PDA

View Full Version : The myth of Manning's one-and-done "choke-jobs".



BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 09:18 AM
I recently read a stat somewhere that said in Manning's 8 first round playoff losses, 4 came when the defense surrendered late leads and 2 came because of missed FGs by Colts kickers. After seeing that, I decided to look it up and see for myself.

1999- 16-19 loss to the Titans. This being his second year in the league, I don't think it can be held too much against him. Heck, he had a 15 yard RUSHING touchdown in the 4th quarter to pull the score to within 3, but they couldn't get the ball back to the offense after. His passing stats were pretty bad in this one though.

2000- 17-23 OT loss @ Miami. In overtime, Manning drove the Colts down to the 29 yard line and their kicker missed a game winning FG. The Dolphins got a TD on the next drive. Can't blame this one entirely on Manning as he did get them into FG range to win the game.

2002- 0-41 loss at NY. This one was just bad. Really no defense for him here. Although it doesn't seem like his defense gave him much of a chance in this one regardless.

2005- 18-21 loss at Pitt. In this one, they were down 21-3 in the 4th and Manning led them on 2 TD drives to make it 21-18. He got them in position for a tying FG and the kicker missed it with under a minute to go.

2007- 24-28 loss to SD. Manning played pretty well in this game and they had a lead in the 4th quarter but their defense surrendered the winning TD to the Chargers soon after. Manning gets some blame for this one though because they had two more drives to potentially win it.

2008- 17-23 OT loss @ SD. The Colts led this one with under 2 minutes to play in the 4th quarter. The defense gave up a FG, then in OT SD won the toss and scored on the first drive to win. Manning had them in a position to win this one and the defense blew it.

2010- 16-17 loss to NY. Colts were up 2 with under a minute to go in this one and the defense gave up a last second game-winning FG. Yet another game in which Manning had the Colts in a position to win and his defense gave it up.

2012- 35-38 2OT loss to Baltimore. We all know how this one went. Manning had us in a position to win until the infamous Rahim Moore play.

So if you've been counting, his kickers missed 2 game winning/tying FGs in the last minutes and his defense gave up 4 TDs or FGs in the last 2 minutes or OT of games that Manning had given his teams late leads in. The only two you can really solidly put on Manning happened in 1999 and 2002.

Now this thread isn't to say that Manning hasn't had some bad performances in the playoffs, because he has, but it just goes to show that football really is a team game and even if a QB puts his team in a position to win it can still be blown by the kicker or the defense.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 09:52 AM
I recently read a stat somewhere that said in Manning's 8 first round playoff losses, 4 came when the defense surrendered late leads and 2 came because of missed FGs by Colts kickers. After seeing that, I decided to look it up and see for myself.

1999- 16-19 loss to the Titans. This being his second year in the league, I don't think it can be held too much against him. Heck, he had a 15 yard RUSHING touchdown in the 4th quarter to pull the score to within 3, but they couldn't get the ball back to the offense after. His passing stats were pretty bad in this one though.

2000- 17-23 OT loss @ Miami. In overtime, Manning drove the Colts down to the 29 yard line and their kicker missed a game winning FG. The Dolphins got a TD on the next drive. Can't blame this one entirely on Manning as he did get them into FG range to win the game.

2002- 0-41 loss at NY. This one was just bad. Really no defense for him here. Although it doesn't seem like his defense gave him much of a chance in this one regardless.

2005- 18-21 loss at Pitt. In this one, they were down 21-3 in the 4th and Manning led them on 2 TD drives to make it 21-18. He got them in position for a tying FG and the kicker missed it with under a minute to go.

2007- 24-28 loss to SD. Manning played pretty well in this game and they had a lead in the 4th quarter but their defense surrendered the winning TD to the Chargers soon after. Manning gets some blame for this one though because they had two more drives to potentially win it.

2008- 17-23 OT loss @ SD. The Colts led this one with under 2 minutes to play in the 4th quarter. The defense gave up a FG, then in OT SD won the toss and scored on the first drive to win. Manning had them in a position to win this one and the defense blew it.

2010- 16-17 loss to NY. Colts were up 2 with under a minute to go in this one and the defense gave up a last second game-winning FG. Yet another game in which Manning had the Colts in a position to win and his defense gave it up.

2012- 35-38 2OT loss to Baltimore. We all know how this one went. Manning had us in a position to win until the infamous Rahim Moore play.

So if you've been counting, his kickers missed 2 game winning/tying FGs in the last minutes and his defense gave up 4 TDs or FGs in the last 2 minutes or OT of games that Manning had given his teams late leads in. The only two you can really solidly put on Manning happened in 1999 and 2002.

