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CrazyHorse
09-24-2013, 08:20 AM
Our pass defense hasn't looked very good. I'm not sure if it's because we go conservative and play soft zones with a lead, because Champ Bailey is missing, or we can't generate a pass rush without Von Miller. It's probably a combination of all three. We currently rank 30th in the league allowing 327 yards per game through the air. I find this a a pretty big concern. It's great to be able to score points almost at will, but all for naught if you can't prevent the other team from doing so also. We haven't evem faced any particularly explosive offenses this year either. I hope I'm not the only one that's noticed this. Let's hope we see improvements going forward and with return of some key players.

CoachChaz
09-24-2013, 08:27 AM
We had 3 sacks last night and if we werent facing such a mobile QB...we would have had more. Ayers had two of them and he was within inches on quite a few occasions. But...Ayers is a bad word here, so I wont expect too many people to acknowledge him.

Tned
09-24-2013, 08:29 AM
We had 3 sacks last night and if we werent facing such a mobile QB...we would have had more. Ayers had two of them and he was within inches on quite a few occasions. But...Ayers is a bad word here, so I wont expect too many people to acknowledge him.

Acknowledge who?

I thought Ayers really came into his own last year, and played very well last night. If not for Pror's mobility and ability to throw while in the grasp, Ayers would have had a couple more.

Dreadnought
09-24-2013, 08:31 AM
Our pass defense hasn't looked very good. I'm not sure if it's because we go conservative and play soft zones with a lead, because Champ Bailey is missing, or we can't generate a pass rush without Von Miller. It's probably a combination of all three. We currently rank 30th in the league allowing 327 yards per game through the air. I find this a a pretty big concern. It's great to be able to score points almost at will, but all for naught if you can't prevent the other team from doing so also. We haven't evem faced any particularly explosive offenses this year either. I hope I'm not the only one that's noticed this. Let's hope we see improvements going forward and with return of some key players.

I don't care about that YPG figure. Opposing QB rating is 75.4, 8th best in the League. They were 3rd best prior to last night, but Pryor threw pretty well and we got burnt for some big plays. Those will affect that QB rating

CoachChaz
09-24-2013, 08:32 AM
Acknowledge who?

I thought Ayers really came into his own last year, and played very well last night. If not for Pror's mobility and ability to throw while in the grasp, Ayers would have had a couple more.

I was talking about Ayers and said I wouldn't expect many to acknowledge his play. Apparently you are not one of the many. I guess I dont understand the question

vandammage13
09-24-2013, 08:46 AM
The pass D has left a lot to be desired, but I think the fact we have been up big in every game has forced teams to throw on every down and has skewed the numbers a bit.

Even accounting for that though, it does seem like the pass D is struggling and is the weak spot on the team just from what my eyes tell me.

It seems like we've been allowing a lot of YAC yards, particularly last night, which i think is more of a tackling problem than a schematic or coverage one.

GEM
09-24-2013, 08:51 AM
Keep in mind....when the pass D was getting passed on, Carter had gone off hurt, Nacho was off hurt and Webster was in there. Could be another layer in what happened last night as the team went into prevent.

The one thing I thought we had done some work on, but is rearing it's ugly head again is tackling. FFS wrap up, boys.

HORSEPOWER 56
09-24-2013, 09:07 AM
Eli Manning skewed the numbers quite a bit. He threw for over 400 yds against us but also threw a ton of picks.

I'm more concerned about the score. Our pass rush is extremely suspect right now. Sacks are nice, but a sack on 2nd down that brings up 3rd and 13 only to get zero pressure on 3rd down and allow a conversion doesn't really mean squat. Consistent pressure is the key, especially on 3rd down.

Also, that big TD pass to Moore was a fluke. Had our DBs not collided, it would've been a 20 yard gain, not a 70 yard gain.

Northman
09-24-2013, 09:08 AM
Also something to consider is we have been building up big leads so teams are forced to pass more to try and catch up. Im sure at some point Denver relaxes which allows more pitch and catch for the opposing team.

Rick
09-24-2013, 09:21 AM
Keeping a 4 man front more geared towards the run as we have now, bringing in Miller to start applying pressure, having a 4 man rotation of Champ, DRC, Harris and Carter(depending on injury), we should see those numbers go down some.

Really hope Nacho Cheese isn't hurt bad...

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 09:21 AM
It's definitely an area of concern. I'm not too worried though, because Champ should be back next week then Von soon after. We really can't afford to keep losing bodies in the secondary though. I hope Duke and Carter are ok.

SR
09-24-2013, 09:28 AM
I'm not as concerned. I guess what I care about is how well the defense plays when the score is still close when the opposing offense has more options other than just passing. Most of the opposing teams yardage has come through the air after the game was out of reach. That's going to happen. The yards and points against doesn't concern me at all because of the huge margins we have won by.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 09:31 AM
I'm not as concerned. I guess what I care about is how well the defense plays when the score is still close when the opposing offense has more options other than just passing. Most of the opposing teams yardage has come through the air after the game was out of reach. That's going to happen. The yards and points against doesn't concern me at all because of the huge margins we have won by.

It just baffles me how NFL teams constantly change the way they play defense in games in which they have huge leads. I seriously don't get it. I guess they know something I don't but why change what has been working for you on defense once you have a big lead. You KNOW the team is going to do nothing but pass, so it should make that easier to defend.

mrbusinesz
09-24-2013, 09:36 AM
Im not to worried about our defense giving up yards. One thing people have to realize besides the injuries, teams are forced to throw more trying to keep pace with our offense so that skews the passing numbers a little. If you look at Pryor's numbers, a big chunk of that came on one play. I don't think we can expect to completely shut down a teams passing game.

