Garrett considered letting Broncos score, decided to try for a stop

[DenBronx]

When Tony Romo threw an interception with 1:57 remaining and the Cowboys and Broncos tied 48-48 on Sunday, the Cowboys were probably going to lose no matter what. But would they have had a better chance if they had simply allowed the Broncos to score a touchdown, rather than keeping them out of the end zone long enough for the Broncos to run the clock down to two seconds remaining, call a timeout and kick the game-winning field goal as time expired?

Cowboys coach Jason Garrett says his team discussed the scenarios but ultimately decided to play defense, rather than allow the Broncos to score a touchdown with enough time left on the clock for the Cowboys to get the ball back and try to force overtime.

“You’re balancing the idea of getting a stop there,” Garrett said, via the Dallas Morning News. “If you get a stop there, they kick the field goal and you give yourself a much better chance to tie the football game coming back. You have no timeouts and all that, so you weight those out. We decided to try to make the stop on third down and they made it by about an inch.”

read full article here:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/07/garrett-considered-letting-broncos-score-decided-to-try-for-a-stop/

[BroncoWave]

It probably wouldn't have mattered. Peyton told Moreno not to score. I think he would have just given himself up at the one foot line.

[MOtorboat]

That's not too shocking. Kind of similar situation to Denver's Super Bowl win over Green Bay (even though they deny it, we all know what happened).

[DenBronx]

Garret didnt have a choice. This was the Broncos plan. Watch the Broncos press conferences with John Fox and Peyton Manning. Moreno could have easily scored but fell at the 1 yard line, we wernt stopped because it was designed.


Also, who did Manning get mad at during the press conference about 7:30 min into it? Some guy starts calling Manning Champ and then Manning gets pissed off saying he wasnt going to answer him if he does it again or something. That guy was rather odd. Anyone notice that???

[silkamilkamonico]

Little OT but I still can't get over the fact that Jerry Jones considered yesterday a "Moral Victory", and called Romo's game Elway-esque.

Elway won those type of games Jones, he didn't throw an interception on his final drive.

[DenBronx]

It probably wouldn't have mattered. Peyton told Moreno not to score. I think he would have just given himself up at the one foot line.


Dammit, my reply to this article took too long and you beat me to it.


We could have easily score the TD but that would have left them with about a minute and change to score.

[MasterShake]

That was some really great control by Moreno to not have the ball cross the plane but still get the first down.

[DenBronx]

Little OT but I still can't get over the fact that Jerry Jones considered yesterday a "Moral Victory", and called Romo's game Elway-esque.

Elway won those type of games Jones, he didn't throw an interception on his final drive.



True, Elway was always clutch.


But Romo still played damn good yesterday. I credit Danny Trevathan with making a play on this one though. However, still should have threw it to the check down which was Murray.

At some point, the Cowboys defense needs to make a stop, which they didnt. I dont think Romo was the reason they lost....you dont let a team hang 52 points on you and expect to win.

[DenBronx]

That was some really great control by Moreno to not have the ball cross the plane but still get the first down.

He actually wanted to score there. Great heads up on his part to fall down in the exact spot for the first.

[Slick]

That was some really great control by Moreno to not have the ball cross the plane but still get the first down.

Risky too. Like Wave said in another thread, well worth the risk. We still kick a field goal even if he doesn't make it.

[BroncoWave]

I don't even blame the Cowboys D all that much. We are averaging 46 a game. It's not like they let the Jags come in and drop a 50-burger on them. Not many defenses are good enough to slow this offense down. Especially indoors.

[BroncoWave]

Risky too. Like Wave said in another thread, well worth the risk. We still kick a field goal even if he doesn't make it.

Yeah, I feel like it's a chance we had to take. If you give them the ball back with over a minute left, I would not have liked our chances at stopping them from getting 7. And honestly, if he doesn't make it, I bet we go for it on 4th down. A 3 point lead DEFINITELY would not have been good enough.

[MOtorboat]

Garret didnt have a choice. This was the Broncos plan. Watch the Broncos press conferences with John Fox and Peyton Manning. Moreno could have easily scored but fell at the 1 yard line, we wernt stopped because it was designed.


Also, who did Manning get mad at during the press conference about 7:30 min into it? Some guy starts calling Manning Champ and then Manning gets pissed off saying he wasnt going to answer him if he does it again or something. That guy was rather odd. Anyone notice that???

No one's really sure. It wasn't him calling Manning Champ though, he said "you're playing like the elephant's eyebrows..."

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/557907-Manning-post-game

[Slick]

Yeah, I feel like it's a chance we had to take. If you give them the ball back with over a minute left, I would not have liked our chances at stopping them from getting 7. And honestly, if he doesn't make it, I bet we go for it on 4th down. A 3 point lead DEFINITELY would not have been good enough.

Tough to tell an offense to keep the pedal to the metal all game to then ask them to slow down and grind out clock. I was screaming at the TV " make them use all their timeouts!"

They really managed the clock masterfully there at the end of the game.

[DenBronx]

No one's really sure. It wasn't him calling Manning Champ though, he said "you're playing like the elephant's eyebrows..."

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/557907-Manning-post-game


It was hard to understand. Was going to bring this up last night but was too lazy.

If that's what he said that was a rather odd statement. Maybe this guy is just trying to get in the news. All of the other reporters were probablly thinking wtf is this guy on.

[Dapper Dan]

Moreno not going into the endzone was partially luck. Thankfully no one bumped him into the endzone. I still think Denver wins regardless, but you never know.

[DenBronx]

Moreno not going into the endzone was partially luck. Thankfully no one bumped him into the endzone. I still think Denver wins regardless, but you never know.

Why would anyone bump him? This was a called play and everyone on offense knew the call. Only a Cowboys player could have dragged him in but Moreno fell down before that.

[MOtorboat]

Why would anyone bump him? This was a called play and everyone on offense knew the call. Only a Cowboys player could have dragged him in but Moreno fell down before that.

