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Denver Native (Carol)
08-17-2013, 01:39 PM
Being Rahim Moore means living by a few simple rules: accountability, hard work and attention to detail. You'd never shy away from talking about failure, and though you might have been shamed (see last season's playoff loss to the Baltimore Ravens), you won't choose to live with it.

Of all the position battles that were part of Broncos training camp, which wrapped up Thursday, Moore's spot at free safety wasn't one of them. It never was. And yet Moore hasn't played the part of a satisfied player, instead going about his business with a constant chip on his shoulder.

"My last name is Moore for a reason. I have to work more, more, more," he said, laughing. "That's a joke."

Then his tone turned serious.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_23882831/moore-has-new-attitude-covered

TXBRONC
08-17-2013, 01:56 PM
Good article.

A few things that caught my attention. There has been discussion here that Moore was not very good last year. Well his coach thinks quite the opposite. There was also some talk that Moore's job was in jeopardy again that doesn't appear to have been the case. Finally, I found it interesting that the starters for both the offense and defense might be on the field for most of the first half.

dogfish
08-17-2013, 02:36 PM
hopefully he can get the receiver covered this time as well. . .

TXBRONC
08-17-2013, 02:42 PM
hopefully he can get the receiver covered this time as well. . .

He said he's learned from his mistakes. I hope at same time Ayers learns not spin move out of the quarterback's line of sight.

Bosco
08-18-2013, 01:16 PM
The part that disappointed me about Moore was the stories that came out after the Raven's loss about how he was spending all this time in the weight room and so forth. That just showed to me that he doesn't really get it. Sorry, Rahim, you weren't a shitty safety in 2011 and an average at best one in 2012 because you lack athleticism, but because you lack football IQ.

Let's hope that in the meantime, he's lived in the film room.

chazoe60
08-18-2013, 01:35 PM
I thought Rahim had a pretty terrible game last night, but it's not lke he was the only one. :laugh:

Jsteve01
08-18-2013, 02:55 PM
The part that disappointed me about Moore was the stories that came out after the Raven's loss about how he was spending all this time in the weight room and so forth. That just showed to me that he doesn't really get it. Sorry, Rahim, you weren't a shitty safety in 2011 and an average at best one in 2012 because you lack athleticism, but because you lack football IQ.

Let's hope that in the meantime, he's lived in the film room. Bosco, I'll just say this. Moore was top 10 for safeties in 1st downs and touchdowns against. I'd say that's a little better than average. And perhaps hitting the weights was therapeutic. At least he was around the facility.

Broncolingus
08-18-2013, 03:18 PM
I thought Rahim had a pretty terrible game last night, but it's not lke he was the only one. :laugh:

I did too...

Regarding last year, I thought he had an overall good/above average season, but his 'gaff' was just one of epic proportions...

...and NO WAY he (solely) cost Denver the (Ravens) game, but 99.999999% of the time the safety intercepts or knocks that pass down.

Hopefully, he'll have learned from that...

Jsteve01
08-18-2013, 03:23 PM
I did too...

Regarding last year, I thought he had an overall good/above average season, but his 'gaff' was just one of epic proportions...

...and NO WAY he (solely) cost Denver the (Ravens) game, but 99.999999% of the time the safety intercepts or knocks that pass down.

Hopefully, he'll have learned from that... That play broke my heart, but I never for a minute was ready to give up on him because of the gaff. He took a horrible angle and misjudged Flacco's arm.

broncohead
08-18-2013, 03:37 PM
If people wanna cry about that one play then they didn't watch the whole game

rationalfan
08-18-2013, 05:10 PM
The part that disappointed me about Moore was the stories that came out after the Raven's loss about how he was spending all this time in the weight room and so forth. That just showed to me that he doesn't really get it. Sorry, Rahim, you weren't a shitty safety in 2011 and an average at best one in 2012 because you lack athleticism, but because you lack football IQ.

