Entering Camp as the #1 back?

[BroncoJoe]

Ronnie Hillman.


The Denver Broncos will be entering training camp with RB Ronnie Hillman as the number 1 option in the running game. That doesn’t mean he will start the season as the number 1 guy though. Rookie RB Montee Ball will be doing everything he can during training camp and preseason to overtake that spot as the number 1 guy.

http://nflspinzone.com/2013/07/21/ronnie-hillman-entering-denver-broncos-training-camp-as-lead-back/

[MOtorboat]

Lost in the other news of today...this is pretty damned interesting.

[BroncoJoe]

No mention of Knowshon. Interesting...

[underrated29]

eh i guess.

We already know how the depth chart is going to look.

montee
ronnie
knowshon
hester

The only way that changes is via bad news ( I refuse to say it) or that hillman or someone else really kicks some serious ass in tc and preseason and forces the coaches to sit another guy.

[slim]

Not sure why this would be surprising.

Knowhon is still not ready to play and Hillman was getting 1st team reps in OTAs.

[Ziggy]

Hillman is 1st team because he was here last season. Ball should have the starting spot locked up by the time the 2nd preseason game is over.

[OrangeHoof]

No way Ball can make up for all of Hillman's veteran experience ( /sarc )

[CrazyHorse]

Ideally I see Ball as the starter with Moreno the third down back and Hillman the change of pace back to give Montee a rest.

[Bosco]

Hillman is 1st team because he was here last season. Ball should have the starting spot locked up by the time the 2nd preseason game is over.

Pretty much. Hillman is the healthy and experienced guy at the right time. Obviously, he is not a starting running back in this league. I think Moreno will hold onto the starting job, assuming he can stay healthy this year. He's a better receiver and pass blocker than any other back on the roster (by a wide margin) and those traits are only going to be more critical now that we should be even more pass happy than in 2012.

[BroncoWave]

Lost in the other news of today...this is pretty damned interesting.

Eh, I don't think it's that interesting. Moreno is still recovering and Ball is just a rookie. Hillman is the only option left to be #1 at this point. You almost never see rookies given starting jobs this early. Assuming Ball is even halfway decent, he will likely assume the starting spot by week 1.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't think we'll be more pass happy this season. We drafted Ball for a reason, and we also know we need to keep a balanced offense consdering how things were trashed in the playoffs when Moreno got inured (again).

We also don't know that Moreno is the best pass blocker (by far) since Ball hasn't been on the field.

[Bosco]

I don't think we'll be more pass happy this season. We drafted Ball for a reason, and we also know we need to keep a balanced offense consdering how things were trashed in the playoffs when Moreno got inured (again).

We also don't know that Moreno is the best pass blocker (by far) since Ball hasn't been on the field.

Oh I definitely think we'll be more pass happy now. We've got two (three, depending on how you see Decker) elite receivers now, along with capable tight ends and two good receiving backs, along with a line that is generally better at pass than run blocking. We had a 56/44 pass run split last year and with Manning becoming more comfortable and taking more control of the offense as well, I'd be surprised if we finished under a 60/40.

Ball was a serviceable at best blocker in college, so unless he has made some incredible improvements in that area (unlikely) he'll still cede significant ground to Moreno there.

[cmc0605]

Pass will rule the day, but when we run, season should start with Knowshon (if healthy) as starter, as he was super-productive last season when Willis went down, proved himself to the naysayers (who were always wrong to begin with)...then see how Montee/Hillman grind it out in camp. I suspect Montee will surpass them both eventually, and I'm still skeptical of Hillman as a feature back.

[ShaneFalco]

cant wait to see Hillmans speed on draw plays after passes to thomas, decker, welker

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Eddie Mac is on with Vic now on XML. Vic ask Eddie who would be the Broncos' starting running back, and Eddie stated that he feels it will be running back by committee, and Eddie also stated that Knowshon is the best running back on the team.

[TXBRONC]

I respect McCaffery's opinion but facts are fact to date Hillman has been at the top of depth chart from OTAs to this point in the preseason. Sure it could still change but it hasn't yet. So in other words Moreno can't hold onto what he does not have. He might overtake the other two backs but missing opportunities like he did this past week in practice and the game does not help his cause.

[BroncoWave]

I respect McCaffery's opinion but facts are fact to date Hillman has been at the top of depth chart from OTAs to this point in the preseason. Sure it could still change but it hasn't yet. So in other words Moreno can't hold onto what he does not have. He might overtake the other two backs but missing opportunities like he did this past week in practice and the game does not help his cause.

I don't know that missing opportunities in practice hurts Moreno as much as it would Ball or Hillman. At this point, we know what we have in Moreno and he knows the offense. I'm not sure missing a little camp/preseason will change any of that. Heck, it might even be good for him to miss some camp and preseason games if it keeps his body fresh.

Ball and Hillman are the ones who I think need this camp and preseason to really solidify themselves as they are newer and have more to learn.

I think Eddie Mac could be spot on that Moreno could be the best back this season though. Obviously he has to stay healthy, but I think some people forget how good he was at the end of last season. That's a level of play we've never seen from Hillman and it's still to early to know when Ball will get up to full speed.

[CoachChaz]

Hillman should be nothing more than a #3. Until he shows this great speed and quickness he's supposed to have...or gains another 20 pounds...he shouldnt be a #1 and barely a #2

[TXBRONC]

I don't know that missing opportunities in practice hurts Moreno as much as it would Ball or Hillman. At this point, we know what we have in Moreno and he knows the offense. I'm not sure missing a little camp/preseason will change any of that. Heck, it might even be good for him to miss some camp and preseason games if it keeps his body fresh.

Ball and Hillman are the ones who I think need this camp and preseason to really solidify themselves as they are newer and have more to learn.

I think Eddie Mac could be spot on that Moreno could be the best back this season though. Obviously he has to stay healthy, but I think some people forget how good he was at the end of last season. That's a level of play we've never seen from Hillman and it's still to early to know when Ball will get up to full speed.

No that's what I've seen from Fox if a player is going start he's going have to show it on the field. If you're trying to say Fox is holding him back just to keep him fresh so he can be the starter week one I don't buy it. That is not how Fox has gone about his business of managing the roster. Where you're not sure it matters I am sure it does matter because of how Fox has done things the last two years. What you're suggesting is 180 degrees different than how he has acted in the past.

I doubt anyone is forgetting that Moreno stepped up when he returned to the starting line up. But that doesn't matter, I'm sure Fox remembers and yet from OTAs to the present Moreno hasn't been the first runningback up. To make the argument that Fox is just trying to keep Moreno you have to set aside history.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Last night, Vic ask Eddie Mac about Moreno not playing, and Eddie said that the Broncos know what they have in Moreno

[BroncoWave]

No that's what I've seen from Fox if a player is going start he's going have to show it on the field. If you're trying to say Fox is holding him back just to keep him fresh so he can be the starter week one I don't buy it. That is not how Fox has gone about his business of managing the roster. Where you're not sure it matters I am sure it does matter because of how Fox has done things the last two years. What you're suggesting is 180 degrees different than how he has acted in the past.

I doubt anyone is forgetting that Moreno stepped up when he returned to the starting line up. But that doesn't matter, I'm sure Fox remembers and yet from OTAs to the present Moreno hasn't been the first runningback up. To make the argument that Fox is just trying to keep Moreno you have to set aside history.

I absolutely did not claim that Fox is holding back Moreno to keep him fresh. I said that the fact that he has missed practices might wind up being a good thing for him as it could keep him fresh. Big difference there. I'm simply saying it's not AS important to see alot of Moreno in camp and in preseason because the coaches already know way more about what he can offer than they do about Hillman and Ball. Since those two guys are not established yet, they need this time to show the coaches what they can do. I'm not saying that Moreno doesn't need that at all, just that he doesn't need it as much as those two guys.

I fully realize where Moreno is on the depth chart as well. Just stating that in my opinion, he could very well be our best back this season. Based on Carol's last post, Eddie Mac is basically saying the same thing. The Broncos already know what they have in Moreno. A few practices probably isn't changing that.

All I know is based on why my eyes have told me seeing out 3 backs on the field, Moreno is our best one at that point. I'm not saying Fox thinks Moreno is our best back and is just holding him out for rest, I'm just saying that I think he is our best back. I realize the depth chart doesn't support my opinion, but I'm just basing it on what I've seen on the field.

