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View Full Version : Should Woodyard stay the MLB when Von gets back?



G_Money
09-16-2013, 12:05 PM
Through the first couple of games, the DL is doing a GREAT job of keeping the trash off our slender LBs and letting them flow to the ball and make plays. Woodyard is far from a thumper against the run but nobody's running on us yet and Woody is a better LB than Irving.

It also looks like Trevathan is better as a Will than Irving is as a Mike, which means our 3 best LBs seem to be Von, Woodyard and Trevathan.

So should we ignore the bulk argument that middle linebackers can't be 225 pounds and use our slight-but-fast LB corps to continue to run down all the plays once Miller is back on the field?

Just curious.

~G

zbeg
09-16-2013, 12:07 PM
Through the first couple of games, the DL is doing a GREAT job of keeping the trash off our slender LBs and letting them flow to the ball and make plays. Woodyard is far from a thumper against the run but nobody's running on us yet and Woody is a better LB than Irving.

It also looks like Trevathan is better as a Will than Irving is as a Mike, which means our 3 best LBs seem to be Von, Woodyard and Trevathan.

So should we ignore the bulk argument that middle linebackers can't be 225 pounds and use our slight-but-fast LB corps to continue to run down all the plays once Miller is back on the field?

Just curious.

~G

I worry about small-but-light wearing down as the season goes on, especially since the defense is playing more series in a shorter period of time due to Denver's fast-paced offense, no?

G_Money
09-16-2013, 12:10 PM
I dunno, I think smaller LBs who aren't getting hit by big OL would hold up better to a faster pace with more running than the bigger LBs would. I'm more worried about our mammoth DTs in that case.

~G

gregbroncs
09-16-2013, 12:12 PM
I like it. Then you always have Irving for depth.

claymore
09-16-2013, 12:13 PM
Through the first couple of games, the DL is doing a GREAT job of keeping the trash off our slender LBs and letting them flow to the ball and make plays. Woodyard is far from a thumper against the run but nobody's running on us yet and Woody is a better LB than Irving.

It also looks like Trevathan is better as a Will than Irving is as a Mike, which means our 3 best LBs seem to be Von, Woodyard and Trevathan.

So should we ignore the bulk argument that middle linebackers can't be 225 pounds and use our slight-but-fast LB corps to continue to run down all the plays once Miller is back on the field?

Just curious.

~G
I read a quote, or saw an interview that stated that they put Woodyard in because the other linebacker was screwing up the defensive calls. They tried it in the pre-season, or last season and had to put Woodyard back in. To be honest I assumed they were talking about DJ last year. So, take that with a grain of salt. The comment was made though, but the linebacker that was screwing up at MLB was not named.

WARHORSE
09-16-2013, 12:20 PM
We seem to be stopping the run just fine with our front seven. The Dline is doing a great job leaving the LBers free to use their speed.


Trevathan is a playmaker. I think he stays at will, Woodyard at Mike and Von back at SLB. This brings alot of versatility to this three. All three can drop the QB. All three can drop.

All three are fast and quick to diagnose with Von being the weakest in that area imo.

But when it comes to pressuring the QB.........Von is in a league by himself.


I cant wait.

G_Money
09-16-2013, 12:20 PM
Woodyard has never given up the green dot, Clay. He made the calls regardless of whether Von or a MLB was in there.

Maybe they meant in the pre-season when Woodyard was on the sidelines after his quarter of play. If the new guy with the dot can't get it right then none of the guys on the field can be in the right places for proper evaluation. That would suck - definitely would have to fix that.

But Wes is pretty vital to us. I'd hate to lose him for 6 games, that's for sure.

~G

Dreadnought
09-16-2013, 12:20 PM
Through the first couple of games, the DL is doing a GREAT job of keeping the trash off our slender LBs and letting them flow to the ball and make plays. Woodyard is far from a thumper against the run but nobody's running on us yet and Woody is a better LB than Irving.

It also looks like Trevathan is better as a Will than Irving is as a Mike, which means our 3 best LBs seem to be Von, Woodyard and Trevathan.

So should we ignore the bulk argument that middle linebackers can't be 225 pounds and use our slight-but-fast LB corps to continue to run down all the plays once Miller is back on the field?

Just curious.

~G

Sure seems to be working for now, and almost nobody is running the ball with any power or authority this year so far. I like the idea of having small fast sure tackling LB's when we face Washington and Philly later on, not to mention coverage on the likes of Antonio Gates

G_Money
09-16-2013, 12:24 PM
It seems like it would make it easier for us to disguise our looks. Woodyard isn't the lone cover LB anymore in that case, it could be him or Trevathan. One or both could blitz while Von drops back to mess up pass protections. We showed last night we're willing to stunt and cross a LB or two on the way to the backfield.