Let's hope that in the meantime, he's lived in the film room.

here's what i can't figure out. is this supposed to be humor or do you really believe what you read in the media is everything that a player does in his life?

chazoe60
08-18-2013, 05:13 PM
If people wanna cry about that one play then they didn't watch the whole game

Yep and Browns fans who still bring up "the Fumble" didn't watch that whole game either.


Fan police alert!

TXBRONC
08-18-2013, 05:43 PM
Yep and Browns fans who still bring up "the Fumble" didn't watch that whole game either.


Fan police alert!

I don't see what broncohead said as being the fan police. Moore is not the only one screwed the pooch on that play. Robert Ayers is every bit as responsible for what happened on that play as Moore is but doesn't get mentioned very often. He was right in Flacco's and decided pull a spin move which not only gave Flacco a clear line of sight to Jones it also gave him the room to step up in the pocket to make the throw.

TXBRONC
08-18-2013, 05:44 PM
here's what i can't figure out. is this supposed to be humor or do you really believe what you read in the media is everything that a player does in his life?

Well I don't think he's trying to be humorous.

chazoe60
08-18-2013, 05:48 PM
So a pass rusher making a spin move is as big of a mistake as a safety misjudging a ball by three yards with 30seconds left on the clock when you're up by 7? Not buying that "logic"


But this debate is tired and old. It's the last I'll talk about Rahim's prior flubs. All I hope is that he's better this year and if a game comes down to him making a play or not I hope he makes it this time. And I hope like Hell he doesn't introduce himself as Rahim "The Dream", because that will piss me off.

TXBRONC
08-18-2013, 06:00 PM
So a pass rusher making a spin move is as big of a mistake as a safety misjudging a ball by three yards with 30seconds left on the clock when you're up by 7? Not buying that "logic"


But this debate is tired and old. It's the last I'll talk about Rahim's prior flubs. All I hope is that he's better this year and if a game comes down to him making a play or not I hope he makes it this time. And I hope like Hell he doesn't introduce himself as Rahim "The Dream", because that will piss me off.

So what happens on the front end of that play doesn't matter? That hasn't got an ounce of logic in it. There is nothing logical saying it doesn't matter if you quarterback a clear line of sight and to give him the room to step up in the pockets so has chance to make the throw.

I don't bring it up until people starting complaining about tha play.

So it would piss you off and then what?

Nomad
08-19-2013, 09:18 AM
Bosco, I'll just say this. Moore was top 10 for safeties in 1st downs and touchdowns against. I'd say that's a little better than average. And perhaps hitting the weights was therapeutic. At least he was around the facility.

Yep! He could of been like a number of numbnuts around the NFL after a loss and feeling sorry for themselves, getting drunk and gets a DUI. Instead, he went to the weightroom.

The misread is last year, it's a new year and I expect him to be better.

Bosco
08-20-2013, 12:49 PM
Bosco, I'll just say this. Moore was top 10 for safeties in 1st downs and touchdowns against. I'd say that's a little better than average. And perhaps hitting the weights was therapeutic. At least he was around the facility.

A stat which you pulled from the laughingstock that is PFF, right? Exactly. Here's what that stat is meaningless.

- Moore played almost exclusively in deep zones.
- Deadly pass rush that prevented teams from directly attacking him.
- Adams and Leonhard being assigned man under coverages despite being bad and barely serviceable in those roles, respectively.

The third point should tell you what the coaching staff really thought of Moore's ability.


here's what i can't figure out. is this supposed to be humor or do you really believe what you read in the media is everything that a player does in his life?

I think you should reread my post. I stated that I hoped Moore was spending extra time in the film room, which by simple logic would equate to an admission that I do not in fact think that a media report covers his entire life.


Robert Ayers is every bit as responsible for what happened on that play. He was right in Flacco's and decided pull a spin move which not only gave Flacco a clear line of sight to Jones it also gave him the room to step up in the pocket to make the throw.

