View Full Version : Von gets 6 game suspension
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 04:04 PM
Mike Klis @MikeKlis 12m
It's official: A six-game suspension for #Broncos pass-rushing LB Von Miller. Details coming at http://denverpost.com/broncos
G_Money
08-20-2013, 04:06 PM
:throwrock: :damnmate: :banghead:
~G
Timmy!
08-20-2013, 04:09 PM
Sucks. Looking at the schedule though u really couldn't pick a better 6 game stretch for him to miss. Raiders, jags and eagles are in there. We get Von for both chief games, both charger games, pats, and Texans. Its a shitty silver lining, but there it is.
broncofaninfla
08-20-2013, 04:09 PM
The NFL has to improve this process. This was obviously leaked to the media before Von was told. With that said he must have really effed up, hope he learns and grows from it.
https://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/Press-Releases/Statement-by-Von-Miller-on-Six-Game-Suspension/
The Substances of Abuse policy requires everyone to comply with the rules. Although my suspension doesn’t result from a positive test, there is no excuse for my violations of the rules. I made mistakes and my suspension has hurt my team, Broncos fans, and myself. I am especially sorry for the effect of my bad decisions on others. I will not make the same mistakes about adhering to the policy in the future. During my time off the field, I will work tirelessly and focus exclusively on remaining in peak shape. I look forward to contributing immediately upon my return to the field and bringing a championship back to the people of Denver.
dogfish
08-20-2013, 04:11 PM
okay, von, use your "vacation" to get your shit together!
:yardog:
BigDaddyBronco
08-20-2013, 04:12 PM
Total BS. No due process in the NFL. No failed test, normally a four game suspension, but we're the NFL and we can make up rules as we go and do what we want.
The NFLPA better be all over this.
And Von Miller. Time to grow up son, don't jeopardize millions of dollars so you can smoke pot and party. That is what teenagers do, time to be a man.
I bet he still ends up with twelve sacks this year.
G_Money
08-20-2013, 04:14 PM
Nah, it's no big. Besides, like Ravage says, I'm sure his other idiocy this month didn't influence the negotiated appeal process at all, since the violations are unrelated. Von was always gonna get 6 games. Heck, that's what everyone heard from the start, right? :eyeroll:
Von's ridiculous press conference doesn't put me in a better mood. "I've just got to grow up and be more mature and handle my business."
Luckily it's not like he already promised us he'd done that after his first run-in with the league his rookie year. Oh, wait. :tsk:
~G
TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 04:16 PM
Sucks. Looking at the schedule though u really couldn't pick a better 6 game stretch for him to miss. Raiders, jags and eagles are in there. We get Von for both chief games, both charger games, pats, and Texans. Its a shitty silver lining, but there it is.
Silver linings are suppose to be made of silver not shit Timmy. :tsk:
Anyway I guess it's better at the beginning of the year and not the middle.
DenBronx
08-20-2013, 04:17 PM
He fckd up. He screwed us.
Now he has to pay and unfortunately, so do we.
Next man up.
DenBronx
08-20-2013, 04:18 PM
Damn fax machine!
I used to blame everything on McDaniels. Now I blame everything on the fax machine.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 04:19 PM
The NFL on Tuesday slapped Broncos star linebacker Von Miller with a six-game suspension for violating its drug policy.
Never mind the Baltimore Ravens. The Broncos' chances to win the Super Bowl were delivered a serious blow by the league office.
The suspension comes after league officials and Miller's lawyers finalized a resolution Tuesday.
"The Substances of Abuse policy requires everyone to comply with the rules," Miller said in a statement.
rest - http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23902185/von-miller-suspended-six-games-by-nfl-broncos
So he admits to the wrong doing (notice he uses the plural, too).
Can you guys stop blaming the NFL for this mess?
dogfish
08-20-2013, 04:21 PM
yea, this is exactly the type of situation that made me so pissed over faxgate. . .
hopefully philips has something left, and can integrate into a new scheme and be productive. . . let's all keep our fingers crossed that wolfe can play week one, we're gonna need him. . .
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 04:22 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Denver Broncos linebacker Von Miller will serve a six-game suspension for violating NFL's substance abuse policy, the Associated Press reported, citing a person familiar with Miller's negotiations with the league.
The league wanted a longer penalty for the third-year linebacker, but the sides agreed to less than half the season. Miller's suspension will begin Aug. 30. He is eligible to return for Denver's seventh game, Oct. 20 at the Indianapolis Colts.
"The Substances of Abuse policy requires everyone to comply with the rules," Miller said in a statement. "Although my suspension doesn't result from a positive test, there is no excuse for my violations of the rules. I made mistakes and my suspension has hurt my team, Broncos fans, and myself. I am especially sorry for the effect of my bad decisions on others. I will not make the same mistakes about adhering to the policy in the future. During my time off the field, I will work tirelessly and focus exclusively on remaining in peak shape. I look forward to contributing immediately upon my return to the field and bringing a championship back to the people of Denver."
http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9586206/von-miller-denver-broncos-serve-6-game-suspension
DenBronx
08-20-2013, 04:26 PM
The league wanted a longer suspension? Like a full season?
6 games is what Miller deserves. Hopefully he will stay out of trouble now. If I was a gambling man......I wouldnt bet on it.
Nice going, jerkoff. I love you, but ******* hate you right now.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 04:26 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. — Denver Broncos linebacker Von Miller will be suspended without pay for the first six games of the season.
The six game ban is the result of negotiations between the NFL, Miller's lawyers and the NFL Players Association after the league found Miller in violation of the league's substance abuse program this offseason, a person with knowledge of the negotiations told USA TODAY Sports.
The person spoke on condition of anonymity because of confidentiality rules.
There will be no further appeal, and Miller will begin serving his suspension after the Broncos' final preseason game.
rest - http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2013/08/20/von-miller-suspension-denver-broncos/2678349/
What is the punishment if he gets in trouble for the same thing again? I heard somewhere that it could possibly be banishment? I don't think I believe that.
DenBronx
08-20-2013, 04:28 PM
Is there anyway Roger can reduce the suspension on his own? Without appeals? I believe I have seen him do this before.
DenBronx
08-20-2013, 04:28 PM
What is the punishment if he gets in trouble for the same thing again? I heard somewhere that it could possibly be banishment? I don't think I believe that.
I would think a mandatory full season.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 04:29 PM
The suspension was trigged this summer after Miller, who was placed in the NFL's drug program after a positive test for marijuana in his rookie year in 2011, spilled a urine sample during a scheduled test at the Broncos' facility before an offseason workout. The urine sample Miller provided after the practice was found to be diluted, the person said.
In dispute was whether this should count as a third or second violation of the league's drug policy. A second violation would result in a four-game suspension, while a third offense would trigger the year-long suspension.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2013/08/20/von-miller-suspension-denver-broncos/2678349/
TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 04:29 PM
yea, this is exactly the type of situation that made me so pissed over faxgate. . .
hopefully philips has something left, and can integrate into a new scheme and be productive. . . let's all keep our fingers crossed that wolfe can play week one, we're gonna need him. . .
Me too.
Dang this stinks.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 04:32 PM
from article I posted
"In dispute was whether this should count as a third or second violation of the league's drug policy. A second violation would result in a four-game suspension, while a third offense would trigger the year-long suspension."
Since this was Von's second violation, which the above states a second violation would result in a four-game suspension, was he given a six-game suspension, as, I would imagine, it was determined that he spilled the first sample on purpose?
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 04:34 PM
from article I posted
"In dispute was whether this should count as a third or second violation of the league's drug policy. A second violation would result in a four-game suspension, while a third offense would trigger the year-long suspension."
Since this was Von's second violation, which the above states a second violation would result in a four-game suspension, was he given a six-game suspension, as, I would imagine, it was determined that he spilled the first sample on purpose?
That's apparently what the NFL was trying to claim, and then tried to claim that was the second violation and the third violation was the diluted test on the same freakin' day.
That's some bullshit if you ask me.
dogfish
08-20-2013, 04:34 PM
What is the punishment if he gets in trouble for the same thing again? I heard somewhere that it could possibly be banishment? I don't think I believe that.
there is no "banishment" in the CBA, i'm pretty positive. . . a one-year suspension would be next. . .
vettesplus
08-20-2013, 04:40 PM
I hate to be the one to say it, but I don't think we have heard the last of von and troubles, I think this kind of thing just runs in his blood, or urin to be more direct... sad to see such a great talent be pulled down by this bad habit....
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 04:41 PM
That's apparently what the NFL was trying to claim, and then tried to claim that was the second violation and the third violation was the diluted test on the same freakin' day.
That's some bullshit if you ask me.
If I am looking at this correctly - Von had two violations - the initial violation, which put him in the program, and the diluted test, which would have been the second violation. I am still confused why it is a 6 game suspension, vs a 4 game suspension.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 04:42 PM
If I am looking at this correctly - Von had two violations - the initial violation, which put him in the program, and the diluted test, which would have been the second violation. I am still confused why it is a 6 game suspension, vs a 4 game suspension.
The NFL is saying the spilled test is violation No. 2 and the diluted test is violation No. 3.
TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 04:42 PM
there is no "banishment" in the CBA, i'm pretty positive. . . a one-year suspension would be next. . .
One of things that was brought up is that League wanted to give him an eight game suspension.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 04:43 PM
One of things that was brought up is that League wanted to give him an eight game suspension.
The USA Today report said they wanted a year.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 04:46 PM
The NFL is saying the spilled test is violation No. 2 and the diluted test is violation No. 3.
