View Full Version : Manning driven in 2013 by playoff failure
Denver Native (Carol)
09-30-2013, 06:38 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) -- Great isn't good enough for Peyton Manning and the Denver Broncos.
They're treating opponents like the scout squad they practice against, moving up and down the field with little resistance, seemingly the only ones who can stop them is themselves.
Manning shrugged off yet another record-setting performance in a 52-20 dismantling of the Philadelphia Eagles on Sunday, saying the Broncos (4-0) are still a work in progress.
Coach John Fox concurred, saying Monday, ''I expect us to get better. People look at me funny when I say that, but there's still a lot of areas we need to improve.''
His list of worries:
rest - http://sports.yahoo.com/news/manning-driven-2013-playoff-failure-223114214--nfl.html
More like every playoff season except 2006, but the most recent is surely in the forefront as the only one relevant to this team. All that remains for PFM is a second Ring; I've been leaning on that horn a while. ;)
Denver Native (Carol)
09-30-2013, 06:54 PM
from article:
His list of worries: (referring to Coach Fox)
Inconsistent ground game.
Costly penalties.
Not finishing teams off.
''We left points out on the field yesterday,'' Fox suggested. ''... So, there's plenty to work on.''
The league's other 31 teams would love to have Fox's problems.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/manning-driven-2013-playoff-failure-223114214--nfl.html
PatriotsGuy
09-30-2013, 07:04 PM
More like every playoff season except 2006, but the most recent is surely in the forefront as the only one relevant;)
Precisely what I was thinking when I saw the thread title.
MOtorboat
09-30-2013, 07:09 PM
Precisely what I was thinking when I saw the thread title.
Don't encourage him. Why you trolling?
PatriotsGuy
09-30-2013, 07:10 PM
Don't encourage him. Why you trolling?
I didn't realize sharing a thought was trolling?
More like every playoff season except 2006, but the most recent is surely in the forefront as the only one relevant to this team. All that remains for PFM is a second Ring; I've been leaning on that horn a while. ;)
If Manning has a flaw, it's not realizing that there's only so much you can do. If your defense plays poorly or if special teams are bad or if your WR runs a bad route resulting in a pick six or whatever the situation, sometimes it's just not going to come together three or four games in a row to win the SB.
I admire the man's perseverance and work ethic, but in the end it is still a team game.
His Colts defenses were so awful even Dungy couldn't make them more than decent (and that's being generous.) And our secondary gave up WAY too many big plays against Baltimore last year (though Manning was still the guy who threw them a pick in FG range after going the entire first OT without scoring; Prater kicking the ground right before the half was killer, too, since the Ravens promptly marched downfield for a TD, then went to the locker room on the happy side of a 10 point swing.)
All that said, he's pretty much out of excuses. The D is solid: The secondary's so good they're shutting down teams even without Champ, Woodyard is mooting the lack of a true Mike, the front four is crushing the leagues best running games and once Miller's back our pass rush ought to be (at least) good enough with the coverage we have. The line's done an amazingly good job of overcoming a slew of injuries (including two season-ending ones,) he has more quality receivers than I can count and Knowshon's carrying the load running, receiving and picking up blitzes.
There's just not much missing except offensive line and running back depth, though I do wish more of the secondary focussed more on preventing catches than leveling receivers. This is PFMs to win or lose.
MOtorboat
10-01-2013, 10:35 PM
LOL.
Excuses for what? Every quarterback who ever played the game wished they "ran out of excuses" for being the best quarterback to ever play the game and be a Super Bowl champion.
LOL.
Excuses for what? Every quarterback who ever played the game wished they "ran out of excuses" for being the best quarterback to ever play the game and be a Super Bowl champion.
Excuses for the GoAT losing when it matters most, obviously, which he's done 11 out of 12 times, 8 of them without a single postseason win. He's got everything he needs now; if it happens again, it's on him.
We'll soon know whether he's the GoAT, or just the goat.
