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View Full Version : On the possibility of a year long suspension: "I can't sit here and say that this is never going to happen or I'm never going to do this — then I'd be lying."



iLands
10-15-2013, 07:21 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/hochman/ci_24310397/hochman-broncos-von-miller-still-has-plenty-prove

Asked about how another misstep could lead to a season-long suspension, Miller said: "I can't sit here and say that this is never going to happen or I'm never going to do this — then I'd be lying."

Here's the tape:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Miller-Remorseful-Ready-to-Return/f1e963da-779d-4c0d-828c-9e0cc83f20d0

I just read this today. Whoa! Anyway, excited to have Von back.

spikerman
10-15-2013, 07:23 PM
Oh, great.

Army Bronco
10-15-2013, 07:24 PM
He can say it, then make sure he behaves. That's the part of being a professional takes over.

topscribe
10-15-2013, 07:36 PM
I said much the same thing when I quit smoking: "There is always the chance
I may start again, but I'ill never quit again." It's been 12 years since I've
touched a tobacco product with the intention of using it myself.

Von is being honest. I'm not worried about him. He also said he discovered
just how important football is in his life.
.

GEM
10-15-2013, 07:55 PM
The first step in addiction rehabilitation is admitting you have a problem. This is opposite of when this started and he wouldn't take any responsibility. We may not ant to hear that he can't promise, but that's being honest. An addict can't promise sobriety beyond the day they are on, especially early in rehabilitation.

Hopefully he's come to value his career and realizes just how close he is to losing everything.

Davii
10-15-2013, 08:27 PM
I've got to agree with Top and Gem. I've been tobacco free for 18 months, but I can't promise I won't smoke again. I CAN promise I'll fight not to. Anyone who says it's not addictive is a fool, and I just feel Von is being honest with himself. I actually trust that he'll work not to do something foolish MORE than had he said "I promise yadda yadda".

Nomad
10-15-2013, 08:45 PM
While the tobacco addiction is a good comparison when it comes to addiction and the struggles that come with quitting, usage won't get you suspended from your job. Using banned substances in the NFL will, and Miller needs to do more than just say it won't happen. He needs to stay away from the situations that may tempt him as well. If that means he scales back his lifestyle, so be it, unless he's disciplined enough to fight the urge which is extremely hard when getting caught up in the moment. We'll see what's more important to him.....lifestyle or his career. I hope the best for him.

Broncolingus
10-15-2013, 08:55 PM
I don't disagree with or am putting down anyone's comments in this thread...

...I was, however, looking for something, perhaps a little more confident and self determined from Von.

I know that in many organizations (to include the military), "...I can't guarantee that it'll never happen again, sir (smoking pot, drunk on duty, etc.)...," isn't an answer that was ever acceptable or sent the right message.

...I think in this case, for the team and fans, it's absolutely 'It'll never happen again, folks.'

...JMO, though.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-15-2013, 09:15 PM
I don't disagree with or am putting down anyone's comments in this thread...

...I was, however, looking for something, perhaps a little more confident and self determined from Von.

I know that in many organizations (to include the military), "...I can't guarantee that it'll never happen again, sir (smoking pot, drunk on duty, etc.)...," isn't an answer that was ever acceptable or sent the right message.

...I think in this case, for the team and fans, it's absolutely 'It'll never happen again, folks.'

...JMO, though.

The problem with him saying now "It'll never happen again, folks", is, if it does happen again, very few would ever believe him again. I would imagine he has been getting treatment, counseling, etc, but if he has, it has been a very short time. I believe it will take a while for him to have the confidence, and really believe himself, before he can positively say that it will never happen again.

Joel
10-15-2013, 11:01 PM
The problem with him saying now "It'll never happen again, folks", is, if it does happen again, very few would ever believe him again. I would imagine he has been getting treatment, counseling, etc, but if he has, it has been a very short time. I believe it will take a while for him to have the confidence, and really believe himself, before he can positively say that it will never happen again.
Agreed. Taken literally, the problem is "I can't say it'll never happen again, because that would be lying" technically says it WILL happen: It's only a lie if he knowingly says something false, with intent to deceive.

I think it was just a clumsy misstatement of admitting the susceptibility to temptation that goes with psychological dependence. When I see a pot smoker get the shakes, fevers, nausea and loss of apetite, the DTs etc. I'll believe it's a physical addition rather than just the same psychological dependency that can make anything or everything a mental/emotional crutch. Until then, try getting high off WINNING, Mr. Miller. ;)

GEM
10-15-2013, 11:06 PM
I went through recovery. 13 years sober after 5 horrendous years of drug use. Von's response is typical for a recovering addict. I know we want to hear that he'll never do it again. That is not a realistic response from an addict. In fact, its a dangerous response. You don't just stop and its over, everything in your life changes or has to change for sobriety to take place. A young man with his lifestyle, temptation is everywhere. I really hope he is putting the work in and his response is what it should be. I'd be more worried if he was still denying wrongdoing. Hope the perspective of someone who successfully overcame addiction helps.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-15-2013, 11:15 PM
I went through recovery. 13 years sober after 5 horrendous years of drug use. Von's response is typical for a recovering addict. I know we want to hear that he'll never do it again. That is not a realistic response from an addict. In fact, its a dangerous response. You don't just stop and its over, everything in your life changes or has to change for sobriety to take place. A young man with his lifestyle, temptation is everywhere. I really hope he is putting the work in and his response is what it should be. I'd be more worried if he was still denying wrongdoing. Hope the perspective of someone who successfully overcame addiction helps.

I sincerely congratulate you GEM, and it is wonderful what you accomplished.