I know it happened, maybe to the Giants...I remember a running back trying to down the ball on the one and a defensive back hitting him into the endzone not too long ago.

[DenBronx]

I know it happened, maybe to the Giants...I remember a running back trying to down the ball on the one and a defensive back hitting him into the endzone not too long ago.

Then that was poor execution on the Giants part. Bet the coach was pissed. Did they win that game? Still think we would have won if Moreno would have pounded it in but glad we didnt risk it.

[Dapper Dan]

Things happen during plays. There are a lot of moving parts. It's not always about execution.

I'm happy Moreno did a good job and nothing bad happened.

[wayninja]

Jerry Jones calling this a 'moral victor' and cutting his d coordinator 'a little slack' is the reason why the cowgirls are a joke for the last decade.

[Dapper Dan]

Why does Jerry Jones even talk?

[wayninja]

Why does Jerry Jones even talk?

Cialis makes you chatty?

[OrangeHoof]

They really managed the clock masterfully there at the end of the game.

Except for Julius Thomas going out of bounds. That was a rookie mistake.

Forced the Broncos to use another set of downs to waste all their timeouts.

[Ravage!!!]

Why would anyone bump him? This was a called play and everyone on offense knew the call. Only a Cowboys player could have dragged him in but Moreno fell down before that.

The cowboys SHOULD have dragged him in, and surprised they didn't make an effort to get him into the endzone. We've already seen a coach make the mistake once before this year by not letting a team score, and Dallas should have known better. I was glad to see Manning and Moreno on the same page, and NOT get into the endzone, but was hoping Moreno would get DOWN a bit faster..... but eh... it all worked out.

Our young Orange Julius made a mistake by running out of bounds with his catch and run.

[Joel]

That's not too shocking. Kind of similar situation to Denver's Super Bowl win over Green Bay (even though they deny it, we all know what happened).
I thought Holmgren and the team had said on the record they "let" us score (not like they slowed us down much on that drive in the first place.) Unless embarrrassed Favre regularly Romoed games even before Romo did, I can't imagine why saying they "let" us score is a dig at them rather than us in the first place. It implies they would've somehow magically been able to stop us taking the lead with 2nd and G at their 1 if they hadn't "let" the SB MVP follow a 17 yd run with a 1 yd TD. They didn't "let" us do jack: They couldn't stop us scoring, and we did stop them. Simple as that. Get a run game and stop throwing picks, Pack.


Except for Julius Thomas going out of bounds. That was a rookie mistake.

Forced the Broncos to use another set of downs to waste all their timeouts.
I thought of that at the time, but am not sure it's really fair. It was a sideline catch of a sideline route; I'm not sure it was possible to avoid his momentum carrying him out before he made it to the ground.

[Ravage!!!]

I thought of that at the time, but am not sure it's really fair. It was a sideline catch of a sideline route; I'm not sure it was possible to avoid his momentum carrying him out before he made it to the ground.

no.. he caught it and ran towards the sideline, obviously nearly taking it into the endzone. But a veteran, probalby would have known to get down before pushing for that extra yard and getting out of bounds. I'm betting next time, he knows better. It was a young mistake that almost put us in a tight spot.

[topscribe]

Why would anyone bump him? This was a called play and everyone on offense knew the call. Only a Cowboys player could have dragged him in but Moreno fell down before that.
Ever been in a corral with a bunch of cattle that wanted to stampede? Believe
it or not, I have. And, as a defensive end, I have been in the middle of a short
yardage run, such as what we're talking about. There's not much difference.

You get into the middle of that, and you don't know which way you're going,
except down. Yeah, I can see him getting bumped forward, backward,
sideways, or just plain down.
.

[topscribe]

Except for Julius Thomas going out of bounds. That was a rookie mistake.

Forced the Broncos to use another set of downs to waste all their timeouts.
Lol, I groaned so loudly my daughter looked at me and said, "You okay?"
.

[BroncoWave]

I'll happily trade those rookie mistakes from Thomas for the production he has given us. I think he has exceed all of our wildest expectations of him. I'm sure Manning has explained that situation to him and he won't make the same mistake again.

[topscribe]

I'll happily trade those rookie mistakes from Thomas for the production he has given us. I think he has exceed all of our wildest expectations of him. I'm sure Manning has explained that situation to him and he won't make the same mistake again.
Is too outrageous for me to predict that he's on his way to being an elite TE?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

No one's really sure. It wasn't him calling Manning Champ though, he said "you're playing like the elephant's eyebrows..."

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/557907-Manning-post-game

He actually said, "hey Champ, you've been playing like the elephants eyebrows for the last year.", or something to that effect. The guy was really loud too.I started a thread about it earlier today. Manning said it happened before and he wasn't going to answer him. I was wondering if anyone knew who the guy was. I thought it was strange that a clown would be allowed in the press room.

[BroncoWave]

Is too outrageous for me to predict that he's on his way to being an elite TE?

He's already playing like one. He's not on the level of a Jimmy Graham or Tony Gonzalez yet, but he is shooting up the ranks of the position pretty fast. He's one of my favorite players on this team.

[zbeg]

Little OT but I still can't get over the fact that Jerry Jones considered yesterday a "Moral Victory", and called Romo's game Elway-esque.

Elway won those type of games Jones, he didn't throw an interception on his final drive.

Sometimes Elway did throw those picks though. I remember a 1994 SNF game against the Chargers and I would have bet my life the Broncos were going to come from 3 down to win when Seau intercepted Elway and I was looking at the TV thinking, "What the hell just happened?"

The other game that comes to mind is the 1996 game in Mimnesota when that Elway pass was incredibly lucky to not have been a game-ending interception. 99 times out of 100 the best case is it falls incomplete.

