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Cugel
08-26-2013, 12:59 PM
I saw this and thought it would be a good read for you all. Broncos battle for final roster spots
By Shawn Drotar
August 26, 2013 9:26 am MDT (http://cover32.com/broncos/2013/08/26/broncos-battle-for-final-roster-spots/)


the Denver Broncos enter the final week of preseason in good spirits. Yes, there were critical turnovers by the Broncos and the kick coverage was underwhelming – and both issues absolutely need to be corrected – but the passing offense was explosive and the defensive line finally showed that they can make an impact.

I don't know about that. Jeff Fisher showed nothing on Saturday, by design. He kept everything as vanilla as possible, especially on defense. I wouldn't take too much from this game.


Running Back – Rookie Montee Ball and much-maligned veteran Knowshon Moreno are in a battle for the starting job after Ronnie Hillman’s fumble problems have essentially removed him from consideration. Moreno, due to his superior pass-blocking, appears to have the upper hand, but the Broncos will keep all three backs. Jacob Hester seems likely to make the team as a fullback, but it’s not a sure thing. Lance Ball has been reliable, if not spectacular, in his Denver tenure, and the unfortunate injury to explosive rookie C.J. Anderson might have given Ball another season in a Broncos uniform.

Wide Receiver – Obviously, Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker and Eric Decker aren’t “on the bubble,” but Gerell Robinson certainly is. A tall, athletic receiver, Robinson had two offensive pass interference penalties against the Rams, and with the Broncos likely to keep four tight ends, Robinson’s spot on the team might be dependent on how he performs Thursday. His primary competition, Greg Orton, was waived Sunday night, but Robinson may have a tall task in unseating either Tavarres King or Andre Caldwell. King, a fifth-round draft pick, seems like a good bet for the final roster, and the up-and-down Caldwell might still be retained as a deep threat. Trindon Holliday will make the team, but given his poor preseason play at the position, the Broncos don’t intend to play him at wideout often.

Tackle – Behind starters Ryan Clady and Orlando Franklin, sixth-round pick Vinston Painter and five-year vet Chris Clark are battling, but neither has played all that well. Painter has upside at least, so Clark’s chances might be dwindling.

Guard – Zane Beadles and Louis Vasquez will start, and the Broncos would love to see if Chris Kuper could provide depth after a series of significant injuries. If he can’t, the door swings open for C.J. Davis, Philip Blake and converted defensive lineman Ben Garland. Plus, whoever stands out in Thursday’s game might very well make the final 53.

Center – Manny Ramirez and Ryan Lilja will both make the club; one as the starter here, and the other as a swing player between the center and guard positions. The Broncos are hoping it’s Lilja, but the recently unretired veteran isn’t completely up to speed with the team yet. J.D. Walton is expected to return from injury at some point this season, which is likely to make Steve Vallos expendable.

Defensive End – Derek Wolfe, who was fortunate to avoid serious injury last week against the Seahawks, will start when healthy. The other starter, Robert Ayers, might be in serious jeopardy as youngsters Malik Jackson and Jeremy Beal continue to impress. Jackson, in particular, was one of the Broncos’ most dynamic defensive players against the Rams while playing at both end and tackle. Versatile veteran Shaun Phillips is a necessary piece in Von Miller’s absence, and the Broncos love fifth-round pick Quanterus Smith as an edge rusher, even if he is still working his way into playing shape after a 2012 ACL tear. If the Broncos feels that Jackson is ready for prime-time, it wouldn’t be a shock to see the underachieving Ayers shown the door.

Linebacker – The Broncos are in flux here, given Von Miller’s six-game suspension and Stewart Bradley’s wrist injury, which required surgery. Wesley Woodyard and Danny Trevathan will start and be on the field for most plays, but Miller’s absence leaves room for Nate Irving on the strong-side, and Bradley’s absence gives Steven Johnson and undrafted rookie Lerentee McCray a chance to make the club. Johnson was terrific against the Rams, and the Broncos love McCray’s energy and intensity.