[Chef Zambini]

I hope we run the ball more, the defense will need the rest.


the best pass blocker, blitz recognizer will get the most playing time, however. end of story.
protecting PFM is job one for ANYONE that lines up next to him in the backfield.
period.

[TXBRONC]

Last night, Vic ask Eddie Mac about Moreno not playing, and Eddie said that the Broncos know what they have in Moreno

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at? Yes they know what they have in Moreno but it's still important for him practice.

[BroncoWave]

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at? Yes they know what they have in Moreno but it's still important for him practice.

I don't think anyone is saying it's not as important for him to practice. I think all anyone is saying is that it's more important for the newer guys (Hillman, Ball) to get as many reps as possible to get up to speed and to let the coaches see what they can do. Yet, it's important for Moreno to practice, but since the coaches already know what he can do and since he already knows the offense, it's not as vital that he get these reps now as it is for Hillman or Ball. Not saying it's not important, just not as important.

[Chef Zambini]

i don't think anyone is saying it's not as important for him to practice. I think all anyone is saying is that it's more important for the newer guys (hillman, ball) to get as many reps as possible to get up to speed and to let the coaches see what they can do. Yet, it's important for moreno to practice, but since the coaches already know what he can do and since he already knows the offense, it's not as vital that he get these reps now as it is for hillman or ball. Not saying it's not important, just not as important.bingo !

[TXBRONC]

I don't think anyone is saying it's not as important for him to practice. I think all anyone is saying is that it's more important for the newer guys (Hillman, Ball) to get as many reps as possible to get up to speed and to let the coaches see what they can do. Yet, it's important for Moreno to practice, but since the coaches already know what he can do and since he already knows the offense, it's not as vital that he get these reps now as it is for Hillman or Ball. Not saying it's not important, just not as important.

I don't think so. Manning knows the offense inside and out yet it's still important for him to get the reps. In fact he's said similar things in the past and before you go to "well he's the starting quarterback and needs to working on timing" same holds true for runningbacks. Also if Fox sees him as the runningback he will get the work.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at? Yes they know what they have in Moreno but it's still important for him practice.

I am NOT trying to get at anything. I posted what Eddie said. Moreno has been held out of practice because of a bruised right knee.


Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno did not participate on Wednesday due to a bruised right knee.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_23861131/knowshon-moreno-out-broncos-practice-chris-kuper-back

[BroncoWave]

I don't think so. Manning knows the offense inside and out yet it's still important for him to get the reps. In fact he's said similar things in the past and before you go to "well he's the starting quarterback and needs to working on timing" same holds true for runningbacks. Also if Fox sees him as the runningback he will get the work.

Once again, no one is saying it's not important for Moreno to get reps.

[TXBRONC]

I am NOT trying to get at anything. I posted what Eddie said. Moreno has been held out of practice because of a bruised right knee.


http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_23861131/knowshon-moreno-out-broncos-practice-chris-kuper-back

Every person who posts has resason for do so. So yes you are trying to get at something and that's fine. There is no reason for you to get defensive.

[tubby]

Moreno is too fragile to practice let alone play in preseason games. Save him for the games matter.

[dogfish]

Hillman should be nothing more than a #3. Until he shows this great speed and quickness he's supposed to have...or gains another 20 pounds...he shouldnt be a #1 and barely a #2

the next yard he gains after contact will be the first. . .

[slim]

I actually thought he ran pretty hard this past week, but he just isn't strong enough to get it done. But I can't see him holding onto the job after the two fumbles.

[TXBRONC]

I actually thought he ran pretty hard this past week, but he just isn't strong enough to get it done. But I can't see him holding onto the job after the two fumbles.

With Shanahan yeah he would be demoted I don't what will happen Fox. If it were the regular season then Fox has already set the precedent.


Btw didn't you say that once you fumbled two ham sandwichs?

[slim]

With Shanahan yeah he would be demoted I don't what will happen Fox. If it were the regular season then Fox has already set the precedent.


Btw didn't you say that once you fumbled two ham sandwichs?

I usually end up with most of my sammich on my shirt, but this isn't about me.

[TXBRONC]

I usually end up with most of my sammich on my shirt, but this isn't about me.

Just a point of reference. Fumbling can happen to anyone.

Anyway, I agree I thought he played pretty well on Saturday but he make mistakes like that without it eventually costing him no matter how well he plays.

[Bosco]

- Hillman is the starter now because he was the healthy one with a year of seniority over Montee Ball. That's pretty much how Fox has always managed his depth chart. Veterans first.

- About zero chance Hillman is the starter come regular season. He's simply too small and slight in the frame to hold up as a starter in the NFL. His future in this league is going to be as a 3rd down change of pace back.

- Montee Ball hasn't impressed me much at all.

- Still think Moreno is the starter come day one. He's a far, far better receiver and pass blocker than both Ball and Hillman and when healthy he's a good inside/outside runner as we saw last year.

[slim]

I agree. It will probably be Moreno.

Buff is gonna be pissed.

[TXBRONC]

I agree. It will probably be Moreno.

Buff is gonna be pissed.

Maybe. But at this point it doesn't look that way.

[slim]

Maybe. But at this point it doesn't look that way.

Based on what? Hillman can't do the job and Ball isn't ready. Kind of limits the options.

[TXBRONC]

Based on what? Hillman can't do the job and Ball isn't ready. Kind of limits the options.

Based on the fact that he's still in the front of the pack. Moreno is not a very good inside runner and doesn't have enough speed to get around the corner on a consistent basis.

[slim]

Based on the fact that he's still in the front of the pack. Moreno is not a very good inside runner and doesn't have enough speed to get around the corner on a consistent basis.

Well, let's wait until Moreno is healthy and then see what the depth chart looks like.

[broncohead]

I think the reason Moreno hasn't really been given the chance to start or take the primary starting job is because of his durability issues. We know what we have in him and he serves great as a backup/3rd down back. I'm sure the coaches are thinking if he starts its only a matter of time before he gets hurt.

[CoachChaz]

I think the reason Moreno hasn't really been given the chance to start or take the primary starting job is because of his durability issues. We know what we have in him and he serves great as a backup/3rd down back. I'm sure the coaches are thinking if he starts its only a matter of time before he gets hurt.

Maybe by that time, Anderson will be able to come back. Still gonna say he is the best back on the roster until HE proves me wrong

[TXBRONC]

Well, let's wait until Moreno is healthy and then see what the depth chart looks like.

He's been a full participant at camp until last week.

[slim]

He's been a full participant at camp until last week.

Yeah and last week Hillman fumbled twice and Montee almost got Peyton killed. Do you suppose the coaches noticed?

[TXBRONC]

Yeah and last week Hillman fumbled twice and Montee almost got Peyton killed. Do you suppose the coaches noticed?

I'm sure he did. When did Ball blow a blocking assignment? I've watched all of the first half but I recall him missing a blocking assignment. The one time that remember Manning getting pancaked was a defender coming right up the middle which looked more like an error by the interior offensive line.

[Bosco]

Based on the fact that he's still in the front of the pack. Pretty sure I just explained that one.


Moreno is not a very good inside runner and doesn't have enough speed to get around the corner on a consistent basis. Not even close to correct. Moreno is actually a rather talented inside runner (not to be confused with power back, there is a difference) and ran a 4.5 forty at the combine. That's plenty fast enough to run outside.

[slim]

I'm sure he did. When did Ball blow a blocking assignment? I've watched all of the first half but I recall him missing a blocking assignment. The one time that remember Manning getting pancaked was a defender coming right up the middle which looked more like an error by the interior offensive line.

That's not the way I remember it. I thought it was on Ball. I only watched it once, though. So I could be wrong.

[TXBRONC]

That's not the way I remember it. I thought it was on Ball. I only watched it once, though. So I could be wrong.

You could be right. I would need to watch it again myself to refresh my memory.

[BroncoWave]

I definitely trust Moreno to start week 1 over the other two guys right now. Even if he does get hurt at some point, Ball will likely be much more ready to play then than he was in week 1. I don't think Hillman will ever be anything more than a 3rd down back. If he's our starting RB this season, our running game is in trouble.

[tomjonesrocks]

I am not giving up on Ball, but it is sucking that there's so much buzz about what Lacy's doing. 2 months ago Ball was TD reincarnated. Mr. fantasy football sleeper pick. Now...

I really hope we don't have to crawl back to "Sauced" hat-in-hand AGAIN this season. Even if he does well, he's good for 6 weeks. That doesn't get it done--even though last season he actually looked like a real NFL RB. Before going out. Again.