But that's not the narrative. Elway was always clutch, because we forget the times he wasn't. Romo always chokes, because we ignore all the times he doesn't. And somehow when Manning throws a 4th quarter interception on a bad throw, it's not an issue. But Romo does it and he's the goat.

Well, you know how the old saying goes: any time you score 48 points and lose, it's the quarterback's fault.

[sneakers]

It probably wouldn't have mattered. Peyton told Moreno not to score. I think he would have just given himself up at the one foot line.

It looked like they were having a conversation in the backfield right before this play (when moreno got the ball down to the 1)

[sneakers]

Sometimes Elway did throw those picks though. I remember a 1994 SNF game against the Chargers and I would have bet my life the Broncos were going to come from 3 down to win when Seau intercepted Elway and I was looking at the TV thinking, "What the hell just happened?"



I remember that so vividly!

the ball looked like it just slipped out of his hand,

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Our young Orange Julius made a mistake by running out of bounds with his catch and run.

I really think Thomas was trying for the first down marker. He came up 1/2 yard short. Had he picked up the 1st, it wouldn't have mattered if he went out of bounds as the Cowgirls only had 1 timeout left. He wasn't trying to score, hence why he dove and stretched for the marker and his momentum carried him out.

[zbeg]

I remember that so vividly!

the ball looked like it just slipped out of his hand,

Yeah, it was a weird interception and it happened so fast. I was so upset. Just driving and then boom. Game over, then the now-familiar shot of Wade Phillips with that "I think I may have just sharted" look on his face.

Bleh. Bad memories.

[Northman]

But that's not the narrative. Elway was always clutch, because we forget the times he wasn't. Romo always chokes, because we ignore all the times he doesn't. And somehow when Manning throws a 4th quarter interception on a bad throw, it's not an issue. But Romo does it and he's the goat.



Thats the crutch of it though. I saw Vinny Testicles have some amazing games and comebacks as well (Monday nighter vs the dolphins rings a bell). But thats where guys like John, Joe, Peyton, etc differ from guys like Vinny and Tony. Vinny and Tony only did it occasionally and not the norm, whereas the other guys did it far more consistently and far more often to where they won games. Its not about how many points your defense gives up. Its what you do with the time remaining when the game is on the line.

[BroncoWave]

Thats the crutch of it though. I saw Vinny Testicles have some amazing games and comebacks as well (Monday nighter vs the dolphins rings a bell). But thats where guys like John, Joe, Peyton, etc differ from guys like Vinny and Tony. Vinny and Tony only did it occasionally and not the norm, whereas the other guys did it far more consistently and far more often to where they won games. Its not about how many points your defense gives up. Its what you do with the time remaining when the game is on the line.

I could not disagree with this any more vehemently. The way Romo played Sunday, he would have been on the bench at the end of the 4th in 95% of games because the game would have been out of hand in his favor. The only reason he even HAD to be in a situation where they needed a late drive is because his D barely helped him out. I just don't get the logic in bashing him for not leading them on one more scoring drive when he had already led them on 8 during the game.

This is like when a pitcher has a poor W-L record because he gets no run support despite a killer ERA. People look at the record and just assume he isn't that good. It could be 0-0 in the 9th and if the pitcher gives up a walk-off homer there are those who would say he isn't clutch and blame him for the loss. Forget the fact that he shut out an offense for 8 innings and his team gave him no run support. Loss is all on the pitcher because he wasn't "clutch".

[Broncolingus]

Hindsight's 20/20 there Jason, but with the way your offense was playing I'm still scratching my head about trying to stop them...

...if you were considering a 'choice.'

Oh well, glad you decided what you did...:D

[Ravage!!!]

I really think Thomas was trying for the first down marker. He came up 1/2 yard short. Had he picked up the 1st, it wouldn't have mattered if he went out of bounds as the Cowgirls only had 1 timeout left. He wasn't trying to score, hence why he dove and stretched for the marker and his momentum carried him out.

Of course his momentum carried him out. Thats what happens when you dive towards the sidelines while turning the corner. As much as you guys are trying to defend Julius against my "complaints"... I'm not really mad or griping about him. I'm pointing out a MISTAKE that he made, and it WAS a mistake. A Mistake that COULD have been a BIG mistake in many other situations and games (ask the RB for Chicago that played against us in 2011).

I also pointed out that we probably won't see that happen from him again, because as a young player he learned from that mistake. I'm ABSOLUTELY SURE that he will be talked about it during game film, and from Manning, in review and it will be explained that in that kind of situation, staying IN bounds is HUGE. Its OK to say that Julius made a mistake in that situation. It's alright. I'm not saying we should cut him for it or anything.

[wayninja]

I could not disagree with this any more vehemently. The way Romo played Sunday, he would have been on the bench at the end of the 4th in 95% of games because the game would have been out of hand in his favor. The only reason he even HAD to be in a situation where they needed a late drive is because his D barely helped him out. I just don't get the logic in bashing him for not leading them on one more scoring drive when he had already led them on 8 during the game.

This is like when a pitcher has a poor W-L record because he gets no run support despite a killer ERA. People look at the record and just assume he isn't that good. It could be 0-0 in the 9th and if the pitcher gives up a walk-off homer there are those who would say he isn't clutch and blame him for the loss. Forget the fact that he shut out an offense for 8 innings and his team gave him no run support. Loss is all on the pitcher because he wasn't "clutch".

I don't get all the Romo love. Why don't you guys go to a cowboys board?

Let me make this simple for you. If X-Y = 3, and X is the winning teams score, and Y is the losing teams score, then the losing team lost by 3. Does that help? Northman is right. In a shootout you have to keep up. It doesn't really matter all that much that you kept up for 95% of the game if you can't keep up the remaining 5%.

Thats it.

[BroncoWave]

I don't get all the Romo love. Why don't you guys go to a cowboys board?