Rick
09-24-2013, 09:39 AM
Have to keep in mind also that games 1 and 2 were against 2 of the better QBs in the league, they will get some plays in.

Against Oakland I think we were more committed to stopping the run game and to an extent we let Prior take his shots.

LTC Pain
09-24-2013, 10:19 AM
I like how Kayvon Websters plays!

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 10:20 AM
I like how Kayvon Websters plays!

It seems like he goes for the big hit too much. It worked early in the game, but he tried it again later and the tackle was broken. He needs to learn to wrap up a little better.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 10:21 AM
Funny enough, the first tackle I was talking about came up in my rewatch of the game as I was typing this. He just launched his shoulder into the RB and didn't wrap up at all. He made the tackle, but a better player would have broken it. Overall Webster looked decent, but his tackling could improve.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 10:39 AM
Just watched the missed tackle Webster made. He tried to hit Marcel Reece up high shoulder to shoulder. Reece easily evaded the tackle. He definitely could have wrapped up or at least gone low to make the tackle easier.

cmc0605
09-24-2013, 10:56 AM
There's room for improvement, but good teams/defenses often finish near the top against the run and not great against the pass. Let's keep in mind that Flacco, Eli, and Pryor threw 62, 49, and 28 pass attempts, respectively. That's a lot. They usually did so from behind, often by quite a large amount. We're missing our top corner and the pass rush has been inconsistent at best. Carter injured last night. The team is backing off late in games in prevent mode. In this setup, there's going to be passing yards. No way around it. The interceptions in the first two games can't be forgotten in this discussion either.

I'm less concerned about the defense than others. No one is running on us. The scoring is less of an issue for me too: The refs handed the Giants a TD drive, the Montee Ball fumble and fluke missed tackle gave the Raiders 2/3 of their touchdowns. the other one was just good drive execution by the Raiders and a trick play that worked...props to them.

I'll take the position that the coaches/players tell the press...these are a lot of kinks that need to be fixed, plenty of room for improvement, but I don't see a glaring emergency here. Especially when Champ/Von return.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 12:12 PM
I know it's a typical reaction to want to find something to blame on the Broncos (all fans of all teams do it), but I just thought Terrelle Pryor had a fantastic night. He stood in the pocket and threw the football, moved when he needed to move.

Sometimes it's not that you're doing necessarily a bad job, but the other guy is doing a good job. He had a 67.8 percent completion percentage, 281 yards and a touchdown. That tells me he was also being smart with where he threw the football.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 12:17 PM
I know it's a typical reaction to want to find something to blame on the Broncos (all fans of all teams do it), but I just thought Terrelle Pryor had a fantastic night. He stood in the pocket and threw the football, moved when he needed to move.

Sometimes it's not that you're doing necessarily a bad job, but the other guy is doing a good job. He had a 67.8 percent completion percentage, 281 yards and a touchdown. That tells me he was also being smart with where he threw the football.

I agree Pryor looked good, but some of those completions, especially late, were to WIDE open receivers. Credit to him for finding them, but our D shouldn't have left them as wide open as they were. It seems like we were daring Pryor to beat us with the pass, and he certainly obliged a few times.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 12:21 PM
I agree Pryor looked good, but some of those completions, especially late, were to WIDE open receivers. Credit to him for finding them, but our D shouldn't have left them as wide open as they were. It seems like we were daring Pryor to beat us with the pass, and he certainly obliged a few times.

Maybe I've just become numb to it over the last five or six years, but NFL receivers are always WIDE open...

CoachChaz
09-24-2013, 12:21 PM
I was totally impressed with Pryor. He looked very patient and confident back there and made some really good throws.

MOtorboat
09-24-2013, 12:22 PM
I was totally impressed with Pryor. He looked very patient and confident back there and made some really good throws.

And could have been better if he had any receivers who are NFL caliber (I suppose Moore is...).

CoachChaz
09-24-2013, 12:23 PM
Maybe I've just become numb to it over the last five or six years, but NFL receivers are always WIDE open...

If they arent...it's a penalty

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 12:26 PM
Maybe I've just become numb to it over the last five or six years, but NFL receivers are always WIDE open...

I don't disagree with that, it just seemed like in some of those plays the WRs were even more wide open than you could reasonably expect even in today's NFL. There were plays where their WR didn't have a Bronco within 5 yards of him when making the catch. I don't care how much the rules favor the offense, that's still poor coverage when guys are that open.

BroncoJoe
09-24-2013, 12:41 PM
I know it's a typical reaction to want to find something to blame on the Broncos (all fans of all teams do it), but I just thought Terrelle Pryor had a fantastic night. He stood in the pocket and threw the football, moved when he needed to move.

Sometimes it's not that you're doing necessarily a bad job, but the other guy is doing a good job. He had a 67.8 percent completion percentage, 281 yards and a touchdown. That tells me he was also being smart with where he threw the football.

Sadly, I too was very impressed with Pryor. He's going to be good once he gets that experience and better talent around him.

topscribe
09-24-2013, 12:53 PM
We had 3 sacks last night and if we werent facing such a mobile QB...we would have had more. Ayers had two of them and he was within inches on quite a few occasions. But...Ayers is a bad word here, so I wont expect too many people to acknowledge him.
In addition, the Broncos were playing with a depleted secondary, with Champ
still out and Carter and Duke getting hurt in the game. And Pryor appears a
star in the making.

