PDA

View Full Version : Broncos let suspended Von Miller play 1st half vs. Rams



Denver Native (Carol)
08-25-2013, 12:43 PM
DENVER – Consider the Denver Broncos starting defense sufficiently rehearsed for Oct. 20.

You know, Week 7, at Indianapolis. When Von Miller's six-game suspension is over.

If the third preseason game is truly the best practice for the regular season, the Broncos treated Saturday's game against the St. Louis Rams as if they wouldn't have to play without their star linebacker, whose six-game suspension for violating the NFL's substance abuse policy became official earlier this week.

Miller's suspension officially begins on Aug. 31, when teams set their 53-man rosters. Surely John Fox and his staff are planning for what they'll do five days later, when the Broncos open the regular season against the Baltimore Ravens without Miller.

rest - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2013/08/24/denver-broncos-von-miller-plays-first-half-st-louis-rams/2696359/

BroncoWave
08-25-2013, 12:47 PM
Can't say I agree with this move. I get that Fox doesn't want to punish Miller any more than the league already did, but I feel like this would have been a good chance to let the week 1 starting defense play together. Granted this probably has little impact in the grand scheme of things, but I still would have liked to have seen someone other than Von start.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-25-2013, 12:56 PM
We're gonna miss him big time. Without him on the field, our pass rush is anemic. We still get almost zero push up the middle. We should be okay vs the run, but we can't get pressure without blitzing and we still suck at covering TEs.

We haven't gotten any turnovers in the last 2 games either, even though we've given up a bunch. Right now, we don't look anything like the team that won 11 straight games last year. I hope it's just preseason rust.

Magnificent Seven
08-25-2013, 01:22 PM
I believe Von Miller will train harder during his suspension. We will see a better, bigger, and badder monster in October. Time will go fast.

Wesley Woodyard is our guy for now. Loud Broncos Fans will help our Defense to stop them.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-25-2013, 01:40 PM
Obviously Von has only himself to blame for the suspension. I like the fact that Von played with the starters. I would imagine this was just not a Fox decision, but also Elway, and DelRio were part of this decision. I think they wanted to let him know that he is still regarded as a member of the team, and hopefully that helps Von mentally during the suspension, and moreso for the rest of his career, to want to stay clean to show his appreciation for this. I think it was a "long term" decision.

Broncolingus
08-25-2013, 01:52 PM
Obviously Von has only himself to blame for the suspension.

True that, sister!

...I also agree with Elway that the 'leaks' - regardless of how true they ended up being - contributed to exacerbating the whole thing.

Finally, I hope Von got an earful from (all) his teammates about letting them & the team down...especially given Doom's (ahem) departure.

...and how this point forward, there are no more second (third, fifth, tenth, etc.) chances...

...dude needs to be squeaky friggin clean for the rest of his career.

Army Bronco
08-25-2013, 02:03 PM
Obviously Von has only himself to blame for the suspension.

True that, sister!

...I also agree with Elway that the 'leaks' - regardless of how true they ended up being - contributed to exacerbating the whole thing.

Finally, I hope Von got an earful from (all) his teammates about letting them & the team down...especially given Doom's (ahem) departure.

...and how this point forward, there are no more second (third, fifth, tenth, etc.) chances...

...dude needs to be squeaky friggin clean for the rest of his career.Just don't get why its so hard for some of these Players to just do the right thing. He is obviously a good guy, dude went on a USO tour and all.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-25-2013, 02:09 PM
Just don't get why its so hard for some of these Players to just do the right thing. He is obviously a good guy, dude went on a USO tour and all.

from another article I posted this morning - Klis is talking about Brandon Marshall and Von


Miller's troubled situation is different in that aside from blowing off some traffic tickets and a court date, his transgressions were not criminal in nature.

