Jerry Rice on Marshall and other diva WR's

[nbenallo33]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/10006516/On-the-Mark:-Diva-WRs-don't-impress-Rice

by Mark Kriegel
foxsports.net

[skycoyote]

I agree, but a good manager would have never let it get to this point. This whole Marshall thing is ridiculous.

[GEM]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/10006516/On-the-Mark:-Diva-WRs-don't-impress-Rice

by Mark Kriegel
foxsports.net


Jerry Rice saw the same clip everybody else did:

Brandon Marshall walking while his teammates ran.

Brandon Marshall punting a ball he should've handed to the ball boy.

Brandon Marshall dropping passes on purpose.

"That's something you don't do," Rice said Monday morning. "You don't drop footballs. What if your teammates see you do something like that?"

Suffice it to characterize Rice's reaction as offended disbelief.

"I never thought it would come to this," he said.

By "it," he means the state of wide receiver-dom, something he takes very seriously. "I don't think the love of the game is there anymore. It's all about me, me, me and getting that big payday ... Things have gotten out of hand with the wide receivers."

The position has a deserved reputation for having the flakiest, most selfish and egocentric players in all of American sports. And Marshall, whose antics earned him a suspension for the duration of the preseason, isn't even the latest in the parade that began more than a decade ago with Keyshawn "Gimme the Damn Ball" Johnson. Already, there are knuckleheads lined up to take his place, beginning with Michael Crabtree, who's still pissed off he wasn't picked in the top five.

"When I came in the league it was about earning your money, justifying your job," said Rice. "I always believed once you sign a contract, you're obligated to it. Or you work it out in-house. Michael Crabtree wants the money up front — before he ever puts on the uniform."

Don't mistake Rice's reservations for resentful ravings of a retired man. He's fully aware of, say, Larry Fitzgerald's old-school virtue. But he also knows that for every Larry Fitzgerald, there's a T.O. or an Ochocinco or a Plaxico, or, before his improbable second act with the Patriots, a Randy Moss. Wide receiver is the new reality show, a production infected with pathological narcissism.

"We're divas now," Rice said wistfully.

The NFL's all-time touchdown leader, Rice had 1,549 catches and 22,895 yards (almost four and a half perilous miles by my calculation) spread over 20 seasons. While some players brag about their thousand-yard seasons, Rice got a thousand (in just 10 games) on Deion Sanders alone. Rice is more than the best receiver in history. Given the fact that Jim Brown played just nine seasons, he's arguably the best player.

That's not to say he couldn't be selfish. Or ego-driven. In fact, he had to be. They all do.

To do the job properly, one must reconcile himself with the certainty of the blindside hit, with the defender's intent to decapitate. You must need the ball, as the need has to outweigh any fear or doubt. (In that respect, I understand, even admire, Keyshawn's self-proclaimed ethos. I'll always give him that: he never cared about the hitter, only the ball).

"It takes a special man to tell himself, 'I'm going to catch this ball no matter what, no matter the guy trying to take my head off,' " said Rice. "You have to be willing to jeopardize your body. You have to want the football, and you have to want it when everything is on the line. Like Michael Jordan in basketball. A receiver has got to be like that.

"You have to be selfish."

The issue, then, is the expression of that selfishness. "I demanded the ball in game situations," recalled Rice. "But I didn't tell Joe Montana or Steve Young to throw me the ball. They could tell just from my body language. You don't distract the team."

You don't drop passes in practice. You don't embarrass yourself. And that's what so many of these guys have become: embarrassments.

The Brandon Marshall case seems particularly galling to Rice. He saw Marshall up close, just a couple of months ago at Fitzgerald's training camp for receivers in Minnesota.

"I didn't realize the kid was that big," said Rice. "And unbelievably talented."

Rice had a little aptitude for the position as well. But the greatest component of his talent — like Jordan's — was the ability to work harder, longer and more precisely than the other talented guys.

"It was all about technique to me," he recalled. "You don't see that anymore at the wide receiver position."

Such insistence on technique was partly born of necessity. In 1985, when Rice was a rookie, defensive backs were still allowed to manhandle receivers, bumping and chucking them all over the field.

Perhaps the new generation of receivers have been emboldened by the rules. I wonder if they'd talk so much if they were hit like, say, running backs?

Rice considered the question, but only for a moment. "Nah," he said. "Guys like Ocho and Terrell Owens still would've been the same."

And here, Rice finally seized on an explanation, or at least the beginnings of one. Perhaps it's not the players who have changed so much as the coaches who've indulged their expensive vanities.

