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View Full Version : Ziggy's Training Camp Report- 8/5



Ziggy
08-05-2013, 04:51 PM
My last trip to training camp this year, and the weather was perfect. This is my 2nd training camp practice attended along with the scrimmage, so I was looking more for consistencies today than anything. Let's get to it:

Offense-

Peyton Manning- His arm is stronger this season. No doubt about it. He showed quite a bit of frustration today as the first team offense was dominated.

Osweiller- He still looks like a 2nd year QB. His mechanics are better and his reads are slightly quicker, but he's still thinking and not just playing out there.

Welker- They had a cone drill where the receivers would sprint to a cone, stop and turn, and accelerate into the catch. He stops and gets back to full speed much quicker than anyone else out there. It was impressive to watch.

DT- Unstoppable. He's too big and too fast for anyone to cover. He did drop one pass in the one vs. ones, but other than that he looks even better than last season.

Decker- Very solid. His route running looks crisper this season.

King- He didn't stand out today like he did last week. You can still see the speed though.

Julius Thomas- Once again dominated the scrimmage. He gets a ton of reps running with both first and second team offenses. If he can stay healthy, he can dominate.

Orlando Franklin- He was looking good until he got hurt. I don't know what the injury was, but he did get up and walk gingerly after it happened. His practice was over after that.

Louis Vasquez- He surprisingly played RT after Franklin went down. It was obvious that he hasn't played tackle in many many years, if ever.

Ryan Lilja- He played some center with the 2nd and 3rd team before Franklin went down. After, he play first team right guard. I was watching him closely. He gets to the second level quickly, but looked like he was going to collapse from fatigue after every series. He has a ways to go to get in football shape which is understandable.

Ramirez- He's not a starting NFL center. Period.

Beadles- Same story different year. He looks great pulling, gets dominated trying to anchor.

Virgil Green- The level of talent between him and Julius is night and day. He did get a few plays in at FB.

Knowshon Moreno- Dropped one pass, and did nothing else of note.

Hillman- He's quick and cuts decisively. If he can stay healthy, he might have a decent year in the ZBS.

Montee Ball- You can see the power in his drives, but he still looks like a rook outside of the goal line area. He was chewed out by Manning once again for missing an assignment.

Offensive Notes- The offensive line was dominated all day long. You could see the frustration in Manning throughout practice. I didn't see Greg Orton or Jeremiah Johnson out there at all. Tamme was out in pads, but I didn't see him in the contact drills. He may have been, but I didn't look for him or notice him at all.

Defense upcoming.

Ziggy
08-05-2013, 05:11 PM
Defense-

Vickerson- Large and in charge. He's a bully out there. Not much of a pass rush, but an unstoppable force against the run. I don't care what the depth chart says, I haven't seen him play anything but NT. It explains why Pot Roast hasn't had a single rep with the 1's in the 3 times I've seen them.

Wolfe- He's solid in every area. Nothing flashy, just gets the job done.

Sly- I was pleasantly surprised to see him out there today. He was running at UT with the first team D. I also watched him closely in the pass rush drills. A man that large should not be able to move that quickly. I was very impressed with him.

Ayers- Looks like the same player as last season.

Bradley- He was starting with both the 1's and 2's, and looked pretty good.

Von- Lightning quick. You can't tell by his speed that he put weight on in the offseason. He looks every bit as fast as he did last season.

Malik Jackson- Rotated in with the 1's and started with the 2's today. He made one very good play in 11 on 11's, but I didn't see anything else pop out with him.

Woody- He's a clown. He was screwing with a few of the Olineman before they came out for the hail mary practice play. They grabbed him, stole his mouth piece and threw it across the field. He's solid all the way across. Good against the run and pass.

Trevathan- Still running in the first team nickel D. He's quick and good in coverage.

Rahim Moore- He's very solid out there in practice. Nothing flashy, but good overall coverage.

