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Joel
10-21-2013, 02:44 PM
As long as that injury had sidelined him, I'm worried reaggravating may end his season, which, in turn, makes me fear it may end his career. A week or two ago he said in an interview that it was still hurting and he "[doesn't] think the pain will ever go away." Until there's fresh news on the damage from Sunday it's all just speculation, but it might be best to play as if this is the last chance at getting Champ a Ring, and if we do it but he plays next season anyway that's just icing on the cake.

Any news is welcome; hopes/prayers Champ's fully healthy soon, for his sake and ours. Whatever else happens, he's earned his place in the Hall; I just hope he can cap his career with an equally deserved Ring. :salute:

slim
10-21-2013, 02:47 PM
They are saying that it's a re-aggravation of the lisfranc injury he suffered earlier this year. Unsure about his return, but I would guess he will be done for the year.

GEM
10-21-2013, 02:52 PM
His injury was a the same as Clady's, just less serious. Hope he doesn't need surgery this time.

claymore
10-21-2013, 02:58 PM
I see a pay cut in his future. He (no offense to anyone) isnt worth 10.5 million a year.

slim
10-21-2013, 02:59 PM
He had the same injury that Le'Veon Bell had. Bell was able to return after 8 weeks (I think). So best case, he may be back for the playoffs, although I'm not sure we want a rusty 35 year old CB starting in the playoffs.

slim
10-21-2013, 02:59 PM
I see a pay cut in his future. He (no offense to anyone) isnt worth 10.5 million a year.

If he wants to play next year, it will be at safety.

claymore
10-21-2013, 03:02 PM
If he wants to play next year, it will be at safety.

Hopefully at a reduced rate. We need that cash for DRC, or maybe even Decker. Hopefully he restructures to a signifigant cut since we've already given him almost $100 million over the course of his career.

G_Money
10-21-2013, 03:03 PM
Lisfranc is a stupid, long-term, painful problem. Like GEM said, it wasn't as serious as Clady's, but I don't expect him back as Champ-of-old this year even if this re-aggravation doesn't end his season.

And then we need to decide after the year whether to give Champ's money to DRC. That certainly looks like the better bet at this point, unfortunately. I really wanted a year of a healthy Champ across from DRC, but now - even if he comes back I don't want him out on a corner all alone. Maybe as a nickel so we can get him some rest and put him against an easier matchup or only play him in zones - I dunno.

But we have to take care of him the rest of the year if he does make it back into the lineup, and I don't know that we're gonna get an instant update on his foot. I'm not expecting him in Sunday's game for sure, though.

~G

Denver Native (Carol)
10-21-2013, 03:45 PM
Lindsay Jones ‏@bylindsayhjones 15m

John Fox says Champ Bailey is in a "week to week" mode. Had a "barrage of testing" on his foot.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-21-2013, 04:05 PM
The Broncos had another MRI exam on the left foot Pro Bowl cornerback Champ Bailey re-injured in the first half Sunday night in a 39-33 loss to the Indianapolis Colts.

The initial results did not reveal any more serious damage, although sometimes that’s worse than finding something. Because something on the bottom of his left foot is causing pain.

rest - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2013/10/21/champ-bailey-has-another-mri-on-left-foot/22593/

BigDaddyBronco
10-21-2013, 04:11 PM
With Champ being day-to-day, a little older, a little slower, and a little rusty, why wouldn't they play Webster over him? So DRC and Harris are both playing pretty well, Webster looks good for a rookie, so Champ needs to be 100% IMO. When they start actively throwing his way and avoiding DRC something is up.

BroncoWave
10-21-2013, 04:30 PM
I see a pay cut in his future. He (no offense to anyone) isnt worth 10.5 million a year.

Anyone offended by that statement is stoopid.

Ziggy
10-21-2013, 05:19 PM
The Kayvon Webster pick is looking better every week.

G_Money
10-21-2013, 05:26 PM
I figured Webster was a guy with raw tools who would need time to grow into being a good pick.

He apparently needs very little time at all. Aggressive, good speed, excellent nose for the ball, good tackler, hits hard, quick feet... what's not to like? He and Harris are both great out there. Whatever else we've done, we know what we like in corners, and it's working for us. With Nacho at safety our defensive backfield is looking more and more quality.

We just need to collapse the pocket more often so they look better. Von: you're up.