Now this thread isn't to say that Manning hasn't had some bad performances in the playoffs, because he has, but it just goes to show that football really is a team game and even if a QB puts his team in a position to win it can still be blown by the kicker or the defense.

He's had mostly 'stinkers' in post season play.....his only good performance was the 2006 AFCCG comeback against NE, and that was riddled with ??? due to flu bugs and a run-away thermostat in the RCA Dome.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 10:04 AM
This thread isn't about Tom Brady. Please take your trolling elsewhere.

Ravage!!!
09-24-2013, 10:06 AM
Jingles, the more you post, the more I see a fan that is jealous of how well the Denver team is playing compared the the Patriots. The more you complain about Manning, the more obvious it is that you have "little brother" syndrome.

:lol: :lol:

TXBRONC
09-24-2013, 10:14 AM
Jingles, the more you post, the more I see a fan that is jealous of how well the Denver team is playing compared the the Patriots. The more you complain about Manning, the more obvious it is that you have "little brother" syndrome.

:lol: :lol:

And he's a dumbass troll.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 10:32 AM
This thread isn't about Tom Brady. Please take your trolling elsewhere.


OK, let's stick with your bogus synopsis of Manning's post-season career.

Why have you cherry-picked his post-season record of games, Wave? Even with that ploy, your theory falls short.....imagine if you included some of his real bombs like the 2003 AFCCG (against NE) in which your boy threw 1 TD and 4 picks at a 48.9% completion rate.....or the 2004 Divisional Game (again against NE), following Manning's record-smashing regular season no less! In this beauty, your guy DID improve on his completion %, upping it to 64%, while cutting back on his TOs (only one pick and one fumble), but failing to punch home a single TD, as the Annointed One and the Colts' juggernaut got embarrassed 20-3!

Oh, and let's not forget the NO Super Bowl Game, which you conveniently neglect to mention! I seem to recall that he played some tragic role in that defeat.....or did you think it was the kicker who let them down, again?

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 10:36 AM
This thread is about his one-and-done seasons since people like to constantly bring up that point against him. There is no doubt he put up some stinkers against NE and made a bad play against NO to lose it. However, this thread was strictly made to analyze the situations of his losses in those one-and-dones.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 10:38 AM
It's amazing how fans repress the facts surrounding the disparity between Peyton's regular season accomplishments (truly wonderful and awe-inspiring, when you look at that career) and his post-season performances, once he becomes your team's QB. Colts fans did it and now Bronco fans are donning the tinted specs.

Call it trolling if it makes you feel better about it, but that doesn't change the facts of the matter. Wave's post is a hoot.

Ravage!!!
09-24-2013, 10:40 AM
yeah.. and jingles is the epitome of indifference and reason. No obvious bias, whatsoever. :lol:

cmc0605
09-24-2013, 10:41 AM
The argument has always been weak, not just because it neglects the "team" aspect, but because I've never heard a compelling reason why Manning should become a different player simply because we call something "postseason," as if it's a different game. Bad luck, team issues, etc should be the null hypothesis going into this argument, and there's not a good enough sample size to say that he magically becomes a much worse player come playoff time. It doesn't even make sense.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 10:41 AM
For the record, I'm not one of the people who uses Brady's super bowl losses against him. I think they were both fluky losses that the Pats should have won. I always give the QB the benefit of the doubt when people try to pin team losses soley on their shoulders.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 10:42 AM
This thread is about his one-and-done seasons since people like to constantly bring up that point against him. There is no doubt he put up some stinkers against NE and made a bad play against NO to lose it. However, this thread was strictly made to analyze the situations of his losses in those one-and-dones.

OK, fair enough.

But regardless of where you try to access blame, I think you'll agree...he's been involved in a boatload of one-and-dones, for a guy who will be considered a candidate for the GOAT. Has any .QB ever been involved in more? I don't know

MasterShake
09-24-2013, 10:44 AM
OK, fair enough.

But regardless of where you try to access blame, I think you'll agree...he's been involved in a boatload of one-and-dones, for a guy who will be considered a candidate for the GOAT. Has any .QB ever been involved in more? I don't know

Elway had a pretty pedestrian playoff record until the back to back Super Bowl seasons. It just takes a few good runs.

Dreadnought
09-24-2013, 10:59 AM
I also think the Peyton Manning era Colts just really weren't all that good - apart from Mr. Manning himself. They did seem to miss him a fair amount in 2011, which may be a not unfair read on them.

Ravage!!!
09-24-2013, 11:01 AM
The argument has always been weak, not just because it neglects the "team" aspect, but because I've never heard a compelling reason why Manning should become a different player simply because we call something "postseason," as if it's a different game. Bad luck, team issues, etc should be the null hypothesis going into this argument, and there's not a good enough sample size to say that he magically becomes a much worse player come playoff time. It doesn't even make sense.