Completely ******* ludicrous. First, you don't understand a damn thing about situational play. In that situation (3rd and 3, 40 some seconds left with no timeouts, field position, 2x2 shotgun set that is an obvious hint at a four verticals play) the players who are rushing the passer and supposed to do just that, rush the passer. They are given enormous freedom in how they do so, even more so than on your typical play. Second, if you go back and watch the video, Ayers is lined up almost directly over the center in a zero technique and gets doubled immediately. He's not a 330+lb nose tackle who can collapse the pocket from the middle against a double team. He used his quickness to beat both blockers and pressure Flacco. If he doesn't do that he's simply getting stonewalled at the LOS and Flacco has the pocket anyways. Even if one were to take the stance that Ayers ****** up on that play (he really didn't) it had such a minimal impact on the play that to put it on the same level of the guy who blew his entire assignment is mind blowing levels of insanity.

Here's who's to blame for that travesty of a play, in descending order.

1) Moore. Multiple mental and technique errors resulting in what was the ultimately the decisive score of the game. Literally did not do a single thing right on that play.

2) Del Rio. Called a coverage scheme that was totally inappropriate for the situation topped off with a 3 man pass rush when all game long we barely got pressure when rushing 4.

3) John Fox. Should have overruled Del Rio the second he heard that playcall go out over the headset.

4) Ron Milus and Sam Garnes for not having Moore better prepared for that situation.

That's about it. Everyone else did their job on that play.

TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 01:18 PM
Yep! He could of been like a number of numbnuts around the NFL after a loss and feeling sorry for themselves, getting drunk and gets a DUI. Instead, he went to the weightroom.

The misread is last year, it's a new year and I expect him to be better.

Agreed.

Hopefully Ayers will learn from his mistake as well.

Buff
08-20-2013, 01:54 PM
Great, so he has a new attitude - but can he cover the deep ball?

rationalfan
08-20-2013, 02:03 PM
I think you should reread my post. I stated that I hoped Moore was spending extra time in the film room, which by simple logic would equate to an admission that I do not in fact think that a media report covers his entire life.


really? because your original post read like it was written by some guy still venting his frustration about a loss through a player's imagined ineptitudes. generalized. ignorant. targeted.

moore messed up, get over it people. so much of the stuff on here reads like it carries a subtext of "this game was more important to me than it was for the players, i can't believe they didn't try hard enough to win."

blah. blah. blah. it's a game. one team will lose. sometimes it will be the broncos. that's the system. crying about it or holding frustration months/years later comes off like a 40 year old guy still upset his high school crush didn't go to prom with him. ugh.

TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 02:09 PM
Great, so he has a new attitude - but can he cover the deep ball?

I'm pretty sure he can cover it better than either one of us Buff. :D

broncohead
08-20-2013, 02:11 PM
Yep and Browns fans who still bring up "the Fumble" didn't watch that whole game either.


Fan police alert!

Your right our whole team played a perfect game and Moore is the only weak link. We just gotta go get a hof safety

slim
08-20-2013, 02:11 PM
Great, so he has a new attitude - but can he cover the deep ball?

No, but he will fail with a smile on his face!

Bosco
08-20-2013, 02:11 PM
Agreed.

Hopefully Ayers will learn from his mistake as well.

No matter how many times you repeat it, you will still be wrong.


really? because your original post read like it was written by some guy still venting his frustration about a loss through a player's imagined ineptitudes. generalized. ignorant. targeted.

moore messed up, get over it people. so much of the stuff on here reads like it carries a subtext of "this game was more important to me than it was for the players, i can't believe they didn't try hard enough to win."

blah. blah. blah. it's a game. one team will lose. sometimes it will be the broncos. that's the system. crying about it or holding frustration months/years later comes off like a 40 year old guy still upset his high school didn't go to prom with him. ugh.

I probably sound frustrated and angry because I am frustrated and angry. We didn't lose because we played a better team. We lost because we made many mental errors and went into the game with a soft philosophy. Moore was simply the one who made the biggest mistake on the day, and it was a mistake a high school safety should have been able to handle mentally, and his mistake basically ended the game for us.