[BroncoWave]

These are the games missed by injury per season for Moreno in his career: 0, 3, 9, 0. So other than 1 season, he has never missed more than 3 games due to injury. I think some people are really overstating the "he will just get hurt after 6 games" angle.

[Bosco]

These are the games missed by injury per season for Moreno in his career: 0, 3, 9, 0. So other than 1 season, he has never missed more than 3 games due to injury. I think some people are really overstating the "he will just get hurt after 6 games" angle.

Excellent post.

I also think that alot of his troubles were due to our training regime. Hopefully the new style reduces soft tissue injuries across the entire roster.

[Simple Jaded]

I don't know which Slowshon Bosco has been watching but most of his troubles are due to the fact that he's just not that good.

[Jsteve01]

These are the games missed by injury per season for Moreno in his career: 0, 3, 9, 0. So other than 1 season, he has never missed more than 3 games due to injury. I think some people are really overstating the "he will just get hurt after 6 games" angle. the 0 stat for games missed last year is rather misleading. He was inactive for the first 8 games last year and guess what? He was coming off injury

[Jsteve01]

These are the games missed by injury per season for Moreno in his career: 0, 3, 9, 0. So other than 1 season, he has never missed more than 3 games due to injury. I think some people are really overstating the "he will just get hurt after 6 games" angle. the 0 stat for games missed last year is rather misleading. He was inactive for the first 8 games last year and guess what? He was coming off injurysorry games 3-10 and in the game that git him benched he averaged .7 ypc. Pretty good right oh and never mind the fumble vs Atlanta on his third carry lol

[TXBRONC]

the 0 stat for games missed last year is rather misleading. He was inactive for the first 8 games last year and guess what? He was coming off injury

Last year is misleading he didn't play in but nine games which includes the playoff loss to the Ravens. In loss to the Raven he was injuried by about the half way point in the 2nd quarter.

[TXBRONC]

I don't know which Slowshon Bosco has been watching but most of his troubles are due to the fact that he's just not that good.

Oh but he ran 4.5 in the 40 at the combine. It's not like other player have had fast combine but are slow once their pads. He can't consistently get to the corner nor is he very good at running between tackles.

[BroncoWave]

If you want to say last season was misleading, that's fine, we'll turn it around. For the people saying "he won't last 6 games", he has played in 16, 13, 7, and 8 games in his career. That's an average of 11 games played per season. While still not great, it's almost twice as many games as some seem to think he is able to play without getting hurt.

[TXBRONC]

If you want to say last season was misleading, that's fine, we'll turn it around. For the people saying "he won't last 6 games", he has played in 16, 13, 7, and 8 games in his career. That's an average of 11 games played per season. While still not great, it's almost twice as many games as some seem to think he is able to play without getting hurt.

So someone use a little hyperbole big deal. The point is he's not confident Moreno can make it the full season. I can turn your 11 games around as well. If only averages 11 games per year that means he's missing on average he's missing a little more 1/4 of his season every year. In a 16 games season that's a lot games to miss. Now why don't you just let it be. Please don't try tell me if he misses four games this year it's no big deal because it is.

[BroncoWave]

So someone use a little hyperbole big deal. The point is he's not confident Moreno can make it the full season. I can turn your 11 games around as well. If only averages 11 games per year that means he's missing on average he's missing a little more 1/4 of his season every year. In a 16 games season that's a lot games to miss. Now why don't you just let it be. Please don't try tell me if he misses four games this year it's no big deal because it is.

If he misses more than 4 games, sure, it would be a big deal. I'm just not as convinced that is going to happen as some others are. Especially since we will likely be using a RBBC anyway. I doubt he gets more than 15-20 touches a game (if that), so it's not like he will be being worked heavily.

[Ravage!!!]

If he misses more than 4 games, sure, it would be a big deal. I'm just not as convinced that is going to happen as some others are. Especially since we will likely be using a RBBC anyway. I doubt he gets more than 15-20 touches a game (if that), so it's not like he will be being worked heavily.

We've used the RBBC system since he's been in Denver. He was drafted to be the horse, so moving to the RBBC was because he can't stay healthy. Ironically, your solution to his injury problem is a result of his injury problem. Now we once again drafted a kid that is meant to be the horse, and a kid that didn't miss time due to injury despite having an UNBELIEVABLE number of carries throughout college. I promise you that was a factor.

Of course Moreno will miss games, again, due to injury. But missing 4 games a year IS a big chunk, and is a big deal. Just asVon Miller missing 6 games is a BIG chunk of the season. I guess the difference is, we know Von is going to miss the first 6 games, and we never know when Moreno is going to be healthy (yes, I said that correctly to make apoint).

[TXBRONC]

If he misses more than 4 games, sure, it would be a big deal. I'm just not as convinced that is going to happen as some others are. Especially since we will likely be using a RBBC anyway. I doubt he gets more than 15-20 touches a game (if that), so it's not like he will be being worked heavily.

So it has to be more than four game for it to be a big deal? No, if he misses four games that is big deal because is a quarter of the season. I don't care if you're not convinced. The RBBC arguement doesn't work because we have been doing that since Fox got to Denver. Did rbbc prevent him from tearing his acl? Last I checked it didn't. We ran it last year and was still injuried in the playoff game. Btw here's what he's was averaging when he torn his acl in 2011 it was 5.3 carries but hey there's no way he could get hurt because it's rbbc right? Oh and in 2011 McGaghee averaged 17 carries per game so don't even attempt to tell me it wasn't rbbc especially if you're going to tell me he's only going to get 15-20 carries per game. I bet you're also going tell me you meant total touches as in pass receptions but you know we're carries because that's the place where he stands the greatest chance of getting nicked up.

[BroncoWave]

We've used the RBBC system since he's been in Denver. He was drafted to be the horse, so moving to the RBBC was because he can't stay healthy. Ironically, your solution to his injury problem is a result of his injury problem. Now we once again drafted a kid that is meant to be the horse, and a kid that didn't miss time due to injury despite having an UNBELIEVABLE number of carries throughout college. I promise you that was a factor.

Of course Moreno will miss games, again, due to injury. But missing 4 games a year IS a big chunk, and is a big deal. Just asVon Miller missing 6 games is a BIG chunk of the season. I guess the difference is, we know Von is going to miss the first 6 games, and we never know when Moreno is going to be healthy (yes, I said that correctly to make apoint).

There is no guarantee this will happen. He has played all 16 games before.

[BroncoWave]

So has to be more than four game for it to be a big deal? No, if he misses four games that is big deal because is a quarter of the season. I don't care if you're not convinced. The RBBC arguement doesn't work we been doing that Fox got to Denver. Did rbbc prevent him from tearing his acl? Last I checked it didn't. We ran it last year and was still injuried in the playoff game. Btw here's what he's was averaging when he torn his acl in 2011 it was 5.3 carries but hey there's no way he could get hurt because it's rbbc right? Oh in 2011 McGaghee averaged

Tearing an ACL really doesn't have anything to do with being injury prone. That is just a freak injury that can happen to anyone if their knee gets hit the wrong way. He's been unfortunate to have it happen more than once, but I don't think that makes him injury prone, just unlucky. Terrell Davis wasn't injury prone but his career was ruined by ACL injuries. It's one of those things you can't really prevent.

[Ravage!!!]

There is no guarantee this will happen. He has played all 16 games before.

No guarantees, but considering his career thus far, I feel the odds are in my favor.

[BroncoWave]

No guarantees, but considering his career thus far, I feel the odds are in my favor.

Given the nature of the running back position the odds are probably in your favor. That's one of the toughest positions to stay healthy at for all 16 games.

[Ravage!!!]

Moreno will not get 15-20 a game. Nooo way.


But I am excited to see hwo many more plays per game we actually run now that we have an up-paced offense.

[Ravage!!!]

Given the nature of the running back position the odds are probably in your favor. That's one of the toughest positions to stay healthy at for all 16 games.

Very true. Especially when you are talking about a fragile RB.

[BroncoWave]

Moreno will not get 15-20 a game. Nooo way.


But I am excited to see hwo many more plays per game we actually run now that we have an up-paced offense.

That was the higher end of what I think he could get. And that's touches, not carries. I think he will get close to that many touches early in the season but once Ball figures it out, I think he will get the main load. At this point I don't think Ball is ready and I don't trust Hillman at all. Like it or not, Moreno looks like our best RB at this point in time. Ball obviously projects to be better, it's just a matter of when he reaches that level.

[Ravage!!!]

