Report: Jets want Broncos' Marshall

[Lonestar]

September 2, 2009 11:38 AM


Posted by ESPN.com’s Bill Williamson

Newsday reports that the New York Jets are exploring a trade for suspended Denver receiver Brandon Marshall.

The real question is: Are the Denver Broncos considering trading Marshall?

ESPN’s Ed Werder reports that Denver sources claim the team has had no contact with the Jets. From the folks in Denver I’ve talked to, the Broncos are still reluctant to trade Marshall.

Now, after his suspension and the events leading up to it, the Broncos are more willing to listen. But still they want at least a first-rounder for Marshall.

Overall, though, the Broncos would rather keep Marshall this year and get some production out of him. Remember, the Broncos are trying to make a stand After the Jay Cutler fiasco, they want to make sure the locker room knows it is not in control. If Denver trades Marshall it will be on the team's terms.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/3288/report-jets-want-marshall

[CoachChaz]

If anyone offers a 1st rounder for him, you jump on it.


But I highly doubt that happens

[Lonestar]

Wednesday, September 2, 2009


The New York Jets and Baltimore Ravens might consider trading for Brandon Marshall. But at this time, neither team is having active trade discussions with the Broncos, who are willing to deal Marshall for the right price.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4439405&name=schefter_adam&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4439405%26name%3dsche fter_adam

if someone is an insider and would like to post the rest of the report?

[Lonestar]

Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:46 am EDT


By MJD

Bob Glauber of Newsday.com reports that they are. He cites a league source in saying that the Jets are interested in trading for Brandon Marshall, but are unlikely to give up the first-round pick that the Broncos would want in return.

And there's the rub. At 25 years old, Marshall is unquestionably a first-round talent, but the baggage he carries with him puts a serious dent in his value. If you're the Broncos, and you're a little light in the talent department right now, can you afford to give up Marshall for less than market value? Can you afford to keep him around if he's going to be a distraction?

It's easy to see why the Jets would be willing to take a chance on him, though, especially if the price is at all discounted right now. He's a brilliant talent, and (up until now, anyway) no one had ever complained about him being a bad teammate. Attitude issues aside, he'd be about the ideal wide receiver to put on the field with rookie quarterback Mark Sanchez(notes).

Honestly, I'd like the Jets chances to compete in the East a whole lot better if their top two receivers were Marshall and Jericho Cotchery.

Marshall is currently serving a team-imposed suspension that lasts through Saturday 5th.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Jets-to-consider-professional-nuisance-Brandon-M?urn=nfl,186749

[claymore]

The Broncos are just posturing. If Marshall still wants to go, he will go.

[Ravage!!!]

we will NOT get a first round for him. No way.. no how. Better hope for a 2nd or a third, and jump on that.

[underrated29]

schefeter reported we wanted a player, 1st and 3rd- which no one will give and we will not stray from.



also someone reported- espn? that the Broncos are watching the jets closely for tampering. Broncos feeel the jets might be trying to tamper with brandon and give him hope that we will ship him out...




Brandon is not going anywhere.

[Traveler]

How about not trading him at all and making him do what the other 75 team mates are doing. Which is getting for the the 09 season.

[claymore]

How about not trading him at all and making him do what the other 75 team mates are doing. Which is getting for the the 09 season.

Because we cannot force him do anything. If we could I would be all for it.

He holds all the cards.

[CoachChaz]

Because we cannot force him do anything. If we could I would be all for it.

He holds all the cards.


?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????

[roomemp]

Because we cannot force him do anything. If we could I would be all for it.

He holds all the cards.

We could force him to sit on the bench all year

[Lonestar]

We could force him to sit on the bench all year

or inactive..

[underrated29]

We could force him to sit on the bench all year

yes we certainly could.


My guess is he runs out of cash and gets his butt in for game 1 and from there on out. Unfortunately i dont see us winning much anymore and still see him wanting out at the end of the year. But then atleast we can restrict his tender and get a #1 if we dont keep him.

My money is he stays, he plays, he gets paid.

[claymore]

We could force him to sit on the bench all year
No we cant. Its covered under article 4 of the CBA.

or inactive..
Nope, Article 4. Thank Terrell Owens.

yes we certainly could.


My guess is he runs out of cash and gets his butt in for game 1 and from there on out. Unfortunately i dont see us winning much anymore and still see him wanting out at the end of the year. But then atleast we can restrict his tender and get a #1 if we dont keep him.

My money is he stays, he plays, he gets paid.

All we can do is sit him for 4 weeks. It will cost him 550k. If he rides pine, we have to prove he isnt the best WR, which will be a Players association grievence filed by Marshall.

Marshall gets paid either way. And I doubt that scare him very much.

[claymore]

No we cant. Its covered under article 4 of the CBA.

Nope, Article 4. Thank Terrell Owens.


All we can do is sit him for 4 weeks. It will cost him 550k. If he rides pine, we have to prove he isnt the best WR, which will be a Players association grievence filed by Marshall.

Marshall gets paid either way. And I doubt that scare him very much.

If we keep him till next year, all he has to do is report to training camp. If he doesnt report within a certain amount of time, he forgoes his yearly salary.

[NightTrainLayne]

No we cant. Its covered under article 4 of the CBA.

Nope, Article 4. Thank Terrell Owens.


All we can do is sit him for 4 weeks. It will cost him 550k. If he rides pine, we have to prove he isnt the best WR, which will be a Players association grievence filed by Marshall.

Marshall gets paid either way. And I doubt that scare him very much.

You can suspend him for detrimental conduct for a maximum of 4 weeks for each incident.

If he's gone four weeks and loses over half a million in coin and STILL wants to play games, he can be suspended again for a maximum of four weeks for any new incidents of detrimental conduct, which would mean AGAIN a loss of half a million.

I don't see that situation as BM having all the cards. Especially since he's broke right now.

[claymore]

You can suspend him for detrimental conduct for a maximum of 4 weeks for each incident.

If he's gone four weeks and loses over half a million in coin and STILL wants to play games, he can be suspended again for a maximum of four weeks for any new incidents of detrimental conduct, which would mean AGAIN a loss of half a million.

I don't see that situation as BM having all the cards. Especially since he's broke right now.

Thats what we (JR and I) were trying to clarify yesterday. I think If it was 4 weeks for every incdent TO wouldnt have gotten payed to be inactive.

I think its a 4weeks at year thing.

If we can do multiple 4 week suspensions Then I agree. Suspend his ass over and over.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

If the Jets are interested and the Broncos need a player, I'd look for Leon Washington at RB who would be an upgrade over several guys we have, a good change of pace guy and an excellent returner. I'd actually toss Marshall for Leon and a pick.

[MOtorboat]

Thats what we (JR and I) were trying to clarify yesterday. I think If it was 4 weeks for every incdent TO wouldnt have gotten payed to be inactive.

I think its a 4weeks at year thing.

If we can do multiple 4 week suspensions Then I agree. Suspend his ass over and over.

You have to have solid evidence each time though, and that's where the Union steps in. They wouldn't argue the first four-gamer after his actions last week. But if he came back and had two practices and nothing documented happened and he was suspended again, then they might question it.

[Northman]

If the Jets are interested and the Broncos need a player, I'd look for Leon Washington at RB who would be an upgrade over several guys we have, a good change of pace guy and an excellent returner. I'd actually toss Marshall for Leon and a pick.

Not only that but his ST's work is great as well. But, i think Jets know how valuable he is in that spot as well.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Not only that but his ST's work is great as well. But, i think Jets know how valuable he is in that spot as well.

Yeah. I think that the Jets might be willing to part with them since they got Shonne Green in the draft, but he is a valuable commodity. He's one of the only FSU players at RB who have recently had success in the NFL. He's one of my favorite little guys!

[Northman]

Yeah. I think that the Jets might be willing to part with them since they got Shonne Green in the draft, but he is a valuable commodity. He's one of the only FSU players at RB who have recently had success in the NFL. He's one of my favorite little guys!

When it comes to ST's play there are two guys i would love to have. Make that 3. Cribbs, Burleson, and Washington. Could throw Hester in there as well but i think its really safe to assume he is a Bear for life.

[claymore]

You have to have solid evidence each time though, and that's where the Union steps in. They wouldn't argue the first four-gamer after his actions last week. But if he came back and had two practices and nothing documented happened and he was suspended again, then they might question it.

I just read it at 4 weeks.


The collective bargaining agreement states that a player can be suspended for up to four games without pay for conduct detrimental to the team. However, the Eagles could decide to pay Owens to stay home the rest of the season.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/eagles_suspend_terrell_owens_indefinitely_-_yahoo_news/

The last part of the above bolded quote was what the TO rule changed.


Under terms of the NFL’s collective bargaining agreement, a player can be suspended for a maximum of four games for conduct detrimental to his team. (Same article)

I cannot find any proof that we can suspend a player for more than 4 games. I find that you can do it for one week, 2 weeks 3 weeks, and 4 weeks, but nowhere does it say you can do it for five weeks or in multiples of 4.

If we cant do that. Than we have zero leverage.

[roomemp]

No we cant. Its covered under article 4 of the CBA.

Well.......technically he would be our 5th wide receiver. I still consider that the bench though

[claymore]

Well.......technically he would be our 5th wide receiver. I still consider that the bench though

He wants to stay on the bench . Thats the problem.

[MOtorboat]

I just read it at 4 weeks.

The last part of the above bolded quote was what the TO rule changed.

I cannot find any proof that we can suspend a player for more than 4 games. I find that you can do it for one week, 2 weeks 3 weeks, and 4 weeks, but nowhere does it say you can do it for five weeks or in multiples of 4.

If we cant do that. Than we have zero leverage.

I still don't know in what world you're in when you say Denver doesn't have any leverage. That's just ridiculous and flat-out wrong.

But as I stated in the above post Clay, if he came back after four games and did something similar, he could be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team a second time.

[Poet]

Marshall holds no cards. If the Broncos make him eat bench his worth drops. That's the funny thing about great players who get in trouble a lot, they have to be on the field to be worth anything to a team.

Marshall is already a laughing stock amongst the league. He makes what Ocho pulled last year look like Ocho was a team player.

Claymore, look at the entire situation. Marshall is coming off of surgery, he's already proven he's an idiot off the field, he is one slip up from 4 games minimum suspension. He's not a big TD WR and he drops a lot of balls. He's a very good WR but he's not an elite WR and believe me I can pull up all sorts of numbers that prove my point on that.

If the team decides he doesn't get to play he doesn't get to play. No one will know how he really came back from his injury and he will have all sorts of rust.

He has ZERO power.

[Northman]

Marshall is coming off of surgery, he's already proven he's an idiot off the field, he is one slip up from 4 games minimum suspension.

Yea, that injury thing has got to be a big concern for teams even the ones that are interested in him. Sure, there could be a reward but with his off the field issues im not really sure how much a team is willing to give up to get him. Without Brandon actually performing on the field no team has any idea how his health is and taking Brandon's word for it just isnt going to sit well. One thing the broadcasters here in Bmore were talking about was if they were interested in Brandon they would have to get him to pass a physical before they would even consider anything at all.

[claymore]

I still don't know in what world you're in when you say Denver doesn't have any leverage. That's just ridiculous and flat-out wrong.

But as I stated in the above post Clay, if he came back after four games and did something similar, he could be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team a second time.
If you can find me proof of this ever happening, or being a real option I will agree with you.

I cant find it.

Every player that has ever been punished the maximum amount has been a total of 4 games.

They (eagles) didnt pay TO to stay at the house and work out getting full pay and benifits because they thought it was the right thing to do.

They did it because they could only fine him 4 game checks, and keep him away from their facilities for 4 games. TOTAl.

Randy Moss, Jerry Porter, TO.... all 4 game suspensions. No one has ever been suspended for more than 4 games.

Only the NFL can do that.

Find me one example that we can take more than 4 game checks and 25% of Marshalls pro rated signing bonus and I will say the Broncos have leverage.

Until then, I will say that Marshall is laughing at the Broncos, and we cant do shit about it.

[Poet]

Yea, that injury thing has got to be a big concern for teams even the ones that are interested in him. Sure, there could be a reward but with his off the field issues im not really sure how much a team is willing to give up to get him. Without Brandon actually performing on the field no team has any idea how his health is and taking Brandon's word for it just isnt going to sit well. One thing the broadcasters here in Bmore were talking about was if they were interested in Brandon they would have to get him to pass a physical before they would even consider anything at all.

And here's the kicker about that; if the Broncos don't want to trade him he CAN'T give them a physical. That means the trade would have to be so staggering for the Broncos that it's not them giving into Marshall, it's them going OMG WINDFALL!

Marshall has no power. He has less leverage then Boldin or Ocho did because he's not as established as they are AND they both do the whole "not getting arrested" thing.

Marshall screwed himself over. Had to decided to not hit women and whatnot he would have a nice fat contract.

[Magnificent Seven]

Trade Marshall for either a stud player or 1st round draft pick. Then, sign Marvin Harrison.

[Poet]

Claymore, he would have leverage, a TON of leverage if and only if he was not coming off of surgery and was not a mess up away from a 4 game suspension.

How does he have leverage, what can he actually do? He wants to be traded or a new contract. He can't make the team do either one. He has to do what the team says or get fined and lose money.

Here's the other thign for you, I bet you he's close to being broke. Attornies aren't cheap and we already know that he loves to go out and party. With party comes women,fast cars, jewelry, etc etc etc. He loves the flashy life, and his fines are going to kill him monetarily.