Like Marshall, though, Miller has exhibited recidivist tendencies. In 2008, Sherman suspended Miller because he repeatedly showed up late for appointments, blew off classes and took a poor attitude to practice. In 2013, Miller's suspension was increased from four to six games because the league discovered he had numerous other nonpositive sample incidents. "Nonpositive" incidents generally mean the player was either repeatedly late for drug tests, or frequently failed to notify the testers when he was out of town.

Miller is a good guy who was taught right from wrong by his mother and father. But Mike Sherman hit on something during that 2010 meeting in his office.

full article - http://www.denverpost.com/klis/ci_23935916/miller-hasnt-tackled-maturity

TXBRONC
08-25-2013, 02:19 PM
There is no surprise here. It was already mentioned Fox indicated that Von was going play but some people had to argue about it.

Simple Jaded
08-25-2013, 02:42 PM
I see it as the Broncos showing Miller some support in contrast to how they handled Dj Williams suspension last year. I don't have any problem with either.

Dzone
08-25-2013, 03:02 PM
Well, we won the game and Fox wanted that. The Rams were pretty good. Maybe they would have beaten us without Von playing...The team needs to feel that winning feeling and be confident in game 1. Winning helped.

spikerman
08-25-2013, 03:06 PM
I don't think playing him last night accomplished anything positive while not playing him was a missed opportunity.

dogfish
08-25-2013, 04:48 PM
starters start. . .

shocking, i know. . . :lol:


nothing to see here. . .

TXBRONC
08-25-2013, 04:53 PM
Well, we won the game and Fox wanted that. The Rams were pretty good. Maybe they would have beaten us without Von playing...The team needs to feel that winning feeling and be confident in game 1. Winning helped.

We didn't take the lead until the back ups were in.

spikerman
08-25-2013, 04:54 PM
starters start. . .

shocking, i know. . . :lol:


nothing to see here. . .

Except that for the first six games of the season Von Miller is not a starter; he's not even a player. It just would have been nice to see how the replacement lineup did against another team's starters before the bullets started flying for real. That way they could make adjustments if they need to. Now, because they played Miller, which served no purpose, they'll have to wait until it counts to see if their adjustments are effective.

BroncoWave
08-25-2013, 04:59 PM
Except that for the first six games of the season Von Miller is not a starter; he's not even a player. It just would have been nice to see how the replacement lineup did against another team's starters before the bullets started flying for real. That way they could make adjustments if they need to. Now, because they played Miller, which served no purpose, they'll have to wait until it counts to see if their adjustments are effective.

Exactly, it will be WAY easier to just reinsert Miller when he comes back than it will be to replace him. Given that, why not give the team reps to help ease along the transition without him?

Jsteve01
08-25-2013, 05:09 PM
And you've got irving and Wood playing out of position. it would be nice to let them jell a little would it not?

TXBRONC
08-25-2013, 05:10 PM
Except that for the first six games of the season Von Miller is not a starter; he's not even a player. It just would have been nice to see how the replacement lineup did against another team's starters before the bullets started flying for real. That way they could make adjustments if they need to. Now, because they played Miller, which served no purpose, they'll have to wait until it counts to see if their adjustments are effective.

Well bet there more to it than just trying be supportive of Miller.

spikerman
08-25-2013, 05:15 PM
Well bet there more to it than just trying be supportive of Miller.

I hope so because, on the surface, it seems like a pretty foolish decision.

TXBRONC
08-25-2013, 05:29 PM
I hope so because, on the surface, it seems like a pretty foolish decision.

I don't but I do understand that a lot of people see it as foolish.

Dzone
08-25-2013, 05:52 PM
From the looks of things, it was more a sentimental gesture to show love to Von Miller than it was a strategical decision. If that is so then it was foolish.

BroncoWave
08-25-2013, 06:35 PM
From the looks of things, it was more a sentimental gesture to show love to Von Miller than it was a strategical decision. If that is so then it was foolish.

See I think that would actually be a great explanation for it. Assuming he can get his head straight, we would like him to re-sign here. A move like that could be a nice gesture that he will remember come contract time.