Not to mention, the fact that Manning is ALWAYS in the Playoffs seems to be neglected and forgotten. Steve Young used to get the same kind of crap when he was starting for the 49ers. Didn't make sense then, either. People tried to say that Elway "couldn't win the big one." Absurd. These obtuse phrases that mean nothing after a single game are SOOOO often used as fact. "Manning CAN'T win in cold weather." Thats stupid. It takes just one win in cold weather to make that "fact" complete BS. "Manning can't win the SUper Bowl"... they said that before he did.

You know who tries to spread this BS faster and stronger than anyone else? Those that don't like Manning. It's like anything else, if there is something that people don't like about a single person, then they focus on that as if it's the ONLY thing.

Watch jingles. He doesn't like that people keep referring to Manning as the GOAT because he's a Brady fan. He'll twist everything around to focus in on Manning's bad games, but then "twist" Brady's to blame everything else OTHER than Brady. After all, as you said in your post...a MULTITUDE of reasons can go into a team loss. But if Manning's team loses....its Manning's fault. If Brady's team loses, it's something else. Hypocrisy at its peak.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 11:37 AM
The argument has always been weak, not just because it neglects the "team" aspect, but because I've never heard a compelling reason why Manning should become a different player simply because we call something "postseason," as if it's a different game. Bad luck, team issues, etc should be the null hypothesis going into this argument, and there's not a good enough sample size to say that he magically becomes a much worse player come playoff time. It doesn't even make sense.

Part of me wants to agree, especially given the 'team' nature of the game. But it is irrefutable that Peyton's performances suffer in the POs.

I also think some of his notoriety in this regards comes about because of his direct association with the negative plays that end up in a defeat. For example, it is generally accepted that TOs are game changers and it's harder to win if you lose that battle. In 2003, Manning threw four picks vs 1 TD for example. In 2011, he threw a pick six against the Saints, basically clinching the game for NO.

Look, if Manning had simply not done enough in a game to actually assure a win, that's one thing, and I don't think we are having this discussion. Fact is, tho, he was the catalyst of his own ill fortune in most cases because he made so many plays over the years that turned the game around, as opposed to simply being a bystander when the crucial, deciding play took place.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 11:48 AM
Not to mention, the fact that Manning is ALWAYS in the Playoffs seems to be neglected and forgotten. Steve Young used to get the same kind of crap when he was starting for the 49ers. Didn't make sense then, either. People tried to say that Elway "couldn't win the big one." Absurd. These obtuse phrases that mean nothing after a single game are SOOOO often used as fact. "Manning CAN'T win in cold weather." Thats stupid. It takes just one win in cold weather to make that "fact" complete BS. "Manning can't win the SUper Bowl"... they said that before he did.

You know who tries to spread this BS faster and stronger than anyone else? Those that don't like Manning. It's like anything else, if there is something that people don't like about a single person, then they focus on that as if it's the ONLY thing.

jingles. He doesn't like that people keep referring to Manning as the GOAT because he's a Brady fan. He'll twist everything around to focus in on Manning's bad games, but then "twist" Brady's to blame everything else OTHER than Brady. After all, as you said in your post...a MULTITUDE of reasons can go into a team loss. But if Manning's team loses....its Manning's fault. If Brady's team loses, it's something else. Hypocrisy at its peak.

There are none so blind as those who will not see, Rav.... you could very well be speaking of your animus towards me, but you just don't see it.

How is it any different for those you point your troll meter towards, Rav?

And no, I don't speak with two tongues, Rav....I have carefully explained the difference between their performances. you just choose not to acknowledge the obvious.

Poet
09-24-2013, 11:51 AM
It's amazing how fans repress the facts surrounding the disparity between Peyton's regular season accomplishments (truly wonderful and awe-inspiring, when you look at that career) and his post-season performances, once he becomes your team's QB. Colts fans did it and now Bronco fans are donning the tinted specs.

Call it trolling if it makes you feel better about it, but that doesn't change the facts of the matter. Wave's post is a hoot.

You're actually worse at doing so. Reading your posts representing Brady's career is like having an acid trip and watching sportscenter.

Ravage!!!
09-24-2013, 11:52 AM
Four times he's handed the keys over to the defense with the lead with 40 seconds or left, and the defense blew it.

Twice he drove his team down the field to make the game-winning FG, and his kicker missed a fairly routine FG.

It's a team game, and Manning's teams have consistently let him down in situations where other quarterbacks have had their teams come through.

