View Full Version : A Broncos Nation Divided
A Broncos Nation Divided
As Jay Cutler marched the Bears on a 98 yard scoring drive, the game day
thread on BroncosForums.com was spiraling out of control. The fans of
cutler cursing new coach Josh McDaniels. The fans that have washed their
hands of Cutler, cursing the announcers that went on and on about how a
team never trades a franchise Quarterback -- about the gift that fell in Lovie
Smith's lap. The fans of Mike Shanahan cursing Pat Bowlen, because they
felt that Mr. Bowlen pulled the trigger too soon on firing Shanahan. All in all,
a divided forum -- a divided Broncos nation.
With each penalty, with each injury, the divide widened, the tempers flared
more. A nation in turmoil, fan against fan, a virtual civil war ripping apart
the Broncos nation.
BroncosForums wasn't alone. Similar meltdowns were occurring on message
boards and blogs across the internet, not to mention bars and living rooms
across the Rocky Mountains. How did such a great fan base fall into such
disarray? How could so many fans watch the same events unfold over the
offseason, over the last five or ten years, yet see those events in such
different ways?
The beginning of the end for Mike Shanahan started just under nine months
ago, when the Broncos held a three game lead with three games left in the
season. Surely, the Broncos two year playoff drought would end -- all that
was needed was one win in the final three games. Then the unthinkable
happens, not only do the Broncos lose in weeks 15 and 16, but the chargers
win in those same weeks, and then the lead is down to one game. Still,
there is hope, beat San Diego and the AFC West title returns to Denver.
When the game was over, the Broncos not only lost, but were blown out in
a way Denver fans had not seen in years. The Broncos defense surrendered
more points than any Broncos team in nearly 20 years. The Chargers
finished with a team record 289 rushing yards, and their offense fell only a
few yards short of 500 yards.
It was an end to the season that few had envisioned. The Broncos became
the first team in over forty years to blow a three game lead with three
games to play.
Still, there was hope. Even with seven Broncos running backs finishing the
season on injured reserve, the Broncos offense finished second in the league
in total offense and third in passing offense.
As bad as the season ended, hope for the new season already started to
emerge. The feeling that with the fire power of Cutler, Marshall, Royal,
Clady and the rest of the offense, all that was needed was to shore up the
defense -- just put an average, middle of the pack defense on the field to
give the offense a chance to win.
Little did Broncos fans know that the historic three game implosion to end
the season would just be a ripple compared to the waves they would endure
this offseason.
A couple days after the season ended, Mike Shanahan was fired. After
leading the Broncos to two Super Bowls and having one of the best winning
percentages in the NFL over the previous 14 years, and even the ten years
since Elway retired, three straight losing seasons and blowing a three game
lead for the division title lead Pat Bowlen to believe it was time to make a
change.
As the shock wore off, Broncos fans again felt hope. With one of the top
offenses in football, surely Pat Bowlen would hire a defensive wizard to
come in and put a defense on the field to support the offense. Yes,
Shanahan's firing came as a shock to many, but then the thought of getting
a defensive head coach, once again brought hope to the Broncos faithful.
Then, in another surprising move, Mr. Bowlen hires Josh McDaniels, a young
offensive coordinator who was coming off a great three year run in New
England. When this new shock faded, the talk of bringing in Don Capers,
Mike Nolan or another proven defensive coordinator once again brought
some hope to the fans.
As if things couldn't get any worse, after news leaked that Josh McDaniels
was involved in trade talks to ship out Jay Cutler in exchange for Matt
Cassel, the one year starter that he had worked with for four years in New
England, Cutler asked to be traded. Surely the nightmare of the last four
months couldn't continue, there was no way that McDaniels and Cutler
wouldn't be able to sit down and work it out. Not this offseason, the word
'surely' had no place. Cutler was soon traded to the Chicago Bears for two
first round picks and Kyle Orton.
At almost the same time that Cutler was being traded, Brandon Marshall was
undergoing surgery on his hip, which he believed was misdiagnosed by the
Broncos medical staff the previous year. A couple months later, as he is
rehabbing from the surgery, his anger at the Broncos failure to renegotiate
his contract, combined with the hip diagnosis, lead him to walk out of the
Broncos offseason camp, and ultimately lead to Marshall's suspension for
disrupting practice and conduct detrimental to the team.
In nine short months, the Broncos went from a shoe in to win the AFC West,
to having a new head coach, Kyle Orton under center in place of Jay Cutler,
and Brandon Marshall, only the ninth player in NFL history to have
back-to-back 100 reception seasons, was suspended for conduct detrimental to
the team.