He is powerless. The only way he wins is if another team gives up a windfall for him and that isn't going to happen. He's Brandon Marshall, not Jerry Rice.

[Northman]

Had to decided to not hit women and whatnot he would have a nice fat contract.

A long time ago. He most likely would of been a 1st or 2nd rounder had he kept his nose clean. Just goes back to our whole "accountability" thing. Its easy to pass the buck because people get so enamored with his physical talent but ive seen plenty of great receivers who are great without the headcase issue. Despite Ocho's antics i do believe his are more frustration with not winning than trying to purposely dismantle his team. The fact that he went and kicked a FG and kickoff when he really didnt need to tells me the guy is a team player regardless. I think he would be better off dropping the endzone sillyness but he is worlds' better in character and on the field than Marshall or even TO at this point.

[Day1BroncoFan]

If you can find me proof of this ever happening, or being a real option I will agree with you.

I cant find it.

Every player that has ever been punished the maximum amount has been a total of 4 games.

They (eagles) didnt pay TO to stay at the house and work out getting full pay and benifits because they thought it was the right thing to do.

They did it because they could only fine him 4 game checks, and keep him away from their facilities for 4 games. TOTAl.

Randy Moss, Jerry Porter, TO.... all 4 game suspensions. No one has ever been suspended for more than 4 games.

Only the NFL can do that.

Find me one example that we can take more than 4 game checks and 25% of Marshalls pro rated signing bonus and I will say the Broncos have leverage.

Until then, I will say that Marshall is laughing at the Broncos, and we cant do shit about it.

Think about it Clay, if someone does something wrong, are punished and server their time it's fine. If they go do the same thing again they get punished again but can't be punished for the same offense obviously. ;)

[Traveler]

Because we cannot force him do anything. If we could I would be all for it.

He holds all the cards.

Nice attempt at sacrasm.

Brandon might want a new contract, but he understands one thing. He wants to keep all of his 2 million+ salary for 09. Marshall didn't jeapordize it by holding out of training camp.

Brandon definitely won't do anything to lose money now that the season is at hand because the contracts for active players kicks in for real. He realizes any behaviour contrary to the team goals beginning September 6th will result in losing a large portion of of his salary. He holds no cards or has any leverage.

[Ravage!!!]

I still don't know in what world you're in when you say Denver doesn't have any leverage. That's just ridiculous and flat-out wrong.

But as I stated in the above post Clay, if he came back after four games and did something similar, he could be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team a second time.

I don't think they can. I believe the union would NOT allow that to happen. Those are disciplinary actions that result directly in taking away 25% of a person's salary (4 game suspension). You have to have MORE than simply saying "conduct detrimental" in order to then take MORE money from a player that has a contract.

If you feel that player is so detrimental to your team, and don't wish to pay him, then you are more than welcome to fire/release that player and allow him to find another place of employment. But you can not simply keep a man from making a living (getting paid) because you determine his actions to be "detrimental" to the team.

[underrated29]

Yea, that injury thing has got to be a big concern for teams even the ones that are interested in him. Sure, there could be a reward but with his off the field issues im not really sure how much a team is willing to give up to get him. Without Brandon actually performing on the field no team has any idea how his health is and taking Brandon's word for it just isnt going to sit well. One thing the broadcasters here in Bmore were talking about was if they were interested in Brandon they would have to get him to pass a physical before they would even consider anything at all.



Here is my problem with this injury bull crap. Just like all the other propoganda the media has twisted everyones minds and brainwashed them. Brandons hip may or may not be fine. It is not deteriorating though, we do know that.

But----BRANDON PLAYED ALL LAST YEAR WITH THE INJURY, WITHOUT IT BEING FIXED.

So tell me, all the teams that see it as a risk, how do you think he is going to play with this hip thing....????????????



Exactly! He will play damn well!

And now that it is fixed he should play even better.


The hip is not an issue and peoples minds have been warped from the media.

(not calling you out Northman, but your post just had the info on the balt radio guys and such.)

[dogfish]

If the Jets are interested and the Broncos need a player, I'd look for Leon Washington at RB who would be an upgrade over several guys we have, a good change of pace guy and an excellent returner. I'd actually toss Marshall for Leon and a pick.

i definitely appreciate washington's ability, he's a good player-- but we don't need him. . . aside from being a bit faster, i don't see much he can do out of the backfield that knowshon can't already do, or learn to do with a bit of work. . . i'd say washington is probably a better receiver, but knowshon has a lot of promise in that area. . . and i don't know that he's a better returner than royal-- it would be nice to have another dynamic guy we can put back there to keep eddie fresh for offense, but alphonso smith's supposed to be that guy. . . and with moreno and hillis, thewre wouldn't be enough touches to go around in the backfield, and somebody would get underutilized. . . with buck as a solid third option, we're more or less set at RB. . . besides which, leon wants a fat new contract-- do we really want to tie up more money at a position where we're already pretty strong, and can probably find a comparable player in the fourth rounbd or later next year?

nah. . . IF we were to trade marshall in a deal that involves getting a player in return, it really needs to be a defensive player unless somebody wants to offer us a QUALITY option at QB. . . which is unlikely. . . i think a trade of picks is more likely at this point, but if we were going to get a player from the jets i'd take david harris. . . .



The fact that he went and kicked a FG and kickoff when he really didnt need to tells me the guy is a team player regardless. I think he would be better off dropping the endzone sillyness but he is worlds' better in character and on the field than Marshall or even TO at this point.

please! he did that shit because he's the world's biggest attention whore and he'll do ANYTHING to get the cameras to focus on him, to get people to talk about him. . . anything to feed his monstrous ego. . . the guy raced a friggin' HORSE last offseason! he's desperate to stay in the spotlight. . .

don't get me wrong, i really don't have anything against the guy-- i agree that he's mostly harmless compared to nutjobs like TO-- but i'm not buying for a second that he ever does a single damn thing with anyone in mind besides himself. . .

[claymore]

Claymore, he would have leverage, a TON of leverage if and only if he was not coming off of surgery and was not a mess up away from a 4 game suspension.

How does he have leverage, what can he actually do? He wants to be traded or a new contract. He can't make the team do either one. He has to do what the team says or get fined and lose money.

Here's the other thign for you, I bet you he's close to being broke. Attornies aren't cheap and we already know that he loves to go out and party. With party comes women,fast cars, jewelry, etc etc etc. He loves the flashy life, and his fines are going to kill him monetarily.

He is powerless. The only way he wins is if another team gives up a windfall for him and that isn't going to happen. He's Brandon Marshall, not Jerry Rice.He has all the cards. If he has already accepted he will lose 550 thousand dollars, then there iisnt anything else we can do.

He doesnt want to play here, and he is taking an educated gamble that he will lose more money playing for us than forcing his way out.


Think about it Clay, if someone does something wrong, are punished and server their time it's fine. If they go do the same thing again they get punished again but can't be punished for the same offense obviously. ;)
Show me where we can punish him more than 4 game checks and 25% of the pro rated signing bonus and I will agree.

Nice attempt at sacrasm.

Brandon might want a new contract, but he understands one thing. He wants to keep all of his 2 million+ salary for 09. Marshall didn't jeapordize it by holding out of training camp.

Brandon definitely won't do anything to lose money now that the season is at hand because the contracts for active players kicks in for real. He realizes any behaviour contrary to the team goals beginning September 6th will result in losing a large portion of of his salary. He holds no cards or has any leverage.I wasnt being sarcastic. If he held out of training camp he would have lost it all.

Since he went to Training camp, all we can do is the show of force 2 game preseason deal, and escalate it to the 4 game deal. Then we cant do anything whatsoever to him. Nothing. We cant keep him from practice, from playing, etc.

He can fake injuries to get out of whatever he wants. TO did it. All of it, the script is there.

To got all of his money from the Eagles, then a fat ass contract from Dallas.


I don't think they can. I believe the union would NOT allow that to happen. Those are disciplinary actions that result directly in taking away 25% of a person's salary (4 game suspension). You have to have MORE than simply saying "conduct detrimental" in order to then take MORE money from a player that has a contract.

If you feel that player is so detrimental to your team, and don't wish to pay him, then you are more than welcome to fire/release that player and allow him to find another place of employment. But you can not simply keep a man from making a living (getting paid) because you determine his actions to be "detrimental" to the team.
Exactly. I do not see how the Broncos have leverage.

Marshall has decided to leave. After the 4 games its gonna be a circus.

[Northman]

Here is my problem with this injury bull crap. Just like all the other propoganda the media has twisted everyones minds and brainwashed them. Brandons hip may or may not be fine. It is not deteriorating though, we do know that.

But----BRANDON PLAYED ALL LAST YEAR WITH THE INJURY, WITHOUT IT BEING FIXED.

So tell me, all the teams that see it as a risk, how do you think he is going to play with this hip thing....????????????



Exactly! He will play damn well!

And now that it is fixed he should play even better.


The hip is not an issue and peoples minds have been warped from the media.

(not calling you out Northman, but your post just had the info on the balt radio guys and such.)


Fine, and decent arguement however we really dont know if he is fine. He did play well last year no a bad hip but we also know sometimes after surgery that not is all well. So far, without anyone seeing what he can do on the field its still a question mark. Even those like Anita Marks in Bmore who would like to have Marshall understand that the health issue needs to be cleared up before taking the plunge. Media or not, if Marshall plays for Denver and some other team and tanks what then? You cant just assume he is better based off surgery.

[Northman]

please! he did that shit because he's the world's biggest attention whore and he'll do ANYTHING to get the cameras to focus on him, to get people to talk about him. . . anything to feed his monstrous ego. . . the guy raced a friggin' HORSE last offseason! he's desperate to stay in the spotlight. . .

don't get me wrong, i really don't have anything against the guy-- i agree that he's mostly harmless compared to nutjobs like TO-- but i'm not buying for a second that he ever does a single damn thing with anyone in mind besides himself. . .

Im sure that was part of it, he does like the media. But, if he didnt take it seriously he would of just shanked it. I mean afterall, it was the preseason but he treated it seriously never the less and i give him kudos for that. If it were me i would of kicked it into the back of the Olineman's head. :lol:

[Ravage!!!]

YOu know.. it does make you wonder about our medical staff. First we have Al Wilson making a claim against the Broncos because we put him back in the games despite his injuries......injuries that were cleared by our medical staff.

Marshall is pretty upset with our medical staff because they misdiagnosed his hip, which he played on all last year, and then found a second opinion which found he needed surgery (additional surgery?), and has publicly stated that he would NOT let our medical staff near him anymore (why he chose to rehab in florida).

[Northman]

YOu know.. it does make you wonder about our medical staff. First we have Al Wilson making a claim against the Broncos because we put him back in the games despite his injuries......injuries that were cleared by our medical staff.

Marshall is pretty upset with our medical staff because they misdiagnosed his hip, which he played on all last year, and then found a second opinion which found he needed surgery (additional surgery?), and has publicly stated that he would NOT let our medical staff near him anymore (why he chose to rehab in florida).

Thats one thing i will agree with you about. Our medical staff sucks to all high hell. The fact we still have them is troublesome.

[Poet]

Dogfish, you realize that he raced the horse for kids in Ethiopia right? The same kids that he went and visited.

I believe he was ASKED to kick the FG and THEN volunteered to do the kickoff.

[Day1BroncoFan]

YOu know.. it does make you wonder about our medical staff. First we have Al Wilson making a claim against the Broncos because we put him back in the games despite his injuries......injuries that were cleared by our medical staff.

Marshall is pretty upset with our medical staff because they misdiagnosed his hip, which he played on all last year, and then found a second opinion which found he needed surgery (additional surgery?), and has publicly stated that he would NOT let our medical staff near him anymore (why he chose to rehab in florida).

Maybe this is why we have so many injuries too. I have been wondering about that.

[skycoyote]

Ive questioned for years the Greeks ability. They mis-diagnosed Cutler's diabetes. Quote from Cutler, "I lost 35 pounds the second half of the ’07 season. I usually play at 235 and I played the last game in December at 200. And we talked to the trainers and doctors and a lot of the consensus was, “It’s just stress.” I couldn’t get through the first 10 minutes of a workout. I was getting up eight, nine, 10 times a night to go to the bathroom, my mouth was always dry—just the classic symptoms of diabetes."

[Tned]

If anyone offers a 1st rounder for him, you jump on it.


But I highly doubt that happens

Some tweets today in this regard from Frank Scwhab (Springs Gazette), Lombardi and Schefter:


@fs3142 McD says there have been absolutely no discussions with any team abt Marshall

@VicLombardi I just received some tremendous insight on why the Broncos will NOT trade B-Marshall this season...details later

@Adam_Schefter Broncos willing to listen to offers for Brandon Marshall. But it will take player now and pick later, and there's nothing close right now.

[Northman]

Some tweets today in this regard from Frank Scwhab (Springs Gazette), Lombardi and Schefter:

Im intrigued by the middle tweet.

[Tned]

Nice attempt at sacrasm.

Brandon might want a new contract, but he understands one thing. He wants to keep all of his 2 million+ salary for 09. Marshall didn't jeapordize it by holding out of training camp.

Brandon definitely won't do anything to lose money now that the season is at hand because the contracts for active players kicks in for real. He realizes any behaviour contrary to the team goals beginning September 6th will result in losing a large portion of of his salary. He holds no cards or has any leverage.

Yep, if he gets suspended again, it is going to be for four games and over $500k, which is money he is not going to want to lose, as he is set to make more money this year than his first three years in the league combined.

