Brandstater the new #1...for now

[SmilinAssasSin27]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12158422


ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) -The Denver Broncos got a head start on cuts, releasing nine players, including quarterback Ingle Martin.

The team also placed guard Matt McChesney on the reserve/injured list with a sprained ankle on Friday.

There are no surprises in the other players released: DLs Matthias Askew and Carlton Powell; OL Kory Lichtensteiger and Clint Oldenberg; CB Rashod Moulton; RB Marcus Thomas; WR Nate Swift and LB Lee Robinson.

Martin is a free agent who signed after No. 2 quarterback Chris Simms sprained an ankle two weeks ago. Starter Kyle Orton has an injured finger, and neither can play in the opener at Cincinnati next week. Rookie Tom Brandstater is expected to start.

The Broncos must get down to 53 players Saturday.

Sorry if already posted

[Day1BroncoFan]

Go Broncos! Go Brandstater!

He looked good in the first half yesterday. I didn't see the second half so can't say.

The whole team looked good most of the first half.

[getlynched47]

Rookie Brandstater expected to start? Nice. 0-1.

[Day1BroncoFan]

rookie brandstater expected to start? Nice. 0-1.

not!!!

[Mike]

Rookie Brandstater expected to start? Nice. 0-1.

Eh...I was thinking the same thing with Orton. :noidea:

[Dortoh]

Eh...I was thinking the same thing with Orton. :noidea:


Good point

[topscribe]

Judging from the last couple games, McD just may have found something there . . .

-----

[BroncoBJ]

If only we had Matt Cassell :( :lol:

Kinda funny that him and Orton are hurt. Its like Jay jinxed them. :fight:

[NameUsedBefore]

Good. Tom Bra- is unpolished and probably will get worked in Cincy, but he'll develop.

Orton, however, is a noodle-armed dead-end.

[broncofan7]

Good. Tom Bra- is unpolished and probably will get worked in Cincy, but he'll develop.

Orton, however, is a noodle-armed dead-end.

Precisely :cool:

[Ravage!!!]

I'll say it again. Orton's injury is the best thing that could have happened to McDaniel

[topscribe]

Good. Tom Bra- is unpolished and probably will get worked in Cincy, but he'll develop.

Orton, however, is a noodle-armed dead-end.

EE2CxDWm1sc

eQS6-v75qms

RrAJNQ_e8Jk

-----

[TXBRONC]

I thought Orton was expected to start the opener? If he and Simms are that bad of shape then why did they let Martin go?

[Reidman]

Watch the rook take over the starting job...:lol:

Would make the trade seem like even more of a waste...


To Day1, he kinda petered out in the 2nd half...

[topscribe]

Watch the rook take over the starting job...:lol:

Would make the trade seem like even more of a waste...


To Day1, he kinda petered out in the 2nd half...

Why? They need more than one QB, don't they? And was Orton the only
element in the trade? Didn't I hear something about 2 firsts and a third?

-----

[claymore]

Bottom line......... NO Way has Orton out performed Brandy.

If Orton is the starter, it comes down to pride, and Orton being a veteran, not performance.

Which, I can get behind, but Orton should have a short'er leash at the least.

[Reidman]

Why? They need more than one QB, don't they? And was Orton the only
element in the trade? Didn't I hear something about 2 firsts and a third?

-----

Depends on how we spend those picks...

[Grover]

Until I hear it from McDaniel's mouth, I'm not sure who will be starting game #1. September 13th is still a little ways off.

[claymore]

Until I hear it from McDaniel's mouth, I'm not sure who will be starting game #1. September 13th is still a little ways off.

Even then its suspect.

[Watchthemiddle]

I like Tom, especially his haircut in my avy, but I am not sure he is ready to be a starter. We all saw what happened to this team when Cutler wasn't ready...quickly went from 7-4 to 9-7 and out of the playoffs.

However, if we are going to go 3-13 or 4-12 as some of you have predicted, we might as well do it with a rookie. That said, I sure wouldn't want to waste a vet like Champ and others as they are getting older on an experiment. We have also seen many many many rookies get thrown into the fire way to early and their confidence is shot for the rest of their carreer.

If Orton is ready, go with him. If not we have no choice. I will support whatever happens.

[Watchthemiddle]

Bottom line......... NO Way has Orton out performed Brandy.

If Orton is the starter, it comes down to pride, and Orton being a veteran, not performance.

Which, I can get behind, but Orton should have a short'er leash at the least.

Again, I go back to the 2006 season. Vet at QB coming off a 13-3 season..we draft CUtler and everyone wants him to play before he is ready. Season starts off 7-2, then goes to 7-4..Cutler comes in and we go to 9-7 and no playoffs after going to the AFFCG the year before.

I am all for starting Tom if he is ready. But if he is not, and we have a healthy vet I say go with the Vet. Tom is only going to get better watching and can step in next year and kill it.

[Dean]

There is a chance that Tom will be starting. I'll bet the Bengals are working overtime on disguising coverages and blitzes.

At least he can throw deep enough that Cinci will have to cover more than just the line of scrimmage.

[Watchthemiddle]

I'll say it again. Orton's injury is the best thing that could have happened to McDaniel

How do you know that? You didn't even watch the "lame, boring" game last night.

[topscribe]

Depends on how we spend those picks...

They're spent: Ayers, Alphonso Smith, Quinn (as a trade up from the third),
and Moreno (because the Broncos probably could not have afforded to ignore
the defense and picked him without the Ayers pick).

But if Brandstater were to become the starter (which is doubtful immediately
unless neither Orton nor Simms can go), that in itself does not make the trade a
waste. If Brandstater is good enough to be a starter, then that makes him a
good draft pick, not necessarily the trade a waste.

-----

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm at least intrigued by the notion. We'll know immediately if we have a guy who can grow into a legit player. It's not like he'll keep the job. Why not toss him in against a barely average defense and see what he can do???

[Northman]

I thought Orton was expected to start the opener? If he and Simms are that bad of shape then why did they let Martin go?