Manning has put his team in position to win 6 times that say...oh, don't know... Brady?.... might have won purely because of the part of the team that Manning isn't involved with have failed? Kicks and last minute defensive scores that other QBs like...oh... I don't know..... Brady?.... Have pretty much relied upon to get through the post season and Super Bowls.

That's interesting.

CoachChaz
09-24-2013, 12:18 PM
I'd be curious to see Brady's post-seasons without Vinatieri. How many rings do they have since he left?

MasterShake
09-24-2013, 12:26 PM
I'd be curious to see Brady's post-seasons without Vinatieri. How many rings do they have since he left?

Tuck rules are also an important part of post-season success!

CoachChaz
09-24-2013, 12:30 PM
Tuck rules are also an important part of post-season success!

Vinatieri also hit the game tying and game winning FG's in that game

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 12:30 PM
The thing that gets me the most is when he is criticized for ONLY winning one super bowl. There are numerous all-time greats like Marino, Kelly, and Fouts who would have killed for JUST one ring. I think the only reason it's a criticism at all is because his main rival in the era has 3 and his brother has 2.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 12:37 PM
I think we should discuss the 2009 playoff game where Tom Brady threw 3 picks and had a rating of 49.1.

Ravage!!!
09-24-2013, 02:45 PM
I think we should discuss the 2009 playoff game where Tom Brady threw 3 picks and had a rating of 49.1.

That wasn't his fault.

Ravage!!!
09-24-2013, 02:46 PM
The thing that gets me the most is when he is criticized for ONLY winning one super bowl. There are numerous all-time greats like Marino, Kelly, and Fouts who would have killed for JUST one ring. I think the only reason it's a criticism at all is because his main rival in the era has 3 and his brother has 2.

Manning is judged against his OWN success. He continues to have 10 win seasons and continues to get first round byes.. DAMN HIM!! How dare him have the audacity to only go to 2 Super Bowls and only to win 50%!!

The only ones that really "criticize" manning on this are those that try to discredit him, or just don't like him. New England fans... and Joel.

topscribe
09-24-2013, 02:53 PM
OK, let's stick with your bogus synopsis of Manning's post-season career.

Why have you cherry-picked his post-season record of games, Wave? Even with that ploy, your theory falls short.....imagine if you included some of his real bombs like the 2003 AFCCG (against NE) in which your boy threw 1 TD and 4 picks at a 48.9% completion rate.....or the 2004 Divisional Game (again against NE), following Manning's record-smashing regular season no less! In this beauty, your guy DID improve on his completion %, upping it to 64%, while cutting back on his TOs (only one pick and one fumble), but failing to punch home a single TD, as the Annointed One and the Colts' juggernaut got embarrassed 20-3!

Oh, and let's not forget the NO Super Bowl Game, which you conveniently neglect to mention! I seem to recall that he played some tragic role in that defeat.....or did you think it was the kicker who let them down, again?
Why are you trying so hard to put down Manning? You think, perhaps, it
makes Brady look better in the process or something? All of football views
Mannng as a future first-ballot HOFer. So what makes you think you can
come in with your displaced smack and tell us how bad he has been?
Really,your disruptiveness is getting old.
.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 02:55 PM
Manning is judged against his OWN success. He continues to have 10 win seasons and continues to get first round byes.. DAMN HIM!! How dare him have the audacity to only go to 2 Super Bowls and only to win 50%!!

The only ones that really "criticize" manning on this are those that try to discredit him, or just don't like him. New England fans... and Joel.

The worst is when people give him the backhanded compliment of calling him the "greatest regular season QB" of all time.

slim
09-24-2013, 02:55 PM
I think we should discuss the 2009 playoff game where Tom Brady threw 3 picks and had a rating of 49.1.

This sounds like fun.

Northman
09-24-2013, 03:16 PM
Cough cough cough cough

Ravage!!!
09-24-2013, 03:21 PM
The worst is when people give him the backhanded compliment of calling him the "greatest regular season QB" of all time.

Yeah.. thats just complete BS.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 04:55 PM
The worst is when people give him the backhanded compliment of calling him the "greatest regular season QB" of all time.

It depends on how you look at it, too, though. Because he IS the greatest regular season quarterback ever.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 05:00 PM
I'd be curious to see Brady's post-seasons without Vinatieri. How many rings do they have since he left?

And just how many has Manning won without AV, Coach...? C'mon, now...let's have a definitive response to the question, since YOU brought it up.

Careful, now, because if we are going to dissect this issue based on that ridiculous notion, I will be forced to remind you of Peyton's performance in the Divisional Round in the 2006 POs, the only year Manning has won a title, against the Ratbirds. He threw zero (0) TD passes (the exact same number of TDs, period, that the Colts scored that day) and was picked twice. AV saved his bacon, with 5 FGs. That's correct....Colts won that day on the strength of AVs leg, if you want to try to hand me that nonsense about Brady only winning when AV was there.

