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BroncoWave
09-16-2013, 05:23 PM
Since I have the NFL Rewind service I figured I would put it to good use and go back and analyze the games in some way. Since a lot of us (myself included) seemed to think the officiating sucked balls in this game, I went back and looked at all the flags and the notable plays with no flags (like Decker's jersey getting pulled no-call) to see just how bad the refs really were and if it was really that one-sided. I also wanted to see if we are being too hard on Carter for his PI calls. I tried to be as objective as possible and this is what I came up with:

1st quarter:

Opening kickoff- Illegal block in the back. They didn't show a replay and I couldn't see the player it was called on, so I can't rate this one. Usually block in the back is an obvious call though, so I will give them this one.

6:40- Pass interference on Decker. This was a pretty bad call. Decker was nowhere near where Manning threw the ball and it looked like minimal contact at best. Very ticky tack and probably should not have been called.

4:47- No call where Decker looked interfered with. Definitely looked like his jersey was grabbed and his arm was hooked. There were lesser PIs than this that were called. Bad missed call here.

0:21- No call on bang-bang play with DRC and a WR. Could have been called PI, but the ref made the right call in not flagging it. Very minimal contact and did not interfere with the attempt to catch it.

2nd quarter:

12:29- Illegal touching on Victor Cruz. Correct call here as he went out of bounds and was first to touch ball upon coming in.

11:18- Ineligible man downfield on Orlando Franklin. Correct call here. O-linemen went past the LOS before the foward pass without engaging a defender. (I had to look this rule up, because I thought the rule was a lineman couldn't be more than 5 or 10 yards downfield before the pass. But if you don't engage a defender, you can't cross the LOS at all.

7:46- Illegal contact on Duke. This was the play that was called back where we recovered their fumble in the endzone. Good call here. Duke flat out shoved the TE to the ground before the pass was thrown. Not really sure what he was thinking. Probably just an over-aggressive mistake by a young player.

7:01- Victor Cruz complained wanting PI in the endzone. Refs were correct in not making the call. Harris played the ball perfectly.

4:37- Holding on Chris Harris. CBS did a horrible job showing a replay of this. Since holding happens before the pass, you need to see what the CB does at the beginning of the route. Every angle CBS showed didn't show Harris and Cruz until after the ball was thrown. Without a better angle, I can't say if this was a good call or not.

0:57- Neutral zone infraction on NY. Correct call here.

0:16- PI on DRC. While DRC did slightly hook him the ball was at least 10 yards away from the WR. Not a catchable pass. Bad call here IMO.

3rd quarter:

7:34- PI on Carter. This is one of the calls that made me most interested in doing this. While he did briefly look back at the ball, he made no play on it and he pushed the WR toward the sideline. Definitely the right call here IMO.

5:18- Hands to the face penalty on Vickerson. Looked like the right call, but was hard to tell for sure with CBS's angle.

3:35- PI on DRC- Horrible call. DRC played the ball perfectly and didn't hit or grab the WR. This led to a TD by NY.

3:26- Taunting on Denver. This one seemed really ticky-tack. We don't have access to that the player said, but it just seemed like an unnecessary flag.

0:42- Neutral zone infraction on NY. Good call here.

4th quarter:

5:06- Personal foul on Moore. As I said in this other thread, it's just impossible to tell if it was helmet to helmet at full speed. I had no issue with them making the call, but the replay did show that it was the wrong one.

4:10- Holding on Carter. Here is the second big penalty involving Carter. Absolutely the correct call as Carter grabbed the jersey of the WR.

3:59- Illegal touching on NY. This was on the onside kick. Correct call by the ref.

1:05- And the third PI on Carter. This was the closest call. Carter did briefly look back for the ball, but he still made contact with the WR while it was in the air. Maybe they could have let it go, but I think it was the right call.



So overall, the refs did get most of the calls right in the game, but every single one that was close or that they missed benefited the Giants. Denver certainly got the short end of the stick from the refs in this one.

As for Tony Carter, two of the 3 PI calls were absolutely correct, and the third was close by still the right call IMO. DRC really got fleeced by the refs in this one. Both PI calls against him were poor IMO.