Thats what i was wondering too. Is Tom getting the start because they like his potential and performance or because of Orton's injury? Either way, there are pro's and con's of starting him but i do like his arm better.

[Lonestar]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12158422


ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) -The Denver Broncos got a head start on cuts, releasing nine players, including quarterback Ingle Martin.

The team also placed guard Matt McChesney on the reserve/injured list with a sprained ankle on Friday.

There are no surprises in the other players released: DLs Matthias Askew and Carlton Powell; OL Kory Lichtensteiger and Clint Oldenberg; CB Rashod Moulton; RB Marcus Thomas; WR Nate Swift and LB Lee Robinson.

Martin is a free agent who signed after No. 2 quarterback Chris Simms sprained an ankle two weeks ago. Starter Kyle Orton has an injured finger, and neither can play in the opener at Cincinnati next week. Rookie Tom Brandstater is expected to start.
The Broncos must get down to 53 players Saturday.

Sorry if already posted


Thats what i was wondering too. Is Tom getting the start because they like his potential and performance or because of Orton's injury? Either way, there are pro's and con's of starting him but i do like his arm better.


that should put that to rest..

[Shazam!]

I would be happy if we had a talented young QB getting his knocks now as Denver prepares for the future. I really like the kid. Let him get some on the job training. Orton is not the future he is just a stop gap and the best QB available in the Cutler deal. Plus the wideouts and good OL will make his learning much easier. At this point, they have nothing to lose. Let's go with Tommy B.

[TXBRONC]

I would be happy if we had a talented young QB getting his knocks now as Denver prepares for the future. I really like the kid. Let him get some on the job training. Orton is not the future he is just a stop gap and the best QB available in the Cutler deal. Plus the wideouts and good OL will make his learning much easier. At this point, they have nothing to lose. Let's go with Tommy B.

I like the kid a lot but I don't think he's quite ready to challenge for the starting quarterback position. I would about the rest of the offense being a big help to him if it wasn't for the fact that everyone is new to this system.

[Lonestar]

I would be happy if we had a talented young QB getting his knocks now as Denver prepares for the future. I really like the kid. Let him get some on the job training. Orton is not the future he is just a stop gap and the best QB available in the Cutler deal. Plus the wideouts and good OL will make his learning much easier. At this point, they have nothing to lose. Let's go with Tommy B.


I think most folks are going to see a different KO put there when he does play.. I like To[ have seen alot of film/videos on him since he came on board and frankly I think he is getting a bums rush by a few fans that do not like him for a couple of reasons but mainly he is not jay.. or he was Joshes choice out of the deal..

I think he will surprise folks with a nice touch on the ball for more than dinks and dunks..

Do I think the TB could be the long term future when he was drafted I stated he would most likely become the next late round draft choice to star for Josh..

But so far he has rarely touched the ball with the ONES until KO hurt his finger last week.. alot of the guys he has been used to throwing to have been second, third and fourth stringers and thus his timing seems to be good.. may look alot different with the ones..

I'll wait to let him learn behind veterans before rushing him into the breech..

[Shazam!]

I like the kid a lot but I don't think he's quite ready to challenge for the starting quarterback position. I would about the rest of the offense being a big help to him if it wasn't for the fact that everyone is new to this system.

The kid has been much more impressive than Orton, although it's only preseason. He made a lot of throws that Orton didn't even attempt. I'm not condemning Orton until he ****s up the regular season, he has my support. If the kid has potential to become a Starting QB in this League and Orton falters, let's give him the keys so McDaniels can groom him the way he wants to so they can be set at QB.

[Reidman]

The kid has been much more impressive than Orton, although it's only preseason. He made a lot of throws that Orton didn't even attempt. I'm not condemning Orton until he ****s up the regular season, he has my support. If the kid has potential to become a Starting QB in this League and Orton falters, let's give him the keys so McDaniels can groom him the way he wants to so they can be set at QB.

This might have something to do with McD's playcalling for two different style QB's....You'll also notice Brandstater is mobile where as Orton is more akin to a slug in the pocket...no disrespect to him but I have yet to see the guy scramble....

[Watchthemiddle]

Two words....Sage Rosenfells...

Anyone see his game 1 in the preseason? Looked like an all pro, MVP, Pro Bowler.

Anyone see his performance tonight? Dreadful.

One or two good performances in the preseason don't mean anything.....nor does one or two BAD performances in the preseason mean anything.

Thats all

[Shazam!]

WTM he's raw. Nobody is calling him the second coming of John Elway.

Just Denver needs a future at QB and we all know Orton is not. That's not a 'he sucks' not the future either, this is just realistic.

Josh knows QBs (his bread and butter, for whatever that's worth at this time) and knows how to make them great. Let's see what the kid has if he has a future with the team as more than a backup. All I'm saying.

[Watchthemiddle]

WTM he's raw. Nobody is calling him the second coming of John Elway.

Just Denver needs a future at QB and we all know Orton is not. That's not a 'he sucks' not the future either, this is just realistic.

Josh knows QBs (his bread and butter, for whatever that's worth at this time) and knows how to make them great. Let's see what the kid has if he has a future with the team as more than a backup. All I'm saying.

I agree.

[Kaylore]

You people see Brandstater play in one game and want him to start? We're talking about a sixth round rookie! The guy showed good velocity, good accuracy (relatively speaking) and he managed the game. They also ran the same variation of about five plays over and over again and he had one or two reads at most. The guy is a project. I'll grant you that he showed enormous promise, but that he won't be developed enough to start for another year at least.

As for the cuts, very sad to see Lichtensteiger and Lee Robinson cut. Robinson is a practice squad candidate. Lichtensteiger no longer fits the team mold of man blocking, but he's an incredibly intelligent and tough player who will make a fine ZB center somewhere.

[Tned]

You people see Brandstater play in one game and want him to start? We're talking about a sixth round rookie! The guy showed good velocity, good accuracy (relatively speaking) and he managed the game. They also ran the same variation of about five plays over and over again and he had one or two reads at most. The guy is a project. I'll grant you that he showed enormous promise, but that he won't be developed enough to start for another year at least.