There were a couple times when I wondered how the receiver got so wide
open, but that happens in any game. I thought the pass defense generally
did quite will, considering the circumstances. DRC was a beast again.
.

topscribe
09-24-2013, 12:55 PM
I like how Kayvon Websters plays!
So much for the "reach" in the draft. Dude is going to be a good one, IMO.
.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-24-2013, 01:05 PM
Having Jacoby Ford healthy really helps them stretch the field. He beat Trindon Holliday in the SEC 100 yard dash. He also ran a 4.28 at the combine. He is super freaky fast.

SR
09-24-2013, 01:36 PM
It just baffles me how NFL teams constantly change the way they play defense in games in which they have huge leads. I seriously don't get it. I guess they know something I don't but why change what has been working for you on defense once you have a big lead. You KNOW the team is going to do nothing but pass, so it should make that easier to defend.

I agree. Changing the scheme based on the score makes no sense to me. If the defense played the same way with a 30-14 lead the yardage wouldn't be what it is. Like you, it confuses the ever loving outta me why the scheme changes.

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 01:38 PM
I agree. Changing the scheme based on the score makes no sense to me. If the defense played the same way with a 30-14 lead the yardage wouldn't be what it is. Like you, it confuses the ever loving outta me why the scheme changes.

Same for offenses too. I get that you want to kill the clock with a lead, but I hate when teams just run it up the gut three plays in a row to do it. I feel like you would see way less 4th quarter comebacks if teams didn't go into ultra conservative mode on offense and prevent on defense.

G_Money
09-24-2013, 01:55 PM
We had 3 sacks last night and if we werent facing such a mobile QB...we would have had more. Ayers had two of them and he was within inches on quite a few occasions. But...Ayers is a bad word here, so I wont expect too many people to acknowledge him.

Ayers played great last night. And has since the first week. Let me look, is it a contract year for him? *checks*

Yup. He was a one-year wonder at Tennessee to get into the first round, too.

Good year for him to need a new contract, though. I look forward to this kind of effort all year. Go Ayers! :salute:

~G

Ziggy
09-24-2013, 02:06 PM
The Broncos are putting up 42 points/game. Teams are going to have inflated passing stats all year long. As long as Denver keeps scoring and the big boys in the middle keep teams from running, the Broncos opponents are going to be passing to catch up every game. Del Rio and Manning have made every team one dimensional so far this season. I can't wait until Champ and Von get back. The more accurate stat to keep an eye on is +56. That's how much the Broncos have outscored opponents in the first 3 games. It's second in the NFL. Then again, the only stat that really matters is 3-0.

G_Money
09-24-2013, 02:08 PM
As for the pass D, mostly it's just game-planning. There are a few big plays being busted every week, but part of that is a lack of consistent QB pressure. As we blitz to bring pressure that creates deficiencies in the defensive backfield. We lost a corner and a safety on top of the HOF corner who's already out. I think we're doing fine. Teams will pass a lot on us. We stop them from running early, they have to throw late to catch up, and we have a lot of young guys back there in the secondary. Nacho is a 1st year starter, Webster's a rookie, Harris and Moore are both beginning their third seasons, but they were only expected starters last season, Carter's lost lots of time to injury...

It's a buncha kids trying to figure out how to play together on a team that lost both its best pass rushers from last year. They're keeping guys out of the end zone in the first halves when games are in doubt. I ain't worried about it. Our red-zone D looks pretty good, and if we hold other people to field goals while we score all these second half TDs, that's fine.

Let Champ and Von get back and get the young players all acclimated to their jobs and we should be just fine in the passing game. Our corners aren't getting run past, our safeties can tackle (except for last night when they had a bad habit of blowing up our corners on a couple of players instead of the ball carriers) and the effort and instincts are there.

We have the makings of a REALLY good defense over the next couple of years.

~G

CoachChaz
09-24-2013, 02:10 PM
Ayers played great last night. And has since the first week. Let me look, is it a contract year for him? *checks*

Yup. He was a one-year wonder at Tennessee to get into the first round, too.

Good year for him to need a new contract, though. I look forward to this kind of effort all year. Go Ayers! :salute:

~G

At the right price, I'd still bring him back as a rotational guy. But I guess that would require having a RDE worthy of starting ahead of him.

I'm curious to see what he can do when Miller comes back

BroncoWave
09-24-2013, 02:15 PM
Speaking of our defense, I know he was active last night but did Shaun Phillips actually wind up playing? I don't remember seeing him out there at all.

cmc0605
09-24-2013, 02:22 PM
Speaking of our defense, I know he was active last night but did Shaun Phillips actually wind up playing? I don't remember seeing him out there at all.

Yes he did. Had two tackles.

G_Money
09-24-2013, 02:24 PM
At the right price, I'd still bring him back as a rotational guy. But I guess that would require having a RDE worthy of starting ahead of him.

I'm curious to see what he can do when Miller comes back

Right, I'd be fine with him on a rotational-DE salary, especially if he can keep up this effort level (the lack of which is what got him demoted in training camp last year). He seems to finally understand what Del Rio wants from him and is doing it, now he just needs to keep it up. If he can provide consistent pressure when Von is getting the double teams in the second half of this year, that'll be huge for us. It's not like the dude isn't talented.

~G

BroncoNut
09-24-2013, 02:29 PM
someone correct me if I'm wrong, but was Gary Bussie in for a couple of plays on defense?

topscribe
09-24-2013, 02:46 PM
As for the pass D, mostly it's just game-planning. There are a few big plays being busted every week, but part of that is a lack of consistent QB pressure. As we blitz to bring pressure that creates deficiencies in the defensive backfield. We lost a corner and a safety on top of the HOF corner who's already out. I think we're doing fine. Teams will pass a lot on us. We stop them from running early, they have to throw late to catch up, and we have a lot of young guys back there in the secondary. Nacho is a 1st year starter, Webster's a rookie, Harris and Moore are both beginning their third seasons, but they were only expected starters last season, Carter's lost lots of time to injury...

It's a buncha kids trying to figure out how to play together on a team that lost both its best pass rushers from last year. They're keeping guys out of the end zone in the first halves when games are in doubt. I ain't worried about it. Our red-zone D looks pretty good, and if we hold other people to field goals while we score all these second half TDs, that's fine.

Let Champ and Von get back and get the young players all acclimated to their jobs and we should be just fine in the passing game. Our corners aren't getting run past, our safeties can tackle (except for last night when they had a bad habit of blowing up our corners on a couple of players instead of the ball carriers) and the effort and instincts are there.

We have the makings of a REALLY good defense over the next couple of years.

~G
You're apparently talking about the Raiders TD. Actually, I think that was
more the CB's (Carter, IIRC) fault than the safety's. The safety had the inside
of the receiver, and the CB should have stayed to the outside. Had he done
that, he and the safety would not have collided, and the receiver likely would
have been tackled right there.
.

G_Money
09-24-2013, 03:13 PM
Happened when Nacho hit the CB, and it happened when Adams did later in the game too. You're right, it's likely the corners' fault, but that's a kink to be evened out. I'm glad both guys were there to make the tackle... but then they need to make the tackle.

~G

DenBronx
09-24-2013, 05:48 PM
I didnt read through this whole thread so someone might have already mentioned this.

We are almost the worst in the league for pass defense but we lead the league in INTs. Seattle is 1st in the league in pass defense so playing a team like that would be the real test. However, we are leading the league in run defense, only allowing 45 yards per game on the ground. We just shut down the #1 rushing offense in the league in the NFL, McFadden couldnt get anything going. Also dont forget alot of teams are passing in garbage time when the game is already out of reach. There have also been a couple fluke plays like our DBs running into each other and allow Denaryius Moore to go 70 plus yards for a TD.


We should have this figured out by the time we get Bailey and Miller back. Not worried at all but would like to for us to play a high powered passing team to test us more. Dallas I think will be a better test.

Joel
09-28-2013, 07:49 AM
C'mon, ya'll. We all know defenses protecting big second half leads (which Denvers had in all three games) change for the very simple reason the trailing OFFENSES do. Football gives offense the lions share of advantages and initiative; offenses start every play and know their snap count (usually :tongue:,) simultaneous reception goes to offense and quarters can't end on defensive penalties. That's part of the problem with recent rules giving offense yet more needless advantages. The point is, however much we talk about attacking defenses, the reality and necessity is defense must react to offense.

So teams protecting big second half leads play the pass for the same reason they do on third and long: Because they know the offense MUST pass, so they must defend against passing. In that situation total passing yardage and scoring can and often does increase even when success RATES decrease. The offense is attempting far more big plays, so even though the D is playing that and the offense may fail more offten, when they DO succeed it's usually for a ton of yards and/or a TD.

It's a bit like counterterrorism: Defense must get it right every time; offense need only get lucky ONCE to score. Defense must guard the whole field; offense need only find one small chink in the armor. We've all seen defenses turn in big losses on back-to-back downs, then surrender a long third down conversion, sometimes just by the host of penalties awarding automatic first downs even for some fairly minor infractions. Just because teams run a Two Minute Drill for two QUARTERS doesn't mean the opposing defense is bad though.

Our pass rush is weak without Miller (as Mo helpfully showed, Football Outsiders ranks our line ninth worst against the pass,) but our secondary is stellar even with Champ sidelined. My sole complaint is many of them seem more concerned with crushing hits than securing tackles and deflecting/intercepting passes. Top receivers take pride in shrugging off big hits as long as they come after conversions or scores, and the league now hands out fines instead of awards for excessive hits on receivers unless they've already caught the ball and headed downfield.

Just because we're shelling teams so badly we go into Prevent halfway through the third quarter doesn't mean our pass D is awful any more than it means our #1 ranked run D is great. We ARE manifestly better against the run this year, but as long as opponents spend most of the second half always passing and never running the stat line will reflect that. Same way QBs throwing for 300+ yards used to be a sure sign they got badly beaten, and RBs rushing for 100+ was a sure sign of a win. It's important to be clear on which of those is cause and which effect.

TXBRONC
09-28-2013, 07:56 AM
The pass defense hasn't looked bad. The pass rush needs a boost but the secondary is doing it's job.

topscribe
09-28-2013, 10:12 AM
The pass defense hasn't looked bad. The pass rush needs a boost but the secondary is doing it's job.
Yes, the pass rush hasn't been shameful. But, boy, it will be good to get Von back in there . . .
.

Joel
09-29-2013, 07:52 PM
Yes, the pass rush hasn't been shameful. But, boy, it will be good to get Von back in there . . ..
I just hope that's enough, because we don't seem to get much pressure without blitzes; most of the time our solid secondary is good enough to get away with that, but against top passers and receivers in the playoffs we could be vulnerable if we still can't get there without a blitz. That's why it was nice seeing a sack on a guy as elusive as Vick with just our front four, but it would've been nicer in the first half, when they still had to respect the run rather than just pinning their ears back and charging the QB.

Hawgdriver
09-29-2013, 08:59 PM
our pass defense hasn't looked very good.

ok

;)

Broncolingus
09-29-2013, 09:15 PM
I think so far the pass rush has done better than expected with Von and Doom's absence...

...I don't think this current group of pass rushers would be able to do well consistently against the teams playing in Jan/Feb, but it's doing well enough to get the job done until Von get's back.

JMO...

CrazyHorse
09-29-2013, 10:57 PM
Can I complain that we're still giving up over 20 points a game?

SR
09-30-2013, 08:43 AM
Can I complain that we're still giving up over 20 points a game?

Don't know why you'd feel like you need to

BroncoNut
09-30-2013, 11:19 AM
I'm with you CrazyHorse, that might not be a good thing since I'm so dumb and all, but I'm sure if Zam were still allowed to post we'd have some representation. I sure as hell am not going to latch onto Coach's nutsack like a lot of fellow poster seem to have. I read the 3 sack opener and decided to stop there and comment on what I observed, and I can certainly relate to your concern as the visionary fan that you seem to be.

those 3 sacks came pretty late in the game, and early on our defense was not keeping Vick in the pocket. say what you want on Vick, he can convert with his feet when this occurs and he showed that yesterday. Philly had some pretty impressive drives early on and were definitely in this game longer than they maybe should have been. Our run defense is considered the best in the league, so they went to the air pretty effectively, I saw the same game I think. for a while I was thinking what in the heck? they weren't getting into the end zone, but they were moving the ball, is this the bend but dont' break mentality. Dbacks were playing soft I thought. I thought we were lucky to win by as much as we did. it seemed to take JDR awhile to adjust, or something. just like you say, what about when we play more effective offenseses. good post, good thread.

silkamilkamonico
09-30-2013, 03:53 PM
We're averaging over 40 points a game with arguably the most explosive/efficient offense of all time and some of you guys are concerned about our defense who's missing their 2 best players?

btw, for anyone not paying attention to the rest of the NFL, the Eagles are 2nd in the NFL in yards per game.

BroncoNut
09-30-2013, 04:42 PM
We're averaging over 40 points a game with arguably the most explosive/efficient offense of all time and some of you guys are concerned about our defense who's missing their 2 best players?

btw, for anyone not paying attention to the rest of the NFL, the Eagles are 2nd in the NFL in yards per game.

not necessarily a worry, but it's something worth observing Silka amilk. btw, great to see you posting again, long time

MOtorboat
09-30-2013, 05:06 PM
I'm not really worried about the Eagles JV scoring a late touchdown...

OrangeHoof
09-30-2013, 06:26 PM
It's nice that the defense only needs to get 4-5 stops a game and they'll win. The offense is so prolific that they don't need to be outstanding. They just need to get a few stops. Hopefully, when Von returns the D will show more spark but I'm not really worried - at least until we play Brady.

CrazyHorse
10-06-2013, 03:56 PM
Bump for future reference.

Krugan
10-06-2013, 06:15 PM
Pass Defense

Nope

LTC Pain
10-06-2013, 07:12 PM
Pass defense = invisible, pass rush/pressure = non-existent, CBs coach gets one hour in the woodshed! C'mon JDR, you got do something about this!

CrazyHorse
10-06-2013, 07:16 PM
Looks as though my concerns weren't completely unfounded. I can't wait until Von and Champ get back. Good thing we have the Jaguars next week.

atwater27
10-06-2013, 07:17 PM
I Denver's defense, they did a good job pressuring Romo, but he did an absolutely fantastic job of scrambling. I never knew he could move like that. He escaped several sacks.

SR
10-06-2013, 07:18 PM
Pass defense = invisible, pass rush/pressure = non-existent, CBs coach gets one hour in the woodshed! C'mon JDR, you got do something about this!

I'm not as concerned. Yes, Denver gave up a shit ton of yards and points passing, but that's all Dallas had. Denver's run defense was rock solid. Romo has a lot of weapons and today was clearly an off-day for most of our secondary, including DRC. This game was bound to be a shootout. Dallas was up for this game more than probably any other opponent we'll face this season. I think the defense will right some wrongs in practice, have a confidence booster game against Jacksonville, and play lights out against the Colts in Indy.

cmc0605
10-06-2013, 07:19 PM
I Denver's defense, they did a good job pressuring Romo, but he did an absolutely fantastic job of scrambling. I never knew he could move like that. He escaped several sacks.

They did an AWFUL job of pressuring Romo with the exception of a few plays. That is what this defense came down to.

On the upside, in the likely event we get past the Jags, we'll have Von back with a big donut in the losses column.

SR
10-06-2013, 07:20 PM
I Denver's defense, they did a good job pressuring Romo, but he did an absolutely fantastic job of scrambling. I never knew he could move like that. He escaped several sacks.

As far as pocket passers go, Romo and Rivers are probably the best scramblers in the NFL.

Ravage!!!
10-06-2013, 07:22 PM
ANY TIME you give a QB 7 seconds to throw the football, the QB is going to find an open receiver eventually. We couldn't get a pass rush at ALL, other than early on., and Romo was pitching a tent back there. Our DBs can NOT cover guys that long...especially when they have that kind of talent. Then we had to start blitzing to try and get some pass rush, and that would just leave 1-n-1 coverages. The pass rush was horrible.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-06-2013, 07:51 PM
I wonder if Ayers was hurt. He had a sack in the first half and didn't play in the second half.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
10-06-2013, 07:52 PM
We were missing 4 starters and our nickel back in the second half. I still like our defense.

Joel
10-06-2013, 09:19 PM
Yeah, it didn't get really pathetic until we lost Harris; after that Dallas was completely unstoppable. All through the tying TD drive I kept thinking, Even if we get the TD, Dallas will have just enough time to get into FG range and win it. To our Ds credit they did (finally) make a stop, and even get a turnover in scoring range, but there's no way we should've been playing catch up and needing a turnover to kick the game winner when we NEVER punted. Once Harris went out we found out quickly just how big a drop there is from him to Carter.

If either Champ or DRC leave next year I wouldn't be surprised if the other starts opposite Harris with Webster in nickel and the team hoping they don't need Carter at dime much (or maybe Bolden playing there.)

Our coverage is still better than our rush though. That last sack was huge since it played right into the game-winning pick, but that was pretty much it in the second half. We had three (IIRC) in the first half, but at least one was clearly a coverage sack. Now, I have no problem with coverage sacks, and prefer blanket coverage to heavy blitzes for precisely that reason. However, as others have noted, given enough time any NFL receiver will get open, and any NFL QB will find him. We need Miller back badly; I just hope it's enough, especially if Ayers misses much time (and someone else posted he was in a sling after the game.)

Simple Jaded
10-06-2013, 10:59 PM
Looked like Denver played a lot of zone in the 1st half, they're far better in Man. Cromartie had his worst game as a Bronco, add that to the injuries and I'm not worried about the defense at all.

jhildebrand
10-07-2013, 11:28 AM
I could have sworn slowick has been coaching the DB's again these last two games. Our DB's have been 10 yards off the WR on short down to go.

GEM
10-07-2013, 11:42 AM
I wonder if Ayers was hurt. He had a sack in the first half and didn't play in the second half.

He was in a shoulder sling in the locker room. Weird part...he went out with the injury, came back in and got a sack and then left again.

Joel
10-07-2013, 11:57 AM
Looked like Denver played a lot of zone in the 1st half, they're far better in Man. Cromartie had his worst game as a Bronco, add that to the injuries and I'm not worried about the defense at all.
Well, they're better in man because right now we rarely get pressure without a blitz, but they were better in the first half than in the second (a good argument injuries were a factor.) Just because Romo being Romo finally bailed us out doesn't change the fact they torched us for long TDs twice in the second half. The Tony Carter Fan Club needs to explain why he was giving up first downs and touchdowns with blown tackles.

On the subject of first half pass D though, I also don't understand how, even after how last season ended, our two defensive gurus haven't explained Prevent to our secondary: After scoring a TD with <1:00 left in the first half, letting Dallas heave a 40 yard pass into FG range is inexcusable. Do that enough times and eventually it'll cost us a(nother) big game.

Dreadnought
10-07-2013, 12:06 PM
Well, I am not quite ready to jump off of a bridge over the pass defense, and there were some injuries and absences you have to factor in, and Romo had a "John Wayne" day...but I am concerned.

Tony Carter stunk. I usually like him but he was simply bad. DRC looked awful a few times, but especially on that 78 yard pass where he was beaten like his name was Roc Alexander. The safeties didn't do much to boost my confidence, though I like those guys too.

I am hoping these were all temporary things. And next we have Blaine Gabbart to help our pass defense stats after all :D

CoachChaz
10-07-2013, 12:07 PM
Well, I am not quite ready to jump off of a bridge over the pass defense, and there were some injuries and absences you have to factor in, and Romo had a "John Wayne" day...but I am concerned.

Tony Carter stunk. I usually like him but he was simply bad. DRC looked awful a few times, but especially on that 78 yard pass where he was beaten like his name was Roc Alexander. The safeties didn't do much to boost my confidence, though I liek those guys too.

I am hoping these were all temporary things. And next we have Blaine Gabbart to help our pass defense stats on next after all :D

Gabbert minus his starting left tackle

BroncoWave
10-07-2013, 12:09 PM
Well, I am not quite ready to jump off of a bridge over the pass defense, and there were some injuries and absences you have to factor in, and Romo had a "John Wayne" day...but I am concerned.

Tony Carter stunk. I usually like him but he was simply bad. DRC looked awful a few times, but especially on that 78 yard pass where he was beaten like his name was Roc Alexander. The safeties didn't do much to boost my confidence, though I like those guys too.

I am hoping these were all temporary things. And next we have Blaine Gabbart to help our pass defense stats after all :D

I think Carter has been kinda poor for several games this year. He is definitely the weak link in our secondary. We really need a healthy Champ, DRC, and Harris. If Carter is having to cover a top 2 WR for the other team, that is a big advantage for the offense.

Dreadnought
10-07-2013, 12:16 PM
I think Carter has been kinda poor for several games this year. He is definitely the weak link in our secondary. We really need a healthy Champ, DRC, and Harris. If Carter is having to cover a top 2 WR for the other team, that is a big advantage for the offense.