That was the higher end of what I think he could get. And that's touches, not carries. I think he will get close to that many touches early in the season but once Ball figures it out, I think he will get the main load. At this point I don't think Ball is ready and I don't trust Hillman at all. Like it or not, Moreno looks like our best RB at this point in time. Ball obviously projects to be better, it's just a matter of when he reaches that level.

Moreno is definitely the guy we will have on the field during passing downs, for now. He's the one that is the better blocker of the 3...until Ball learns better Pass Pro. I like Hillman's speed MUCH more than the slow Moreno. But although Moreno is a good blocker, I still don't think he gets 20 touches. That's a lot for a guy that probably won't be asked to carry between the tackles. He just doesn't have the speed to use like a guy like Sproles or Bush. Which is why we drafted Hillman.

I agree, though. As of right now Moreno is the best pass pro back we have, and that will put him on the field.

[TXBRONC]

Tearing an ACL really doesn't have anything to do with being injury prone. That is just a freak injury that can happen to anyone if their knee gets hit the wrong way. He's been unfortunate to have it happen more than once, but I don't think that makes him injury prone, just unlucky. Terrell Davis wasn't injury prone but his career was ruined by ACL injuries. It's one of those things you can't really prevent.

What the hell do think injury prone means? It means it's happened more than one freakish time. At the same you make the arguement that if he carries the only 15 to 20 times he'll be fine that obviously not true because being in rbbc hasn't prevented him get hurt enough miss practice or games, or both.

[TXBRONC]

That was the higher end of what I think he could get. And that's touches, not carries. I think he will get close to that many touches early in the season but once Ball figures it out, I think he will get the main load. At this point I don't think Ball is ready and I don't trust Hillman at all. Like it or not, Moreno looks like our best RB at this point in time. Ball obviously projects to be better, it's just a matter of when he reaches that level.

I knew you were going pull that one. Oh it's touches not just carries when you know full freaking well we're talking rushing attempts. You can't even stick to arguement you to try worm your way out of it with well I said touches. Rushing attempt alone will be around 15 to 18 if he's starting running back.

[TXBRONC]

There is no guarantee this will happen. He has played all 16 games before.


Once.

[silkamilkamonico]

ball is really struggling with pass protection and they wont consider him between the 20s until that is figured out.

im prolly the only one who actually really likes hillmans potential thebest but if he cant protect the ball he aint goona play.

moreno imo is our best back right now and i like him but i dont think hes going to get 15 carries a game - they willbe spread out.

the unfortunate aspect is they have give hillman and ball ever chance and want them to be the man amd neigher has stepped up.

[Ravage!!!]

the unfortunate aspect is they have give hillman and ball ever chance and want them to be the man amd neigher has stepped up.

Silk, you ok? It reads as if you had a stroke about the end of this sentence, and I'm kinda concerned.

[Ravage!!!]

ball is really struggling with pass protection and they wont consider him between the 20s until that is figured out.

im prolly the only one who actually really likes hillmans potential thebest but if he cant protect the ball he aint goona play.

moreno imo is our best back right now and i like him but i dont think hes going to get 15 carries a game - they willbe spread out.

the unfortunate aspect is they have give hillman and ball ever chance and want them to be the man amd neigher has stepped up.

I don't know. I don't think that neither has stepped up. Yes, they have missed some pass blocks, but other than that, I think they have looked ok carrying the ball. Right now, in pre-season, the defenses just have huge advantages. Pass protection is huge for ANY RB, and they both need to get better without doubt. But other than Pass Pro, Moreno doesn't bring anything to the table that the other two dont'. Which is why I don't see Moreno getting 15+ touches when Ball will definitely get his touches and carries, and it's very obvious that they want to put the ball into Hillman's hands when they can.

I think Hillman will be the main back that gets the most yardage early in the season...... unless he fumbles to many times early.

[TXBRONC]

ball is really struggling with pass protection and they wont consider him between the 20s until that is figured out.

im prolly the only one who actually really likes hillmans potential thebest but if he cant protect the ball he aint goona play.

moreno imo is our best back right now and i like him but i dont think hes going to get 15 carries a game - they willbe spread out.

the unfortunate aspect is they have give hillman and ball ever chance and want them to be the man amd neigher has stepped up.

M. Ball did a lot better running the ball against Seattle then he did the week before. Against the Seahawhs he averaged 4.7 yards per carry.

[TXBRONC]

I don't know. I don't think that neither has stepped up. Yes, they have missed some pass blocks, but other than that, I think they have looked ok carrying the ball. Right now, in pre-season, the defenses just have huge advantages. Pass protection is huge for ANY RB, and they both need to get better without doubt. But other than Pass Pro, Moreno doesn't bring anything to the table that the other two dont'. Which is why I don't see Moreno getting 15+ touches when Ball will definitely get his touches and carries, and it's very obvious that they want to put the ball into Hillman's hands when they can.

I think Hillman will be the main back that gets the most yardage early in the season...... unless he fumbles to many times early.

Ball has total of 11 carries. Against Seattle on just six carries he average 4.7 yards.

[silkamilkamonico]

yes im really sick was supposed to say neither have stepped up or ran away with it.

ball has looked good with the ball, but if he cannot protect manning he isnt going to play.

might take ball some time yo figure that out he didnt do alot of it in college

[dogfish]

looks to me like it's almost guaranteed to be a true RBBC, at least to start the season. . .

hillman is a situational back at best, has zero power, and he seems to have major ball security issues. . . montee ball doesn't function well in the passing game at this point, and we're a pass-first offense. . . knowshon breaks if you give him too many carries, and he's not exactly a dynamic performer. . .

it'll be interesting to see what we do with cj anderson when cutdowns happen. . . if moreno is still dinged up when the season starts-- or if the run game can't get it in gear early on-- i wouldn't be all that surprised if we brought mcgahee back. . .

[BroncoWave]

I knew you were going pull that one. Oh it's touches not just carries when you know full freaking well we're talking rushing attempts. You can't even stick to arguement you to try worm your way out of it with well I said touches. Rushing attempt alone will be around 15 to 18 if he's starting running back.

What in the hell are you talking about? What am I trying to worm out of? Do you want to see my exact quote again?

I said "I doubt he gets more than 15-20 touches a game (if that), so it's not like he will be being worked heavily."

So first of all, I did say the word touches and I said it because I was referring to catches plus carries. And if you will look at how I worded it, I said I doubt he gets that many touches if he even gets that. Hence why I said I don't think his injury risk is high, because that's not too many touches to get per game.

And if you look at Rav's response, he also replied in terms of touches. You seem to be the only one who thinks we are only talking about carries...

[BroncoWave]

What the hell do think injury prone means? It means it's happened more than one freakish time. At the same you make the arguement that if he carries the only 15 to 20 times he'll be fine that obviously not true because being in rbbc hasn't prevented him get hurt enough miss practice or games, or both.

So then by your logic, Terrell Davis was injury prone. I mean, he did have more than one freakish injury. I guess Adrian Peterson is injury prone too. He had some big injuries in college and tore an ACL in the NFL.

[Bosco]

I don't know which Slowshon Bosco has been watching but most of his troubles are due to the fact that he's just not that good.

I was watching the Knowshon that put up nearly 1000 rushing yards his rookie year despite getting hurt in the preseason, splitting time with Buckhalter, and running behind a line that featured the corpses of Ben Hamilton and Casey Wiegmann along with whatever scrub we trotted out to replace Ryan Harris. I was also watching the Knowshon that put up almost 800 yards in 2010 despite getting hurt again, and playing behind an even worse offensive line in a very pass happy offense. I was watching the Knowshon that came off the bench last year and almost almost single-handedly gave our running game a spark and allowed us to open our offense. The same Knowshon that two different coaching staffs have made integral parts of their offense.

[Bosco]

What the hell do think injury prone means? It means it's happened more than one freakish time. At the same you make the arguement that if he carries the only 15 to 20 times he'll be fine that obviously not true because being in rbbc hasn't prevented him get hurt enough miss practice or games, or both.

The term "injury prone" in the context of football is generally accepted as someone who has degenerative/weakening issues of the soft tissues and ligaments leading to a high susceptibility to injury. To my knowledge, Knowshon has never been diagnosed with any sort of condition along those lines. He was also very healthy playing in the SEC, leading me to believe that his injury issues are more to do with the outdated training regimen used by the Broncos and Knowshon's experimenting with Crossfit, which is a very dangerous workout program and very stressful on joints and ligaments.