OK - makes sense. And they have two drug policies
The NFL has two drug policies - one that covers use of performance-enhancing substances and the ''Policy and Program for Substances of Abuse'' that applied to Miller's case.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/broncos-sign-veteran-lenon-shore-200116391--nfl.html
Nomad
08-20-2013, 04:47 PM
It's a done deal, now the BRONCOS have to move forward while not getting screwed too much by the missing presence of Miller. And hopefully, Von will learn from this.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 04:50 PM
Vic Lombardi @VicLombardi 29m
This will loom large for the rest of the year. Von is now one mis-step from a season-long penalty.
Von WILL be allowed to be at the facility during his suspension. Just can't practice. Had he tested positive for PED's, no facility.
TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 04:50 PM
The USA Today report said they wanted a year.
That would have been breaking their own rules if I have understood you correctly.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 04:51 PM
That would have been breaking their own rules if I have understood you correctly.
I thought so too, but apparently violation No. 3 is a year. Not eight games.
jhildebrand
08-20-2013, 04:53 PM
Von was lucky he didn't get a year this time around. He has the first failed test from his rookie season that put him in the program. He had a second failed test along the way that resulted in his pay being docked for 4 games last year. Now you add the spilled test and the diluted test and you are looking at what the NFL could deem to be failed test #3 and/or 4.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 04:55 PM
Von was lucky he didn't get a year this time around. He has the first failed test from his rookie season that put him in the program. He had a second failed test along the way that resulted in his pay being docked for 4 games last year. Now you add the spilled test and the diluted test and you are looking at what the NFL could deem to be failed test #3 and/or 4.
Where are you getting that from?
TimHippo
08-20-2013, 04:57 PM
And Von Miller. Time to grow up son, don't jeopardize millions of dollars so you can smoke pot and party. That is what teenagers do, time to be a man.
He already did jeopardize millions. His endorsements are going to go to zero (thanks to his multiple drug failures, his arrest warrants, his driving problems, his being involved in that murder mess), and it will take a long time to rehabilitate the great reputation he once had.
He was one of the more popular defensive players in terms of endorsements and advertisers before all this so he really blew alot of money.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 04:58 PM
Where are you getting that from?
Agree - I did not hear that
TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 05:00 PM
Well Timmy in another thread talked about the silver lining being that first part of the schedule is supposedly favorable. The greater silver lining is that we still have Manning and he is healthier this year than he was last year.
TimHippo
08-20-2013, 05:00 PM
Where are you getting that from?
I think he's right. This is his 3rd or 4th violation. The 3rd violation triggers the random drug tests. Before that IIRC they tell you when and at what time the drug tests are. (and he still failed those despite being given the times).
Northman
08-20-2013, 05:02 PM
Thanks Von, thanks for letting the team down, thanks for letting the fans down.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 05:02 PM
I think he's right. This is his 3rd or 4th violation. The 3rd violation triggers the random drug tests. Before that IIRC they tell you when and at what time the drug tests are. (and he still failed those despite being given the times).
Where are you hearing this? Carol has posted four articles and none of them indicate any of this.
jhildebrand
08-20-2013, 05:06 PM
Where are you getting that from?
It was reported when the news that he may be suspended broke about a month ago. It came out that he had his original violation that put him in the program and the surprise locally by the reporters was that he was docked 4 games pay last season. The shock is that it was hush hush until this news broke.
I am trying to find the reference to the game checks being docked. Because that would make this his 3rd and or 4th violation depending on how the spill and diluted sample are counted (separate or individual).
Nomad
08-20-2013, 05:10 PM
So, in other words, if Von screws up again on a drug test, he'll be gone for a year.
silkamilkamonico
08-20-2013, 05:11 PM
It was reported when the news that he may be suspended broke about a month ago. It came out that he had his original violation that put him in the program and the surprise locally by the reporters was that he was docked 4 games pay last season. The shock is that it was hush hush until this news broke.
I am trying to find the reference to the game checks being docked. Because that would make this his 3rd and or 4th violation depending on how the spill and diluted sample are counted (separate or individual).
Clough was talking about this a few weeks ago. Apparently he did fail a drug test a while back which put him in the program to be tested throughout the year as opposed to right before training camp. Ofcourse with all the terrible "breaking news" on this subject, from weed and molly to visiting troops across seas, it wouldn't surprise me if even that was incorrect. It will remain hush hush on a confirmation basis because the NFL won't release information on any initial failed drug test.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 05:13 PM
from article:
That would imply Miller is in violation of the league's substance-abuse policy. The Denver Post has received documentation stating Miller had multiple positive tests for marijuana and an undisclosed amphetamine during his rookie season of 2011. It's unclear whether the league considered those positive tests as one "failed" incident.
Under the NFL's substance-abuse policy, a player cannot be disciplined with a four-game suspension until after he has been placed in "Stage 2" of the intervention program.
Once in stage 2, a player who fails a drug test would be fined four 17ths of his salary, and suspended four games, if he fails to comply with stage 1. Once in stage 2, players are subject to random drug testing up to 10 times a month.
Players move to stage 3 if they have two positive tests when in stage 2 or one positive test to go with one instance when the player failed to comply with the program. The minimum suspension for a violation in stage 3 is a calendar year.
rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_23711440/broncos-star-von-miller-suspended-four-games-by
There is no mention of Von testing positive to anything in 2012. He did get fined a few times for hits during the season
jhildebrand
08-20-2013, 05:15 PM
Clough was talking about this a few weeks ago. Apparently he did fail a drug test a while back which put him in the program to be tested throughout the year as opposed to right before training camp. Ofcourse with all the terrible "breaking news" on this subject, from weed and molly to visiting troops across seas, it wouldn't surprise me if even that was incorrect. It will remain hush hush on a confirmation basis because the NFL won't release information on any initial failed drug test.
The weird thing is the subsequent violation that resulted on the 4 game checks being docked was reported by everyone at the post and Fan/ESPN. I remember Kreckman and even the guys on the Fan talking about all of it. Now I tried to go back to some of the articles that referenced the 4 game pay fine for 2012 and I can't find anything. It's weird because it was reported everywhere. Like you said, maybe a lot of it was retracted for being incorrect BUT how did they get it off the web?
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 05:16 PM
from article:
rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_23711440/broncos-star-von-miller-suspended-four-games-by
There is no mention of Von testing positive to anything in 2012. He did get fined a few times for hits during the season
Well, if he tested positive, then was tested again a week or two later what he had use might have been still in his system. I'm curious about how far apart his tests were.
silkamilkamonico
08-20-2013, 05:17 PM
from article:
rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_23711440/broncos-star-von-miller-suspended-four-games-by
There is no mention of Von testing positive to anything in 2012. He did get fined a few times for hits during the season
The speculation is it was in his rookie year, which put him in the program for 2 years. If he wasn't in the program, he wouldn't have been tested thoughout the year which wouldn't have lead to any test with a spilled sample. This is all coming from Clough and the others on that radio station.
silkamilkamonico
08-20-2013, 05:18 PM
The weird thing is the subsequent violation that resulted on the 4 game checks being docked was reported by everyone at the post and Fan/ESPN. I remember Kreckman and even the guys on the Fan talking about all of it. Now I tried to go back to some of the articles that referenced the 4 game pay fine for 2012 and I can't find anything. It's weird because it was reported everywhere. Like you said, maybe a lot of it was retracted for being incorrect BUT how did they get it off the web?
Yea I have been hearing that talk on the radioall summer, and was thinking it was common knowledge that he failed a drug test his rookie year, but who knows. That isn't anything that would be confirmed by the NFL.
silkamilkamonico
08-20-2013, 05:22 PM
I guess you didn't notice the fact that he had "spilled" his first urine sample, and then turned in a diluted sample in it's place??? Since he tried to manipulate the results, THAT is why its a SIX game suspension and had NOTHING to do with his driving ticket violation :eye roll back:
But then...you just believe what you want, G.... no worries here.
People thinking this is somehow tied to his driving ticket or any other off field incident isn't following the story. Like you said the NFL is viewing this situation as Miller trying to cheat the system, which is why it's an extreme situation.
"Manipulating the results" is what got DJ WIlliams 3 additional game added on to his suspension last year, I'm not sure why people aren't connecting that.
Ravage!!!
08-20-2013, 05:25 PM
The NFL is saying the spilled test is violation No. 2 and the diluted test is violation No. 3.
From what I'm understanding.. the diluted test is a violation on it's own since it was trying to manipulate the test. That violation, from what I hear on the radio, is what increased his suspension. You can't try to hide, manipulate, or hinder the process on TOP of testing positive. Von knew he was guilty and thus tried to pull a "oops I spilled" the urine then tried to give a diluted down sample. It's like a comedy movie.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 05:25 PM
The speculation is it was in his rookie year, which put him in the program for 2 years. If he wasn't in the program, he wouldn't have been tested thoughout the year which wouldn't have lead to any test with a spilled sample. This is all coming from Clough and the others on that radio station.
No speculation - the article I posted from the DP stated that he tested positive in 2011 - his rookie year. That is where all of this started. In the DP article I posted, it says nothing that Von also tested positive in 2012. If he had tested positive in 2012, after initially testing positive in 2011, they would have done more than just take money from him - he would have been faced with a suspension.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 05:25 PM
Yea I have been hearing that talk on the radioall summer, and was thinking it was common knowledge that he failed a drug test his rookie year, but who knows. That isn't anything that would be confirmed by the NFL.
Yes, one test, which got him into the system. JH is saying there was a second one last year and he only had four games pay docked.
silkamilkamonico
08-20-2013, 05:28 PM
Ok - didn't hear anything about a second one last year.