While we always think players would just take the most money, sometimes they will take less due to a grudge. See: Dumervil, Elvis.

MOtorboat
08-25-2013, 06:36 PM
I think people are overreacting. Practice reps are more important than a preseason game, even if it is the third game.

Chef Zambini
08-26-2013, 12:50 AM
I believe Von Miller will train harder during his suspension. We will see a better, bigger, and badder monster in October. Time will go fast.

Wesley Woodyard is our guy for now. Loud Broncos Fans will help our Defense to stop them.he will not be allowed to be near the team during the suspension.
If he doesnt have a baby-sitter he will find more trouble.
being a coddled athlete is exactly why he is the way he is... irresponsable!
He pissed away his right to play with the team, litewrally and figurativly. it would have been better for the team to learn to play without him !
He is already living the lie that he did not do anything wrong. the broncos are absolutly handling this the wrong way !
treating him like a victim instead of an offender !

wake the F up broncos before you lose von forever.

BroncoJoe
08-26-2013, 06:15 AM
he will not be allowed to be near the team during the suspension.
If he doesnt have a baby-sitter he will find more trouble.
being a coddled athlete is exactly why he is the way he is... irresponsable!
He pissed away his right to play with the team, litewrally and figurativly. it would have been better for the team to learn to play without him !
He is already living the lie that he did not do anything wrong. the broncos are absolutly handling this the wrong way !
treating him like a victim instead of an offender !

wake the F up broncos before you lose von forever.

Not true:


His suspension will begin Aug. 31, though Fox said Miller would be allowed to attend meetings and work out under the supervision of Broncos strength coaches for the duration of his suspension.

He can't practice or be on the sidelines during games, but he can and will be at Dove Valley every day.

TimHippo
08-26-2013, 07:10 AM
From the looks of things, it was more a sentimental gesture to show love to Von Miller than it was a strategical decision. If that is so then it was foolish.

It's foolish because it once again validates Von's behavior and coddles him. This coddling was the main problem at Texas A & M which made him believe he could get away with anything.

TXBRONC
08-26-2013, 08:39 AM
As I said earlier I understand your stances against it but I don't see it all that big of deal. The players that will have to fill the void in his abscences got on the field so it's not like didn't play at all. I can't where I picked this up from but I remember reading that Von was on the scout team this past week.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-26-2013, 09:40 AM
It's foolish because it once again validates Von's behavior and coddles him. This coddling was the main problem at Texas A & M which made him believe he could get away with anything.

He wasn't coddled at Texas A & M

from article I posted yesterday, which was a new thread talking about Brandon Marshall and Von:


Like Marshall, though, Miller has exhibited recidivist tendencies. In 2008, Sherman suspended Miller because he repeatedly showed up late for appointments, blew off classes and took a poor attitude to practice.

full article - http://www.denverpost.com/klis/ci_23935916/miller-hasnt-tackled-maturity

Dzone
08-26-2013, 09:51 AM
This topic will be a very big deal if we get shredded by Ray Rice next Thursday night and we lose to Baltimore. People would be pissed...I aint saying its going to happen, but you never know and Ray Rice is a bad ass

Nomad
08-26-2013, 10:00 AM
I thought preseason games didn't matter.

MOtorboat
08-26-2013, 10:01 AM
This topic will be a very big deal if we get shredded by Ray Rice next Thursday night and we lose to Baltimore. People would be pissed...I aint saying its going to happen, but you never know and Ray Rice is a bad ass

I can guarantee that if Rice has a big night that it has absolutely nothing to do with Von Miller playing a preseason game.

There's not even correlation there, much less causation. You couldn't even prove Miller's absence is why one of the best running backs in the game has a good game.

Dzone
08-26-2013, 10:04 AM
I can guarantee that if Rice has a big night that it has absolutely nothing to do with Von Miller playing a preseason game.