[TXBRONC]

What in the hell are you talking about? What am I trying to worm out of? Do you want to see my exact quote again?

I said "I doubt he gets more than 15-20 touches a game (if that), so it's not like he will be being worked heavily."

So first of all, I did say the word touches and I said it because I was referring to catches plus carries. And if you will look at how I worded it, I said I doubt he gets that many touches if he even gets that. Hence why I said I don't think his injury risk is high, because that's not too many touches to get per game.

And if you look at Rav's response, he also replied in terms of touches. You seem to be the only one who thinks we are only talking about carries...

So you didn't comprehend that I was talking about carrying the football even though I made clear? No Rav understood it as rushing attempts then you went back and I meant total touches. I also put in one of my previous posts that he would average around 15 carries if he's the starter come week one.

[underrated29]

It is bittersweet music to my ears hearing all of you talk about wanting knowshon to play....


Honestly, imo it is not that ball is not showing a lot its more that he just hasnt had that much rep. For ex. if he was taking the lions share of carries and reps in camp and with the starters I believe he would be a lot further along then he is now. Instead he is getting half of that experience. His running is coming along, its just his pass pro that is not coming along so well.

I still suspect ball will be goalline starter as well as RB1B. I also suspect he will be the full fledged starter sooner than later. I do not trust hillman to run hard. Never have and not sure I see that he will. He looks great compared to last year, but I do not it enough yet.

[TXBRONC]

looks to me like it's almost guaranteed to be a true RBBC, at least to start the season. . .

hillman is a situational back at best, has zero power, and he seems to have major ball security issues. . . montee ball doesn't function well in the passing game at this point, and we're a pass-first offense. . . knowshon breaks if you give him too many carries, and he's not exactly a dynamic performer. . .

it'll be interesting to see what we do with cj anderson when cutdowns happen. . . if moreno is still dinged up when the season starts-- or if the run game can't get it in gear early on-- i wouldn't be all that surprised if we brought mcgahee back. . .

That has crossed mind if the running game can't that they might bring back McGahee.

[BroncoWave]

So you didn't comprehend that I was talking about carrying the football even though I made clear. No Rav understood it as rushing attempts then you went back and I meant total touches. I also put in one of my previous posts that he would average around 15 carries if he's the starter come week one.

The reason I said I meant total touches is because I SAID total touches. I never said anything about only rushing attempts. Besides, if you think he would get 15 carries a game, then you are agreeing with me that somewhere around 20 touches a game is what he would get. I'm not really sure why you are haggling over touches/carries when we are basically saying the exact same thing.

[BroncoWave]

It is bittersweet music to my ears hearing all of you talk about wanting knowshon to play....


Honestly, imo it is not that ball is not showing a lot its more that he just hasnt had that much rep. For ex. if he was taking the lions share of carries and reps in camp and with the starters I believe he would be a lot further along then he is now. Instead he is getting half of that experience. His running is coming along, its just his pass pro that is not coming along so well.

I still suspect ball will be goalline starter as well as RB1B. I also suspect he will be the full fledged starter sooner than later. I do not trust hillman to run hard. Never have and not sure I see that he will. He looks great compared to last year, but I do not it enough yet.

I agree with all of this. Ball will definitely get most of the carries eventually if he progresses like he should. I can't see Hillman being anything more than a 3rd down back. And given that Moreno is a better pass blocker, Hillman probably won't see many 3rd down plays anyway. Wouldn't shock me to see it eventually be 80/20 on first and second down carries between Ball and Hillman with Moreno getting a lot of the 3rd down work.

[TXBRONC]

The reason I said I meant total touches is because I SAID total touches. I never said anything about only rushing attempts. Besides, if you think he would get 15 carries a game, then you are agreeing with me that somewhere around 20 touches a game is what he would get. I'm not really sure why you are haggling over touches/carries when we are basically saying the exact same thing.

You did not say total touches not until a later post. No we're not talking about the same thing. I was talking about rushing attempts. I said it in the last three posts. Fully expect you'll have the word because you're incapable of letting it go.

[Ravage!!!]

The term "injury prone" in the context of football is generally accepted as someone who has degenerative/weakening issues of the soft tissues and ligaments leading to a high susceptibility to injury. To my knowledge, Knowshon has never been diagnosed with any sort of condition along those lines. He was also very healthy playing in the SEC, leading me to believe that his injury issues are more to do with the outdated training regimen used by the Broncos and Knowshon's experimenting with Crossfit, which is a very dangerous workout program and very stressful on joints and ligaments.

There is not a single sentence in this post except "To my knowledge, Knowshon has never been diagnosed with any sort of condition along those lines."

Injury prone is referred to a player that constantly gets hurt... PERIOD. I don't think I have EVER heard someone TRY to break it down to "degenerative/weakening of the soft tissue." That's almost funny.

Then there is the blaming of some "out dated" training regiman..... :lol: So now Knowshon's inability to run well in the NFL is first the OL's fault, then the trainers fault, and NONE of it has to do with the fact that Moreno is just not very good in the NFL.

As far as "The same Knowshon that two different coaching staffs have made integral parts of their offense." Those would be the same coaching staffs that have drafted players to replace him, yes? Seems the ones that actually see him play, are the same ones that are taking measures to move him out.

[TXBRONC]

There is not a single sentence in this post except "To my knowledge, Knowshon has never been diagnosed with any sort of condition along those lines."

Injury prone is referred to a player that constantly gets hurt... PERIOD. I don't think I have EVER heard someone TRY to break it down to "degenerative/weakening of the soft tissue." That's almost funny.

Then there is the blaming of some "out dated" training regiman..... :lol: So now Knowshon's inability to run well in the NFL is first the OL's fault, then the trainers fault, and NONE of it has to do with the fact that Moreno is just not very good in the NFL.

As far as "The same Knowshon that two different coaching staffs have made integral parts of their offense." Those would be the same coaching staffs that have drafted players to replace him, yes? Seems the ones that actually see him play, are the same ones that are taking measures to move him out.

I've never heard injury prone defined that way that why I didn't responded.

[BroncoWave]

You did not say total touches not until a later post. No we're not talking about the same thing. I was talking about rushing attempts. I said it in the last three posts. Fully expect you'll have the word because you're incapable of letting it go.

You're the one who is not letting it go. And since all you are doing right now is being the douchebag that you LOVE to accuse me of being, this conversation is over. You know it's funny, since I started with my new name, you are pretty much the only person I have gotten into it with, and it's been started by you every time. I think the time has come to add the first name to my ignore list.

[dogfish]

Injury prone is referred to a player that constantly gets hurt... PERIOD. I don't think I have EVER heard someone TRY to break it down to "degenerative/weakening of the soft tissue." That's almost funny.


seriously, that's hilarious. . . "injury-prone" is now an official medical diagnosis??

:spit: :rofl: :pound:


his contention about conditioning wasn't wrong, though. . . moreno was clearly in much better shape last year. . . he finished drives instead of tapping out after three plays, and i never saw him on the sideline gasping for air. . . and maybe it was just luck, but we didn't have the same flurry of groin pulls that we'd been getting in past years. . . i absolutely think the new S+C staff is night and day better than the old clowns. . .

also, keep in mind that the FO cut willis over knowshon. . . granted, salary could be part of that, but i think scheme fit was as well. . . somebody has to catch the ball out of the backfield. . . if (IF!) he can stay healthy for any period of time, moreno will have a role to play this year. . .

[BroncoWave]

seriously, that's hilarious. . . "injury-prone" is now an official medical diagnosis??

:spit: :rofl: :pound:


his contention about conditioning wasn't wrong, though. . . moreno was clearly in much better shape last year. . . he finished drives instead of tapping out after three plays, and i never saw him on the sideline gasping for air. . . and maybe it was just luck, but we didn't have the same flurry of groin pulls that we'd been getting in past years. . . i absolutely think the new S+C staff is night and day better than the old clowns. . .

also, keep in mind that the FO cut willis over knowshon. . . granted, salary could be part of that, but i think scheme fit was as well. . . somebody has to catch the ball out of the backfield. . . if (IF!) he can stay healthy for any period of time, moreno will have a role to play this year. . .

Drafting Ball probably had a little to do with it as well. Ball is more of an inside runner like Willis, so he became a bit more expendable. But yeah, Morneo definitely still has value in the passing game, and can run the ball a bit when we need it as well. And given that this is a contract year for him, we'll probably get his absolute best effort as well.

[TXBRONC]

seriously, that's hilarious. . . "injury-prone" is now an official medical diagnosis??

