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Denver Native (Carol)
10-24-2013, 04:10 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- The Broncos may be forced to juggle their battered offensive line once again Sunday against the Washington Redskins.

Guard Chris Kuper, who was already in the starting lineup because right tackle Orlando Franklin was injured, missed his second consecutive day of practice Thursday because of an ankle injury. Kuper has had multiple surgeries on his ankle since he dislocated it in the 2011 regular-season finale.

For his part Franklin (ankle) was limited in Thursday’s practice after being held out of Wednesday’s practice. Kuper appears unlikely to play Sunday at this point and Franklin isn’t yet full speed, so the Broncos may have to put Winston Justice into the lineup for the first time this season.

rest - plus other injury updates - http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/1941/broncos-poised-to-shuffle-offensive-line

Northman
10-24-2013, 04:12 PM
Well, hopefully Denver can find some magic like Bmore did when they shuffled their Oline.

Ravage!!!
10-24-2013, 04:49 PM
Well, hopefully Denver can find some magic like Bmore did when they shuffled their Oline.

yeah.. getting our RT back is going to be HUGE. If Kuper can EVER play again, and if we can possibly get our center back (having a really hard time with names atm).... things wouldn't look SOOO shitty. But right now, it's rough to watch.

claymore
10-24-2013, 05:57 PM
Maybe we should trade Kuper for Adrian Peterson. :heh:

Traveler
10-24-2013, 06:24 PM
Hate to say it, but if Kuper is having issues with the same ankle he's probably done with this team after the season. Can't keep him around if he keeps having recurring problem with the same injury.

Ziggy
10-24-2013, 08:01 PM
Maybe we should trade Kuper for Adrian Peterson. :heh:

Minnesota would have to throw in a 1st.

Ziggy
10-24-2013, 08:01 PM
Id rather see Moffit than Justice out there.

broncohead
10-24-2013, 09:10 PM
Can Franklin play LT?

Slick
10-24-2013, 09:14 PM
Has Clark been that bad? I mean, he was going against Mathis, who is no slouch. I think he's done a solid job in replacing Clady. In what other game was Clark a liability?

Buff
10-24-2013, 09:25 PM
We need to just let Vasquez be an all-pro right guard... Then at least one of the guys on the right side is in their comfort zone. Hopefully that stability will rub off on Justice.

Slick
10-24-2013, 09:55 PM
We need to just let Vasquez be an all-pro right guard... Then at least one of the guys on the right side is in their comfort zone. Hopefully that stability will rub off on Justice.

Agreed. I was surprised we didn't see more 2 TE sets with Virgil Green on the field. I realize that takes Welker out of the game but it might have stifled some of that Colts pass rush. Peyton could still throw to DT, Decker and Julius or dump it off to Knowshon.

Lancane
10-25-2013, 07:26 AM
Has Clark been that bad? I mean, he was going against Mathis, who is no slouch. I think he's done a solid job in replacing Clady. In what other game was Clark a liability?

Peyton Manning was knockdown ten times in the game versus the Colts, four of those were sacks and most of the hits came by way of Mathis. In what other game has Clark been a liability? Seriously? Slick, Jacksonville got to Manning about as much if not more the week before. Clark isn't horrid, he's about substandard, he'd be an alright Right Tackle for a Right Handed Quarterback, but as a blindside protector? Not only that, but because his lack of ability at the position it causes another issue and that is that Denver is limited in plays they can run because the need for a tight end to step up to help him block.

If I was a defensive coordinator I would be sending two pass rushers on the left side about 70% of the time, even with tight end help the chances are that at least half of those blitzes would be successful - more then the average in the NFL. This is why blindside tackles are so important to his quarterback. And as I said on another thread, if Clark was considered worthy of any caliber, then why didn't the Broncos move him to right tackle and kick Franklin inside where a number of personnel people felt he was a better fit then signing Vasquez to a huge deal? Clark was never more then depth, a backup option they hoped they wouldn't need. Signing him to an extension was a knee jerk reaction by the front office because he knows the offense and the blocking scheme.

Slick
10-25-2013, 09:14 AM
Peyton Manning was knockdown ten times in the game versus the Colts, four of those were sacks and most of the hits came by way of Mathis. In what other game has Clark been a liability? Seriously? Slick, Jacksonville got to Manning about as much if not more the week before. Clark isn't horrid, he's about substandard, he'd be an alright Right Tackle for a Right Handed Quarterback, but as a blindside protector? Not only that, but because his lack of ability at the position it causes another issue and that is that Denver is limited in plays they can run because the need for a tight end to step up to help him block.

If I was a defensive coordinator I would be sending two pass rushers on the left side about 70% of the time, even with tight end help the chances are that at least half of those blitzes would be successful - more then the average in the NFL. This is why blindside tackles are so important to his quarterback. And as I said on another thread, if Clark was considered worthy of any caliber, then why didn't the Broncos move him to right tackle and kick Franklin inside where a number of personnel people felt he was a better fit then signing Vasquez to a huge deal? Clark was never more then depth, a backup option they hoped they wouldn't need. Signing him to an extension was a knee jerk reaction by the front office because he knows the offense and the blocking scheme.