Brandon Marshall, he figures, wouldn't have dared to drop balls under Bill Walsh.

There'd be no suspension, said Rice. "He'd have been on the first Greyhound home."

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I agree, but a good manager would have never let it get to this point. This whole Marshall thing is ridiculous.

Not sure what you mean by stating that a good manager would have never let it get to this point.

[GEM]

Excellent article. Learn some lessons Brandon. You aren't owed anything in this league but the contract you agreed to. In a bad year, can the team come to you and say hey..you had a shitty year, we want $500K of your salary back.

I'm sick of hearing how he's owed, he earned, he this, he that. Don't feel sorry for the team. The TEAM is who I am a fan of. If HE hadn't been a complete moron in college, he would have been 1st round talent. As it stands....Eddie Royal was taken in a higher round than you...because of the character he holds important. He thinks he's earned more money....well, not so quick...you earned a 4th round draft pick and agreed to a 4th round draft picks salary. Your review comes up when contract is up or your play on the field and your character tells a front office you deserve it earlier, yours hasn't.

So shut up, catch an effing ball and EARN your big payday.

[GEM]

Not sure what you mean by stating that a good manager would have never let it get to this point.

More McDaniels bashing when it has nothing to do with the intent of the thread.

[G_Money]

Excellent article. Learn some lessons Brandon. You aren't owed anything in this league but the contract you agreed to. In a bad year, can the team come to you and say hey..you had a shitty year, we want $500K of your salary back.

I'm sick of hearing how he's owed, he earned, he this, he that. Don't feel sorry for the team. The TEAM is who I am a fan of. If HE hadn't been a complete moron in college, he would have been 1st round talent. As it stands....Eddie Royal was taken in a higher round than you...because of the character he holds important. He thinks he's earned more money....well, not so quick...you earned a 4th round draft pick and agreed to a 4th round draft picks salary. Your review comes up when contract is up or your play on the field and your character tells a front office you deserve it earlier, yours hasn't.

So shut up, catch an effing ball and EARN your big payday.

I agree with this, except Brandon is getting screwed by the collective bargaining agreement. When he signed his contract it was for 3 years, 4th as a RFA, then Free Agency.

Now that the agreement is ending he's had 2 more RFA years tacked on to the end per CBA rules. So unlike guys drafted a year before him and guys drafted a year after him, he's stuck with 2 MORE years before FA.

Nothing excuses his behavior, but Marshall should be a FA next year and isn't, through no fault of his own. He should be getting his tens of millions guaranteed and he can't. That + hip injuries + what SHOULD be medical malpractice by our staff + Brandon's natural tendencies toward jackassery = the issue at hand.

~G

[GEM]

I agree with this, except Brandon is getting screwed by the collective bargaining agreement. When he signed his contract it was for 3 years, 4th as a RFA, then Free Agency.

Now that the agreement is ending he's had 2 more RFA years tacked on to the end per CBA rules. So unlike guys drafted a year before him and guys drafted a year after him, he's stuck with 2 MORE years before FA.

Nothing excuses his behavior, but Marshall should be a FA next year and isn't, through no fault of his own. He should be getting his tens of millions guaranteed and he can't. That + hip injuries + what SHOULD be medical malpractice by our staff + Brandon's natural tendencies toward jackassery = the issue at hand.

~G

It's also no fault of the teams. If it wasn't for his own behavior, Bowlen would have already given him his big payday. There's too much risk for the team to do it now.

Marshall has made all the beds he has laid in...actions have consequences.

[skycoyote]

Not sure what you mean by stating that a good manager would have never let it get to this point.

How many time have you seen a player act like that in practice? Myself none. Also, is it true that Bowlen told Marshall he would get a new contract? If Bowlen did then Marshall has a right to be miffed, probably not to the extent he's taken it, because he was lied too. If Marshall is just "making this all up" then his agent needs to have a long talk with him. As a new head coach with only two years experience as an offensive coordinator, and the proverbial F..... New Guy, I think his hard line stance on off the field issues might be best left to the owner or GM since McD has not earned any respect from players or his peers. So in my opinion I believe that the GM, and Marshall's agent are the one's who have not worked for the best interest's of Brandon. OBTW, has anyone heard from the GM lately?

[Kaylore]

I agree, but a good manager would have never let it get to this point. This whole Marshall thing is ridiculous.

So what would this "good" manager have done differently? Offered him an extension after getting arrested again for the umpteenth time in March, or offered it as he went to court for beating on a woman? Or maybe offered him an extension after he kicked the ball away from the 12 year old ball boy?