G_Money
08-20-2013, 05:35 PM
https://www.nflplayers.com/Articles/Press-Releases/Statement-by-Von-Miller-on-Six-Game-Suspension/
The Substances of Abuse policy requires everyone to comply with the rules. Although my suspension doesn’t result from a positive test, there is no excuse for my violations of the rules. I made mistakes and my suspension has hurt my team, Broncos fans, and myself. I am especially sorry for the effect of my bad decisions on others. I will not make the same mistakes about adhering to the policy in the future. During my time off the field, I will work tirelessly and focus exclusively on remaining in peak shape. I look forward to contributing immediately upon my return to the field and bringing a championship back to the people of Denver.
At least he says "I made mistakes" and not "Mistakes were made" as if the one-armed man was in the john with him during the urine sample.
A lot of "I" statements. Now I just need him to repeat this one until he comprehends:
http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/7/72/2CE20.png
Broncolingus
08-20-2013, 05:51 PM
Von gets 6 game suspension
3311
(...not tryin' to one-up ya, G...)
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 05:58 PM
I am definitely upset with Von - hopefully this will be the last time we hear that he has done something wrong. My silver lining - Von will hit the field for the last 10 games totally healthy, with no affects from the previous 6 games, and play lights out.
Magnificent Seven
08-20-2013, 06:07 PM
Let's move on. Broncos can win without Von Miller. Wesley Woodyard is our guy and Danny Trevathan can take over Von Miller's place.
Magnificent Seven
08-20-2013, 06:08 PM
SLB Danny Trevathan
MLB Nate Iriving
WLB Wesley Woodyard
G_Money
08-20-2013, 06:17 PM
And now y'all know why even though I have a Miller jersey, Woodyard remains my adopt-a-player. Might have to get a Wes jersey.
dogfish
08-20-2013, 06:17 PM
Per a league source, the NFL wanted to impose a suspension of more than six games on Miller under Section I.C.3.f of the substance-abuse policy, which permits “additional discipline” where a player engages in a “deliberate effort to substitute or adulterate a specimen or to alter a Test result.”
Others have reported that the first sample collected from Miller was spilled and the second sample was determined to be diluted. The league, we’re told, believes that the spillage occurred as part of an effort to alter the result, possibly through the adulteration or substitution of the sample.
The NFL agreed to suspend Miller only six games via negotiation with the union. Per the source, the initial breach of confidentiality that resulted in the media learning of Miller’s potential suspension became leverage in the discussions.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/20/league-wanted-to-suspend-miller-longer-case-settled-at-six/
Broncolingus
08-20-2013, 06:19 PM
SLB Danny Trevathan
MLB Nate Iriving
WLB Wesley Woodyard
IDK, Magnificent...
...I think Woodyard will be Mike.
JMO though...
dogfish
08-20-2013, 06:22 PM
SLB Danny Trevathan
MLB Nate Iriving
WLB Wesley Woodyard
irving has been playing SAM all pre-season, it's all but given at this point that he'll start there in von's absence. . . with woodyard at MIKE and trevathan at WILL-- pending some additional shuffling after the acquisition of lenon, which i doubt happens this late in the process. . .
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23893847/broncos-stewart-bradley-have-wrist-surgery-miss-several
Magnificent Seven
08-20-2013, 06:27 PM
Should they switch to a 3-4 defense?
Should they switch to a 3-4 defense?
Yes.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 06:29 PM
We essentially do play a 3-4. Wolfe lines up in the 5 tech a lot.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 06:30 PM
Lindsay Jones @bylindsayhjones 36m
John Elway told us that the #Broncos first learned of potential Von Miller suspension in May. So, yes, well after Dumervil was gone.
Elway: "We're obviously frustrated with what happened. Disappointed in Von." #Broncos
dogfish
08-20-2013, 06:31 PM
Should they switch to a 3-4 defense?
absolutely not. . . no team is going to switch base defenses two weeks before the season starts. . . besides which, we barely have enough decent, healthy linebackers to run a 43, let alone a 34-- and none of our linebackers are suited for the 3-4 anyway, other than using shaun philips at OLB. . . it's "next man up," same as it's always been. . .
dogfish
08-20-2013, 06:32 PM
We essentially do play a 3-4. Wolfe lines up in the 5 tech a lot.
that's a 4-3 under front. . .
MO, post that old article about the over and under. . .
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 06:32 PM
Jeff Legwold @Jeff_Legwold 17m
John Fox on Miller suspension: “We have great resources, we’ll do everything we can to help him the best we can.''
Elway on suspension: “We’ll take it one step at a time ... first step now is to make sure we’re getting Von the help he needs to get.’’
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 06:34 PM
that's a 4-3 under front. . .
MO, post that old article about the over and under. . .
I thought he lined up as a 5 tech about 65% of the time?
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 06:34 PM
that's a 4-3 under front. . .
MO, post that old article about the over and under. . .
It's archived on the New York Times website somewhere.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 06:35 PM
I thought he lined up as a 5 tech about 65% of the time?
In an under front. It's actually is closer to a 5-2 than a 3-4.
It's the defense Tampa used for years. Everyone always talked about the "Tampa 2" but it was the under front that created the pressure.
Nomad
08-20-2013, 06:35 PM
First step, John, is Von has to want to help himself. If he doesn't, then no program in the world will/can help him.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 06:36 PM
In an under front. It actually is closer to a 5-2 than a 3-4...
Right-
A lot of formations last year looked like something Pittsburgh would run, right?
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 06:37 PM
First step, John, is Von has to want to help himself. If he doesn't, then no program in the world will/can help him.
I wonder how Von feels, knowing that the front office thinks he needs help.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 06:37 PM
Right-
A lot of formations last year looked like something Pittsburgh would run, right?
Nah. Check my edit. And Fox used it some in Carolina too.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 06:38 PM
Nah. Check my edit. And Fox used it some in Carolina too.
Pitt uses a lot of 5-2 formations.
Nomad
08-20-2013, 06:38 PM
I wonder how Von feels, knowing that the front office thinks he needs help.
Hopefully, he believes weed and Molly aren't worth the headache it causes his career and team.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 06:39 PM
Hopefully, he believes weed and Molly aren't worth the headache it causes his career and team.
Well, hopefully he realizes the frat days are over.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 06:40 PM
Pitt uses a lot of 5-2 formations.
I guess I hadn't noticed that. They still have the nose tackle nearly straight up on the center, though, don't they?
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 06:42 PM
I guess I hadn't noticed that. They still have the nose tackle nearly straight up on the center, though, don't they?
Yes
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 06:42 PM
I just dont understand why the NFL cant be like the NBA. NBA learned it wasnt worth it to have their stars sitting on the sidelines.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 06:42 PM
I guess I hadn't noticed that. They still have the nose tackle nearly straight up on the center, though, don't they?
I guess I assumed that's where Fox got it. Doesn't he come from the LeBeau coaching tree?
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 06:43 PM
I just dont understand why the NFL cant be like the NBA.
Because the NBA market is 1\5 the size of the NFL's maybe?
Nomad
08-20-2013, 06:45 PM
Speaking of Steelers defense, time to start growing the Brett Keisel beard for the football season. Hopefully I can make it past January this time:lol:
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 06:46 PM
I guess I assumed that's where Fox got it. Doesn't he come from the LeBeau coaching tree?
No. It's two different schemes. Pittsburgh's is a base 3-4, and this scheme is a 4-3 under. Tackles have different assignments. He did coach under LeBeau for a year, but he comes from a 4-3 background.
I just dont understand why the NFL cant be like the NBA. NBA learned it wasnt worth it to have their stars sitting on the sidelines.
The NBA sucks...the worst product of all professional sports. Is that what you want from the NFL?
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 06:47 PM
No. It's two different schemes. Pittsburgh's is a base 3-4, and this scheme is a 4-3 under. Tackles have different assignments. He did coach under LeBeau for a year, but he comes from a 4-3 background.
Yeah, I understand that. I'm more referring to the 5-2 look.
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 06:52 PM
The NBA sucks...the worst product of all professional sports. Is that what you want from the NFL?
i want the NFL to realize their rules no longer make any sense.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 06:54 PM
The NBA sucks...the worst product of all professional sports. Is that what you want from the NFL?
The NBA tests. I'm not sure what he's referring to.
Nomad
08-20-2013, 06:54 PM
The NBA sucks...the worst product of all professional sports. Is that what you want from the NFL?
You mean 'The Bird' is not a good ambassador of the NBA:lol:
The NBA tests. I'm not sure what he's referring to.
I'm not really sure of the details, but I think it's pretty common knowledge that NBA players like to get high
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 06:57 PM
I'm not really sure of the details, but I think it's pretty common knowledge that NBA players like to get high
I think they test everyone during training camp, no random testing unless you're a violator. They don't test in the offseason, but they do test and marijuana is a banned substance for NBA players.
I think they test everyone during training camp, no random testing unless you're a violator. They don't test in the offseason, but they do test and marijuana is a banned substance for NBA players.
LC will be crushed.
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 06:59 PM
not really. Because the offseason part is what matters. What do you think the olympic game athletes who use do? Its been widely admitted.
not really. Because the offseason part is what matters. What do you think all the olympic game athletes do? Its been widely admitted.
So ALL olympic athletes get high? I'm glad you are sticking to the facts.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 07:01 PM
not really. Because the offseason part is what matters. What do you think all the olympic game athletes do? Its been widely admitted.
All? That is a very generalized statement. It's not even close to "all".
