Get this off my chest

[cruscntrl]

OK, I need to get this off my chest before the season starts.
In my opinion, McDaniel's and Cutlers personality did not mix. Most seasoned head coaches know that you have to be able to handle the large egos of some of the great players i.e. Phil Jackson/Kobe Bryant. If you look at it many of the great players had and have large egos. I also think Cutler didn't want to have to listen to this upstart kid who didn't give him his kudos but wanted to be on a team who thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. Well Cutler was smart, because thats just what he got. I'm in Chicago now and these guys are wetting their pants because they have Cutler.

Another thing, Bronco Football has always been exciting because we have had gun slingers that can rocket the ball downfield. The Chicago fans were sick of a short passing game and dink and dunk down the field. This is why they are so excited having Cutler.

So bottom line. .. McDs ego won't let him give kudos to Cutler. Cutler thinks McD is a young punk and would rather go somewhere where they think he's the bomb then to stay and deal with McD and be compared to Elway.

Bottom Line 2.. Lets face it we traded away an extremely talented quarterback for some draft picks and an ok quarterback. And as mentioned on Sunday night McDs career will be highlighted by this decision.

Part 2:
What is it with McD throwing the red challenge flag on obviously losing challenges and not throwing it when Brandon Loyd stuck the ball over the goal line? McD better get up to speed with the replay booth for the regular season.

I know this all sounds negative but allot of kinks have to be worked out before the season and I hate making excuses for losing. And I can't stand the fluffy spin that goes on (mistakes were made but positive things happened) etc etc. Makes me sick. Lets win a darned game, no excuses.

[yardog]

Welcome.

IMO you better get all your excuses lined up ahead of time because I think we are going to need them.

[Dortoh]

OK, I need to get this off my chest before the season starts.
In my opinion, McDaniel's and Cutlers personality did not mix. Most seasoned head coaches know that you have to be able to handle the large egos of some of the great players i.e. Phil Jackson/Kobe Bryant. If you look at it many of the great players had and have large egos. I also think Cutler didn't want to have to listen to this upstart kid who didn't give him his kudos but wanted to be on a team who thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. Well Cutler was smart, because thats just what he got. I'm in Chicago now and these guys are wetting their pants because they have Cutler.

Another thing, Bronco Football has always been exciting because we have had gun slingers that can rocket the ball downfield. The Chicago fans were sick of a short passing game and dink and dunk down the field. This is why they are so excited having Cutler.

So bottom line. .. McDs ego won't let him give kudos to Cutler. Cutler thinks McD is a young punk and would rather go somewhere where they think he's the bomb then to stay and deal with McD and be compared to Elway.

Bottom Line 2.. Lets face it we traded away an extremely talented quarterback for some draft picks and an ok quarterback. And as mentioned on Sunday night McDs career will be highlighted by this decision.

Part 2:
What is it with McD throwing the red challenge flag on obviously losing challenges and not throwing it when Brandon Loyd stuck the ball over the goal line? McD better get up to speed with the replay booth for the regular season.

I know this all sounds negative but allot of kinks have to be worked out before the season and I hate making excuses for losing. And I can't stand the fluffy spin that goes on (mistakes were made but positive things happened) etc etc. Makes me sick. Lets win a darned game, no excuses.

an OK qb then why are we playing Orton instead of him. :lol:

[Northman]

I know this all sounds negative but allot of kinks have to be worked out before the season and I hate making excuses for losing.

1) Where were you the last 3 years when we were losing?

2) There are kinks that need to be worked out, but they wont be worked out in 3 preseason games. Ill let you know at the end of the year where we stand.

[cruscntrl]

Ok its preseason but, we haven't won a game. Maybe it doesn't mean anything. I hope so.
Past years we have been losing, but thats because Shani had his problems too. (mainly defensive toughness) However he did get the offense together and if we had won any of the last three games, different story. I hope McDs plans come together and we see a tough D and well run, precise O marching down the field, outsmarting the D and scoring in the redzone.
Bottom line, the season is here in a week and a half, then it gets real.

[LRtagger]

I think every member here should start a new thread stating their opinion on the Cutler/McDaniels situation.

cruscntrl, you start.

[claymore]

I think every member here should start a new thread stating their opinion on the Cutler/McDaniels situation.

cruscntrl, you start.

Its a sensitive time. Doesnt cost Tned anymore time. We should be here for each other.

[Overtime]

k thx bye!

[LRtagger]

Its a sensitive time. Doesnt cost Tned anymore time. We should be here for each other.

Clay I'm here for you.

[Superchop 7]

A new head coach.

Chased a franchise QB out of town.

Idiot.