[Mike]

How many time have you seen a player act like that in practice? Myself none. Also, is it true that Bowlen told Marshall he would get a new contract? If Bowlen did then Marshall has a right to be miffed, probably not to the extent he's taken it, because he was lied too. If Marshall is just "making this all up" then his agent needs to have a long talk with him. As a new head coach with only two years experience as an offensive coordinator, and the proverbial F..... New Guy, I think his hard line stance on off the field issues might be best left to the owner or GM since McD has not earned any respect from players or his peers. So in my opinion I believe that the GM, and Marshall's agent are the one's who have not worked for the best interest's of Brandon. OBTW, has anyone heard from the GM lately?

It is really tragic that people today are so set in avoiding accountability for your own actions. Blame the owner, blame the coach, blame the agent...everyone except yourself.

As far as the article goes, this will stop when teams have enough with it. But that would mean putting principles before the almighty dollar, so I doubt we ever see it.

[silkamilkamonico]

I agree, but a good manager would have never let it get to this point.

Terrible, deflecting the fact that acting 7th grade is completely unacceptable regardless of what has happened with any player/coach/manager/owner.

[claymore]

So what would this "good" manager have done differently? Offered him an extension after getting arrested again for the umpteenth time in March, or offered it as he went to court for beating on a woman? Or maybe offered him an extension after he kicked the ball away from the 12 year old ball boy?

Known this was going to be an issue, and known trading his best friend franchise QB would make it a bigger issue.

It was poor planning. By our front office in general.

[claymore]

Terrible, deflecting the fact that acting 7th grade is completely unacceptable regardless of what has happened with any player/coach/manager/owner.

It is, but there is no way to punish marshall unless the CBA changes, or if other owners refuse to pay problem players/holdouts etc...

[skycoyote]

So what would this "good" manager have done differently? Offered him an extension after getting arrested again for the umpteenth time in March, or offered it as he went to court for beating on a woman? Or maybe offered him an extension after he kicked the ball away from the 12 year old ball boy?

Well first of all I believe that a good General Manager is the foundation of a great team. He is the one that makes the personnel decisions. I have not heard Sh... from Xanders. Why is Bowlen making deals with players? Josh seems to have the reins from the front office, which is not a good idea for a freshman head coach, heck Shanny couldn't handle both jobs either. I seems to me that the Broncos kitchen is not in order and it shows. As far a Marshall goes, how about give him one of those BIG incentive lace contracts that are absolutely worthless if you don't produce. I'm just speculating cause I am not a NFL contract negotiator, I'm just a monday morning quarterback. I guess what I saying is that the GM needs to start being accountable.

[silkamilkamonico]

It is, but there is no way to punish marshall unless the CBA changes, or if other owners refuse to pay problem players/holdouts etc...

I think you do punish him, for the sake of the other players. Players that hold out aren't causing distractions to the other players during practice. Same can be said for other problem players that have issues away from the field.

Stokley said it best when he said something needed to happen because you can't have someone clowning around at practice when there's 70+ other players trying to stay focused on what they're doing.

[silkamilkamonico]

As far a Marshall goes, how about give him one of those BIG incentive lace contracts that are absolutely worthless if you don't produce.

Marshall would have to be a fool to take a deal like that. Why? no guaranteed money.

[MOtorboat]

Known this was going to be an issue, and known trading his best friend franchise QB would make it a bigger issue.

It was poor planning. By our front office in general.

This is all on Marshall. Every last drop of it.

[claymore]

I think you do punish him, for the sake of the other players. Players that hold out aren't causing distractions to the other players during practice. Same can be said for other problem players that have issues away from the field.

Stokley said it best when he said something needed to happen because you can't have someone clowning around at practice when there's 70+ other players trying to stay focused on what they're doing.

We can only suspend him 4 more games. Which will cost him 500k. I dont consider that punishment.

I dont like the way he is acting, but dont see it changing. If we wanted to send a message we could cut him. But someone would give him allot of money. And that isnt really a strong message.

We are bent over a barrel. Because no solution helps us.

[claymore]

This is all on Marshall. Every last drop of it.

I understand that. But a front office with some forsight could have prevented some of this damage.

[DenBronx]

Excellent article. Learn some lessons Brandon. You aren't owed anything in this league but the contract you agreed to. In a bad year, can the team come to you and say hey..you had a shitty year, we want $500K of your salary back.

So shut up, catch an effing ball and EARN your big payday.


I like that. But teams do ask players to restructure or take pay cuts sometimes. I think LT was asked last year and refused.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Known this was going to be an issue, and known trading his best friend franchise QB would make it a bigger issue.

