams called Indians (x4 or 5)warriors, and Chiefs. Its all about context. Savages, scalpers or spear chuckers would be different, but obviously that's not the case. A far higher % of white folk think this is an issue than anyone else.

[Nomad]

:lol: the NFL Shop is advertising Redskins gear at the bottom of the page.

[Nomad]

Pretty much same as yours, its a very small amount of people whining over something for the sake of getting attention. Many natives on the res were/are redskin fans just because of the name, and the rest couldn't give a shit, they are far more concerned about their free money. They don't find it offensive, its not like its being used to degrade them. Within 60 miles we have teams called Indians (x4 or 5)warriors, and Chiefs. Its all about context. Savages, scalpers or spear chuckers would be different, but obviously that's not the case. A far higher % of white folk think this is an issue than anyone else.

So the media picks up on it and fuels the drama. Wouldn't scalpers be an honor for an NA and an insult for a white man? I'm not insulted, but just wondering.

[Timmy!]

So the media picks up on it and fuels the drama. Wouldn't scalpers be an honor for an NA and an insult for a white man? I'm not insulted, but just wondering.

Ding ding ding.

As far as scalpers, no doubt some would smirk a bit as generally reminding white people that they got owned a couple times (I.e. Custer) is pretty common, most are smart enough to know being portrayed that way is offensive, even if it is historical fact. I mean we wouldn't want our team called the "smallpox givers" or "treaty breakers."

[skins_fan82]

Just curious....how long has the AIM, or Native Americans in general, been wanting the name Redskins changed? It seems over the last 10 years, the PC crowd has been running rampant trying to change everything, or manufacturing what's offensive. Again, I am curious if this has always been an issue with the NAs.

quoted for emphasis.

Again folks, the team has been called the REDSKINS since 1932. 81 years.

Why all of a sudden is everybody getting "offended" now? There's a lot more white people making a fuss than NAs. Bob Costas said himself on his Sunday Night Football rant that "most NAs are not offended." so what the ****??

Again, those folks that will apparently be protesting outside the game tomorrow about a sports team name, should rather spend their time volunteering at a homeless shelter or picking up trash in a city park. You know, something that actually MATTERS??

[capt. Jack]

I think Broncos, offends all nice horses, maybe they all aren't "Wild horses" maybe they should change the name to the ponys.

[DenBronx]

The raiders name is offensive because raider means theif and stealing is illegal. They are promoting crime and I want to sue.

Bob Costas also thinks everyone here needs sensitivity training on these issues. :laugh:

[Timmy!]

The raiders name is offensive because raider means theif and stealing is illegal. They are promoting crime and I want to sue.

Bob Costas also thinks everyone here needs sensitivity training on these issues. :laugh:


Well Costas is also afraid of guns.....and probably red meat, beer, and female genitalia.

[DenBronx]

Well Costas is also afraid of guns.....and probably red meat, beer, and female genitalia.

Costas can go fcku himself.

[capt. Jack]

You guys are funny! :)

[Joel]

He did, but I don't recall how his career went in the NFL.
Some years he was the best player on the team, and was always among the best, but underappreciated by all save hardcore fans. Solid, hard tackler, seldom missed, was all over the field making plays, and in on the tackle nearly every down. Kind of like DJ without the offfield issues.

As for the rest of the thread, The Blaze is hardly a credible or objective source even when not quoting Glenn Beck, but Think Progress is only marginally (if any) better; it just goes the other direction. Though I don't remember anyone at Think Progress calling Breiviks high school murder victims "Hitler Youth." Defending a neo-nazi on the grounds he "only" gunned down kids whose politics Beck dislikes makes him exceptional. :tsk:

While considering history it's worth noting the Redskins might get the benefit of a doubt had George Marshall not been such a notorious racist himself. That the team changed its name >30 years before the US banned poll taxes—and just 17 years after "The Birth of a Nation" was a box office hit—proves nothing; it's not even EVIDENCE of anything except that America was far more "tolerant" of racism 80 years ago.

[Dapper Dan]

Does anyone else feel like "Idle No More" is the name of a band?

[Joel]

Does anyone else feel like "Idle No More" is the name of a band?
You're thinking of Faith No More—which means you're old(ish.) :tongue:

[rationalfan]

quoted for emphasis.

Again folks, the team has been called the REDSKINS since 1932. 81 years.