[MOtorboat]

I just get it off my chest
Never had to battle with no bulletproof vest
Take a small example
A tip from me take all of your money and give it up to charity
Lovin's what I got
It's within my reach
And the sublime style's still straight from long beach
It all comes back to you you're gonna get what you deserve
Try and test that you're bound to get served
Love's what I got
Don't start a riot
You feel it when the dance gets hot, hot
Lovin...
It's what I got...

[Dean]

Um, ok.








:confused:

[BroncoJoe]

Ok its preseason but, we haven't won a game.

Said it in another thread, but it applies here too:

Detroit went 4-0 last year in preseason.

BFD.

[Lancane]

Said it in another thread, but it applies here too:

Detroit went 4-0 last year in preseason.

BFD.

And I said this in another thread, Simms will always be a journeyman quarterback. Orton rode the coat-tails of the Bear's defense and Chicago knew as much so they were giddy as children on Christmas to get an actual quarterback in Cutler...Brandstater was a save face pick for McDummy. But as you pointed out, it is only pre-season, then again in practice and scrimmages if you play like crap and look like crap, well then you're likely nothing more then crap...no matter if it counts or not.

[BroncoJoe]

And I said this in another thread, Simms will always be a journeyman quarterback. Orton rode the coat-tails of the Bear's defense and Chicago knew as much so they were giddy as children on Christmas to get an actual quarterback in Cutler...Brandstater was a save face pick for McDummy. But as you pointed out, it is only pre-season, then again in practice and scrimmages if you play like crap and look like crap, well then you're likely nothing more then crap...no matter if it counts or not.

Your point? How do your explain Detroit going 4-0 last year in preseason? Based on your "logic", Detroit should have won the Superbowl. Oh wait - they were 0-16. Even with all those "practices and scrimmages". The Bears' defense is/was nothing like what they've enjoyed in the past. Ranked in the 20's recently.

BTW, what's Cutler's record since turning pro?

Done.

[Lancane]

Your point? How do your explain Detroit going 4-0 last year in preseason? Based on your "logic", Detroit should have won the Superbowl. Oh wait - they were 0-16. Even with all those "practices and scrimmages. The Bears' defense is/was nothing like what they've enjoyed in the past. Ranked in the 20's recently.

BTW, what's Cutler's record since turning pro?

Done.

Did you forget that second and third teams play as well? And the Bears defense has been among the upper echelon for nearly a decade, maybe not first or top five, but they are not slackers by any means. Who cares what Cutler's pro record is, what's McDummy's...oops wait, the numbnuts hasn't proven shit yet!

[BroncoJoe]

Did you forget that second and third teams play as well? And the Bears defense has been among the upper echelon for nearly a decade, maybe not first or top five, but they are not slackers by any means. Who cares what Cutler's pro record is, what's McDummy's...oops wait, the numbnuts hasn't proven shit yet!

One thing we'll agree - McDaniels (his proper name, btw) hasn't proved anything yet. Either negative or positive.

Oh, and the Bears' defense is a shadow of their former selves. They're really not all that great. If anything, they've played in a soft division.

[MOtorboat]

Did you forget that second and third teams play as well? And the Bears defense has been among the upper echelon for nearly a decade, maybe not first or top five, but they are not slackers by any means. Who cares what Cutler's pro record is, what's McDummy's...oops wait, the numbnuts hasn't proven shit yet!

Good lord, can we give him a chance to prove something before calling him dumbass names that make you look stupid?

Oh, wait...no, we can't, we just have to come up with stupid-ass little nicknames to try and prove a point, that isn't provable...

When challenged with Cutler's record, it's usually not a smart thing to bring up McDaniels' record, because, well...Cutler has choked three years in a row...I'll wait and see what McDaniels does, because he has no record, Cutler does. He was a choker.

Now, can we have a grown up conversation, or are we going to use childish nicknames to try and prove an idiotic point?

[Dreadnought]

Good lord, can we give him a chance to prove something before calling him dumbass names that make you look stupid?

Oh, wait...no, we can't, we just have to come up with stupid-ass little nicknames to try and prove a point, that isn't provable...

When challenged with Cutler's record, it's usually not a smart thing to bring up McDaniels' record, because, well...Cutler has choked three years in a row...I'll wait and see what McDaniels does, because he has no record, Cutler does. He was a choker.

Now, can we have a grown up conversation, or are we going to use childish nicknames to try and prove an idiotic point?

I'll concede that McDaniels record is a blank slate, but lets talk about Cutler's record for just a sec. You of all guys, as a diehard baseball fan, know the value of using a W-L record to evaluate a pitcher. ERA is useful. Walks and hits allowed per 9 innings is probably more useful. Home runs surrendered per 9 innings is pretty valuable to know. W-L? Almost valueless - because it misses too much data, like run support among others. And I would argue its even more valueless for a QB than for a pitcher. Criticize his actual play, fine, I'll probably disagree but we can talk about it. W-L record? Perhaps more valuable in assessing a QB than knowing his shoe size, but not that much.