It was poor planning. By our front office in general.

So, by saying that it was poor planning by our front office, are you saying that even though Marshall was given a 2 game suspension for the same issue that he would be going to trial on in August, the Broncos should have given him a contract extension, fully knowing that if Marshall was found guilty, he would face a substantial suspension?

[silkamilkamonico]

We can only suspend him 4 more games. Which will cost him 500k. I dont consider that punishment.

I dont like the way he is acting, but dont see it changing. If we wanted to send a message we could cut him. But someone would give him allot of money. And that isnt really a strong message.

We are bent over a barrel. Because no solution helps us.

It's more protecting the team from his childish antics than punishment for Marshall. The team has commented and taking a stance against Marshall's situation. The best thing to do right now IMO is removing him from that enviroment so he doesn't continue to be a distraction. Maybe he sees the team doesn't appreciate the way he's been acting, and he makes a conscious decision to think about things while he's away, and come back with a committed attitude to help the team this year.

At least with him suspended the team can continue to focus without him around. "Conduct detriment to the team" is pretty clear IMHO that they suspended him for the sake of the team and not to try and send him a message.

[silkamilkamonico]

I understand that. But a front office with some forsight could have prevented some of this damage.

I understand what you're saying and don't completely disagree with it, but at the same time that's over. It happened, it's over, there's nothing anyone can do to change it, insteaad of blaming every situation from then on on something they can't control, how about the players just control their own actions so they aren't a continued distraction to the team?

[DenBronx]

We can only suspend him 4 more games. Which will cost him 500k. I dont consider that punishment.

I dont like the way he is acting, but dont see it changing. If we wanted to send a message we could cut him. But someone would give him allot of money. And that isnt really a strong message.

We are bent over a barrel. Because no solution helps us.

the broncos really have no choice at this point. we cant trade him for picks because he has hurt his value. maybe we can trade him for players but really who is available with his kind of talent? our wr's are not that good without him and our offense doesnt scare anyone. we can force him to play and keep franchising him but then were dishing out 10-15 for two years and at the end he will refuse to resign here anyway. that would be 20-30 mill in franchise money.

so why not just pay him now? it's not like we don't have the money. he knows he has lost some money with his off field issues and in house issues. he isnt going to get a contract like jennings from green bay and he knows it. if we just gave him a new deal this would all go away and marshall would be scoring td's this year. why not put a clause that says he must stay out of trouble or he will only get his original salary of 2.2 mill? if he doesnt act up and performs then he gets paid.

simple.

[Slick]

I understand that. But a front office with some forsight could have prevented some of this damage.

...or an organization with some stones. Suspend him the very first time he gets arrested. These guys are given chance after chance. They don't even think about accountability until it's too late.

[claymore]

So, by saying that it was poor planning by our front office, are you saying that even though Marshall was given a 2 game suspension for the same issue that he would be going to trial on in August, the Broncos should have given him a contract extension, fully knowing that if Marshall was found guilty, he would face a substantial suspension?

No, not saying that at all.

There are multiple things that could have been done.

A. Know that trading Cutler would have a negative affect on Marshall.
B. Know Marshall was close to a contract year, and he might not want to ruin his 08 numbers by risking putting up less under a new system and new QB.
C. Could have payed him, and chalked it up as swallowing a poison pill to survive the Cutler thing.


point is we had options and time. Now we have to wait on a team to suffer a major WR injury in order for his trade value to go up.

[MOtorboat]

I understand that. But a front office with some forsight could have prevented some of this damage.

How? By paying a player a ton of money when he was facing possible suspension for legal trouble? Or by trading a player for pennies on the dollar?

That's not good business-sense at all.

[claymore]

I understand what you're saying and don't completely disagree with it, but at the same time that's over. It happened, it's over, there's nothing anyone can do to change it, insteaad of blaming every situation from then on on something they can't control, how about the players just control their own actions so they aren't a continued distraction to the team?I understand its in the past. I see your point. IMO there has been 3 major snafu's by this organization this offseason.


...or an organization with some stones. Suspend him the very first time he gets arrested. These guys are given chance after chance. They don't even think about accountability until it's too late.

That is the CBA stuff im talking about. Players with mad talent know they can do whatever they want because someone will always pay them.

[MOtorboat]

No, not saying that at all.

There are multiple things that could have been done.

A. Know that trading Cutler would have a negative affect on Marshall.
B. Know Marshall was close to a contract year, and he might not want to ruin his 08 numbers by risking putting up less under a new system and new QB.
C. Could have payed him, and chalked it up as swallowing a poison pill to survive the Cutler thing.


point is we had options and time. Now we have to wait on a team to suffer a major WR injury in order for his trade value to go up.