Nacho- Still starting with the first unit. He was the undisputed star of practice today. He was making plays behind the LOS, and breaking up TD passes again.

Adams- I think he has a hard time making the final roster. He's running with the 2's and 3's.

Bruton- Nothing spectacular today. I still think that his place is on special teams.

Champ- Looks like Champ.

Tony Carter- He's gone from promising young corner to someone on the bubble IMO.

Harris- He played very well on the outside as the #2 corner.

Shaun Phillips- He looks like a nice compliment to Von. He's no Doom, but he can still put some pressure on from the outside.




Notes- As I said earlier, the DLine was dominating the starting Oline. Of course, they only had 2 starters out there for the most part, and Vasquez was playing tackle. They look good though. This line has size, quickness, and strength. I didn't see Nate Irving out there at all. Champ stopped taking reps about 3/4 of the way through practice. He wasn't hurt. I think they just wanted to get a look at some different players out there.

slim
08-05-2013, 05:17 PM
Thanks for the breakdown.

I think Irving was excused from practiced for some personal issues.

silkamilkamonico
08-05-2013, 05:23 PM
Good report.

I have been hearing that there are some major concerns for our oline this year, and that by the end of the year the defense is going to be the cornerstone of this organization for the playoff run.

topscribe
08-05-2013, 05:25 PM
Thanks, Zig. That was great! It gave some insight on some things I wanted to know about.

It makes sense the D-line would have dominated the O-line so thoroughly, with Clady not
there yet, Manny still at center, and then, after Franklin went down, an out-of-shape Lilja
stepping in at guard and Vasquez showing he will never play tackle. No worries on my part.
That will be some kind of O-line once Clady, Lilja, and Franklin are back in there, IMO.

GEM
08-05-2013, 05:54 PM
Oline is really starting to worry me.

G_Money
08-05-2013, 06:25 PM
Might look a lot like last year with a slow start while we try to get some folks healthy on the OL, GEM. If we can GET healthy we should be awesome coming down the stretch, but Man-Ram at center makes me queasy. Don't think that's gonna last even into the first week of the season. Maybe Painter can play some at guard? :huh: Just hope we get the mix right before Manning's head pops off like a grape.

~G

Ziggy
08-05-2013, 06:32 PM
Might look a lot like last year with a slow start while we try to get some folks healthy on the OL, GEM. If we can GET healthy we should be awesome coming down the stretch, but Man-Ram at center makes me queasy. Don't think that's gonna last even into the first week of the season. Maybe Painter can play some at guard? :huh: Just hope we get the mix right before Manning's head pops off like a grape.

~G

Painter is a pure project at tackle. He was another one that I was watching closely out there today. He has the ideal size for a tackle, but he needs a ton of development. I think Lilja is starting at center by the 2nd or 3rd preseason game. Even out of shape it was impressive seeing him get to the 2nd level. I agree though G. The Broncos might start slower out of the gate than some expect. I don't plan on seeing much of Manning in the preseason with the line in the state it's in. I think he plays even less than usual in the next 3 weeks.

gregbroncs
08-05-2013, 06:35 PM
Oline is really starting to worry me.I'm really starting to hope that our D-line is just so dominant that our O-line will be okay when they don't have to play against these guys. Probably wishful thinking but after all the reports I've heard it's the best I've got. :(

Pudge
08-05-2013, 06:46 PM
Are you from Utah Greg?

GEM
08-05-2013, 06:47 PM
Can Sylvester fill in at C? :lol:

Ziggy
08-05-2013, 06:49 PM
Can Sylvester fill in at C? :lol:

I was shocked at how quick he is. He was doing well in the drills and being taught up constantly by the coaches. In the first team vs. first team plays he was running with the first team and being doubled on every play. I don't think they plan on bringing him along slowly, and I think he's the main reason that Vickerson has moved from the UT in base D to the NT position full time now.