The anger and frustration sent Moore's way is directly proportional to the epic failure he was on that play.

chazoe60
08-20-2013, 02:14 PM
Your right our whole team played a perfect game and Moore is the only weak link. We just gotta go get a hof safety

As did everyone but Ernest Byner on that fateful day in the 80's.

powderaddict
08-20-2013, 02:21 PM
Listen, I generally like Moore, but that play was a historically bad blunder. He was in PERFECT position to make a play. He didn't.

He didn't lose the game all by himself, but that one play was a huge reason we lost the game. IMO the biggest of the "bad plays".

Trying to pin that play on Ayers when Moore had a perfect opportunity to make a play is pretty silly, and completely ignores the scope of Moore's blunder on that play.

We can't change the past, and I hope he learns and moves on, and becomes a better player.

powderaddict
08-20-2013, 02:22 PM
As did everyone but Ernest Byner on that fateful day in the 80's.

That was the first game I attended in person :)

Great analogy.

broncohead
08-20-2013, 02:24 PM
Did you only watch the last couple minutes of the 4th?

TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 02:26 PM
Listen, I generally like Moore, but that play was a historically bad blunder. He was in PERFECT position to make a play. He didn't.

He didn't lose the game all by himself, but that one play was a huge reason we lost the game. IMO the biggest of the "bad plays".

Trying to pin that play on Ayers when Moore had a perfect opportunity to make a play is pretty silly, and completely ignores the scope of Moore's blunder on that play.

We can't change the past, and I hope he learns and moves on, and becomes a better player.

No I'm not trying to pin in on Ayers. But the front of play matters as much as the back end.

broncohead
08-20-2013, 02:28 PM
Listen, I generally like Moore, but that play was a historically bad blunder. He was in PERFECT position to make a play. He didn't.

He didn't lose the game all by himself, but that one play was a huge reason we lost the game. IMO the biggest of the "bad plays".

Trying to pin that play on Ayers when Moore had a perfect opportunity to make a play is pretty silly, and completely ignores the scope of Moore's blunder on that play.

We can't change the past, and I hope he learns and moves on, and becomes a better player.

That was a terrible play on Moore's part no doubt. I also realize its a team game as you mentioned

Bosco
08-20-2013, 02:30 PM
No I'm not trying to pin in on Ayers. But the front of play matters as much as the back end.

That's awesome. Ayers, Miller and Doom did a good job on that play despite being the only pass rushers.

powderaddict
08-20-2013, 02:33 PM
No I'm not trying to pin in on Ayers. But the front of play matters as much as the back end.

Not on a play where you drop the majority back in coverage, it doesn't.

rationalfan
08-20-2013, 02:35 PM
No matter how many times you repeat it, you will still be wrong.



I probably sound frustrated and angry because I am frustrated and angry. We didn't lose because we played a better team. We lost because we made many mental errors and went into the game with a soft philosophy. Moore was simply the one who made the biggest mistake on the day, and it was a mistake a high school safety should have been able to handle mentally, and his mistake basically ended the game for us.

The anger and frustration sent Moore's way is directly proportional to the epic failure he was on that play.

i can understand your feelings, but at some point we all have to move on, man. animosity can be poisonous.

TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 02:36 PM
That was a terrible play on Moore's part no doubt. I also realize its a team game as you mentioned

No doubt he screwed up but he wasn't the only one.

Bosco
08-20-2013, 02:36 PM
Not on a play where you drop the majority back in coverage, it doesn't.

That's what TXBronc doesn't seem to comprehend. In that playcall, the defensive line's job is to go get the quarterback and nothing else. It's not like a "typical" playcall where he's supposed to shoot a gap and stay in his lane.

TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 02:39 PM
Not on a play where you drop the majority back in coverage, it doesn't.

I disgree it's every bit as important.

Bosco
08-20-2013, 02:42 PM
I disgree it's every bit as important.

And you're wrong...again.

TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 03:09 PM
Fundamental line play in that situation is that you make sure you stay in front of the quarterback and obstruct his view and don't give him room to step up in pocket. That does not excuse Moore in any way.

powderaddict
08-20-2013, 03:12 PM
Fundamental line play in that situation is that you make sure you stay in front of the quarterback and obstruct his view and don't give him room to step up in pocket. That does not excuse Moore in any way.