Poet
09-24-2013, 05:05 PM
This is what you proposed - Adam V made two SB winning kicks, but Peyton relied on him more because of a lone playoff game.

Jangs, you are unworthy of this website. Seppeku is your chance at redemption.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 05:08 PM
Who is Player A, and who is Player B?


P G GS Cmp Att Pct. Yards Avg. TD INT Rat
A 20 20 481 761 63.2% 5679 7.5 32 21 88.4
B 24 24 553 887 62.3% 5949 6.7 42 22 87.4

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 05:08 PM
Why are you trying so hard to put down Manning? You think, perhaps, it
makes Brady look better in the process or something? All of football views
Mannng as a future first-ballot HOFer. So what makes you think you can
come in with your displaced smack and tell us how bad he has been?
Really,your disruptiveness is getting old.
.

I think you're being a wee bit obtuse here, Top.....Wave brought the topic up, claiming that it was a "myth" that Manning underperformed in post season.



I begged to differ. It has nothing to do with how I feel about Manning....or Brady. Manning's record speaks for itself, and I say that he brought much of it on himself, as reflected in his numbers.

Deal with it, guys.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 05:09 PM
I think you're being a wee bit obtuse here, Top.....Wave brought the topic up, claiming that it was a "myth" that Manning underperformed in post season.



I begged to differ. It has nothing to do with how I feel about Manning....or Brady. Manning's record speaks for itself, and I say that he brought much of it on himself, as reflected in his numbers.

Deal with it, guys.

Wanna try that one again?

BroncoJoe
09-24-2013, 05:10 PM
It is one thing to be critical of a player - none of whom are perfect, and all deserve some criticism.

It's a far different thing to bash someone just for the sake of bashing, or out of hatred while failing to recognize or acknowledge their individual accomplishments and achievements.

It's pretty unbecoming, Bo.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 05:12 PM
The worst is when people give him the backhanded compliment of calling him the "greatest regular season QB" of all time.

Why..?

Surely you're not suggesting that people should be calling him the "greatest post season QB" of all time, are you?

I don't even know how respond to that POV.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 05:17 PM
This is what you proposed - Adam V made two SB winning kicks, but Peyton relied on him more because of a lone playoff game.

Jangs, you are unworthy of this website. Seppeku is your chance at redemption.

I haven't "proposed" anything about AV or Brady

I have merely responded to proposed POVs. Do try to keep things straight, there, King.

Poet
09-24-2013, 05:18 PM
I haven't "proposed" anything about AV or Brady

I have merely responded to proposed POVs. Do try to keep things straight, there, King.

I address what you really say and what you really mean.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 05:25 PM
Hall of Fame Quarterbacks (And two sure fire ones) and their performances in the playoffs since 1980 (Montana played in 79, I think)...


P G GS Cmp Att Pct. Yards Avg. TD INT Rat
Montana 23 23 460 734 62.7% 5772 7.9 45 21 95.6
Manning 20 20 481 761 63.2% 5679 7.5 32 21 88.4
Aikman 16 15 320 502 63.7% 3849 7.7 23 17 88.3
Brady 24 24 553 887 62.3% 5949 6.7 42 22 87.4
Young 20 14 292 471 62.0% 3326 7.1 20 13 85.8
Moon 10 10 259 403 64.3% 2870 7.1 17 14 84.9
Elway 22 22 355 651 54.5% 4964 7.6 27 21 79.7
Marino 18 18 385 687 56.0% 4510 6.6 32 24 77.1
Kelly 17 17 322 545 59.1% 3863 7.1 21 28 72.3


Manning hasn't underperformed. And basing it on two games and one pass, out of 20 games, is basically just stupidity at its best.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 05:31 PM
It is one thing to be critical of a player - none of whom are perfect, and all deserve some criticism.

It's a far different thing to bash someone just for the sake of bashing, or out of hatred while failing to recognize or acknowledge their individual accomplishments and achievements.

It's pretty unbecoming, Bo.

You know, this is getting a little old....all these types of accusations because people seem to take ANY critical comment as "bashing....hatred..." That's ridiculous.

I have simply responded to what I believe is a grossly inaccurate thread starting comment. Sorry if you disagree, and very sorry if perceive it as any thing other than a rebuttal.

BroncoJoe
09-24-2013, 05:33 PM
You know, this is getting a little old....all these types of accusations because people seem to take ANY critical comment as "bashing....hatred..." That's ridiculous.

I have simply responded to what I believe is a grossly inaccurate thread starting comment. Sorry if you disagree, and very sorry if perceive it as any thing other than a rebuttal.