[MOtorboat]

I'll concede that McDaniels record is a blank slate, but lets talk about Cutler's record for just a sec. You of all guys, as a diehard baseball fan, know the value of using a W-L record to evaluate a pitcher. ERA is useful. Walks and hits allowed per 9 innings is probably more useful. Home runs surrendered per 9 innings is pretty valuable to know. W-L? Almost valueless - because it misses too much data, like run support among others. And I would argue its even more valueless for a QB than for a pitcher. Criticize his actual play, fine, I'll probably disagree but we can talk about it. W-L record? Perhaps more valuable in assessing a QB than knowing his shoe size, but not that much.

Well, I guess if we're going to play this game, Cutler's ERA is about 4.5, or, about the league average, because, scoring-wise, we were 15th, which is league average. Maybe he was 20-8, but he required an offense (to continue with the baseball analogy) that would bail his ass out.

The reality is, though, he had a 4.5 ERA and he was 14-12.

15th in scoring. I don't care how many yards he racked up, we were 15th in scoring. That's pathetic. And that's his job to secure.

[BroncoJoe]

I'll concede that McDaniels record is a blank slate, but lets talk about Cutler's record for just a sec. You of all guys, as a diehard baseball fan, know the value of using a W-L record to evaluate a pitcher. ERA is useful. Walks and hits allowed per 9 innings is probably more useful. Home runs surrendered per 9 innings is pretty valuable to know. W-L? Almost valueless - because it misses too much data, like run support among others. And I would argue its even more valueless for a QB than for a pitcher. Criticize his actual play, fine, I'll probably disagree but we can talk about it. W-L record? Perhaps more valuable in assessing a QB than knowing his shoe size, but not that much.

You can't compare a pitcher's stats to a NFL QB's stats. Apples and oranges.

It's all about scoring and winning.

[MOtorboat]

You can't compare a pitcher's stats to a NFL QB's stats. Apples and oranges.

It's all about scoring and winning.

I know I rambled a little in the last response, but this is a great point...pitchers are actually "defense" and quarterbacks are "offense." The analogy isn't very good.

[Dreadnought]

Well, I guess if we're going to play this game, Cutler's ERA is about 4.5, or, about the league average, because, scoring-wise, we were 15th, which is league average. He was 20-8, but he required an offense (to continue with the baseball analogy) that would bail his ass out.

15th in scoring. I don't care how many yards he racked up, we were 15th in scoring. That's pathetic. And that's his job to secure.

No doubt, he's one of the guys charged with doing that. Field position matters a lot too, running backs matter a lot, turnovers forced even more. It would have been kind of nice for our limp **** defense and sorry ass special teams of 2008 to have provided some short fields and even better some cheap TD's, but that seemed beyond their capability, So I'd give him a solid 3.30 ERA myself

[MOtorboat]

No doubt, he's one of the guys charged with doing that. Field position matters a lot too, running backs matter a lot, turnovers forced even more. It would have been kind of nice for our limp **** defense and sorry ass special teams of 2008 to have provided some short fields and even better some cheap TD's, but that seemed beyond their capability, So I'd give him a solid 3.30 ERA myself

The two aren't comparable.

He was 15th in scoring. 15th. He also was at the helm of the worst divisional collapse in NFL history.

I'm just amazed at the people who rave and rave about how bad McDaniels is, but they won't sit back and realize how bad the end of the season was last year.

NO ONE. NO ONE had a worse end to their season EVER. EVER. EVER. It was the WORST EVER.

I don't even know I can emphasize that more?

[Dreadnought]

You can't compare a pitcher's stats to a NFL QB's stats. Apples and oranges.

It's all about scoring and winning.

Of course its a bit of a dumb analogy Joe - but then so is judging a QB by W-L. YPA? Yep, a biggie IMO. TD to Int ratio? Pretty good. QB rating? I like the stat, though I know thats not universal. Completion %? Nearly useless. AQnd so on. I like 3rd down conversion rate a lot myself.

[Asian Sushi 7]

The two aren't comparable.

He was 15th in scoring. 15th. He also was at the helm of the worst divisional collapse in NFL history.

I'm just amazed at the people who rave and rave about how bad McDaniels is, but they won't sit back and realize how bad the end of the season was last year.

NO ONE. NO ONE had a worse end to their season EVER. EVER. EVER. It was the WORST EVER.

I don't even know I can emphasize that more?

win as team lose as team, like communist, but with no ho chi minh trail!

Read!

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

[Dreadnought]

The two aren't comparable.

He was 15th in scoring. 15th. He also was at the helm of the worst divisional collapse in NFL history.