As for the cuts, very sad to see Lichtensteiger and Lee Robinson cut. Robinson is a practice squad candidate. Lichtensteiger no longer fits the team mold of man blocking, but he's an incredibly intelligent and tough player who will make a fine ZB center somewhere.

And, even with the reduced playbook and minimal reads, I believe his completion percentage was only a little over 50%. Yes, there were a few drops, but he definately has some growing to do. That said, I was impressed this week and last with some of the plays he made, and that he has decent zip on the ball.

[silkamilkamonico]

Brady was a 6th round pick and played well in his second year. Not saying Brandstater is the next Brady, but if McDaniels system can flourish with the right kind of system QB, I don't see any reason why, given the current circumstances, we can't see if Brandstater can at least make some plays in the system. It can give Denver a good indication if he has some kind of potential within the system.

[JDL]

TB really still needs to work on fundamentals... his short and medium throws are all over the place, behind WRs, down low. I understand fans are excited to see someone throw downfield (but even those were not entirely accurate.) His technique is still being refined to allow him to be consistent.

I know people don't like Orton that much, but the offense is predicated on short accurate throws something Orton did well. Orton's only failures were in the red zone, but he was moving the ball well and with better commitment to running in the red zone and play-action we might have performed better in those first two games.

When I read the quote above, I kept expecting to see an 'if' as in IF Orton or Simms aren't ready to start, Brandstater will start. I think it is too early to say that neither Simms or Orton will be ready to go at all. If that were the case, I am confused as to why we would cut Martin, you cannot go into a game with 1 QB. My guess is that Orton is ready to go and if he struggles with his finger then Brandstater will be inserted into the game. I think that would be an easier spot for him. Things change VERY quickly and TB has not seen much more than basic coverages (I am in Phoenix and had the PHX feed, so Adrian Wilson was discussing how they were only running basic schemes trying to get better at running them, because until they learned to run those right, they couldn't be expected to handle more advanced coverages/defenses.) I would hate to rush TB into a position where he was introduced to failure too quickly. It is good to take your time with developmental QBs - even Tom Brady rode the bench for a year.

[bcbronc]

injury is the only reason you consider playing Brandstater in game 1 imo. the
kid made a lot of strides over the pre-season and looks to have the tools. but throwing him into the fire too soon risks undoing those stides at the expense of the season.

get the veteran in who has won games in the NFL and see what happens. if the offense is anemic at the half-way point or so, then you consider making the switch.

we're not bringing home the silverware this season regardless who's under centre, so why rush TB? give him at least a few weeks holding a clipboard, and then see what the circumstances dictate down the stretch.

[Magnificent Seven]

Rookie Brandstater expected to start? Nice. 0-1.

I think you are tripping! Kyle Orton is Jake Plummer! Tom Brandstater is way better than Simms and Orton. Look at his passing style! Much smoother than those QBs! I hoping that they will start Brandstater! It would be fun to see more of Brandstater to Royal scenes on the field!

I will be damn happy if Brandstater is our true Broncos QB!

[Nomad]

Unless Orton was saving his best for the regular season, I'm a little concerned. Simms will never be reliable as an NFL player so he mineaswell hang up the cleats. Unless the BRONCOS pick up another QB, Brandstater may be one.:hardswallow: I don't know, all I can do is support what the BRONCOS have on the field and hope for the best because you never know what can happen.

Sage is someone to look into, WTM, and he did a good job in the preseason.

[TXBRONC]

The kid has been much more impressive than Orton, although it's only preseason. He made a lot of throws that Orton didn't even attempt. I'm not condemning Orton until he ****s up the regular season, he has my support. If the kid has potential to become a Starting QB in this League and Orton falters, let's give him the keys so McDaniels can groom him the way he wants to so they can be set at QB.

I agree if Orton stinks up then that should open the door.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I think you are tripping! Kyle Orton is Jake Plummer! Tom Brandstater is way better than Simms and Orton. Look at his passing style! Much smoother than those QBs! I hoping that they will start Brandstater! It would be fun to see more of Brandstater to Royal scenes on the field!

I will be damn happy if Brandstater is our true Broncos QB!

Ummm......Jake Plummer always got us to the playoffs and even got us to an AFC Title game. Just sayin...

[hamrob]

EE2CxDWm1sc

eQS6-v75qms

RrAJNQ_e8Jk

-----Thanks for the vids. Proves that his receivers were better than mentioned.

He can throw the ball deep...but they're all "lobs". Not much in terms of zip...that's what I don't like. Especially, in Mcdaniel's Offense, because it's all timing and short to intermediate routes...where it would be nice to get the ball to a spot in a hurry.

If Orton's what we got...then I'll be cheering for him...but I really hope we don't settle for him for very long!

[silkamilkamonico]

If Brandstater plays against cincy because of Orton/Simms injury, Denver wins and he does a good job managing the game, does he continue to start?

Best case scenario here, Brandstater keeps starting because McDaniels likes what he's doing and where he's going.

Brady wasn't eye popping by any means and almost pedestrian his first year, but Belichek kept with him because he could see some of the good things Brady was doing that wasn't showing up in the statbook. Those good things, none of us have a clue about.

[Lonestar]

Unless Orton was saving his best for the regular season, I'm a little concerned. Simms will never be reliable as an NFL player so he mineaswell hang up the cleats. Unless the BRONCOS pick up another QB, Brandstater may be one.:hardswallow: I don't know, all I can do is support what the BRONCOS have on the field and hope for the best because you never know what can happen.

Sage is someone to look into, WTM, and he did a good job in the preseason.


I believe that Josh was calling the game as close to the vest and looking to see how thing s were going in those earlier games on where we were strong and weak to see what they needed to do in practice to improve..much like mike used to have his scripted plays on game day he was looking for how the other team reacted to which plays.. setting them up for something different later in the game.. Playing chess with them so to speak..