Well, I'm not on here much, but I have yet to see you say anything positive about Manning.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 05:37 PM
He's had mostly 'stinkers' in post season play.....his only good performance was the 2006 AFCCG comeback against NE, and that was riddled with ??? due to flu bugs and a run-away thermostat in the RCA Dome.

This is so false, it's not even funny. It's just downright pathetic.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 05:42 PM
I address what you really say and what you really mean.


Do you read palms, too, Bro? :rolleyes:

Poet
09-24-2013, 05:51 PM
Do you read palms, too, Bro? :rolleyes:

No. I am a heterosexual man, bruh.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 05:53 PM
Well, I'm not on here much, but I have yet to see you say anything positive about Manning.

Well, how about this, Joe.

I am in awe of Peyton's performances thus far in 2013.
It is obviously the greatest start by a QB in history. He looks amazing back there, throwing completion after completion, making it look easy. Last night, his accuracy and perfection was spellbinding, and it could have been better if only his receivers had made a few more catches. Right now, Peyton is the man!

He does have tremendous weapons at his disposal, but that alone cannot begin to explain away his pinpoint accuracy and performance, IMHO.

Now, I wonder who among the Broncos faithful will be first to disagree or, at least, disparage my comments. :rolleyes:

GEM
09-24-2013, 05:56 PM
Well, how about this, Joe.

I am in awe of Peyton's performances thus far in 2013.
It is obviously the greatest start by a QB in history. He looks amazing back there, throwing completion after completion, making it look easy. Last night, his accuracy and perfection was spellbinding, and it could have been better if only his receivers had made a few more catches. Right now, Peyton is the man!

He does have tremendous weapons at his disposal, but that alone cannot begin to explain away his pinpoint accuracy and performance, IMHO.

Now, I wonder who among the Broncos faithful will be first to disagree or, at least, disparage my comments. :rolleyes:

You are on a Broncos message board, if you want to turn every positive Broncos thread into a steaming pile of dogshit, please do so in smack as us Broncos fans don't want all the negative shit, we would like to discuss our team with each other. If we are looking for some Boston opinion, we'll ask Pags. At least he has an enjoyable persona.

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 06:01 PM
Hall of Fame Quarterbacks (And two sure fire ones) and their performances in the playoffs since 1980 (Montana played in 79, I think)...


P G GS Cmp Att Pct. Yards Avg. TD INT Rat
Montana 23 23 460 734 62.7% 5772 7.9 45 21 95.6
Manning 20 20 481 761 63.2% 5679 7.5 32 21 88.4
Aikman 16 15 320 502 63.7% 3849 7.7 23 17 88.3
Brady 24 24 553 887 62.3% 5949 6.7 42 22 87.4
Young 20 14 292 471 62.0% 3326 7.1 20 13 85.8
Moon 10 10 259 403 64.3% 2870 7.1 17 14 84.9
Elway 22 22 355 651 54.5% 4964 7.6 27 21 79.7
Marino 18 18 385 687 56.0% 4510 6.6 32 24 77.1
Kelly 17 17 322 545 59.1% 3863 7.1 21 28 72.3


Manning hasn't underperformed. And basing it on two games and one pass, out of 20 games, is basically just stupidity at its best.

That's all well and good, MO....Why don't you start a thread for THAT debate, since this thread is about Peyton Manning, regular season QB vs Peyton Manning, post season QB.....not Peyton Manning vs Brady or anyone else!

I guessed you got so worked up, you missed that not-too-subtle difference.

If you start that thread, I'd be happy to debate you if I think there is anything to debate.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 06:04 PM
That's all well and good, MO....Why don't you start a thread for THAT debate, since this thread is about Peyton Manning, regular season QB vs Peyton Manning, post season QB.....not Peyton Manning vs Brady or anyone else!

I guessed you got so worked up, you missed that not-too-subtle difference.

If you start that thread, I'd be happy to debate you if I think there is anything to debate.

If you can't see the relevance that has to this discussion, it's not really my problem.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 06:05 PM
That's all well and good, MO....Why don't you start a thread for THAT debate, since this thread is about Peyton Manning, regular season QB vs Peyton Manning, post season QB.....not Peyton Manning vs Brady or anyone else!

I guessed you got so worked up, you missed that not-too-subtle difference.

If you start that thread, I'd be happy to debate you if I think there is anything to debate.

:lol: So now that someone shoots your pathetic argument down you don't want to talk about other QBs any more huh? You are a riot Bo!

GEM
09-24-2013, 06:09 PM
:lol: So now that someone shoots your pathetic argument down you don't want to talk about other QBs any more huh? You are a riot Bo!