The whole line is responsible for some of the hits Peyton took in the Jacksonville game. Franklin got beat, Ramirez got beat, had some terible snaps as well. You make it sound like Clark is getting beaten like a drum consistently. If I remember correctly, they went to a 2 te set for stretches, and the pressure slowed down substantially. Leaving Julius Thomas one on one with a defensive end is a disaster, and bad offensive execution, not a result of poor line play.

Also, show me one article or quote where anyone in the Broncos front office talked about moving Franklyn inside. As far as I know that is pure speculation and message board chatter.

The oline is going to have to suck it up. Trade for this guy, move so and so here doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

Ravage!!!
10-25-2013, 10:11 AM
Agreed. I think Franklin has proved to be a good RT. The only "talk" I've heard about moving Franklin inside is from the message board experts.

We just need to get SOMEONE healthy, and know that we can NEVER EVER rely on Kuper.

BroncoNut
10-25-2013, 10:21 AM
justice will just have to step up if need be, simple as that. I wouldn't expect much from him on Sunday though, or else you'll be disappointed. Personally, I'd move him inside and slide Vasquz over to tackle.

Lancane
10-25-2013, 10:54 AM
The whole line is responsible for some of the hits Peyton took in the Jacksonville game. Franklin got beat, Ramirez got beat, had some terible snaps as well. You make it sound like Clark is getting beaten like a drum consistently. If I remember correctly, they went to a 2 te set for stretches, and the pressure slowed down substantially. Leaving Julius Thomas one on one with a defensive end is a disaster, and bad offensive execution, not a result of poor line play.

Also, show me one article or quote where anyone in the Broncos front office talked about moving Franklyn inside. As far as I know that is pure speculation and message board chatter.

The oline is going to have to suck it up. Trade for this guy, move so and so here doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

Manning was pressured from the blindside more the weak during both games. All you have to do is re-watch both games to see that pressure was above average on the blindside because all defensive coordinators worth a damn are targeting that side because of Clark, even during plays when the tight end was used as an extra blocker.

As for any article based on Franklin possibly being moved inside and that a number of Broncos' personnel believed Franklin's ability was better set for the interior line. Are we so forgetful that we forget Mike Klis wrote that during this past off-season and it started a number of debates on the board? I will not nor do I have the time waste to search for the article, I know I read it and then discussed it here on these exact boards. Despite Klis being off kilter at times on his columns because he sometimes writes based on his opinion more then fact, he still has more insight then anyone on here. As far as I am concerned, if he was a better fit inside then he should be moved inside but I've also argued that since coming to the league that he's consistently been one of the better right tackles so I felt it was pointless, and I was glad they signed Vasquez to man the right guard spot.

Regarding the last comment, not everyone can simply suck it up, because not everyone has the ability to play beyond their skill, ability, will or drive. You know the story of Rudy Ruettiger correct? He had the will and drive, but he lacked the physical ability or talent to be more then a backup or practice team player for Notre Dame. Sometimes you can not suck it up, it therefor becomes the responsibility of the staff to make the appropriate changes or moves to hide deficiencies of the squad. And it's not like the Broncos are hurting where they can not add someone or make the appropriate moves, they have over ten million in cap space still. And I would be less concerned if they weren't in a 'Win Now' mode, but they are.

Slick
10-25-2013, 03:11 PM
So Klis wrote an article. I still don't remember anyone from the coaching staff speculating about moving Orlando inside. Just Klis and us bums here on messageboards. Like you said we signed Vasquez, not a right tackle so Franklin could play guard. This is a wasted argument.

We all want the line to play like it did when everyone was healthy, but it probably won't this year. We might not have the luxury to be lighting up the scoreboard so we might have to suck it up as a offense and play a little more conservatively with the goal of protecting our 20 million a year QB.

Injuries happen and can derail a teams season. We might fall victim to that. We'll know in a day or two if Elway is willing to max out the cap. I don't think he will.

Joel
10-26-2013, 03:44 PM
Agreed. I was surprised we didn't see more 2 TE sets with Virgil Green on the field. I realize that takes Welker out of the game but it might have stifled some of that Colts pass rush. Peyton could still throw to DT, Decker and Julius or dump it off to Knowshon.
We tried that some but our passing options did suffer for it. Right now, IMHO, Dreesen should always be out there if he's healthy enough, because he catches AND blocks well, while our other TEs only do one or the other. Green's unimpressive receiving so he's for Max Protect/running; Orange Julius is unimpressive blocking so he's for coverage mismatches. Until/unless we get more linemen back we need Dreesen to be a tight end, not Green as a fast tackle or Thomas as a big receiver.