You're completely warping the situation around Marshall.

Not good business sense at all.

[claymore]

How? By paying a player a ton of money when he was facing possible suspension for legal trouble? Or by trading a player for pennies on the dollar?

That's not good business-sense at all.

Those 2 would have prevented this mess. His worth was more then than it is now.

I dont see what else we can do to punish him. 4 more game checks isnt going to be enough.

[claymore]

You're completely warping the situation around Marshall.

Not good business sense at all.

His stock is plummeting.

He wont play for us.

We cant force him.

We can only suspend him for 4 more games.

what else is our options? If we dont want value in return, we might as well cut him.

[MOtorboat]

A. Know that trading Cutler would have a negative affect on Marshall.

You don't, not trade someone, because it might make someone unhappy. If anyone was going to get pissed, it was Sheffler. He's being a team player, isn't he? He's coming up for contract, isn't he?


B. Know Marshall was close to a contract year, and he might not want to ruin his 08 numbers by risking putting up less under a new system and new QB.

Not the only player on the team coming up for a contract year. The fact remains that had Marshall not had legal trouble, he would be getting a contract based on his '08 numbers. There's nothing the organization could do from stopping the legal trouble, unless you're going to start blaming him for being a woman-beater. :noidea:


C. Could have payed him, and chalked it up as swallowing a poison pill to survive the Cutler thing.

He didn't deserve to get paid and he's under contract. Too bad, so sad, that's life.

[claymore]

You don't, not trade someone, because it might make someone unhappy. If anyone was going to get pissed, it was Sheffler. He's being a team player, isn't he? He's coming up for contract, isn't he?

If the 2 players in question accounted for the majority of your offense you do.

Sheffler isnt a special talent. Sheffler cant afford to pull the same antics.



Not the only player on the team coming up for a contract year. The fact remains that had Marshall not had legal trouble, he would be getting a contract based on his '08 numbers. There's nothing the organization could do from stopping the legal trouble, unless you're going to start blaming him for being a woman-beater. :noidea:He was aquitted. Im not blaming him for the woman beater stuff.

He made his bed. I just want compensation for him. thats all I want.




He didn't deserve to get paid and he's under contract. Too bad, so sad, that's life.
I agree, but handling it that way has produced negative results. And that is why I am saying our front office has handled this poorly.

[Kaylore]

Known this was going to be an issue, and known trading his best friend franchise QB would make it a bigger issue.

It was poor planning. By our front office in general.

What a worthless post. So your answer is they "should have known" and you have no course of action? How do you know they didn't know?

I bet you're just pissed about McDaniels and want to somehow make this situation his fault. Fact is that with Mike Shanahan as head coach Marshall still holds out.


I agree, but handling it that way has produced negative results. And that is why I am saying our front office has handled this poorly.
This is priceless. So Marshall's "negative" results are the front office's fault? Your whole argument is essentially saying that Marshall isn't responsible for any of his actions. So if you say hello to someone and they punch you in the face you're going to say "Obviously I produce negative results when I say hello to people! Clearly that guy is a normal upstanding individual and my actions are wrong because if they weren't he would have been a good guy!"

:lol:

[FanInAZ]

My favorate excerpts from the article:

Suffice it to characterize Rice's reaction as offended disbelief.

"I never thought it would come to this," he said.

By "it," he means the state of wide receiver-dom, something he takes very seriously. "I don't think the love of the game is there anymore. It's all about me, me, me and getting that big payday ... Things have gotten out of hand with the wide receivers."

************************************************** **************************************************

"When I came in the league it was about earning your money, justifying your job," said Rice. "I always believed once you sign a contract, you're obligated to it. Or you work it out in-house. Michael Crabtree wants the money up front — before he ever puts on the uniform."

Don't mistake Rice's reservations for resentful ravings of a retired man. He's fully aware of, say, Larry Fitzgerald's old-school virtue. But he also knows that for every Larry Fitzgerald, there's a T.O. or an Ochocinco or a Plaxico, or, before his improbable second act with the Patriots, a Randy Moss. Wide receiver is the new reality show, a production infected with pathological narcissism.

"We're divas now," Rice said wistfully.

The NFL's all-time touchdown leader, Rice had 1,549 catches and 22,895 yards (almost 13 perilous miles by my calculation) spread over 20 seasons. While some players brag about their thousand-yard seasons, Rice got a thousand (in just 10 games) on Deion Sanders alone. Rice is more than the best receiver in history. Given the fact that Jim Brown played just nine seasons, he's arguably the best player.