[Tned]

Im intrigued by the middle tweet.

Me, too. It was sent a couple hours ago, but nothing new. Don't know if he is going to talk about it on CBS tonight or his radio show tomorrow, or when he will share this insight.

[TXBRONC]

Some tweets today in this regard from Frank Scwhab (Springs Gazette), Lombardi and Schefter:

When Lombardi says more details later is he talking about tweets or is talking about television?

[Northman]

Maybe this is why we have so many injuries too. I have been wondering about that.

The medical staff has had me miffed for a few years now. Im no medical doctor but our players do not seem to be conditioned the way they ought to or once were in Denver. Hamstrings, foot injuries, etc just seem to plague us more than any other team it seems like. I was hoping with the regime change that we would upgrade out medical staff but alas, nothing yet.

[Tned]

When Lombardi says more details later is he talking about tweets or is talking about television?

I have no idea.

[TXBRONC]

I have no idea.

Well you're no help. :D

[skycoyote]

The medical staff has had me miffed for a few years now. Im no medical doctor but our players do not seem to be conditioned the way they ought to or once were in Denver. Hamstrings, foot injuries, etc just seem to plague us more than any other team it seems like. I was hoping with the regime change that we would upgrade out medical staff but alas, nothing yet.

Even Romanowski use to complain about them. Maybe this would be a good thread.

[Lonestar]

He has all the cards. If he has already accepted he will lose 550 thousand dollars, then there iisnt anything else we can do.

He doesnt want to play here, and he is taking an educated gamble that he will lose more money playing for us than forcing his way out.


Show me where we can punish him more than 4 game checks and 25% of the pro rated signing bonus and I will agree.
I wasnt being sarcastic. If he held out of training camp he would have lost it all.

Since he went to Training camp, all we can do is the show of force 2 game preseason deal, and escalate it to the 4 game deal. Then we cant do anything whatsoever to him. Nothing. We cant keep him from practice, from playing, etc.

He can fake injuries to get out of whatever he wants. TO did it. All of it, the script is there.

To got all of his money from the Eagles, then a fat ass contract from Dallas.


Exactly. I do not see how the Broncos have leverage.

Marshall has decided to leave. After the 4 games its gonna be a circus.



do you really believe that the GM's and HC's that are salivating about him will see his only getting 60-80 passes 600-800 yards and a bunch of TD's this year and think he slipped or it was the systems he is now in and that if he is out of it he will not revert to 100 passes and 1100+ plus yards like he had before?

come on they are not stupid.. and if you think about it neither are you..

but every day he misses from playing and practicing diminishes his value in their eyes..

There is not a HC in the NFL that would not have suspended him for the crap he just played out..

[claymore]

do you really believe that the GM's and HC's that are salivating about him will see his only getting 60-80 passes 600-800 yards and a bunch of TD's this year and think he slipped or it was the systems he is now in and that if he is out of it he will not revert to 100 passes and 1100+ plus yards like he had before?

come on they are not stupid.. and if you think about it neither are you..

but every day he misses from playing and practicing diminishes his value in their eyes..

There is not a HC in the NFL that would not have suspended him for the crap he just played out..
How many of Ortons recievers have done that ("60-80 passes 600-800 yards ")? I think Forte was the leading reciever.

I know Im not stupid thank you for pointing that out. And neither is Marshalls Agent that is telling him when to act like a fool, and what his contract numbers are going to look like.

Vick just got out of prison and is making more money as a back up than marshall.

Marshall will get payed more on his next contract. Period.

[CoachChaz]

How many of Ortons recievers have done that ("60-80 passes 600-800 yards ")? I think Forte was the leading reciever.

I know Im not stupid thank you for pointing that out. And neither is Marshalls Agent that is telling him when to act like a fool, and what his contract numbers are going to look like.

Vick just got out of prison and is making more money as a back up than marshall.

Marshall will get payed more on his next contract. Period.

More...yes. What he thinks he should get...no chance in hell

[claymore]

More...yes. What he thinks he should get...no chance in hell

I will be glad when he is gone.

[Lonestar]

Ive questioned for years the Greeks ability. They mis-diagnosed Cutler's diabetes. Quote from Cutler, "I lost 35 pounds the second half of the ’07 season. I usually play at 235 and I played the last game in December at 200. And we talked to the trainers and doctors and a lot of the consensus was, “It’s just stress.” I couldn’t get through the first 10 minutes of a workout. I was getting up eight, nine, 10 times a night to go to the bathroom, my mouth was always dry—just the classic symptoms of diabetes."

as to the diabetes.. I raised this same argument last year but got beat down by the loyalists..

but i have to add to your post he was asked to come in for a blood test after the season was over and he decided or declined to do so..

God only knows if it happened through the year either.. Perhaps he had reasons not to want them looking at his blood levels.. Know one knows for sure what happened..

As for Al W.. I suspect he was also pushing them to get back into the game HARD being the competitor he was.. that is not excusing the doctors from releasing him if he was indeed damaged at the time..

[CoachChaz]

as to the diabetes.. I raised this same argument last year but got beat down by the loyalists..

but i have to add to your post he was asked to come in for a blood test after the season was over and he decided or declined to do so..

God only knows if it happened through the year either.. Perhaps he had reasons not to want them looking at his blood levels.. Know one knows for sure what happened..

As for Al W.. I suspect he was also pushing them to get back into the game HARD being the competitor he was.. that is not excusing the doctors from releasing him if he was indeed damaged at the time..

Interesting assessment, but in case you've been asleep...the players are always right and the organization is always wrong. Sorry

[Lonestar]

How many of Ortons recievers have done that ("60-80 passes 600-800 yards ")? I think Forte was the leading reciever.

I know Im not stupid thank you for pointing that out. And neither is Marshalls Agent that is telling him when to act like a fool, and what his contract numbers are going to look like.

Vick just got out of prison and is making more money as a back up than marshall.

Marshall will get payed more on his next contract. Period.

as I said GM's and HC are going to discount this year because of the changes in formats..

and IF Orton would have had marshall, and Eddie last year throw to HE may have had 60-80 plus passes to them.. and frankly the CHI system was to run first and play conservatively.. I do not think from what I have seen that Josh is going to runs first and NOT throw the ball much..

Give the professionals more credit please they KNOW what they are looking for..

So far I will not give his agent HIGH marks for allowing him to get to this point..

BM is not going anywhere until we allow it via getting great compensation for him.. and that means at least 2-4 more years in DEN until he straightens out..

one more year of contract, one more year as RFA, and then one to two years as franchise.. none of that time he gets gauranteed money.. which is what he is looking for..

[ydave77]

Because we cannot force him do anything. If we could I would be all for it.

He holds all the cards.

I don't quite get where or why you believe he holds all the cards. His main gripe is about his salary.

Brandon Marshall is currently scheduled to make to $2.198 million this yr. The NFL first rd tender for 2009 was 2.0 million. We have the power to tender him at roughly that level next yr. What makes you think he will be any happier making that much next yr?

His choices then would be to play well this yr, in which case we're happy and get productivity out of him. In which case somebody will decide he is worth the first rd tender, and we get a first rder for him, and he likely gets his big new contract. Otherwise he doesnt learn the playbook, gets suspended 4 games (possibly more, for worsening infractions, that still hasnt' been proven), and is benched with pay the other 12 games.

Now if we decide to play hardball we apply the first rd tender even though he hasnt played well for us, which nobody will pay, and then Marshall again has to decide whether he will give 100% for us, or repeat his benching. If he plays well, he gets his big money. If he doesnt he, or more likely someone more intelligent than him, will hopefully explain it has been 2 yrs since his last good yr, which happens to be pre-hip surgery, and there is no way he will get that big contract he wants...

He loses!

The cost to us is minimal considering the cap this yr was 125million.

In todays contract world, 2 million is chump change...thats backup QB money, thats long snapper money. If the broncos want to punish him, we have all the cards to do so.

[Lonestar]

Me, too. It was sent a couple hours ago, but nothing new. Don't know if he is going to talk about it on CBS tonight or his radio show tomorrow, or when he will share this insight.

I'll beleive Adam S before lombardi.. and they seem to conflict a bit..

[Lonestar]

Yep, if he gets suspended again, it is going to be for four games and over $500k, which is money he is not going to want to lose, as he is set to make more money this year than his first three years in the league combined.



do you suppose he can get by till mid OCT before getting a paycheck a afterall he has only got preseason checks so far this year.. whoops no he has not played in any of the games..

[Ravage!!!]

players don't get paid for pre-season games.

[MasterShake]

I'll trade Marshall for your Peanut Butter and Jelly Sammich!

[Ravage!!!]

I'll trade Marshall for your Peanut Butter and Jelly Sammich!

Hmmmm.. I don't know. My sammich is pretty good

[TXBRONC]

I'll trade Marshall for your Peanut Butter and Jelly Sammich!

Only if said peanut butter and jelly sammich can get us 80 or so catches this year. :D

[claymore]

as I said GM's and HC are going to discount this year because of the changes in formats..

and IF Orton would have had marshall, and Eddie last year throw to HE may have had 60-80 plus passes to them.. and frankly the CHI system was to run first and play conservatively.. I do not think from what I have seen that Josh is going to runs first and NOT throw the ball much..

Give the professionals more credit please they KNOW what they are looking for..

So far I will not give his agent HIGH marks for allowing him to get to this point..

BM is not going anywhere until we allow it via getting great compensation for him.. and that means at least 2-4 more years in DEN until he straightens out..

one more year of contract, one more year as RFA, and then one to two years as franchise.. none of that time he gets gauranteed money.. which is what he is looking for..
Are you prepaired to sit brandon on the bench and pay him 24 mill to do so? Thats what it would roughly cost to keep him there for 4 years.

Brandon marshall doesnt make any more money by playing for us. He risks his health and hurting his numbers.

Im not defending him, just being realistic on whats going to happen.

I don't quite get where or why you believe he holds all the cards. His main gripe is about his salary.

Brandon Marshall is currently scheduled to make to $2.198 million this yr. The NFL first rd tender for 2009 was 2.0 million. We have the power to tender him at roughly that level next yr. What makes you think he will be any happier making that much next yr?

His choices then would be to play well this yr, in which case we're happy and get productivity out of him. In which case somebody will decide he is worth the first rd tender, and we get a first rder for him, and he likely gets his big new contract. Otherwise he doesnt learn the playbook, gets suspended 4 games (possibly more, for worsening infractions, that still hasnt' been proven), and is benched with pay the other 12 games.

Now if we decide to play hardball we apply the first rd tender even though he hasnt played well for us, which nobody will pay, and then Marshall again has to decide whether he will give 100% for us, or repeat his benching. If he plays well, he gets his big money. If he doesnt he, or more likely someone more intelligent than him, will hopefully explain it has been 2 yrs since his last good yr, which happens to be pre-hip surgery, and there is no way he will get that big contract he wants...

He loses!

The cost to us is minimal considering the cap this yr was 125million.

In todays contract world, 2 million is chump change...thats backup QB money, thats long snapper money. If the broncos want to punish him, we have all the cards to do so.
Ive said my piece over and over. He isnt going to play for us. Like it or not, he will still get payed by us, and by whatever team gets him. Whether thats 4 years down the road or next week.

Brandon Marshall Wins. Broncos lose (unless we get a good trade). Tough guy treatment failed.

[Lonestar]

players don't get paid for pre-season games.

pretty sure they get a smaller amount PER GAME than usual unless that changed in the last CBA that is/was one of the complaints they are risking their careers while the owners get being bucks for gates..

[MasterShake]

Only if said peanut butter and jelly sammich can get us 80 or so catches this year. :D

I will put the peanut butter on our receivers gloves and they will all get 80+ catches.

[Ravage!!!]

pretty sure they get a smaller amount PER GAME than usual unless that changed in the last CBA that is/was one of the complaints they are risking their careers while the owners get being bucks for gates..

Maybe. But from what they were discussing on ESPN radio the other day, they don't. It was the discussion on how the pre-season games may never change because as of right now, the owners do get 2 free games to get ticket/parking/concession money without having to pay hte players.

Then the mentioned how some of the bigger names CHOOSE not to play in the pre-season games if they are a bit dinged up because the regular season is more important. Not sure they could simply choose to sit on the sidelines if they were getting paid to play.

[Lonestar]

Are you prepaired to sit brandon on the bench and pay him 24 mill to do so? Thats what it would roughly cost to keep him there for 4 years.

Brandon marshall doesnt make any more money by playing for us. He risks his health and hurting his numbers.

Im not defending him, just being realistic on whats going to happen.

Ive said my piece over and over. He isnt going to play for us. Like it or not, he will still get payed by us, and by whatever team gets him. Whether thats 4 years down the road or next week.

Brandon Marshall Wins. Broncos lose (unless we get a good trade). Tough guy treatment failed.

the real question is IS he prepared not to get guaranteed money for the next 4 years.. I suspect he will fold as 95% of the "labor" disputes the labor groups fold first..

AND

IF they can repeatedly suspend him W/O pay and I believe they can he basically works out for peanuts.. and we all know this is about GUARANTEED money up front..

[TXBRONC]

I will put the peanut butter on our receivers gloves and they will all get 80+ catches.

Wouldn't that be like using stickem?

[claymore]

the real question is IS he prepared not to get guaranteed money for the next 4 years.. I suspect he will fold as 95% of the "labor" disputes the labor groups fold first..

AND

IF they can repeatedly suspend him W/O pay and I believe they can he basically works out for peanuts.. and we all know this is about GUARANTEED money up front..