And like you said, Dread, we'll want guys on the field who can tackle in space. Playing one of our Wills at Mike would help.

~G

Dreadnought
09-16-2013, 12:30 PM
It seems like it would make it easier for us to disguise our looks. Woodyard isn't the lone cover LB anymore in that case, it could be him or Trevathan. One or both could blitz while Von drops back to mess up pass protections. We showed last night we're willing to stunt and cross a LB or two on the way to the backfield.

And like you said, Dread, we'll want guys on the field who can tackle in space. Playing one of our Wills at Mike would help.

~G

Its a chance to be a little more creative and aggressive on defense. Trevathan and Woodyard can do some stuff you might normally need to deploy extra DB's to do

dogfish
09-16-2013, 12:37 PM
yes. . .


:defense:

BroncoNut
09-16-2013, 12:38 PM
Von who?

(in case no one has posted that yet)

interesting question. our d is basically assembled as a 4 - 3, I'd like to see Woody stay at the Mike and put Von at DE, move ayers to the Sam and Nacho to free safety. I'll have to think on the rest. I like our speedy linebackers as they are.

CoachChaz
09-16-2013, 12:43 PM
We've given up 81 yards on 40 carries so far. I think we'll be alright. The only thing that could be a concern is goal line situations. That's where the beef will come in handy

LTC Pain
09-16-2013, 12:47 PM
Von and Woody will certainly be on the field. It boils down to who the coaching staff thinks will contribute the most as the 3rd LB.

Rick
09-16-2013, 12:48 PM
I have been arguing for Woody to be MLB even back when we started the 3-4.

I could careless if the dude is 50lbs, the dude is ALWAYS around the ball making a play(same seems to be with Trevathan).

claymore
09-16-2013, 12:51 PM
Woodyard has never given up the green dot, Clay. He made the calls regardless of whether Von or a MLB was in there.

Maybe they meant in the pre-season when Woodyard was on the sidelines after his quarter of play. If the new guy with the dot can't get it right then none of the guys on the field can be in the right places for proper evaluation. That would suck - definitely would have to fix that.

But Wes is pretty vital to us. I'd hate to lose him for 6 games, that's for sure.

~G

I assumed from the conversation that it was DJ Williams that came back from his suspension, they gave the starting role back to him, then took it away again. But, the conversation was there, they took it away from woodyard, then had to give it back right away.

rationalfan
09-16-2013, 01:02 PM
I read a quote, or saw an interview that stated that they put Woodyard in because the other linebacker was screwing up the defensive calls. They tried it in the pre-season, or last season and had to put Woodyard back in. To be honest I assumed they were talking about DJ last year. So, take that with a grain of salt. The comment was made though, but the linebacker that was screwing up at MLB was not named.

if we're thinking of the same thing, it was an anecdote collinsworth shared during the ravens game in week 1. if i recall correctly, mays was making the calls in the defensive huddle last year but when he got demoted they gave woodyard the "green dot" and haven't relinquished it because he organized the D in a such an effective manner.

MOtorboat
09-16-2013, 01:08 PM
Remember when Von gets back, the defense will go to more over formations, with Von up on the line. It puts the other two linebackers in more of a nickel situation, so I'm not sure "middle" linebacker really is a necessary term to use with this defense.

We know Woodyard is one of those two linebackers. I think the question is who is the other? Right now, Trevathan is the leader in the clubhouse, IMO.

Joel
09-16-2013, 01:10 PM
Woodyard's not our starting Mike because of injuries or suspensions: Irving wasn't getting it done. No reason to think that will change when Miller's back, however much a safety-sized MLB scares me against the run.

topscribe
09-16-2013, 01:11 PM
Through the first couple of games, the DL is doing a GREAT job of keeping the trash off our slender LBs and letting them flow to the ball and make plays. Woodyard is far from a thumper against the run but nobody's running on us yet and Woody is a better LB than Irving.

It also looks like Trevathan is better as a Will than Irving is as a Mike, which means our 3 best LBs seem to be Von, Woodyard and Trevathan.

So should we ignore the bulk argument that middle linebackers can't be 225 pounds and use our slight-but-fast LB corps to continue to run down all the plays once Miller is back on the field?

Just curious.

~G
In a recent interview, Woodyard said he is playing at 233, this year. That still
is relatively light, compared to your classic MLB. However, I haven't seen him
go backwards in a meeting with a RB. Have you? I have been impressed with
the running defense of Woody and Trevathan and how they play on passing
downs.

Remember Zach Thomas? I'll bet most of us do. He was a 5'11", 230 lb.,
five-time All Pro. Obviously, he didn't let his weight bother him. I'm not saying
Woodyard is at Thomas' level . . . yet. But, as you mentioned, nobody's
running on him yet.