There's not even correlation there, much less causation. You couldn't even prove Miller's absence is why one of the best running backs in the game has a good game.
Oh geez. Whatever

Nomad
08-26-2013, 10:04 AM
I can guarantee that if Rice has a big night that it has absolutely nothing to do with Von Miller playing a preseason game.

There's not even correlation there, much less causation. You couldn't even prove Miller's absence is why one of the best running backs in the game has a good game.

he did a damn good job against the BRONCOS last time they met.

MOtorboat
08-26-2013, 10:09 AM
he did a damn good job against the BRONCOS last time they met.

And Miller was playing.

MOtorboat
08-26-2013, 10:10 AM
Oh geez. Whatever

Spell out the logic in your thought process, then. Where is the correlation, and where is the causation?

dogfish
08-26-2013, 10:21 AM
i, for one, am outraged!



:lol:

Dapper Dan
08-26-2013, 10:40 AM
If we lose to the Ravens people will blame:

Von Miller's absence
Elvis Dumervil flip
MLB position
RB position
Rahim Moore




There's no need for justification.

Dzone
08-26-2013, 10:42 AM
If Rice gets 100 yards on us, its all because of weed

BroncoWave
08-26-2013, 10:43 AM
i, for one, am outraged!



:lol:

I don't think anyone in this thread is "outraged" by it. Just that some of us are of the opinion he shouldn't have started. I didn't lose any sleep over it though.

Dapper Dan
08-26-2013, 10:45 AM
If Rice gets 100 yards on us, its all because of weed

:lol:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-26-2013, 11:00 AM
I don't think anyone in this thread is "outraged" by it. Just that some of us are of the opinion he shouldn't have started. I didn't lose any sleep over it though.

You know, this might actually be a result of good game planning. It could be the coaches don't want the opposition to know what our starting defense is going to look like in week 1. Baltimore can guess what our lineup will look like, but they have no idea what we're going to do week 1, schematically.

It also tells Von we support him by letting him play.

slim
08-26-2013, 11:40 AM
Dumb

spikerman
08-26-2013, 04:33 PM
I thought preseason games didn't matter.

They don't count, but they do matter.

TXBRONC
08-26-2013, 04:39 PM
They don't count, but they do matter.

To degree they matter. I don't say this often but Mo is right instance it's the practices that matter the most.

TXBRONC
08-26-2013, 04:41 PM
i, for one, am outraged!



:lol:


I don't think anyone in this thread is "outraged" by it. Just that some of us are of the opinion he shouldn't have started. I didn't lose any sleep over it though.

It's hyperbole.

Magnificent Seven
08-26-2013, 04:43 PM
Ravens' secondary is sinking... I am sure Manning and his 3 Amigos will raise some hell on Thursday night on Sept. 5th!

Magnificent Seven
08-26-2013, 04:45 PM
3364

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-26-2013, 04:50 PM
3364

No that Julius is rising up can we call the group "cuatro personas"?

Magnificent Seven
08-26-2013, 05:20 PM
No that Julius is rising up can we call the group "cuatro personas"?

Julius Thomas has to prove us first.

dogfish
08-26-2013, 06:49 PM
No that Julius is rising up can we call the group "cuatro personas"?

cuatro vatos. . .

:defense:

Jsteve01
08-26-2013, 07:55 PM
cuatro vatos. . .

:defense:

I hope this offense is so good and so deep we have to call it siete eses

dogfish
08-26-2013, 07:56 PM
I hope this offense is so good and so deep we have to call it siete eses

once hombres. . .

:D

Army Bronco
08-26-2013, 08:07 PM
I hope this offense is so good and so deep we have to call it siete eses

once hombres. . .

:D These names are all offensive. You all should be ashamed. .....lol.

Jsteve01
08-26-2013, 08:09 PM
These names are all offensive. You all should be ashamed. .....lol.

the magnificent eleven?

MOtorboat
08-26-2013, 08:10 PM
They don't count, but they do matter.