The main point of my post wasn't even about Romo. It's about how people attach some mystical importance to the word "clutch". A TD in the first minute of the game gives you as many points as a TD in the last minute of the game. If you lead your team to 48 points, you shouldn't even have to be "clutch" at the end of it. LeBron James is another great example of someone who was a victim of this. In his Cleveland days, he was constantly mocked for not being "clutch" enough. Forget the fact that his stellar play is the ONLY thing that kept those shitty Cavs teams in games in the first place. He was simply overrated and not "clutch" because he missed a few last second shots. I think that is just lazy and stupid sports analysis. Football games are 60 minutes. Basketball games are 48 minutes. Baseball games are 9 innings. They aren't only contested in the last 2 minutes or in the last inning. Every second/inning counts. Criticizing a player because he is not "clutch" because he struggles at the end despite playing amazingly the entire game is about as stupid as it gets IMO.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't get all the Romo love. Why don't you guys go to a cowboys board?

Let me make this simple for you. If X-Y = 3, and X is the winning teams score, and Y is the losing teams score, then the losing team lost by 3. Does that help? Northman is right. In a shootout you have to keep up. It doesn't really matter all that much that you kept up for 95% of the game if you can't keep up the remaining 5%.

Thats it.

Yes and no. If you don't think the Cowboys can take something positive from that game, then I think you are being short sighted. There is still a LOT of season left, and this game could be the catepolt for their season. They may have found the swagger that they have been looking for. They just went toe-to-toe with the best team in the NFL, and were able to go punch-for-punch with them.

Remember, Rocky LOST his fight to the heavy weight champ the FIRST time they met. But that built Rocky's confidence. If this were the SUper Bowl, I would say you are 100% right. But this was game 5. This was a situation that ANY team in their position could say "the only thing that stopped us, was the clock." That would be right, and WE knew it!

[Ravage!!!]

The main point of my post wasn't even about Romo. It's about how people attach some mystical importance to the word "clutch". A TD in the first minute of the game gives you as many points as a TD in the last minute of the game. If you lead your team to 48 points, you shouldn't even have to be "clutch" at the end of it. LeBron James is another great example of someone who was a victim of this. In his Cleveland days, he was constantly mocked for not being "clutch" enough. Forget the fact that his stellar play is the ONLY thing that kept those shitty Cavs teams in games in the first place. He was simply overrated and not "clutch" because he missed a few last second shots. I think that is just lazy and stupid sports analysis. Football games are 60 minutes. Basketball games are 48 minutes. Baseball games are 9 innings. They aren't only contested in the last 2 minutes or in the last inning. Every second/inning counts. Criticizing a player because he is not "clutch" because he struggles at the end despite playing amazingly the entire game is about as stupid as it gets IMO.

There is a BIG difference though. The TD in the first minute of the game doesn't have the pressure of the "game" on your shoulders or on your mind. The GREAT players not only accept that Challenge.. but RISE to the Challenge. Others, like Romo, tend to fail because the pressure and situation is just too big for them. This "mystical" word clutch isn't mystical at all. It's not an unknown, and its ABSOLUTELY one of the largest key points that seperates the very good from the Truly GREAT.

BIG difference between the situations, and its why we see certain players constantly, and consistently, fall short.

[Northman]

I just don't get the logic in bashing him for not leading them on one more scoring drive when he had already led them on 8 during the game.



Because thats football. Any given week a part of a team may not show up, in our case our defense was atrocious and Tony had his way with it throughout the day. Sure, he could of crossed his fingers that his OWN defense could of made a play in the end but they didnt. So it was up to him to mount one more drive to put his team ahead again or at the very least get in FG range.

[BroncoWave]

There is a BIG difference though. The TD in the first minute of the game doesn't have the pressure of the "game" on your shoulders or on your mind. The GREAT players not only accept that Challenge.. but RISE to the Challenge. Others, like Romo, tend to fail because the pressure and situation is just too big for them. This "mystical" word clutch isn't mystical at all. It's not an unknown, and its ABSOLUTELY one of the largest key points that seperates the very good from the Truly GREAT.

BIG difference between the situations, and its why we see certain players constantly, and consistently, fall short.

Except Romo led the NFL in 4th quarter comeback wins last season and has 9 total over the last 2 seasons. People like to cherry pick the less common instances of him choking though because that better fits the narrative that the media and fans have created for him.

[Northman]

Football games are 60 minutes. Basketball games are 48 minutes. Baseball games are 9 innings. They aren't only contested in the last 2 minutes or in the last inning. Every second/inning counts. Criticizing a player because he is not "clutch" because he struggles at the end despite playing amazingly the entire game is about as stupid as it gets IMO.

My god dude, you are so over analyzing it. No one has ever said the entire game isnt important. Sheeeesh. :lol:

[BroncoWave]

Because thats football. Any given week a part of a team may not show up, in our case our defense was atrocious and Tony had his way with it throughout the day. Sure, he could of crossed his fingers that his OWN defense could of made a play in the end but they didnt. So it was up to him to mount one more drive to put his team ahead again or at the very least get in FG range.

It's lazy analysis. The Cowboys defense is WAY more responsible for this loss than Romo is for messing up a single play. Football is a team sport. To assign the blame to a single player for messing up a single play over a unit of 11 people who sucked for most of the game just isn't very intelligent IMO.

[Northman]

It's lazy analysis. The Cowboys defense is WAY more responsible for this loss than Romo is for messing up a single play. Football is a team sport. To assign the blame to a single player for messing up a single play over a unit of 11 people who sucked for most of the game just isn't very intelligent IMO.

Of course the whole team lost!!!!!

But that doesnt take away from the standpoint they still had a chance to tie or win with the game on the line and their QB threw a INT at the key moment. lmao

[BroncoWave]

Of course the whole team lost!!!!!

But that doesnt take away from the standpoint they still had a chance to tie or win with the game on the line and their QB threw a INT at the key moment. lmao

What do you assign more importance to? Romo's late pick, or Dallas' defensive performance over 60 minutes?

[Ravage!!!]