In short, when Von returns, the Broncos will possibly rank with the 49ers as
having the best linebackers in the league. And I'm not sure it's arguable
that the Broncos have the best backups in the league with Irving, Johnson,
Lenon, and Phillips.

So yes, I picture the starters there, in Miller, Woodyard, and Trevathan, as
a scary good one, IMO. And FAST!
.

claymore
09-16-2013, 01:11 PM
if we're thinking of the same thing, it was an anecdote collinsworth shared during the ravens game in week 1. if i recall correctly, mays was making the calls in the defensive huddle last year but when he got demoted they gave woodyard the "green dot" and haven't relinquished it because he organized the D in a such an effective manner.

That sounds about right.

Dapper Dan
09-16-2013, 01:19 PM
Remember when Von gets back, the defense will go to more over formations, with Von up on the line. It puts the other two linebackers in more of a nickel situation, so I'm not sure "middle" linebacker really is a necessary term to use with this defense.

We know Woodyard is one of those two linebackers. I think the question is who is the other? Right now, Trevathan is the leader in the clubhouse, IMO.

I feel like this is the answer. JDR runs all kinds of formations. DL and LB line up everywhere. If we even have a base formation, it's the one you described. The main argument for a MLB usually deals with communication and leadership. Woodyard is the best LB when it comes to either of those. He's had the green dot for a while. I would argue that Woodyard has been our "MLB" for a while, no matter where he lines. up. As far as tackling the ballcarrier in the middle. Woodyard is an excellent tackler. As long as teams are in "catch up mode", we won't have to worry at all about the opponents run game. Our run defense hasn't truly been tested yet, imo.

I agree that Trevathan is the lead for the 3rd LB slot. He's been playing surprisingly well since being drafted.

SoCalImport
09-16-2013, 01:25 PM
Von who?

(in case no one has posted that yet)

interesting question. our d is basically assembled as a 4 - 3, I'd like to see Woody stay at the Mike and put Von at DE, move ayers to the Sam and Nacho to free safety. I'll have to think on the rest. I like our speedy linebackers as they are.

we know what Von can do from the SLB position and he does put a hand down in nickle/dime at times. That versatility is a blessing.

What gives the impression that Ayers (really?) could even outplay Irving for the SLB spot?

And as to Woodyard staying at MLB I think it's a no brainer at this point. It was alway more (IMHO) about who would play WLB if not Wood. With Trevian we now have that covered.

Dapper Dan
09-16-2013, 01:35 PM
Ayers needs to stay where he is.

broncofaninfla
09-16-2013, 01:36 PM
If Denver truly wants to field their best players I think it'll be Miller, Woodyard and Trevathan when/If Von makes it back. I love the upside with Trevathan and Woodyard has been solid at the MLB spot. Very happy with our linebacker play thus far.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-16-2013, 01:41 PM
if we're thinking of the same thing, it was an anecdote collinsworth shared during the ravens game in week 1. if i recall correctly, mays was making the calls in the defensive huddle last year but when he got demoted they gave woodyard the "green dot" and haven't relinquished it because he organized the D in a such an effective manner.

I believe that is correct. Woody was making the calls from his weakside linebacker spot the last half of last season. He's been the leader of that defense for almost a year now.

Woody is great for this team.

gregbroncs
09-16-2013, 02:12 PM
Interestingly enough, this team would probably miss Woodyard more than they miss Miller. While Miller is definitely the more talented player I think the leadership and abilities of Woodyard combined may make him harder to replace.

BroncoNut
09-16-2013, 02:13 PM
we know what Von can do from the SLB position and he does put a hand down in nickle/dime at times. That versatility is a blessing.

What gives the impression that Ayers (really?) could even outplay Irving for the SLB spot?

And as to Woodyard staying at MLB I think it's a no brainer at this point. It was alway more (IMHO) about who would play WLB if not Wood. With Trevian we now have that covered.

well, to answer the question part of your post, I guess in all honesty I have no to little idea. I thought it sounded good though. thanks for your time

topscribe
09-16-2013, 02:19 PM
Interestingly enough, this team would probably miss Woodyard more than they miss Miller. While Miller is definitely the more talented player I think the leadership and abilities of Woodyard combined may make him harder to replace.
That's an interesting concept, and you may be right. So much of it is
communication and leadership, and Woody has both, as well as being a
terrific player.

Without Von, the Broncos still have a good defense (which could become
great with Von in the lineup). But if Woody goes down, I believe it will
weaken the defense considerably. A scary thought, for sure . . .
.

HORSEPOWER 56
09-16-2013, 03:12 PM
Woodyard is the F'n man. He can pretty much play any LB position effectively. Trevathan has done well at Will. I'm fine with Woody staying at Mike.