GEM
10-15-2013, 11:17 PM
Thank you, Carol. :)

ShaneFalco
10-15-2013, 11:18 PM
I'd be more worried if he was still denying wrongdoing.

Not trying to turn this into whatever, but to some people its the same as having a beer every night for dinner.

But congrats on sobriety.

Nomad
10-16-2013, 12:06 AM
Not trying to turn this into whatever, but to some people its the same as having a beer every night for dinner.

But congrats on sobriety.

I believe I understand what you are saying, but beer isn't a banned substance in the NFL.

NFL has zero tolerance, regardless of the trials that Miller has upon him to stay clean, they will not forgive his error of slipping up.

Joel
10-16-2013, 12:25 AM
Not trying to turn this into whatever, but to some people its the same as having a beer every night for dinner.
That's fine, but jeopardizing ones job and companys success for that beer with dinner is a cry for help. There's alcohol-free beer, or coke; if those aren't options, it's not just a beer with dinner.


But congrats on sobriety.
Agreed on that much; it surely isn't easy.

DenBronx
10-16-2013, 03:14 AM
If there is one thing I have ever learned, it is that actions speak louder than words. There is nothing he can say at this time to prove himself. He just has to do it.

TXBRONC
10-16-2013, 04:09 AM
I don't have a problem with what he said. It's more important what he does not what he says.

Northman
10-16-2013, 04:30 AM
While the tobacco addiction is a good comparison when it comes to addiction and the struggles that come with quitting, usage won't get you suspended from your job. Using banned substances in the NFL will, and Miller needs to do more than just say it won't happen. He needs to stay away from the situations that may tempt him as well. If that means he scales back his lifestyle, so be it, unless he's disciplined enough to fight the urge which is extremely hard when getting caught up in the moment. We'll see what's more important to him.....lifestyle or his career. I hope the best for him.

^This

Its a bit reaching when talking about lighting up a cig compared to smoking a joint and being out of a football for a year. He's being honest but it also seems to give him an excuse to continue to make poor choices. The whole idea is too learn from your mistakes and as Gem pointed out decide on what is best for your career and choices in life going forward. I really hope he he doesnt do something again to get suspended, as an organization you cant put out that kind of money/contract and have a guy only halfway fulfilling it. Talent or not he needs to be on the field when healthy so this comment concerns me a bit.

Broncolingus
10-16-2013, 08:49 AM
^This

Its a bit reaching when talking about lighting up a cig compared to smoking a joint and being out of a football for a year. He's being honest but it also seems to give him an excuse to continue to make poor choices. The whole idea is too learn from your mistakes and as Gem pointed out decide on what is best for your career and choices in life going forward. I really hope he he doesnt do something again to get suspended, as an organization you cant put out that kind of money/contract and have a guy only halfway fulfilling it. Talent or not he needs to be on the field when healthy so this comment concerns me a bit.

I agree...

As I said, I understand we're all human and make mistakes - to me, that's a given. ...but I just don't see potentially leaving an 'out' by not saying it may happen again, just because it might.

Bottom line, he has chosen a job and profession that does not condone or allow drug usage - as many of us do and have - and therefore he makes a commitment and promise to his teammates and yes, I also think to the fans who pay to see him play, that he won't (and can't) make those choices and abide by the rules...it's a black and white choice.

...if he feels it might happen again, or he want's to dope-out constantly say somebody like Ricky Williams, that's his choice, but he'll just need to find another profession where that's allowed.

I didn't mention this earlier, but I also as equally disappointed with measures to cheat the test as I am with the dope-out. In my opinion, that shows it's more of a whole character issue rather than just someone who got caught blazing up with an occasional joint.

...as always, JMO.


More importantly, congrats and well done below, Gem!!!


I went through recovery. 13 years sober after 5 horrendous years of drug use. Von's response is typical for a recovering addict. I know we want to hear that he'll never do it again. That is not a realistic response from an addict. In fact, its a dangerous response. You don't just stop and its over, everything in your life changes or has to change for sobriety to take place. A young man with his lifestyle, temptation is everywhere. I really hope he is putting the work in and his response is what it should be. I'd be more worried if he was still denying wrongdoing. Hope the perspective of someone who successfully overcame addiction helps.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-16-2013, 09:57 AM
Weekly, Altitude has a program called "Pro Football:Altitude Sports Summit". On this program is Scott Hastings, Victor Rogers, Eddie Mac, and Dave Logan. Each week, it is original on Tuesday, and then rerun the rest of the week. I watched it last night (Logan was not there). The subject came up in regards to Von saying what he said. Both Victor and Eddie Mac said they thought Von should have said it will never happen again. Scott said that he disagreed with both of them, because he has alcoholics in his family, and part of the treatment process is that each day when they get up, they are to say "I will not have a drink today". You take it one day at a time. After Scott got done, Eddie Mac said that, with what Von said, he is now admitting that he has a problem, which he had not done before, and it is very important for him to realize, and admit that.

GEM
10-16-2013, 09:59 AM
He can't say what fans want to hear. It goes against every treatment plan out there in the world today.

You might not like it, but you should respect it. It shows a lot more growth than many are giving him credit for.

It's easy to get upset because he's not, but honestly, when you've never gone through addiction or recovery, you really don't know just how deep it goes. Words mean something. It really is one day at a time, that's all you have. I am going to control myself for this one day. I can't control a week from now. And when you control yourself for one day, it turns into one week, then into one month, then one year. But it's always one day at a time.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-16-2013, 10:14 AM
He can't say what fans want to hear. It goes against every treatment plan out there in the world today.

You might not like it, but you should respect it. It shows a lot more growth than many are giving him credit for.