I'm just amazed at the people who rave and rave about how bad McDaniels is, but they won't sit back and realize how bad the end of the season was last year.

NO ONE. NO ONE had a worse end to their season EVER. EVER. EVER. It was the WORST EVER.

I don't even know I can emphasize that more?

You can't, and I lived it too. Bob Slowick. he cost Shanny his job, he cost us the playoffs, and he may have cost us some championships, which i think we weren't that far from. So i am as bitter as you are. i wish (figuratively of course0 i could leave flaming dog turds on his step. i curse Shanny for his stubbornness in clingling tom that stiff. Everything flows from Bob Slowick and that utter piece of crap we fielded last year. We won nearly all of the games we could keep close, remember, and thats when QB play matters most. And yes, key QB errors v. the Bills were awful. Against the Chargers in December? No QB ever born could have won that game, because we had virtually no stops. It was humiliating, and 90-95% of the fault for that mess is on our D.

[MOtorboat]

Of course its a bit of a dumb analogy Joe - but then so is judging a QB by W-L. YPA? Yep, a biggie IMO. TD to Int ratio? Pretty good. QB rating? I like the stat, though I know thats not universal. Completion %? Nearly useless. AQnd so on. I like 3rd down conversion rate a lot myself.

Then what are you worried about?

TD-INT Ratio?
Orton's TD-INT Ratio: 1.5
Cutler's TD-INT Ratio: 1.3

QB Rating?
Orton's Rating: 79.6
Cutler's Rating: 86

I'm not seeing too much of a difference here...

[MOtorboat]

win as team lose as team, like communist, but with no ho chi minh trail!

Read!

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Win as a team, lose as a team. 15th in scoring.

[Asian Sushi 7]

You can't, and I lived it too. Bob Slowick. he cost Shanny his job, he cost us the playoffs, and he may have cost us some championships, which i think we weren't that far from. So i am as bitter as you are. i wish (figuratively of course0 i could leave flaming dog turds on his step. i curse Shanny for his stubbornness in clingling tom that stiff. Everything flows from Bob Slowick and that utter piece of crap we fielded last year. We won nearly all of the games we could keep close, remember, and thats when QB play matters most. And yes, key QB errors v. the Bills were awful. Against the Chargers in December? No QB ever born could have won that game, because we had virtually no stops. It was humiliating, and 90-95% of the fault for that mess is on our D.

We far away to get 53 points one game. Defense rotted washed up squid on china beach with dana dalaney

[Dreadnought]

Then what are you worried about?

TD-INT Ratio?
Orton's TD-INT Ratio: 1.5
Cutler's TD-INT Ratio: 1.3

QB Rating?
Orton's Rating: 79.6
Cutler's Rating: 86

I'm not seeing too much of a difference here...

Ah, but you missed the important stat...YPA. Orton's is putrid, and thats been due to lack of a deep ball w/ Chicago. Maybe it was Chicago's system, or WR's, or O-Line. Its possible, and he has upgraded all 3 by coming here, so maybe he'll improve on that sub-Kordell Stewart 5.8 YPA of his here. Or maybe he just sucks. That could be too. But you' can't not be worried given his performance in Chicago

[Asian Sushi 7]

Win as a team, lose as a team. 15th in scoring.

15 scoring defeat 31 in defense. your tone scary

[MOtorboat]

Ah, but you missed the important stat...YPA. Orton's is putrid, and thats been due to lack of a deep ball w/ Chicago. Maybe it was Chicago's system, or WR's, or O-Line. Its possible, and he has upgraded all 3 by coming here, so maybe he'll improve on that sub-Kordell Stewart 5.8 YPA of his here. Or maybe he just sucks. That could be too. But you' can't not be worried given his performance in Chicago

Asian Sushi teach me win as team lose as team. Yards per catch be based on wide receivers and defense.

[Asian Sushi 7]

Asian Sushi teach me win as team lose as team. Yards per catch be based on wide receivers and defense.

You like where aksu River and Yarkand river meet. all muddy.

[MOtorboat]

You like where aksu River and Yarkand river meet. all muddy.

Me love you long time.

[Dreadnought]

Yards per catch be based on wide receivers and defense

YPC isn't quite the same as YPA, and is more useful in assessing a receiver IMO. Even that's deceptive, because Eddie Royal's last year was not good. I blame calling about 200% excess useless bubble screens late in the year, when our play calling in general became les and less effective as we had fewer and fewer RB's suited up each game.

[MOtorboat]

YPC isn't quite the same as YPA, and is more useful in assessing a receiver IMO. Even that's deceptive, because Eddie Royal's last year was not good. I blame calling about 200% excess useless bubble screens late in the year, when our play calling in general became les and less effective as we had fewer and fewer RB's suited up each game.

Receivers catch ball. No problem.

[cruscntrl]

feeling you Missouri