I put the time and quarter on every call so that anyone else rewatching the game can go back and see if they agree or disagree with me. I tired to be as objective as possible on every one of these calls. If anyone disagrees with my analysis of any of the calls please let me know.

DenBronx
09-16-2013, 05:26 PM
The refs were so partial to the Giants Sunday.



Thanks for breaking down each penalty.

BroncoWave
09-16-2013, 05:32 PM
The refs were so partial to the Giants Sunday.



Thanks for breaking down each penalty.

No problem. Tried to throw in a few no-calls to analyze them as well. As I said, the refs did get a large chunk of the calls right, but every one they missed screwed Denver pretty badly. Pretty impressive we won by so much given all the calls against us.

Dzone
09-16-2013, 05:40 PM
Carter had 3 PIs? Good grief. Is he that much better than anyone else on the roster? Is Quintin Jammer history? He has to be better than carter

Slick
09-16-2013, 05:40 PM
I'm rewatching it now.

Ziggy
09-16-2013, 06:24 PM
Carter had 3 PIs? Good grief. Is he that much better than anyone else on the roster? Is Quintin Jammer history? He has to be better than carter

He's a 4th corner covering Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks at times. If you don't expect the Giants to win that matchup against any 4th corner in the league, you're crazy.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-16-2013, 06:37 PM
With the Broncos getting penalized 13 times to the Giants getting penalized only 3 times, it appears to me that the refs were watching the Broncos way more than they were the Giants.

Broncolingus
09-16-2013, 09:11 PM
There seemed to be a more than usual 'homer' slant...esp. on that one touchdown drive.

Carter needs to learn how to fix his technique and get his head around...

...that said, I sure saw a lot of tight 'blocking' by the Giants OL -- esp. in the second half.

We got out with the win so meh...

...wish we'd stayed healthier though :tsk:

BroncoWave
09-16-2013, 09:16 PM
More than just getting his head around, Carter needs to learn to make a play on the ball instead of the WR. On his two deep PI penalties, he did look back at the ball on both of them, but in neither one did he actually make a play on the ball. He had his arms all over the WR on both of them. The refs are gonna call that every time.

Army Bronco
09-16-2013, 10:31 PM
With the Broncos getting penalized 13 times to the Giants getting penalized only 3 times, it appears to me that the refs were watching the Broncos way more than they were the Giants.This is what I was thinking. I'm sure they missed a plethora of penalties by the Giants. Not one offensive holding by the Giants? Really? In my opinion there was a late hit on Peyton but I know that was probably my biased eye.

LawDog
09-17-2013, 01:22 AM
More than just getting his head around, Carter needs to learn to make a play on the ball instead of the WR. On his two deep PI penalties, he did look back at the ball on both of them, but in neither one did he actually make a play on the ball. He had his arms all over the WR on both of them. The refs are gonna call that every time.

The 7:34 of the third qtr I still disagree. Look at the cbs feed, the last replay they show is from the near sideline, Carter and the receiver are facing each other and both looking back at the ball. They have hands on each other and as soon as Carter starts turning his head back forward he pulls his right hand back from the receiver and the ball passes well to the inside of them. He is not pushing the receiver to the sideline and the ball is not thrown well - not back shoulder nor to the front of the receiver. Bad call. on balance Carter played very well - for example watch his play on the interception by Rahim in the endzone, great position behind the receiver and able to make a play to swat the ball away should Moore have missed the Int. The hold on the crossing pattern was blatent but otherwise I think he did an outstanding job. In my humble opinion...

EastCoastBronco
09-17-2013, 07:08 AM
Good analysis but that mess at the goal line in the third quarter decided it for me.
My son's high school team could score with 3 first downs from inside the 5.
We are lucky we have a high powered offence.
This would be a very hot topic if we had lost this game by 3 or something along those lines.