G_Money
08-05-2013, 07:41 PM
Painter is a pure project at tackle. He was another one that I was watching closely out there today. He has the ideal size for a tackle, but he needs a ton of development. I think Lilja is starting at center by the 2nd or 3rd preseason game. Even out of shape it was impressive seeing him get to the 2nd level. I agree though G. The Broncos might start slower out of the gate than some expect. I don't plan on seeing much of Manning in the preseason with the line in the state it's in. I think he plays even less than usual in the next 3 weeks.

Painter reminds me of Polumbus as far as a raw RT project goes. Polumbus is still going, and starting, but he's not exactly an All-Pro. Painter has a great OL coach to learn from, though. I'm hoping we can stash him and train him up. And yeah, if Lilja isn't our starting C I'll be pretty surprised, even having missed all that conditioning and all those reps.

Manny Ramirez being given any serious responsibility on this line scares the pants off me.

~G

gregbroncs
08-05-2013, 08:12 PM
Are you from Utah Greg?Yea. Been a Broncos fan for 31 years though.

Jsteve01
08-05-2013, 09:10 PM
Ziggy what exactly are you seeing with Manny? Or should I say not seeing.

topscribe
08-05-2013, 09:19 PM
C'mon, peeps. Deep breaths. Our O-line is fine. Just a few injuries right now. :)

tomjonesrocks
08-05-2013, 09:24 PM
Great stuff Ziggy--thanks!

Jsteve01
08-05-2013, 09:26 PM
C'mon, peeps. Deep breaths. Our O-line is fine. Just a few injuries right now. :)

a few injuries and ManRam as our center are a little concerning

TXBRONC
08-05-2013, 09:47 PM
I'm not worried about the offensive line just yet. We have several people still trying to get healed up. Once they do Denver's offense will be fine.

Hawgdriver
08-05-2013, 09:58 PM
a few injuries and ManRam as our center are a little concerning

Any weakness will be a focus of our opponents, and they will find a way to exploit it. No panic here, just reality.

Pudge
08-05-2013, 10:01 PM
Yea. Been a Broncos fan for 31 years though.

I'm from Utah too, just wondering what part

Ziggy
08-05-2013, 11:19 PM
Ziggy what exactly are you seeing with Manny? Or should I say not seeing.

He's lost at center. He's slow to figure out which guard to help, can't get to the second level, and at times he's getting blown off of the line.

DenBronx
08-05-2013, 11:31 PM
Really worried about the loss of Dumervil and how this defense will react to that.

But now I am even more worried about our C position and MLB.

Dzone
08-05-2013, 11:41 PM
great report Zig. Thanks!

Northman
08-06-2013, 05:37 AM
Oline is really starting to worry me.

Same here. Its not like our defense is a juggernaut so there is some major concern for me. I was coming into this season expecting the offense to be better than last year but with a banged up Oline and lack of quality depth there can pose a real problem for the season.

TXBRONC
08-06-2013, 06:29 AM
They will ok it's just going to take some time to get everyone healthy.

CoachChaz
08-06-2013, 09:02 AM
Nothing personal against Zig or anyone else that posts reports...but I always find it interesting to read them. If you know a posters personnel likes and dislikes well enough, you can almost predict how they will assess the players individually.

Example: Ramirez and Moreno could have a great day...but if a poster doesnt particularly like them...they were unimpressive. Bailey and Manning could have mediocre days...but if a poster likes them...they were just being Champ and Manning.

It's interesting

Ziggy
08-06-2013, 11:04 AM
Nothing personal against Zig or anyone else that posts reports...but I always find it interesting to read them. If you know a posters personnel likes and dislikes well enough, you can almost predict how they will assess the players individually.

Example: Ramirez and Moreno could have a great day...but if a poster doesnt particularly like them...they were unimpressive. Bailey and Manning could have mediocre days...but if a poster likes them...they were just being Champ and Manning.