Could things get any worse?
That's what Broncos fans were thinking on Sunday night as they watched
Kyle Orton walk off the field holding up a bloody finger, knowing full well that
backup Chris Simms had been knocked out of commission the week before with a sprained
ankle. Moments later, Jay Cutler, the onetime franchise quarterback of the
Broncos, now wearing a Bears uniform, took the field on his own two
yard line. In five painful minutes, Cutler marched the Bears down the field,
with the final stake to the heart being a six yard pass to Matt Forte for a
touchdown. Yet, it was only preseason.
It was only preseason. These new Broncos, with the new quarterback and
the new coaching staff, and their new look 3-4 defense had yet to play a
regular season game. It was only preseason.
As the fans tore each other apart on the message boards and blogs, you
might have thought that it was actually January, 2010, with the Broncos
having missed the playoffs for a fourth straight year. Even the division of
the Jake Plummer years paled in comparison to what we saw as the
frustration of the past nine months came to a head as Chris Collinsworth
said, "teams just don't trade away franchise quarterbacks" as Cutler marched
the Bears down the field, reminding fans -- those that loved him and those
that hated him -- of what could have been.
Long into the night, after the game had ended, just a preseason game at
that, peace was not to be found among the fans. The fans of the same
team, fans of the great Denver Broncos were civil no more. Civility, a word
long forgotten, lost sometime between the Shanahan firing and the Marshall
suspension. For many, the word hope also had disappeared from their
vocabulary, lost sometime over these nine painful months.
The Broncos will become a winning franchise again. Maybe this year. Maybe
next year. Maybe three or four years from now. The Broncos will again rise
to the top of the NFL ranks. The only question is when it will happen.
However, that is not the only question that the Broncos nation faces. They
face another 'when'. When will the fans of one of the classiest franchises in
the NFL begin to once again treat each other with class, with respect?
How long before we see a time when Broncos fans can discuss the state of
the Broncos and even disagree while still treating each other with respect --
with civility.
Being one of the NFL's elite franchises, isn't just about wins and losses, it's
about how you talk about the game, how you treat your fellow fan. In this
area, the collapse of the Denver Broncos to end the 2008 season pales in
comparison to the collapse of the Broncos nation -- to the Denver fans
feeding on their own.
While the fans have no control over who is hired or fired. Have no control
over who is traded, drafted or suspended. Have no control over overthrown
balls, dropped passes or missed tackles. They do have control over one
thing.
How they treat their fellow fan.
skycoyote
08-31-2009, 10:13 PM
Tned I have said from the begining, Josh McDaniels got this job because he was a John Carroll College Reptilian and he has no business being a NFL head coach.
P.S. I don't care about Cutler anymore he is GONE. I have moved on.
Tned I have said from the begining, Josh McDaniels got this job because he was a John Carroll College Reptilian and he has no business being a NFL head coach.
There is no way you read that 10,000 word essay that quick. ;)
broncogirl7
08-31-2009, 10:17 PM
I think the division in the fan base got worse after having to watch Cutler and the Bears perform well and Orton and the Broncos not so well. Top that off with the injuries and you get some disgruntled fans.
G_Money
08-31-2009, 10:19 PM
I did.
Sounds about right to me. :salute:
~G
skycoyote
08-31-2009, 10:21 PM
There is no way you read that 10,000 word essay that quick. ;)
Just lucky I guess.
rcsodak
08-31-2009, 10:28 PM
Tned I have said from the begining, Josh McDaniels got this job because he was a John Carroll College Reptilian and he has no business being a NFL head coach.
P.S. I don't care about Cutler anymore he is GONE. I have moved on.
Funny....haha
Ironic, how players say McD has the most knowledgeable football mind they've seen....."beyond his years", ProBowlers say.
Then there are the no-nothing, message board know-it-alls, that surmise that he's garbage, and doesn't belong in the NFL.
I think I'll take the opines of the KNOWLEDGEABLE people over the monday morning qb's of the world, thank you very much.
rcsodak
08-31-2009, 10:31 PM
There is no way you read that 10,000 word essay that quick. ;)
Essay? umm....no.
Bibliography? yes.
10k words? no doubt! :D
Denver Native (Carol)
08-31-2009, 10:34 PM
What a GREAT post Tned.:salute:
I am sure everyone will get out of it what they want, but for me, the following is the MOST important, BECAUSE it is the ONLY thing that we can control:
"While the fans have no control over who is hired or fired. Have no control over who is traded, drafted or suspended. Have no control over overthrown balls, dropped passes or missed tackles. They do have control over one thing.