10/15/2012. Tony Carter had a 65 yard scoop and score to turn around the Chargers game on Monday night. He later intercepted Philip Rivers setting up another TD. I can never fully turn against Tony Carter after that night!

But he sure played like hot trash yesterday.

BroncoWave
10-07-2013, 12:18 PM
10/15/2012. Tony Carter had a 65 yard scoop and score to turn around the Chargers game on Monday night. He later intercepted Philip Rivers setting up another TD. I can never fully turn against Tony Carter after that night!

But he sure played like hot trash yesterday.

Yeah, Carter is one of those guys who seems to always go for the big play. Sometimes it will lead to a big play like that, but other times it will lead to giving up the deep bombs that he gave up yesterday. While I love those big plays when they happen, I think I prefer the consistency you get form Champ, Harris, and DRC.

Joel
10-07-2013, 02:29 PM
Gabbert minus his starting left tackle
Seriously? Geez, Jax; has it occurred to ya'll losing 1-0 is better than losing 73-0? Just, y'know, something to consider.... ;)


10/15/2012. Tony Carter had a 65 yard scoop and score to turn around the Chargers game on Monday night. He later intercepted Philip Rivers setting up another TD. I can never fully turn against Tony Carter after that night!

But he sure played like hot trash yesterday.
I'd forgotten that, and you're right it deserves to be remembered always (he started a 24 point second half comeback.) Since then he's been mostly awful whenever matched against the best opponents; a decent dimeback and adequate nickel, but no good against the best, and I doubt that ever changes (though he's still young.) Hopefully Webster leapfrogs him on the depth chart soon, else that was probably a blown pick.

Dreadnought
10-07-2013, 03:07 PM
Per PFT, Blaine Gabbart will not play this weekend. We will face Chad Henne instead

Broncolingus
10-07-2013, 04:19 PM
...injuries caught up with us yesterday...

...the entire secondary, including DRC, had a poor game...it happens. Tony Carter, however, does not give me confidence is he's going to be on the field for any significant time...

...and, pressure from the DL was inconsistent and generally a non-factor (although, that was the key that led to INT...)

...all of that, plus the fact that Romo played an absolutely lights-out game yesterday.

Let's get thru the Jaxoff's game, get healthy during our bye, and see what happens for the second half of the season.

...STAYING HEALTHY, though after that, will be priority one!

Joel
10-07-2013, 06:33 PM
Let's get through the Jags game and get ready for Indy (and Washington) before we start looking at the bye. Indy's our first real test, especially since we'll have Miller (and hopefully Champ) back on the field; we'll need EVERYONE against two of the top three 2011 draft picks.

TXBRONC
10-07-2013, 06:48 PM
Let's get through the Jags game and get ready for Indy (and Washington) before we start looking at the bye. Indy's our first real test, especially since we'll have Miller (and hopefully Champ) back on the field; we'll need EVERYONE against two of the top three 2011 draft picks.

Facing Dallas was a real tests.

Simple Jaded
10-07-2013, 10:46 PM
Luck and Richardson were from the 2012 draft, Newton and Miller went 1-2 in 2011.

DenBronx
10-08-2013, 12:56 AM
The injury to Chris Harris was the straw that broke the camels back. We were winning 28-17 and then gave up big play after big play after that. The injury to Woody hurt but imo the Harris injury is what help Dallas get back in the game. Most still dont understand how much he helps this defense. Hopefully he will be ok for next week.

Joel
10-08-2013, 02:53 AM
Facing Dallas was a real tests.
If you say so. I'll never take Dallas seriously until they 1) dump Romo or 2) reach a SB (pretty sure which will happen first.) Probably until they dump Jerry; Romo might've developed into a decent QB on another team (he's got the tools, that nasty mental block just gets in the way.) They're a dangerously talented team, as I said all week, but only when they show up; maybe they did yesterday, or maybe our D was just bad.


Luck and Richardson were from the 2012 draft, Newton and Miller went 1-2 in 2011.
Right; wrong year (I knew they were both rookies last year, honest.)

TXBRONC
10-08-2013, 09:37 AM
If you say so. I'll never take Dallas seriously until they 1) dump Romo or 2) reach a SB (pretty sure which will happen first.) Probably until they dump Jerry; Romo might've developed into a decent QB on another team (he's got the tools, that nasty mental block just gets in the way.) They're a dangerously talented team, as I said all week, but only when they show up; maybe they did yesterday, or maybe our D was just bad.


Right; wrong year (I knew they were both rookies last year, honest.)

It's not if I say so it's fact. Instead letting subjective, emotional dislike get in the way of those facts watch the game. They were scored 48 point. They had the lead three different occassions and it took a interception by Trevathan with a minute and some change for Denver to pull out a win.

TXBRONC
10-08-2013, 09:39 AM
The injury to Chris Harris was the straw that broke the camels back. We were winning 28-17 and then gave up big play after big play after that. The injury to Woody hurt but imo the Harris injury is what help Dallas get back in the game. Most still dont understand how much he helps this defense. Hopefully he will be ok for next week.

Having Harris was huge but of three guys that went out yesterday the biggest loss was Woodyard because he is the leader of the defense.

CoachChaz
10-08-2013, 10:15 AM
It seemed to me that when we were containing Bryant the best...it was when Webster was covering him. I think that shows JDR has some confidence in the kid and I would hope his performance did the same within himself. That being said, I would hope that when Champ comes back, we'll be seeing Webster as relief and in the dime more than we will see Carter. That should be a positive.