I disagree. I, literally, think they don't mean anything.

dogfish
08-26-2013, 08:11 PM
These names are all offensive. You all should be ashamed. .....lol.

then i probably shouldn't admit that i've called the team "broncos locos" for years. . .

:fear:

BroncoWave
08-26-2013, 08:24 PM
I disagree. I, literally, think they don't mean anything.

If that were the case, why would coaches give starters a single snap? They obviously mean something or else they wouldn't risk their stars getting hurt.

Army Bronco
08-26-2013, 08:29 PM
These names are all offensive. You all should be ashamed. .....lol.

then i probably shouldn't admit that i've called the team "broncos locos" for years. . .

:fear:you forgot to put "los"

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 10:44 AM
If that were the case, why would coaches give starters a single snap? They obviously mean something or else they wouldn't risk their stars getting hurt.

Because they are there, and the fans are paying money to see them.

I don't think pre-season games mean anything at all. Sure it gives the starters a chance to "hit" other teams, but at the same time, they bring in other teams for inter-squad scrimmages already. I think we would see the same rosters 99% of the time without pre-season games, AND, we would see the game 1 have more starters actually make it without season ending injuries.

If the NFL REALLY cared about the player's safety, pre-season games would be eliminated. But, it's a chance for the owners to earn revenue that isn't shared with the rest of the NFL. So pre-season will stay.

powderaddict
08-27-2013, 10:53 AM
Preseason is televised practices.

That’s it.

They matter, in that practices matter. But I’m sure Irving is getting plenty of time in practice to run with the 1’s, where a few drives of practice on TV won’t really harm him in any way. These are just the practice/scrimmage games that we get to watch on TV, whereas the vast majority, we do not.

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 11:23 AM
Because they are there, and the fans are paying money to see them.

I don't think pre-season games mean anything at all. Sure it gives the starters a chance to "hit" other teams, but at the same time, they bring in other teams for inter-squad scrimmages already. I think we would see the same rosters 99% of the time without pre-season games, AND, we would see the game 1 have more starters actually make it without season ending injuries.

If the NFL REALLY cared about the player's safety, pre-season games would be eliminated. But, it's a chance for the owners to earn revenue that isn't shared with the rest of the NFL. So pre-season will stay.

Coaches would not risk the health of their star players if the games were meaningless. MAYBE they would trot them out for a drive per game to please the fans, but they wouldn't play them 2-3 quarters like they do in the 3rd preseason game. Obviously there is some use to it, or the starters wouldn't be out there that long.

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 11:24 AM
Coaches would not risk the health of their star players if the games were meaningless. MAYBE they would trot them out for a drive per game to please the fans, but they wouldn't play them 2-3 quarters like they do in the 3rd preseason game. Obviously there is some use to it, or the starters wouldn't be out there that long.

Ok, if you say so.

powderaddict
08-27-2013, 11:26 AM
Coaches would not risk the health of their star players if the games were meaningless. MAYBE they would trot them out for a drive per game to please the fans, but they wouldn't play them 2-3 quarters like they do in the 3rd preseason game. Obviously there is some use to it, or the starters wouldn't be out there that long.

They risk the health of their players EVERY SINGLE PRACTICE.

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 11:28 AM
And I feel like the games add some value that practices do not. Practices can't simulate being under the lights in front of 50,000 fans against a team you don't see every day.

If the only reason preseason games existed were money, the NFL could easily nix the preseason and jack up ticket and advertising costs over the 16 regular season games to cover what they lose in the preseason. Fans would still buy the tickets and advertisers would still come in droves.

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 11:28 AM
They risk the health of their players EVERY SINGLE PRACTICE.

Yes, but in practices you have a little more control over how much hitting goes on and you can put your QB in a red jersey. Can't do that in a preseason game.

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 11:29 AM
Ok, if you say so.

The kind of quality input I have come to expect from you over the years. :lol:

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 11:31 AM
And I feel like the games add some value that practices do not. Practices can't simulate being under the lights in front of 50,000 fans against a team you don't see every day.