************************************************** **************************************************

The issue, then, is the expression of that selfishness. "I demanded the ball in game situations," recalled Rice. "But I didn't tell Joe Montana or Steve Young to throw me the ball. They could tell just from my body language. You don't distract the team."

You don't drop passes in practice. You don't embarrass yourself. And that's what so many of these guys have become: embarrassments.

[G_Money]

What a worthless post. So your answer is they "should have known" and you have no course of action? How do you know they didn't know?

I bet you're just pissed about McDaniels and want to somehow make this situation his fault. Fact is that with Mike Shanahan as head coach Marshall still holds out.


This is priceless. So Marshall's "negative" results are the front office's fault? Your whole argument is essentially saying that Marshall isn't responsible for any of his actions. So if you say hello to someone and they punch you in the face you're going to say "Obviously I produce negative results when I say hello to people! Clearly that guy is a normal upstanding individual and my actions are wrong because if they weren't he would have been a good guy!"

:lol:


Situation: Your Pro-Bowl, back-to-back 100-catch receiver is a primadonna and an off-the-field suspension threat who is coming back from injury and is pissed at your team for his medical woes that they mis-diagnosed. It wasn't your team then, but you still have to clean up the mess. He wants a raise to soothe his pride and his fear, and possibly so he can afford to beat more women and get suspended.

Solution: You refuse to pay him a dime extra, tell the team not to say they're happy for him when his off-the-field antics are cleared up and he remains un-suspended, and refuse to trade him. So he's not getting paid what his production is worth, he feels he probably never will by you, he knows you don't "have his back" because of what you told the team to say, you traded his friend and QB after the coach who believed in him was fired, and he can't get out to another team but you feel he should come in and play hard for you anyway - knowing he's a primadonna with trust and ego issues.

Result: He blows up like a tinderbox, destroys whatever trade value he had, acts like a ridiculous child and forces you to suspend him, and now not only do you not have a Pro-Bowl, back-to-back 100-catch primadonna receiver around to help your offense but you can't recoup what he was worth as an asset just a couple of months ago even injured and are stuck with a headache who is unlikely to perform on or off the field.

The situation was not good, and was not AT ALL Josh's fault. It was Brandon's fault, compounded by our medical staff.

The solution fixed nothing. Ergo, it was a bad solution. Why is the crappy situation a perfectly valid reason to lynch somebody, but the crappy solution is something to be praised?

I guess it confuses me. :confused:

Marshall is a dumbass. A talented but wisdom-lobotomized buffoon.

Knowing Marshall is a dumbass - as we've known for a while - it's been frustrating to watch the Broncos exacerbate and enable his dumbassery and help turn a potentially very valuable - if volatile - piece into a pile of junk that can't help us.

~G

[Denver Native (Carol)]

No, not saying that at all.

There are multiple things that could have been done.

A. Know that trading Cutler would have a negative affect on Marshall.
B. Know Marshall was close to a contract year, and he might not want to ruin his 08 numbers by risking putting up less under a new system and new QB.
C. Could have payed him, and chalked it up as swallowing a poison pill to survive the Cutler thing.


point is we had options and time. Now we have to wait on a team to suffer a major WR injury in order for his trade value to go up.

Are you saying that the Broncos are at fault because they should have realized that Marshall is a ME player - i.e. upset because Cutler is gone, upset because with the new system he would not put up the same numbers as he did in 08?????

How damn stupid of the Broncos - They should always reward ME players - not TEAM players - oh and bigger rewards for ME players who constantly get in trouble off the field.

[claymore]

What a worthless post. So your answer is they "should have known" and you have no course of action? How do you know they didn't know?

I bet you're just pissed about McDaniels and want to somehow make this situation his fault. Fact is that with Mike Shanahan as head coach Marshall still holds out.


This is priceless. So Marshall's "negative" results are the front office's fault? Your whole argument is essentially saying that Marshall isn't responsible for any of his actions. So if you say hello to someone and they punch you in the face you're going to say "Obviously I produce negative results when I say hello to people! Clearly that guy is a normal upstanding individual and my actions are wrong because if they weren't he would have been a good guy!"

:lol:Try to keep it civil pal. Our front office handled this poorly. Their poor planning, and failure to judge people is becoming apparent.

This will get worse.

[Lonestar]

I agree with this, except Brandon is getting screwed by the collective bargaining agreement. When he signed his contract it was for 3 years, 4th as a RFA, then Free Agency.