You rarely see good pressure on a three man rush. It happens, but it's the exception. Their job is usually to contain the QB, and if they get pressure, gravy!

TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 03:17 PM
You rarely see good pressure on a three man rush. It happens, but it's the exception. Their job is usually to contain the QB, and if they get pressure, gravy!

That's what I just said. That's stay in front of the quarterback. Again it doesn't excuse Moore in the least.

powderaddict
08-20-2013, 03:30 PM
That's what I just said. That's stay in front of the quarterback. Again it doesn't excuse Moore in the least.

So they did what linemen typically do, and you single Ayers out and say he is to blame as much as Moore?

That's like saying the TE was as much at fault when Orton dropped the ball at the end of the raiders game a couple years ago because he wasn't wide open.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18bbm9gdagk7tgif/original.gif

Look at that play one more time. Look closely. Moore had perfect position, time, and ability to make the play. He messed up. Everyone does from time to time, this one happened to be in a critical moment and was very visible. But it was a historically bad play that ultimately was a huge factor in the loss. Just like Byner's fumble in the AFC Championship game.

If Ayers had a free run to kill the QB untouched, stopped, turned around, and sat on the ground giving Flacco time to throw to an open receiver, then I can see why you might bring Ayers into the discussion. But otherwise, I'm having a hard time understanding where you are coming from.

chazoe60
08-20-2013, 03:33 PM
TX, you're wrong. Simple as that.

slim
08-20-2013, 03:40 PM
He was not in perfect position. That is nonsense. Perfect position would have been 5 yards on the other side of the WR.

TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 03:44 PM
So they did what linemen typically do, and you single Ayers out and say he is to blame as much as Moore?

That's like saying the TE was as much at fault when Orton dropped the ball at the end of the raiders game a couple years ago because he wasn't wide open.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18bbm9gdagk7tgif/original.gif

Look at that play one more time. Look closely. Moore had perfect position, time, and ability to make the play. He messed up. Everyone does from time to time, this one happened to be in a critical moment and was very visible. But it was a historically bad play that ultimately was a huge factor in the loss. Just like Byner's fumble in the AFC Championship game.

If Ayers had a free run to kill the QB untouched, stopped, turned around, and sat on the ground giving Flacco time to throw to an open receiver, then I can see why you might bring Ayers into the discussion. But otherwise, I'm having a hard time understanding where you are coming from.

No I'm singling Ayers out. The point is Moore is not only one that screwed up on that play. I've said that several times.

Northman
08-20-2013, 03:47 PM
He still gets the brunt of the blame. He was out of position and should of NEVER let the receiver get behind him. People can spin it all they want but that was a play that should of been made with or without a pass rush. Football 101 folks.

Poet
08-20-2013, 03:49 PM
He's going to have to make a pick six in the SB or AFCCG for people to get off his back.

powderaddict
08-20-2013, 03:51 PM
He was not in perfect position. That is nonsense. Perfect position would have been 5 yards on the other side of the WR.

He is running towards the receiver with plenty of time and speed to get there before the ball does. Then, he inexplicably turns around and falls flat on his ass.

If he has time and opportunity, then he is in perfect position to make the play. I said perfect position,...., TO MAKE THE PLAY.

Edited: If you look, when he first comes into the picture, he is actually deeper than the WR.

powderaddict
08-20-2013, 03:51 PM
He's going to have to make a pick six in the SB or AFCCG for people to get off his back.

No, what's done is done. If he plays well and contributes then I'm glad to have him.

If he screws up like that regularly, he will be looking for work.

Northman
08-20-2013, 03:51 PM
He's going to have to make a pick six in the SB or AFCCG for people to get off his back.

Not for me.

Im over it by now but it still amazes me that people want to excuse him for being out of position. In a perfect world any safety or DB would love to have a pass rush that would sack the QB in 3 seconds and make their job easier. But there are responsibilities of the secondary that were not met, namely by Moore in the most crucial time of the game. It happens, but lets just simply call it what it was. A fubar on his part.

slim
08-20-2013, 03:53 PM
He is running towards the received with plenty of time and speed to get there before the ball does. Then, he inexplicably turns around and falls flat on his ass.