MOtorboat
10-01-2013, 10:59 PM
Excuses for the GoAT losing when it matters most, obviously, which he's done 11 out of 12 times, 8 of them without a single postseason win. He's got everything he needs now; if it happens again, it's on him.
We'll soon know whether he's the GoAT, or just the goat.
You're really telling me he's just a scrub because he only has one Super Bowl win? A "goat?"
Tell us again how Mark Sanchez is more clutch than Peyton Manning, or how the 0-4 Eli Manning is somehow better than his brother. Or maybe bring up how great and clutch Tebow is again.
I don't know why you hate Peyton Manning so much, but some of this is beyond ridiculous tripe.
NightTrainLayne
10-01-2013, 11:11 PM
Please back off of the personal attacks guys. Thanks.
You're really telling me he's just a scrub because he only has one Super Bowl win? A "goat?"
Tell us again how Mark Sanchez is more clutch than Peyton Manning, or how the 0-4 Eli Manning is somehow better than his brother. Or maybe bring up how great and clutch Tebow is again.
I don't know why you hate Peyton Manning so much, but some of this is beyond ridiculous tripe.
I neither hate him nor think him a scrub, but he has a documented record of coming up short in playoff games. There's no way around that. There were mitigating factors in Indy, and again last year, but none such are apparent now, so IF (and none of us know the future) he still comes up short, the only possible explanation will be that HE came up short, despite his teams best efforts.
MOtorboat
10-01-2013, 11:14 PM
I neither hate him nor think him a scrub, but he has a documented record of coming up short in playoff games. There's no way around that. There were mitigating factors in Indy, and again last year, but none such are apparent now, so IF (and none of us know the future) he still comes up short, the only possible explanation will be that HE came up short, despite his teams best efforts.
I think that's a very poor and sweeping judgment. But I'm not surprised.
It would take a very interesting view point to come to the conclusion that Peyton isn't one of the all-time greats. Many stats have been put on this site that have shown that Manning has performed well in the playoffs as an individual. However, football fans are not exactly the most rigorous intellectuals when it comes to the game. Most use it as an escape, and aren't willing to really dig and critically think on the matter. That's how you get so many people who parrot the garbage about Manning's career.
Those who parrot these sentiments typically can be proven wrong with ease. Some viewpoints, such as those that I am commenting about, tell a lot about how someone looks at topics. Not all thought processes or opinions are created equally.
Army Bronco
10-01-2013, 11:16 PM
You're really telling me he's just a scrub because he only has one Super Bowl win? A "goat?"
Tell us again how Mark Sanchez is more clutch than Peyton Manning, or how the 0-4 Eli Manning is somehow better than his brother. Or maybe bring up how great and clutch Tebow is again.
I don't know why you hate Peyton Manning so much, but some of this is beyond ridiculous tripe.
I neither hate him nor think him a scrub, but he has a documented record of coming up short in playoff games. There's no way around that. There were mitigating factors in Indy, and again last year, but none such are apparent now, so IF (and none of us know the future) he still comes up short, the only possible explanation will be that HE came up short, despite his teams best efforts.its a team sport. Elway went to 3 SBs before he won his first.
its a team sport. Elway went to 3 SBs before he won his first.
Those three losses didn't feature anything like the tools PFM had last year or has this year. It was pretty much Elway and Mecklenburg carrying the team to the playoffs. Once that changed, so did the SB record.
As far as playing well in team losses, last years playoff game was a team loss, but PFM was mediocre; show someone the numbers without telling them which game and 95% of people would assign Flacco PFMs stats. Plummer only lost one more turnover in his epic AFCCG collapse, and Mannings scored half the the Ravens points (including the season-ending FG.) I know people feel we let that game get away, but without a record punt AND kickoff TD return from Holliday that game never gets to one OT, let alone two. It wasn't all PFM, but he didn't help much.
MOtorboat
10-02-2013, 12:08 AM
Those three losses didn't feature anything like the tools PFM had last year or has this year. It was pretty much Elway and Mecklenburg carrying the team to the playoffs. Once that changed, so did the SB record.