If you can find where theey can suspend him over and over it changes his leverage for sure.

If we keep him here for 4 years he gets a GUARANTEED 24 million. Minus 2 million for suspended games.

Sign me up!

[Lonestar]

Maybe. But from what they were discussing on ESPN radio the other day, they don't. It was the discussion on how the pre-season games may never change because as of right now, the owners do get 2 free games to get ticket/parking/concession money without having to pay hte players.

Then the mentioned how some of the bigger names CHOOSE not to play in the pre-season games if they are a bit dinged up because the regular season is more important. Not sure they could simply choose to sit on the sidelines if they were getting paid to play.


Hey it could have changed but quite a few years ago they were getting per diem, room board and game checks of 400-500 dollars per game played..

it was a ridiculously small amount but that was what was in the CBA.. now it could have changed last time.. They are not required to send me updates..

and it was a real bone of contention and IIRC one of the main reason the owners did not want at the time to go for a longer schedule they would have to pay the players more for those games.. right now it is pretty much Free money for the owners..

I am pretty sure that the preseason games are not built into the veterans contracts our than the per game money..

[Ravage!!!]

Hey it could have changed but quite a few years ago they were getting per diem, room board and game checks of 400-500 dollars per game played..

it was a ridiculously small amount but that was what was in the CBA.. now it could have changed last time.. They are not required to send me updates..

and it was a real bone of contention and IIRC one of the main reason the owners did not want at the time to go for a longer schedule they would have to pay the players more for those games.. right now it is pretty much Free money for the owners..

Hmm.. you may be right. Even if you are, I guess earning 500 bucks per game doesn't even constitute getting paid considering their normal paychecks. Thats like getting food rations (like we did in HS/college road trips).

[Tned]

pretty sure they get a smaller amount PER GAME than usual unless that changed in the last CBA that is/was one of the complaints they are risking their careers while the owners get being bucks for gates..

They said that the only thing Marshall lost with this suspension was the per diem, which I think was like $1800 total for the 10 days or so of his suspension. They get paid something like $1400 a week per diem during training camp, and that is all.

[Lonestar]

If you can find where theey can suspend him over and over it changes his leverage for sure.

If we keep him here for 4 years he gets a GUARANTEED 24 million. Minus 2 million for suspended games.

Sign me up!

But if they can suspend him all but for 3-4 games a year because of his ass clown time on the practice field they are not out money at all the because he is suspended without pay.. and then he is now 29+ years old and no resume but a bunch of suspensions..


and frankly most owners are not going to give him squat in guaranteed money if he gets suspended a couple three times this coming year..

I know I would not even with the up side there would be so many performance and personal conduct clauses in the contract it would take a back loader to bring it into the room..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

BMarsh has no leverage here. His agent is too smart to let him sit out/be benched. He will arrive to practice next week w/ his tail between his leags and be a good boy...or he won't get paid. I believe a trade is possible, but not likely. Denver won't back too far off of their asking price. I think it'll be a WR or LB prospect and a 1st or 2nd at the very least.

[Lonestar]

They said that the only thing Marshall lost with this suspension was the per diem, which I think was like $1800 total for the 10 days or so of his suspension. They get paid something like $1400 a week per diem during training camp, and that is all.

OK I stand corrected but he did not even get that when was his last REAL check for the Broncos?

[Lonestar]

Hmm.. you may be right. Even if you are, I guess earning 500 bucks per game doesn't even constitute getting paid considering their normal paychecks. Thats like getting food rations (like we did in HS/college road trips).

you got a lot more at your school than my daughter does.. :D

[TXBRONC]

Hmm.. you may be right. Even if you are, I guess earning 500 bucks per game doesn't even constitute getting paid considering their normal paychecks. Thats like getting food rations (like we did in HS/college road trips).

$2,000 for four games wont pay for much.

[Ravage!!!]

But if they can suspend him all but for 3-4 games a year because of his ass clown time on the practice field they are not out money at all the because he is suspended without pay.. and then he is now 29+ years old and no resume but a bunch of suspensions..


and frankly most owners are not going to give him squat in guaranteed money if he gets suspended a couple three times this coming year..

I know I would not even with the up side there would be so many performance and personal conduct clauses in the contract it would take a back loader to bring it into the room..

YOu can only suspend him for "detrimental to team" for UP to four games for the year. So unless he does soemthing outside the teams rules, and violates the NFL rules, the maximum number of games the Broncos can suspend him for is 4.

[Tned]

BMarsh has no leverage here. His agent is too smart to let him sit out/be benched. He will arrive to practice next week w/ his tail between his leags and be a good boy...or he won't get paid. I believe a trade is possible, but not likely. Denver won't back too far off of their asking price. I think it'll be a WR or LB prospect and a 1st or 2nd at the very least.

This is what it comes down to. The cost to Marshall of holding out is too high, and made worse (public opinion wise) after that video was released.

Unless the Broncos are blown away with an offer, they keep him on the roster, playing him pretty quickly or suspending him for four games, depending on what happens upon his return. Either way, they want him out on the field both helping them this year, and raising his trade value. Then they put a high tender on him after the season, which will give us a first and third when another team signs him. Another team will sign him, and will not have a problem giving him guaranteed money.

We see it every year in the NFL, teams will not pass on talent, even if there is baggage, hoping that a change of scenery will solve the off field problems.

[Ravage!!!]

you got a lot more at your school than my daughter does.. :D

:lol: I should have stated that I meant in comparison! I think go 5 bucks in HS! :beer:

[Tned]

OK I stand corrected but he did not even get that when was his last REAL check for the Broncos?

Probably week 17 of last season, as the Broncos didn't make the playoffs. As Putzier said in his interview, it cost him money to come to the Broncos training camp, as his expenses were more than the expense money (per diem) that he received.

[G_Money]

In todays contract world, 2 million is chump change...thats backup QB money, thats long snapper money. If the broncos want to punish him, we have all the cards to do so.

How does that play with FAs looking for money, or current players hoping for new contracts?

Players are going to want more money guaranteed from us than they'll take from other teams, because we've shown a propensity to screwing over players who screw us over. Eye for an eye sure sounds reasonable...to us. To players, it sounds like there are no mistakes allowed, and when you look at the league there are a lot of mistake-makers who go to pro bowls and win championships.

You can hold Marshall's feet to the fire and hope to "break him" and make him do what you want, but being "treated like men" is what players want, even if they ACT like spoiled babies.

We can be the place where that doesn't happen and all players have to actually be grown-ups. If we win, we can even make that work.

If we don't win, we're backing ourselves into a corner in future years not just with Marshall but with any other player with a hint of questionable off-the-field activity or drama-queen nature.

How we treat Cutler and Marshall is a signal to the free agents of 2010. They're watching. Some of them will watch and think, "A place where players say they can't get a straight answer from the team and are penalized and ridiculed as pro bowl players? Maybe I should see what the offers are like elsewhere..."

Players have friends on every team. "I'm thinking about signing with the Broncos - ask your boy Marshall what the hell happened last year and why he rode the bench the whole time," WILL come up.

I guess the question is whether all publicity is good publicity, because what we do with our players IS advertising to other players.

If we cared about fielding a team with Brandon Marshall as a full contributor we would have handled this differently. Punishing him in the dog house for the next however many years by telling him to dig a hole and then fill it up isn't gonna be good for morale or future free agents (or re-signing current players if they have other options).

And is it really punishment? He doesn't HAVE to play even when he's eligible. He can come up with phantom injuries so that he sits on the bench and collects his check. You can't make him a productive member of the team, and the longer it goes on, the worse our leverage is with other teams to get trade value for him, because they know either Marshall gets traded or we cut him...or we tie up a roster spot and millions of dollars in a player who won't see the field. He'd make more immediate money to play elsewhere but spending another year getting in great shape and not taking the weekly pounding of playing football is actually better for his next contract than slaving away for a guy he doesn't like and getting crushed by constant double teams is. Now that we've told him he'll get paid 3 million to play for us or to sit on our bench, I fully expect his response to be, "the bench looks awfully cozy, I think I'll take you up on your offer, thanks." :rolleyes:

"Punishing" him for the season makes you feel better but makes the situation worse, and you're still paying millions to a guy you're not paying to prove a point that's really only a message to outsiders to stay away. You can't punish him. Get rid of him.

~G

[TXBRONC]

This is what it comes down to. The cost to Marshall of holding out is too high, and made worse (public opinion wise) after that video was released.

Unless the Broncos are blown away with an offer, they keep him on the roster, playing him pretty quickly or suspending him for four games, depending on what happens upon his return. Either way, they want him out on the field both helping them this year, and raising his trade value. Then they put a high tender on him after the season, which will give us a first and third when another team signs him. Another team will sign him, and will not have a problem giving him guaranteed money.

We see it every year in the NFL, teams will not pass on talent, even if there is baggage, hoping that a change of scenery will solve the off field problems.

Whether either one of them will admit McDaniels and Marshall need each other.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don't think he needs BM at all. Where does it say that the elite WRs are needed to win a championship? Does TO have a ring? Moss? Ochocinco? Roy Williams? Last I checked, Marvin harrison is the last great WR to get a ring. Before that, i dunno. And Plaxico Burress is not a great WR.

Now who does? Hines Ward. Santonio Holmes. Who did the Pats win a SB with? Ravens? Buccaneers? McD doesn't need BMarsh. He needs team players who want to work hard and actually show up.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Brandon has a high value to the team, but I don't think it is a non-replaceable value. Quite frankly, I expect Royal to put up phenomenal numbers in this offense. I think Stokes and Gaffney can be extremely solid, and I like the potential in Kenny McKinley. I really think he could be a great weapon in our offense. I think the plan for the Broncos, well the hope, is that Marshall shows up this season and plays. If he plays well, the Broncos can send him elsewhere because of an assumed jump in value.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think he needs BM at all. Where does it say that the elite WRs are needed to win a championship? Does TO have a ring? Moss? Ochocinco? Roy Williams? Last I checked, Marvin harrison is the last great WR to get a ring. Before that, i dunno. And Plaxico Burress is not a great WR.

Now who does? Hines Ward. Santonio Holmes. Who did the Pats win a SB with? Ravens? Buccaneers? McD doesn't need BMarsh. He needs team players who want to work hard and actually show up.

McDaniels says he believes he can win this year I think becomes an tougher task without one of your best players. Besides that it benefits Orton to have him in there.

[ydave77]

Are you prepaired to sit brandon on the bench and pay him 24 mill to do so? Thats what it would roughly cost to keep him there for 4 years.

Brandon marshall doesnt make any more money by playing for us. He risks his health and hurting his numbers.

Im not defending him, just being realistic on whats going to happen.

Ive said my piece over and over. He isnt going to play for us. Like it or not, he will still get payed by us, and by whatever team gets him. Whether thats 4 years down the road or next week.

Brandon Marshall Wins. Broncos lose (unless we get a good trade). Tough guy treatment failed.

2 yrs from now is only 4 million...you dont think 2 yrs of sitting on the bench hurts the next contract brandon will be making? thats crazy...

[topscribe]

Because we cannot force him do anything. If we could I would be all for it.

He holds all the cards.

Marshall holds no cards at all. None. Nada. Zip.

The Broncos own his contract. They can make him sit the entire season, if not
at home, then on the bench. They can make him inactive the entire season.

He is only an RFA following this season. They can match or Franchise him
as a 4th round draft choice. The Broncos hold allllllll the cards. Period.

And I would make damn sure Marshall and the entire rest of the organization
know it, in no uncertain terms. :coffee:

-----

[claymore]

2 yrs from now is only 4 million...you dont think 2 yrs of sitting on the bench hurts the next contract brandon will be making? thats crazy...

Not so much. Vick makes allot more than 2 million and he just got out of prison.

I think worst case for all involved marshall sits for 2 years. He leaves, we get zero trade in return, and....... He gets a 1-2 year deal worth at least 5 mil a year.

Unless we blow up the players union. In that case I hope he gets 50K a year.

Bottom line, he could shoot someone in the face, go to jail for 2 years, get out, and make more than he does here in Denver.

[ydave77]

How does that play with FAs looking for money, or current players hoping for new contracts?

Players are going to want more money guaranteed from us than they'll take from other teams, because we've shown a propensity to screwing over players who screw us over. Eye for an eye sure sounds reasonable...to us. To players, it sounds like there are no mistakes allowed, and when you look at the league there are a lot of mistake-makers who go to pro bowls and win championships.

You can hold Marshall's feet to the fire and hope to "break him" and make him do what you want, but being "treated like men" is what players want, even if they ACT like spoiled babies.

We can be the place where that doesn't happen and all players have to actually be grown-ups. If we win, we can even make that work.

If we don't win, we're backing ourselves into a corner in future years not just with Marshall but with any other player with a hint of questionable off-the-field activity or drama-queen nature.

How we treat Cutler and Marshall is a signal to the free agents of 2010. They're watching. Some of them will watch and think, "A place where players say they can't get a straight answer from the team and are penalized and ridiculed as pro bowl players? Maybe I should see what the offers are like elsewhere..."

Players have friends on every team. "I'm thinking about signing with the Broncos - ask your boy Marshall what the hell happened last year and why he rode the bench the whole time," WILL come up.

I guess the question is whether all publicity is good publicity, because what we do with our players IS advertising to other players.

If we cared about fielding a team with Brandon Marshall as a full contributor we would have handled this differently. Punishing him in the dog house for the next however many years by telling him to dig a hole and then fill it up isn't gonna be good for morale or future free agents (or re-signing current players if they have other options).