If the only reason preseason games existed were money, the NFL could easily nix the preseason and jack up ticket and advertising costs over the 16 regular season games to cover what they lose in the preseason. Fans would still buy the tickets and advertisers would still come in droves.

:lol:

Nooo.... Because the preseason games the NFL owners don't have to share the revenue with the NFL like they do on their other 8 home games during the regular season (its also why stadiums are going to more private corporate boxes, because those aren't shared as well). Some stadiums are getting full price tickets for the pre-season games, and that is a LOT of money that doesn't hve to be split.

If you are REALLY foolish enough to believe that if "its ONLY money" they would cancel pre-season, then you are TRULY sticking your head in the sand and not paying attention to what has/is going on in the NFL and how its ALLLLLLL about money.

TXBRONC
08-27-2013, 11:35 AM
They risk the health of their players EVERY SINGLE PRACTICE.

They sure do.

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 11:36 AM
:lol:

Nooo.... Because the preseason games the NFL owners don't have to share the revenue with the NFL like they do on their other 8 home games during the regular season (its also why stadiums are going to more private corporate boxes, because those aren't shared as well). Some stadiums are getting full price tickets for the pre-season games, and that is a LOT of money that doesn't hve to be split.

If you are REALLY foolish enough to believe that if "its ONLY money" they would cancel pre-season, then you are TRULY sticking your head in the sand and not paying attention to what has/is going on in the NFL and how its ALLLLLLL about money.

Ok, so the NFL gets no benefit from preseason games based on this then if the teams get to keep all the money. And while I'm sure they enjoy that extra money, I bet they also enjoy their star players not getting hurt either. Let's say Manning would have torn his ACL in the last preseason game and the Broncos missed the playoffs for it. You think Bowlen would have been ok with that because of the extra money he got from two preseason games?

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 11:37 AM
I'll ask again. Why would the Broncos let their entire franchise (Manning) throw 35 passes in a preseason game if it added absolutely no value to their preparation for the season? You can't put the red jersey on a QB during a game. You can in practices.

powderaddict
08-27-2013, 11:44 AM
I'll ask again. Why would the Broncos let their entire franchise (Manning) throw 35 passes in a preseason game if it added absolutely no value to their preparation for the season? You can't put the red jersey on a QB during a game. You can in practices.

No one said it added no value to there preparedness, where are you getting that? If practice offered no value, there would be no practice. Of course there is value.

This thread is about Miller starting in the preseason. I'm saying that his starting over Irving won't stunt Irving at all, because there are a ton of practices where Irving is getting prepared for the season. Just because he didn't start over Miller in the televised scrimmage doesn't mean his preparedness will suffer.

Of course practice has value.

Have you attended training camp? Players get hurt. Brady had a pretty big injury scare in the patriots camp.

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 11:46 AM
No one said it added no value to there preparedness, where are you getting that? If practice offered no value, there would be no practice. Of course there is value.

This thread is about Miller starting in the preseason. I'm saying that his starting over Irving won't stunt Irving at all, because there are a ton of practices where Irving is getting prepared for the season. Just because he didn't start over Miller in the televised scrimmage doesn't mean his preparedness will suffer.

Of course practice has value.

Have you attended training camp? Players get hurt. Brady had a pretty big injury scare in the patriots camp.

Ok, so preseason games aren't meaningless then. That's my point. And wasn't Brady's injury scare when they were practicing against another team?

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 11:46 AM
I'll ask again. Why would the Broncos let their entire franchise (Manning) throw 35 passes in a preseason game if it added absolutely no value to their preparation for the season? You can't put the red jersey on a QB during a game. You can in practices.

Wait... NO Value? Lets look at what you are sayign compared to what we've said. I've said the pre-season games add no ADDITIONAL value over any pre-season scrimmage or practice. Would Manning have run the same kind of practice, throwing the ball or the game plan, at THIS POINT of the practice season without a pre-season game? Absolutely! We are getting to the front of the season, and the team needs work. We would have the same rosters, without pre-season games. The PRe-season games are for the FANS, not the coaching staffs.