It's easy to get upset because he's not, but honestly, when you've never gone through addiction or recovery, you really don't know just how deep it goes. Words mean something. It really is one day at a time, that's all you have. I am going to control myself for this one day. I can't control a week from now. And when you control yourself for one day, it turns into one week, then into one month, then one year. But it's always one day at a time.

I agree with what you're saying, but he also said he didn't have a problem, but just needed to make better choices. When a person is in recovery they don't deny they have a problem.

LTC Pain
10-16-2013, 10:26 AM
Miller owes me nothing as a fan. But as a human who has screwed up and hurt other people myself, I'd expect Von to play like his tail is on fire against the Colts.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-16-2013, 10:44 AM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. — Von Miller didn't profess to be a changed man and didn't promise he would never mess up again.

But on his first day back at work after serving a six-game suspension, Miller did vow to earn back the trust of his teammates and fans of the Denver Broncos through his actions on and off the field.

"All I can ask is that everybody judge me on my actions going forward, and I can gain everybody's trust back that way," Miller said Monday. "Trust is huge. I can't sit here and say this isn't going to happen, or this is going to happen, or all that. All I can do is take it one day at a time and earn everybody's trust back, one day at a time."

rest - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2013/10/14/broncos-von-miller/2983477/

Denver Native (Carol)
10-16-2013, 10:51 AM
He can't say what fans want to hear. It goes against every treatment plan out there in the world today.

You might not like it, but you should respect it. It shows a lot more growth than many are giving him credit for.

It's easy to get upset because he's not, but honestly, when you've never gone through addiction or recovery, you really don't know just how deep it goes. Words mean something. It really is one day at a time, that's all you have. I am going to control myself for this one day. I can't control a week from now. And when you control yourself for one day, it turns into one week, then into one month, then one year. But it's always one day at a time.

And that is what is important about your posts. You went thru an addiction, so you KNOW what it is like.

BigDaddyBronco
10-16-2013, 10:58 AM
I don't know what Von is actually addicted to or what he is struggling against. But if it's just pot and not anything like meth or coke than he can quit anytime he wants to. Pot is not physically addictive like alchohol, nicotine, perscription drugs, narcotics, etc. It's a mental thing and really comes down to making a decision to not get high anymore. Lots of people do it, usually due to a job that has drug testing. It's not that big of a deal if you are motivated to quit.

CoachChaz
10-16-2013, 10:59 AM
Addiction doesnt care if something is a banned substance or not. It is a psychological dependency that clouds judgement and routine. Yes, it's easy for someone that has not dealt with addiction to sit there and say it's as simple as understanding that a cigarette wont get you banned...but a joint will. but to the addict, it's not even close to being that easy. My guess is those that feel that way have likely had the advantage of never being addicted to anything. That's great...but it doesnt alow an understanding of the situation. Many, many people have been faced with losing things much more important than football if they gave into their addiction and many of them have failed.

Thnikkaman
10-16-2013, 10:59 AM
No matter what you do, where you come from, how much money you make, you are only human. We all will do our best to become better people, or die trying.

CoachChaz
10-16-2013, 10:59 AM
I don't know what Von is actually addicted to or what he is struggling against. But if it's just pot and not anything like meth or coke than he can quit anytime he wants to. Pot is not physically addictive like alchohol, nicotine, perscription drugs, narcotics, etc. It's a mental thing and really comes down to making a decision to not get high anymore. Lots of people do it, usually due to a job that has drug testing. It's not that big of a deal if you are motivated to quit.

I respectfully disagree

TXBRONC
10-16-2013, 11:04 AM
Weekly, Altitude has a program called "Pro Football:Altitude Sports Summit". On this program is Scott Hastings, Victor Rogers, Eddie Mac, and Dave Logan. Each week, it is original on Tuesday, and then rerun the rest of the week. I watched it last night (Logan was not there). The subject came up in regards to Von saying what he said. Both Victor and Eddie Mac said they thought Von should have said it will never happen again. Scott said that he disagreed with both of them, because he has alcoholics in his family, and part of the treatment process is that each day when they get up, they are to say "I will not have a drink today". You take it one day at a time. After Scott got done, Eddie Mac said that, with what Von said, he is now admitting that he has a problem, which he had not done before, and it is very important for him to realize, and admit that.

My father is an alcoholic who has been in recovery for 30 years this is something he faces everyday. So ultimately it's more important what does or does not do than what he says.

GEM
10-16-2013, 11:09 AM
Sorry BBD, you're wrong.

With weed and any drug, it's a change of lifestyle. He can't hang out with the same people, he can't hang out in the same places, it's a complete life change in order to stay clean. Just because it's psychological, instead of physical, doesn't mean it's any easier to change. Especially if he really is 3-4 years or more into it. You can't hang out with the guys that you smoked with and stay clean. It doesn't work.

So for pot, while the actual drug may be easier to get off, the lifestyle that he has surrounded himself is the biggest change. Lifestyle seems to be pretty integral to these young men. They like the scene, they like the friends, they like the hangouts...and he can't have that....and stay clean.

If it were really that easy, why wouldn't he have given it up already.

CoachChaz
10-16-2013, 11:12 AM
Sorry BBD, you're wrong.

With weed and any drug, it's a change of lifestyle. He can't hang out with the same people, he can't hang out in the same places, it's a complete life change in order to stay clean. Just because it's psychological, instead of physical, doesn't mean it's any easier to change. Especially if he really is 3-4 years or more into it. You can't hang out with the guys that you smoked with and stay clean. It doesn't work.

So for pot, while the actual drug may be easier to get off, the lifestyle that he has surrounded himself is the biggest change. Lifestyle seems to be pretty integral to these young men. They like the scene, they like the friends, they like the hangouts...and he can't have that....and stay clean.