Safety – Rahim Moore and Duke Ihenacho are entrenched as the starters; a meteoric rise for Ihenacho and a testament to Moore’s newfound maturity. David Bruton’s a special-teams ace; he’ll make the team. The Broncos would love to see Quinton Carter get healthy, and one suspects the team will give their one-time starter a chance to do exactly that. It appears as if the last spot’s down to last year’s starter at strong safety, Mike Adams, and 12-year vet Quentin Jammer, who looked spry enough against the Rams. The Broncos would like to retain one for a veteran presence on the otherwise-young unit; which one might be decided on the field Thursday.
Quentin Jammer is probably going to be released, but everybody should be happy about the emergence of Duke Ihenacho as a real impact player. He's this year's Danny Trevathan and Wesley Woodyard. And the team desperately NEEDS impact players -- especially in the secondary. As for LBs I've liked Steven Johnson for some time and hope he makes the team. They could use another LB who makes plays.

Ihenacho's play and that of R-Cromartie are the bright spots of 2013 of course.


The Broncos waived 11 players on Sunday, and they’ll need to waive two more to get down to an NFL-mandated 75 by Tuesday. After the Cardinals game, 22 more players will receive the dreaded call to the coach’s office.

MOtorboat
08-26-2013, 01:04 PM
Forgive me if I've missed it, but has anyone with the Broncos said Hillman has been removed from the starting running back position?

CoachChaz
08-26-2013, 01:11 PM
Forgive me if I've missed it, but has anyone with the Broncos said Hillman has been removed from the starting running back position?

They need to

BroncoWave
08-26-2013, 01:19 PM
Forgive me if I've missed it, but has anyone with the Broncos said Hillman has been removed from the starting running back position?

It seems like he's more projecting what he thinks will happen than reporting what the Broncos are saying.

Cugel
08-26-2013, 01:37 PM
It seems like he's more projecting what he thinks will happen than reporting what the Broncos are saying.

That's correct. Still, it's an interesting read. This is what people are saying. You can disagree with it if you like, but much of it is probably correct.

Let's take his position picks one by one:

WR: Seems pretty obvious that Gerell Robinson isn't making this roster. Travares King and Andre Caldwell probably are, but Trindon Holliday could be kept for Special Teams play.

RB: 4 RBs and FB Jacob Hester seems pretty reasonable too. That leaves room for the very under-whelming Lance Ball.

TE: Add Virgil Green to Dreesen, Tamme & J. T. if the Broncos keep 4, which seems likely. They want to add depth at TE.

T: When two guys both suck equally, I have no idea what they do. Maybe check the waiver wire after the final cuts for a veteran to pick up.

G: If the Broncos weren't so ridiculously wedded to holding onto all their draft picks, I'd say Phillip Blake should pack his bags now. Since they do, who knows? Have any of you been impressed with Ben Garland's progress? Me either.

DE: Despite the invisible play of Robert Ayers I can't see them cutting him. Could happen I suppose because he was the previous regime's draft pick, not Elway's. What people forget is that the Broncos wanted to start Malik Jackson and Jeremy Beal last year before they got injured. So, their elevation is no surprise. Last year was supposed to be Ayers' chance to impress and win favor with the coaches.

He was mediocre. Not terrible. Made a few plays, but nothing consistent. And I get the feeling they're looking for more consistency. Ayers is getting a long look this pre-season. I'd say he's on the bubble but will escape, but I've been wrong before.

LB: I like Steven Johnson about as much as I don't like Nate Irving. If Von Miller weren't getting suspended. . . . .

C: It's mere speculation at this point that the player the Broncos would cut when/if J.D. Walton comes back this season would be Vallos. We'll have to see at that point who's underperforming.

Ziggy
08-26-2013, 01:37 PM
The rise of Malik Jackson has been one of the untold stories of camp. He has a shot to start on week 1 at RDE. Phillips might be best used as a pass rush specialist to keep him fresh, and Ayers has no pass rush ability at all. Malik also provides pass rush ability at the DT position in the nickel packages.