How they treat their fellow fan."
Well, not only are some not reading my 10,000 word essay, they are helping illustrate the point... :sad:
TXBRONC
08-31-2009, 10:36 PM
It is sad to see.
TXBRONC
08-31-2009, 10:38 PM
Well, not only are some not reading my 10,000 word essay, they are helping illustrate the point... :sad:
Some people just can not let things go.
Thnikkaman
08-31-2009, 10:39 PM
A Broncos Nation Divided
As Jay Cutler marched the Bears on a 98 yard scoring drive, the game day
thread on BroncosForums.com was spiraling out of control. The fans of
cutler cursing new coach Josh McDaniels. The fans that have washed their
hands of Cutler, cursing the announcers that went on and on about how a
team never trades a franchise Quarterback -- about the gift that fell in Lovie
Smith's lap. The fans of Mike Shanahan cursing Pat Bowlen, because they
felt that Mr. Bowlen pulled the trigger too soon on firing Shanahan. All in all,
a divided forum -- a divided Broncos nation.
With each penalty, with each injury, the divide widened, the tempers flared
more. A nation in turmoil, fan against fan, a virtual civil war ripping apart
the Broncos nation.
BroncosForums wasn't alone. Similar meltdowns were occurring on message
boards and blogs across the internet, not to mention bars and living rooms
across the Rocky Mountains. How did such a great fan base fall into such
disarray? How could so many fans watch the same events unfold over the
offseason, over the last five or ten years, yet see those events in such
different ways?
The beginning of the end for Mike Shanahan started just under nine months
ago, when the Broncos held a three game lead with three games left in the
season. Surely, the Broncos two year playoff drought would end -- all that
was needed was one win in the final three games. Then the unthinkable
happens, not only do the Broncos lose in weeks 15 and 16, but the chargers
win in those same weeks, and then the lead is down to one game. Still,
there is hope, beat San Diego and the AFC West title returns to Denver.
When the game was over, the Broncos not only lost, but were blown out in
a way Denver fans had not seen in years. The Broncos defense surrendered
more points than any Broncos team in nearly 20 years. The Chargers
finished with a team record 289 rushing yards, and their offense fell only a
few yards short of 500 yards.
It was an end to the season that few had envisioned. The Broncos became
the first team in over forty years to blow a three game lead with three
games to play.
Still, there was hope. Even with seven Broncos running backs finishing the
season on injured reserve, the Broncos offense finished second in the league
in total offense and third in passing offense.
As bad as the season ended, hope for the new season already started to
emerge. The feeling that with the fire power of Cutler, Marshall, Royal,
Clady and the rest of the offense, all that was needed was to shore up the
defense -- just put an average, middle of the pack defense on the field to
give the offense a chance to win.
Little did Broncos fans know that the historic three game implosion to end
the season would just be a ripple compared to the waves they would endure
this offseason.
A couple days after the season ended, Mike Shanahan was fired. After
leading the Broncos to two Super Bowls and having one of the best winning
percentages in the NFL over the previous 14 years, and even the ten years
since Elway retired, three straight losing seasons and blowing a three game
lead for the division title lead Pat Bowlen to believe it was time to make a
change.
As the shock wore off, Broncos fans again felt hope. With one of the top
offenses in football, surely Pat Bowlen would hire a defensive wizard to
come in and put a defense on the field to support the offense. Yes,
Shanahan's firing came as a shock to many, but then the thought of getting
a defensive head coach, once again brought hope to the Broncos faithful.
Then, in another surprising move, Mr. Bowlen hires Josh McDaniels, a young
offensive coordinator who was coming off a great three year run in New
England. When this new shock faded, the talk of bringing in Don Capers,
Mike Nolan or another proven defensive coordinator once again brought
some hope to the fans.
As if things couldn't get any worse, after news leaked that Josh McDaniels
was involved in trade talks to ship out Jay Cutler in exchange for Matt
Cassel, the one year starter that he had worked with for four years in New
England, Cutler asked to be traded. Surely the nightmare of the last four
months couldn't continue, there was no way that McDaniels and Cutler
wouldn't be able to sit down and work it out. Not this offseason, the word
'surely' had no place. Cutler was soon traded to the Chicago Bears for two
first round picks and Kyle Orton.
At almost the same time that Cutler was being traded, Brandon Marshall was
undergoing surgery on his hip, which he believed was misdiagnosed by the
Broncos medical staff the previous year. A couple months later, as he is
rehabbing from the surgery, his anger at the Broncos failure to renegotiate
his contract, combined with the hip diagnosis, lead him to walk out of the
Broncos offseason camp, and ultimately lead to Marshall's suspension for
disrupting practice and conduct detrimental to the team.