Why all of a sudden is everybody getting "offended" now? There's a lot more white people making a fuss than NAs. Bob Costas said himself on his Sunday Night Football rant that "most NAs are not offended." so what the ****??

Again, those folks that will apparently be protesting outside the game tomorrow about a sports team name, should rather spend their time volunteering at a homeless shelter or picking up trash in a city park. You know, something that actually MATTERS??

i've been trying to stay away from this thread because, well, things like this are a lose-lose argument on the web. but, this post pulled me in because, well, it's written with ignorance disguised as justification.

some backstory: i grew up in the dakotas next to a native american reservation and many of my best friends there were natives. then, as a journalist, i covered native american issues in south dakota for several years in the 2000s. so, i feel pretty versed in the issue. and, believe me, this sports team name has been an issue for decades - just not a media issue. people aren't just becoming offended now. perhaps your awareness of the issue is new. the topic is not.

many of my native friends hate the redskins name. some like it. many of my native friends hated the UND Sioux name. some liked it. that's how it's going to be on every issue, people disagree. but i've seen many natives become violently offended by the redskins moniker. it's real, not some media issue contrived to build interest.

also, of course more white people, than natives, are upset about the name. do you realize how many more white people there are in the US than natives? there are going to be more white people having an opinion on anything relating to natives because their population is so much larger. it's just math.

listen, i'm not trying to change anyone's mind on the issue, itself. a post on the internet isn't going to do that. but i had to respond to the idea that this is a "new" debate. if you believe that, ask the AIM members outside the stadium sunday. i'm sure they'd be willing to enlighten you.

[Lancane]

I don't really feel like throwing fuel on the fire nor arguing or debating such a heated subject. But I am of the opinion that promoting anything that slanders others in any form should not be taken lightly, whether you agree with the issue or not.

Is there a moniker that I would find offensive if used to name an NFL Organization, say that London got a team and called themselves the London Gypsies, a racial slander created by white people from the term Egyptian which has nothing really to do with the Romani or Domani subgroups, in most of these subgroup cultures the term is an insult and not until recently has the term been adopted by some in those groups much like the N word has been accepted by some African-Americans. I would likely have a combination of emotions regarding the use of the term, while it would be accepted by some of those of such heritage it would be hurtful to just as many as well. What would be the reaction of some citizens if the terms: Coon, Honky, Wetback, Gipp, Spic, Guido, Dago, Cracker, Gook, Fag, Gringo, Injun, Kike, Mick, Raghead, Towelhead and so on were used as such monikers, whether or not the owner or owners felt they did so out of respect?

[Lancane]

Seriously, I believe that the Washington organization likes some of the media attention, it puts them in the spotlight - even if not the most positive of coverage for the team, it is still keeps them in the media crosshairs. It would be far easier to simply comply and change to the Washington Warriors, Washington Braves, Washington Warchiefs or several other more positive monikers that would be nationally accepted.

[Joel]

It's funny you mention London, because the British pro gridiron league has TWO London teams. One is a perennial power (in a rematch of last years Brit Bowl, the other London team denied their chance to threepeat this year) with the unfortunate name "London Blitz." It's not a racial slur, of course, but on hearing the name I couldn't help thinking, Wow, that's incredibly inappropriate and offensive. No word on whether WWII survivors are protesting and demanding a name change, but it wouldn't surprise me, and would certainly be understandable.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

quoted for emphasis.

Again folks, the team has been called the REDSKINS since 1932. 81 years.

Why all of a sudden is everybody getting "offended" now? There's a lot more white people making a fuss than NAs. Bob Costas said himself on his Sunday Night Football rant that "most NAs are not offended." so what the ****??

Again, those folks that will apparently be protesting outside the game tomorrow about a sports team name, should rather spend their time volunteering at a homeless shelter or picking up trash in a city park. You know, something that actually MATTERS??


ALBANY, N.Y. -- Oneida Indian officials who oppose the Redskins nickname as a slur will meet with NFL officials next week in New York, a tribe spokesman said Friday.

The meeting agreed to by NFL officials earlier this month is scheduled for Wednesday in New York, Oneida Indian Nation spokesman Brett Stagnitti confirmed to The Associated Press.