Joel
10-08-2013, 04:36 PM
It's not if I say so it's fact. Instead letting subjective, emotional dislike get in the way of those facts watch the game. They were scored 48 point. They had the lead three different occassions and it took a interception by Trevathan with a minute and some change for Denver to pull out a win.
Saying Dallas was/n't a real test is an opinion, not fact; it's a subjective valuation by nature, not a verifiable one. There's a factual case for both, but accepting the conclusion is a matter of opinion.


It seemed to me that when we were containing Bryant the best...it was when Webster was covering him. I think that shows JDR has some confidence in the kid and I would hope his performance did the same within himself. That being said, I would hope that when Champ comes back, we'll be seeing Webster as relief and in the dime more than we will see Carter. That should be a positive.
I believe Collinsworth said early that the coaches said they'd put Webster on Bryant because his size matched up better. I only heard it once, and am not saying it makes SENSE (Webster's only 1" taller, and 1 lb. lighter, than Harris, though heavier (and shorter) than DRC,) but that was the comment. I wouldn't be surprised to see Webster pass Carter on the depth chart by seasons end.

In "fact," given the confidence our coaches have expressed in our young safeties and Ihenachos play since arrival, it might be hard for Carter to get playing time if Champ and DRC return next year. Not saying we should cut him, because he's not awful and injuries happen (as we've been reminded this year,) but he could be reduced to a backup dimeback. If our other DBs play well enough to force that, I won't complain.

TXBRONC
10-08-2013, 05:23 PM
Saying Dallas was/n't a real test is an opinion, not fact; it's a subjective valuation by nature, not a verifiable one. There's a factual case for both, but accepting the conclusion is a matter of opinion.


I believe Collinsworth said early that the coaches said they'd put Webster on Bryant because his size matched up better. I only heard it once, and am not saying it makes SENSE (Webster's only 1" taller, and 1 lb. lighter, than Harris, though heavier (and shorter) than DRC,) but that was the comment. I wouldn't be surprised to see Webster pass Carter on the depth chart by seasons end.

In "fact," given the confidence our coaches have expressed in our young safeties and Ihenachos play since arrival, it might be hard for Carter to get playing time if Champ and DRC return next year. Not saying we should cut him, because he's not awful and injuries happen (as we've been reminded this year,) but he could be reduced to a backup dimeback. If our other DBs play well enough to force that, I won't complain.

No it's not opinion it's fact and is no legitiment arguement that can be made to say it wasn't a real test.

Ziggy
10-08-2013, 05:33 PM
I'm just hoping that Del Rio quits playing this zone defense that's been killing us. The Broncos have the talent at corner and safety to play man to man most of the time. Add in Champ and a real pass rush when Von comes back and this will be a completely different D. At least I'm hoping so.

TXBRONC
10-08-2013, 05:45 PM
I'm just hoping that Del Rio quits playing this zone defense that's been killing us. The Broncos have the talent at corner and safety to play man to man most of the time. Add in Champ and a real pass rush when Von comes back and this will be a completely different D. At least I'm hoping so.

I don't that much zone. I think they played more zone against the Cowboys out of necessity.

Joel
10-08-2013, 05:47 PM
No it's not opinion it's fact and is no legitiment arguement that can be made to say it wasn't a real test.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact It's an abstraction, so lacks actual existence, and whether it's true information is debatable. Thus it's opinion, as is saying it permits no legitimate counterargument. An argument either way can cite many supporting facts (e.g. stats, roster, resumes, opponents) but none are conclusive after just five games, especially when both we and Dallas had key injuries Sunday.

TXBRONC
10-08-2013, 06:10 PM
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact It's an abstraction, so lacks actual existence, and whether it's true information is debatable. Thus it's opinion, as is saying it permits no legitimate counterargument. An argument either way can cite many supporting facts (e.g. stats, roster, resumes, opponents) but none are conclusive after just five games, especially when both we and Dallas had key injuries Sunday.

BFD you gave me definition you still did't prove anything other than you're full of crap. :welcome:

Bosco
10-09-2013, 01:32 PM
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact It's an abstraction, so lacks actual existence, and whether it's true information is debatable. Thus it's opinion, as is saying it permits no legitimate counterargument. An argument either way can cite many supporting facts (e.g. stats, roster, resumes, opponents) but none are conclusive after just five games, especially when both we and Dallas had key injuries Sunday.

LOL...TX gets schooled again.

G_Money
10-09-2013, 01:50 PM
It seemed to me that when we were containing Bryant the best...it was when Webster was covering him. I think that shows JDR has some confidence in the kid and I would hope his performance did the same within himself. That being said, I would hope that when Champ comes back, we'll be seeing Webster as relief and in the dime more than we will see Carter. That should be a positive.

DRC and Champ on the edges, Harris at Nickel and Webster in some dime looks would be fabulous. I haven't heard any news on Harris - this isn't gonna be a lingering concussion thing like Porter last year, right? That could REALLY hurt us (and I thought I heard he was out of today's practice too... not that we need him against J-Ville). Webster has a load of potential, but not enough experience for me to be thrilled about seeing him for that many snaps.

~G

CrazyHorse
10-13-2013, 06:26 PM
Well, we finally held a team to less than 20 points. It just so happened to be the one with the worth offense in the NFL.

ShaneFalco
10-13-2013, 07:06 PM
Defense was fine, no need to panic. Blackmon is good and so is MJD. Holding a team to 12 offensive points is fine with me.