BroncoNut
09-16-2013, 03:17 PM
Von and Woody will certainly be on the field. It boils down to who the coaching staff thinks will contribute the most as the 3rd LB.

I actually saluted this post then I realized it belonged to the dik that was attacking me earlier so I removed the salute. bet that sticks out all ugly like in your UserCP. I hope so

slim
09-16-2013, 03:20 PM
I originally wanted Irving at MLB when Von comes back. #59 is making me rethink it, but I'm not sure I am sold on it yet.

Von, Irving and Woody

Von, Woody and #59...it's a tough call for me.

Joel
09-16-2013, 04:26 PM
I originally wanted Irving at MLB when Von comes back. #59 is making me rethink it, but I'm not sure I am sold on it yet.

Von, Irving and Woody

Von, Woody and #59...it's a tough call for me.
I dislike putting the question in those terms, since Will=/=Mike, but if that IS the question it's basically asking if Irving's better than Trevathan. The coaches seem to have made their call, and it's hard to dispute.

It comes back to whether Woodyard plays Will vs. Mike having nada to do with whether Miller plays Sam. Irvings Mike play, Stewart Bradleys injury and/or Trevathans Will play might affect that, but unless/until Woodyard goes to Sam THAT position is irrelevant to where he starts. Just MHO, but I don't think we replaced Miller with our second best LB; we replaced him with the worst coverage LB of our remaining starters.

TXBRONC
09-16-2013, 04:37 PM
Yes for the reasons you said G. We have defensive line big enough to keep the trash off of him. It also allow Denver to keep it's three best linebacker on the field. I know it's been a couple games but I think Trevathan is showing he could start for a lot teams in the League and do quite well.

Ziggy
09-16-2013, 04:59 PM
Vickerson and Knighton are dominating offensive lineman. The reason these linebackers look good is because they are being kept clean by the big guys. We can get away with smaller linebackers with the way this D line is playing. It also makes the D better in coverage over the middle. By the time the season is done, Trevathan may be a pro bowl caliber linebacker. The kid is a playmaker. He already 14 tackles, a sack, a TFL, a QB hit, 2 passes defended and an interception in 2 games. I can see why the coaches wanted to get him on the field. I don't see them wanting to take him off of it any time soon.

Skinny
09-16-2013, 06:53 PM
Yes. Didn't even have to think about it twice like slacker slim did.

slim
09-16-2013, 07:15 PM
Yes. Didn't even have to think about it twice like slacker slim did.

Hey, I like Irving. So sue me....

dogfish
09-16-2013, 07:29 PM
Vickerson and Knighton are dominating offensive lineman. The reason these linebackers look good is because they are being kept clean by the big guys. We can get away with smaller linebackers with the way this D line is playing. It also makes the D better in coverage over the middle. By the time the season is done, Trevathan may be a pro bowl caliber linebacker. The kid is a playmaker. He already 14 tackles, a sack, a TFL, a QB hit, 2 passes defended and an interception in 2 games. I can see why the coaches wanted to get him on the field. I don't see them wanting to take him off of it any time soon.

and a touchdown. . . no, wait. . .




Yes. Didn't even have to think about it twice like slacker slim did.

slim has some weird fixation on irving. . .

Dreadnought
09-16-2013, 07:55 PM
Yes. Didn't even have to think about it twice like slacker slim did.

Slim is a Great Guy. I love him in a non-Tom Brady kind of brotherly way. He is a bit slow, however.

TXBRONC
09-16-2013, 07:57 PM
Hey, I like Irving. So sue me....

You have money?

Dapper Dan
09-16-2013, 08:07 PM
In a passing league with big Tight Ends, it's hard to beat linebackers like Trevathan and Woodyard. I'm not so sure the traditional MLB is as important is it used to be.

MOtorboat
09-16-2013, 08:25 PM
In a passing league with big Tight Ends, it's hard to beat linebackers like Trevathan and Woodyard. I'm not so sure the traditional MLB is as important is it used to be.

Oh it's definitely not..."middle" linebacker basically doesn't exist anymore.

Joel
09-16-2013, 08:55 PM
I'm just gonna pretend I'm already asleep and didn't see the last part of this....:deadhorse:

Broncolingus
09-16-2013, 09:28 PM
Concur with most...

...Woodyard and Von will be out there all the time, with the 'other' LB TBD and prob based on the defensive call/requirement.

Woodyard will definitely remain the defensive play caller out there...

slim
09-17-2013, 11:36 AM
I see, everyone pick on the fat kid....you guys are so immature.

I guess I'm the only one that appreciates a nice bubble :noidea:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
09-17-2013, 11:59 AM
I still think Trevathan will be a 3 down backer when Von returns. When we're in nickel situations Von will essentially become one of the four down linemen and we'll have Danny T and Woody in coverage.