As far as playing well in team losses, last years playoff game was a team loss, but PFM was mediocre; show someone the numbers without telling them which game and 95% of people would assign Flacco PFMs stats. Plummer only lost one more turnover in his epic AFCCG collapse, and Mannings scored half the the Ravens points (including the season-ending FG.) I know people feel we let that game get away, but without a record punt AND kickoff TD return from Holliday that game never gets to one OT, let alone two. It wasn't all PFM, but he didn't help much.
The Manning hate persists.
Without a blown defensive assignment, Joe Flacco doesn't win the game and Manning does. Like I said, I don't know where your hatred of Manning comes from, but it is just beyond ridiculous.
No credit for 290 yards and three touchdowns here, folks, just blame and idiocy.
The Manning hate persists.
Without a blown defensive assignment, Joe Flacco doesn't win the game and Manning does. Like I said, I don't know where your hatred of Manning comes from, but it is just beyond ridiculous.
No credit for 290 yards and three touchdowns here, folks, just blame and idiocy.
Three TDs AND three turnovers; that's a net of about 4 points, including the final 3. 290 passing yards is nothing to write home about in this NFL, certainly not for the greatest passer who ever was. Without many blown defensive assignments, a missed FG and three QB turnovers we win that game, but tell someone one passers rating was just over 88 and the others was >110 and I doubt anyone will say Flacco was the second one. It was a team loss, as noted, but PFM didn't help much.
He wouldn't have had the third turnover were it not for one of the worst plays in NFL history. Your view point is intellectually dishonest.
MOtorboat
10-02-2013, 12:22 AM
Three TDs AND three turnovers; that's a net of about 4 points, including the final 3. 290 passing yards is nothing to write home about in this NFL, certainly not for the greatest passer who ever was. Without many blown defensive assignments, a missed FG and three QB turnovers we win that game, but tell someone one passers rating was just over 88 and the others was >110 and I doubt anyone will say Flacco was the second one. It was a team loss, as noted, but PFM didn't help much.
Not sure why I even respond, you're hell bent on blaming Manning. You're at least consistent with blaming the best players on the team.
MOtorboat
10-02-2013, 12:24 AM
He wouldn't have had the third turnover were it not for one of the worst plays in NFL history. Your view point is intellectually dishonest.
Stop it, King. Everyone knows Manning should have told Moore he was in the wrong place before the play started.
DenBronx
10-02-2013, 01:14 AM
It's going to happen. Everyone knows its just a matter of time before Manning gets his 2nd ring. Maybe not too much time left but it's going to happen dammit!! lol
dogfish
10-02-2013, 03:01 AM
More like every playoff season except 2006, but the most recent is surely in the forefront as the only one relevant to this team. All that remains for PFM is a second Ring; I've been leaning on that horn a while. ;)
broken record is still broken. . .
A whole lot easier to put a guy on ignore...guess it's just not as fun. :shrugs:
Mr Bojangles
10-02-2013, 01:00 PM
Stop it, King. Everyone knows Manning should have told Moore he was in the wrong place before the play started.
Joel is 100% correct in his POV.
Moore's play didn't lose the game...it tied it up. Like starting anew....like imagining the game was just beginning, the slate wiped clean.
From that point on, MO, who do you think deserves the lion's share of responsibility?
And why do you keep insisting that POV is hate-driven?
MOtorboat
10-02-2013, 01:24 PM
Joel is 100% correct in his POV.
Moore's play didn't lose the game...it tied it up. Like starting anew....like imagining the game was just beginning, the slate wiped clean.
From that point on, MO, who do you think deserves the lion's share of responsibility?
And why do you keep insisting that POV is hate-driven?
A couple of things. Moore's play did LOSE the game because there was 30 seconds left, 70 yards to go and it was 3rd down and Denver was WINNING by 7. Had Moore batted the ball away its fourth down, with 70 yards to go and 25 seconds left.
Yes, the play ALLOWED Baltimore to tie the game, but if he makes the play Manning can't throw the interception.
Secondly, Joel once tried to tell us that your playoff winning percentage equates to how clutch you are which equates to where you stand on the pantheon of quarterbacks.