In nine short months, the Broncos went from a shoe in to win the AFC West,
to having a new head coach, Kyle Orton under center in place of Jay Cutler,
and Brandon Marshall, only the ninth player in NFL history to have
back-to-back 100 yard seasons, was suspended for conduct detrimental to
the team.
Could things get any worse?
That's what Broncos fans were thinking on Sunday night as they watched
Kyle Orton walk off the field holding up a bloody finger, knowing full well that
backup Chris Simms was knocked out the week before with a sprained
ankle. Moments later, Jay Cutler, the onetime franchise quarterback of the
Broncos, now wearing a Bears uniform, took the field on his own the two
yard line. In five painful minutes, Cutler marched the Bears down the field,
with the final stake to the heart being a six yard pass to Matt Forte for a
touchdown. Yet, it was only preseason.
It was only preseason. These new Broncos, with the new quarterback and
the new coaching staff, and their new look 3-4 defense had yet to play a
regular season game. It was only preseason.
As the fans tore each other apart on the message boards and blogs, you
might have thought that it was actually January, 2010, with the Broncos
having missed the playoffs for a fourth straight year. Even the division of
the Jake Plummer years paled in comparison to what we saw as the
frustration of the past nine months came to a head as Chris Collinsworth
said, "teams just don't trade away franchise quarterbacks" as Cutler marched
the Bears down the field, reminding fans -- those that loved him and those
that hated him -- of what could have been.
Long into the night, after the game had ended, just a preseason game at
that, peace was not to be found among the fans. The fans of the same
team, fans of the great Denver Broncos were civil no more. Civility, a word
long forgotten, lost sometime between the Shanahan firing and the Marshall
suspension. For many, the word hope also had disappeared from their
vocabulary, lost sometime over these nine painful months.
The Broncos will become a winning franchise again. Maybe this year. Maybe
next year. Maybe three or four years from now. The Broncos will again rise
to the top of the NFL ranks. The only question is when it will happen.
However, that is not the only question that the Broncos nation faces. They
face another 'when'. When will the fans of one of the classiest franchises in
the NFL begin to once again treat each other with class, with respect?
How long before we see a time when Broncos fans can discuss the state of
the Broncos and even disagree while still treating each other with respect --
with civility.
Being one of the NFL's elite franchises, isn't just about wins and losses, it's
about how you talk about the game, how you treat your fellow fan. In this
area, the collapse of the Denver Broncos to end the 2008 season pales in
comparison to the collapse of the Broncos nation -- to the Denver fans
feeding on their own.
While the fans have no control over who is hired or fired. Have no control
over who is traded, drafted or suspended. Have no control over overthrown
balls, dropped passes or missed tackles. They do have control over one
thing.
How they treat their fellow fan.
Sorry Tned. Needed to edit it for readability. Content has not changed, just narrowed it. (Trust me).
I need cliff notes. I ain't reading that shit.
NameUsedBefore
08-31-2009, 10:44 PM
I go to CC.
Fixed.
I need cliff notes. I ain't reading that shit.
While the fans have no control over who is hired or fired. They do have control over one thing--How they treat their fellow fan.
...
Sorry Tned. Needed to edit it for readability. Content has not changed, just narrowed it. (Trust me).
Yes, it is better. I typically hate putting hard carriage returns in, but without margins it is necessary. I'll take yours and move it up. thx.
topscribe
08-31-2009, 10:51 PM
Sorry Tned. Needed to edit it for readability. Content has not changed, just narrowed it. (Trust me).
Well, now it's all italicized. I ain't reading 10,000 italicized words . . . :aetsch:
-----
Thnikkaman
08-31-2009, 10:55 PM
It would be nice if vBulleten supported a width tag or something. In fact, here:
AdminCP -> Custom BB Codes -> Add New BB Code
Title: Article Width
Tag: Width
Replacement: <div style="width: 40%;">{param}</div>
pnbronco
08-31-2009, 10:56 PM
Great post Tned and so well put.
I read we can communicate with respect, but it's a choice.
Actually the strangest thing last night, at least where I was sitting that no one got nasty with each other. Oh it wasn't fun having about 8 Bears fans around us, but we were all really civil. I didn't hear any nasty comments on Bronco players, coaches or Bowlen. We did all yell and stomp our feet and many yelled at Cutler, but that was about it.
There was only one guy outside when we were standing at the fence and he was drunk. He made some pretty nasty comments and someone answered back, but then everyone turned their back on him and ignored him. He got tired of yelling to himself and left.