It's too broad. :laugh: Narrow it down for the man, he's trying to make a point. :lol:

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 06:11 PM
This is so false, it's not even funny. It's just downright pathetic.

He must have missed Manning's playoff games against the Broncos.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 06:20 PM
I forgot Favre:
24 Games 481-791, 60.8, 5855, 44, 30, 86.3

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 07:01 PM
:lol: So now that someone shoots your pathetic argument down you don't want to talk about other QBs any more huh? You are a riot Bo!

Wave...I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you at least understand the issue raised by your own thread!

It has nothing to do with other QBs. It's about your so-called 'myth' that Manning hasn't actually underachieved in the post season..! HAHA... Dissect these numbers...

Peyton Manning's Career Passing Stats

W|L Att Com Pct Yards Yds/Att Long Td Int QB Rating

Reg Season 154-70 7800 5079 65.1 59465 7.6 86T 494 209 98.0

Post Season 9-11 762 481 63.1 5778 7.6 87T 32 21 88.8


Now let's interpolate some of these numbers, just so you get the full impact of how ridiculous the premise of your thread actually was, Wave.

REG SEASON POST SEASON
Interceptions/game .93 (< 1/Gm) 1.05 /Gm =13% increase in picks, postseason!

TD Passes/game 2.21/Gm 1.6 /Gm =38% better TD rate/Gm during REG SEASON!

Passer Rating 98 88.8 =10.4% better rating over career in REG SEASON vs POST SEASON!


What doesn't show up in these stats is the importance some of those picks were to the outcome of the POST SEASON games in question, and how they directly impacted the results, as opposed to just being the result of last minute desperation heaves trying to make something happen.

Now, with these numbers in mind, would you care to elaborate in more depth as to why Peyton's POST SEASON situation is a 'myth'? Or not.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 07:04 PM
Because in most of his first round losses, he put his team in a position to win late, and his defense or kicker blew it for him. That is more important that what stats he put up. And if you look at the stats Mo put up (which I can see why you wouldn't want to since it kills your argument), his stats are pretty much on par with the postseason stats of other all-time great QBs.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 07:06 PM
Wave...I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you at least understand the issue raised by your own thread!

It has nothing to do with other QBs. It's about your so-called 'myth' that Manning hasn't actually underachieved in the post season..! HAHA... Dissect these numbers...

Peyton Manning's Career Passing Stats

W|L Att Com Pct Yards Yds/Att Long Td Int QB Rating

Reg Season 154-70 7800 5079 65.1 59465 7.6 86T 494 209 98.0

Post Season 9-11 762 481 63.1 5778 7.6 87T 32 21 88.8


Now let's interpolate some of these numbers, just so you get the full impact of how ridiculous the premise of your thread actually was, Wave.

REG SEASON POST SEASON
Interceptions/game .93 (< 1/Gm) 1.05 /Gm =13% increase in picks, postseason!

TD Passes/game 2.21/Gm 1.6 /Gm =38% better TD rate/Gm during REG SEASON!

Passer Rating 98 88.8 =10.4% better rating over career in REG SEASON vs POST SEASON!


What doesn't show up in these stats is the importance some of those picks were to the outcome of the POST SEASON games in question, and how they directly impacted the results, as opposed to just being the result of last minute desperation heaves trying to make something happen.

Now, with these numbers in mind, would you care to elaborate in more depth as to why Peyton's POST SEASON situation is a 'myth'? Or not.

Those stats mean nothing unless you compare them to other quarterbacks and find a statistical baseline for regular season versus postseason performance.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 07:11 PM
Those stats mean nothing unless you compare them to other quarterbacks and find a statistical baseline for regular season versus postseason performance.

Imagine that. On average, QBs will put up worse numbers in the postseason than the regular season. It can't be because they are playing better defenses on average and the weather is usually worse. No way!

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 07:14 PM
Imagine that. On average, QBs will put up worse numbers in the postseason than the regular season. It can't be because they are playing better defenses on average and the weather is usually worse. No way!

Steve Young is the most efficient passer in NFL history, yet his rating dropped below Manning's in post season play. That must mean he severely underachieved in the playoffs, right?

Brady's rating dropped over 10 points, his average per attempt goes down, his touchdown percentage goes down, his INT rating goes up...he's an underachiever too...

Joker56
09-24-2013, 07:16 PM
Sheeesh... Manning suckzzzzz....
Yea , sure ....
I always hated him ,when his Colts beat the Broncos in the playoffs...
But ... i liked him as a great QB....
He was and is always a GREAT QB...

:salute:

Mr Bojangles
09-24-2013, 09:06 PM
Those stats mean nothing unless you compare them to other quarterbacks and find a statistical baseline for regular season versus postseason performance.