Do we all think we are not going to pound the ball closer to the goal or do we really think we are going to pass it in each time.. it was preseason with an almost totally new scheme and new players excepting OLINE and WR.. and even they were learning Joshes scheme..

I think I have said this many times this year is a learning season with the players making mistakes from time to time just because it is still new to them.. as the season goes on they will install more of the real playbook in the games as the coaches determine what works what does not and how they are going to play each upcoming team for its weaknesses..

I know that mike did this for each opponent but I think we will see even more of it this coming year..

This team is a work in progress and unless KO steps on his .... he will be the QB this upcoming year.. TB may indeed be the QB of the future but lets not cross that bridge until the coaching staff thinks he is ready, as JDL said a few posts back he is really RAW and while he may have a better long arm this scheme is not predicated on the long ball.. it is built on mis matches and allowing the ball carrier/WR make the play after the hand off or catch.. and I think we have alot of those players..

[Overtime]

Fantastic News!!! Go Brandstater!!!!!!!!!!!

On this day God said "Let there be light in Broncos Nation!!!!!!!!"


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :beer::elefant:

[Reidman]

One thing I noticed from the vids that Top posted that I never really noticed before was Orton's propensity to throw off his back leg rather than step into the throw....that worries me.

Might be due to his O-line breaking down around him but it seemed he did it even when the line held...

[Lonestar]

One thing I noticed from the vids that Top posted that I never really noticed before was Orton's propensity to throw off his back leg rather than step into the throw....that worries me.

Might be due to his O-line breaking down around him but it seemed he did it even when the line held...

I saw that also and Josh being a fair to middling QB coach will correct that also..

[T.K.O.]

2 words ......
marshall & moreno
that should help alot !

.....hey m&m's;)

[TXBRONC]

If Brandstater plays against cincy because of Orton/Simms injury, Denver wins and he does a good job managing the game, does he continue to start?

Best case scenario here, Brandstater keeps starting because McDaniels likes what he's doing and where he's going.

Brady wasn't eye popping by any means and almost pedestrian his first year, but Belichek kept with him because he could see some of the good things Brady was doing that wasn't showing up in the statbook. Those good things, none of us have a clue about.

If you talking about Orton and Simms being ready by week two then no I don't think McDaniels would stick with Brandstater.

As far as Brady is concerned his numbers were pretty solid in his first season. I thinks also important Brady was a 2nd year pro when he took over Bledsoe so he had 18 regular season games under his belt before he became the starter.

[honz]

If Brandstater plays against cincy because of Orton/Simms injury, Denver wins and he does a good job managing the game, does he continue to start?

Best case scenario here, Brandstater keeps starting because McDaniels likes what he's doing and where he's going.

Brady wasn't eye popping by any means and almost pedestrian his first year, but Belichek kept with him because he could see some of the good things Brady was doing that wasn't showing up in the statbook. Those good things, none of us have a clue about.

Speak for yourself. I could out coach Darth Hoodie!

[Lonestar]

Speak for yourself. I could out coach Darth Hoodie!


I hear that Pat is accepting applications..

[silkamilkamonico]

Speak for yourself. I could out coach Darth Hoodie!

You couldn't outcoach a 6th grade pop warner defensive backs coach.

[FanInAZ]

I saw Elway's NFL debut @ Pittsburg in 1983. That's why I nomally I cringe at the idea of starting a rookie QB on week 1. How every, having his first game @ Cincinnati might be a more possitive experence then letting him stay on the bench and have his first start week...

...8 @ Baltimore
...9 vs Pittsburg
...12 vs Giants

[topscribe]

If you talking about Orton and Simms being ready by week two then no I don't think McDaniels would stick with Brandstater.

As far as Brady is concerned his numbers were pretty solid in his first season. I thinks also important Brady was a 2nd year pro when he took over Bledsoe so he had 18 regular season games under his belt before he became the starter.

Oh yes, I think McDaniels would stick with Brandstater. He definitely is looking
for his QB of the future . . . I don't think any of us will deny that . . . and
Brandstater's performances over the last two games had to make McD wonder
whether Brandy indeed is that.

Regarding Brady, he was effectively a sheer rookie when he took over the
starting job in 2001. Yes, it was his second year as a pro, but in his first year,
he played in one game, in which passed three times with one completion. So
he had no regular season games actually on the field before assuming the job.

-----

[Simple Jaded]

I'll be shocked if Orton isn't the starter for Game1, but if he isn't and things go well for Brandstater, that would prove that maybe all 3 QB's should have been given a legitimate chance to earn the starting job and not just McDaniels self-vindicating pet project.......

[Lonestar]

Oh yes, I think McDaniels would stick with Brandstater. He definitely is looking
for his QB of the future . . . I don't think any of us will deny that . . . and
Brandstater's performances over the last two games had to make McD wonder
whether Brandy indeed is that.

Regarding Brady, he was effectively a sheer rookie when he took over the
starting job in 2001. Yes, it was his second year as a pro, but in his first year,
he played in one game, in which passed three times with one completion. So
he had no regular season games actually on the field before assuming the job.

-----
but he also had a year of setting in on meetings and learning the offesive scheme.. a year of practices and Go only knows how much TC time..

hardly what TB (D) has had..

[TXBRONC]

Oh yes, I think McDaniels would stick with Brandstater. He definitely is looking
for his QB of the future . . . I don't think any of us will deny that . . . and
Brandstater's performances over the last two games had to make McD wonder
whether Brandy indeed is that.

Regarding Brady, he was effectively a sheer rookie when he took over the
starting job in 2001. Yes, it was his second year as a pro, but in his first year,
he played in one game, in which passed three times with one completion. So
he had no regular season games actually on the field before assuming the job.

-----

If it was just one game? I don't think so.

I don't buy the arguement that he was a "sheer" he was second year pro period. There is huge difference between having gone through two OTAs and two training camps with an entire regular season sandwiched between them verses guy who has just completed his first set of OTAs and first training camp.