Thank you for taking to time to express how much you care about this team and the members on Broncos Forums.....:salute:
Superchop 7
08-31-2009, 10:59 PM
Back to back "100" yard seasons ? (needs fixed)
You forgot to mention how much Joe Ellis sucks, might wanna add that.
If there is no spell check, it's spelled S_U_C_K_S.
I would follow the word sucks with a dozen exclamation points.
You want to be accurate in conveying the sentiment.
Just sayin
TXBRONC
08-31-2009, 11:02 PM
Back to back "100" yard seasons ? (needs fixed)
You forgot to mention how much Joe Ellis sucks, might wanna add that.
If there is no spell check, it's spelled S_U_C_K_S.
I would follow the word sucks with a dozen exclamation points.
You want to be accurate in conveying the sentiment.
Just sayin
Chop I have no idea what you're trying to say?
skycoyote
08-31-2009, 11:26 PM
Funny....haha
Ironic, how players say McD has the most knowledgeable football mind they've seen....."beyond his years", ProBowlers say.
Then there are the no-nothing, message board know-it-alls, that surmise that he's garbage, and doesn't belong in the NFL.
I think I'll take the opines of the KNOWLEDGEABLE people over the monday morning qb's of the world, thank you very much.
What players are you refering too? I listened to Cris Collinsworth and Rodney Harrison on NBC (Live) Sunday Night Football imply through conversation that McDaniels was dysfunctional for letting (I will not say his name) a "franchise" quarterback be traded. I'll start with those two. Furthermore as far as Josh McDaniels goes he has two years experience as an offensive coordinator under a head coach that everybody knows "runs-the-show." So if I think he is lacking experience as a offensive "mastermind" please forgive me. So players who's pay checks are signed by Pat Bowlen don't count in my opinion.
As far as "no-nothing , message board know-it-alls, that surmise that he's garbage, and doesn't belong in the NFL." Well, we on this board can have our opinions, but, unlike South Dakota, we cannot be our sisters son.
frauschieze
08-31-2009, 11:50 PM
Man, some people have major reading comprehension fail.
It's sad, really.
It would be nice if vBulleten supported a width tag or something. In fact, here:
AdminCP -> Custom BB Codes -> Add New BB Code
Title: Article Width
Tag: Width
Replacement: <div style="width: 40%;">{param}</div>
Thanks. I added it. There is an icon on the toolbar (far right, looks like a page of typing) for the width tag.
Back to back "100" yard seasons ? (needs fixed)
You forgot to mention how much Joe Ellis sucks, might wanna add that.
If there is no spell check, it's spelled S_U_C_K_S.
I would follow the word sucks with a dozen exclamation points.
You want to be accurate in conveying the sentiment.
Just sayin
Wow, does your negative rap have to find it's way into EVERY thread in GD? I mean, I get it, you don't like it....but here's the thing, no one is forcing you to watch and there isn't a damn thing you could say that will change what is already done. So......
I don't think you got the point of the original post, because nothing you posted has a single thing to do with the point of the thread. In fact, I'd push it to say...your post is aligned with part of the problem right now. Quit trolling threads with the bs.
Northman
09-01-2009, 12:04 AM
Solid post Tned as usual. However, i think its pretty obvious whenever Carol or someone trys to post a positive article to keep up the hope and support for upcoming season there is always the negative individuals who come in and try to bring everyone down. That unfortuantely is where it starts but hey, they have the right to voice their opinions but that is definitely where the problem starts. Just looking at the recent bannings you have the usual suspects. Its unfortuante that a few on here just cant move on and refuse to do it. Pretty sad actually when you have to be so pessimistic 24-7. But, good try never the less Tned.
Northman
09-01-2009, 12:04 AM
Wow, does your negative rap have to find it's way into EVERY thread in GD? I mean, I get it, you don't like it....but here's the thing, no one is forcing you to watch and there isn't a damn thing you could say that will change what is already done. So......
I don't think you got the point of the original post, because nothing you posted has a single thing to do with the point of the thread. In fact, I'd push it to say...your post is aligned with part of the problem right now. Quit trolling threads with the bs.
^case in point.
horsepig
09-01-2009, 12:09 AM
There's one hell of a lot of non football talk going on.
Shazam!
09-01-2009, 12:19 AM
I am hardly the pessimist here, and I think we've all seen stranger things happen, not just in the NFL, but all of sports to think Denver can't turn it around. I have faith in McD and will not condemn him yet until he fails in teh regular season.