Now that the agreement is ending he's had 2 more RFA years tacked on to the end per CBA rules. So unlike guys drafted a year before him and guys drafted a year after him, he's stuck with 2 MORE years before FA.

Nothing excuses his behavior, but Marshall should be a FA next year and isn't, through no fault of his own. He should be getting his tens of millions guaranteed and he can't. That + hip injuries + what SHOULD be medical malpractice by our staff + Brandon's natural tendencies toward jackassery = the issue at hand.

~G

HE had an option of NOT signing a contract with those provisions in them but he wanted to play for whatever they gave him.. I do not remember him missing any days because he was not signed..

I'm sure some one already brought this up but had he not been arrested or had 13 police reports since coming to the broncos, had he not screwed up the arm in last years off season. I suspect he would have been embraced by the GM and they would have worked something out in the spring..

he screwed the pooch and has NO ONE but him and his agent to blame..

[claymore]

Are you saying that the Broncos are at fault because they should have realized that Marshall is a ME player - i.e. upset because Cutler is gone, upset because with the new system he would not put up the same numbers as he did in 08?????

How damn stupid of the Broncos - They should always reward ME players - not TEAM players

They should have tried and minimized the damage to his trade value. Very rarely do you have a 4th rd player that has 1st rd trade value.

We managed to let it slip thru our fingers.

[NightTrainLayne]

Try to keep it civil pal. Our front office handled this poorly. Their poor planning, and failure to judge people is becoming apparent.

This will get worse.

You can't have your cake and eat it too Clay.

You can't blame it all on their inability to judge character, because their judgement of his character is why he doesn't have the contract he wants.

[Lonestar]

We can only suspend him 4 more games. Which will cost him 500k. I dont consider that punishment.

I dont like the way he is acting, but dont see it changing. If we wanted to send a message we could cut him. But someone would give him allot of money. And that isnt really a strong message.

We are bent over a barrel. Because no solution helps us.


I believe you are wrong, IIRC the ruling said they can only suspend players 4 games at a time before allowing them to come back.. and allowing them to show they GET IT..

There was nothing in it that I read that said he can't be suspended for another 4 games.. or another 4 or another 4..

that could be up to $550K each time he gets a time out..

[claymore]

You can't have your cake and eat it too Clay.

You can't blame it all on their inability to judge character, because their judgement of his character is why he doesn't have the contract he wants.

All I want in this marshall mess is a draft pick. I dont care what he gets paid.

Its not only the inability to judge character, it is the inability to defuse the situation.

Tough guy suspensions arent going to work for this scenario. It might make some of you guys feel better, but Marshall will get his way.

There has to be a scenario amicable to both the Broncos and Marshall. That scenario should have been one of the top priorities the second JMCD took over.

Marshall is a special talent you plan for. We only have a couple it shouldnt have been hard.

[claymore]

I believe you are wrong, IIRC the ruling said they can only suspend players 4 games at a time before allowing them to come back.. and allowing them to show they GET IT..

There was nothing in it that I read that said he can't be suspended for another 4 games.. or another 4 or another 4..

that could be up to $550K each time he gets a time out..


Conduct detrimental to Club—maximum fine of an amount equal to one week’s salary and/or suspension without pay for a period not to exceed four (4) weeks. This maximum applies without limitation to any deactivation of a player in response to player conduct (other than a deactivation in response to a player’s onfield playing ability), and any such deactivation, even with pay, shall be considered discipline subject to the limits set forth in this section. The Non-Injury Grievance Arbitrator’s decision in Terrell Owens (Nov. 23, 2005) is thus expressly overruled as to any Club decision to deactivate a player in response to the player’s conduct.

http://www.nflplayers.com/user/template.aspx?fmid=181&lmid=231&pid=519&type=c

Or we could basically cut him.

[Lonestar]

http://www.nflplayers.com/user/template.aspx?fmid=181&lmid=231&pid=519&type=c

Or we could basically cut him.


as the article I was quoting said it could only be done 4 weeks at a time..

which the rules above are not specific about.. since it does not specifically say it can not be done the article sounded like it can be done after allowing him to come back and prove he can be an asset to the team..


But the suspension stuff is or will be handled by lawyers that are above my pay grade.. :D

[G_Money]

"I'm going to treat everyone the same" works about as well as "I only want players of good character on my team." Which is to say that it's a good idea...as far as it goes.

Why?

There aren't enough good character and TALENTED players to allow every team to forego all their bad apples, and not every player is the same.

As a manager if you can't be flexible with your talent pool and give ego strokes to the people who need it and crack the whip for the people who need that you'll never get 100% out of your workforce.