Bowlen is obligated to put the starters on the field, to a degree, during the preseason games. The fans aren't going to pay to see scrubs alone. The third pre-season game gets the most revenue AND the highest rate in advertising. Before you start the non-sense of how the owners could just raise the ticket prices and advertising costs to make up the lost revenue from the pre-season games... Dude.... why wouldn't they raise it (if they could) and go ADDITIONAL to the pre-season revenue???? They WOULD if they could!!

There are price points in which fans won't pay, and advertisers won't spend.

Have you not heard the debates on whether or not pre-season games are worth the risk to playrs before? The REVENUE generated is worth the risk, and the NFL is ALLLLLL about the money.

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 11:48 AM
Wait... NO Value? Lets look at what you are sayign compared to what we've said. I've said the pre-season games add no ADDITIONAL value over any pre-season scrimmage or practice. Would Manning have run the same kind of practice, throwing the ball or the game plan, at THIS POINT of the practice season without a pre-season game? Absolutely! We are getting to the front of the season, and the team needs work. We would have the same rosters, without pre-season games. The PRe-season games are for the FANS, not the coaching staffs.

Bowlen is obligated to put the starters on the field, to a degree, during the preseason games. The fans aren't going to pay to see scrubs alone. The third pre-season game gets the most revenue AND the highest rate in advertising. Before you start the non-sense of how the owners could just raise the ticket prices and advertising costs to make up the lost revenue from the pre-season games... Dude.... why wouldn't they raise it (if they could) and go ADDITIONAL to the pre-season revenue???? They WOULD if they could!!

There are price points in which fans won't pay, and advertisers won't spend.

Have you not heard the debates on whether or not pre-season games are worth the risk to playrs before? The REVENUE generated is worth the risk, and the NFL is ALLLLLL about the money.

I'd like to see a single quote from a coach who has ever said this. Because pretty much every quote I have ever seen from a coach on preseason games is that they are a valuable tool in evaluating players in a game situation.

powderaddict
08-27-2013, 11:50 AM
Ok, so preseason games aren't meaningless then. That's my point. And wasn't Brady's injury scare when they were practicing against another team?

No, it was at their camp against their own defense. No other teams were involved.

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 11:51 AM
No, it was at their camp against their own defense. No other teams were involved.

It was a scrimmage with another team, I believe.

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 11:56 AM
No, it was at their camp against their own defense. No other teams were involved.

I'm pretty sure it was a dual practice against the bucs.

And regardless, obviously players can and do get hurt during practice. I'm not arguing that. But in a game where you can't wear a red jersey and the opposing D doesn't care if your QB gets hurt or not, he probably has a better chance of getting injured.

I don't have any numbers on this, but I would be willing to bet that more QB injuries in training camp come in preseason games than in practices.

powderaddict
08-27-2013, 11:57 AM
You are right. I thought it was against their own defense, just googled it, it was against the Bucs.

Which lends to the fact that all scrimmages and practices have risk.

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 11:57 AM
I'd like to see a single quote from a coach who has ever said this. Because pretty much every quote I have ever seen from a coach on preseason games is that they are a valuable tool in evaluating players in a game situation.

Wow... seriously, you really show your immaturity so often anymore. Really? you need a quote from a coach? You think the coaches are going to tell the fans that they are putting their players at risk for a meaningless game that is only for the owners revenue? Really? Have you heard ANY of the ex-players talk about pre-season games and how they don't feel it gives them any benefit, and that it was only for the owners pocket? NO? Ask Schlereth sometime about it and see what kind of answer you get.

The pre-season games are for the fans. Its to generate a buzz, talk, and excitement for the NFL. The NFL is the best about branding it's product, and the spectacle that has become the NFL draft not only raises buzz, but takes away from what??? the NBA playoffs. The NFL pre-season games not only create buzz, talk, and get the NFL talked about on the sports talk shows...but it takes time away from what? MLB.