[Watchthemiddle]

If it was just one game? I don't think so.

I don't buy the arguement that he was a "sheer" he was second year pro period. There is huge difference between having gone through two OTAs and two training camps with an entire regular season sandwiched between them verses guy who has just completed his first set of OTAs and first training camp.

I agree. I never knew it was his second year "in the league". I guess I always assumed it was his rookie year that he came in. I know Big Ben was in his rookie year when he came in and rattled off a ton of wins, but could have sworn Brady was too.

Thanks for the clarification. :beer:

[TXBRONC]

I'll be shocked if Orton isn't the starter for Game1, but if he isn't and things go well for Brandstater, that would prove that maybe all 3 QB's should have been given a legitimate chance to earn the starting job and not just McDaniels self-vindicating pet project.......

I just don't think McDaniels would do that because he brought in Orton to replace Cutler. I think the only way McDaniels could justify it is Orton was going to be out several weeks and he had no choice but start him. In that case if Brandstater was playing well and the team is winning then he might be able to hold onto the starting position.

[topscribe]

but he also had a year of setting in on meetings and learning the offesive scheme.. a year of practices and Go only knows how much TC time..

hardly what TB (D) has had..

As I've said before, you don't learn how to tend bar by sitting and watching
the bartender.

Players have repeatedly talked about the difference between practice and
real games. Day and night, they say. Brady stepped on the field as a practical
rookie . . . a knowledgeable one in theory, but a raw one in practice.

I might mention that Brandstater is not all that unlearned, either. His college
team ran a similar offense to what the Broncos are doing, so he is familiar with
some of it.



If it was just one game? I don't think so.

I don't buy the arguement that he was a "sheer" he was second year pro period. There is huge difference between having gone through two OTAs and two training camps with an entire regular season sandwiched between them verses guy who has just completed his first set of OTAs and first training camp.

As I mentioned above, those of us who have played football know there is a
tremendous difference between practice and real games. You don't become
a second year pro "period" by watching games and attending practices.

-----

[Lonestar]

As I've said before, you don't learn how to tend bar by sitting and watching
the bartender.

Players have repeatedly talked about the difference between practice and
real games. Day and night, they say. Brady stepped on the field as a practical
rookie . . . a knowledgeable one in theory, but a raw one in practice.

I might mention that Brandstater is not all that unlearned, either. His college
team ran a similar offense to what the Broncos are doing, so he is familiar with some of it.


-----


I agree Top about the virtually rookie aspect but he at least had a chance to learn the calls and reads in practice and certainly listened when in the film room..

actual playing not much OJT..

IIRC he did not start much in college either..

When we drafted TB I had a sneaking suspicion that he was going to be the next QB project for Josh.. I had thought with him not getting many snaps in the preseason that he was a disappointment and then when we brought in the other QB that really made me think he was not all he should be..

But the game he played even though it was against scrubs for he most part he looked more comfortable.. In the first game he handed off alot to RB's..

[topscribe]

I agree Top about the virtually rookie aspect but he at least had a chance to learn the calls and reads in practice and certainly listened when in the film room..

actual playing not much OJT..

IIRC he did not start much in college either..

When we drafted TB I had a sneaking suspicion that he was going to be the next QB project for Josh.. I had thought with him not getting many snaps in the preseason that he was a disappointment and then when we brought in the other QB that really made me think he was not all he should be..

But the game he played even though it was against scrubs for he most part he looked more comfortable.. In the first game he handed off alot to RB's..

What I was looking at was Brandy's 8/12 for 110 yds against Chicago, as well
as last week. Of course, as you mentioned, that was largely against subs and
rather vanilla defenses. So how he does against a defense that is throwing
everything they have at him . . . well, he may get his chance this week . . .

-----

[Shazam!]

I hope Tommy B does go in Cincy and plays well. I like what I have seen and he may just be the future for the Broncos and a viable replacement for Cutler.

[Lonestar]

I hope Tommy B does go in Cincy and plays well. I like what I have seen and he may just be the future for the Broncos and a viable replacement for Cutler.


whoa big guy your talking big if you mean that, many here will never buy into that..:tsk:

[topscribe]

whoa big guy your talking big if you mean that, many here will never buy into that..:tsk:

You never know. You just . . . never know . . .

-----

[Overtime]

I tend to look on the bright side...this whole Cutler thing just might be a blessing in disguise. who knows what tomorrow will bring.

[Simple Jaded]

whoa big guy your talking big if you mean that, many here will never buy into that..:tsk:

You assume that since we realize that the trade was ridiculously grossly incompetent that we also refuse to believe that there is a viable replacement for Jay Cutler? I'm sure there are many viable replacements, the problem is, none of these 3 QB's appear to be one of them, especially if McDaniels isn't the DemiGod coach that he and everybody else thinks he is.......

[Ravage!!!]

As I mentioned above, those of us who have played football know there is a
tremendous difference between practice and real games. You don't become
a second year pro "period" by watching games and attending practices.

-----

But you have more than what a rookie has learned. You know how to study tapes, the practices, the schedules, the season.... the nerves of the first TCs and practices aren't the same. You have gone through the entire routines before.

Not to mention, when you watch game tapes with your coaches... now you are studying teams within your division for the SECOND time. You understand your offense, what you are looking for on defenses, and not just learning THE reads, but rather then learning to recognize them better.

Carson Palmer would have loved to play his rookie season, but does say that sitting his first season behind Kitna was a HUGE benefit, especially for a high drafted pick.

[Kaylore]

It's not just that Brandstater is a sixth round project. It's not just that he only played two preseason games. And it's not just that he's a rookie (though quite frankly that should be more than enough for anyone who's watched football).

Brandstater hasn't gotten really any reps in the few OTA's and training camp practices he's been in. The offensive staff has been working to have Orton and Simms ready to go and that means 20% of the snaps largely in scout team work for Brandstater. That means of the miniscule reps he's been given, at least half weren't even him executing our own offense but pretending to be that week's opponent. He hasn't practiced with our center, build any kind of chemistry with our starting receivers or worked with any semblance of a pro game plan.