I also hate teh divide too. It has spilled over into every thread with the pessimism 'McD sucks, Orton sucks, the Broncos suck, Cutler is Jesus, Bowlen is shit, etc' is disgusting to read after awhile. What I also found interesting that the majority of Broncos Nation at the STADIUM booed Cutler loudly, and some dressed as babies (that was hilarious). So, many fans have moved on.
I like the civility aspect of the article and was much needed, but there are a few issues with the content that I feel are a little biased, off, or something.
1-Shanahan clearly deserved to be fired. His pathetic defense patchwork in '07 and '08 led back to the same conclusion, 'All they need is a defense' and Shanahan had that problem too many times to believe he can fix it. Also, a lack of motivation, inspiration and occasional sloppy play the last two years and losing home games didn't do much good for him.
2-The Offense was far from this scoring juggernaut that some people made it out to be and the ST was disatrous. It's not like this was the AFC Pro Bowl squad aside from the defense.
3-Serious conditioning issues led to catastrophic injuries that got worse and worse over the last two years.
4-Denver is/was far from a 'shoe-in' for the AFC West Division title even with Shanahan and Cutler. Sure, SD has gotten older and LT is theoretically finished, but they've been the Division Champion since 2006. They still have a helluva team there until they're knocked off. They were only .500 but it took a lot of guts to turn things around like they did, especially after the early pastings they got. Denver wasn't a shoe-in for anything. KC and Oakland won't be awful forever either.
5-Sure, most expected a defensive coach, but McDaniels was one of the hottest head coaching commodities around and was far from a disastrous choice in hindsight. We should be happy that they got one of the top assistants available that are highly sought after every year. They did what they could to bring one of the best guys in that was available, whatever the opinion is of him now and we should appreciate it.
I'm a diehard if they go 2-14. Or worse.
I've lived through tough, tough Broncos seasons before and have felt crushed many times.
There were better days ahead then, and there will be coming.
Go :defense:
I am hardly the pessimist here, and I think we've all seen stranger things happen, not just in the NFL, but all of sports to think Denver can't turn it around. I have faith in McD and will not condemn him yet until he fails in teh regular season.
I also hate teh divide too. It has spilled over into every thread with the pessimism 'McD sucks, Orton sucks, the Broncos suck, Cutler is Jesus, Bowlen is shit, etc' is disgusting to read after awhile. What I also found interesting that the majority of Broncos Nation at the STADIUM booed Cutler loudly, and some dressed as babies (that was hilarious). So, many fans have moved on.
I like the civility aspect of the article and was much needed, but there are a few issues with the content that I feel are a little biased, off, or something.
1-Shanahan clearly deserved to be fired. His pathetic defense patchwork in '07 and '08 led back to the same conclusion, 'All they need is a defense' and Shanahan had that problem too many times to believe he can fix it. Also, a lack of motivation, inspiration and occasional sloppy play the last two years and losing home games didn't do much good for him.
2-The Offense was far from this scoring juggernaut that some people made it out to be and the ST was disatrous. It's not like this was the AFC Pro Bowl squad aside from the defense.
3-Serious conditioning issues led to catastrophic injuries that got worse and worse over the last two years.
4-Denver is/was far from a 'shoe-in' for the AFC West Division title even with Shanahan and Cutler. Sure, SD has gotten older and LT is theoretically finished, but they've been the Division Champion since 2006. They still have a helluva team there until they're knocked off. They were only .500 but it took a lot of guts to turn things around like they did, especially after the early pastings they got. Denver wasn't a shoe-in for anything. KC and Oakland won't be awful forever either.
5-Sure, most expected a defensive coach, but McDaniels was one of the hottest head coaching commodities around and was far from a disastrous choice in hindsight. We should be happy that they got one of the top assistants available that are highly sought after every year. They did what they could to bring one of the best guys in that was available, whatever the opinion is of him now and we should appreciate it.
I'm a diehard if they go 2-14. Or worse.
I've lived through tough, tough Broncos seasons before and have felt crushed many times.
There were better days ahead then, and there will be coming.
Go :defense:
A couple points in return.
First, while you talk about the pessimism and problem with the comments of 'McD sucks, Orton sucks, the Broncos suck, Cutler is Jesus, Bowlen is shit, etc', which you call disgusting, yet you follow that by going on a Shanahan bash. This is the problem with perspective. You find it disgusting when someone bashes McDaniels and Orton who have done nothing for the Broncos 'to date', I find it disgusting when people bash Shanahan who brought us two SB rings and even in the last 10 years managed to have us in the top 5 or so in wins, without ever rebuilding, or the fans that bash Cutler -- many of which do it not because of his immaturity over being traded, but are simply still pissed that he replaced Jake.