And is it really punishment? He doesn't HAVE to play even when he's eligible. He can come up with phantom injuries so that he sits on the bench and collects his check. You can't make him a productive member of the team, and the longer it goes on, the worse our leverage is with other teams to get trade value for him, because they know either Marshall gets traded or we cut him...or we tie up a roster spot and millions of dollars in a player who won't see the field. He'd make more immediate money to play elsewhere but spending another year getting in great shape and not taking the weekly pounding of playing football is actually better for his next contract than slaving away for a guy he doesn't like and getting crushed by constant double teams is. Now that we've told him he'll get paid 3 million to play for us or to sit on our bench, I fully expect his response to be, "the bench looks awfully cozy, I think I'll take you up on your offer, thanks." :rolleyes:

"Punishing" him for the season makes you feel better but makes the situation worse, and you're still paying millions to a guy you're not paying to prove a point that's really only a message to outsiders to stay away. You can't punish him. Get rid of him.

~G

You bring up a good pt for future FA's....obviously you are worried about players noticing a trend, or a precedent being set. I am worried about the precedent of be a whiny b#$ch and we will trade you out of here so you get what you want. Its one thing if Marshall was in a vacuum, but obviously in light of Cutty being shipped to a place/team he loves, we cant have players leave so easily.
I dont think either is a great option. To me though if you have a sit down with Mars and tell him you have the option of keeping him for 2 yrs, at a price that wont hurt...maybe somehow he will realize that hurts him too, and the smarter thing for him is to play as well as he can, so someone thinks he is worth trading for.

no easy answer..but i dont think trading him for anything less than a 1st is good for the broncs. If we get less than that it will be obvious the player forced his way out, if we manage to get at least a first, maybe it will look more like we shipped him out on our terms. Though who woudl be stupid enough to give up a 1st for him at this pt...I wouldnt know

[claymore]

Marshall holds no cards at all. None. Nada. Zip.

The Broncos own his contract. They can make him sit the entire season, if not
at home, then on the bench. They can make him inactive the entire season.

He is only an RFA following this season. They can match or Franchise him
as a 4th round draft choice. The Broncos hold allllllll the cards. Period.

And I would make damn sure Marshall and the entire rest of the organization
know it, in no uncertain terms. :coffee:

-----

If you think that the Broncos only retaliation is to pay him 24 million dollars in the next 4 years is leverage then I dont know what to say.

Franchising a player requires you to average the top 5 highest paid players in the league and give that player the one year average. Which will be around 10 million dollars a year.

[ydave77]

Not so much. Vick makes allot more than 2 million and he just got out of prison.

I think worst case for all involved marshall sits for 2 years. He leaves, we get zero trade in return, and....... He gets a 1-2 year deal worth at least 5 mil a year.

Unless we blow up the players union. In that case I hope he gets 50K a year.

Bottom line, he could shoot someone in the face, go to jail for 2 years, get out, and make more than he does here in Denver.

Vick gets only 1.6 mill this yr, year two is a team option, so for the Eagles purposes its a one yr contract unless Vick is amazing in which case they can pick up the 2nd yr...

I think Mars will end up after that on a prove it contract for a few mill, cant imagine he woudl get 5 mill/yr after doing nothing for two yrs. I think my pt should have been that this is a lose-lose situation. We have the power to make Marshall lose big time, and he has the power to hurt us as well.

Roddy White signed for 6 yrs 50 mill...thats what Marshall wants. He doesnt want a 3 mill/yr contract 2 yrs from now. Sure its a lot for us to think about, but for him...that is a huge drop.

So Mars doesnt hold the cards, but unfortunately neither do we. We can hurt each other, or not.

[topscribe]

So why would that be a reason for the Broncos to bow to Marshall's wishes and
give him what he wants by shipping him off for less than what they should get
for him or cutting him? That is ludicrous.

If he does not appear on the field this year, he isn't going to draw all that much
in RFA next year . . . at least, the Broncos aren't losing anything to find out.
But do demonstrate to that locker room full of players that all a player has to
do is to demand a trade, and he can get one, is asinine.

Not on my watch would that happen . . . :tsk:

-----

Further:



Why The Broncos Won't Trade Brandon Marshall

Vic Lombardi DENVER (CBS4) ―

I know a lot of Bronco fans clamoring for a Brandon Marshall trade. And reports out of New York suggest they might even have a willing partner in the New York Jets. Marshall for a 1st round pick.

Well I'm here to tell you – not happening. Not this year.

Here's why: If the Broncos hold onto him this season and no collective bargaining agreement is reached, Marshall would automatically become a restricted free agent, which allows the Broncos to control his rights.

If the owners and union do indeed reach a labor agreement, Marshall could qualify as an "unrestricted" free agent, allowing him to go as he pleases. If that's the case, the Broncos could simply slap a franchise tag on him. And the going rate for a franchise receiver (according to several agents) is a 1st and 3rd round pick, minimum.

So why would the Broncos bite at the Jets offer? Just a 1st-rounder? Why not just hold onto Marshall for the season and then collect a 1st AND a 3rd at the end of the year? It doesn't make sense to trade him now, unless of course some desperate team makes the Broncos an offer they can't refuse. Are the Jets that desperate? Doubtful.

Also, I'm told Marshall is starting to see the light. (I know, I know, we've heard this before). But this is different. Earlier this week, Marshall extended an olive branch to Rod Smith. He's seeking Rod's help again. He's actually listening this time. Rod and Brandon have been working out together this week, working on the body AND the mind. That's great news for B-Marsh. He needs guidance in his life. And nobody can fill that role better than Rod Smith.

http://cbs4denver.com/sports/nfl.denver.broncos.2.1160551.html

-----

[claymore]

Vick gets only 1.6 mill this yr, year two is a team option, so for the Eagles purposes its a one yr contract unless Vick is amazing in which case they can pick up the 2nd yr...

I think Mars will end up after that on a prove it contract for a few mill, cant imagine he woudl get 5 mill/yr after doing nothing for two yrs. I think my pt should have been that this is a lose-lose situation. We have the power to make Marshall lose big time, and he has the power to hurt us as well.

Roddy White signed for 6 yrs 50 mill...thats what Marshall wants. He doesnt want a 3 mill/yr contract 2 yrs from now. Sure its a lot for us to think about, but for him...that is a huge drop.

So Mars doesnt hold the cards, but unfortunately neither do we. We can hurt each other, or not.
I trust you on Vicks numbers. Great post especially the last sentance. I think that is the best way to describe this situation.
So Mars doesnt hold the cards, but unfortunately neither do we. We can hurt each other, or not.

Its not something either side can be an ass about if either side is to be happy. I can agree with that.

That has been my main point. If we (Broncos) want to gain anything from this, we cant play the tough guy role and try and screw Marshall. He is dumb enough to call that Bluff.

[claymore]

So why would that be a reason for the Broncos to bow to Marshall's wishes and
give him what he wants by shipping him off for less than what they should get
for him or cutting him? That is ludicrous.

If he does not appear on the field this year, he isn't going to draw all that much
in RFA next year . . . at least, the Broncos aren't losing anything to find out.
But do demonstrate to that locker room full of players that all a player has to
do is to demand a trade, and he can get one, is asinine.

Not on my watch would that happen . . . :tsk:

-----

Further:




http://cbs4denver.com/sports/nfl.denver.broncos.2.1160551.html

-----

That is a new development altogether. I will believe it when I see it. Marshall conforming to the patriots west mentality can only help us.

[topscribe]

That is a new development altogether. I will believe it when I see it. Marshall conforming to the patriots west mentality can only help us.

Don't try to make up to me, Clay. You're sleeping on the couch tonight.

-----

[claymore]

Don't try to make up to me, Clay. You're sleeping on the couch tonight.

-----

I will make you smack your lips like JMCD during a press conference.

[topscribe]

I will make you smack your lips like JMCD during a press conference.

That is kind of annoying, isn't it?

-----

[claymore]

That is kind of annoying, isn't it?

-----

Its the least of my concerns at this point. :D

[Poet]

Not so much. Vick makes allot more than 2 million and he just got out of prison.

I think worst case for all involved marshall sits for 2 years. He leaves, we get zero trade in return, and....... He gets a 1-2 year deal worth at least 5 mil a year.

Unless we blow up the players union. In that case I hope he gets 50K a year.

Bottom line, he could shoot someone in the face, go to jail for 2 years, get out, and make more than he does here in Denver.

Marshall won't get that much money for sitting on the bench for two years.

[Tned]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13279299


Marshall is expected back today despite attempts in recent days by his agent, Kennard McGuire, to help facilitate a trade with the New York Jets.

Today, Marshall is expected to become part of a 53-man team.

[TXBRONC]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13279299

While some people think that we should trade Marshall I think it could prove to be terrible deal on two levels. First, if McDaniels ships him off to who knows where it weakens the receiving corp immensely. Second, it's set a bad precedent.

[T.K.O.]

has anyone heard if he is at practice today?
i just got to my puter after a morning of "rest" and eggs benedict in bed.
:salute:

[TXBRONC]

has anyone heard if he is at practice today?
i just got to my puter after a morning of "rest" and eggs benedict in bed.
:salute:

I haven't seen any reports just yet.

[pnbronco]

I haven't seen any reports just yet.

from twitter..

RT @VicLombardi Brandon Marshall did return to practice today. And this time he was catching footballs

[Lonestar]

it was twittered a few minutes ago he is in camp catching ball report from VIC Lombardi..

[T.K.O.]

you never know what to believe but i read where he had some people talking with him while suspended (maybe his momma.....maybe his agent)and they said he realized what he was doing to his team and his career and would come back ready to play !
lets hope this early word is a sign that that IS the case !:salute:

[TXBRONC]

you never know what to believe but i read where he had some people talking with him while suspended (maybe his momma.....maybe his agent)and they said he realized what he was doing to his team and his career and would come back ready to play !
lets hope this early word is a sign that that IS the case !:salute:

I heard the same thing about Marshall having a change of heart but I don't recall where I saw it.

[pnbronco]

I sure hope that this time it's the truth. I hope Rod can help him get his head where it needs to be in football. Everything else will take care of itself now that his trial is over if he just plays the game like he can and not get into any more fights with anyone.....

[Denver Native (Carol)]

you never know what to believe but i read where he had some people talking with him while suspended (maybe his momma.....maybe his agent)and they said he realized what he was doing to his team and his career and would come back ready to play !
lets hope this early word is a sign that that IS the case !:salute:

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/nfl.denver.broncos.2.1160551.html - Following from this link

Also, I'm told Marshall is starting to see the light. (I know, I know, we've heard this before). But this is different. Earlier this week, Marshall extended an olive branch to Rod Smith. He's seeking Rod's help again. He's actually listening this time. Rod and Brandon have been working out together this week, working on the body AND the mind. That's great news for B-Marsh. He needs guidance in his life. And nobody can fill that role better than Rod Smith.

[Watchthemiddle]

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/nfl.denver.broncos.2.1160551.html - Following from this link

Also, I'm told Marshall is starting to see the light. (I know, I know, we've heard this before). But this is different. Earlier this week, Marshall extended an olive branch to Rod Smith. He's seeking Rod's help again. He's actually listening this time. Rod and Brandon have been working out together this week, working on the body AND the mind. That's great news for B-Marsh. He needs guidance in his life. And nobody can fill that role better than Rod Smith.

I really hope he does. I think he can win back the fans, teamates, coaches, and whoever else if he would have a change of heart and just play. It's not going to happen overnight, but I really hope he can do it. It's a great added domention to our offense with him in there.

[Lonestar]

I sure hope that this time it's the truth. I hope Rod can help him get his head where it needs to be in football. Everything else will take care of itself now that his trial is over if he just plays the game like he can and not get into any more fights with anyone.....

rod was working with him before and then he got stupid..
BM promised to the commish nothing else would happen..
BM stated how many times to the papers he would get his head on straight..





fool me once shame on you,

fool me twice shame on me......

[Tned]

rod was working with him before and then he got stupid..
BM promised to the commish nothing else would happen..
BM stated how many times to the papers he would get his head on straight..





fool me once shame on you,

fool me twice shame on me......


Your objectivity on this subject shines so brightly :laugh:

[jhildebrand]

The Jets quietly signed Kevin O'Connell.

Call me crazy but I think something is in the works. I said it before and I will say it again, B Marshall wont be a Bronco on week 1!

[ikillz0mbies]

I'm sure O'Connell going to the Jets is rather mere coincidence. Then again, he would be their 4th QB. Perhaps something is in the works, but it wouldn't make sense for the Broncos to do it, unless it is for David Harris, O'Connell and a 3rd/2nd.

[pnbronco]

rod was working with him before and then he got stupid..
BM promised to the commish nothing else would happen..
BM stated how many times to the papers he would get his head on straight..





fool me once shame on you,

fool me twice shame on me......

Hey J I totally understand why you feel this way. Look my orange colored do not blind me to all the stuff he has done and that he has said this all before.
The difference is that the locker room is upset with him and has stated so in public and I'm sure behind closed doors. I'm would assume that some of these guys are his friends.

Also he reached out to Rod this time. The last time Rod took him under his wing.

My husband and I would talk till we were blue in the face about certain things with our kids, then one of their friends would say the same thing and they would finally get it. So it's my "hope" that he does.

[FanInAZ]

Not so much. Vick makes allot more than 2 million and he just got out of prison.