It's interesting


If you look at Lammy's report yesterday, he paints the picture of Nacho and Hillman talking trash to one another after Nacho made a horse collar tackle on him.

No. 21 Ronnie Hillman: Hillman continued to show well as a runner and receiver out of the backfield. He had a big run to the outside that went for about seven yards but could have been a much bigger (around 50 yards) had it not been for a horse collar tackle by SS Duke Ihenacho. Hillman got up from that tackle and started jawing at Ihenacho and the young Safety was talking back.
http://denverssportsstation.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=7981
That's not what happened at all. It was right in front of us. Nacho made a clothes-line tackle and then went over to Hillman to apologize. Hillman shoved him away in anger, shouted at him and they went their separate ways. That's just one example of how things can be portrayed differently depending on what view you have at practice. I think that at times it more about what people see from where they are sitting than their personal views of players.
Either way, take it however you want. I wouldn't put too much weight into any one report. I look for the same info out of various reports. For example, Nacho and Julius Thomas dominating practices and making plays consistently is something that has been echoed in many people's reports. With so many folks seeing the same thing, you can believe that there's some truth to it.

You can read 10 training camp reports and get 10 different scenarios of the same practice. I think that those of us who do them are just trying to bring camp to everyone else as much as we can. Folks don't have to put any weight into it. It's just a courtesy. I know that I appreciate others reports when I can't make it down. Any news on the Broncos is better than no news. If you've ever been to camp, you know that the fans on the hill have a far better view of most of practice than the media does.

TXBRONC
08-06-2013, 11:28 AM
If you look at Lammy's report yesterday, he paints the picture of Nacho and Hillman talking trash to one another after Nacho made a horse collar tackle on him.

http://denverssportsstation.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=7981
That's not what happened at all. It was right in front of us. Nacho made a clothes-line tackle and then went over to Hillman to apologize. Hillman shoved him away in anger, shouted at him and they went their separate ways. That's just one example of how things can be portrayed differently depending on what view you have at practice. I think that at times it more about what people see from where they are sitting than their personal views of players.
Either way, take it however you want. I wouldn't put too much weight into any one report. I look for the same info out of various reports. For example, Nacho and Julius Thomas dominating practices and making plays consistently is something that has been echoed in many people's reports. With so many folks seeing the same thing, you can believe that there's some truth to it.

You can read 10 training camp reports and get 10 different scenarios of the same practice. I think that those of us who do them are just trying to bring camp to everyone else as much as we can. Folks don't have to put any weight into it. It's just a courtesy. I know that I appreciate others reports when I can't make it down. Any news on the Broncos is better than no news. If you've ever been to camp, you know that the fans on the hill have a far better view of most of practice than the media does.

Zig if I didn't say this before thanks for updates. It's appreciated bro.

Like you said get 10 different people looking at the samething and get 10 different perspectives. But if something happens right in front you it's hard to dispute.

DenBronx
08-06-2013, 01:45 PM
If you look at Lammy's report yesterday, he paints the picture of Nacho and Hillman talking trash to one another after Nacho made a horse collar tackle on him.

http://denverssportsstation.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=7981
That's not what happened at all. It was right in front of us. Nacho made a clothes-line tackle and then went over to Hillman to apologize. Hillman shoved him away in anger, shouted at him and they went their separate ways.

Jawing and shouting at each other sure do sound alot alike to me. Maybe Lammey wasnt as close to you to hear the apology??? Not sure but seems like he wanted to go on and talk about something else. But you are right, everyones going to have a differant interpretation on it.

Sure do appreciate the reports. You guys that live in Denver are spoiled. Wish my Broncos were here in California b/c I am never leaving the West Coast.

G_Money
08-06-2013, 02:08 PM
Seriously, I love these things. One of these years I'm gonna get up to Dove Valley. Someday before I move. Thanks Zig.

PS - Ramirez sucks. :lol:

~G