Cugel
08-26-2013, 01:41 PM
The rise of Malik Jackson has been one of the untold stories of camp. He has a shot to start on week 1 at RDE. Phillips might be best used as a pass rush specialist to keep him fresh, and Ayers has no pass rush ability at all. Malik also provides pass rush ability at the DT position in the nickel packages.

Were you really surprised by this? Remember they wanted to start him last year too, but he and Beal were both injured before the start of the season, which gave their chances to Derek Wolfe who made the most of them.

I seriously doubt however, whether both of them put together will make anybody forget Dumervil's pass-rush ability.

TXBRONC
08-26-2013, 04:52 PM
That's correct. Still, it's an interesting read. This is what people are saying. You can disagree with it if you like, but much of it is probably correct.

Let's take his position picks one by one:

WR: Seems pretty obvious that Gerell Robinson isn't making this roster. Travares King and Andre Caldwell probably are, but Trindon Holliday could be kept for Special Teams play.

RB: 4 RBs and FB Jacob Hester seems pretty reasonable too. That leaves room for the very under-whelming Lance Ball.

TE: Add Virgil Green to Dreesen, Tamme & J. T. if the Broncos keep 4, which seems likely. They want to add depth at TE.

T: When two guys both suck equally, I have no idea what they do. Maybe check the waiver wire after the final cuts for a veteran to pick up.

G: If the Broncos weren't so ridiculously wedded to holding onto all their draft picks, I'd say Phillip Blake should pack his bags now. Since they do, who knows? Have any of you been impressed with Ben Garland's progress? Me either.

DE: Despite the invisible play of Robert Ayers I can't see them cutting him. Could happen I suppose because he was the previous regime's draft pick, not Elway's. What people forget is that the Broncos wanted to start Malik Jackson and Jeremy Beal last year before they got injured. So, their elevation is no surprise. Last year was supposed to be Ayers' chance to impress and win favor with the coaches.

He was mediocre. Not terrible. Made a few plays, but nothing consistent. And I get the feeling they're looking for more consistency. Ayers is getting a long look this pre-season. I'd say he's on the bubble but will escape, but I've been wrong before.

LB: I like Steven Johnson about as much as I don't like Nate Irving. If Von Miller weren't getting suspended. . . . .

C: It's mere speculation at this point that the player the Broncos would cut when/if J.D. Walton comes back this season would be Vallos. We'll have to see at that point who's underperforming.

I don't recall Fox wanting Beal and Jackson to start.

Northman
08-26-2013, 04:59 PM
DE: Despite the invisible play of Robert Ayers I can't see them cutting him. Could happen I suppose because he was the previous regime's draft pick, not Elway's. What people forget is that the Broncos wanted to start Malik Jackson and Jeremy Beal last year before they got injured. So, their elevation is no surprise. Last year was supposed to be Ayers' chance to impress and win favor with the coaches.

He was mediocre. Not terrible. Made a few plays, but nothing consistent. And I get the feeling they're looking for more consistency. Ayers is getting a long look this pre-season. I'd say he's on the bubble but will escape, but I've been wrong before.



Ayers has been very underwhelming for me. I wouldnt mind seeing someone else get a shot at making a difference. If anything, make Ayers a backup for depth purposes but he isnt a playmaker in anyway.

dogfish
08-26-2013, 07:08 PM
Forgive me if I've missed it, but has anyone with the Broncos said Hillman has been removed from the starting running back position?

just a matter of time, IMO. . .

slim
08-26-2013, 07:11 PM
Ball was running with the first team at practice today.

Ziggy
08-26-2013, 07:32 PM
Ball was running with the first team at practice today.

With Manning, Decker, DT, and Welker, the only thing that's going to stop this offense is turnovers. Hillman is too much of a liability in that department. Montee Ball was the poster boy for ball security in college. He had 2 career fumbles in 983 touches. I'd imagine that Knowshon will be the primary 3rd down back due to his blocking prowess... at least until Ball improves in that area. Hillman may have gone from being the starting running back to a guy that rarely gets on the field.