I think worst case for all involved marshall sits for 2 years. He leaves, we get zero trade in return, and....... He gets a 1-2 year deal worth at least 5 mil a year.

Unless we blow up the players union. In that case I hope he gets 50K a year.

Bottom line, he could shoot someone in the face, go to jail for 2 years, get out, and make more than he does here in Denver.

How much was Vick making before he went to prison and exactly how much is he making now?

[Shazam!]

**** Vick. I want him nowhere near the Denver Broncos.

Anyway...

The 'Jets to get Cutler' and 'Jets MUST get Cutler' was all over the NY papers and sports radio back then to. He was even on the cover. The local sports media were obsessed.

So when it's talked about here I hold very little merit to it.

[Lonestar]

Your objectivity on this subject shines so brightly :laugh:



not much to be optimistic/objective about..

BM is what BM is a moron that can't keep it on the field.. it is a matter of time before he FUBARs again..

That or he saw the light and was hit by lighting.. and it cleared out the ME factor..

I hope he plays lights out this year and we get a #1 and #3 as a tender for the guy... Anyone that has had that many chances and still does not get it does IMHO not deserve to be on my team..

I'll thank him for his play and wish him well in the future with his millions and then pray for him because he will FUBAR again.. when he has the money.. the only thing keeping him on the straight and narrow is the possibility of a huge pay day..

Once he has gauaranteed money well time will tell..

[Tempus Fugit]

not much to be optimistic/objective about..

BM is what BM is a moron that can't keep it on the field.. it is a matter of time before he FUBARs again..

That or he saw the light and was hit by lighting.. and it cleared out the ME factor..

I hope he plays lights out this year and we get a #1 and #3 as a tender for the guy... Anyone that has had that many chances and still does not get it does IMHO not deserve to be on my team..

I'll thank him for his play and wish him well in the future with his millions and then pray for him because he will FUBAR again.. when he has the money.. the only thing keeping him on the straight and narrow is the possibility of a huge pay day..

Once he has gauaranteed money well time will tell..

Here, this will add some intrigue (I verify only the existence of the item, not the truth behind it):


Enter Jets safety Kerry Rhodes, who has tantalized Jets fans by tweeting Sunday night that they should expect "a big announcement."

Just before that, Rhodes tweeted at a Jets fan speculating on a possible trade for Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall "u may be right!!! (hint hint)."

After creating a mini-firestorm with his comments among Jets fans, Rhodes added this message: "Sorry 4 the hold up fans but this stuff sometime takes time but just stay tuned u will find out soon. Not trying to hold u guys in limbo!"

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/07/kerry-rhodes-hints-at-a-big-announcement/

I refuse to vouch for it's validity at any level, especially since it's on PFT, but since this is the B.M. & Jets thread, I thought it belonged here.

[FanInAZ]

**** Vick. I want him nowhere near the Denver Broncos.

Anyway...

The 'Jets to get Cutler' and 'Jets MUST get Cutler' was all over the NY papers and sports radio back then to. He was even on the cover. The local sports media were obsessed.

So when it's talked about here I hold very little merit to it.

Claymore is trying to say that Vick was still paid a big contract even after he missed 2 seasons with he was in prision. Therefore, Marshall would still get paid the money he wants even if we di make he sit 2 seasons.

The point I was hoping to make is that Vick was probably making 2 to 3 times as much before he went to prision then he is now. If we make Marshall sit 2 season and he comes back to make 1/2 to 1/3 his would be market value, then how much would he actually make?

[Lonestar]

Hey J I totally understand why you feel this way. Look my orange colored do not blind me to all the stuff he has done and that he has said this all before.
The difference is that the locker room is upset with him and has stated so in public and I'm sure behind closed doors. I'm would assume that some of these guys are his friends.

Also he reached out to Rod this time. The last time Rod took him under his wing.

My husband and I would talk till we were blue in the face about certain things with our kids, then one of their friends would say the same thing and they would finally get it. So it's my "hope" that he does.

let hope your right but I do not trust him anymore to do the right thing.. there is something wrong between the ears on this guy.. It is going to take more than ROD AGAIN to help him.. 13 police reports mean something.. acting like a 8 year old on the field of play means something..

saying the same thing "I Get It and it will not happen again" means something that he seems to be incapable of understanding..


Sorry there is no way I would give him a contract IF I were Pat.. at least not with out hold backs and major incentives in the contract.. and as Tend says his agent would never allow it..

Therefore next year or before he will be a something else not a Bronco..

[WARHORSE]

I'm sure O'Connell going to the Jets is rather mere coincidence. Then again, he would be their 4th QB. Perhaps something is in the works, but it wouldn't make sense for the Broncos to do it, unless it is for David Harris, O'Connell and a 3rd/2nd.


I think Harris, O'Connell and a 2nd/3rd would be a good trade.

But the thing is, Marshall has no leverage and the Broncos do. The Broncos can force him to play.

If he acts up, doesnt play well, or is insubordinate, its all to his demise.
So only an idiot would continue on with the same behavior.

And if hes stubborn enough to try and prove he is in fact that much of an idiot, then he does so while totally devastating his value in the league.

McDaniels needs to win. Why trade a guy thats going to help you win, when you own his rights next year?

Wont the Jets still be looking to trade for him? Of course they will.
And they will ESPECIALLY be willing to do it if he knocks it out this year.

The Broncos hold onto Brandon with the one exception that a team blows them away with an offer.

Cause they can still get a first and third for him in the offseason.

[Lonestar]

still no way that the Jets get rid of their defensive signal caller 3-5 days before the season starts..

Much ado about nothing..

[JDL]

Kerry Rhodes on Twitter is tweeting that big announcement coming.

Said nothing more, but

1) We kept 7 WRs? Huh ... who goes... Marshall makes sense.

2) Jets traded and have been trying to acquire O'Connell (why? they don't REALLY need him and then trading for him, huh? he is a BACKUP ... you don't worry about backups like that and trying to trade for one... honestly... and he was hand-selected by McDaniels in all probability)

3) While it may be procedural, we somehow utilized the exemption provided for Marshall, even though we really didn't have to if we were sure Marshall was staying.

There are all these reports of our supposed interest in Harris - that simply does NOT come up unless it came from us... very random (although it doesn't make much sense as we have 9LBs right now), unless Moss is going to NY for depth reasons. But, there is a lot of smoke and it is getting increasingly likely there is fire. It would be very similar to the way the Pats did things in the past with disgruntled players.

Here's another possibility... what if Orton goes on IR? Is that a possibility? Theoretically his injury could have been that severe and we are just holding our cards as close to the vest as possible (but IF that really happened... why not sign Jeff Garcia? Total stop gap at 39, but do we want two project QBs? - so maybe not a good idea.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is A LOT of smoke... but the pieces don't seem to add up as somehow we are missing some piece of critical information. If Marshall conveyed the seriousness of Orton's injury, perhaps they made a move for a QB that they could include to entice Denver? If a QB is part of this deal, then somebody is going on IR because I don't know that it makes sense to cut either of the two so-called veterans and surely not the rookie who did well enough to make it probable somebody else would pick him up on waivers.

I just fully expect something odd to happen tomorrow... or maybe I am listening to the voices again... sigh. :tsk:

[JetsFanNYC]

You're not getting David Harris.

[Italianmobstr7]

You're not getting David Harris.

You're not getting Brandon Marshall.

[claymore]

How much was Vick making before he went to prison and exactly how much is he making now?
Vick made more in endorsemants than his league salary. But he made a ass ton.

He signed a caontract with the Eagles for 2 years, worth no more than 9.8 million. 2nd year being the balloon year of course.

Claymore is trying to say that Vick was still paid a big contract even after he missed 2 seasons with he was in prision. Therefore, Marshall would still get paid the money he wants even if we di make he sit 2 seasons.

The point I was hoping to make is that Vick was probably making 2 to 3 times as much before he went to prision then he is now. If we make Marshall sit 2 season and he comes back to make 1/2 to 1/3 his would be market value, then how much would he actually make?
I would say 5 million a year. If we are basing this off of numbers similar to the last 2 years.

Unless we amputate Marshall's legs, he will make far more money playing for any of the other 31 teams.

[claymore]

If we trade Marshall for Kevin O'Connell, and a douche bag. I will go over the deep end. We better get Harris, and O'Connell, or a first and O'Connell.

[Ravage!!!]

If we trade Marshall for Kevin O'Connell, and a douche bag. I will go over the deep end. We better get Harris, and O'Connell, or a first and O'Connell.

Why? The Broncos are very successful at finding franchise WRs.

and no worries! We have someone from the patriots (who have proved to draft fanchise WRs and QBs)

Look at Wes Welker and Randy Moss!!!! Oh..... wait. Well there is, uhm...... well there is........ Chad Jackson and Jabbar Gaffney. Oh wait......

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Why would we trade BM for O'Connell? I don't care how much of a dick Beiilicick is, we coulda gotten O'Connell straight from NE.

[Tned]

3) While it may be procedural, we somehow utilized the exemption provided for Marshall, even though we really didn't have to if we were sure Marshall was staying.


While everything you posted is possible, it is far more likely that:

A. The Broncos asked for and got the one day roster exemption, because they could. Anything could happen, they could have a player get hurt in Sunday's practice, they could get a trade offer for one of their bubble players, and maybe get a 6th or 7th round pick for someone they were about to cut. Someone could get hurt in Sunday's practice. Anything can happen in that day, so the mere fact they 'can' get the roster exemption is a reason to request it.

B. They needed to see if Marshall was going to show up, and look like he is committed to getting back to being the teams #1 receiver. If he came back and refused to practice, or punted another ball, he would likely be re-suspended, and you don't want to be in the position of having released someone like Lloyd and then suspending Marshall.

[Lonestar]

I still vote for during their "consultations" with the league About suspending him in the first place Roger told them to ask for it and it would be a slam dunk because he knows Brandon really well. :laugh:

[JetsFanNYC]

You're not getting Brandon Marshall.

I'm fine with that.

[topscribe]

Why? The Broncos are very successful at finding franchise WRs.

and no worries! We have someone from the patriots (who have proved to draft fanchise WRs and QBs)

Look at Wes Welker and Randy Moss!!!! Oh..... wait. Well there is, uhm...... well there is........ Chad Jackson and Jabbar Gaffney. Oh wait......

Actually, Gaffney is very highly thought of by the likes of Royal, Stokley, and
McDaniels, from what I have heard and read. They view Gaffney as a quality
receiver, whether or not others do.

Nonetheless, I have to agree with Clay (and you, apparently, from your sarcasm)
in that the Broncos had better get a very significant return if they trade
Marshall. I believe Marshall is so good that he could make the difference in up
to four games this year in the W-L columns.

-----

[claymore]

You're not getting David Harris.


Actually, Gaffney is very highly thought of by the likes of Royal, Stokley, and
McDaniels, from what I have heard and read. They view Gaffney as a quality
receiver, whether or not others do.

Nonetheless, I have to agree with Clay (and you, apparently, from your sarcasm)
in that the Broncos had better get a very significant return if they trade
Marshall. I believe Marshall is so good that he could make the difference in up
to four games this year in the W-L columns.

-----

Marshall has to be planned for by the opposing Defensive coordinator. No one else on our offense has to be planned for/game planned around.

[topscribe]

Marshall has to be planned for by the opposing Defensive coordinator. No one else on our offense has to be planned for/game planned around.

Well, if the offensive planning is done correctly, I wouldn't think that would have
to be true. Fast Eddie is no slouch by anyone's standards, and Scheffler is a
total mismatch for defenses. In addition, Moreno may soon establish himself as
such a central offensive figure (keep our fingers crossed).

The Broncos have the makings of a powerful offense without Marshall. With him,
however, they become a defensive nightmare.

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Actually, Gaffney is very highly thought of by the likes of Royal, Stokley, and
McDaniels, from what I have heard and read. They view Gaffney as a quality
receiver, whether or not others do.

Top... we've heard reports from all over the league on receivers teams/coaches are "high on"... but that doesn't translate to the field. This happens every year with every franchise. Fans and media get all excited because a coach talked up a WR during TCs. Until Gaffney actually shows it on the field, during real games.... I'm taking that "highly thought of" as nothing more than more than coaches talking high on their players. What else are they supposed to say? "Yeah, we know we don't want to deal with Marshall and give him a new contract, but our other WRs are very pedestrian and would have a hard time making most rosters. " Not exactly making their points.

This of course.. .coming from one sarcastic poster to another

[topscribe]

Top... we've heard reports from all over the league on receivers teams/coaches are "high on"... but that doesn't translate to the field. This happens every year with every franchise. Fans and media get all excited because a coach talked up a WR during TCs. Until Gaffney actually shows it on the field, during real games.... I'm taking that "highly thought of" as nothing more than more than coaches talking high on their players. What else are they supposed to say? "Yeah, we know we don't want to deal with Marshall and give him a new contract, but our other WRs are very pedestrian and would have a hard time making most rosters. " Not exactly making their points.

This of course.. .coming from one sarcastic poster to another

It might be good, then, for you to watch some games. I think highly of Gaffney
from what I have seen of him on the field. And the players and coach I mentioned
think highly of him from what they have seen of him on the field and every day
in practice. If you listen to the interviews, they have volunteered his name in
their comments, not just responded about him to reporters' questions. Gaffney
indeed is very well thought of in the locker room and on the field. McDaniels
didn't start Gaffney (in Marshall's absence) because he thought Gaffney was
garbage . . .