The added part to this is the psychological routine. Many people have a rough day at work and go home and have a glass of wine to relax. What would happen if they didnt have that wine? Some people have a cigarette to calm down when faced with stress? People deal with different daily situations in different ways. Most of them are legal...many are not. So, if Von was one of many that used marijuana to relax or relieve stress, he is now faced with finding a completely different routine. All we can do for his sake and the sake of the team is hope he finds that alternate outlet and that it works

Northman
10-16-2013, 11:16 AM
He can't say what fans want to hear. It goes against every treatment plan out there in the world today.

You might not like it, but you should respect it. It shows a lot more growth than many are giving him credit for.

It's easy to get upset because he's not, but honestly, when you've never gone through addiction or recovery, you really don't know just how deep it goes. Words mean something. It really is one day at a time, that's all you have. I am going to control myself for this one day. I can't control a week from now. And when you control yourself for one day, it turns into one week, then into one month, then one year. But it's always one day at a time.

While i have not battle addiction i did lose a parent to it so ive seen what it can do and all i can say to this is you really have to look at it from a business standpoint. We cant afford to pay a guy who has a serious addiction to drugs. We just cant. If Von has a serious drug problem the most important thing for him to do is get the necessary help he needs. And if that means not playing football for the Broncos than im fine with that. Its great that he is being honest but if im his employer i might be saying to him take the rest of the year off and get the help you need if you think that it might pose a problem at all going forward. For me right now when it comes to Von is if its THAT serious than he needs to step away from football and get the necessary help. If its just "i like to smoke weed and dont care about anyone who disagrees" than i have a problem with that.

GEM
10-16-2013, 11:18 AM
While i have not battle addiction i did lose a parent to it so ive seen what it can do and all i can say to this is you really have to look at it from a business standpoint. We cant afford to pay a guy who has a serious addiction to drugs. We just cant. If Von has a serious drug problem the most important thing for him to do is get the necessary help he needs. And if that means not playing football for the Broncos than im fine with that. Its great that he is being honest but if im his employer i might be saying to him take the rest of the year off and get the help you need if you think that it might pose a problem at all going forward. For me right now when it comes to Von is if its THAT serious than he needs to step away from football and get the necessary help. If its just "i like to smoke weed and dont care about anyone who disagrees" than i have a problem with that.

Then cut him or trade him, because this is the best he can give you. You weigh it out and figure out if what he can give is enough for you to keep the investment.

wayninja
10-16-2013, 11:20 AM
People (in the media, and some average fans) are just looking for platitudes from him. It really doesn't hurt him any to simply say "I won't do it again".

We all know in our hearts that this simply may not be true, we just want to hear him have conviction about his willingness to beat his addiction. It's not like him NOT saying it gives him a pass to do it again.

Either way, I don't really care what he says, I'm only interested in what he does. If he does this again, nothing he said in the past, nor in the future will really hold much weight for me.

Northman
10-16-2013, 11:21 AM
Then cut him or trade him, because this is the best he can give you. You weigh it out and figure out if what he can give is enough for you to keep the investment.

Certainly options i personally would look into if im Fox and Elway.

CoachChaz
10-16-2013, 11:22 AM
While i have not battle addiction i did lose a parent to it so ive seen what it can do and all i can say to this is you really have to look at it from a business standpoint. We cant afford to pay a guy who has a serious addiction to drugs. We just cant. If Von has a serious drug problem the most important thing for him to do is get the necessary help he needs. And if that means not playing football for the Broncos than im fine with that. Its great that he is being honest but if im his employer i might be saying to him take the rest of the year off and get the help you need if you think that it might pose a problem at all going forward. For me right now when it comes to Von is if its THAT serious than he needs to step away from football and get the necessary help. If its just "i like to smoke weed and dont care about anyone who disagrees" than i have a problem with that.

I think watching it and experiencing it are two different things...with all due respect.

My brother was a meth addict for 15 years and despite my own addiction to tobacco and alcohol, I could only relate to his addiction on certain levels.

GEM
10-16-2013, 11:25 AM
People (in the media, and some average fans) are just looking for platitudes from him. It really doesn't hurt him any to simply say "I won't do it again".

We all know in our hearts that this simply may not be true, we just want to hear him have conviction about his willingness to beat his addiction. It's not like him NOT saying it gives him a pass to do it again.

Either way, I don't really care what he says, I'm only interested in what he does. If he does this again, nothing he said in the past, nor in the future will really hold much weight for me.

Doesn't work that way. Read up on the 12 steps of a recovery program. You can't lie to yourself and to the people around you. That's just selfish of the fans to expect that. You can't wrap your addiction in a pretty box, tie a bow on it and put it away. It can happen again at any time. It can happen again after 20 years of sobriety.

Northman
10-16-2013, 11:26 AM
I think watching it and experiencing it are two different things...with all due respect.

My brother was a meth addict for 15 years and despite my own addiction to tobacco and alcohol, I could only relate to his addiction on certain levels.

But thats why i said you have to look at it from a business standpoint. I dont know what Fox and company have set up in terms of his rehab or help, etc. But my general point is you have to weight what is most important in his life, his "life" or "football". As with my father alcohol took his life so if the addiction is serious enough than the most important thing for Von to do is get himself better. But from a business standpoint its not suitable to keep a guy on the roster who isnt full filling the contract. It sucks obviously for both parties but if the addiction is that serious than i think the most important thing for Von to do is get better. IMO

GEM
10-16-2013, 11:26 AM
Certainly options i personally would look into if im Fox and Elway.

I'm sure they are. They have a business to run, that doesn't stop because one cog in the wheel has personal issues.

