View Full Version : Randy Gradishar will have to wait another year for Hall of Fame
Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2013, 02:08 PM
The Pro Football Hall of Fame senior committee has named former Raiders punter Ray Guy and Atlanta Falcons defensive end Claude Humphrey as its two nominees for the Class of 2014.
Senior committee nominations almost always are voted in, although don’t tell that to Humphrey. He was a senior committee nominee in 2009 and was wrongly denied by voters.
I’m very happy for Guy. He should have been in the Hall long ago. He should become the first punter elected into the Hall.
The shame with this announcement is once again former Broncos linebacker Randy Gradishar or others like cornerback Louis Wright were passed over again. They are in the senior committee pool after their 15-year term on the modern-era ballot elapsed.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2013/08/21/randy-gradishar-will-have-to-wait-one-more-year-for-hall-of-fame/20898/
Dzone
08-21-2013, 02:27 PM
Ray Guy in the HOF before Gradishar???? Further proof that the HOF is a joke
BroncoWave
08-21-2013, 02:46 PM
Ray Guy in the HOF before Gradishar???? Further proof that the HOF is a joke
I actually disagree with this. I think Guy is LONG overdue for the HOF. He is the best player ever to play his position. If you are the best player ever at your position, you should be in the HOF, regardless the position.
This isn't to say Gradishar doesn't deserve it, but Guy absolutely deserves it.
I will now take my beating for proclaiming a Raider should get in the HOF over a Bronco.
powderaddict
08-21-2013, 03:38 PM
I actually disagree with this. I think Guy is LONG overdue for the HOF. He is the best player ever to play his position. If you are the best player ever at your position, you should be in the HOF, regardless the position.
This isn't to say Gradishar doesn't deserve it, but Guy absolutely deserves it.
I will now take my beating for proclaiming a Raider should get in the HOF over a Bronco.
I'd say that statement is true for every position, with the exception of Punter.
Dzone
08-21-2013, 04:09 PM
How many tackles did Ray Guy have?
The dude must have weighed 130 pounds. He can go in the soccer HOF but not football.
Dapper Dan
08-21-2013, 04:36 PM
It's kinda sad that Guy went bankrupt and had to sell a Super Bowl ring.
Devilspawn
08-22-2013, 08:33 PM
I'd say that statement is true for every position, with the exception of Punter.
Curious as to why you think this, being that a bad punter can screw up a defense.
How many tackles did Ray Guy have?
The dude must have weighed 130 pounds. He can go in the soccer HOF but not football.
195 to be exact, 3 pounds HEAVIER than Champ Bailey for example.
I'll ask you the same question on why a punter or even he shouldn't be in the Hall.
Also note that some people tend to think punters are important.
Five months after his older brother, Dustin, became the NFL's highest-paid punter, Britton Colquitt has signed a three-year contract extension with the Denver Broncos that should surpass it in average salary per year.
Meanwhile, Kenny Anderson is frowning.
It's always weird to see special teams players in the hall. I know that they matter, but man...special teams...that name is insulting in itself.
BroncoWave
08-22-2013, 09:23 PM
If it's a position in the NFL, the best player ever at that position should be in the hall of fame. Easy as that.
If it's a position in the NFL, the best player ever at that position should be in the hall of fame. Easy as that.
But it's such a lame position, and man, even a borderline candidate probably made more of an impact in games than the punter did.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-22-2013, 09:26 PM
Curious as to why you think this, being that a bad punter can screw up a defense.
195 to be exact, 3 pounds HEAVIER than Champ Bailey for example.
I'll ask you the same question on why a punter or even he shouldn't be in the Hall.
Also note that some people tend to think punters are important.
I'm torn about wether or not he belongs in the hall, but there's no doubt he should be honored as the game's best ever punter. He was an exceptional athlete. Wasn't he the 3rd string qb for a while?
BroncoWave
08-22-2013, 09:27 PM
But it's such a lame position, and man, even a borderline candidate probably made more of an impact in games than the punter did.
It's still a position nonetheless. I'm not saying every great punter should be in the HoF, but I don't see what's wrong with letting just one in.
It's still a position nonetheless. I'm not saying every great punter should be in the HoF, but I don't see what's wrong with letting just one in.
Because it takes a spot away from someone who is more deserving. I can think of guys who won't sniff the Hall of Fame that I'd rather have on my team. Sometimes I wish they broke it down into tiers. Something like "there will up be to X number of offensive players, X number of defensive players, X number of special teams players, X number of coaching and X number of commissioners."
BroncoWave
08-22-2013, 09:33 PM
Because it takes a spot away from someone who is more deserving. I can think of guys who won't sniff the Hall of Fame that I'd rather have on my team. Sometimes I wish they broke it down into tiers. Something like "there will up be to X number of offensive players, X number of defensive players, X number of special teams players, X number of coaching and X number of commissioners."
Eh, he got in as a senior candidate. If the people he was up against aren't in by now either can you really say they were THAT deserving?