~G

DenBronx
10-21-2013, 05:28 PM
I see a pay cut in his future. He (no offense to anyone) isnt worth 10.5 million a year.



I got alot of flack last year when I said he wasnt even our best CB. Harris is our best CB and DRC is right up there with him. I like the young blood in Webster too with Nacho and Moore in the backfield.

Cutting that 10.5 will help keep the younger guys. I feel bad for even saying this but it might be time to move on from Champ at the end of this season. I hope he takes a drastic paycut to stay. At this point in his career he really doesn't NEED the money now anyway, he NEEDS the ring. I suggested we trade Bailey over at Bronco Planet and fans were going nuts over that suggestion. That was only if he wouldnt agree to a new deal. I feel bad for Bailey right now but business is business and even the greatest players are sometimes not exempt, see: P. Manning. I really hope he can play later this year but with his type of injury I don't think he will ever be the same again.


We can't afford to lose Chris Harris guys, we just can't. I would put him right up there with Woody and Miller as one of our better defensive players. And he is very young still.

tripp
10-21-2013, 10:21 PM
I got alot of flack last year when I said he wasnt even our best CB. Harris is our best CB and DRC is right up there with him. I like the young blood in Webster too with Nacho and Moore in the backfield.

Cutting that 10.5 will help keep the younger guys. I feel bad for even saying this but it might be time to move on from Champ at the end of this season. I hope he takes a drastic paycut to stay. At this point in his career he really doesn't NEED the money now anyway, he NEEDS the ring. I suggested we trade Bailey over at Bronco Planet and fans were going nuts over that suggestion. That was only if he wouldnt agree to a new deal. I feel bad for Bailey right now but business is business and even the greatest players are sometimes not exempt, see: P. Manning. I really hope he can play later this year but with his type of injury I don't think he will ever be the same again.


We can't afford to lose Chris Harris guys, we just can't. I would put him right up there with Woody and Miller as one of our better defensive players. And he is very young still.


I agree 100% with this. He's been there when players like Porter (last year), DRC and Bailey have not. Chris Harris has everything to prove and will always have a chip on his shoulder for being undrafted.

Magnificent Seven
10-21-2013, 10:45 PM
Elway has to do something about secondary. Seriously, we need to draft a stud CB in 2014.

ShaneFalco
10-21-2013, 11:02 PM
im offended champ wont be able to pay me 2mil a year to support him on BroncosForums.com

Ziggy
10-22-2013, 01:06 AM
Elway has to do something about secondary. Seriously, we need to draft a stud CB in 2014.

We may have drafted a stud CB in 2013.

dogfish
10-22-2013, 01:31 AM
Elway has to do something about secondary. Seriously, we need to draft a stud CB in 2014.

enh. . . if we can re-sign DRC, we shouldn't have to. . . DRC-harris-webster is a perfectly solid top trio. . . and carter is fine as a dime. . . i still wouldn't mind another pick spent on the secondary (you can never be too deep there in today's game), but we'll likely have more pressing needs. . . like defensive end (especially if ayers walks), WR if decker walks, and O-line depth. . .

claymore
10-22-2013, 07:55 AM
I got alot of flack last year when I said he wasnt even our best CB. Harris is our best CB and DRC is right up there with him. I like the young blood in Webster too with Nacho and Moore in the backfield.

Cutting that 10.5 will help keep the younger guys. I feel bad for even saying this but it might be time to move on from Champ at the end of this season. I hope he takes a drastic paycut to stay. At this point in his career he really doesn't NEED the money now anyway, he NEEDS the ring. I suggested we trade Bailey over at Bronco Planet and fans were going nuts over that suggestion. That was only if he wouldnt agree to a new deal. I feel bad for Bailey right now but business is business and even the greatest players are sometimes not exempt, see: P. Manning. I really hope he can play later this year but with his type of injury I don't think he will ever be the same again.


We can't afford to lose Chris Harris guys, we just can't. I would put him right up there with Woody and Miller as one of our better defensive players. And he is very young still.

I agree 110%. Champ is only worth what someone is willing to pay him. I dont see any team spending more than a couple million a year on Champ at this point. He could pull a Dumerville, get mad, and take less money. But thats on him IMO, I think he is better than that though.