If you're a complete hardass about doing it Your Way instead of relating to you employees on a level they understand, you'll lose the people you can't connect with.

If you have an unlimited talent pool, that's okay: just replace them with guys who think like you.

The NFL is not an unlimited talent pool, and other teams want the same kinda guys you want. If you can't manage to find a way to harness the talents of the guys who AREN'T ideal but ARE talented, I don't see how you win big.

Who here thinks Romo was the easiest guy to get along with? That Neil Smith didn't have ego and primadonna issues? That Zimmerman wasn't a prickly SOB if you rubbed him the wrong way?

Not everybody is gonna be a dream to work with. Cutler was prickly, Marshall has an ego the size of NY and a brain the size of a walnut. Both are ridiculously talented players who still have not harnessed everything they can do on a football field even with their records and accolades.

Maybe they never will harness it all due to their personality types. But throwing them overboard and being totally incapable of DEALING with that personality type doesn't bode well, because it's not like either are singular occurances in the league. Those guys will be FAs we need, high picks we draft, or players we already have. The way Josh has dealt with them so far is doing us no favors. I hope he figures out a different approach.

Because even if we're better off without both guys, it's not helping us to go about disposing of our different-personality-guys this way we have.

~G

[claymore]

as the article I was quoting said it could only be done 4 weeks at a time..

which the rules above are not specific about.. since it does not specifically say it can not be done the article sounded like it can be done after allowing him to come back and prove he can be an asset to the team..


But the suspension stuff is or will be handled by lawyers that are above my pay grade.. :D

I read it as 4 weeks. Thats why the TO rule came about. You cannot just send the player home on payed leave. Which was the only recourse the Eagles had for TO after his initial 4 game suspension.

In my eyes the Broncos have no leverage.

[Lonestar]

I read it as 4 weeks. Thats why the TO rule came about. You cannot just send the player home on payed leave. Which was the only recourse the Eagles had for TO after his initial 4 game suspension.

In my eyes the Broncos have no leverage.


well I think your in a the minority here..

and it just says 4 weeks unpaid at a time..

again I'll let the legal beagles deal with it when and if it becomes a problem

I suspect that moron will get it when he comes back for game 1.. if he does not then it will be another four weeks if they can suspend him again they will if not he sets for the year on the inactive sqaud.. and they place a high tender offer as a RFA.. and go through the whole process again next year..

sooner or later even this moron will get it he is not going any where this year and by acting like a petulant child it lowers his inherent value..

[Northman]

It is really tragic that people today are so set in avoiding accountability for your own actions.



What is this word "accountability" you speak of Mike?


Dont you know they should be able to be thugs and be gangsta and get paid while slapping their hoe's? Where's your head at man?

[Northman]

Nothing excuses his behavior, but Marshall should be a FA next year and isn't, through no fault of his own. He should be getting his tens of millions guaranteed and he can't. That + hip injuries + what SHOULD be medical malpractice by our staff + Brandon's natural tendencies toward jackassery = the issue at hand.

~G

You just gave him an excuse. Fact is, Brandon would of already been making his millions had he behaved off the field. Again, accountability. Its not a hard concept to grasp. There is only one person to blame for why he isnt getting his duckets. Brandon ******* Marshall.

[pnbronco]

So one of the great WR of our time Jerry Rice said...

"That's something you don't do," Rice said Monday morning. "You don't drop footballs. What if your teammates see you do something like that?"

Suffice it to characterize Rice's reaction as offended disbelief.

"I never thought it would come to this," he said.

By "it," he means the state of wide receiver-dom, something he takes very seriously. "I don't think the love of the game is there anymore. It's all about me, me, me and getting that big payday ... Things have gotten out of hand with the wide receivers."

So a mostly likely first round future Hall of Famer that played WR calls out another WR on his behavior and it's the Bronco's FO fault???

Why should Marshall want to be accountable for his actions?

The more I read the more I miss hockey.

[ursamajor]

Brandon Marshall, he figures, wouldn't have dared to drop balls under Bill Walsh.

There'd be no suspension, said Rice. "He'd have been on the first Greyhound home."Tell it Jerry.

Look, I know that the fact that Brandon needs to be cut is an inconvienent truth. But it is the only choice to make for a HC that has a desire to win. Now if winning is not a priority, then by alk means, keep Brandon.

Lombardi, Landry, Walsh, Gibbs, Parcells, Belicheck etc would have handed Marshall his walking papers in the following fashion:

Get the f of my field, and clear your locker. You are done.