Is he a Super Square? (Superman vs. Iron Man)

[MOtorboat]

Mastershake, I would really love your thoughts on this article:

http://entertainment.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/13/18920422-is-he-a-super-square-mild-mannered-man-of-steel-must-compete-in-an-iron-man-world?lite

Interesting that they mentioned the British TV "Sherlock" versus the movie reboot of Sherlock Holmes with, ironically, Robert Downey, Jr.

[MasterShake]

http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/he-super-square-mild-mannered-man-steel-must-compete-iron-6C10314852 your link went to a 404.

Anyhoo... its apples and oranges. Iron Man is better compared to Batman as they are more "in the trenches" type characters who use their wits and wealth. Superman always comes in to save the day during or after times of crisis both literally and figuratively. Take the 1979 Superman movie. America was still reeling from post-Vietnam, gritty movies were the norm at the cinema, and everyone was ready for some optimism which Christopher Reeve and that interpretation fulfilled. The most recent Iron Man was a revenge movie against terrorists in a post 9-11 world, and once again this Superman movie comes after that as a beacon of hope as we live in uncertain times.

Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, etc. are flawed characters who reflect the human nature of heroes, whereas Superman takes on the archetype of a Hercules type figure who struggles with being both a god-like entity and human. Superman will alway reflect the ideals we strive for, and characters like Batman and Iron Man reflect the struggles (in the comics for instance Tony Stark is an alcoholic). I think we need both types of characters in our modern mythologies. After all the power of myths doesn't come from the fact that dragons or supervillians are real, but that they can be defeated.

Not to get political, but I've read whole well thought out arguments that Batman reflects a Conservative ideal of self-reliance and discipline whereas Superman leans towards optimism and faith in humanity to work together as a whole. Now I know Buff thinks these movies are drivel, but anyone who has every studied Joseph Campbell or other modern mythological historians knows there are many layers to the stories they present. Except Ghost Rider. Those movies suck.

[Northman]

Thats ok, i read today that the new Superman has a lot of christian similarities.

[MOtorboat]

Maybe this link will work:

http://t.nbcnews.com/entertainment/he-super-square-mild-mannered-man-steel-must-compete-iron-6C10314852

[MasterShake]

Thats ok, i read today that the new Superman has a lot of christian similarities.

I wouldn't say so much Christian, but definitely god/Jesus-like qualities (which in themselves can be traced to other religions and cultures but thats for another thread). I can definitely see how some would draw the parallel though since Jor-El essentially sacrificed his son to be a savior to Earth.

[MOtorboat]

Hasn't Superman always had somewhat of a Jesus theme?

[MasterShake]

Depends on what era. Golden Age superman was a moralistic Everyman. Silver Age was a Jesus figure in some ways, and post 1980's he's leaned toward being a conflicted god instead of a boyscout.

[Ravage!!!]

My biggest problem with Super Man and the Thor's (gods) being called "Super Heroes"... is the fact that they ARE indestructible. They can't really die... and I HATE that the only vulnerability of a Super Man is some green rock from his home planet.

I hate this because, if you are invulnerable, if you are a god, if nothing can hurt you, harm you, or kill you........ then there is no chance of being defeated.

Idk, just something I have never liked about Super Man and Thor as being called "Super Heroes."

[MasterShake]

The way to hurt them is by hurting the people they love. I know it sounds dumb but that's why they make them have secret identities or form bonds with mortals.

[aberdien]

Here's a quote from a friend of mine who likes Superman a lot for some insight as to why he is relevant as a superhero:

"His do-goodery is what makes him a complex character. Like when he winds up working for the government even though they don't always have the best ideas. Then there's the fact that he's never met his family, knows he isn't human and yet feels strong loyalty to Earth. HIS enemies are every bit as good as Batman's as well. Batman does things out of revenge. Superman does good for the sake of being the only one who can do it."