It's lazy analysis. The Cowboys defense is WAY more responsible for this loss than Romo is for messing up a single play. Football is a team sport. To assign the blame to a single player for messing up a single play over a unit of 11 people who sucked for most of the game just isn't very intelligent IMO.

Stop it. Stop this stuff where you try to tell people that what they think is wrong because YOU see more, or that YOU are just smarter than everyone because you "See thing different."

EVERYONE on this board knows there is more to the entire game than ONE drive. EVERYONE knows that Tony was not the SOLE reason for losing the game. EVERYONE KNOWS that 1 TD is worth as many points as any other TD throughout the game. But there are BIGGER moments than others. There are times when your team needs you to make a play, and you are either known for making it, or known for BLOWING it. Romo, is known for BLOWING it. That's his reputation. It's a reputation that he has EARNED because he's known for making the big mistake in BIG Moments throughout his career.

Brett Favre. Since you think we are picking on guys like Romo, Brett Favre... a HoF QB and one that has records for everything.... was known for making the BIG mistake in BIG Moments.

[BroncoWave]

Stop it. Stop this stuff where you try to tell people that what they think is wrong because YOU see more, or that YOU are just smarter than everyone because you "See thing different."

EVERYONE on this board knows there is more to the entire game than ONE drive. EVERYONE knows that Tony was not the SOLE reason for losing the game. EVERYONE KNOWS that 1 TD is worth as many points as any other TD throughout the game. But there are BIGGER moments than others. There are times when your team needs you to make a play, and you are either known for making it, or known for BLOWING it. Romo, is known for BLOWING it. That's his reputation. It's a reputation that he has EARNED because he's known for making the big mistake in BIG Moments throughout his career.

Brett Favre. Since you think we are picking on guys like Romo, Brett Favre... a HoF QB and one that has records for everything.... was known for making the BIG mistake in BIG Moments.

So you are just going to ignore the fact I posted that Romo led the NFL in 4th quarter comebacks last season and has 9 over the past two years, huh? Well ok then.

[Northman]

What do you assign more importance to? Romo's late pick, or Dallas' defensive performance over 60 minutes?


Does it even matter? I know you wont accept the answer.

Apparently everyone except you knew going in how bad the Cowboys pass defense was. This is why Garrett took the ball first. Didnt really help him in the long run because his team fell behind anyway. But Garrett knew that his offense had to carry the load in this game. With 2 minutes left, your QB should be able to drive down the field for at the very least a FG attempt. ESPECIALLY when the defense your playing against has sucked as bad as your own. If we dont put much emphasis on late game heroics than going by your theory (again) guys like Elway and Montana are really not that special for the things they did in their careers. Going by your theory, a classic game like the drive meant nothing. A game like the one vs KC when Denver was down like 19-6 or something with 5 minutes left meant nothing. Bottom line is, your team/QB can play like shit for 58 minutes and yet still be in the ballgame. It doesnt matter how you got there, if your in the game and you have a chance to win and your QB does something that notoriously does more than not says that he failed. Its a team loss, but it doesnt change the fact that he failed to deliver when he needed to the most at that particular time. You can disagree all you want, you will not change my stance on this. Its not lazy analysis, because the analyzing isnt about the entire game at that point. Its about closing out a game when you have a chance to win and whether or not your QB can lead the offense to victory. If it meant nothing as you have implied here, John Elway and a slew of legendary QB's would not be famous as they are.

[wayninja]

Yes and no. If you don't think the Cowboys can take something positive from that game, then I think you are being short sighted. There is still a LOT of season left, and this game could be the catepolt for their season. They may have found the swagger that they have been looking for. They just went toe-to-toe with the best team in the NFL, and were able to go punch-for-punch with them.

Remember, Rocky LOST his fight to the heavy weight champ the FIRST time they met. But that built Rocky's confidence. If this were the SUper Bowl, I would say you are 100% right. But this was game 5. This was a situation that ANY team in their position could say "the only thing that stopped us, was the clock." That would be right, and WE knew it!


You can take all the positive you want out of a loss. It was a moral victory after all.

I dunno, I guess you always need to look at the positives, but it still feels like loser talk to me. Rocky was fiction.

[wayninja]

Except Romo led the NFL in 4th quarter comeback wins last season and has 9 total over the last 2 seasons. People like to cherry pick the less common instances of him choking though because that better fits the narrative that the media and fans have created for him.

For someone claiming not to be making this about Romo, you are sure mention Romo a lot.

[BroncoWave]

Does it even matter? I know you wont accept the answer.

Apparently everyone except you knew going in how bad the Cowboys pass defense was. This is why Garrett took the ball first. Didnt really help him in the long run because his team fell behind anyway. But Garrett knew that his offense had to carry the load in this game. With 2 minutes left, your QB should be able to drive down the field for at the very least a FG attempt. ESPECIALLY when the defense your playing against has sucked as bad as your own. If we dont put much emphasis on late game heroics than going by your theory (again) guys like Elway and Montana are really not that special for the things they did in their careers. Going by your theory, a classic game like the drive meant nothing. A game like the one vs KC when Denver was down like 19-6 or something with 5 minutes left meant nothing. Bottom line is, your team/QB can play like shit for 58 minutes and yet still be in the ballgame. It doesnt matter how you got there, if your in the game and you have a chance to win and your QB does something that notoriously does more than not says that he failed. Its a team loss, but it doesnt change the fact that he failed to deliver when he needed to the most at that particular time. You can disagree all you want, you will not change my stance on this. Its not lazy analysis, because the analyzing isnt about the entire game at that point. Its about closing out a game when you have a chance to win and whether or not your QB can lead the offense to victory. If it meant nothing as you have implied here, John Elway and a slew of legendary QB's would not be famous as they are.