Two preaseason games and a handful of practices and people think he's better than Orton or Simms? It makes me laugh. I'd love to see his head spin when trying to diagnose his first non-vanilla gameplan and then see him try and read his first non vanilla defense. Total, complete epic disaster.

Now having said that, in a year or two, Brandstater has potential to really play in this league. But not now, and not this year.

[T.K.O.]

just imagine how good he will be when ALL his hair grows back !:D

[claymore]

It's not just that Brandstater is a sixth round project. It's not just that he only played two preseason games. And it's not just that he's a rookie (though quite frankly that should be more than enough for anyone who's watched football).

Brandstater hasn't gotten really any reps in the few OTA's and training camp practices he's been in. The offensive staff has been working to have Orton and Simms ready to go and that means 20% of the snaps largely in scout team work for Brandstater.

Two preaseason games and a handful of practices and people think he's better than Orton or Simms? It makes me laugh. I'd love to see his head spin when trying to diagnose his first non-vanilla gameplan and then see him try and read his first non vanilla defense. Total, complete epic disaster.

Now having said that, in a year or two, Brandstater has potential to really play in this league. But not now, and not this year.
So why did the kid that took the least amount of reps look the best?

[T.K.O.]

with very few exceptions it is well known in the nfl that a rookie benefits greatly from a year or 2 on the bench learning the ropes.
and i dont want to hear about ryan because his #s were not that good last year....in fact ortons were better and he played hurt for the 2nd 1/2 of the season.
that being said,i am impressed with brandstater and think we might have a solid qb in the making there

[Ravage!!!]

Hey.. there were fans/poster that actuallly thought Cutler would sit behind Jake for 2 years.

If Orton completely fails, I wouldn't be surprised to see TB play a lot this season. Find out NOW if he's going to be someone we will want to stick with, or... do we draft a QB in the first round next season? We aren't going to win. Might as well use the season as some kind of measuring stick on players that MIGHT be good down the road.

But that won't happen, generally, until we've lost our 6 games for the year.... so by week 6-7 :lol:

[T.K.O.]

Hey.. there were fans/poster that actuallly thought Cutler would sit behind Jake for 2 years.
If Orton completely fails, I wouldn't be surprised to see TB play a lot this season. Find out NOW if he's going to be someone we will want to stick with, or... do we draft a QB in the first round next season? We aren't going to win. Might as well use the season as some kind of measuring stick on players that MIGHT be good down the road.

But that won't happen, generally, until we've lost our 6 games for the year.... so by week 6-7 :lol:

if he had we would have made the playoffs in 06'

you mean week 17.....10-6 baby !:elefant:

[Ravage!!!]

Manning no sit, Brady one year. Breese no sit. Cutler 9 games sit. Rivers 2 years. McNabb no sit. Warner and sat. Romo sat. Rothlesburger didn't sit. Eli no sit.

[claymore]

if he had we would have made the playoffs in 06'

you mean week 17.....10-6 baby !:elefant:

You are kidding me? Plummer's meltdown was historical. We shouldnt have even started that douche in 06.

[Simple Jaded]

Hey.. there were fans/poster that actuallly thought Cutler would sit behind Jake for 2 years.

If Orton completely fails, I wouldn't be surprised to see TB play a lot this season. Find out NOW if he's going to be someone we will want to stick with, or... do we draft a QB in the first round next season? We aren't going to win. Might as well use the season as some kind of measuring stick on players that MIGHT be good down the road.

But that won't happen, generally, until we've lost our 6 games for the year.... so by week 6-7 :lol:

Orton completely failing is the only hope Simms has of starting, much less Brandstater, but Simms is under contract after this season, considering that I'd hope they'd see what he's got before throwing a rookie to the wolves.

They wouldn't need to find out if they need to take a QB in the 1st round, imo, as long as McDaniels is here the Broncos will be taking the same approach/philosophy with QB's that the RunningBack Whisperer took with RB's. It's not the talent in the player, it's the genius of Josh McDaniels and his system, a 1st round QB is out of the question.......

[Ravage!!!]

system, a 1st round QB is out of the question.......

actually... I think you may be dead on with this. I think we'll generally see the 'feeling' that we can succeed with lower round talent at QB, just like Shanahan and RBs. I personally feel I would rather go high with QBs and lower with RBs... but..... they don't ask me on draft day for my input :mad:

[MOtorboat]

Plummer's meltdown was historical.

:laugh:

Like losing a three-game lead with three to play?

[NameUsedBefore]

Cutler was the better quarterback when he supplanted Plummer. That is confirmed visually and statistically. IIRC, with Cutler at the helm the offense was producing +7 total points than they had been earlier. The 49ers game was just one of those games ... Cutler gets knocked out, Plummer comes in and tosses an INT, Cutler comes back in with a concussion, then you get that really bad call on the fumble. Just wasn't meant to be.

[claymore]

:laugh:

Like losing a three-game lead with three to play?

That could be about the Buccaneers or the Broncos. I dont see your angle?

[MOtorboat]

That could be about the Buccaneers or the Broncos. I dont see your angle?

The Buccaneers didn't do that. I don't see your angle?

[claymore]

The Buccaneers didn't do that. I don't see your angle?

Last year, they did the same thing as us.

[MOtorboat]

Last year, they did the same thing as us.

You need to check your facts. ;)

[Simple Jaded]

actually... I think you may be dead on with this. I think we'll generally see the 'feeling' that we can succeed with lower round talent at QB, just like Shanahan and RBs. I personally feel I would rather go high with QBs and lower with RBs... but..... they don't ask me on draft day for my input :mad:

I think it's obviously how McDaniels is going to do it, in this way he's Mike Shanahan V2.0, he and his system are the real talent. Why else would he be so quick to wipe his ass with Cutler?

This is usually where somebody points out that maybe McDaniels just doesn't want cry-baby turnover machines, which is when I'll ask them if they saw the current turnover machine walking off the field as if he's was looking for somebody to kiss his little boo boo and make it better.......