I will tell you one thing....if they stand by his side, if he stays sober, he'll be fiercely loyal to them.

wayninja
10-16-2013, 11:28 AM
Doesn't work that way. Read up on the 12 steps of a recovery program. You can't lie to yourself and to the people around you. That's just selfish of the fans to expect that. You can't wrap your addiction in a pretty box, tie a bow on it and put it away. It can happen again at any time. It can happen again after 20 years of sobriety.

But that's true either way. He could say it or not say it and still recidivate. That doesn't make it a lie, you can't lie about what you believe, even if you fail to achieve it.

And like I said, fans are looking for conviction. He want us to trust him, but he has to let us know that he can trust himself a bit. This isn't your typical addiction case where the victim battles his demons in private (or with his family). Von is a public figure. That might be unfair, but it is what it is.

Regardless, it makes no difference to me, I'm just trying to explain why there is this expectation of him.

TXBRONC
10-16-2013, 11:31 AM
While i have not battle addiction i did lose a parent to it so ive seen what it can do and all i can say to this is you really have to look at it from a business standpoint. We cant afford to pay a guy who has a serious addiction to drugs. We just cant. If Von has a serious drug problem the most important thing for him to do is get the necessary help he needs. And if that means not playing football for the Broncos than im fine with that. Its great that he is being honest but if im his employer i might be saying to him take the rest of the year off and get the help you need if you think that it might pose a problem at all going forward. For me right now when it comes to Von is if its THAT serious than he needs to step away from football and get the necessary help. If its just "i like to smoke weed and dont care about anyone who disagrees" than i have a problem with that.

North even a year from now it would still be the right thing for him to say. I can't say he's not recovery program and Elway the organization will help the help he needs. I bet they a network for getting their employees into recovery programs.

Thnikkaman
10-16-2013, 11:31 AM
But thats why i said you have to look at it from a business standpoint. I dont know what Fox and company have set up in terms of his rehab or help, etc. But my general point is you have to weight what is most important in his life, his "life" or "football". As with my father alcohol took his life so if the addiction is serious enough than the most important thing for Von to do is get himself better. But from a business standpoint its not suitable to keep a guy on the roster who isnt full filling the contract. It sucks obviously for both parties but if the addiction is that serious than i think the most important thing for Von to do is get better. IMO

I believe that your opinion strongly comes from your own personal experience losing someone from addiction, and that your natural reaction is to avoid and ignore the issue.

I don't know if it's been said that Von was seeking counseling and treatment of his personal issues while he was suspended, but if he is being a smart player doing all he can to stay in the professional position he has been able to raise himself up to, he has kept in good communication with Broncos' brass. I will chose to remain optimistic that the Broncos will support Von as long as he maintains good channels of communication with the front office with what he is dealing with personally.

GEM
10-16-2013, 11:32 AM
But that's true either way. And like I said, fans are looking for conviction. He want us to trust him, but he has to let us know that he can trust himself a bit. This isn't your typical addiction case where the victim battles his demons in private (or with his family). Von is a public figure. That might be unfair, but it is what it is.

Regardless, it makes no difference to me, I'm just trying to explain why there is this expectation of him.

I understand the want for him to say that, I also understand it's just something you can't give if you are truly in the middle of recovery.

I don't care what he says....I care about what he does. I want to SEE that he's changing. I hope the Broncos give him a chance to prove it. I hope he's hit his bottom and all there is from here is up. But that isn't going to be shown to me through words. It's all about action now.

TXBRONC
10-16-2013, 11:34 AM
I'm sure they are. They have a business to run, that doesn't stop because one cog in the wheel has personal issues.

I will tell you one thing....if they stand by his side, if he stays sober, he'll be fiercely loyal to them.

Lots of big organization have networks for helping their employees with these kinds of issue.

GEM
10-16-2013, 11:34 AM
North even a year from now it would still be the right thing for him to say. I can't say he's not recovery program and Elway the organization will help the help he needs. I bet they a network for getting their employees into recovery programs.

They put the coach and the GM into recovery programs, I would win a $100 bet to say if they took those steps for front office guys, they've done the same or more with Von.

TXBRONC
10-16-2013, 11:37 AM
They put the coach and the GM into recovery programs, I would win a $100 bet to say if they took those steps for front office guys, they've done the same or more with Von.

It's cheaper than having to let them go.

Northman
10-16-2013, 11:39 AM
I believe that your opinion strongly comes from your own personal experience losing someone from addiction, and that your natural reaction is to avoid and ignore the issue.

.

I dont know if im trying to avoid or ignore the issue. Quite the contrary really unless i misunderstood what you meant here. For me, the most important thing for him is too get help. If as Coach says its a routine/lifestyle problem that is enabling him than really playing football and continuing to live that lifestyle would be doing him a disservice. I was relatively young when my father died so i cant remember if my mom ever mentioned him trying to get help or being in programs. I know they divorced because of the addiction but i think if someone is in true need of help that you dont enable them to have access to that lifestyle any longer. While Von wont be toking up on the field if he isnt in a rehab facility than he still has access to his routine and previous lifestyle. I just think at this stage if it has gotten to this point and Von really has a problem with that substance than maybe being in the spotlight is not the best thing for him.

Thnikkaman
10-16-2013, 12:01 PM
I dont know if im trying to avoid or ignore the issue. Quite the contrary really unless i misunderstood what you meant here. For me, the most important thing for him is too get help. If as Coach says its a routine/lifestyle problem that is enabling him than really playing football and continuing to live that lifestyle would be doing him a disservice. I was relatively young when my father died so i cant remember if my mom ever mentioned him trying to get help or being in programs. I know they divorced because of the addiction but i think if someone is in true need of help that you dont enable them to have access to that lifestyle any longer. While Von wont be toking up on the field if he isnt in a rehab facility than he still has access to his routine and previous lifestyle. I just think at this stage if it has gotten to this point and Von really has a problem with that substance than maybe being in the spotlight is not the best thing for him.