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 07:01 PM
Yes sorry all was the wrong word to use. I meant all by all the ones who do use.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 07:02 PM
Bluntman and Chronic to save the day!
:nooge:
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 07:03 PM
Bluntman and Chronic to save the day!
:nooge:
lol. Naw i gotta run to class before TNED gets mad at me. Later, ill be back 2nite!
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 07:05 PM
that's a 4-3 under front. . .
MO, post that old article about the over and under. . .
Here's the first installment of that series, which deals with the defense Denver ran pretty consistently out of their base set. It focuses on Warren Sapp to illustrate the difference between the defenses he played in in Oakland and Tampa.
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/06/guide-to-n-f-l-defenses-part-1/?_r=0
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 07:06 PM
I just dont understand why the NFL cant be like the NBA. NBA learned it wasnt worth it to have their stars sitting on the sidelines.
:confused::confused:
from article:
The answer from NBA HQ: Pretty good, because its anti-drug program goes beyond testing.
If the NBA obtains evidence of a player’s use, possession or distribution of a Prohibited Substance, it can take that evidence to a neutral arbitrator. If the arbitrator finds that the player has used or possessed a Drug of Abuse, or has distributed any Prohibited Substance, he will be dismissed and disqualified from the NBA. If the arbitrator finds that the player has used or possessed Marijuana or a SPED, such a finding is considered a violation under the Program and the player will be subject to the same penalties imposed for a positive drug test.
Silver also repeated to the New York Post last week what he and commissioner David Stern talked about after the Board of Governors meeting in Las Vegas last month: The NBA is looking to implement testing for human growth hormone (HGH), in addition to the urine testing that’s conducted for approximately 160 prohibited substances on its current list. HGH is on that list and NBA players who participate in international and Olympic competition have undergone the blood testing it requires, but that provision is not yet contained in the league’s anti-drug policy.
full article - http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/08/16/failed-drug-tests-arent-only-teeth-in-nbanbpa-anti-drug-program/
Looks like the NBA goes farther than the NFL does
Yes sorry all was the wrong word to use. I meant all by all the ones who do use.
lol
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 07:09 PM
Here's the first installment of that series, which deals with the defense Denver ran pretty consistently out of their base set. It focuses on Warren Sapp to illustrate the difference between the defenses he played in in Oakland and Tampa.
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/06/guide-to-n-f-l-defenses-part-1/?_r=0
I'm tired, and that's gonna make me use my brain. I'm gonna have to check it out later.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 07:10 PM
:confused::confused:
from article:
full article - http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/08/16/failed-drug-tests-arent-only-teeth-in-nbanbpa-anti-drug-program/
Looks like the NBA goes farther than the NFL does
I guess they got tired of players getting busted with trunk loads of dope. :laugh:
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 07:11 PM
..
no offseason tho.
lol
http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/02/76249/400_mphelps_090204_bbedder_83389319.jpg
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 07:46 PM
no offseason tho.
http://www.etonline.com/media/photo/2009/02/76249/400_mphelps_090204_bbedder_83389319.jpg
Once again - :confused::confused::confused:
NEW YORK -- NBA players have agreed to additional drug testing, adding offseason screening for performance-enhancing drugs only.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7328700/nba-labor-players-agree-more-drug-testing-summer
How long do you guys think he's been cheating?
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 07:52 PM
Once again - :confused::confused::confused:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7328700/nba-labor-players-agree-more-drug-testing-summer
BA players have agreed to additional drug testing, adding offseason screening for performance-enhancing drugs only.
that says PED in off season not substance abuse. Now im confused. :confused:
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 07:57 PM
Life Without Miller Now Reality
The Broncos won't have Von Miller for the first six games of the 2013 season and John Fox and John Elway explain how important the next steps will be.
video - http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Life-Without-Miller-Now-Reality/f652ddb8-20ec-471d-a2ed-30c65e8d5543
Elway Reacts to Miller's Six Game Suspension
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Elway-Reacts-to-Millers-Six-Game-Suspension/ca08fe72-fec5-4bc0-9e0c-28a16f178171
Fox Talks Moving On Without Miller
http://www.denverbroncos.com/multimedia/videos/Fox-Talks-Moving-On-Without-Miller/36a4e5a4-2718-4894-8c4c-a0efd0ee2f74
Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2013, 08:23 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- After weeks of public confidence things would be different, after weeks of working linebacker Von Miller with the team’s starting defense in training camp practices, the Broncos and Miller were finally forced to face the stark reality Tuesday that the two-time Pro Bowler will miss the first six games of the regular season.
"I know what I think of Von Miller, what we think of Von Miller as a person," Broncos executive vice president of football operations John Elway said. "And so I get back to the same thing, not trying to put the toothpaste back in the toothpaste bottle. It’s moving on from here and hopefully trying to make sure it doesn’t happen again."
Miller can continue to practice with the team in the preseason and play in Saturday’s preseason game against the Rams and/or the preseason finale Aug. 29 against the Cardinals if the Broncos wish. Coach John Fox said the plan is for Miller to play at least some against St. Louis this weekend. But once the Broncos formally begin preparations for the Sept. 5 regular-season opener against the Ravens, Miller cannot participate in any on-field activities as his suspension begins Aug. 31.
The question now will be how, and where, Miller handles the suspension. Although he cannot participate in practices, he could remain in Denver, sit in on meetings with his teammates and work out at the Broncos' facility, and that is the scenario Broncos officials would prefer.
rest - http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/61185/broncos-miller-in-re-building-mode-now
Magnificent Seven
08-20-2013, 08:37 PM
Free Agents: They are all available.
DT Richard Seymour
DT Ty Warren
DT Albert Haynesworth
LB Mario Haggan
LB Kirk Morrison
ILB Bart Scott
ILB Keith Brooking
LB Takeo Spikes
spikerman
08-20-2013, 08:39 PM
Wouldn't it be great if Quanterus Smith stepped up and showed the ability he showed in college before he got hurt? Let's face it; teams are going to have to pass to keep up with the Broncos. He was drafted for one reason... bring it.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 08:39 PM
Free Agents: They are all available.
DT Richard Seymour
DT Ty Warren
DT Albert Haynesworth
LB Mario Haggan
LB Kirk Morrison
ILB Bart Scott
ILB Keith Brooking
LB Takeo Spikes
No thanks.
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 08:41 PM
No thanks.
you dont want Albert Haynesworth!?
Why not!?
I dont see a problem with Takeo. You think he is too old?
spikerman
08-20-2013, 08:42 PM
What's sad is that if the Broncos resigned Brooking I'm not sure he wouldn't immediately become the best MLB on the roster. Al Wilson where have you gone?
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 08:48 PM
I was wrong about Fox though, he has run a 3-4 as a coordinator...
If you really wanna geek out, dog, here's the 3-4 Giants Playbook from his first year in New York in 97:
http://www.footballxos.com/download/defense/pro-defense/1997-NY-Giants-34-Defense.pdf
dogfish
08-20-2013, 08:49 PM
I thought he lined up as a 5 tech about 65% of the time?
read the article MO linked, it'll explain it a lot better than i can. . .
bottom line, though-- no matter what technique individual guys are playing, it's still a 4-3 as long as you have four down linemen, and our base defense virtually always plays with four down. . . typically with two 'backers behind the line, and one crowding the edge of the LOS-- hence the over and under fronts. . .
Army Bronco
08-20-2013, 08:49 PM
Serious question since we are coming up on the 3rd preseason game; does Von Miller start or does his potential replacement? Does Von get 3rd string reps or any at all?
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 08:50 PM
Serious question since we are coming up on the 3rd preseason game; does Von Miller start or does his potential replacement? Does Von get 3rd string reps or any at all?
Good question.
spikerman
08-20-2013, 08:52 PM
Serious question since we are coming up on the 3rd preseason game; does Von Miller start or does his potential replacement? Does Von get 3rd string reps or any at all?
The Broncos would be extremely foolish to not try to see what the defense looks like without Von Miller. I'd be shocked if he starts against the Cardinals.
Army Bronco
08-20-2013, 08:53 PM
Serious question since we are coming up on the 3rd preseason game; does Von Miller start or does his potential replacement? Does Von get 3rd string reps or any at all?
The Broncos would be extremely foolish to not try to see what the defense looks like without Von Miller. I'd be shocked if he starts against the Cardinals.Me too. Who is his replacement? Phillips?
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 08:54 PM
Me too. Who is his replacement? Phillips?
On third down, we think so. Irving on running downs and short yardage.
We think.
BroncoWave
08-20-2013, 09:00 PM
Jeez, from some of the reactions in this thread you'd think we're going to miss the playoffs now. Yeah it sucks to lose him for 6 games, but we still have a loaded offense and other good players on defense. We'll probably go at least 3-3 in that stretch then we are back at full strength. As long as we get in the playoffs (which we will) that's all that matters. And heck, it might even be better to have to play a road game in the playoffs if it's somewhere like Houston. Will keep Manning out of the cold in January.
dogfish
08-20-2013, 09:02 PM
Serious question since we are coming up on the 3rd preseason game; does Von Miller start or does his potential replacement? Does Von get 3rd string reps or any at all?
heard fox on the radio earlier, he said von will play in the next game-- don't remember if he specifically mentioned starting. . . i'd guess he will-- you don't run a superstar out there with third stringers, typically. . . the organization wants to support and rehabilitate von, not punish and alienate him. . .
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 09:06 PM
heard fox on the radio earlier, he said von will play in the next game-- don't remember if he specifically mentioned starting. . . i'd guess he will-- you don't run a superstar out there with third stringers, typically. . . the organization wants to support and rehabilitate von, not punish and alienate him. . .
a coach who knows whats up.