You must think Tim Tebow was great then. He was famous for playing like shit for 58 minutes and pulling out miracles at the end. It wasn't sustainable. I'd rather have a team more prone to playing well for the first 58 and sucking for the last 2 than vice versa. Over the long run I think playing well for 58 minutes will lead to more wins.

And it's not like Elway only ever played well late. He was great because he played great for the entirety of several games and carried several teams on his back. Yeah he had games where he sucked for 58 minutes and pulled it out at the end, but it was rare that he sucked for 58 minutes of a game. Yeah he has the big comebacks that he is famous for, but it's not like that was the only trick in his bag.

[Ravage!!!]

You can take all the positive you want out of a loss. It was a moral victory after all.

I dunno, I guess you always need to look at the positives, but it still feels like loser talk to me. Rocky was fiction.

A lot of stories are fiction, but that doesnt' mean the morals of the story don't hold true. Its not just a black-n-white situation where losing a game is just the "worst" thing that can happen and NOTHING good can come from it. Just like in life, good things come from bad situations. Plenty of positive things can come from a loss.

[BroncoWave]

For someone claiming not to be making this about Romo, you are sure mention Romo a lot.

And you are responding to every single one of them. You seem pretty obsessed with him yourself.

[wayninja]

Does it even matter? I know you wont accept the answer.

Apparently everyone except you knew going in how bad the Cowboys pass defense was. This is why Garrett took the ball first. Didnt really help him in the long run because his team fell behind anyway. But Garrett knew that his offense had to carry the load in this game. With 2 minutes left, your QB should be able to drive down the field for at the very least a FG attempt. ESPECIALLY when the defense your playing against has sucked as bad as your own. If we dont put much emphasis on late game heroics than going by your theory (again) guys like Elway and Montana are really not that special for the things they did in their careers. Going by your theory, a classic game like the drive meant nothing. A game like the one vs KC when Denver was down like 19-6 or something with 5 minutes left meant nothing. Bottom line is, your team/QB can play like shit for 58 minutes and yet still be in the ballgame. It doesnt matter how you got there, if your in the game and you have a chance to win and your QB does something that notoriously does more than not says that he failed. Its a team loss, but it doesnt change the fact that he failed to deliver when he needed to the most at that particular time. You can disagree all you want, you will not change my stance on this. Its not lazy analysis, because the analyzing isnt about the entire game at that point. Its about closing out a game when you have a chance to win and whether or not your QB can lead the offense to victory. If it meant nothing as you have implied here, John Elway and a slew of legendary QB's would not be famous as they are.

This is the heart of. You do it all game. The only time you DON'T do it is when you need it the most. That's the crux of it.

You can analyze the rest of the game all you want, but with the game tied, 2 minutes to go, having had your way with the opposing defense all day, you throw a pick in your own red-zone.

That's a monumental blunder, totally inconsistent from the rest of the game, and was exact pivot point from controlling your own destiny to giving up the game to the opponent. How do you not see that?

[Ravage!!!]

So you are just going to ignore the fact I posted that Romo led the NFL in 4th quarter comebacks last season and has 9 over the past two years, huh? Well ok then.

Yeah.. I am. For several different reasons. One, the 4th quarter comeback stat is one that is really overblown. Two, we don't know the situation of those games. How many were really BIG moments? IDK, because your stat doesn't tell the story. Stats never tell the whole story.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah.. I am. For several different reasons. One, the 4th quarter comeback stat is one that is really overblown. Two, we don't know the situation of those games. How many were really BIG moments? IDK, because your stat doesn't tell the story. Stats never tell the whole story.

But your narrative fueled by the media sure does! :lol:

[Northman]

You must think Tim Tebow was great then. He was famous for playing like shit for 58 minutes and pulling out miracles at the end. It wasn't sustainable. I'd rather have a team more prone to playing well for the first 58 and sucking for the last 2 than vice versa. Over the long run I think playing well for 58 minutes will lead to more wins.

And it's not like Elway only ever played well late. He was great because he played great for the entirety of several games and carried several teams on his back. Yeah he had games where he sucked for 58 minutes and pulled it out at the end, but it was rare that he sucked for 58 minutes of a game. Yeah he has the big comebacks that he is famous for, but it's not like that was the only trick in his bag.

Tim is a very poor example. Talk about cherry picking.

[BroncoWave]

Tim is a very poor example. Talk about cherry picking.

He's probably the most true example of what you were talking about though. No player ever has made a career for sucking most of games and pulling them out at the end. Yes Elway did that sometimes, but way more often than not he played well for the majority of the game. Elway's late game heroics are a part of why he was so great, but he had many other things going for him too.

[wayninja]

And you are responding to every single one of them. You seem pretty obsessed with him yourself.

I'm obsessed with saying how much better Manning is. You are obsessed with cowboy jock gobbling.

[BroncoWave]

I'm obsessed with saying how much better Manning is. You are obsessed with cowboy jock gobbling.

I agree that Manning is way better than Tono Romo. I have never said otherwise and I would be very stupid to. I'm sorry you can't let this go.

[wayninja]

You must think Tim Tebow was great then. He was famous for playing like shit for 58 minutes and pulling out miracles at the end. It wasn't sustainable. I'd rather have a team more prone to playing well for the first 58 and sucking for the last 2 than vice versa. Over the long run I think playing well for 58 minutes will lead to more wins.

And it's not like Elway only ever played well late. He was great because he played great for the entirety of several games and carried several teams on his back. Yeah he had games where he sucked for 58 minutes and pulled it out at the end, but it was rare that he sucked for 58 minutes of a game. Yeah he has the big comebacks that he is famous for, but it's not like that was the only trick in his bag.

Yeah, I would say Tebow is pretty clutch. Way more clutch than Romo. When the pressure was on, Tebow wouldn't crack. Romo does.

That's not to say that Tebow is a better quarterback, not by a long shot. But he works way better under pressure than Romo does.

[wayninja]

I agree that Manning is way better than Tono Romo. I have never said otherwise and I would be very stupid to. I'm sorry you can't let this go.