BigDaddyBronco
10-22-2013, 08:34 AM
It's hard to say with these guys. Ego seems to drive most of them. Which is understandible, without confindence in yourself it's hard to be a good CB. That said, Champ isn't worth $10 mil. The big problem is that Champ might not be willing to take less money or have a reduced role (say 4th CB or a move to safety). I love the guy, but if he can't play at a high level than you have to move on.

Joel
10-22-2013, 11:16 AM
Whoa, ya'll, I was just looking for a health update since I couldn't find any, not trying to get lynched for another discussion about Champ playing safety (Zam's not even around to draw some of the fire for me.) I don't know how literally Champ meant it when he said he didn't the pain would ever go away (think it was an interview after the Cowboys game,) but if this ends his season I can't help wondering whether we or anyone will have to worry about where to play or how much to pay him next year. Age doesn't just reduce speed: It also reduces durability and resilience; injuries happen more, and take longer to heal.

Just to be clear: I'm not arguing Champ should retire; I'm just worried he may.


He had the same injury that Le'Veon Bell had. Bell was able to return after 8 weeks (I think). So best case, he may be back for the playoffs, although I'm not sure we want a rusty 35 year old CB starting in the playoffs.
Good example of what I mean: Le'Veon Bell's 21; Champ's 35. If it took 8 weeks for a 21 year old to recuperate, it'll probably take a 35 year old longer. Assuming their injury was equal in severity as well as type.

Ravage!!!
10-22-2013, 11:18 AM
I've been a huge Champ defender, and KNOW he won't move to safety.... it's time for us to move on from Champ. NO, I do N OT think that he's going to take a HUGE "home discount." This is their career, they play the game first for Money, then because they love it. Even if they love it, they play for the money. If we feel that a team will only pay Champ a 'couple million'.. then we would be asking Champ to take an 80% discount to stay in Denver. I don't know of ANY Player that has taken an 80% discount to stay with the same team.

I've loved Champ here, but I can see that it is time to say goodbye.

claymore
10-22-2013, 11:25 AM
I've been a huge Champ defender, and KNOW he won't move to safety.... it's time for us to move on from Champ. NO, I do N OT think that he's going to take a HUGE "home discount." This is their career, they play the game first for Money, then because they love it. Even if they love it, they play for the money. If we feel that a team will only pay Champ a 'couple million'.. then we would be asking Champ to take an 80% discount to stay in Denver. I don't know of ANY Player that has taken an 80% discount to stay with the same team.

I've loved Champ here, but I can see that it is time to say goodbye.
I hope he takes the discount. In the days of FA, Denver has been very good to him. He can still play, but not on an island. And thats where we the money is.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-22-2013, 11:27 AM
I've been a huge Champ defender, and KNOW he won't move to safety.... it's time for us to move on from Champ. NO, I do N OT think that he's going to take a HUGE "home discount." This is their career, they play the game first for Money, then because they love it. Even if they love it, they play for the money. If we feel that a team will only pay Champ a 'couple million'.. then we would be asking Champ to take an 80% discount to stay in Denver. I don't know of ANY Player that has taken an 80% discount to stay with the same team.

I've loved Champ here, but I can see that it is time to say goodbye.

I think you're right. Teams can only afford to pay a handful of guys top flight salaries. You can't be paying a guy $7-10 million per year because of who he use to be. The reality is next year Champ will be a 36 year old defensive back. We don't know what he will be next year. I would be fine paying him $4 million for a couple more years, but not $10. There's no way he should be the second highest paid guy on the team anymore. Are we willing to sacrifice DT next year to keep Champ? Absolutely not...

Ravage!!!
10-22-2013, 11:28 AM
I hope he takes the discount. In the days of FA, Denver has been very good to him. He can still play, but not on an island. And thats where we the money is.

Agreed. But can anyone think of a player that stuck with the same team after taking THAT kind of discount? Normally, if a player is taking that kind of discount, he does it with a different team. Doesn't even have to be "bad blood" between the player and the FO, but when a player takes a HUGE discount, they end up in a different locker room. Obviously, there are always exceptions to the rule and Champ very well could end up being that exception. But it's just not likely.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-22-2013, 11:29 AM
If we wouldn't keep Elvis at his rate, there's no way we keep Champ at that price next year, especially after missing most of the season.

Joel
10-22-2013, 11:30 AM
I figured Webster was a guy with raw tools who would need time to grow into being a good pick.