Cugel
08-27-2013, 08:41 AM
I don't recall Fox wanting Beal and Jackson to start.

Well, last year Wolfe was a rookie and Fox doesn't start rookies. Except that both Beal and Jackson went down with season ending injuries in the preseason, so people forget that they were on top of the depth chart and would in all probability have started over Wolfe.

This year, with the loss of Dumervil there's room on the right side for someone to step up. And that someone is clearly NOT going to be Robert Ayers.

But, just because Ayers is invisible doesn't mean Jackson is great. He should be mediocre, but can you imagine Malik Jackson and Beal put together getting 10-12 sacks? They might get 6-8, but more likely fewer.

So, they're going to miss Dumervil's production.

TXBRONC
08-27-2013, 10:00 AM
Well, last year Wolfe was a rookie and Fox doesn't start rookies. Except that both Beal and Jackson went down with season ending injuries in the preseason, so people forget that they were on top of the depth chart and would in all probability have started over Wolfe.

This year, with the loss of Dumervil there's room on the right side for someone to step up. And that someone is clearly NOT going to be Robert Ayers.

But, just because Ayers is invisible doesn't mean Jackson is great. He should be mediocre, but can you imagine Malik Jackson and Beal put together getting 10-12 sacks? They might get 6-8, but more likely fewer.

So, they're going to miss Dumervil's production.

Cugel, Jackson was rookie last year and he played in 14 games. He made no starts but did play situationally. Beal was on IR. From what I remember Wolfe was going be in the defensive tackle rotation and he was probably going start anyway. Then Ayers stumbled so Wolfe was moved out to defensive end. It was either Fox or Elway who said they had designs on moving Wolfe around along the defensive line. I don't what will get out Jackson but he play RDE and get pressure off that edge. If he and Phillps can get six to eights a piece will be ok.

I haven't been particularly thrilled with how Ayers has played at RDE either but I've been concern from the very beginning.

Fox has this reputation not starting rookies but might be bit overblown. Franklin, Moore, Wolfe and obviously Miller have all been starters since their rookies seasons.

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 10:25 AM
I still really like the Quanterus Smith pick. I don't know that we will gain much benefit from it THIS year...but maybe.. just maybe... by the end of the season!

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 10:27 AM
As far as Hillman goes.... he may not get the starts, but his speed is explosive, ESPECIALLY compared to the rest of the RBs on this roster. He may not see the field much the first couple of games, but don't think he's going to be cut or released because of the pre-season fumbles. Hell, we still have Moreno on the roster and he's a fumbling headache as well. Fans have a lot less patience than the coaches do. I believe they see more BENEFIT to Hillman's speed from what they have seen all pre-season and camps than purely to right him off.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-27-2013, 10:29 AM
As far as Hillman goes.... he may not get the starts, but his speed is explosive, ESPECIALLY compared to the rest of the RBs on this roster. He may not see the field much the first couple of games, but don't think he's going to be cut or released because of the pre-season fumbles. Hell, we still have Moreno on the roster and he's a fumbling headache as well. Fans have a lot less patience than the coaches do. I believe they see more BENEFIT to Hillman's speed from what they have seen all pre-season and camps than purely to right him off.

We are a couple of years removed from Moreno's fumbling problems. He's pretty good about putting two hands on the ball in traffic now. I like the fact that it seems to be habit for Ball as well.

TXBRONC
08-27-2013, 10:45 AM
I still really like the Quanterus Smith pick. I don't know that we will gain much benefit from it THIS year...but maybe.. just maybe... by the end of the season!

Me too but I haven't seen him the past couple of weeks.

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 10:47 AM
Me too but I haven't seen him the past couple of weeks.

Has he played? Figured they were being pretty easy with that knee.

TXBRONC
08-27-2013, 11:18 AM
Has he played? Figured they were being pretty easy with that knee.