You said that Romo outplayed manning. Do I need to find your own quote for you?

Now you seem on a crusade to prove it on the Broncos message board. I kindly suggested you take your cowboy slavishness to the proper place.

[Northman]

He's probably the most true example of what you were talking about though. No player ever has made a career for sucking most of games and pulling them out at the end. Yes Elway did that sometimes, but way more often than not he played well for the majority of the game. Elway's late game heroics are a part of why he was so great, but he had many other things going for him too.

But your still cherry picking. You know damn well that (as you stated) he didnt have a lot of other things going for him like John. Again, this isnt about whether Romo is worse than Tim Tebow, he's not. This is about his consistency with clutch play vs making the fubar mistake. Romo is good, he just isnt great. Whether you can live with that assessment from me i dont know but thats how i see it when i watch him play, especially in critical moments. You would think that if Romo was so great at 4th quarter comebacks (again as you stated the last couple of years) that he would be more revered. But we both know that its his lack of clutch play that overshadows the good comebacks he has.

[MOtorboat]

What do you assign more importance to? Romo's late pick, or Dallas' defensive performance over 60 minutes?

Romo's late pick.

He was in a position to win the game, and his actions, and his actions alone lost Dallas the chance to win the game.

Absolutely the turnover at the end of the game is more important than the touchdown allowed in the first quarter. Absolutely.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah, I would say Tebow is pretty clutch. Way more clutch than Romo. When the pressure was on, Tebow wouldn't crack. Romo does.

That's not to say that Tebow is a better quarterback, not by a long shot. But he works way better under pressure than Romo does.

Which goes to show why playing well over the whole game is more important than only being good late. One of those guys is still a starting QB and the other is out of football.

[BroncoWave]

Romo's late pick..

Weren't you one of the ones saying that Moore got too much blame for our loss to Baltimore? Or am I remembering things incorrectly.

[Ravage!!!]

But your narrative fueled by the media sure does! :lol:

??? what? :confused:

[Ravage!!!]

Weren't you one of the ones saying that Moore got too much blame for our loss to Baltimore? Or am I remembering things incorrectly.

I was one that said that too, what's that got to do with this? Does Moore have a reputation for blowing big moments throughout his career? Was this a pattern that we have seen with Moore, or was it just the one? There is a difference in positions. One, you are playing safety and few fans around the NFL know your name. The other you are the leader, the captain, and the face of the franchise. The ball is in your hands on every offensive play, and the offense runs THROUGH you. You make the decisions and the choices for your team in moments that can either win or lose you the game.

Again. Quit being obtuse purely for the reason of wanting to argue. NO ONE is saying that Romo is the SINGLE and only reason for losing the game. But he had a chance to lead his team to field goal range and win that game.... and he blew it.

[Ravage!!!]

Which goes to show why playing well over the whole game is more important than only being good late. One of those guys is still a starting QB and the other is out of football.

You have to be good throughout the game to stay on a team. You have to show you can win big games in order to be amongst the best. You have to SHINE in BIG moments if you want to win Championships. You have to play good in regulation just to get you to those moments where the team relies on you the most, and then you have to play BETTER.

If you don't. In the end, you were just another QB that couldn't really go anywhere in the NFL.

[BroncoWave]

But he had a chance to lead his team to field goal range and win that game.... and he blew it.

I think saying this takes away from the great play Trevathan made. Seems like people are saying we only won because Romo blew it. Not because we made a great defensive play to seal it. That's the way I'd prefer to look at the game.

[MOtorboat]

Weren't you one of the ones saying that Moore got too much blame for our loss to Baltimore? Or am I remembering things incorrectly.

I thought the outrage at Moore was way overblown, but there's no denying that was the most important play of the game.

[BroncoWave]

I thought the outrage at Moore was way overblown, but there's no denying that was the most important play of the game.

Well I deny it, but that's a play no one's opinion will ever change on! :lol:

[Northman]

I think saying this takes away from the great play Trevathan made. Seems like people are saying we only won because Romo blew it. Not because we made a great defensive play to seal it. That's the way I'd prefer to look at the game.

It was a great play by Tre, but it doesnt take away the poor decision by Romo to throw it. We went over this yesterday, Murray was underneath for the check down and when Romo felt pressure he forced it too the TE. It was a very poor decision and a great leap by Tre to get the INT. But it had to do more with the poor decision because it came from the guy throwing the football when he shouldnt have.

[Ravage!!!]

I think saying this takes away from the great play Trevathan made. Seems like people are saying we only won because Romo blew it. Not because we made a great defensive play to seal it. That's the way I'd prefer to look at the game.

It was a great INT, no doubt about it. If this was Romo's only (or rare) "blown" moment in a big game, then that would probably be what was talked about. But the reason Romo's INT is a story is because this isn't just a "now and then" thing for him. It's what he's been known for, and its the biggest complaint from the Dallas fans. It's been the very thing that has held them back (from their perspective), and its one of the LARGEST complaints about Tony. He can't win in big moments, and whether its a fumble while holding a game winning kick, or throwing the untimely INT....his mind fails at the most important time.

[BroncoWave]

It was a great play by Tre, but it doesnt take away the poor decision by Romo to throw it. We went over this yesterday, Murray was underneath for the check down and when Romo felt pressure he forced it too the TE. It was a very poor decision and a great leap by Tre to get the INT. But it had to do more with the poor decision because it came from the guy throwing the football when he shouldnt have.

Fair enough, he definitely should have thrown it to Murray. Thank God he didn't though!

[BroncoWave]

It was a great INT, no doubt about it. If this was Romo's only (or rare) "blown" moment in a big game, then that would probably be what was talked about. But the reason Romo's INT is a story is because this isn't just a "now and then" thing for him. It's what he's been known for, and its the biggest complaint from the Dallas fans. It's been the very thing that has held them back (from their perspective), and its one of the LARGEST complaints about Tony. He can't win in big moments, and whether its a fumble while holding a game winning kick, or throwing the untimely INT....his mind fails at the most important time.