:spit: :rofl: :pound:


his contention about conditioning wasn't wrong, though. . . moreno was clearly in much better shape last year. . . he finished drives instead of tapping out after three plays, and i never saw him on the sideline gasping for air. . . and maybe it was just luck, but we didn't have the same flurry of groin pulls that we'd been getting in past years. . . i absolutely think the new S+C staff is night and day better than the old clowns. . .

also, keep in mind that the FO cut willis over knowshon. . . granted, salary could be part of that, but i think scheme fit was as well. . . somebody has to catch the ball out of the backfield. . . if (IF!) he can stay healthy for any period of time, moreno will have a role to play this year. . .

The only things I've ever heard is age, injury, and price tag is to the reasons why he Moreno was kept over McGahee.

And

Moreno is the best receiving back in the NFL.

Signed

Underrated29 :welcome:

[underrated29]

Thanks for thinking of my buddy!

[dogfish]

Thanks for thinking of my buddy!

who's your buddy, knowshon?

[TXBRONC]

who's your buddy, knowshon?

:lol:

[dogfish]

:lol:

yea, he's kind of a dope-- you have to be to love knowshon as much as he does. . . :laugh:


honestly though, i DO kinda think moreno has a chance to be a factor for us at some point this season. . .

[Bosco]

There is not a single sentence in this post except "To my knowledge, Knowshon has never been diagnosed with any sort of condition along those lines."

Injury prone is referred to a player that constantly gets hurt... PERIOD. I don't think I have EVER heard someone TRY to break it down to "degenerative/weakening of the soft tissue." That's almost funny.

Then there is the blaming of some "out dated" training regiman..... :lol: So now Knowshon's inability to run well in the NFL is first the OL's fault, then the trainers fault, and NONE of it has to do with the fact that Moreno is just not very good in the NFL.

As far as "The same Knowshon that two different coaching staffs have made integral parts of their offense." Those would be the same coaching staffs that have drafted players to replace him, yes? Seems the ones that actually see him play, are the same ones that are taking measures to move him out.

Before I get into this with you, I just have to ask. Do you have any formal education in health sciences, preferably sports medicine? I did, before I switched majors, and can tell you with absolute certainty that kinesiologists, sports physicians, trainers, and the like do in fact make that distinction.


seriously, that's hilarious. . . "injury-prone" is now an official medical diagnosis?? No, not at all. There are medical diagnoses that result in being "injury prone" though.


Recurrent such episodes may result in cumulative damage and eventually degenerative arthritis.

http://www.wosm.com/index.php/health-library/orthopaedic-conditions-and-treatments/127-anterior-cruciate-ligament-tear

For the record, I believe degenerative arthritis is what Terrell Davis suffered from after his 1999 injury and ultimately ended his career. Would have to double check though.


his contention about conditioning wasn't wrong, though. . . moreno was clearly in much better shape last year. . . he finished drives instead of tapping out after three plays, and i never saw him on the sideline gasping for air. . . and maybe it was just luck, but we didn't have the same flurry of groin pulls that we'd been getting in past years. . . i absolutely think the new S+C staff is night and day better than the old clowns. . . I was never very impressed with Tuten. He seemed very stuck in his ways and either couldn't/wouldn't adapt to advances in the field. The new training style is cutting edge though and I think we'll see the benefits.

[TXBRONC]

yea, he's kind of a dope-- you have to be to love knowshon as much as he does. . . :laugh:


honestly though, i DO kinda think moreno has a chance to be a factor for us at some point this season. . .

I don't know. The depth chart is set the same way it was when camp opened. This next game will probably cement the order for at least for the opening of the season.

[underrated29]

who's your buddy, knowshon?

i meant me, but yes, knowshon is my buddy too.

[dogfish]

I was never very impressed with Tuten. He seemed very stuck in his ways and either couldn't/wouldn't adapt to advances in the field. The new training style is cutting edge though and I think we'll see the benefits.

i was thrilled when we finally got rid of him-- i disliked him as much as chef did, and that's saying something. . .

[dogfish]

I don't know. The depth chart is set the same way it was when camp opened. This next game will probably cement the order for at least for the opening of the season.

that's why i said, "at some point". . .

i just can't see hillman keeping the top job very long-- he isn't built to handle a heavy workload, and he doesn't block well either. . . if he does remain the starter, i think it'll only be in a nominal fashion-- as in, he may be the back on the field for the first play, but no way i see him getting 45 or 50 snaps a game. . .

barring montee ball turning into a blocking animal out of nowhere, i really think it's RBBC this year. . . JMO. . . if any of those guys want to prove me wrong, i'm all for it. . .

[TXBRONC]

that's why i said, "at some point". . .

i just can't see hillman keeping the top job very long-- he isn't built to handle a heavy workload, and he doesn't block well either. . . if he does remain the starter, i think it'll only be in a nominal fashion-- as in, he may be the back on the field for the first play, but no way i see him getting 45 or 50 snaps a game. . .

barring montee ball turning into a blocking animal out of nowhere, i really think it's RBBC this year. . . JMO. . . if any of those guys want to prove me wrong, i'm all for it. . .

I assumed there would be a more frequent rotation with McGahee gone.

Same here if any of them prove they can handle a huge load I'm all for it.

[Simple Jaded]

I was watching the Knowshon that put up nearly 1000 rushing yards his rookie year despite getting hurt in the preseason, splitting time with Buckhalter, and running behind a line that featured the corpses of Ben Hamilton and Casey Wiegmann along with whatever scrub we trotted out to replace Ryan Harris. I was also watching the Knowshon that put up almost 800 yards in 2010 despite getting hurt again, and playing behind an even worse offensive line in a very pass happy offense. I was watching the Knowshon that came off the bench last year and almost almost single-handedly gave our running game a spark and allowed us to open our offense. The same Knowshon that two different coaching staffs have made integral parts of their offense.

The Slowshon that is thoroughly ******* forgettable in every conceivable way?

Seriously, way to spice up an otherwise pathetic narrative, you should be his agent.

[Broncolingus]

...wonder how much of the round-robin offensive line issues are related to the overall mediocre impression Denver RBs have given thus far...

...stating the obvious here, but would like to see some good production and consistency build these last two preseason games.

(...knowing, yes, the last preseason game basically wont be any of the starters...)

[slim]

...wonder how much of the round-robin offensive line issues are related to the overall mediocre impression Denver RBs have given thus far...

...stating the obvious here, but would like to see some good production and consistency build these last two preseason games.

(...knowing, yes, the last preseason game basically wont be any of the starters...)

That is a fair point. The OL has been pretty bad.

[Ravage!!!]

seriously, that's hilarious. . . "injury-prone" is now an official medical diagnosis??

:spit: :rofl: :pound:


his contention about conditioning wasn't wrong, though. . . moreno was clearly in much better shape last year. . . he finished drives instead of tapping out after three plays, and i never saw him on the sideline gasping for air. . . and maybe it was just luck, but we didn't have the same flurry of groin pulls that we'd been getting in past years. . . i absolutely think the new S+C staff is night and day better than the old clowns. . .

also, keep in mind that the FO cut willis over knowshon. . . granted, salary could be part of that, but i think scheme fit was as well. . . somebody has to catch the ball out of the backfield. . . if (IF!) he can stay healthy for any period of time, moreno will have a role to play this year. . .

I don't think we cut WIllis for Knowshon, I think we cut him because of Ball and his cap hit. Moreno has this last year on his contract, and I feel confident that the team doesn't resign him. I think that says more about how this coaching regime (or Elway) truly feels about the cheap Moreno.

That being said, yes, Moreno will have a role this year. He's the best pass pro back we have....right now. But as we both know, he's not fast, he's not strong, and he's not durable. I can count the number of 20 yrd rushes he has on a single hand, I believe. So he's no game breaker by any means. He really is very much just a mediocre, run of the mill, RB that doesn't give you anything OVER what we can get from basically any other player.

[CoachChaz]

I don't think we cut WIllis for Knowshon, I think we cut him because of Ball and his cap hit. Moreno has this last year on his contract, and I feel confident that the team doesn't resign him. I think that says more about how this coaching regime (or Elway) truly feels about the cheap Moreno.

That being said, yes, Moreno will have a role this year. He's the best pass pro back we have....right now. But as we both know, he's not fast, he's not strong, and he's not durable. I can count the number of 20 yrd rushes he has on a single hand, I believe. So he's no game breaker by any means. He really is very much just a mediocre, run of the mill, RB that doesn't give you anything OVER what we can get from basically any other player.