BTW, I did not refer to your sarcasm in a derogatory way. I only mentioned it in
to indicate what I inferred was your message.

-----

[claymore]

Well, if the offensive planning is done correctly, I wouldn't think that would have
to be true. Fast Eddie is no slouch by anyone's standards, and Scheffler is a
total mismatch for defenses. In addition, Moreno may soon establish himself as
such a central offensive figure (keep our fingers crossed).

The Broncos have the makings of a powerful offense without Marshall. With him,
however, they become a defensive nightmare.

-----

Yes, but we are missing the most important aspect of a potent Offense. We are without a QB.

[topscribe]

Yes, but we are missing the most important aspect of a potent Offense. We are without a QB.

That is how you feel. That is not what I believe.

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Yes, but we are missing the most important aspect of a potent Offense. We are without a QB.

well.. technically we HAVE one..............

[claymore]

That is how you feel. That is not what I believe.

-----

Make me feel better. Tell me how Orton is the answer. :baghead:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Make me feel better. Tell me how Orton is the answer. :baghead:

When the regular season starts - Orton will tell us if he is the answer or not

[claymore]

When the regular season starts - Orton will tell us if he is the answer or not

I have no reply other than I love you.

[Medford Bronco]

Make me feel better. Tell me how Orton is the answer. :baghead:

Personally I would rather have Simms play if healthy over Orton.

[claymore]

Personally I would rather have Simms play if healthy over Orton.

Its worse for me. Ive disliked Simms for years. :( Some people are scared of the dark, I am scared of spleenless albinos. Although they are rare, they are scary nonetheless.

[MOtorboat]

Its worse for me. Ive disliked Simms for years. :( Some people are scared of the dark, I am scared of spleenless albinos. Although they are rare, they are scary nonetheless.

:tsk:

[Tned]

Actually, Gaffney is very highly thought of by the likes of Royal, Stokley, and
McDaniels, from what I have heard and read. They view Gaffney as a quality
receiver, whether or not others do.

Nonetheless, I have to agree with Clay (and you, apparently, from your sarcasm)
in that the Broncos had better get a very significant return if they trade
Marshall. I believe Marshall is so good that he could make the difference in up
to four games this year in the W-L columns.

-----

While I think Gaffney is still in the project phase, some of the reports right after McDaniels signed him was that it created hard feelings between Belicheck and McDaniels. If that is true, NE must have had high hopes for him.

[Lonestar]

Yes, but we are missing the most important aspect of a potent Offense. We are without a QB..

my God did they trade Orton and Simms..:confused:

[claymore]

.

my God did they trade Orton and Simms..:confused:

God I hope so, where'd you read that?

[Tned]

Kerry Rhodes on Twitter is tweeting that big announcement coming.


Looks like Rhodes was talking about something else:


@kerryrhodes: For those who think i was talking bout B Marshall, Guess again!!!

[Ravage!!!]

god i hope so, where'd you read that?

lol!!!!!!!!!!!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=3653&line=150396&spln=1

Fantasy Football Breaking News

Brandon Marshall: Rhodes' announcement not Marshall related
Brandon Marshall - WR - DEN - Sep. 7 - 1:32 pm et

Jets S Kerry Rhodes admitted Monday that his promised "big announcement" on Twitter doesn't involve a Brandon Marshall trade.
Rhodes is now saying the news will come out on Tuesday and "if you really are a JET fan you will appreciate the news!" Sounds like we should be bracing for a letdown of NFL Networks Jamie Dukes' "bombshell" proportions. Sep. 7 - 1:32 pm et

AND

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/07/kerry-rhodes-keeps-dropping-hints-of-a-brandon-marshall-trade/

Kerry Rhodes keeps dropping hints of a Brandon Marshall trade
Posted by Mike Florio on September 7, 2009 12:10 PM ET

After more than 12 hours of silence on his Twitter page, which had folks buzzing over hints that receiver Brandon Marshall could be heading from Denver to New York, Jets safety Kerry Rhodes says that he wasn't referring to the potential trade for Marshall when promising a "big announcement" on Sunday night.

We think.

Rhodes posted, and then deleted, a tweet indicating that a trade for Marshall wasn't the big news to which he was referring. But the deleted tweet added that the trade for Marshall "may happen."

(Though he also posted, as some of you have pointed out in the comments, that the big news isn't that a Marshall trade, the point here -- for those of you who were unable to comprehend the prior paragraph and who likely won't comprehend this parenthetical, either -- is that Rhodes tweeted that Marshall wasn't the big news to which Rhodes was referring, that the Marshall trade "may happen," and that Rhodes thereafter deleted the tweet.)

Rhodes now says on his Twitter page: "everyone the news will b mad 2morrow and if you really are a JET fan you will appreciate the news!"

He then reiterated the news is coming Tuesday: "it will b told tommorow seriously i wont lie to my fans and fans of the jets."

Already, it sounds like we're all in for a letdown on this one.

Unless Rhodes deleted the other tweet because a trade for Marshall still might happen.

[Nomad]

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=3653&line=150396&spln=1

Fantasy Football Breaking News

Brandon Marshall: Rhodes' announcement not Marshall related
Brandon Marshall - WR - DEN - Sep. 7 - 1:32 pm et

Jets S Kerry Rhodes admitted Monday that his promised "big announcement" on Twitter doesn't involve a Brandon Marshall trade.
Rhodes is now saying the news will come out on Tuesday and "if you really are a JET fan you will appreciate the news!" Sounds like we should be bracing for a letdown of NFL Networks Jamie Dukes' "bombshell" proportions. Sep. 7 - 1:32 pm et

AND

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/07/kerry-rhodes-keeps-dropping-hints-of-a-brandon-marshall-trade/

Kerry Rhodes keeps dropping hints of a Brandon Marshall trade
Posted by Mike Florio on September 7, 2009 12:10 PM ET

After more than 12 hours of silence on his Twitter page, which had folks buzzing over hints that receiver Brandon Marshall could be heading from Denver to New York, Jets safety Kerry Rhodes says that he wasn't referring to the potential trade for Marshall when promising a "big announcement" on Sunday night.

We think.

Rhodes posted, and then deleted, a tweet indicating that a trade for Marshall wasn't the big news to which he was referring. But the deleted tweet added that the trade for Marshall "may happen."

(Though he also posted, as some of you have pointed out in the comments, that the big news isn't that a Marshall trade, the point here -- for those of you who were unable to comprehend the prior paragraph and who likely won't comprehend this parenthetical, either -- is that Rhodes tweeted that Marshall wasn't the big news to which Rhodes was referring, that the Marshall trade "may happen," and that Rhodes thereafter deleted the tweet.)

Rhodes now says on his Twitter page: "everyone the news will b mad 2morrow and if you really are a JET fan you will appreciate the news!"

He then reiterated the news is coming Tuesday: "it will b told tommorow seriously i wont lie to my fans and fans of the jets."

Already, it sounds like we're all in for a letdown on this one.

Unless Rhodes deleted the other tweet because a trade for Marshall still might happen.

Playing with the minds of fans!:lol:

[Ravage!!!]

sometimes writers take the "tease" too far... lol... timing is everything

[topscribe]

While I think Gaffney is still in the project phase, some of the reports right after McDaniels signed him was that it created hard feelings between Belicheck and McDaniels. If that is true, NE must have had high hopes for him.

What the hell did Belichick expect? McDaniels is supposed to beat every team except his?

But, except for the dropped pass in the end zone, Gaffney put on a show against Chicago . . .

-----

[topscribe]

Its worse for me. Ive disliked Simms for years. :( Some people are scared of the dark, I am scared of spleenless albinos. Although they are rare, they are scary nonetheless.

I remember now: you were going to kiss one in public when someone else snuck
up behind you and pulled down your pants just about the time you were going to
do it.

I don't blame you . . .

-----

[Tned]

What the hell did Belichick expect? McDaniels is supposed to beat every team except his?

But, except for the dropped pass in the end zone, Gaffney put on a show against Chicago . . .

-----

Also, whether it was because he knew the offense better than other receivers, or simply played better, he seemed to nearly always get good reviews in the camp reports that fans posted.

I thought the whole "Belicheck is upset that McDaniels poached Gaffney" thing was crazy, but that was what was posted on Rotoworld and others. The only thing I can think of is that because Gaffney hadn't done much, NE thought nobody would go after him, and therefore they could resign him at a bargain, and then McDaniels went and signed him.

Here are some of the blurbs about Gaffney right before and after he was signed. First, a couple comments about him not being very good and the Broncos overpaying for him, and then about NE being upset. If all three reports are accurate, that indicates to me that NE (including McDaniels) saw much more in Gaffney than most people around the league.


Jabar Gaffney-WR- Broncos Feb. 27 - 9:15 am et

The Broncos are hosting Jabar Gaffney for a free agent visit on Friday.

Denver is serious about adding a wideout, but they aren't aiming high. Still only 28, Gaffney plays like he's in his mid-30s. He does know Josh McDaniels' system. The Broncos' other potential target to play with Eddie Royal and Brandon Marshall is Michael Clayton.
Source: NFL.com

Jabar Gaffney-WR- Broncos Feb. 27 - 5:36 pm et

Broncos signed WR Jabar Gaffney to a four-year, $10 million contract with $3 million guaranteed.

Gaffney is little more than a No. 4 receiver, but he is familiar with Josh McDaniels' system that often goes four wide. Gaffney figures to work the out routes while Eddie Royal and Brandon Stokley fill the Wes Welker slot role and Brandon Marshall mirrors Randy Moss. Still, no one else would've paid this much and Gaffney doesn't offer enough big-play ability to be a real fantasy factor.
Source: NFL.com

Jabar Gaffney-WR- Broncos Mar. 26 - 8:56 am et

"Multiple league sources" tell the Chicago Sun Times that the Patriots grew very unhappy when Josh McDaniels lured free agent Jabar Gaffney to Denver.

The Sun Times appears to suggest that Gaffney is the reason Matt Cassel isn't a Bronco. Gaffney isn't a difference maker and the Pats have already upgraded with Joey Galloway and Greg Lewis, so we're sure they'll be fine.
Source: Chicago Sun Times

http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1716

[JetsFanNYC]

I must say, not that I thought they ever would, but I'm pretty pleased we didn't trade David "The Hammer" Harris, the guy is a beast.

[claymore]

I must say, not that I thought they ever would, but I'm pretty pleased we didn't trade David "The Hammer" Harris, the guy is a beast.

After a year with Orton as his QB, you can probably get Marshall for a 6th rd pick.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Yeah, cuz it's not liek Orton put the ball right in his hands or anything, only to have BM drop it. Oh, wait...

[Poet]

After a year with Orton as his QB, you can probably get Marshall for a 6th rd pick.

Stop being such a girl. Do I have to send you a link of my post to you from the lounge? Orton is a solid QB, he's not Jay Cutler in the sense he isn't going to win as many games for you but he won't lose as many games for you either.

Now shutup and go enjoy the win and try to actually not be a miserable wretch.

TIA.

[Northman]

I think NY will be just fine. Fact is they dont need Brandon. Same with the Giants. Brandon is not a hot commodity as many people think, especially with the risk involved.

[claymore]

Stop being such a girl. Do I have to send you a link of my post to you from the lounge? Orton is a solid QB, he's not Jay Cutler in the sense he isn't going to win as many games for you but he won't lose as many games for you either.

Now shutup and go enjoy the win and try to actually not be a miserable wretch.

TIA.

I enjoy earned wins.

[Poet]

I enjoy earned wins.

:clickforeverandaday:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I enjoy earned wins.

When someone else has our #1 pick, I enjoy ANY wins.

Hell...I enjoy any wins regardless.

[broncohead]

Yeah, cuz it's not liek Orton put the ball right in his hands or anything, only to have BM drop it. Oh, wait...

Everyone is jumping on Marshall because of that dropped pass. What about Jabar when he did dropped the same pass in the endzone? Everyone was defending him.

[Crush05]

What do you all expect? Marshall was suspended for the final two weeks of preseason and really has not had the time needed with the team to gel. Sit back and relax he will get there in the next week or so! I am just glad we did not lose him also after losing Cutler IMO.

[TXBRONC]

What do you all expect? Marshall was suspended for the final two weeks of preseason and really has not had the time needed with the team to gel. Sit back and relax he will get there in the next week or so! I am just glad we did not lise him also after losing Cutler IMO.

I think the feeling that Marshall was sandbagging is misplaced. The one pass that went through his hands can be in at least two ways. It could have easily been a lack of concentration and could have been that he lost track of the ball in the sun. Besides that he wasn't the only one that dropped passes in that game.

[T.K.O.]

I enjoy earned wins.

do you have any idea how many games have been decided by "tipped " passes?
should stokely have just stopped and said"this would'nt be fair ,i'll just get tackled"?
why do they work on tip drills?
c'mon you know its part of the game how did we not earn the win?
we scored more points than the other team ,therefore we earned the win.
if we had lost and the bungals won because we got 2 ten yd penalties and a sack that put us out of fg range ....would they have "earned the win?"
did we cheat.....NO
did we win...yes !:salute:

[silkamilkamonico]

Everyone is jumping on Marshall because of that dropped pass. What about Jabar when he did dropped the same pass in the endzone? Everyone was defending him.

Jabar didn't go through training camp and preseason crying about more money and then throwing tantrums on the field.