[claymore]

You need to check your facts. ;)


Most recently, the Bucs were the first NFL team to start the season 9-3 and miss the playoffs. Tampa Bay lost its final four games, including a 31-24 loss to Oakland at home in the finale, in which the Bucs led by 10 points in the fourth quarter.
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jan/17/na-gruden-reign-is-over-morris-named-as-coach-gm-b/sports-bucs/

Situation was very similar to ours.

[MOtorboat]

Situation was very similar to ours.

Except at the time, they were tied for the division lead. Their situation really doesn't compare at all.

[claymore]

Except at the time, they were tied for the division lead. Their situation really doesn't compare at all.

I dont recall the exact situation. I think if they beat the Raiders they were in. And at one point in the season they were clearly in the lead of the division.

[BroncoWave]

You are kidding me? Plummer's meltdown was historical. We shouldnt have even started that douche in 06.

Plummer was 7-4 and Cutler was 2-3 yet Plummer had the meltdown that year? Solid logic. :rolleyes:

[claymore]

Plummer was 7-4 and Cutler was 2-3 yet Plummer had the meltdown that year? Solid logic. :rolleyes:

11 TD's 13 INT's and 2 fumbles. Flipped off fans, kicked in tail lights and shouting matches with the coach. Smells like a melt down to me.

[Ravage!!!]

perhaps you should change your login/name to jaycutlerisgodiwillworshipnoothersbuthim..

wow. if he is not jay you will not like him. Got it now.. took me awhile but got it..

Honestly, Jr... this coming from you, of all people.... is just :lol:

We heard the same things, against Shanahan, from you for years and are still hearing them. For you to point out ANYTHING of this nature, about anyone, is purely hypocrisy to the utmost extent.

[BroncoWave]

11 TD's 13 INT's and 2 fumbles. Flipped off fans, kicked in tail lights and shouting matches with the coach. Smells like a melt down to me.

Yet still 3 games above .500, where as Cutler's great play put us a game below .500.

[NameUsedBefore]

Yet still 3 games above .500, where as Cutler's great play put us a game below .500.

That probably had something to do with a quickly collapsing defense. I mean, Denver's-D has only been absolutely horrible for the past three years. I guess that's easy to miss.

[TXBRONC]

That probably had something to do with a quickly collapsing defense. I mean, Denver's-D has only been absolutely horrible for the past three years. I guess that's easy to miss.

The defense was only problem when Plummer was the quarterback.

[Ravage!!!]

Yet still 3 games above .500, where as Cutler's great play put us a game below .500.

while putting up an average of over 1 TD more per game than Plummer.... it is HARD to figure out where the collapse happened.

[broncohead]

Plummer was 7-4 and Cutler was 2-3 yet Plummer had the meltdown that year? Solid logic. :rolleyes:

Cutler had put up more points per game then Plummer did. The QB doesn't stop opposing offenses from scoring. All they can do is put points on the board and Cutler did a better job of that.

[EMB6903]

Yet still 3 games above .500, where as Cutler's great play put us a game below .500.

Plummer also had a run game to support him... Tatum bells soft ass wore down by the time cutler took over...go look at the rushing numbers when plummer was starting to when cutler was... It was a huge gap.

[BroncoWave]

Cutler had put up more points per game then Plummer did. The QB doesn't stop opposing offenses from scoring. All they can do is put points on the board and Cutler did a better job of that.

Well then don't like our defense gave up all those extra points. I seem to remember a pick six that Cutler threw against Seattle.

[NameUsedBefore]

The defense was only problem when Plummer was the quarterback.

Plummer's offense was anemic at best. He had the defense on his side for much of the season but as soon as it gave out we were getting thumped. When Cutler was in we were putting up 7-more points per game... Unfortunately the 0-blitz gimmick defense was wearing thin and starting to get torched. Which it did.

If you just go by statistics, Denver goes 1-4 with Plummer still in as a 7-point reduction in offense would have been a loss against Cincy (which in itself required a 99-yard drive to even win it IIRC).

[TXBRONC]

Well then don't like our defense gave up all those extra points. I seem to remember a pick six that Cutler threw against Seattle.

I seem to remember Plummer throwing three picks against St. Louis on opening day of 2006 season.

[Ravage!!!]

I seem to remember Plummer throwing three picks against St. Louis on opening day of 2006 season.

So do I.. I was there....... embarrassed

[Lonestar]

Hey folks if you want to discuss Jake again start a thread and lets try to get back to topic a here OK..

Or let the thread die if Tb is all talked out..



:focus:

[TXBRONC]

Hey folks if you want to discuss Jake again start a thread and lets try to get back to topic a here OK..

Or let the thread die if Tb is all talked out..



:focus:



Since this thread Brandstater why did you bring Cuter into the conversation?

[Simple Jaded]

Jake Plummer is relevant to this thread, any Broncos QB is, that's the way it works.......if we're allowed to criticized Cutler in this thread, why should we stop there? Besides, Plummer leads us to Brian Griese and bringing up Griese would bring us full circle to Kyle Orton, which will inevitably lead back to Brandstater.......

[Lonestar]

Since this thread Brandstater why did you bring Cuter into the conversation?



it was how many posts ago..I have no idea perhaps I was wrong..

but Jake is not the issue here time to move on or start another thread to discuss it..

Brandstater the new #1...for now

[TXBRONC]

it was how many posts ago..I have no idea perhaps I was wrong..

but Jake is not the issue here time to move on or start another thread to discuss it..

Brandstater the new #1...for now

And neither is Cutler. By the way that was just today that you posted about Cutler.

[NameUsedBefore]

lol

[Ravage!!!]

I say..... we start TB. We are already one of the worst teams... lets use the season as a training tool.

[TXBRONC]

I say..... we start TB. We are already one of the worst teams... lets use the season as a training tool.

I just don't think Brandstater is quite ready.

[Ravage!!!]

I just don't think Brandstater is quite ready.