So: Sanchez > Tebow > Manning. That's complete blind "hate" in my book.
claymore
10-02-2013, 01:29 PM
I neither hate him nor think him a scrub, but he has a documented record of coming up short in playoff games. There's no way around that. There were mitigating factors in Indy, and again last year, but none such are apparent now, so IF (and none of us know the future) he still comes up short, the only possible explanation will be that HE came up short, despite his teams best efforts.
Was Elway a scrub for losing 3 SuperBowls? It was all his fault Im sure.
Secondly, Joel once tried to tell us that your playoff winning percentage equates to how clutch you are which equates to where you stand on the pantheon of quarterbacks.
So: Sanchez > Tebow > Manning. That's complete blind "hate" in my book.
Trent Dilfer the greatest quarterback of the Superbowl era?
...story checks out.
If only Joe Montana was better, he could have been what Jeff Hostetler was.
Remember those long "Elway or Flacco?" debates? Well, that's been solved definitively. Flacco it is.
If only Steve Young could have been as clutch as Jay Schroeder or Tony Eason or Chris Chandler. Then maybe his career would have gone somewhere.
Speaking of Tony Eason, the Bills and Dolphins really missed out on a great QB that 1983 draft. Elway was of course the prize of the draft (though obviously Elway was no Joe Theismann), but imagine what could have been if the Bills had gotten Eason instead of Jim Kelly. How much better off they would have been! And poor, poor Miami, settling for Dan Marino, who isn't even as good as Rodney Peete, Steve Beuerlein, or Kordell Stewart.
No, quarterback win/loss records in the playoffs is a pretty good model and has no problems with it whatsoever. Football's not really a team game, and I think that's very evident.
broncosfannum24
10-02-2013, 09:53 PM
Joel is 100% correct in his POV.
Moore's play didn't lose the game...it tied it up. Like starting anew....like imagining the game was just beginning, the slate wiped clean.
From that point on, MO, who do you think deserves the lion's share of responsibility?
And why do you keep insisting that POV is hate-driven?
A couple of things. Moore's play did LOSE the game because there was 30 seconds left, 70 yards to go and it was 3rd down and Denver was WINNING by 7. Had Moore batted the ball away its fourth down, with 70 yards to go and 25 seconds left.
Yes, the play ALLOWED Baltimore to tie the game, but if he makes the play Manning can't throw the interception.
Secondly, Joel once tried to tell us that your playoff winning percentage equates to how clutch you are which equates to where you stand on the pantheon of quarterbacks.
So: Sanchez > Tebow > Manning. That's complete blind "hate" in my book. wait im confused, so if the team is down 7 and they later score 7 to tie, that's a loss? Is that correct? :)
Not sure why I even respond, you're hell bent on blaming Manning. You're at least consistent with blaming the best players on the team.
"It wasn't all PFM, but he didn't help much." So I blame Manning AMONG OTHERS. He practically scored half the Ravens points—doesn't that deserve a LITTLE blame? Remember, he's supposed to be the best ever; if that's so, he should score more points for our team than for theirs. He doesn't get all the blame, not by far, but I never said he did. I've noted Moores gaffe, Champs several, even Prater kicking the ground before the ball to help our poor secondary play turn what should've been a 10 point half time lead into a tie. Manning did his part as much as they did though, and there was nothing "great" about it.
Secondly, Joel once tried to tell us that your playoff winning percentage equates to how clutch you are which equates to where you stand on the pantheon of quarterbacks.
So: Sanchez > Tebow > Manning. That's complete blind "hate" in my book.
It's nearly as hard for clutch play to make up for lack of talent and skill as the reverse, and I wouldn't rather have those guys than PFM, at least not if PFM had more than a year or two left and wasn't costing us 1/6th of our annual cap space. I'd rather have Eli than Peyton though; he's got less miles on him, costs less and makes plays when he must, even if he can't lead a weak team back from double digit deficits.
Was Elway a scrub for losing 3 SuperBowls? It was all his fault Im sure.