LOL....Neither of you know what you're talking about....it's ragtime.

What does Manning's performance comparison REG SEASON vs POST SEASON have to do with what other QBS have done, POST SEASON! That's total nonsense.

Both of you seem to have conveniently forgotten that Manning is miles ahead of those other guys career-wise in the REGULAR SEASON.

So you have inadvertently just confirmed MY point if you then claim he is on a par with them in POST SEASON performance!!

Unbelievable obtuseness at work there, guys!

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 09:37 PM
LOL, looks like Mr. Jangles finally got the ax.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 09:42 PM
LOL....Neither of you know what you're talking about....it's ragtime.

What does Manning's performance comparison REG SEASON vs POST SEASON have to do with what other QBS have done, POST SEASON! That's total nonsense.

Both of you seem to have conveniently forgotten that Manning is miles ahead of those other guys career-wise in the REGULAR SEASON.

So you have inadvertently just confirmed MY point if you then claim he is on a par with them in POST SEASON performance!!

Unbelievable obtuseness at work there, guys!

Nope. Have a nice vacay douche.

chazoe60
09-24-2013, 09:55 PM
Well this thread sure turned to shit.


I for one would take Manning over every QB who ever lived in a draft. What he has done in his career and what he is currently doing is nothing short of amazing. I look at him like Elway, a guy who took some ordinary teams to heights they wouldn't have achieved with any other QB in the game. Manning took teams to the POs that didn't really belong there and even won a SB with one of them.


He is the GOAT and I have the sneaking suspicion that over the next two seasons he will cement that legacy and make it a no doubter. Call me a homer or obtuse or whatever the **** you want but I've never watched a better QB and I said that well before he signed with Denver.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 10:26 PM
Well this thread sure turned to shit.


I for one would take Manning over every QB who ever lived in a draft. What he has done in his career and what he is currently doing is nothing short of amazing. I look at him like Elway, a guy who took some ordinary teams to heights they wouldn't have achieved with any other QB in the game. Manning took teams to the POs that didn't really belong there and even won a SB with one of them.


He is the GOAT and I have the sneaking suspicion that over the next two seasons he will cement that legacy and make it a no doubter. Call me a homer or obtuse or whatever the **** you want but I've never watched a better QB and I said that well before he signed with Denver.

It's unfortunate that he was allowed to continue on this long. He should have been given his first troll ban weeks ago.

Unfortunately, this is an interesting topic. I've provided some statistical data that reflects that Manning's performance in the playoffs versus the regular season is on par with other quarterbacks of his ilk, and actually above several quarterbacks I thought would surely be above him in post season performance.

Brett Favre is an interesting comparison, because he also only won one Super Bowl. But he was in the playoffs year after year after year.

Northman
09-25-2013, 05:03 AM
LOL, looks like Mr. Jangles finally got the ax.

BO knows how to get banned.

TXBRONC
09-25-2013, 08:11 AM
Thank you moderators maybe the timeout will help Bojangles to pull his head out of his butt.

PatriotsGuy
09-25-2013, 11:28 AM
You are on a Broncos message board, if you want to turn every positive Broncos thread into a steaming pile of dogshit, please do so in smack as us Broncos fans don't want all the negative shit, we would like to discuss our team with each other. If we are looking for some Boston opinion, we'll ask Pags. At least he has an enjoyable persona.

hehe GEM said she likes me guys <3

GEM
09-25-2013, 11:38 AM
hehe GEM said she likes me guys <3

Love me some Pags!

PatriotsGuy
09-25-2013, 11:40 AM
Love me some Pags!

♫ ♪ and I can't fight this feeling anymore ♪ ♫

Broncolingus
09-25-2013, 12:05 PM
Great opportunity now for Manning to shut up all these type discussions once and for all...

Northman
09-25-2013, 12:11 PM
♫ ♪ and I can't fight this feeling anymore ♪ ♫



Thought for sure it would be more like ♫ ♪ Jizz in my pants ♪ ♫

WTE
09-27-2013, 04:12 PM
hehe GEM said she likes me guys <3

Well GEM has held a grudge against me ever since Editgate* that's why she favors you.

GEM
09-27-2013, 05:58 PM
Well GEM has held a grudge against me ever since Editgate* that's why she favors you.

No, it's because when you get other ******** around you, you become one. No ******** around, you are a very enjoyable WTE.

WTE
09-27-2013, 06:05 PM
No, it's because when you get other ******** around you, you become one. No ******** around, you are a very enjoyable WTE.

I'm sorry GEM. I have troll blood but it only comes out at night.

Uh oh, the sun just set here in New England!

Waaaaaaaah!!!