The Broncos would be extremely foolish to not try to see what the defense looks like without Von Miller. I'd be shocked if he starts against the Cardinals.
No first stringers will be playing against AZ
Jeez, from some of the reactions in this thread you'd think we're going to miss the playoffs now. Yeah it sucks to lose him for 6 games, but we still have a loaded offense and other good players on defense. We'll probably go at least 3-3 in that stretch then we are back at full strength. As long as we get in the playoffs (which we will) that's all that matters. And heck, it might even be better to have to play a road game in the playoffs if it's somewhere like Houston. Will keep Manning out of the cold in January.
The Super Bowl is in New York...
BroncoWave
08-20-2013, 09:07 PM
heard fox on the radio earlier, he said von will play in the next game-- don't remember if he specifically mentioned starting. . . i'd guess he will-- you don't run a superstar out there with third stringers, typically. . . the organization wants to support and rehabilitate von, not punish and alienate him. . .
I don't know if it would be punishing him and alienating him if he doesn't get to start the week 3 preseason game. This is the game in the preseason you gameplan for and simulate a regular season week. I think it would make more sense for the team if we run out the defense we will be starting in week 1.
BroncoWave
08-20-2013, 09:08 PM
The Super Bowl is in New York...
Good point. Getting to the Super Bowl would still be better than losing a zero degree game in the divisional round however.
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 09:12 PM
I want to see a SB in Denver once. Not much colder then NY at that time.
BroncoWave
08-20-2013, 09:13 PM
I want to see a SB in Denver once. Not much colder then NY at that time.
The SB in NY could open the door for it if it goes well. If there is a snowstorm, though, the NFL will probably nix the outdoor super bowl idea though. I like the idea of having it outdoors in a cold city though. It's still a football game, and you have to deal with bad weather in football sometimes.
Good point. Getting to the Super Bowl would still be better than losing a zero degree game in the divisional round however.
Maybe it'll be 50 on Super Bowl Sunday in NYC. Stranger things have happened.
I want the super bowl to be held in the ghetto. I think a lot of the players would be more at home that way.
BroncoWave
08-20-2013, 09:15 PM
Maybe it'll be 50 on Super Bowl Sunday in NYC. Stranger things have happened.
If the Broncos aren't in it, I hope there is a blizzard. I think it would be awesome to see a SB played in that. The media shitstorm about it would be hilarious too.
I want the super bowl to be held in the ghetto.
Sooo....Cinci...
If the Broncos aren't in it, I hope there is a blizzard. I think it would be awesome to see a SB played in that. The media shitstorm about it would be hilarious too.
Agree totally.
BroncoWave
08-20-2013, 09:15 PM
I want the super bowl to be held in the ghetto. I think a lot of the players would be more at home that way.
The Bengals would actually have to get there for that to help them though. :)
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 09:18 PM
I want the super bowl to be held in the ghetto. I think a lot of the players would be more at home that way.
East STL. Right next to the strip clubs
Sooo....Cinci...
Ouch.
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 09:18 PM
The SB in NY could open the door for it if it goes well. If there is a snowstorm, though, the NFL will probably nix the outdoor super bowl idea though. I like the idea of having it outdoors in a cold city though. It's still a football game, and you have to deal with bad weather in football sometimes.
only snowed like 6 times last winter here.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 09:18 PM
I want the super bowl to be held in the ghetto. I think a lot of the players would be more at home that way.
#ConMiller
BroncoWave
08-20-2013, 09:19 PM
This past year's SB in New Orleans could have been in the ghetto if they had moved the game a few blocks away. The Superdome is pretty close to Martin Luther King Jr Blvd.
The Bengals would actually have to get there for that to help them though. :)
Is Peyton Manning still your quarterback? Oh, he is? Yeah, we'll see ya there. :D
Army Bronco
08-20-2013, 09:28 PM
I want the super bowl to be held in the ghetto. I think a lot of the players would be more at home that way.The Raiders definitely would.
Dzone
08-20-2013, 10:00 PM
3315
Jeez, from some of the reactions in this thread you'd think we're going to miss the playoffs now. Yeah it sucks to lose him for 6 games, but we still have a loaded offense and other good players on defense. We'll probably go at least 3-3 in that stretch then we are back at full strength. As long as we get in the playoffs (which we will) that's all that matters. And heck, it might even be better to have to play a road game in the playoffs if it's somewhere like Houston. Will keep Manning out of the cold in January.
Vegas isn't swayed by any of this. They still squarely have the Broncos as the SB co-favorites at 6:1 (and 2:1 to win the AFC).
It'll be fine. It's going to suck, but it'll be fine. Manning's done more with much less, and Von will be back soon enough.
TXBRONC
08-21-2013, 06:42 AM
I don't know if it would be punishing him and alienating him if he doesn't get to start the week 3 preseason game. This is the game in the preseason you gameplan for and simulate a regular season week. I think it would make more sense for the team if we run out the defense we will be starting in week 1.
Most players would see it as punishment.
The NFL is saying the spilled test is violation No. 2 and the diluted test is violation No. 3.
Yes, and this seems like a stretch. Obviously, that was the complications that the NFLPA source referred to and where the negotiation apparently game in. They must have settled on less than the most severe punishment (if they truly treated it as two failed tests), but more than if he had had the diluted/failed test without what they must believe was intentionally spilling the sample.
BroncoWave
08-21-2013, 07:48 AM
Most players would see it as punishment.
Well then those players would need to step back and realize what is best for the team. I don't really see where it helps the Broncos get ready for week 1 to have Miller starting the 3rd preseason game. We need to have our starting D without Von get some cohesion together.
Ok, I have to go to work, so will have to get back to this later, but in reading through the substance abuse policy, it appears that the six game suspension is a prescribed punishment when a player fails to complete stage 1 and then has a second failure.
From what I'm reading, you basically start "fresh" 24 months after you wind up in stage 2. Since he didn't get banishment, which is a minimum of one year (what will happen if he has another failed test in the next 24 months), then that means he must have been deemed to have completed stage 2 and start fresh.
The best I can tell, the league counted the spilled test as admittance into stage 1 of the program, and then the subsequent diluted test as a failed test in stage 2.
Where Von seems to really have screwed the pooch, is by having the spilled sample and diluted sample, he is now not only given the six game suspension, but in my reading, is now automatically moved to stage III for the rest of his career (where if he had only one failure in stage II, after 24 months he would start fresh).
The following moves him to stage III for remainder of his NFL career.
one Positive Test and one instance of a failure to
comply with his Treatment Plan or cooperate with
testing, treatment, evaluation or other requirements
imposed on him by this Policy while in Stage Two.
TXBRONC
08-21-2013, 08:22 AM
Well then those players would need to step back and realize what is best for the team. I don't really see where it helps the Broncos get ready for week 1 to have Miller starting the 3rd preseason game. We need to have our starting D without Von get some cohesion together.
Those are two separate issues. I can see where a player would see it as further punishment but his own actions brought this on. As far as playing in a preseason it doesn't matter if realize what's best interest of team it's Elway and Fox that will make that decision.
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 08:23 AM
I think Von got a little screwed here.
I think Von got a little screwed here.
How did he get screwed? He is lucky he didn't get 8 or 16 and he needs to quit talking because he just makes himself sound like a child.
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 09:01 AM
How did he get screwed? He is lucky he didn't get 8 or 16 and he needs to quit talking because he just makes himself sound like a child.
I just feel like the whole two tests in one day snafu shouldn't count as two strikes. Seems a little ridiculous to me.
I just feel like the whole two tests in one day snafu shouldn't count as two strikes. Seems a little ridiculous to me.
Except when you consider that he was obviously trying to get around taking the test. These sorts of things don't ever happen to people who are clean. He knew he was going to fail and he did everything possible to avoid it. Hard to have any sympathy for him.
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 09:26 AM
Except when you consider that he was obviously trying to get around taking the test. These sorts of things don't ever happen to people who are clean. He knew he was going to fail and he did everything possible to avoid it. Hard to have any sympathy for him.
I wouldn't say I have a lot of sympathy for him, just not sure it's entirely fair to jump him from Stage 1 to Stage 3 because of one incident.
I think the compromise of six games is fair, but they tried to railroad him.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-21-2013, 09:26 AM
Except when you consider that he was obviously trying to get around taking the test. These sorts of things don't ever happen to people who are clean. He knew he was going to fail and he did everything possible to avoid it. Hard to have any sympathy for him.
He probably would have only gotten 4 games if he would have just failed the test he "oops, I dropped it".
Except when you consider that he was obviously trying to get around taking the test. These sorts of things don't ever happen to people who are clean. He knew he was going to fail and he did everything possible to avoid it. Hard to have any sympathy for him.
That does seem like the most likely scenario. He knew he was going to fail, and was working hard to interfere.
I wouldn't say I have a lot of sympathy for him, just not sure it's entirely fair to jump him from Stage 1 to Stage 3 because of one incident.
I think the compromise of six games is fair, but they tried to railroad him.
But I completely understand the league's position. In their view tampering with a drug test is worse than failing a drug test because they have to preserve the integrity of the system. And it's not like he was a first time offender either. He is really lucky to only get 6 in my opinion.
Most players would see it as punishment.
Uhhhh who cares....someone needs the playing time in order to take over his spot for 6 weeks since HE put the team in the situation. View it however ya want....Broncos above players. Sorry Von, YOU did this!
That does seem like the most likely scenario. He knew he was going to fail, and was working hard to interfere.
I don't know what was going on in his head, he could have honestly made a mistake with the spill or intentional. Testers and leagues don't try to interpret, they just go by the rules. Rule is...you spill it, you were trying to cover something up. Mistake or not, he gets to pay the piper and so do the Broncos.
I want to see a SB in Denver once. Not much colder then NY at that time.
After that playoff game last season, never going to happen without a dome.
This past year's SB in New Orleans could have been in the ghetto if they had moved the game a few blocks away. The Superdome is pretty close to Martin Luther King Jr Blvd.
We have a Martin Luther King Jr Blvd as well....not the best neighborhood either.
heard fox on the radio earlier, he said von will play in the next game-- don't remember if he specifically mentioned starting. . . i'd guess he will-- you don't run a superstar out there with third stringers, typically. . . the organization wants to support and rehabilitate von, not punish and alienate him. . .
I get that, but that 2nd and 3rd guy behind him are the starters for the season opener and 5 games after that. They need it more than Von does. It would be silly to let Von start and let the other guys go against 2nd and 3rds when they will be starting against the 1s.
BroncoWave
08-21-2013, 09:42 AM
I get that, but that 2nd and 3rd guy behind him are the starters for the season opener and 5 games after that. They need it more than Von does. It would be silly to let Von start and let the other guys go against 2nd and 3rds when they will be starting against the 1s.
Completely agree. I trust Fox's judgement, but I think it would be a mistake to start Von in the 3rd preseason game. Gotta prepare to play without him.
NightTrainLayne
08-21-2013, 09:43 AM
The NFL is saying the spilled test is violation No. 2 and the diluted test is violation No. 3.
No.
Per all the talk on Sirius/XM NFL channel, from multiple talking heads, (from Pat Kirwin, Tim Ryan, Rich Gannon, Mike Florio etc.) the NFL can and will impose a greater punishment if they think that the player somehow tried to skirt the rules and/or submit a false testing sample.
The NFL is adding games to his suspension (they were pushing for much more than 6 based on Florio. . . like a year), because they feel that he intentionally tried to alter the sample by spilling it, and then submitting the diluted sample.
Von would have been better off to submit a positive sample, than to spill his sample and lead to a greater punishment.
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 09:45 AM
We have a Martin Luther King Jr Blvd as well....not the best neighborhood either.
Off topic: It's sad that the crime-stricken areas of several major cities in this country are bisected by a road named after MLK.
L.A. is one, as well.
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 09:47 AM
No.
Per all the talk on Sirius/XM NFL channel, from multiple talking heads, (from Pat Kirwin, Tim Ryan, Rich Gannon, Mike Florio etc.) the NFL can and will impose a greater punishment if they think that the player somehow tried to skirt the rules and/or submit a false testing sample.
The NFL is adding games to his suspension (they were pushing for much more than 6 based on Florio. . . like a year), because they feel that he intentionally tried to alter the sample by spilling it, and then submitting the diluted sample.
Von would have been better off to submit a positive sample, than to spill his sample and lead to a greater punishment.
So, is he now in Stage 2 or Stage 3 of the program?
Because the way I interpreted the articles yesterday is that they jumped him two stages for the one incident, tried to suspend him for a year, and then settled on 6.
NightTrainLayne
08-21-2013, 09:51 AM
So, is he now in Stage 2 or Stage 3 of the program?
Because the way I interpreted the articles yesterday is that they jumped him two stages for the one incident, tried to suspend him for a year, and then settled on 6.
I don't know what stage he is in, that is a good question. But everyone seemed to be in agreement that the jump above the "normal" 4 game suspension was due to trying to subvert the testing process, not a matter of counting the spilled specimen and the diluted sample each as violations.
TXBRONC
08-21-2013, 09:59 AM
I think Von got a little screwed here.
I agree. His actions brought it on but with snafu as you put it's kind of like the NFL wanted kill a fly with a sledge hammer. That's kind of how I see it.
Off topic: It's sad that the crime-stricken areas of several major cities in this country are bisected by a road named after MLK.
L.A. is one, as well.
I was thinking the same thing, but wasn't sure this was thread to put it in. Sad.
The additional 2 games is for trying to fool the system by the spill. The diluted specimen is the failed test, the spill is trying to skirt the rules.
TXBRONC
08-21-2013, 10:05 AM
Uhhhh who cares....someone needs the playing time in order to take over his spot for 6 weeks since HE put the team in the situation. View it however ya want....Broncos above players. Sorry Von, YOU did this!
I'm just saying I think can understand where why might think that but bottom line it doesn't matter because he made the poor choices to be begin with.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2013, 10:14 AM
from article:
The league wanted a longer penalty for the third-year linebacker, but the sides agreed to less than half the season.
The NFL has two drug policies -- one that covers use of performance-enhancing substances and the "Policy and Program for Substances of Abuse" that applied to Miller's case.
There are ways to violate the drug policy without necessarily testing positive. They include missing a test, refusing to test, tampering with tests or giving a diluted urine sample.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9586206/von-miller-denver-broncos-serve-6-game-suspension
PatriotsGuy
08-21-2013, 10:27 AM
I don't know what stage he is in, that is a good question. But everyone seemed to be in agreement that the jump above the "normal" 4 game suspension was due to trying to subvert the testing process, not a matter of counting the spilled specimen and the diluted sample each as violations.
He's in 3
EDIT:
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 1h
Now that Von Miller is in stage 3 of the drug program (next violation: 1 year), he'll remain in it for his entire career, per the policy.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-21-2013, 10:30 AM
He's in 3
EDIT:
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 1h
Now that Von Miller is in stage 3 of the drug program (next violation: 1 year), he'll remain in it for his entire career, per the policy.
He's gonna have to stay squeaky clean. I imagine his next contract will still be pretty big, but it will have drug violation clauses to protect whoever signs him.
TimHippo
08-21-2013, 10:45 AM
He's gonna have to stay squeaky clean. I imagine his next contract will still be pretty big, but it will have drug violation clauses to protect whoever signs him.
This is why Buddy Ryan cut Cris Carter. Carter had failed his test and was at stage 3, and Buddy felt he couldn't jeopardize the team and his teammates by having his starting wide receiver fail another test and disappear sometime during the season letting everyone down. Also, Ryan knew that Cris Carter needed help.
Miller is now in a situation where he could disappear at any minute during the seasons playoff run with another failed test which would have a devastating effect on the defense and the team. The teams on pins and needles based on Von's addiction. (which has already cost him millions in endorsements and 2 million of his signing bonus).
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/21/millers-bonus-forfeiture-is-automatic-making-the-total-cost-of-his-suspension-more-than-2-million/
I think from here on out you have to proceed as if he is not on the team and trade for or develop other LBs as permanent starters. Anything you get out of Von is a bonus but he can't be counted on.
He's in 3
EDIT:
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 1h
Now that Von Miller is in stage 3 of the drug program (next violation: 1 year), he'll remain in it for his entire career, per the policy.
Pags, until you change your avatar, I'm going to confuse you with some ******* Pansy fan. Please, for the love of humanity, go back to a Bief avy!!!
Nomad
08-21-2013, 10:57 AM
This is why Buddy Ryan cut Cris Carter. Carter had failed his test and was at stage 3, and Buddy felt he couldn't jeopardize the team and his teammates by having his starting wide receiver fail another test and disappear sometime during the season letting everyone down. Also, Ryan knew that Cris Carter needed help.
Miller is now in a situation where he could disappear at any minute during the seasons playoff run with another failed test which would have a devastating effect on the defense and the team. The teams on pins and needles based on Von's addiction. (which has already cost him millions in endorsements and 2 million of his signing bonus).
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/21/millers-bonus-forfeiture-is-automatic-making-the-total-cost-of-his-suspension-more-than-2-million/
I think from here on out you have to proceed as if he is not on the team and trade for or develop other LBs as permanent starters. Anything you get out of Von is a bonus but he can't be counted on.
That puts a damper on things. BTW, I didn't know that about Cris Carter.
But I completely understand the league's position. In their view tampering with a drug test is worse than failing a drug test because they have to preserve the integrity of the system. And it's not like he was a first time offender either. He is really lucky to only get 6 in my opinion.
Actually, reading the policy, they don't consider tampering worse in terms of penalties.
Contrary to what I said earlier, he must have still been in stage II. Because it is very unlikely that he could have been in phase I after two years (typically 90 days, but up to 6 months if medical director feels it's necessary, and only beyond 6 months in extraordinary cases). If you are in stage II and have a failed/missed test, then you get a four game suspension. If you have to failed tests while in stage II, then you get a six game suspension, which is what Von got.
Then, you are moved to stage two, which presumably Von is now in and his next strike will be MINIMUM one year banishment, if while in stage II, you have two failed tests, two failures to comply (spilling must have counted as that) or one of each. In this case, unless he had a different failed test weeks or months earlier, it appears they must be treating the spilled urine and diluted sample later in the day as two distinct failures.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, without any notice a player will be
automatically and immediately advanced to Stage Three if while in
Stage Two he has any of the following:
(1) two Positive Tests; or
(2) two instances in which he fails to cooperate with
testing, treatment, evaluation or other requirements
imposed on him by this Policy or to comply with his
Treatment Plan; or
(3) one Positive Test and one instance of a failure to
comply with his Treatment Plan or cooperate with
testing, treatment, evaluation or other requirements
imposed on him by this Policy while in Stage Two.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2013, 11:06 AM
Yesterday, both Elway and Fox stated the first important thing is to get Von help. Hopefully, Von agrees with that, and takes it seriously.
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 11:08 AM
He's in 3
EDIT:
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 1h
Now that Von Miller is in stage 3 of the drug program (next violation: 1 year), he'll remain in it for his entire career, per the policy.
Exactly. They jumped him two stages for one incident.
To me, that's not right.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2013, 11:12 AM
I am confused as to how, before this incident, Von was already in stage 2. The first incident in 2011, would have put him in stage 1. How did he get to stage 2 - he would have had to fail the test again, and we all know, with the press, etc., we would have heard about that, and would he not have been suspended, before this suspension? I suspect this latest incident jumped him from stage 1 to stage 3.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2013, 11:14 AM
Exactly. They jumped him two stages for one incident.
To me, that's not right.
Vic talked about this last night, and he feels that the NFL used Von as an example.
Northman
08-21-2013, 11:18 AM
Yea, time for Von to step up and clean up his act.
Northman
08-21-2013, 11:21 AM
Vic talked about this last night, and he feels that the NFL used Von as an example.
Even if they did, i have no problem with that. They need to be stricker with this stuff anyway. Too much time and money is poured into these guys to have them piss it all away on drug use (pun intended).
Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2013, 12:12 PM
Even if they did, i have no problem with that. They need to be stricker with this stuff anyway. Too much time and money is poured into these guys to have them piss it all away on drug use (pun intended).
I agree - what Vic stated was in response to how the suspension went from 4 to 6 games, in his opinion
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 12:35 PM
I agree - what Vic stated was in response to how the suspension went from 4 to 6 games, in his opinion
I think people need to get the number 4 out of their mind on this. I think it's pretty clear that a four game suspension was never on the table. The suspension on the table going into the appeal (or NFLPA negotiations) was a year.
I think Denver media assumed it was going to be a four game suspension because it was only his second violation, which it was.
Exactly. They jumped him two stages for one incident.
To me, that's not right.
What is not fair about it? He failed one drug test and cheated another. Jimminy Christmas.
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 12:50 PM
What is not fair about it? He failed one drug test and cheated another. Jimminy Christmas.
In 2011 he failed a test. Enter Stage 1.
In 2013 he cheated a test. Enter Stage 3?
Why did he not get the opportunity like every other player in the drug program to go to Stage 2 of the program? Why was he jumped a stage?
In 2011 he failed a test. Enter Stage 1.
In 2013 he cheated a test. Enter Stage 3?
Why did he not get the opportunity like every other player in the drug program to go to Stage 2 of the program? Why was he jumped a stage?
Because he cheated, MO.
Chef Zambini
08-21-2013, 12:52 PM
if von does not get a full time attendant, like hamilton or oliver miller he will not stay on the wagon during those 6 weeks and he will be lost forever.
I hope JFE and the broncos recognise this reality.
Chef Zambini
08-21-2013, 12:54 PM
In 2011 he failed a test. Enter Stage 1.
In 2013 he cheated a test. Enter Stage 3?
Why did he not get the opportunity like every other player in the drug program to go to Stage 2 of the program? Why was he jumped a stage?
maybe the bench warrent was considered another vilation of his program?
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 12:57 PM
Actually, reading the policy, they don't consider tampering worse in terms of penalties.
Contrary to what I said earlier, he must have still been in stage II. Because it is very unlikely that he could have been in phase I after two years (typically 90 days, but up to 6 months if medical director feels it's necessary, and only beyond 6 months in extraordinary cases). If you are in stage II and have a failed/missed test, then you get a four game suspension. If you have to failed tests while in stage II, then you get a six game suspension, which is what Von got.
Then, you are moved to stage two, which presumably Von is now in and his next strike will be MINIMUM one year banishment, if while in stage II, you have two failed tests, two failures to comply (spilling must have counted as that) or one of each. In this case, unless he had a different failed test weeks or months earlier, it appears they must be treating the spilled urine and diluted sample later in the day as two distinct failures.
Because he cheated, MO.
Then the NFL violated the collective bargaining agreement to make an example of Miller.
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 12:57 PM
maybe the bench warrent was considered another vilation of his program?
It was not. Period.
Chef Zambini
08-21-2013, 01:11 PM
In Stage 2, players are subject to unannounced testing up to 10 times a month. A positive test while in Stage 2 or failure to comply with the treatment program results in a fine equal to four game checks and a four-game suspension.
Six-game suspensions are also possible in Stage 2.
Players can appeal the fine and suspension within five business days of receiving the "notice of discipline."
Players remain in Stage 2 for two full seasons or 24 consecutive months, whichever is shorter.
Players move to Stage 3 if they have two positive tests when in Stage 2 or one positive test to go with one instance when the player failed to comply with the program.
NightTrainLayne
08-21-2013, 01:13 PM
In 2011 he failed a test. Enter Stage 1.
In 2013 he cheated a test. Enter Stage 3?
Why did he not get the opportunity like every other player in the drug program to go to Stage 2 of the program? Why was he jumped a stage?
He lost that "opportunity" (lol, that's a funny way to put it MO), when he tried to cheat the system.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2013, 01:13 PM
from article:
Rapoport later added that Miller now is in Stage 3 of the league's program and policy for substances of abuse and his next violation carries a minimum one-year suspension, according to a person informed of the player's situation. Per the policy, Miller will stay in Stage 3 for the rest of his career.
AND
NFL.com's Albert Breer reported Monday, according to two sources, that a diluted sample caused Miller's most recent violation of the NFL's substance-abuse policy. The Broncos also could face financial penalties for repeated offenses. Breer is reporting that the NFL will have to decide whether or not the previous suspensions and penalties to team executives Tom Heckert and Matt Russell will be applied to the league's salary remittance policy.
full article - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000232174/article/von-miller-suspended-six-games-for-policy-violation
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 01:18 PM
He lost that "opportunity" (lol, that's a funny way to put it MO), when he tried to cheat the system.
I guess so.
I wonder why that didn't happen to D.J. Williams?
TimHippo
08-21-2013, 01:20 PM
In 2011 he failed a test. Enter Stage 1.
In 2013 he cheated a test. Enter Stage 3?
Why did he not get the opportunity like every other player in the drug program to go to Stage 2 of the program? Why was he jumped a stage?
Unannounced testing only starts at Stage 2. So I'm assuming that he was already in Stage 2 since he was trying to cheat the test by spilling the urine and then diluting the 2nd sample and those are last ditch desperate measures of someone who was caught by surprise by an unannounced test.
It's highly likely that Miller was already in Stage 2 since Stage 1 usually only runs from 90 days to 6 months. He was in Stage 1 his rookie year and it's been at least 2 years since he was in Stage 1.
Time Limitation:
"Players will remain in Stage One for a period not to exceed 90 days; provided, however, that the
Medical Director, in verbal consultation with the Medical Advisor, may extend the total time a player is in Stage One up to six months. If, due to unusual and compelling circumstances, the Medical Director determines that a period in excess of six months is required, the six
month period may be extended with the concurrence of the Medical Advisor."
Advancement from Stage 1 to Stage 2:
"A player will advance from Stage One to Stage Two after notification by the Medical Director or expiration of the Stage One time limitations."
Here's the NFL drug policy. Go to page 13 for explanation of the Stages.
https://www.nflplayers.com/about-us/history/Player-Policies/Drug-Policy/
Northman
08-21-2013, 01:25 PM
from article:
AND
full article - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000232174/article/von-miller-suspended-six-games-for-policy-violation
Wonderful......
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 01:28 PM
Unannounced testing only starts at Stage 2. So I'm assuming that he was already in Stage 2 since he was trying to cheat the test by spilling the urine and then diluting the 2nd sample and those are last ditch desperate measures of someone who was caught by surprise by an unannounced test.
It's highly likely that Miller was already in Stage 2 since Stage 1 usually only runs from 90 days to 6 months. He was in Stage 1 his rookie year and it's been at least 2 years since he was in Stage 1.
Time Limitation:
"Players will remain in Stage One for a period not to exceed 90 days; provided, however, that the
Medical Director, in verbal consultation with the Medical Advisor, may extend the total time a player is in Stage One up to six months. If, due to unusual and compelling circumstances, the Medical Director determines that a period in excess of six months is required, the six
month period may be extended with the concurrence of the Medical Advisor."
Advancement from Stage 1 to Stage 2:
"A player will advance from Stage One to Stage Two after notification by the Medical Director or expiration of the Stage One time limitations."
Here's the NFL drug policy. Go to page 13 for explanation of the Stages.
https://www.nflplayers.com/about-us/history/Player-Policies/Drug-Policy/
So they progress you automatically to Stage 2. While that doesn't make a ton of common sense ("Here, stay clean for 90 days and then, as your reward, we'll get stricter on our testing"), I guess I understand.
I guess Breer's tweet this morning (Posted by PAGs) was then inaccurate.
NightTrainLayne
08-21-2013, 01:29 PM
I guess so.
I wonder why that didn't happen to D.J. Williams?
It did, didn't it? DJ was originally suspended for 6 games as well.
But that was under the PED policy, which is a different policy than the substances of abuse policy.
NightTrainLayne
08-21-2013, 01:31 PM
I guess so.
I wonder why that didn't happen to D.J. Williams?
Green received a four-game suspension for a first-time positive test. A league source said Williams and McBean each received two additional games to their suspensions because of inconsistencies on the players' part during the collection of the urine samples. Williams said the league informed him he had submitted "a nonhuman sample."
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_20143941/broncos-d-j-williams-mcbean-green-suspended-peds
Looks like DJ got "two additional games" due to "inconsistencies on the players' part during the collection of the urine samples."