Eh, he got in as a senior candidate. If the people he was up against aren't in by now either can you really say they were THAT deserving?
Well I can tell you that Gradishar and Kenny Anderson were waaaaaaay more impactful than he was. And seeing how Grad and Anderson were both amongst the best ever during their time, yeah...I'd take them over the best punter ever.
BroncoWave
08-22-2013, 09:36 PM
Well I can tell you that Gradishar and Kenny Anderson were waaaaaaay more impactful than he was. And seeing how Grad and Anderson were both amongst the best ever during their time, yeah...I'd take them over the best punter ever.
I probably would too, but relative to their positions Guy made more impact as a punter than those guys did at their positions. Being the best ever at your position has to count for something. It's not like punting is unimportant, or the position wouldn't exist. Who knows how many points a good punter keeps the other team from scoring by hurting their field position?
I probably would too, but relative to their positions Guy made more impact as a punter than those guys did at their positions. Being the best ever at your position has to count for something. It's not like punting is unimportant, or the position wouldn't exist. Who knows how many points a good punter keeps the other team from scoring by hurting their field position?
Right, but relative to their positions, those guys make more of an impact in the context of the game. How many snaps does a punter play on average in a game, or in a year, or for his career? Imagine this, Ray Guy gets in and forces out Terrell Davis.
Compare the potential points a punter stops from field position to the points a guy like Gradishar stops as a beastly LB. Or the points that Kenny Anderson contributes to. Guy probably will never make the hall of fame, and that's only a positive.
BroncoWave
08-22-2013, 09:41 PM
Like I said, I'm not debating that those guys make a bigger overall contribution to the game than a punter. I will give you that point. My position is just that the best player ever at his position should be in the hall. I think it's ok to let one punter in.
Like I said, I'm not debating that those guys make a bigger overall contribution to the game than a punter. I will give you that point. My position is just that the best player ever at his position should be in the hall. I think it's ok to let one punter in.
They are cockroaches. They will spread.
BroncoWave
08-22-2013, 09:46 PM
They are cockroaches. They will spread.
Eh, I don't really think so. If it took this long to get one punter in, I don't think another will get in any time soon. Now that the punter advocates have their guy in, they will probably relax.
Eh, I don't really think so. If it took this long to get one punter in, I don't think another will get in any time soon. Now that the punter advocates have their guy in, they will probably relax.
Cancer. Deathly Hall of Fame cancer!
BroncoWave
08-22-2013, 09:51 PM
Cancer. Deathly Hall of Fame cancer!
King, if another punter gets in I will join you on your crusade.
King, if another punter gets in I will join you on your crusade.
They must be destroyed.
Devilspawn
08-22-2013, 10:24 PM
I'm torn about wether or not he belongs in the hall, but there's no doubt he should be honored as the game's best ever punter. He was an exceptional athlete. Wasn't he the 3rd string qb for a while?
Kinda sorta. I think they officially termed in the emergency QB. He did kickoff at times.
Jsteve01
08-22-2013, 10:28 PM
Eh, he got in as a senior candidate. If the people he was up against aren't in by now either can you really say they were THAT deserving?BTB I'm not trying to be one of the old school snobs, but I highly doubt you ever saw Randy play or you wouldn't say that. If he had played on the 90's teams with ESPN highlights and nationally televised games Gradishar would have been a shoo in.
Devilspawn
08-22-2013, 10:39 PM
Right, but relative to their positions, those guys make more of an impact in the context of the game. How many snaps does a punter play on average in a game, or in a year, or for his career? Imagine this, Ray Guy gets in and forces out Terrell Davis.
Compare the potential points a punter stops from field position to the points a guy like Gradishar stops as a beastly LB. Or the points that Kenny Anderson contributes to. Guy probably will never make the hall of fame, and that's only a positive.
Number of punts depends on the offense, which is not the punter's fault. His job is to make sure the opposition does not get good field position. Guy mastered the position.
There are plenty of players on all positions (except punter) for most teams that should be in. The fact that the NFL only allows a set number of players in a year is not the punter's fault.
You'd have to have a punter like Ray Guy on your team to appreciate what he did. The position shouldn't be trivialized. Serious question, do you think the NFL should get rid of punters and just enforce a turnover on downs?
Number of punts depends on the offense, which is not the punter's fault. His job is to make sure the opposition does not get good field position. Guy mastered the position.
There are plenty of players on all positions (except punter) for most teams that should be in. The fact that the NFL only allows a set number of players in a year is not the punter's fault.
You'd have to have a punter like Ray Guy on your team to appreciate what he did. The position shouldn't be trivialized. Serious question, do you think the NFL should get rid of punters and just enforce a turnover on downs?
Yeah, but it's still rare for a punter to get a lot of snaps in a game...
That's the point. You can be a great punter...but you're still a....punter. At what point do you look at a great punter and go "I want him over that good - not that I just used good - LB, QB, WR, DB, DE, WR, OL, DT, or safety?