Agreed. Sadly, I believe we have the same in both Ball and Hillman as well.

[TXBRONC]

Agreed. Sadly, I believe we have the same in both Ball and Hillman as well.

Well if IIRC at one time you thought Demaryius Thomas wasn't going to be very good but now it looks like he's well on his way to be one of very best.

Certainly you could be right but I don't we don't think we have enough on Ball to know. His last time out he average 4.7 yards per carry.

[slim]

I can count the number of 20 yrd rushes he has on a single hand

You have six fingers on your hand? No offense, but that's kind of gross.

[Ravage!!!]

You have six fingers on your hand? No offense, but that's kind of gross.

Yeah... but the 6th one is up on my wrist like a dog...so you can't see it.

[Ravage!!!]

Agreed. Sadly, I believe we have the same in both Ball and Hillman as well.

I don't know. Hillman has a LOT more speed than Knowshon, so a guy that can go outside and take it all the way is already better. I don't know where you can even compare Ball to Knowshon, yet.

[TXBRONC]

Moreno ran a 4.5 forty at the Combine but it's not like players have ever timed faster in track gear and it doesn't translate to being in pads.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) – Ronnie Hillman and Montee Ball stood out for all the wrong reasons last weekend.

Denver’s young running backs want to atone for their big blunders when the Broncos host the St. Louis Rams on Saturday night in what’s essentially the final dress rehearsal for the regular season.

Hillman fumbled when he tried to stretch the ball over the goal line on second down from the 1, and Seattle cornerback Brandon Browner returned it 106 yards for a touchdown that set the tone for the 40-10 thumping by the Seahawks.

rest - http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/08/23/young-broncos-runners-hillman-ball-experiencing-growing-pains/

[Canmore]

i was thrilled when we finally got rid of him-- i disliked him as much as chef did, and that's saying something. . .

I felt he was a decade or two behind the times. Groins and hammys. To many pulls.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Moreno ran a 4.5 forty at the Combine but it's not like players have ever timed faster in track gear and it doesn't translate to being in pads.

I think he was in the 4.6 range.

[Simple Jaded]

I think he was in the 4.6 range.

A high of 4.44 and a low of 4.68, 4.50 was his official time. 4.59 on his Pro Day.

[Nick]

someone better stand out tonight... it's wide open. I have a feeling it is going to be Hillman after that disaster performance.

[TXBRONC]

I think he was in the 4.6 range.

Bosco insists it was a 4.5 not that it matter he seems to be slow in pads anyway. TD ran a 4.6 but put him in pads and he was faster.

[Bosco]

Bosco insists it was a 4.5 not that it matter he seems to be slow in pads anyway. TD ran a 4.6 but put him in pads and he was faster.

Google is your friend. For the record, the info in the link is the exact same info Jaded posted above.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65960&draftyear=2009&genpos=rb

[Joel]

someone better stand out tonight... it's wide open. I have a feeling it is going to be Hillman after that disaster performance.
Well, I'll give you this much: He stood out, definitely.

[chazoe60]

Hillman is going to cust us a game or even games if we try to give him the ball more than ten times. He absolutely can not be our starter.

[CrazyHorse]

At this point I think Moreno should be our starter. At least until he gets injured and Montee gets better at pass protection.

[DenBronx]

Moreno looks like hes on fire in Mannings offense. Bring in Ball for short yardage/red zone.


Thats a solid 1 - 2 punch

[Simple Jaded]

Wait? Anderson looks good against backups and it's no reason to get your hopes up, Moreno looks good against backups and he's tearing it up?

[TXBRONC]

Google is your friend. For the record, the info in the link is the exact same info Jaded posted above.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65960&draftyear=2009&genpos=rb

And reading comprehension would be yours if you pulled your head out of your ass. :welcome:

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Its a no brainer to me. Moreno is the best receiver and the best blocker. He and Ball are about equal at running between the tackles. Moreno should absolutely get the bulk of the pt.

[Simple Jaded]

Try shoulda drafted Michael or Lacy and ended this ridiculous situation once and for all. Stocking your RB corp based on pass protection and ST's is quickly getting old.

[Dapper Dan]

Hillman is going to cust us a game or even games if we try to give him the ball more than ten times. He absolutely can not be our starter.

Last season we gave him more than 10 carries in 3 different games. He didn't cost us any of those games.

[Jsteve01]

Google is your friend. For the record, the info in the link is the exact same info Jaded posted above.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65960&draftyear=2009&genpos=rb

If you knew anything about draftscout you would know that many of the numbers they post are projections. Here, I used your friend for you

http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/2009/03/19/georgias-pro-day-attracts-nfl-whos-who/

and at the combine he also ran in the 4.6's

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/knowshon-moreno?id=79619

Bosco, you'd probably have a much better response from other posters if you didn't come off as a condescending jerk.

[Nomad]

Try shoulda drafted Michael or Lacy and ended this ridiculous situation once and for all. Stocking your RB corp based on pass protection and ST's is quickly getting old.

Is Montee Ball not doing well?

[Dapper Dan]

Is Montee Ball not doing well?

I thought he did well.

[Jsteve01]

honestly other than the fumble, Hillman had the better night

[Simple Jaded]

Is Montee Ball not doing well?

Not bad at all, but Michael and Lacy are better. Both were there.

[Simple Jaded]

If you knew anything about draftscout you would know that many of the numbers they post are projections. Here, I used your friend for you

http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/2009/03/19/georgias-pro-day-attracts-nfl-whos-who/

and at the combine he also ran in the 4.6's

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/knowshon-moreno?id=79619

Bosco, you'd probably have a much better response from other posters if you didn't come off as a condescending jerk.

Draft scout uses known 40 times, either from combine, pro days, spring practices or Nike combines. They don't usually post anything until they have numbers to post.

[Jsteve01]

Draft scout uses known 40 times, either from combine, pro days, spring practices or Nike combines. They don't usually post anything until they have numbers to post. Their numbers never match official numbers. Look at the links I posted. One from the official georgia blog on the pro day and one from the combine. I'll tell you right now that if anyone said he ran a 4.4 it was hand timed and an unofficial result.

[dogfish]

file under; shit that's NOT woth arguing about, even on the internet


we all know moreno runs a 4.8 with the pads on. . .

[TXBRONC]

I thought he did well.

I think he's done well the past couple of weeks.

[Simple Jaded]

Their numbers never match official numbers. Look at the links I posted. One from the official georgia blog on the pro day and one from the combine. I'll tell you right now that if anyone said he ran a 4.4 it was hand timed and an unofficial result.
Speaking of never matching, UGA is renowned for pie-in-the-sky 40 times, they reported Cornelius Washington ran a 4.29 in spring as a soph.

[Jsteve01]

file under; shit that's NOT woth arguing about, even on the internet


we all know moreno runs a 4.8 with the pads on. . . lol

[Jsteve01]

Their numbers never match official numbers. Look at the links I posted. One from the official georgia blog on the pro day and one from the combine. I'll tell you right now that if anyone said he ran a 4.4 it was hand timed and an unofficial result.
Speaking of never matching, UGA is renowned for pie-in-the-sky 40 times, they reported Cornelius Washington ran a 4.29 in spring as a soph.. Sounds legit

[Bosco]

And reading comprehension would be yours if you pulled your head out of your ass. :welcome:

You said I "insisted" that he ran a 4.5, which to me insinuated that you did not believe me. If that's not what you meant to convey, I suggest you do a better job of expressing yourself.


If you knew anything about draftscout you would know that many of the numbers they post are projections. Here, I used your friend for you

http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/2009/03/19/georgias-pro-day-attracts-nfl-whos-who/

and at the combine he also ran in the 4.6's

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/knowshon-moreno?id=79619

Bosco, you'd probably have a much better response from other posters if you didn't come off as a condescending jerk.

You might want to spend more than two seconds reading things. You'll notice the NFL Draft Scout page lists "results" and not "projections". I don't recall ever seeing them use projections post-combine, however I'm sure they would make that clear if it was the case, considering they are professionals. I'm not sure where NFL.com pulled their number from but it's definitely seems to be wrong as two other independent sites reported the 4.50 number.

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Knowshon&l=Moreno&i=8306

[Jsteve01]

I thought he did well. Turbin and Michael both ran for over 5 ypc

[Jsteve01]

:beating dead horse"

[MOtorboat]

LOL. Who gives a shit, that was 4 1/2 years ago.