It wasn't all his fault any more than Mannings eight one-and-dones plus a Conference Championship and SB loss were all his. Although the way I hear it Elway was nothing special in those 3 SB losses either; he was magical many times EN ROUTE to the SB though. That's very different than one-and-done, let alone eight times.
*shrugs* I don't know what to tell ya'll except that, while Kool Aid is OK, I've never cared for the orange flavor. Tastes too artificial. ;)
He wouldn't have had the third turnover were it not for one of the worst plays in NFL history. Your view point is intellectually dishonest.
"It wasn't all PFM, but he didn't help much." Or perhaps "our secondary gave up WAY too many big plays against Baltimore last year."
The accusation of dishonesty is dishonest. Just as the last one. To be clear: Each and every accusation of dishonesty on the grounds of denying I said something I said OUT RIGHT will be reported. Personal attacks are bad enough; persisting in those proven false compounds an offense to decency with one against truth.
MOtorboat
10-03-2013, 06:12 PM
"It wasn't all PFM, but he didn't help much." So I blame Manning AMONG OTHERS. He practically scored half the Ravens points—doesn't that deserve a LITTLE blame? Remember, he's supposed to be the best ever; if that's so, he should score more points for our team than for theirs. He doesn't get all the blame, not by far, but I never said he did. I've noted Moores gaffe, Champs several, even Prater kicking the ground before the ball to help our poor secondary play turn what should've been a 10 point half time lead into a tie. Manning did his part as much as they did though, and there was nothing "great" about it.
Yes, yes. You say things like "among others" and then continue to ramble on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Manning's failures, and rarely ever elaborate on other players, except of course Champ Bailey, who you think should be a safety and Von Miller who you think should be a middle linebacker.
Three TDs AND three turnovers; that's a net of about 4 points, including the final 3. 290 passing yards is nothing to write home about in this NFL, certainly not for the greatest passer who ever was. Without many blown defensive assignments, a missed FG and three QB turnovers we win that game, but tell someone one passers rating was just over 88 and the others was >110 and I doubt anyone will say Flacco was the second one. It was a team loss, as noted, but PFM didn't help much.
I want you to know that I am literally laughing at you right now. The private message was utterly pathetic, and I am very much amused.
Again, saying something sparingly that hurts your argument and then basically ignoring it as nothing more than a small portion of reality is dishonesty. In regards to might have been a threat about libel, please. :lol:
So referencing the secondary and Prater don't count as referencing them unless dwelt on—in a thread on PFM. Sorry the things cited weren't discussed at sufficient length to satisfy claims they weren't cited at all.
I either said it or not; if I did (as the quotes show is the case,) claiming otherwise is the only dishonesty here.
You don't understand, do you? Jesus god, it's almost impressive. Joel, whether you're blatantly omitting issues that hurt your argument, or heavily downplaying factors that hurt your argument and then exaggerating the points that support your argument, you're being dishonest. That's what you do. It hurts because it's true.
You're doing two things here. 1. You're looking like a jackass. 2. You're amusing me.
Yes, yes. You say things like "among others" and then continue to ramble on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Manning's failures, and rarely ever elaborate on other players, except of course Champ Bailey, who you think should be a safety and Von Miller who you think should be a middle linebacker.
Joel, I want you to reread this post for five minutes straight. This is true. Repeatedly doing this is dishonest. By the way, Joel, that post you take issue with, it's within the CoC. I can say that your viewpoint is dishonest.
Joel, I want you to reread this post for five minutes straight. This is true. Repeatedly doing this is dishonest. By the way, Joel, that post you take issue with, it's within the CoC. I can say that your viewpoint is dishonest.
My viewpoint can't be dishonest unless I am; fortunately, it's not, because I'm not. I'm neither omitting nor downplaying anything; again, in a thread titled "Peyton Manning Driven in 2013 by Playoff Failure" it should be enough to note failures in the secondary and kicking game (not that those were the only ones, they just come most readily to my mind.) Fear not: One can be insulted without being hurt, and I'm only the former.
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