He apparently needs very little time at all. Aggressive, good speed, excellent nose for the ball, good tackler, hits hard, quick feet... what's not to like? He and Harris are both great out there. Whatever else we've done, we know what we like in corners, and it's working for us. With Nacho at safety our defensive backfield is looking more and more quality.
I was thinking the same, but it wasn't long before I started wishing we'd replace Tony Carter with Webster; fortunately, we have. I'm OK with Carter at dime unless we're facing a LOT of good receivers.


We just need to collapse the pocket more often so they look better. Von: you're up.

~G
Yeah, we gotta find a way to get there with just four, five max. Our DBs are fantastic (though I'm still not sold on Moore,) but nobody can cover everybody for 10 seconds. Our front four is good enough against mediocre lines and/or QBs, but not the best. After Sunday I'm wondering if we should stay in press coverage, because our CBs are good enough to do it, and I suspect Indy jamming all night is why Manning didn't just make lots of hot reads against the blitz (and when he did, it was usually incomplete.) Then again, MOST teams get called for PI or illegal contact if they're bumping and running near the line as a ball arrives.

Joel
10-22-2013, 11:41 AM
Agreed. But can anyone think of a player that stuck with the same team after taking THAT kind of discount? Normally, if a player is taking that kind of discount, he does it with a different team. Doesn't even have to be "bad blood" between the player and the FO, but when a player takes a HUGE discount, they end up in a different locker room. Obviously, there are always exceptions to the rule and Champ very well could end up being that exception. But it's just not likely.
Exceptions like Rod Smith, and Champ was one of the main reasons why, so he probably still remembers. Another big reason was age and injury had reduced Rod to less than he was when he got that big contract. He took less for the good of the team and to help himself a get a Ring by not having to do it by himself. Troy Aikman gave a ton of money back just one year into a contract he DID merit, just so Dallas could meet Emmitts demand to be the top paid NFL RB. Unless he's been VERY wasteful, Champ's no longer playing for money (one reason why, like PFM, I think he's more likely to return if we DON'T win a title than if we do.)

Denver Native (Carol)
10-22-2013, 02:12 PM
Expect Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey to miss one more game with that nagging injury to his left foot.

"He's going to be in a week-to-week type mode," Broncos coach John Fox said during his news conference Monday.

That is a significant explanation, considering Fox calls nearly every injured "day to day."

For instance, middle linebacker Wesley Woodyard has been "day to day" for the past two games he has missed with a neck injury. Expect Bailey to miss the game Sunday against his former team, the Washington Redskins, and former Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. Then Bailey gets another week to heal during the bye week.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24358364/broncos-champ-bailey-miss-at-least-one-game

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-22-2013, 02:23 PM
I wonder if what Champ experienced was scar tissue coming loose.

slim
10-22-2013, 04:08 PM
Whoa, ya'll, I was just looking for a health update since I couldn't find any, not trying to get lynched for another discussion about Champ playing safety (Zam's not even around to draw some of the fire for me.) I don't know how literally Champ meant it when he said he didn't the pain would ever go away (think it was an interview after the Cowboys game,) but if this ends his season I can't help wondering whether we or anyone will have to worry about where to play or how much to pay him next year. Age doesn't just reduce speed: It also reduces durability and resilience; injuries happen more, and take longer to heal.

Just to be clear: I'm not arguing Champ should retire; I'm just worried he may.


Good example of what I mean: Le'Veon Bell's 21; Champ's 35. If it took 8 weeks for a 21 year old to recuperate, it'll probably take a 35 year old longer. Assuming their injury was equal in severity as well as type.

Timing is everything. If you could have kept it in your pants for two years, everyone would have agreed with you.

Joel
10-26-2013, 05:45 PM
Timing is everything. If you could have kept it in your pants for two years, everyone would have agreed with you.
So I was ripped up one side and down the other for being ahead of the curve? ;) I don't recall saying he should go to safety immediately, just soon; after last years playoff loss "soon" became "2013." Here we are.

All things considered, I'm not interested in going there again, but am very interested in his current status and prognosis. Much of why I DID go there was because I had more confidence in our depth at CB than at safety, but Ihenacho has increased my faith in the latter while Carters rocky recent play has reduced my faith in the former. Webster helps, but there's a limit to how much we can expect from even the most talented rookie; it's somewhat reassuring that he passed Carter on the depth chart, but with Champ out that just makes him the nickel and puts Carter at dime.