Thanks for the clarification from your standpoint. The thing for me is that in order to be helped, one has to want help. In my experience with family members that are dealing with addiction, they have shown me enough that they have no desire for help, and that they would rather shorten their lives depending on chemicals than be a part of my life. Von's words to me seem genuine enough that he wants, has asked for, and is getting the help that he needs. His actions on and off the field will be what we have from here on out to see if this is the case.

CoachChaz
10-16-2013, 12:05 PM
At the end of the day Von is giving us what I personally want from him. Honesty. He's giving us a human answer and if someone prefers him to lie just so that they feel better, then he doesnt need those people as friends or as fans.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-16-2013, 12:16 PM
The long-held belief that using marijuana isn’t physically addictive has proved false, according to research that found quitting marijuana can cause withdrawal symptoms.

The study, which ABC News reported was released Wednesday by the Australian journal PLOS ONE, found that the withdrawal symptoms can be severe enough to interfere with life functioning. People who tried to quit pot reported feeling moody, tense, anxious and nervous. It was also common for respondents to cite a loss of appetite, difficulty sitting still and insomnia.

Heavy users were most susceptible to finding difficulty quitting and struggling with worsened withdrawal symptoms. They were also more likely to relapse while trying to abstain.

rest - http://www.ibtimes.com/marijuana-addictive-causes-withdrawal-study-796751

CoachChaz
10-16-2013, 12:28 PM
From studies I've read marijuana is not as addictive as tobacco or alcohol or heavier drugs...but...each person is different. The scale that determines if something is a level 1 or level 2 addictive substance is based on a "out of 10" scenario. So, morphine might be a level 4, which menas 4 out of 10 people that try it become addictive. Marijuana is a level 1. Unfortunately, it appears Von is that 1 in this scenario.

Hawgdriver
10-16-2013, 12:35 PM
He can say it, then make sure he behaves. That's the part of being a professional takes over.

Talk is cheap.

GEM
10-16-2013, 12:38 PM
From studies I've read marijuana is not as addictive as tobacco or alcohol or heavier drugs...but...each person is different. The scale that determines if something is a level 1 or level 2 addictive substance is based on a "out of 10" scenario. So, morphine might be a level 4, which menas 4 out of 10 people that try it become addictive. Marijuana is a level 1. Unfortunately, it appears Von is that 1 in this scenario.

I think what you spoke about is what is addictive with pot. The surroundings, the routines, the friends.

Thnikkaman
10-16-2013, 12:59 PM
From studies I've read marijuana is not as addictive as tobacco or alcohol or heavier drugs...but...each person is different. The scale that determines if something is a level 1 or level 2 addictive substance is based on a "out of 10" scenario. So, morphine might be a level 4, which menas 4 out of 10 people that try it become addictive. Marijuana is a level 1. Unfortunately, it appears Von is that 1 in this scenario.

Do we know if it's the pot he's addicted to, molly, or something else? I don't necessarily think it's as important to determine what it is he's addicted to as that he works on his recovery.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-16-2013, 01:33 PM
from article:


"I definitely made mistakes, but I'm working hard to fix those mistakes. I can't, you know, relish on the past or anything, but I can sit here and say I'm working hard to be a better person, to be a better football player, to be a better teammate.''

"I learned you've got to slow down, I learned that traffic tickets and procrastination lead to some bigger things,'' Miller said. "I've had a lot of time to stable myself ... I've learned my mistakes can affect others. All I can do is take it one day at a time and be the best person and the best football player I can possibly be."

AND


Asked if he was concerned that another stumble in the league's substance-abuse program would result in a suspension of at least a year, Fox said he worried about all players in any "incidents."

"I think he understands that, you know, he made some errors and there are a lot of people here the help him, his teammates, coaching staff, people in the organization, we'll see where it goes,'' Fox said. "People in life make mistakes. We'll see where that goes.''

full article - http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9825764/von-miller-denver-broncos-returns-aims-regain-trust

Denver Native (Carol)
10-16-2013, 01:35 PM
from same article:


Following the league's announcement of his suspension in August, Miller was also arrested on an outstanding warrant for a missed court appearance and was stopped just days after that and cited for multiple traffic violations, including driving on a suspended license.

Miller did say he has tried to get those affairs in order as well.

"I think in the last 2-2½ months I definitely have had to mature a lot,'' Miller said. "There was definitely some stuff that I didn't see that I see now. I've taken strides to do that. I can't sit here and say I'm super mature and bad things won't happen; it's a constant struggle. I know if I can continue to take it one day at a time, I know I can get there.''

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9825764/von-miller-denver-broncos-returns-aims-regain-trust

claymore
10-16-2013, 01:46 PM
From studies I've read marijuana is not as addictive as tobacco or alcohol or heavier drugs...but...each person is different. The scale that determines if something is a level 1 or level 2 addictive substance is based on a "out of 10" scenario. So, morphine might be a level 4, which menas 4 out of 10 people that try it become addictive. Marijuana is a level 1. Unfortunately, it appears Von is that 1 in this scenario.

If Von doesnt quit, its because he doesnt want to. Asprin is probably more addictive than pot. I dont care if he quitr, I only care that he doesnt get caught.

CoachChaz
10-16-2013, 01:52 PM
If Von doesnt quit, its because he doesnt want to. Asprin is probably more addictive than pot. I dont care if he quitr, I only care that he doesnt get caught.