The upstate New York tribe and its leader Ray Halbritter became prominent critics of the team's name after funding a "Change the Mascot" radio ad campaign and a symposium in Washington on the harmful effects of the nickname.

rest - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000269488/article/oneida-officials-to-meet-with-nfl-regarding-redskins-team-name

It is now definitely more than just a small protest at the Broncos/Redskins game tomorrow

[Lancane]

It's funny you mention London, because the British pro gridiron league has TWO London teams. One is a perennial power (in a rematch of last years Brit Bowl, the other London team denied their chance to threepeat this year) with the unfortunate name "London Blitz." It's not a racial slur, of course, but on hearing the name I couldn't help thinking, Wow, that's incredibly inappropriate and offensive. No word on whether WWII survivors are protesting and demanding a name change, but it wouldn't surprise me, and would certainly be understandable.

It is inappropriate if it is a slang term used to describe either a theological group or a specific race of people. Blitz which comes from the defensive term of blitzing which is far different then having the logo of a Native American and using the moniker of Redskin, a term created by and used by white settlers to describe a race that is not their own. I dare anyone on this board to go to a Biker Bar and scream "I see a bar of Peckerwoods" and see what happens, or to a Jewish Wedding and scream "Damn I am surrounded by nothing but Kikes". Would you Joel go to an African American place of business and say, "Excuse me, but do you have anyone working besides you damn Porch Monkeys?". I don't believe you would, and likely you would be offended if someone else did, even though you are not African American.

I'm not offended by the term Gypsy but I am by the term Gipps, while if you say either to most of my relatives they'd probably go ballistic and beat someone to death (literally). It's a matter of perspective to some, to others it's political correctness and to a few it really is hurtful. I think it should matter because according to the laws of this land, discrimination is not acceptable. Would the Catholics be okay if a team was called the St. Paul Molesters? There is more then one terminological use for such a word, it could mean they are good at taking away the ball, but the fact that Saint and Molester were even in the same title would be offensive, like it was a pun. So as I said, it's a matter of perspective for most.

[Joel]

I appreciate the distinction, but we shouldn't parse it too finely. "Blitz" has a well defined football meaning, but ultimately derives from the Nazis use of the term in WWII, not just in continental Europe, but also the multi-year bomb/rocket attacks on civilian Britain generally and London in particular. Even twenty years ago I imagine there would've been enough survivors (and relatives of non-survivors) of the London Blitz to make a sports team by that name impossible. Just like you don't have to read "Slaughterhouse Five" to know the Dresden Bombers would be unacceptable no matter how many Hail Maries they threw.

I mentioned it because your London example provided means to illustrate, not just how naming a team after any racial slur is wrong, but how careless ignorance can easily make it inadvertently HAPPEN anyway.

Personally, I'm conflicted in the Redskins case because I see both sides. On the one hand, there are people on Social Security who've been life-long fans of the team without ever once using the term as a slur or feeling any of the racial animosity that produced it. On the other hand, there are also people on Social Security who've had the term flung at them as a racial slur all their lives, and citing the first group just reminds the second that racism can be and often is so deeply and pervasively ingrained it becomes unconscious in huge swathes of whole nations.

Just because someone doesn't realize they're bigoted doesn't mean they aren't; if it did, bona fide bigots would be virtualy nonexistent. Unfortunately, that's the way it works: People get the idea in their heads that group x is in some way(s) NATURALLY and INHERENTLY inferior to everyone else, so they're convinced BELIEVING and SAYING so isn't offensive or bigoted, just a statement of "fact." At the same time, we shouldn't assume everyone using a recognized slur is guilty of that if there's good reason to believe they don't realize it's a slur. What they do once MADE aware of it is another matter.

The Redskins will probably—eventually—change their name if only to indemnify them against anti-defamation suits (or because the NFL forces them, to indemnify itself.) They probably SHOULD regardless, but that doesn't mean everyone who supports the team and its current name is racist. It mainly means these issues aren't as black and white as many people like to make them. Notre Dame was referenced earlier with the claim "Fighting Irish" isn't a racial slur, yet racists have stereotyped the Irish as brawling drunks since long before football, professional or otherwise.

[Poet]

For the second time you have posted something that does not suck. This is a noteworthy occasion, and is worth celebrating.

[sneakers]

Just put a Red Skin Potato on the helmet decal and no more complaints will be had

[SR]

Just put a Red Skin Potato on the helmet decal and no more complaints will be had

Problem solved

[tripp]

I can count to potato....

[Joel]

I can count to potato....
If you can count to 11 you can coach Denvers defense. :tongue: