View Full Version : Urine Sample Irregularities behind Von Miller's Pending Suspension
UnderArmour
08-19-2013, 07:52 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/19/spilled-urine-diluted-urine-led-to-von-miller-mess/
Adam Schefter of ESPN reported that when Miller went to give a urine sample to the drug tester, it was spilled. When Miller then came back later to give the drug tester another urine sample, that sample was found to be diluted.
Are you kidding me? First DJ and McBean, now a year later Miller? Can't the NFL get its act together with its testers in the area?
Miller is in enough shit of his own. He's shooting himself in the foot over and over
I would like to ask Shake if I am allowed to make a comment in this thread. I am not asking any other Mod for permission.
Where are you Shake?
MOtorboat
08-19-2013, 08:08 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/19/spilled-urine-diluted-urine-led-to-von-miller-mess/
Are you kidding me? First DJ and McBean, now a year later Miller? Can't the NFL get its act together with its testers in the area?
The actual Schefter report said Miller spilled the sample himself. Couldn't go again, went through practice and offered up a diluted sample after practice.
That detail is kind of important.
Denver Native (Carol)
08-19-2013, 08:10 PM
In the test that triggered the suspension, multiple sources say Miller was flagged for a "diluted sample." It happened after Miller was asked to provide a test before an offseason workout/practice and the sample was spilled, by Miller, before it was given to the collector. Miller was then asked at that time to provide another sample and he could not.
He then participated in the workout, drinking fluids throughout the activity. Miller then provided a sample that was used in the test following the workout.
At the meeting with NFLPA officials Thursday in Washington, D.C., multiple sources say discussions were held over whether to challenge Miller's positive test in 2011, for marijuana and amphetamines, as part of his appeal. The flagged samples came following the NFL lockout that kept players away from team facilities until training camp opened. Miller has also argued prescribed medication provided the positive result for amphetamines.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9581214/von-miller-denver-broncos-likely-get-6-game-ban
Nomad
08-19-2013, 08:12 PM
The actual Schefter report said Miller spilled the sample himself. Couldn't go again, went through practice and offered up a diluted sample after practice.
That detail is kind of important.
Last few times I went to give urine samples, the tester had me place the cup on a table that she was sitting at, then she proceeded to putting the urine into separate tubes. I guess I don't recall ever exchanging the cup between hands of myself and the tester
ShaneFalco
08-19-2013, 08:16 PM
Hilarious, Water is the culprit here! i did the same thing when i got tested once, Drank a shit ton of water and diluted the sample. Nothing people can do about it, apparently the draconian NFL Officials think its enough for a 6 game suspension. I heard they were pushing for 1 year at first. NFL makes me more PISSED then Von ever could. Hoho.
I always drank a shitload of cranberry juice to dilute your drug piss.
ShaneFalco
08-19-2013, 08:23 PM
Well if you drink a bunch of water over like a 4 hour period, I mean LOTS, it will basically flush your entire system and dilute the sample. Commonly used for avoiding testing postive for marijuana.
Doesnt really clasify as a failed test always, but again apparentlly in the NFL it does.
MOtorboat
08-19-2013, 08:25 PM
Well if you drink a bunch of water over like a 4 hour period, I mean LOTS, it will basically flush your entire system and dilute the sample.
Which still doesn't make you innocent.
Which still doesn't make you innocent.
No, it makes Von guilty.
MOtorboat
08-19-2013, 08:30 PM
No, it makes Von guilty.
In the eyes of the NFL, yup.
CrazyHorse
08-19-2013, 08:35 PM
They should just do blood tests. They'll have to for HGH anyway.
ShaneFalco
08-19-2013, 08:36 PM
They should just do blood tests. They'll have to for HGH anyway.
What if he is an trypanophobiac?
DenBronx
08-19-2013, 08:40 PM
Which still doesn't make you innocent.
No, it makes Von guilty.
He's guilty. No one is denying that. He failed for spilling the test and providing a watered down test after practice.
Nomad
08-19-2013, 08:46 PM
He's guilty. No one is denying that. He failed for spilling the test and providing a watered down test after practice.
I was always told by the testers, a diluted test = a failed test.
Army Bronco
08-19-2013, 08:54 PM
Whatever.....Still a Von Miller fan. At least he didn't go shoot somebody.
Whatever.....Still a Von Miller fan. At least he didn't go shoot somebody.
Yes. Von decided to go out with a whimper instead of a bang.
Army Bronco
08-19-2013, 09:18 PM
Whatever.....Still a Von Miller fan. At least he didn't go shoot somebody.
Yes. Von decided to go out with a whimper instead of a bang.He is still not a murderer!
He is still not a murderer!
How can we be sure?
Timmy!
08-19-2013, 09:24 PM
How can we be sure?
Well he isn't named Aaron Hernandez for starters.
Well he isn't named Aaron Hernandez for starters.
I heard Von Miller is related to Von Dinkelburg of the Gestapo.
Timmy!
08-19-2013, 09:30 PM
I heard Von Miller is related to Von Dinkelburg of the Gestapo.
I heard Tom Brady loves the cok
Hilarious, Water is the culprit here! i did the same thing when i got tested once, Drank a shit ton of water and diluted the sample. Nothing people can do about it, apparently the draconian NFL Officials think its enough for a 6 game suspension. I heard they were pushing for 1 year at first. NFL makes me more PISSED then Von ever could. Hoho.
I always drank a shitload of cranberry juice to dilute your drug piss.
Well if you drink a bunch of water over like a 4 hour period, I mean LOTS, it will basically flush your entire system and dilute the sample. Commonly used for avoiding testing postive for marijuana.
Doesnt really clasify as a failed test always, but again apparentlly in the NFL it does.
This isn't a forum, or thread, to discuss how you have or how you can get around drug testing. I'm sure there is a stoner forum for that. Keep it on topic, and off of discussing how to circumvent drug tests or other illegal acts.
Chronic, DO NOT go into a rant about what is or isn't illegal. Just give it a rest.
I heard Tom Brady loves the cok
No, he has a super model wife Timmy! Do you have any pics of the last woman you have unsuccessfully satisfied?
Timmy!
08-19-2013, 09:35 PM
I wonder if dent yells at chronic in his sleep some nights.....
Timmy!
08-19-2013, 09:37 PM
No, he has a super model wife Timmy! Do you have any pics of the last woman you have unsuccessfully satisfied?
Unsuccessfully? Never happened............OK....fine....no, no pics of the ex.
Pudge
08-19-2013, 09:39 PM
I've gone in for a test and haven't been able to go. I drank so much water my guts hurt and it didn't come back diluted
ShaneFalco
08-19-2013, 09:41 PM
I've gone in for a test and haven't been able to go. I drank so much water my guys hurt and it didn't come back diluted
hahaaha
I wonder if dent yells at chronic in his sleep some nights.....
Shakes his fist when it rains, then curses my name.
Timmy!
08-19-2013, 09:43 PM
I've gone in for a test and haven't been able to go. I drank so much water my guys hurt and it didn't come back diluted
Ive had a test come back diluted. I was super hungover the day before the test and was pounding water all day....not saying von is totally innocent but it can and does happen.
Army Bronco
08-19-2013, 10:03 PM
The fact remains, since we've deviated......At least Von didn't kill someone.
Chef Zambini
08-19-2013, 11:35 PM
von was dancing like eddie murphy,
"i got my urine"
when he spilled it!
if this guy is not a complete moron he sure is doing a great impersonation.
Chef Zambini
08-19-2013, 11:38 PM
The fact remains, since we've deviated......At least Von didn't kill someone.not that we know of. a year ago patriot fans were saying the same thing about the trouble bubble that surrounded aaron hernandez.
DenBronx
08-20-2013, 03:20 AM
This isn't a forum, or thread, to discuss how you have or how you can get around drug testing. I'm sure there is a stoner forum for that. Keep it on topic, and off of discussing how to circumvent drug tests or other illegal acts.
Chronic, DO NOT go into a rant about what is or isn't illegal. Just give it a rest.
You just had to use yellow for PISSED didnt you. lol
Chef Zambini
08-20-2013, 09:42 AM
This isn't a forum, or thread, to discuss how you have or how you can get around drug testing. I'm sure there is a stoner forum for that. Keep it on topic, and off of discussing how to circumvent drug tests or other illegal acts.
Chronic, DO NOT go into a rant about what is or isn't illegal. Just give it a rest.e we allowed to discuss why von is in the NFL drug program and why he is required to pee in a cup?
avoiding or circumventing drug tets is EXACTLY why von is facing a suspension.
all his other extra-curricular/ vehicular activity is why his agent and attorneys know he has little hope for ANY appeal or reduction of suspension.
in FACT , his ARREST is yet another INFRACTION of his mandated drug program !
If this dope ever does figure out how to find his way to court on time, what is going to be his plea before the judge?
"mr. miller, how do you plea? "
"judge, I plead confidentiality"
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 09:50 AM
all his other extra-curricular/ vehicular activity is why his agent and attorneys know he has little hope for ANY appeal or reduction of suspension.
in FACT , his ARREST is yet another INFRACTION of his mandated drug program !
That's actually 100 percent false.
Dzone
08-20-2013, 09:50 AM
NFL system is broken
http://milehighsports.com/2013/08/20/ottewill-the-nfls-system-is-broken/
Chef Zambini
08-20-2013, 09:57 AM
That's actually 100 percent false.would you care to elaborate?
yes, I am offering Mo a shovel.
MOtorboat
08-20-2013, 10:04 AM
would you care to elaborate?
yes, I am offering Mo a shovel.
No. I'm not elaborating. It's been in every single story written about it and reported by every Denver reporter yesterday on twitter.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 10:11 AM
I was always told by the testers, a diluted test = a failed test.
Yeah, I think the fact that he "oops, I spilled" with the first test, then had a diluted second test has caused him to lose a lot of credibility in this. I don't want him traded or anything like that, but the fact is he has got to do some serious growing up.
Chef Zambini
08-20-2013, 10:15 AM
No. I'm not elaborating. It's been in every single story written about it and reported by every Denver reporter yesterday on twitter.mp, I said being arrested while in the NFL drug program was an infraction of the program. you declared that as 100% false.
of course you dont want to elaborate because somebody must have clued you in to reality!
"been reported' WTF is that, your confidentiality defense?
Nomad
08-20-2013, 10:15 AM
Yeah, I think the fact that he "oops, I spilled" with the first test, then had a diluted second test has caused him to lose a lot of credibility in this. I don't want him traded or anything like that, but the fact is he has got to do some serious growing up.
I don't want him gone either, just stating my experience with drug testing.
Chef Zambini
08-20-2013, 10:19 AM
Yeah, I think the fact that he "oops, I spilled" with the first test, then had a diluted second test has caused him to lose a lot of credibility in this. I don't want him traded or anything like that, but the fact is he has got to do some serious growing up.well until he groes up the broncos better get him a baby sitter !
otherwise he is just going to get in to more trouble during the suspension !
I guarantee it! no supervision, another arrest, guaranteed !
Nomad
08-20-2013, 10:24 AM
well until he groes up the broncos better get him a baby sitter !
otherwise he is just going to get in to more trouble during the suspension !
I guarantee it! no supervision, another arrest, guaranteed !
You're hired!:lol:
e we allowed to discuss why von is in the NFL drug program and why he is required to pee in a cup?
avoiding or circumventing drug tets is EXACTLY why von is facing a suspension.
all his other extra-curricular/ vehicular activity is why his agent and attorneys know he has little hope for ANY appeal or reduction of suspension.
in FACT , his ARREST is yet another INFRACTION of his mandated drug program !
If this dope ever does figure out how to find his way to court on time, what is going to be his plea before the judge?
"mr. miller, how do you plea? "
"judge, I plead confidentiality"
I'm not sure if this is your standard argue for the sake of arguing question, or a real question.
What I responded to was someone that was going into details about how he beats tests and offering advice on how to beat drug tests. That is taking it beyond the scope of discussing Von's failed test.
Ravage!!!
08-20-2013, 10:54 AM
guarantee. That's a word that anyone can give about anything.
I would like to ask Shake if I am allowed to make a comment in this thread. I am not asking any other Mod for permission.
Where are you Shake?
Shake, don't answer him. It will keep this troll out of here. :lol:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/19/spilled-urine-diluted-urine-led-to-von-miller-mess/
Are you kidding me? First DJ and McBean, now a year later Miller? Can't the NFL get its act together with its testers in the area?
You are blaming this on the NFL and the tester? :lol:
TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 11:03 AM
You are blaming this on the NFL and the tester? :lol:
I blame Canada.
iLands
08-20-2013, 11:04 AM
I think these circumstances are garbage.
If he'd just been drinking water at practice, he'd still pop. Did they not test the sample?
It sounds like they did not test the sample.
I see sunshine.
Northman
08-20-2013, 11:08 AM
"Seriously your honor, if that kid had not run out when i was lighting up my blunt he would be alive today!"
Ravage!!!
08-20-2013, 11:10 AM
I think these circumstances are garbage.
If he'd just been drinking water at practice, he'd still pop. Did they not test the sample?
It sounds like they did not test the sample.
I see sunshine.
it was a diluted sample. Thus, Von was trying to manipulate the samples... which by rule.. is an automatic (I believe). Hell, even if he tested "ok" in the test... if Von diluted the sample and tried to manipulate the results, that's already a violation. Doesn't really matter what the THC finding is at that point.
I blame Canada.
I blame Von.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 11:19 AM
You are blaming this on the NFL and the tester? :lol:
Yes, of course....didn't you know Roger G. called DJ and told him to provide a sample of animal urine and everything would be fine?
I think these circumstances are garbage.
If he'd just been drinking water at practice, he'd still pop. Did they not test the sample?
It sounds like they did not test the sample.
I see sunshine.
If it was dilluted, there was not enough creatinine to test. There has to be enough of that to actually run a successful test.
it was a diluted sample. Thus, Von was trying to manipulate the samples... which by rule.. is an automatic (I believe). Hell, even if he tested "ok" in the test... if Von diluted the sample and tried to manipulate the results, that's already a violation. Doesn't really matter what the THC finding is at that point.
It is not always intentional. I had a diluted just on the fact that I had to take a test at 10 am and could not hold it, went pee then had to take the 10 am test. His spilling it makes it look really suspicious though.
iLands
08-20-2013, 11:37 AM
it was a diluted sample. Thus, Von was trying to manipulate the samples... which by rule.. is an automatic (I believe). Hell, even if he tested "ok" in the test... if Von diluted the sample and tried to manipulate the results, that's already a violation. Doesn't really matter what the THC finding is at that point.
You're putting a lot of weight on supposed intent here. "Trying to manipulate."
Drinking some water during drills at practice won't stop the pop. Drinking water during drills at practice is the rational, reasonable thing to do. Staying hydrated is standard operating procedure. It differs from no norm.
"Diluted sample" is a meaningless, vague statement. What's diluted? 1ppm? 100ppm? 1,000,000,000,000,000ppm?
There will be a standard, rigorous, professional methodology to back these claims.
These terms have precise definitions and specific metrics in this context. If it is creatine levels, as GEM suggests, we'll hear that going forward.
I don't think this is as damning as most of you. This isn't a DJ whizzerator and kicking a bottle incident.
We'll find out the results soon enough.
Dzone
08-20-2013, 11:47 AM
Chris Landry saying that trying to circumvent the drug testing process is a 6 game suspension. "The coverup is worse than the crime"..He said it is possible that von never tested positive, but provided diluted/tampered samples every time.
Dzone
08-20-2013, 11:56 AM
Broncos just signed a 35 year old linebacker...His name is Paris something...never heard of him
powderaddict
08-20-2013, 12:06 PM
mp, I said being arrested while in the NFL drug program was an infraction of the program. you declared that as 100% false.
of course you dont want to elaborate because somebody must have clued you in to reality!
"been reported' WTF is that, your confidentiality defense?
He's right, being arrested on a traffic warrant has 0% bearing on the drug program case. It's been reported multiple times by credible sources. I'm not spending time hunting it down for someone who missed it, but it's out there.
silkamilkamonico
08-20-2013, 12:19 PM
You're putting a lot of weight on supposed intent here. "Trying to manipulate."
Drinking some water during drills at practice won't stop the pop. Drinking water during drills at practice is the rational, reasonable thing to do. Staying hydrated is standard operating procedure. It differs from no norm.
"Diluted sample" is a meaningless, vague statement. What's diluted? 1ppm? 100ppm? 1,000,000,000,000,000ppm?
There will be a standard, rigorous, professional methodology to back these claims.
These terms have precise definitions and specific metrics in this context. If it is creatine levels, as GEM suggests, we'll hear that going forward.
I don't think this is as damning as most of you. This isn't a DJ whizzerator and kicking a bottle incident.
We'll find out the results soon enough.
"diluted" is an irrelevant word in this situation.
The fact that he "spilled" the sample, and did not take another one right away, is in a way deemed by NFL as "circumventing". You cannot "not give" a legitimate urine sample at your requested time of a drug sample.
There's been lawyers and NFL analysts on the radio all morning talking about it.
It doesn't matter if he has never done any drugs in his life, you cannot "circumvent" a drug test.
If he had been smoking, and his test was diluted today, and he is then retested tomorrow and the test wasn't diluted, would he test positive, or once you flush enough water through to get a diluted sample, will you test negative from that point until you next smoke? I'm wondering if a solution would have been to test him after practice and then show up again the next morning for another test of if by that time it would have been too late for a meaningful test.
"diluted" is an irrelevant word in this situation.
The fact that he "spilled" the sample, and did not take another one right away, is in a way deemed by NFL as "circumventing". You cannot "not give" a legitimate urine sample at your requested time of a drug sample.
There's been lawyers and NFL analysts on the radio all morning talking about it.
It doesn't matter if he has never done any drugs in his life, you cannot "circumvent" a drug test.
Does it also fall on the drug testing then. Maybe the tester should not have allowed him to practice, but instead stayed with him, given him a reasonable ration of water, and then re-tested him, keeping him under supervision the entire time.
I think the only solution was for Von to not spill the sample accidentally on purpose.
silkamilkamonico
08-20-2013, 01:34 PM
Does it also fall on the drug testing then. Maybe the tester should not have allowed him to practice, but instead stayed with him, given him a reasonable ration of water, and then re-tested him, keeping him under supervision the entire time.
Yea it certainly could.
I'm assuming, but I would imagine with the sensitivity of drug testing, and the fact that both the league and also the player's career/reputation is at stake, there is a specific step by step/examples within the policy to help prevent any type of mishappenings like spilling a sample or what. I'm not sure what those are, but from what I'm understanding by listening to the interviews on the situation is that Miller indeed broke some definitive rule in the situations of drug testing. He knows it, and also the players union know it, as it seems they are trying to negotiate a difference of the expected game suspensions.
silkamilkamonico
08-20-2013, 01:37 PM
I think the only solution was for Von to not spill the sample accidentally on purpose.
That's exactly what I'm just going to think. Obviously the tester felt it wasn't a pure accident or there wouldn't have been a report written up. Or maybe reports have to be written up regardless. I'm not going to think for one second that both the NFL and the players union haven't made it clear to the players in some way, shape, or form about how careful they have to be when taking a test to help prevent spillages and other things that may affect the test as much as possible.
That's exactly what I'm just going to think. Obviously the tester felt it wasn't a pure accident or there wouldn't have been a report written up. Or maybe reports have to be written up regardless. I'm not going to think for one second that both the NFL and the players union haven't made it clear to the players in some way, shape, or form about how careful they have to be when taking a test to help prevent spillages and other things that may affect the test as much as possible.
Alfred Williams was saying yesterday that this type of thing was pretty typical when he was in the league...which is why the put in these rules to stop it.
Timmy!
08-20-2013, 03:49 PM
If he had been smoking, and his test was diluted today, and he is then retested tomorrow and the test wasn't diluted, would he test positive, or once you flush enough water through to get a diluted sample, will you test negative from that point until you next smoke? I'm wondering if a solution would have been to test him after practice and then show up again the next morning for another test of if by that time it would have been too late for a meaningful test.
Depends on the substance, but in the case of THC Von would have most likely have failed a test the next morning, assuming of course he would have failed the one he "spilled." THC stays in your system much longer other drugs as far as showing on a test.
Depends on the substance, but in the case of THC Von would have most likely have failed a test the next morning, assuming of course he would have failed the one he "spilled." THC stays in your system much longer other drugs as far as showing on a test.
Which is what I was thinking. If that's the case, even to avoid the possibility of a diluted sample, which granted they wanted know until testing, but considering it was going to be after practice where he could be hitting the water, why not test him the next day as well or the next two days.
It's possible Von was afraid of failing and did it all on purpose, but if it really was an accident on his part, it's pretty rough to get suspended in this way.
Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 05:28 PM
Which is what I was thinking. If that's the case, even to avoid the possibility of a diluted sample, which granted they wanted know until testing, but considering it was going to be after practice where he could be hitting the water, why not test him the next day as well or the next two days.
It's possible Von was afraid of failing and did it all on purpose, but if it really was an accident on his part, it's pretty rough to get suspended in this way.
It's kind of hard to see it all as circumstantial...first the spill, then the diluted sample. When you put them together it makes it look intentional.
Ravage!!!
08-20-2013, 05:32 PM
It's kind of hard to see it all as circumstantial...first the spill, then the diluted sample. When you put them together it makes it look intentional.
Yeah it does, because it WAS intentional. They don't wait beause they aren't going to "benefit" the guy being tested by giving him more days to take measures to hide his drug use. They aren't going to reward some stupid "oops I spilled the urine" stunt by simply saying ..."oooh, ok, well we'll just come back tomorrow."
Probably a good thing. I think Von would have drowned himself trying to flush his system!! :lol:
Broncolingus
08-20-2013, 06:01 PM
...with the (limited) 'facts' coming out, I am less and less convinced Mr. Miller is the victim of some really bad and unfortunate circumstance of events, which I was at least somewhat inclined to believe (parts of anyway) a few weeks ago...
No es bueno there, Von...:tsk:
ShaneFalco
08-20-2013, 06:39 PM
Which is what I was thinking. If that's the case, even to avoid the possibility of a diluted sample, which granted they wanted know until testing, but considering it was going to be after practice where he could be hitting the water, why not test him the next day as well or the next two days.
It's possible Von was afraid of failing and did it all on purpose, but if it really was an accident on his part, it's pretty rough to get suspended in this way.
That is what most places that drug test outside the of the NFL do when they are given a diluted sample.
Nomad
08-21-2013, 10:47 AM
Speaking of urine........
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/08/21/5-great-uses-for-pee-thank-smithsonian/?intcmp=features
Chef Zambini
08-21-2013, 12:43 PM
He's right, being arrested on a traffic warrant has 0% bearing on the drug program case. It's been reported multiple times by credible sources. I'm not spending time hunting it down for someone who missed it, but it's out there.failure to appear in court is NOT a traffic violation.
its an offense against the judicial system, contempt of court.
if you get a summons for burning leaves in your back yard and dont show in court, its not a gardening violation, its contempt of court, a bench warrent is NOT a traffic violation !
a bench warrent is a violation of the drug program!
Dzone
08-21-2013, 01:10 PM
Speaking of urine........
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/08/21/5-great-uses-for-pee-thank-smithsonian/?intcmp=features
Brilliant! :lol:
Do you just pee on your toothbrush or do you use it as a mouth wash?
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