MOtorboat
08-21-2013, 01:32 PM
It did, didn't it? DJ was originally suspended for 6 games as well.
But that was under the PED policy, which is a different policy than the substances of abuse policy.
Was the whizinator incident PEDs or recreational drugs?
DJ was suspended under the PED policy? I thought it was related to his multiple DUIs?
Oh wait, he was the one that kicked the bottle into a different room.
TimHippo
08-21-2013, 01:35 PM
So they progress you automatically to Stage 2. While that doesn't make a ton of common sense ("Here, stay clean for 90 days and then, as your reward, we'll get stricter on our testing"), I guess I understand.
I guess Breer's tweet this morning (Posted by PAGs) was then inaccurate.
It's up to the Medical Director. The Medical Director can release you from the Stage 1 Program or send you to Stage 2. If the Medical Director does nothing then you are sent to Stage 2 upon expiration of the Stage 1 time limitations. The Medical Directors evaluation on whether to release you from Stage 1 and the drug program completely is based on player's compliance to the drug program and following the treatment plan.
NightTrainLayne
08-21-2013, 01:38 PM
It's up to the Medical Director. The Medical Director can release you from the Stage 1 Program or send you to Stage 2. If the Medical Director does nothing then you are sent to Stage 2 upon expiration of the Stage 1 time limitations. The Medical Directors evaluation on whether to release you from Stage 1 and the drug program completely is based on player's compliance to the drug program and following the treatment plan.
I think it is very possible that Von tested positive again, and it didn't leak out, moving him to stage 2.
The NFL can't release their side of the argument, and only pieces leak out. Reading between the lines, there almost has to be something like this going on.
TimHippo
08-21-2013, 01:48 PM
I think it is very possible that Von tested positive again, and it didn't leak out, moving him to stage 2.
The NFL can't release their side of the argument, and only pieces leak out. Reading between the lines, there almost has to be something like this going on.
People talk about transparency but the NFL has been quite good with hiding Von's drug problem till now. I didn't even know he was in the drug program till the last couple months and he's been in it since 2011.
I think the NFL protected him as much as they could since he was marquee player but he continued to blow his chances till the NFL just decided they were fed up with him.
This Texas guy was saying the following. Sounds like Von had us all fooled:
"When Mike Sherman got there he tried to stop it. Von was going to transfer to Alabama of all places. College athletics is BIG TIME, especially in Texas, and Sherman lost the battle. It was the beginning of his end at A&M. He lost Alumni support. It was an ugly scene. Von knew that he could get away with anything and not be held accountable. His lofty draft selection served to validate his behavior. So, once in the NFL, he continued the same behavior and he got caught again, only this time he is going to have to pay for his mistakes. IMO, it's a very small price when one considers how long he has gotten away with it. Will it be enough? Time will tell. His teammates and coaches need to jumop his dumb ass and let him know how much he let everyone down. Spare no feelings with this one. You're right - time to FINALLY grow up Von."
Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2013, 01:55 PM
In 2011 he failed a test. Enter Stage 1.
In 2013 he cheated a test. Enter Stage 3?
Why did he not get the opportunity like every other player in the drug program to go to Stage 2 of the program? Why was he jumped a stage?
All I can figure that was before this happened, he was in Stage 1 - then comes the test - it was determined that because Von spilled the test, it would have tested positive - Stage 2, and Von then drank many fluids which diluted the next test on the same day - Stage 3. So, their assumption that it would have tested positive, plus the diluted test is against the policies and procedures associated this this, jumped him from Stage 1 to Stage 3. That is what Vic was getting at last night, that he feels they were using Von as an example.
powderaddict
08-21-2013, 02:15 PM
DJ was suspended under the PED policy? I thought it was related to his multiple DUIs?
He had 2 suspensions, one for PEDs and another for DUIs.
After that playoff game last season, never going to happen without a dome.
Good point. I know I'm an Arkansas boy, but that was the coldest four hours of my life.
In 2011 he failed a test. Enter Stage 1.
In 2013 he cheated a test. Enter Stage 3?
Why did he not get the opportunity like every other player in the drug program to go to Stage 2 of the program? Why was he jumped a stage?
I am confused as to how, before this incident, Von was already in stage 2. The first incident in 2011, would have put him in stage 1. How did he get to stage 2 - he would have had to fail the test again, and we all know, with the press, etc., we would have heard about that, and would he not have been suspended, before this suspension? I suspect this latest incident jumped him from stage 1 to stage 3.
See the following from the drug policy.
However, a player who is referred
to Stage One by reason of a Positive Test and is
deemed by the Medical Director to require specific
clinical intervention and/or treatment, will be
advanced to Stage Two upon notification to the
player by the Medical Director.
If the player enters stage I as a result of a test failure (you can enter for other reasons, such as behavior, voluntary, etc.), then it's at the medical director discretion whether the player is moved to stage II or leaves the program after the 90 days to 6 months of state I. Since Von reportedly tested positive for both weed and amphetamines, the medical director probably decided he needed to be in stage II, and therefore had to pass tests and comply with therapy and such for 24 months.
I think people need to get the number 4 out of their mind on this. I think it's pretty clear that a four game suspension was never on the table. The suspension on the table going into the appeal (or NFLPA negotiations) was a year.
I think Denver media assumed it was going to be a four game suspension because it was only his second violation, which it was.
Based on everything else we've heard to date that has been completely false or inaccurate, I don't think we can assume that the six games was negotiated down. The policy pretty clearly states that if he was in stage II that two failed tests, two attempts to avoid a test, or one of each would both move him to stage III and result in a six game suspension.
So they progress you automatically to Stage 2. While that doesn't make a ton of common sense ("Here, stay clean for 90 days and then, as your reward, we'll get stricter on our testing"), I guess I understand.
I guess Breer's tweet this morning (Posted by PAGs) was then inaccurate.
Basically, yes, if you entered stage I via a failed drug test vs. other means of entry (voluntary, DUI for alcohol or other DUI when a drug test wasn't done, etc.). Something like a DUI for alcohol likely would not lead to stage II if the player appeared to be complying with treatment plans, etc.
Nomad
09-08-2013, 03:08 PM
BRONCOS are going after Von's signing bonus and Miller is in NY fighting it. Will this cause a distrust between them and future of Von and the BRONCOS or is this business as usual?
Northman
09-08-2013, 03:17 PM
If Von has a clause where character issues can mean a loss of money than the Broncos are in their right too try and get it back. But, if Von gets angry he just look in the mirror because it falls on him. If he cant handle it, hit the road jack.
silkamilkamonico
09-08-2013, 03:17 PM
BRONCOS are going after Von's signing bonus and Miller is in NY fighting it. Will this cause a distrust between them and future of Von and the BRONCOS or is this business as usual?
Shouldn't be any issues. Every team in the NFL would have done the same.
silkamilkamonico
09-08-2013, 03:19 PM
If Von has a clause where character issues can mean a loss of money than the Broncos are in their right too try and get it back. But, if Von gets angry he just look in the mirror because it falls on him. If he cant handle it, hit the road jack.
Agreed.
You got 6 game suspension, and you didn't even fail a drug test that directly lead to your suspension. Be accountable and responsible.
LTC Pain
09-08-2013, 03:22 PM
BRONCOS are going after Von's signing bonus and Miller is in NY fighting it. Will this cause a distrust between them and future of Von and the BRONCOS or is this business as usual?
Link please!
silkamilkamonico
09-08-2013, 03:23 PM
Link please!
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/555065-Bonus-Contract-issue-looming-between-Von-Miller-and-Broncos
Nomad
09-08-2013, 03:23 PM
Link please!
I'm on my phone but its in PFT. Sorry, I should of mentioned where I read this news.
LTC Pain
09-08-2013, 03:27 PM
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/555065-Bonus-Contract-issue-looming-between-Von-Miller-and-Broncos
Found it, thanks Silk.
DenBronx
09-12-2013, 06:30 PM
If Von has a clause where character issues can mean a loss of money than the Broncos are in their right too try and get it back. But, if Von gets angry he just look in the mirror because it falls on him. If he cant handle it, hit the road jack.
If I were Von I wouldnt even drive the rest of this year unless it was local and never the days I drink. I really hope this guy stays out of trouble because we really need him this year. Von and Phillips is going to create so many problems for passing QBs and even mobile QBs who break out of the pocket.
His latest traffic violations have not hurt him but no one can deny he has had a pattern of stupid choices.
Fox and his latest comments let me know the Broncos are also disturbed, not just us fans.
Simple Jaded
09-12-2013, 06:50 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000243343/article/von-miller-paid-for-his-speeding-ticket-last-year-in-california
Would have preferred to post this in appropriate thread.
Dzone
09-12-2013, 07:39 PM
Molly. So Von tested positive for this? Sounds like Molly is all the rage amongst people his age. Maybe this is why he seems to be getting stupider, maybe Molly is causing brain damage.
http://omg.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/lady-gaga-talks-molly-club-drug-taking-over-223604047.html
Chef Zambini
09-12-2013, 08:12 PM
thanks for posting.
MOtorboat
09-12-2013, 08:14 PM
thanks for posting.
Now, you were saying?
BroncoWave
09-12-2013, 08:16 PM
I wonder if Zam can get a third Von thread locked tonight. That would have to be a forum record. :lol:
DenBronx
09-12-2013, 08:27 PM
I wonder if Zam can get a third Von thread locked tonight. That would have to be a forum record. :lol:
I'm not sure about that. There are a few members who are no longer here that might already hold the title of 3 or more threads locked in one day.
HotCarl I think holds the record for threads sent to the black hole. :lol:
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