He's a punter. They are not in the hall of fame for a reason.
Dapper Dan
08-22-2013, 10:51 PM
If they're great at their position, I see nothing wrong with a punter in the Hall of Fame.
Devilspawn
08-22-2013, 11:01 PM
Yeah, but it's still rare for a punter to get a lot of snaps in a game...
That's the point. You can be a great punter...but you're still a....punter. At what point do you look at a great punter and go "I want him over that good - not that I just used good - LB, QB, WR, DB, DE, WR, OL, DT, or safety?
He's a punter. They are not in the hall of fame for a reason.
The reason "they" are not in the Hall of Fame is because, to my knowledge, only one was ever considered. That's how great he is to stand out.
He was a key weapon of the Raiders teams he was on. Most of their defenses were solid but not all-timers like the Orange Crush Gradishar was on. But what made them BETTER was field position. No other punter had an impact like Guy did to where he is credited with being part of the success. You don't look at a great punter and go such and such because there were few, or a couple.
Like I said you probably never saw the impact a punter made in a game. Maybe you will during a key game, maybe not. He was a punter for championship teams and not because he was just collecting a check. He was part of the success.
Yes, I have seen punters impact a game. The Bengals have a great punter and he helps the defense out a lot with field position. And he punts about 3-6 times a game... I'm fairly certain that is probably the average for most punters.
If he gets in over a real player, that'd be a shame. It's like the people who want Tasker in the Hall of Fame.
Dzone
08-22-2013, 11:18 PM
Im okay with a punter making the hall, as long as Gradishar, Terrel Davis, Louis Wright and Steve Atwater are in first. If Ray Guy goes in before any of those guys, the hof is a sham.
If Marv Levy is in the HOF, why isnt Dan Reeves? It doesnt make sense.
Dan Reeves has participated in more Super Bowls as player/assistant coach/Head Coach than anyone else. He played in two Super Bowls, Super Bowl V and Super Bowl VI and also was an assistant coach in three more, Super Bowl X, Super Bowl XII, Super Bowl XIII, and was Head Coach in four more Super Bowl XXI, Super Bowl XXII and Super Bowl XXIV as the Denver Broncos' head coach, and Super Bowl XXXIII as the head coach of the Atlanta Falcons.
Softskull
08-22-2013, 11:26 PM
Ray Guy belongs in the HOF. He was so vastly superior to all of the kickers of his era. The guy was a complete freak and really the only ST person I think should be there.
The simple fact that all of us Broncos are still talking about that moose legged devil should mean something.
Broncolingus
08-22-2013, 11:57 PM
Randy Gradishar will have to wait another year for Hall of Fame
3335
powderaddict
08-23-2013, 10:10 AM
Good lord, I never said get rid of punters or they are unimportant. I just don't think the difference between a good and great punter is enough to put them in the Hall of Fame. They have a big impact on games, but not as much as oh say a Running Back who wins Superbowl MVP's, sets postseason rushing records, and rushes for over 2,000 yards.
Having a crappy punter has much more impact on the game than having a great punter, IMO.
Dzone
08-23-2013, 10:13 AM
It doesnt seem like punters kick it out of bounds as often as they used to. Is that true? Just wondering
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-23-2013, 10:44 AM
It doesnt seem like punters kick it out of bounds as often as they used to. Is that true? Just wondering
I saw a special on it last year. It discussed how the "corner coffin kickers" are a dead breed. Now there is a new breed of punter that puts a rotation on the ball that makes it stop or bounce backwards so the kickers just try to put the ball close to the goal line instead of kicking it out of bounds.
Eh, he got in as a senior candidate. If the people he was up against aren't in by now either can you really say they were THAT deserving?
I dunno....was Gradishar THAT deserving?
jhildebrand
08-23-2013, 02:23 PM
Gradishar should be in before Harry Carson! If the Grad played on the east coast, like Carson, he would be in already. #flyoverstate
BroncoWave
08-28-2013, 06:11 PM
I dunno....was Gradishar THAT deserving?
I wasn't alive back then so I honestly can't say.
TXBRONC
08-29-2013, 08:45 AM
Ray Guy belongs in the HOF. He was so vastly superior to all of the kickers of his era. The guy was a complete freak and really the only ST person I think should be there.
The simple fact that all of us Broncos are still talking about that moose legged devil should mean something.
He's only punter to be selected in first round and he proved it wasn't joke. As good as he was I can't see putting a punter in Hall of Fame ahead of someone like Randy Gradishar. A guy who averaged 200 tackles a year for his career deserves to be in Hall of Fame ahead of Ray Guy.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-29-2013, 10:33 AM
He's only punter to be selected in first round and he proved it wasn't joke. As good as he was I can't see putting a punter in Hall of Fame ahead of someone like Randy Gradishar. A guy who averaged 200 tackles a year for his career deserves to be in Hall of Fame ahead of Ray Guy.
Randy should have been a first ballot HOF'r.
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