The coaches don't need to say it. :lol:

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 12:00 PM
Wow... seriously, you really show your immaturity so often anymore. Really? you need a quote from a coach? You think the coaches are going to tell the fans that they are putting their players at risk for a meaningless game that is only for the owners revenue? Really? Have you heard ANY of the ex-players talk about pre-season games and how they don't feel it gives them any benefit, and that it was only for the owners pocket? NO? Ask Schlereth sometime about it and see what kind of answer you get.

The pre-season games are for the fans. Its to generate a buzz, talk, and excitement for the NFL. The NFL is the best about branding it's product, and the spectacle that has become the NFL draft not only raises buzz, but takes away from what??? the NBA playoffs. The NFL pre-season games not only create buzz, talk, and get the NFL talked about on the sports talk shows...but it takes time away from what? MLB.

The coaches don't need to say it. :lol:

So it's immature to want you to back up your claim with SOME sort of evidence? Ok... :lol:

Why hasn't a single former coach come out and said it then? They have no obligation to keep the NFL, owners, or fans happy.

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 12:00 PM
I don't have any numbers on this, but I would be willing to bet that more QB injuries in training camp come in preseason games than in practices.

Which actually makes the case that the pre-season games are all about the revenue stronger than you realize. You think the coaches don't want to put their players "at risk" for additional MILLIONS of cash, but it's that kind of thinking that makes you look as though you have your head in the sand.

The NFL and the NFL owners hid the truth about concussions for YEARS because they didn't care about their players. You think the "risk" of a pre-season game... in which players are only on the field for either one series, or at most, 1 half is worrisome to them? Dude, its about the money and always has been.

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 12:01 PM
So it's immature to want you to back up your claim with SOME sort of evidence? Ok... :lol:

Why hasn't a single former coach come out and said it then? They have no obligation to keep the NFL, owners, or fans happy.

They probably have :lol: But I'm not going to listen to every interview, every radio talk show host, or read every article to find it for you!! :laugh:

Screw that, I ahve absolutely NO reason to give a RATS ASS if you believe it to be true or not!! :lol:

BroncoWave
08-27-2013, 12:03 PM
Which actually makes the case that the pre-season games are all about the revenue stronger than you realize. You think the coaches don't want to put their players "at risk" for additional MILLIONS of cash, but it's that kind of thinking that makes you look as though you have your head in the sand.

The NFL and the NFL owners hid the truth about concussions for YEARS because they didn't care about their players. You think the "risk" of a pre-season game... in which players are only on the field for either one series, or at most, 1 half is worrisome to them? Dude, its about the money and always has been.

And if John Fox had decided not to play Manning for one snap in the preseason, would the Broncos or the NFL really have lost that much money? I don't think so. Season ticket holders have to pay for those preseason tickets either way...

Ravage!!!
08-27-2013, 12:24 PM
And if John Fox had decided not to play Manning for one snap in the preseason, would the Broncos or the NFL really have lost that much money? I don't think so. Season ticket holders have to pay for those preseason tickets either way...

Again, you are making a case for me. The fans know Manning is going to play, thus they pay for the tickets. They know NEXT year, that the starters will play because that is the normal schedule. That is why the ticket prices go up on the 3rd game, its why there is more interest in the third game, and why advertisement goes up on the third game. If the owners and coaches kept the starters (the product that the fans will PAY to see) on the bench, then they won't/don't buy pre-season tickets.

You are making an argument that supports my claim. I'm saying the rosters would be the SAME with pre-season games or no pre-season games. I'm saying that the team would run as efficiently in week 1 with or without pre-season games, and I"m saying the pre-season games are NO benefit over any other practice or scrimmage. The pre-seasong "game" is set up for the fans. It (the pre-season games) gives NO benefit over inter-team scrimmages and practices. Hell, in practice you can get more reps in than you can in the pre-season games.