Second, the "shoe in to win the west" was in the context of having a three game lead with three to play, and only needing to win one game to finish 9-7 and win the west. Except for the most pessimistic fans, few people that followed the NFL expected the Broncos to NOT win the west following week 14.
Third, as to bias, I laid out a cronology and attempted to be as unbiased as possible. I didn't address what I believe is McDaniels complete screwing the pooch in regards to Cutler, I didn't address what could be a huge mistake in trading away a possible top 5 draft pick for Smith, etc. I left those out, because those are simply my opinions, and rather than lace it with my opinions of what happened this offseason, I instead attempted to create a timeline of events, each one of which lead to more and more division among Broncos fans, regardless of whether they were the right moves or wrong moves (which only hindsight will show, and even with hindsight we may never knows).
Finally, I think you missed the whole point of the article, because you still are only seeing this offseason threw your eyes. As stated above, you don't like the McDaniels bashing, I didn't like the Shanahan bashing that some did both before and after his firing. Why is your viewpoint right and mine wrong?
Wouldn't it be simpler to just stop the bashing all together, or at the least, for fellow fans to stop sniping (or at times launching nasty attacks), simply because other fans hold a different opinion, have a different perspective?
Shazam!
09-01-2009, 01:23 AM
TNed, I give you kudos to your post and you always have my respect.
However, by going through the entire chronology of the events that we all know already and rehashing, someone will disagree with certain things. I wasn't starting a Shanny bashing contest either, you perceive it as such because that's what you believe, criticism of Shanahan is wrong. I've seen it in other threads. I also criticize Shanahan, not ever say he sucks or call him shit or anything like that either, that's the difference of debate and disgust. I still respect him and he's a helluva coach, but he stayed on too long in Denver. I dont care either way, it's fine, healthy discussion.
Hey, you're a Broncos fan too and see things a certain way through your eyes too. so I don't see the article as completely neutral or unbiased, but that doesn't matter either way.
I'm not out to start a pissing contest either so please don't take it that way.
You obviosuly put a ridiculous amount of work, time and effort into that well thought out post, and for all that time I am grateful one way or the other. This will all clear up in time.
TNed, I give you kudos to your post and you always have my respect.
However, by going through the entire chronology of the events that we all know already and rehashing, someone will disagree with certain things. I wasn't starting a Shanny bashing contest either, you perceive it as such because that's what you believe, criticism of Shanahan is wrong. I've seen it in other threads. I also criticize Shanahan, not ever say he sucks or call him shit or anything like that either, that's the difference of debate and disgust. I still respect him and he's a helluva coach, but he stayed on too long in Denver. I dont care either way, it's fine, healthy discussion.
Hey, you're a Broncos fan too and see things a certain way through your eyes too. so I don't see the article as completely neutral or unbiased, but that doesn't matter either way.
I'm not out to start a pissing contest either so please don't take it that way.
You obviosuly put a ridiculous amount of work, time and effort into that well thought out post, and for all that time I am grateful one way or the other. This will all clear up in time.
I have never had, and never will have, a problem with anyone criticizing Shanahan. I will disagree with some of it, not all.
Like now, where some people are frustrated with constant McDaniels bashing (I am one of them), I was frustrated most of the off season when certain posters would bash Shanny or Cutler, even in threads that weren't about them.
But, even that is only a small part of the problem. The emotions that are behind the constant attacks on McDaniels, Shanahan, Orton, Cutler, etc., is what leads us to attack fellow posters that hold a different view point than our own.
While in the end, as fans, we wear our emotions on our sleeves, but we also need to all show a 'little' restraint and not let those emotions get the best of us. Not let the emotions get in the way of common courtesy and decency.
It isn't about us all agreeing. If every one of us held the same opinion, this message board would be real boring.
As my mother used to say, and I am sure many of your mothers said, "it isn't what you say, but how you say it."
claymore
09-01-2009, 07:15 AM
Funny....haha
Ironic, how players say McD has the most knowledgeable football mind they've seen....."beyond his years", ProBowlers say.
Then there are the no-nothing, message board know-it-alls, that surmise that he's garbage, and doesn't belong in the NFL.
I think I'll take the opines of the KNOWLEDGEABLE people over the monday morning qb's of the world, thank you very much.
I will believe it when I see it. Proof is in the pudding and all he has produced thus far is a bowl of shit.