I remember seeing him in the first preseason game but I can't remember seeing him in the last two games.

dogfish
08-27-2013, 11:47 AM
We are a couple of years removed from Moreno's fumbling problems. He's pretty good about putting two hands on the ball in traffic now. I like the fact that it seems to be habit for Ball as well.

moreno only fumbled once in like 130 carries last year. . . hillman's fumbled three times in how many carries this pre-season?


i can see Q smith possibly being the guy that ends up on IR with the phantom injury. . .

Traveler
08-27-2013, 12:41 PM
i can see Q smith possibly being the guy that ends up on IR with the phantom injury. . .

Nah, Beal is probably the odd man out. Smith's upside is far greater than JB's. Maybe then Smith can reclaim his college number. Just sayin'.

Cugel
08-29-2013, 09:04 AM
Cugel, Jackson was rookie last year and he played in 14 games. He made no starts but did play situationally. Beal was on IR. From what I remember Wolfe was going be in the defensive tackle rotation and he was probably going start anyway. Then Ayers stumbled so Wolfe was moved out to defensive end. It was either Fox or Elway who said they had designs on moving Wolfe around along the defensive line. I don't what will get out Jackson but he play RDE and get pressure off that edge. If he and Phillps can get six to eights a piece will be ok.

I haven't been particularly thrilled with how Ayers has played at RDE either but I've been concern from the very beginning.

Fox has this reputation not starting rookies but might be bit overblown. Franklin, Moore, Wolfe and obviously Miller have all been starters since their rookies seasons.

Both Beal and Jackson were at some point during the preseason put in as #1 on the depth chart ahead of Wolfe and Ayers before they got injured and went onto IR. Don't ask me why. Apparently they performed well during training camp and going into the preseason.

I always thought that Ayers would have been the natural choice to slide over and take the LDE position and most fans thought so too before the season, but Fox just said "we like Ayers on the right side" (i.e. as a little used backup to Dumervil).

With Doom gone, this should be Ayers chance. But, do you see any signs of it? No. They're talking about starting Jeremy Beal. And Ayers is once again -- a backup.

That tells me that they just don't think much of Robert Ayers. He's in the dog-house and never got out for some reason.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of Ayers. But, lots of knowledgeable observers including Alfred Williams have liked Ayers' play during the preseason the last 2 years. Then he just disappears down the depth chart.

Every year there's a veteran who is a surprising last minute cut. This year the obvious candidate is Quentin Jammer. But, I suppose it could be Robert Ayers.

TXBRONC
08-29-2013, 10:03 AM
Both Beal and Jackson were at some point during the preseason put in as #1 on the depth chart ahead of Wolfe and Ayers before they got injured and went onto IR. Don't ask me why. Apparently they performed well during training camp and going into the preseason.

I always thought that Ayers would have been the natural choice to slide over and take the LDE position and most fans thought so too before the season, but Fox just said "we like Ayers on the right side" (i.e. as a little used backup to Dumervil).

With Doom gone, this should be Ayers chance. But, do you see any signs of it? No. They're talking about starting Jeremy Beal. And Ayers is once again -- a backup.

That tells me that they just don't think much of Robert Ayers. He's in the dog-house and never got out for some reason.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of Ayers. But, lots of knowledgeable observers including Alfred Williams have liked Ayers' play during the preseason the last 2 years. Then he just disappears down the depth chart.

Every year there's a veteran who is a surprising last minute cut. This year the obvious candidate is Quentin Jammer. But, I suppose it could be Robert Ayers.


Yes this is/was Ayers big chance he's started at least the first two preseason games maybe even last week I would have to go back and look. Nevertheless I haven't been all that impressed with how he's played to this point. It was reported by the Denver media following Dumervil debacle Ayers was going to get to the first crack being the starting RDE. I really don't consider Alfred Williams all that knowledgeable.

I would be a little surprised if Ayers was cut. He did play ok as a role player in certain packeages last season. Jackson looks like he's ready make a bigger impact. He seem to be playing faster than he did last year. I'm all for Beal, Jackson or Ayers stepping it up especially since Miller will be gone for the first six weeks og the season but I have reservations that Ayers is going to be that guy.