[Jsteve01]

You said I "insisted" that he ran a 4.5, which to me insinuated that you did not believe me. If that's not what you meant to convey, I suggest you do a better job of expressing yourself.



You might want to spend more than two seconds reading things. You'll notice the NFL Draft Scout page lists "results" and not "projections". I don't recall ever seeing them use projections post-combine, however I'm sure they would make that clear if it was the case, considering they are professionals. I'm not sure where NFL.com pulled their number from but it's definitely seems to be wrong as two other independent sites reported the 4.50 number.

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Knowshon&l=Moreno&i=8306

bwahaha. So the official nfl site got it wrong but nflcombineresults got it right? Gotcha. you just can't stand being wrong.

[Jsteve01]

LOL. Who gives a shit, that was 4 1/2 years ago.

mostly I'm in this argument because I'm sick of Bosco's attitude if you want to know the truth Mo.

[Jsteve01]

You said I "insisted" that he ran a 4.5, which to me insinuated that you did not believe me. If that's not what you meant to convey, I suggest you do a better job of expressing yourself.



You might want to spend more than two seconds reading things. You'll notice the NFL Draft Scout page lists "results" and not "projections". I don't recall ever seeing them use projections post-combine, however I'm sure they would make that clear if it was the case, considering they are professionals. I'm not sure where NFL.com pulled their number from but it's definitely seems to be wrong as two other independent sites reported the 4.50 number.

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Knowshon&l=Moreno&i=8306

And I'll make this really easy to understand. If you've followed the predraft process at all you would have noted that it's very typical to see an initial time on the 40 results for players and then later the nfl will post "official times" Not sure why but hand timed 40s typically seem to run a little fast. So if Joe data input guy at nfl draftscout sees the number flash on the screen and then posts it prior to the official time being released then it's probably wrong. It's part of the process. And it happens every year. But again if you're going to stick to the assertion the two "independent sites" Have better numbers than the official NFL site well then there's not much else to say on the subject.

[Bosco]

bwahaha. So the official nfl site got it wrong but nflcombineresults got it right? Gotcha. you just can't stand being wrong.

Not one for logic are you? Since you clearly need it, I'll try to explain this for you very slowly.

If you have multiple sites all reporting different information, but then two are reporting the same information and we know one of the two is a pretty reputable source, there's a pretty decent chance the consistent information is correct.


mostly I'm in this argument because I'm sick of Bosco's attitude if you want to know the truth Mo.

You'll have to deal with it.


And I'll make this really easy to understand. If you've followed the predraft process at all you would have noted that it's very typical to see an initial time on the 40 results for players and then later the nfl will post "official times" Not sure why but hand timed 40s typically seem to run a little fast. So if Joe data input guy at nfl draftscout sees the number flash on the screen and then posts it prior to the official time being released then it's probably wrong. It's part of the process. And it happens every year. But again if you're going to stick to the assertion the two "independent sites" Have better numbers than the official NFL site well then there's not much else to say on the subject. Wait...so you're telling me that numbers get revised sometimes? Wow, well thanks for pointing that out. In all my years of being around football I would have never known that had I not had you to point it out. I'm sure NFL Draft Scout, having employed various NFL personnel over the years and now being owned by CBS, is also clueless to this fact and has never ever bothered to post the correct, adjusted times, right?

[Jsteve01]

Not one for logic are you? Since you clearly need it, I'll try to explain this for you very slowly.

If you have multiple sites all reporting different information, but then two are reporting the same information and we know one of the two is a pretty reputable source, there's a pretty decent chance the consistent information is correct.



You'll have to deal with it.

Wait...so you're telling me that numbers get revised sometimes? Wow, well thanks for pointing that out. In all my years of being around football I would have never known that had I not had you to point it out. I'm sure NFL Draft Scout, having employed various NFL personnel over the years and now being owned by CBS, is also clueless to this fact and has never ever bothered to post the correct, adjusted times, right?
so let's break this down. There are plenty of other sites posting exactly the information the the official NFL site has posted, but you prefer to stick to your guns on the erroneous times (which again are inconsistent) posted by independent sites because it fits your argument? Gotcha

[Dapper Dan]

Turbin and Michael both ran for over 5 ypc

I'm not a stat person when it comes to preseason, honestly.

[Bosco]

so let's break this down. There are plenty of other sites posting exactly the information the the official NFL site has posted, but you prefer to stick to your guns on the erroneous times (which again are inconsistent) posted by independent sites because it fits your argument? Gotcha

That's funny. I'm looking now and I see a whole smattering of numbers.

NFL.com has the 4.62 number.

Wiki, NFL DraftScout, NFL Combine and Bleacher Report (yuck) results list 4.5.

Mile High Report, SBNation and FFToolbox lists 4.60.

40-yard-times.com has NA for a combine time and 4.64 for a pro day

ESPN lists him as 4.56.

Another discussion forum had him listed as 4.47, though the supporting link is now dead.

So yeah, let's not pretend that you have a whole bunch of people supporting NFL.com's number and only a site or two claiming otherwise.

[TXBRONC]

You said I "insisted" that he ran a 4.5, which to me insinuated that you did not believe me. If that's not what you meant to convey, I suggest you do a better job of expressing yourself.



You might want to spend more than two seconds reading things. You'll notice the NFL Draft Scout page lists "results" and not "projections". I don't recall ever seeing them use projections post-combine, however I'm sure they would make that clear if it was the case, considering they are professionals. I'm not sure where NFL.com pulled their number from but it's definitely seems to be wrong as two other independent sites reported the 4.50 number.

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Knowshon&l=Moreno&i=8306

Actually if you need clarification ask don't assume. If you don't like it tough shit.

[TXBRONC]

so let's break this down. There are plenty of other sites posting exactly the information the the official NFL site has posted, but you prefer to stick to your guns on the erroneous times (which again are inconsistent) posted by independent sites because it fits your argument? Gotcha

Steve it doesn't matter what Bosco thinks or what stats he brings forward.

I don't give a rat's what Moreno ran at the Combine because he's not that fast in pads. I wouldn't be surprised if Dog is spot on about Moreno running a 4.8 in pads.

[Simple Jaded]

The NFL is the last source I would trust, their own broadcast team doesn't agree with their official times.

[Bosco]

Actually if you need clarification ask don't assume. If you don't like it tough shit.

If I don't like it, I'll just ride you like a rented mule and make you cry.

[Jsteve01]

If I don't like it, I'll just ride you like a rented mule and make you cry.

is your real name bud?

[TXBRONC]

If I don't like it, I'll just ride you like a rented mule and make you cry.

Ah no that won't happen troll.

[Jsteve01]

Actually if you need clarification ask don't assume. If you don't like it tough shit.

If I don't like it, I'll just ride you like a rented mule and make you cry.. I get a real laugh out of arrogant internet tough guys.

[TXBRONC]

. I get a real laugh out of arrogant internet tough guys.

Same here.

[BroncoWave]

Montee Ball was with the first team in practice today. Looks like he could be on track to be the week 1 starter now. I would expect he and Moreno to get most of the touches in week 1.

[underrated29]

Montee Ball was with the first team in practice today. Looks like he could be on track to be the week 1 starter now. I would expect he and Moreno to get most of the touches in week 1.



How do you such things?

[underrated29]

How do you such things?

^know

[Ziggy]

How do you such things?


^know

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/554677-Jeremiah-Johnson-Ryan-Lilja-return-to-Broncos-practice-from-injury

See post #3

[MOtorboat]

How do you such things?

Did you know you can edit your own posts?

[BroncoWave]

How do you such things?

Well Fox announced that Ball started in practice today. The rest of the post was just my educated guess.

[underrated29]

Why edit when I can just type our 5 symbols

[underrated29]

Well Fox announced that Ball started in practice today. The rest of the post was just my educated guess.

I had not seen that and I love it!

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I like the way Ball runs with the rock, but I still think Moreno should get the lion's share of pt.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Jeff Legwold ‏@Jeff_Legwold 27 Aug

#Broncos OC Adam Gase said team will use all of the RBs "by committee'' and "we've never shied away from that.''

[BroncoWave]

Jeff Legwold ‏@Jeff_Legwold 27 Aug

#Broncos OC Adam Gase said team will use all of the RBs "by committee'' and "we've never shied away from that.''

Makes sense. They have a nice mix of skillsets and none of them are head and shoulders better than the rest. I would hope to see something like a 40-40-20 split between Moreno-Ball-Hillman.