But you frequently diss this logic by saying something to effect of "People always say so and so has NEVER happened...until it does".

[TXBRONC]

It was hard to understand. Was going to bring this up last night but was too lazy.

If that's what he said that was a rather odd statement. Maybe this guy is just trying to get in the news. All of the other reporters were probablly thinking wtf is this guy on.

I've never heard the line "the elephant's eyebrows" what the hell does that mean?

[Ravage!!!]

But you frequently diss this logic by saying something to effect of "People always say so and so has NEVER happened...until it does".

Absolutely. I'm a firm believer in that. I think Romo can dismantle that reputation with a big playoff win. But difffernet standards do apply to different people that have different situations. To say that Manning "can't" win in cold weather is just...silly. He's proved to be a GREAT (greatest) player in NFL history. To say he "can't" win because the weather is cold is just being stupid for the sake of TRYING to find a fault.

Romo can wipe out his reputation by winning in the playoffs and taking his team to the Super Bowl. It will probably take something like that before he can shake the rep that has stained him because he has LOST the last games of the year, that could have taken the Cowboys to the playoffs, two years in a row now. Throw in the other big INTs in big games, and the famous blunder of holding the game winning kick in the playoffs........ and he's got a lot to over come.

[Ravage!!!]

It was a great play by Tre, but it doesnt take away the poor decision by Romo to throw it. We went over this yesterday, Murray was underneath for the check down and when Romo felt pressure he forced it too the TE. It was a very poor decision and a great leap by Tre to get the INT. But it had to do more with the poor decision because it came from the guy throwing the football when he shouldnt have.

But it really was a GREAT Int by Tre. I mean, leaping up and out to snag that ball was awesome!

[Ravage!!!]

I've never heard the line "the elephant's eyebrows" what the hell does that mean?

yeah.. I have never heard of that either. THis guy must be either 90 yrs old, or comes from Africa where elephants are common.

[wayninja]

Which goes to show why playing well over the whole game is more important than only being good late. One of those guys is still a starting QB and the other is out of football.

So? What point are you trying to make exactly? No one said not playing well over the course of the game wasn't important. Are you really trying to prove that?

[BroncoWave]

Absolutely. I'm a firm believer in that. I think Romo can dismantle that reputation with a big playoff win. But difffernet standards do apply to different people that have different situations. To say that Manning "can't" win in cold weather is just...silly. He's proved to be a GREAT (greatest) player in NFL history. To say he "can't" win because the weather is cold is just being stupid for the sake of TRYING to find a fault.

Romo can wipe out his reputation by winning in the playoffs and taking his team to the Super Bowl. It will probably take something like that before he can shake the rep that has stained him because he has LOST the last games of the year, that could have taken the Cowboys to the playoffs, two years in a row now. Throw in the other big INTs in big games, and the famous blunder of holding the game winning kick in the playoffs........ and he's got a lot to over come.

Fair enough. Looks like we have come to a reasonable agreement in this thread after all!

[wayninja]

I've never heard the line "the elephant's eyebrows" what the hell does that mean?

It means Bees Knees. I remain convinced that it was terminator style time traveler.

[wayninja]

I think saying this takes away from the great play Trevathan made. Seems like people are saying we only won because Romo blew it. Not because we made a great defensive play to seal it. That's the way I'd prefer to look at the game.

It takes away from nothing. The play can be great from the defensive perspective and terrible from the offensive perspective. Quit trying play one against the other.

[BroncoWave]

I think we have exhausted this argument wayninja. Neither of us is going to change the other's mind at this point.

[wayninja]

Well I deny it, but that's a play no one's opinion will ever change on! :lol:

I actually agree with you on this. I don't think the Moore play was a good corollary to the Romo INT. Moore's gaff did not cost us the game directly. You could, and some do, make the argument that it started us down the path to us losing the game, but the fact remains that the play only lead to a tie, not a win.

Romo's INT directly led to the Broncos winning.

[TXBRONC]

What do you assign more importance to? Romo's late pick, or Dallas' defensive performance over 60 minutes?

Your question is b.s. IIRC the game was tied with what just under two minutes to play when Romo got the ball back and I think they had two maybe all three of their time left. Maybe this just flat out escapes you, but Romo had a chance to end the game with field goal and leave little to no time for Denver's offense. Instead he ends up turning the ball over which effectively ended the game. Trying blame the defense at that point is freaking stupid especially when the Dallas offense had a chance to hand Denver it's first loss.

But since you have to have show everyone right you will more likely do two things:

First, you won't let it go you'll make up some other lame ass arguement because you know it all don't you?

Second you'll more than likely cry that you're victim and how you're always picked on, stocked and whatever else you can come with. Then you'll show me by tell everyone that you're going to put me on ignore and then not do it.

[BroncoWave]

Oh look, TX lecturing me on how I can't let things go. How typical. :lol:

See post #92.

[TXBRONC]

Oh look, TX lecturing me on how I can't let things go. How typical. :lol:

See post #92.

New beginning? Same old BTB being a little kid. :lol:

[BroncoWave]

New beginning? My same BTB being a little kid. :lol:

See posts #89 and 92 in this thread. I have nothing else to say to you on this topic. Have a nice day. :)

[TXBRONC]

See posts #89 and 92 in this thread. I have nothing else to say to you on this topic. Have a nice day. :)

You too. :wave:

[DenBronx]

I've never heard the line "the elephant's eyebrows" what the hell does that mean?


It means Bees Knees. I remain convinced that it was terminator style time traveler.

Still dont even know what bees knees is either. Guess it was an insult the way Manning took it.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Still dont even know what bees knees is either. Guess it was an insult the way Manning took it.

I think it was just so loud and over the top he sounded more like the papparazi than a sports reporter.