That's the issue for another thread. At the end of the day, we're talking about pot. Maybe the one "drug" that least affects a person's dialy life. Unfortunately, the NFL has an issue with it

claymore
10-16-2013, 02:01 PM
That's the issue for another thread. At the end of the day, we're talking about pot. Maybe the one "drug" that least affects a person's dialy life. Unfortunately, the NFL has an issue with it

I agree. But the belief that this drug is actually addictive is ridiculous. Internet addiction is far worse than pot addiction. Worst case scenario, the biggest pot head on the planet quits smoking... He will be mildly grouchy for a week. As opposed to an alcoholic who's blood itches, and they cant sleep for months. That is an addiction, ciggaretts and nicotine are addictions. Pot is just an inconvienance.

wayninja
10-16-2013, 02:07 PM
Maybe I missed it, but are we all 100% positive that Pot is the issue? He scammed his test, so do we even know what this is about?

silkamilkamonico
10-16-2013, 03:49 PM
Maybe I missed it, but are we all 100% positive that Pot is the issue? He scammed his test, so do we even know what this is about?

if he has an addiction issue with something like molly or coke or worse than this is a major problem.

if hes speaking in terms of marijuana, thats a habitual issue he needs to work through, not an addiction imo.

wayninja
10-16-2013, 03:53 PM
if he has an addiction issue with something like molly or coke or worse than this is a major problem.

if hes speaking in terms of marijuana, thats a habitual issue he needs to work through, not an addiction imo.

I can agree with that, I just see so many talking about Pot like that it is definitely it, that I must have missed some detail somewhere.

I would be very surprised at this point if it was just Pot. I can understand not being confident in saying that you will beat your addiction if there is an actual addiction there. But pot? C'mon. Be an adult.

Slick
10-16-2013, 03:54 PM
Some good posts in this thread. I would add some personal experience with this issue, but I'm not sure about forum rules so I'll refrain for now.

I agree with BDB's post but at the same time, I also agree with what GEM and Coach have said here as well.

BigDaddyBronco
10-16-2013, 04:00 PM
Sorry BBD, you're wrong.

With weed and any drug, it's a change of lifestyle. He can't hang out with the same people, he can't hang out in the same places, it's a complete life change in order to stay clean. Just because it's psychological, instead of physical, doesn't mean it's any easier to change. Especially if he really is 3-4 years or more into it. You can't hang out with the guys that you smoked with and stay clean. It doesn't work.

So for pot, while the actual drug may be easier to get off, the lifestyle that he has surrounded himself is the biggest change. Lifestyle seems to be pretty integral to these young men. They like the scene, they like the friends, they like the hangouts...and he can't have that....and stay clean.

If it were really that easy, why wouldn't he have given it up already.
I smoked weed almost everyday for 5 years and dropped it immediately when I knew I was going to get drug tested for a career. I had cravings for years after that, but it was no big deal.

My lifestyle didn't change significantly as my main partner in crime was my wife. The lifestyle change from college to a career was the big change. If you have no motivation for a change, then it's hard to get out of a rut.

CoachChaz
10-16-2013, 04:28 PM
I smoked weed almost everyday for 5 years and dropped it immediately when I knew I was going to get drug tested for a career. I had cravings for years after that, but it was no big deal.

My lifestyle didn't change significantly as my main partner in crime was my wife. The lifestyle change from college to a career was the big change. If you have no motivation for a change, then it's hard to get out of a rut.

The difference is that's you. Not every person handles the addiction or cravings the same. Like I said, I have a brother that did meth for 15 years and one day out of the blue, he decided he was done and hasnt touched it since. However...he's missed out on 2 jobs because he cant quit the pot use. In his words, the pot and cigarettes are more addictive than the meth was

BigDaddyBronco
10-16-2013, 04:37 PM
The difference is that's you. Not every person handles the addiction or cravings the same. Like I said, I have a brother that did meth for 15 years and one day out of the blue, he decided he was done and hasnt touched it since. However...he's missed out on 2 jobs because he cant quit the pot use. In his words, the pot and cigarettes are more addictive than the meth was

My friend when he got off meth just decided to do it one day, but he has had hell with nicotine and alcohol. My mother in law chose crack and other drugs over her kids and has been a junkie for 30+ years, so yea it is different for everyone. I just witnessed the hard core drug use and never felt pot was anywhere near that level of addiction. Now I do agree that it might be harder to get out of the loser, pot-head lifesytle than other drugs since you can function and hold down a job for years as a pot head and support your habit, but a crack head has a hard time being a functioning member of society.

Broncolingus
10-16-2013, 05:02 PM
This is actually a really good thread to read...seriously.

...great viewpoints on all sides of the issue and everyone is talking respectfully.

Maybe we all should just be Congress...

...well, on second thought, maybe we'll need to vote on including Clay :D

Nomad
10-16-2013, 06:52 PM
I agree...

As I said, I understand we're all human and make mistakes - to me, that's a given. ...but I just don't see potentially leaving an 'out' by not saying it may happen again, just because it might.

Bottom line, he has chosen a job and profession that does not condone or allow drug usage - as many of us do and have - and therefore he makes a commitment and promise to his teammates and yes, I also think to the fans who pay to see him play, that he won't (and can't) make those choices and abide by the rules...it's a black and white choice.

...if he feels it might happen again, or he want's to dope-out constantly say somebody like Ricky Williams, that's his choice, but he'll just need to find another profession where that's allowed.

I didn't mention this earlier, but I also as equally disappointed with measures to cheat the test as I am with the dope-out. In my opinion, that shows it's more of a whole character issue rather than just someone who got caught blazing up with an occasional joint.

...as always, JMO.


More importantly, congrats and well done below, Gem!!!