If he has time and opportunity, then he is in perfect position to make the play. I said perfect position,...., TO MAKE THE PLAY.

OK, I agree he could have made a play there. But he was badly out of position.

Poet
08-20-2013, 03:53 PM
Not for me.

Im over it by now but it still amazes me that people want to excuse him for being out of position. In a perfect world any safety or DB would love to have a pass rush that would sack the QB in 3 seconds and make their job easier. But there are responsibilities of the secondary that were not met, namely by Moore in the most crucial time of the game. It happens, but lets just simply call it what it was. A fubar on his part.

I think this message board will implode one night if Moore makes a great play and an awful one. It will become the battle of the worth of the good play versus the detrimental damage down by the bad play. I'm just waiting for it.

As far as defending Moore, you can't. It's just not a logical or plausible defense.

Northman
08-20-2013, 03:55 PM
I think this message board will implode one night if Moore makes a great play and an awful one. It will become the battle of the worth of the good play versus the detrimental damage down by the bad play. I'm just waiting for it.

.

It will happen and then people will be happy except for RF who will lecture everyone on why they shouldnt of been so harsh on him. lol

Poet
08-20-2013, 03:57 PM
It will happen and then people will be happy except for RF who will lecture everyone on why they shouldnt of been so harsh on him. lol

The 'best' would be if his play was inconsistent. That would make the debate rage on and on.

Personally I think he's going to rectify his play.

slim
08-20-2013, 03:57 PM
I think this message board will implode one night if Moore makes a great play and an awful one. It will become the battle of the worth of the good play versus the detrimental damage down by the bad play. I'm just waiting for it.

As far as defending Moore, you can't. It's just not a logical or plausible defense.

It is interesting to hear the opinion of someone that doesn't have a dog in the fight.

Northman
08-20-2013, 03:58 PM
The 'best' would be if his play was inconsistent. That would make the debate rage on and on.

Personally I think he's going to rectify his play.

I just want Jay Cutler back. Then the board will be a lot of fun.

Poet
08-20-2013, 03:59 PM
It is interesting to hear the opinion of someone that doesn't have a dog in the fight.

Just because my first name's Mike doesn't mean my last name is Vick. You speaka da truth.

Poet
08-20-2013, 03:59 PM
I just want Jay Cutler back. Then the board will be a lot of fun.

You guys trade for Cutler and bench Manning...oh man...god damn...


I WISH!!!!!

TXBRONC
08-20-2013, 04:11 PM
I just want Jay Cutler back. Then the board will be a lot of fun.

Oh yeah this place would be a blast.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
08-20-2013, 05:39 PM
He is running towards the receiver with plenty of time and speed to get there before the ball does. Then, he inexplicably turns around and falls flat on his ass.

If he has time and opportunity, then he is in perfect position to make the play. I said perfect position,...., TO MAKE THE PLAY.

Edited: If you look, when he first comes into the picture, he is actually deeper than the WR.

Yep, he misjudged the flight of the ball. I wonder if he just didn't believe Flacco had it in him. Who knows, it's really in-explainable.

Bosco
08-20-2013, 07:08 PM
Fundamental line play in that situation is that you make sure you stay in front of the quarterback and obstruct his view and don't give him room to step up in pocket. That does not excuse Moore in any way.

Like Chaz said, you're wrong.

Flat out wrong.

That's a pure pass rush situation. Go get the quarterback, however you can.

Bosco
08-20-2013, 07:12 PM
Yep, he misjudged the flight of the ball. I wonder if he just didn't believe Flacco had it in him. Who knows, it's really in-explainable.

His first mistake was coming up as if he was going to play the underneath routes. Totally stupid and not at all his responsibility. That put him out of position. Then he tried to back peddle rather than flipping his hips and running, thus allowing the receiver behind him.

Just terrible, all around.