I dont' either.. at all. He's not ready. But what does Orton's 'readiness' really get us??

[TXBRONC]

I dont' either.. at all. He's not ready. But what does Orton's 'readiness' really get us??

I hoping that his readiness will translate in wins we might not get with rookie under center.

[Lonestar]

And neither is Cutler. By the way that was just today that you posted about Cutler.



I have removed any jay reference I have made in this thread since it seems to be your bone of contention and it was only one post BTW..

So it is now time to discuss TB in the thread or let it die and IF Y'all want to discuss Jake by all means start another thread to do so..

[Simple Jaded]

Per Jrwiz.

Any and all criticism of Jake Plummer must cease and desist immediately! Tia.

However, criticism of Jay Cutler is not only allowed but encouraged in any thread.

Carry on.......

[T.K.O.]

I say..... we start TB. We are already one of the worst teams... lets use the season as a training tool.

how the hell are we one of the worst teams when we havnt played a game yet.....
does that mean the colts are 10 times worse than the bengals?
i can't figure out why you would even watch a bronco game this year "were going to lose them all anyway.....right?
our coach was the oc for the longest winning streak in nfl history,our d has shown marked improvement in one short offseason and we have arguably the best recieving group in the nfl + we just drafted our first 1st round rb in decades.....so unless orton/simms/branstater can single handedly **** all that at once i think its safe to say we are in as good a shape as we were going into last season.and we had to choke for the final 1/4 of the season just to keep from stumbling to the afcw title.:salute:

[topscribe]

I dont' either.. at all. He's not ready. But what does Orton's 'readiness' really get us??

See, the problem is, you are assuming Orton is bad.

Some of us do not make that assumption.

So you are not making sense unless you can begin to document your dispersions.

-----

[MOtorboat]

Per Jrwiz.

Any and all criticism of Jake Plummer must cease and desist immediately! Tia.

However, criticism of Jay Cutler is not only allowed but encouraged in any thread.

Carry on.......

Glad there's finally some sense of reality around here...

[Kaylore]

Except at the time, they were tied for the division lead. Their situation really doesn't compare at all.

:lol:Facts are stubborn things.

[Kaylore]

I say..... we start TB. We are already one of the worst teams.

I think the defeatist attitude is the most despicable when it brings people to wanting to give up the season before a single game has been played. Talk about worst attitude in the world. "We already suck so let's start a rookie, trade all our players and tank the season." What a piss poor attitude.

[Shazam!]

I'd be fine seeing Brandstater if the season is lost or Orton falters, but I think Kyle will be ok. I'm all for a young QB getting his ears wet.

[Ravage!!!]

I think the defeatist attitude is the most despicable when it brings people to wanting to give up the season before a single game has been played. Talk about worst attitude in the world. "We already suck so let's start a rookie, trade all our players and tank the season." What a piss poor attitude.

Sorry if I don't bow down to your almighty outlook, but I see it as a realistic perspective. I'm one that is willing to admit and see that THIS season isnt going anywhere. "Throwing away the season and trading everyone off" issn't what I said. We have all accepted that this season is a season for GROWTh. Learning the systme, building the defense..getting personnel to actually run a 34. If PART of that Growth is allowing a young QB to get experience so he's ready to lead this team.... THAN DAMN EFFING RIGHT I'm willing to throw him into the friggin starting lineup and let him learn!

What do you think teams do when they use their first over-all pick on a QB??? you think they don't want to start a rookie QB? they know they have to put him in the lineup.... and LEARN. You think this team is actually a contender.. FINE. Let your orange-lenses lead your way for you. But don't you DARE try to declare yourself to be some kind of "better fan" simply because you don't allow yourself to have a tiny bit of realism in your expectations for this team.

The worst kind of attitude, are those that put themselves ABOVE others because they don't see the team in the same light. Thats pretty PISS POOR.

[Shazam!]

Maybe if nearly every single one of your posts werent always so negative about this team Rav, people wouldn't respond like that. One doesnt have to be a clairvoyant to see that.

[silkamilkamonico]

This is how I see it.

I really like Brandstater. The kid's tall and mobile, smart, accurate, very good arm, and sees the field well. He seems like one of those players that's in control and visions of being efficient. Cutler was fun to watch because he was tough and has an explosive arm that really pops the ball. Brandstater is fun because he's calm in the pocket and plays within the system. I think he could be the future for Denver and I just wanna find out now.

It would be fun to watch his growth process this year throughout the year. I feel like McDaniels would do a good job putting him in a situation where he could be successful this year. Maybe not big numbers, but helping the defense out with a long drawn out ball control offense that can emphasize the run and short passes.

Start Brandstater!!

[topscribe]

Sorry if I don't bow down to your almighty outlook, but I see it as a realistic perspective. I'm one that is willing to admit and see that THIS season isnt going anywhere. "Throwing away the season and trading everyone off" issn't what I said. We have all accepted that this season is a season for GROWTh. Learning the systme, building the defense..getting personnel to actually run a 34. If PART of that Growth is allowing a young QB to get experience so he's ready to lead this team.... THAN DAMN EFFING RIGHT I'm willing to throw him into the friggin starting lineup and let him learn!

What do you think teams do when they use their first over-all pick on a QB??? you think they don't want to start a rookie QB? they know they have to put him in the lineup.... and LEARN. You think this team is actually a contender.. FINE. Let your orange-lenses lead your way for you. But don't you DARE try to declare yourself to be some kind of "better fan" simply because you don't allow yourself to have a tiny bit of realism in your expectations for this team.

The worst kind of attitude, are those that put themselves ABOVE others because they don't see the team in the same light. Thats pretty PISS POOR.

The fact you don't see the team as a contender puts you in the same light as
one who does. Those more realistic among us do not really know how the
team will do this year, and we say we don't.

-----

[shank]

The fact you don't see the team as a contender puts you in the same light as
one who does. Those more realistic among us do not really know how the
team will do this year, and we say we don't.

-----

that's very socratic of you to say, top. and i agree with you.