Agreed, Linguis! So we should have a pity party for his addiction, bottom line is, he chose this career path and there's a team relying on him and he needs to clean up or he won't play football. The very first time he lite up he knew it was wrong, but he did it anyway especially knowing the career path is was choosing. People with addictions know what they are getting into, we all know someone or some people who have gone through it or is going through it. I don't need to hear the stories of how I have not seen it.

And regardless how butthurt some of you are because pot isn't accepted and it's so called not as harmful as alcohol or other drugs and it's glorified, it's still a banned substance. If the NFL pulls the ban, then this is a non issue because no one will gives a shit, just get out on the field.

ShaneFalco
10-16-2013, 07:17 PM
That's the issue for another thread. At the end of the day, we're talking about pot. Maybe the one "drug" that least affects a person's dialy life. Unfortunately, the NFL has an issue with it

This may come off as harsh, but its such a joke to me. We got people talking like Von is sticking a needle in his arm.

And Von will not be the last pro athlete to test positive for it.

Nomad
10-16-2013, 07:24 PM
This may come off as harsh, but its such a joke to me. We got people talking like Von is sticking a needle in his arm.

Weed is a banned substance in the NFL, Flaco! No way around it. Some of you seem not to understand there are rules implemented and must be followed, regardless of how much you disagree.

ShaneFalco
10-16-2013, 07:25 PM
I get it, but how many college and pro athletes have to test positive for it, before someone thinks, "Maybe we should change the rules a bit".

Nomad
10-16-2013, 07:33 PM
I get it, but how many college and pro athletes have to test positive for it, before someone thinks, "Maybe we should change the rules a bit".

Not sure.... you know I'm not against legalizing weed for people to enjoy, just like I enjoy my beer. Perhaps you can write the NFL and ask, and I'm sure weed would have to be legal in all states and accepted by the NFL even though it's legal. Until then, they have to stay clean.

wayninja
10-16-2013, 08:49 PM
This may come off as harsh, but its such a joke to me. We got people talking like Von is sticking a needle in his arm.


Well, again, how do we know he's not?

GEM
10-17-2013, 09:40 AM
I get it, but how many college and pro athletes have to test positive for it, before someone thinks, "Maybe we should change the rules a bit".

Maybe we should change the rules on drunk driving, so many people are doing it. You don't change rules just because so many people are breaking them. Bad analogy.

Davii
10-17-2013, 10:08 AM
Maybe we should change the rules on drunk driving, so many people are doing it. You don't change rules just because so many people are breaking them. Bad analogy.

If I start coming in late for work everyday will they change the work hours? That would be awesome.

Ravage!!!
10-17-2013, 10:13 AM
Yeah.. lets change the rules to fit the crime. That makes sense.

I think some are jumping on Von because they feel he's "making excuses" bfore they need to be made. He's setting the platform to fail.

I believe he is doing EXACTLY what his drug counselor is telling him to do....take responsibility. If he tries to tell people "its never going to happen"... THAT is a lie. That is a LIE because he has to CONSTANTLY tell himself that it ABSOLUTELY CAN happen at any moment if he lets his guard down. He HAS to believe, and KNOW, that it can and will happen if he doesn't fight it every day. So when he says "I can't promise it won't happen again..." that is exactly what his counselor wants to hear from him. I applaud him for showing that he's actually learning and taking the proper steps to beat the addiction.

powderaddict
10-17-2013, 10:25 AM
I really don't care what he says, I care what he does.

If he doesn't get in trouble again, then it's all well and good.

topscribe
10-17-2013, 10:29 AM
If I start coming in late for work everyday will they change the work hours? That would be awesome.
No, Davii, because you would just start coming in late for your new hours, too. lol
.

powderaddict
10-17-2013, 10:40 AM
And I'd like to point out not one of us really knows 100% what happened.

All we've heard are rumors. We don't really have any idea what the true facts are. I'm going to go with what I know. Von is back. He has a chance to right his career. If he doesn't, well, I'll be disappointed. But I'm hoping and expecting he does.

ShaneFalco
10-17-2013, 03:35 PM
Maybe we should change the rules on drunk driving, so many people are doing it. You don't change rules just because so many people are breaking them. Bad analogy.

totally different, but i dont want to derail thread

Davii
10-17-2013, 03:45 PM
totally different, but i dont want to derail thread

It's completely legal to show up late for work. So should employers just look the other way when employees do it? I mean, it's legal and people do it all the time, so why not?

For that matter, employees miss work all the time, so no employer should be allowed to write someone up or fire them for being late or missing work.

It's totally legal and isn't hurting anyone at all.

TXBRONC
10-17-2013, 04:02 PM
totally different, but i dont want to derail thread

No it's not it is the principal of the argument.

BigDaddyBronco
10-17-2013, 04:55 PM
Most businesses have personal conduct rules. I can get fired for using a cell phone when I'm driving a company vehicle, even if it legal in the area where I'm driving. It's just company policy.

Davii
10-17-2013, 05:24 PM
Most businesses have personal conduct rules. I can get fired for using a cell phone when I'm driving a company vehicle, even if it legal in the area where I'm driving. It's just company policy.

Come on BDB...... Everybody's doing it man.....

wayninja
10-17-2013, 05:39 PM
"I can't sit here and say that this is never going to happen or I'm never going to do this — then I'd be lying."

I guess what bothers me about this the most, is not that he won't declare that he will never do it again. It's that he's declaring that by saying he wont' do it again, he's lying. That means he WILL do it again.

I admit that I'm probably taking that a little too literally, and possibly a bit out of context, but that's the biggest criticism of this I can see. If he had said something like "I simply can't tell you what tomorrow holds" (which I think he did imply later) instead, I don't think it would be as big a deal. Not that it is a really big deal, but it was a poor way to phrase it.