[outdoor_miner]

do you have any idea how many games have been decided by "tipped " passes?
should stokely have just stopped and said"this would'nt be fair ,i'll just get tackled"?
why do they work on tip drills?
c'mon you know its part of the game how did we not earn the win?
we scored more points than the other team ,therefore we earned the win.
if we had lost and the bungals won because we got 2 ten yd penalties and a sack that put us out of fg range ....would they have "earned the win?"
did we cheat.....NO
did we win...yes !:salute:

This is so true. Games are often decided by a single fortunate play one way or the other. It is the nature of football, and it happens all the time. What is rare, however, is when that fortunate play happens at the very end of the game. That is why people will ascribe the victory to "luck". However, how many times have we seen "luck" completely change the momentum of a game in one team's favor in the 3rd or 4th quarter? Passes are tipped, catchable balls are dropped, fumbled balls bounce one way or the other.... These plays can have the exact same affect, but nobody complains because they happened in the middle of the game. In reality, it doesn't matter when it happens, luck is a part of the game.

[claymore]

do you have any idea how many games have been decided by "tipped " passes?
should stokely have just stopped and said"this would'nt be fair ,i'll just get tackled"?
why do they work on tip drills?
c'mon you know its part of the game how did we not earn the win?
we scored more points than the other team ,therefore we earned the win.
if we had lost and the bungals won because we got 2 ten yd penalties and a sack that put us out of fg range ....would they have "earned the win?"
did we cheat.....NO
did we win...yes !:salute:Did we win? Yes we did Am I excited about it? No Im not.

The football gods gave us the win.

I doubt we are going to be very good this year. Its hard to get excited about this offense. Hopefully things start turning around.

I like y'alls excitement, and ability to remain positive.

When I see us (Broncos) legitimatley beat a team with a game plan I will be excited.

JMCD did good by catching the missing time on the clock. I applaud him for it.

But our offense is terrible. Absolutely pathetic. And our D... I just cant put much stock into them until they play a few more teams.

[topscribe]

Everyone is jumping on Marshall because of that dropped pass. What about Jabar when he did dropped the same pass in the endzone? Everyone was defending him.

Agreed. And Marshall is just one of several receivers who dropped passes on
that day, including Hillis, whose drops are so rare they are historical events.

We have to remember that Marshall had no camp or preseason games.


Just a side note: Gaffney's drop in the end zone made tremendous difference
in Orton's QB rating in the Seattle game, which was 85.7, and would have
been 118.1. And it likely would have meant a Broncos victory. (I'm not
presenting an argument. Just a point of interest to show how much
difference one play can make in a total game.)

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Agreed. And Marshall is just one of several receivers who dropped passes on
that day, including Hillis, whose drops are so rare they are historical events.

We have to remember that Marshall had no camp or preseason games.


Just a side note: Gaffney's drop in the end zone made tremendous difference
in Orton's QB rating in the Seattle game, which was 85.7, and would have
been 118.1. And it likely would have meant a Broncos victory. (I'm not
presenting an argument. Just a point of interest to show how much
difference one play can make in a total game.)

-----

and QB rating. Which is why I honestly, never use QB rating as any kind of proof on play. For some reason, that math equation has turned into the 'mark' as to what determines good play, and most of the time it tells a completely different story. Too many variables in the actual game to use some math equation to determine a good/bad/average game.

But... a good example.

[CoachChaz]

and QB rating. Which is why I honestly, never use QB rating as any kind of proof on play. For some reason, that math equation has turned into the 'mark' as to what determines good play, and most of the time it tells a completely different story. Too many variables in the actual game to use some math equation to determine a good/bad/average game.

But... a good example.

I agree. QB rating is, oddly enough, overRATED. If Gaffney catches that pass, it's one more completion and a TD pass and boom...a 40 point increase in the rating. Doesnt make sense.

He'd have enjoyed the same boost if he threw a 2 yard shuffle-pass that a running back took 90 yards through traffic.

[Dreadnought]

and QB rating. Which is why I honestly, never use QB rating as any kind of proof on play. For some reason, that math equation has turned into the 'mark' as to what determines good play, and most of the time it tells a completely different story. Too many variables in the actual game to use some math equation to determine a good/bad/average game.

But... a good example.

Agreed to a point, in that in one game it won't always tell a complete story. Too small a sample size. Over a Season or career though its a good one IMO

[topscribe]

I agree. QB rating is, oddly enough, overRATED. If Gaffney catches that pass, it's one more completion and a TD pass and boom...a 40 point increase in the rating. Doesnt make sense.

He'd have enjoyed the same boost if he threw a 2 yard shuffle-pass that a running back took 90 yards through traffic.

While I agree with what you say about the QB rating, it was actually two
plays that caused the 40-point difference: the missed TD and the successful
INT. Also, your example of the 2-yard shuffle pass makes sense on the
surface, but it also can be indicative of the decision-making of the QB. So I
don't give the stat much merit as the indicator of a QB's play, but I still
consider it one of the factors in it . . .

-----

[Ravage!!!]

I agree. QB rating is, oddly enough, overRATED. If Gaffney catches that pass, it's one more completion and a TD pass and boom...a 40 point increase in the rating. Doesnt make sense.

He'd have enjoyed the same boost if he threw a 2 yard shuffle-pass that a running back took 90 yards through traffic.

precisely.. and since shuffle passes are generally called plays, can't say it had anything to do with how the defense was read, how he saw the open receiver and such. The QB basically handed off the ball.

As much as its going to sound like a knock on Orton, we can use the 87 yrd TD pass as another example. Bad pass, no chance of completing, yet adds how many points (I never did calculate out without that pass included) to his rating?? Don't know. But the point is that, as you said, doesn't exactly tell the story.

But then, that can be said anytime you purely look at the stats and not actually watching the play on the field.

[Ravage!!!]

Agreed to a point, in that in one game it won't always tell a complete story. Too small a sample size. Over a Season or career though its a good one IMO

Maybe. I've never seen comparisons... but would QBs that have longer careers have a benefit or a disadvantage with this formula?

I mean, would a guy like Trent Dilfer, who was never a great talent, but was very safe with the ball..... have a better advantage in the QB rating?

[topscribe]

Maybe. I've never seen comparisons... but would QBs that have longer careers have a benefit or a disadvantage with this formula?

I mean, would a guy like Trent Dilfer, who was never a great talent, but was very safe with the ball..... have a better advantage in the QB rating?

The QB rating basically takes four factors into consideration:

*Total yards
*Touchdowns
*Interceptions
*Completion ratio

From that perspective, yes, the QBs who are safer with the ball may have
an advantage. Actually, that is a reason it may have some merit. Even as
last Sunday showed, not throwing INTs helps to win games, and throwing
them helps to lose them . . . a major factor in the QB rating . . .

-----

[T.K.O.]

Did we win? Yes we did Am I excited about it? No Im not.

The football gods gave us the win.

I doubt we are going to be very good this year. Its hard to get excited about this offense. Hopefully things start turning around.

I like y'alls excitement, and ability to remain positive.

When I see us (Broncos) legitimatley beat a team with a game plan I will be excited.

JMCD did good by catching the missing time on the clock. I applaud him for it.

But our offense is terrible. Absolutely pathetic. And our D... I just cant put much stock into them until they play a few more teams.

our d looked better than it has in years....if that's not exciting to you ,you better have your ticker checked.
if cutler had thrown a miracle pass on his last play instead of a pick ....would the bears have "earned" their win?
if orton had thrown 4 int's and we lost would you be pointing out that he had some great throws in between picks?
just wonderin.....

[Ravage!!!]

our d looked better than it has in years....if that's not exciting to you ,you better have your ticker checked.
if cutler had thrown a miracle pass on his last play instead of a pick ....would the bears have "earned" their win?
if orton had thrown 4 int's and we lost would you be pointing out that he had some great throws in between picks?
just wonderin.....

Wait... is he THROWING to his receiver that he INTENDED to throw to when he completes the pass???

If Orton would have led a drive.. or EVEN... made a play and hit Marshall on a streak and scored the TD, then Clay would be saying we 'earned' the win. Thats completely Different than saying it was a "TD pass" as THREE guys basically knocked down the Short pass into the hands of someone that wasn't even intended to be involved in the play!

Thats a HUGE difference, and thats all Clay is saying. Just because the play was legal doesn't mean it wasn't luck.. and its the LUCK we had to rely on to win this game. It was LUCK that got us the win in SD last year, and there were PLENTY of us that pointed that out! Same thing.

[Ravage!!!]

The QB rating basically takes four factors into consideration:

*Total yards
*Touchdowns
*Interceptions
*Completion ratio

From that perspective, yes, the QBs who are safer with the ball may have
an advantage. Actually, that is a reason it may have some merit. Even as
last Sunday showed, not throwing INTs helps to win games, and throwing
them helps to lose them . . . a major factor in the QB rating . . .

-----

So QBs like Brian Griese and Trent Dilfer are better for teams than guys like Elway and Favre. I'm pretty sure their QB ratings aren't very high, career wise.

[topscribe]

So QBs like Brian Griese and Trent Dilfer are better for teams than guys like Elway and Favre. I'm pretty sure their QB ratings aren't very high, career wise.

Twisting my words and putting words into my mouth.

See, THAT is why I place more value in comments from the likes of Kaylore . . .

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Twisting my words and putting words into my mouth.

See, THAT is why I place more value in comments from the likes of Kaylore . . .

-----

I already stated above that I've never looked at career QB ratings... so I'm asking you.

Please... I don't give a rats-ass who's opinion you like better, top. But if you can't continue a conversation without getting your panties in a wad, then why not just answer the question???

I can name 30 posters who's comments I value over yours, but I'm going by what you said. Or did you just say that purely to take another shot at Cutler and pump up Orton's game this week? I don't know. I already stated I've never compared the QB ratings on careers. I just don't put much value into those, either.

[roomemp]

Wait... is he THROWING to his receiver that he INTENDED to throw to when he completes the pass???

If Orton would have led a drive.. or EVEN... made a play and hit Marshall on a streak and scored the TD, then Clay would be saying we 'earned' the win. Thats completely Different than saying it was a "TD pass" as THREE guys basically knocked down the Short pass into the hands of someone that wasn't even intended to be involved in the play!

Thats a HUGE difference, and thats all Clay is saying. Just because the play was legal doesn't mean it wasn't luck.. and its the LUCK we had to rely on to win this game. It was LUCK that got us the win in SD last year, and there were PLENTY of us that pointed that out! Same thing.


Blah blah blah blah blah.........We won the game.......Orton had a better game than Cutler Our D looked awesome against a good offense......What is there to dispute?:salute:

[dogfish]

While I agree with what you say about the QB rating, it was actually two
plays that caused the 40-point difference: the missed TD and the successful
INT. Also, your example of the 2-yard shuffle pass makes sense on the
surface, but it also can be indicative of the decision-making of the QB. So I
don't give the stat much merit as the indicator of a QB's play, but I still
consider it one of the factors in it . . .

-----



successful INT?


:rofl: :lol:



interesting choice of words. . . . :D

[Dreadnought]

The QB rating basically takes four factors into consideration:

*Total yards
*Touchdowns
*Interceptions
*Completion ratio

From that perspective, yes, the QBs who are safer with the ball may have
an advantage. Actually, that is a reason it may have some merit. Even as
last Sunday showed, not throwing INTs helps to win games, and throwing
them helps to lose them . . . a major factor in the QB rating . . .

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Clarification -

Its Yards per pass attempted, not total yards, similarly its TD % and Int % rather than pure number of TD's and Ints.

In short, and to answer Ravage!!!'s question, it rewards safe QB's with low Int rates and high completion rates, but gigs them if their YPA is low. A guy like Joey Harrington always had a high completion % but it was offset some because the completions were so short. Throwing too many picks lowers your rate. Throwing too few TD's lowers it. Too many 2 yard bubble screens hurts, but less than incompletions and especially picks.

[topscribe]

Clarification -

Its Yards per pass attempted, not total yards, similarly its TD % and Int % rather than pure number of TD's and Ints.

In short, and to answer Ravage!!!'s question, it rewards safe QB's with low Int rates and high completion rates, but gigs them if their YPA is low. A guy like Joey Harrington always had a high completion % but it was offset some because the completions were so short. Throwing too many picks lowers your rate. Throwing too few TD's lowers it. Too many 2 yard bubble screens hurts, but less than incompletions and especially picks.

Thanks for that. I did oversimplify a bit . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

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[Dreadnought]

Thanks for that. I did oversimplify a bit . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

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:salute:

For those geeky enough, here's a handy-dandy QB rating calculator

http://www.primecomputing.com/

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:salute:

For those geeky enough, here's a handy-dandy QB rating calculator

http://www.primecomputing.com/

Thanks. I can do it two ways: (1) I can calculate the formula myself (which I
used to do, but not always error-fee), or (2) I use a tiny little .exe program I
have on my computer.

I went ahead and tried to use the attachment feature here. If I was
successful, anybody can download it from here. (You'll have to unzip it.)

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I already stated above that I've never looked at career QB ratings... so I'm asking you.

Please... I don't give a rats-ass who's opinion you like better, top. But if you can't continue a conversation without getting your panties in a wad, then why not just answer the question???

I can name 30 posters who's comments I value over yours, but I'm going by what you said. Or did you just say that purely to take another shot at Cutler and pump up Orton's game this week? I don't know. I already stated I've never compared the QB ratings on careers. I just don't put much value into those, either.

Rav, I'm as calm as I can be. There is only one reason I can think of that
you think I'm getting my "panties in a wad," and that is because you are
getting your panties in a wad. :laugh:

I think we'd best suspend this conversation here. :wave:

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