BroncoWave
09-17-2013, 07:15 AM
The 7:34 of the third qtr I still disagree. Look at the cbs feed, the last replay they show is from the near sideline, Carter and the receiver are facing each other and both looking back at the ball. They have hands on each other and as soon as Carter starts turning his head back forward he pulls his right hand back from the receiver and the ball passes well to the inside of them. He is not pushing the receiver to the sideline and the ball is not thrown well - not back shoulder nor to the front of the receiver. Bad call. on balance Carter played very well - for example watch his play on the interception by Rahim in the endzone, great position behind the receiver and able to make a play to swat the ball away should Moore have missed the Int. The hold on the crossing pattern was blatent but otherwise I think he did an outstanding job. In my humble opinion...

It doesn't matter if he took a hand off the WR as the ball was coming in. He still had his hands all over him while the ball was in the air. Taking a hand off at the last second doesn't mean it's not PI. And Carter was not watching the ball as it came in. He glanced back for a second then turned back toward the WR. I'm sorry, but I don't know what universe that isn't PI in.

You can't just look back for a second then continue to face the WR. You have to turn your BODY toward the ball and make a play on it. Carter made zero play on the ball and faced the WR when it came in. Even if both guys are making contact with each other, they will ALWAYS call it on the defense if the defender is playing the WR instead of the ball.

BroncoWave
09-17-2013, 07:16 AM
Good analysis but that mess at the goal line in the third quarter decided it for me.
My son's high school team could score with 3 first downs from inside the 5.
We are lucky we have a high powered offence.
This would be a very hot topic if we had lost this game by 3 or something along those lines.

Yeah, that sequence of plays was horrible. Really bad PI call on DRC and very ticky tack taunting call on Vickerson.

CoachChaz
09-17-2013, 07:58 AM
The officiating in most of the games this weekend sucked. It happens. The team got over it. We won. Period.

BroncoWave
09-17-2013, 08:02 AM
The officiating in most of the games this weekend sucked. It happens. The team got over it. We won. Period.

For the record, I wasn't making this thread to complain about the refs. I just thought it would be interesting to objectively analyze how they did.

CoachChaz
09-17-2013, 08:05 AM
For the record, I wasn't making this thread to complain about the refs. I just thought it would be interesting to objectively analyze how they did.

I get it. But not necessarily by your own accord...that's what it turned into.

LawDog
09-17-2013, 10:06 AM
I get it. But not necessarily by your own accord...that's what it turned into.

Well, this coupled with the other thread is leaning toward "the refs were fine, Carter sucked" and I was merely rebutting that...

The Glue Factory
09-17-2013, 03:05 PM
There seemed to be a more than usual 'homer' slant...esp. on that one touchdown drive.

Carter needs to learn how to fix his technique and get his head around...

...that said, I sure saw a lot of tight 'blocking' by the Giants OL -- esp. in the second half.

We got out with the win so meh...

...wish we'd stayed healthier though :tsk:


This game shows how to win in spite of the refs. If bad calls by the refs are a major contributor to a team's loss, then that team wasn't playing well enough to win in the first place. As I tell friends, if you don't want the refs impacting the game, play good enough that they don't.

CoachChaz
09-17-2013, 03:07 PM
Well, this coupled with the other thread is leaning toward "the refs were fine, Carter sucked" and I was merely rebutting that...

I'd say the refs sucked and Carter needs to stay a dime back.

BroncoWave
09-17-2013, 03:17 PM
Well, this coupled with the other thread is leaning toward "the refs were fine, Carter sucked" and I was merely rebutting that...

Except no one is saying this. As you will see in my first post, I debated several of the refs calls, including multiple pass interference ones. I just think the three on Carter were calls they happened to get correct.

LawDog
09-17-2013, 05:24 PM
Except no one is saying this. As you will see in my first post, I debated several of the refs calls, including multiple pass interference ones. I just think the three on Carter were calls they happened to get correct.

I'm guessing you don't see the irony in that statement. Ah well. Off to next week and the Raiders!

BroncoWave
09-17-2013, 06:01 PM
I'm guessing you don't see the irony in that statement. Ah well. Off to next week and the Raiders!

:noidea: I guess I don't see the irony.