In-com-plete
09-01-2009, 07:25 AM
As bad as the season ended, hope for the new season already started to
emerge. The feeling that with the fire power of Cutler, Marshall, Royal,
Clady and the rest of the offense, all that was needed was to shore up the
defense -- just put an average, middle of the pack defense on the field to
give the offense a chance to win.
Those red 10 words right there . . . . sum up what's been wrong with this team since the '05 AFCCG.
And that's all our head coach had to do.
It doesn't matter if you feel Shanny should have never been fired. Or if you think Spag's should have been hired. Or if you're happy McKid was hired. It doesn't matter. But all the head coach of this used to be great franchise had to do was shore up the defense. If, whoever this head coach is, does that . . . most fans would be happy.
TXBRONC
09-01-2009, 07:46 AM
I have never had, and never will have, a problem with anyone criticizing Shanahan. I will disagree with some of it, not all.
Like now, where some people are frustrated with constant McDaniels bashing (I am one of them), I was frustrated most of the off season when certain posters would bash Shanny or Cutler, even in threads that weren't about them.
But, even that is only a small part of the problem. The emotions that are behind the constant attacks on McDaniels, Shanahan, Orton, Cutler, etc., is what leads us to attack fellow posters that hold a different view point than our own.
While in the end, as fans, we wear our emotions on our sleeves, but we also need to all show a 'little' restraint and not let those emotions get the best of us. Not let the emotions get in the way of common courtesy and decency.
It isn't about us all agreeing. If every one of us held the same opinion, this message board would be real boring.
As my mother used to say, and I am sure many of your mothers said, "it isn't what you say, but how you say it."
I have tried to say this myself on many occasions and many times I have gotten in the sticky wicket of letting it get to me and then jabbing back.
At any one there is usually about 3 or 4 threads that are receiving the majority of the attention and when a poster go and finds a way to bash Shanahan, McDaniels, Cutler, Orton, and so on where are you suppose to go?
Dreadnought
09-01-2009, 08:45 AM
Solid post Tned as usual. However, i think its pretty obvious whenever Carol or someone trys to post a positive article to keep up the hope and support for upcoming season there is always the negative individuals who come in and try to bring everyone down. That unfortuantely is where it starts but hey, they have the right to voice their opinions but that is definitely where the problem starts. Just looking at the recent bannings you have the usual suspects. Its unfortuante that a few on here just cant move on and refuse to do it. Pretty sad actually when you have to be so pessimistic 24-7. But, good try never the less Tned.
Just to clarify, the recent bannings had nothing to do with having a negative point of view, and everything to do with being abusive, ill-mannered, and unwilling to participate in the community andf follow the rules that are mostly established by that community. Its the bad manners and insults that were at issue, not what any particular poster thinks will be our eventual record in 2009.
Its a tough call, and point of view can't be totally seperated out. On a personal level I get just as offended by accusations leveled against fans who are unhappy with the course here as I do by the sometime relentless attacks on "McDumbass" or what have you. I see very little difference between that and strident incessant mockery of Jay Cutler...or Jake Plummer for that matter, or of their one time supporters. It has to work in both directions, and unhappiness with the program's direction does not equal being a fake fan or any of that sort of rubbish we have seen.
We as fans will always have our favorites, past, present, and future, and our own vision for how things should have or ought to be going. That's kind of why a board such as this exists. Many of us have very different ideas as to what makes a successful team, what offensive/defensive shemes work or don't work, what qualities a coach/defensive coordinator/QB/WR/MLB/RB - you name it - ought to have here, and I personally like to read well argued and reasoned postings from fans who don't agree with me. The whole thing starts to become unenjoyable when decent discussions get derailed and spammed with personal insults directed at anyone who disagrees - from any point of view. After all, I can read press releases anywhere, and know pretty well what and how much stock to put in them :D
Northman
09-01-2009, 09:50 AM
Just to clarify, the recent bannings had nothing to do with having a negative point of view,
Im aware of that. However, its no surprise that the 2 individuals who got out of hand also shared in the same pessimism and were the crux of my point. Out of the group of individuals who dislike the many moves the team has made there are only a couple of individuals who actually take the time to discuss and stte their points rationally rather than troll. And therein lies the difference to me.
TXBRONC
09-01-2009, 10:44 AM
Just to clarify, the recent bannings had nothing to do with having a negative point of view, and everything to do with being abusive, ill-mannered, and unwilling to participate in the community andf follow the rules that are mostly established by that community. Its the bad manners and insults that were at issue, not what any particular poster thinks will be our eventual record in 2009.
Its a tough call, and point of view can't be totally seperated out. On a personal level I get just as offended by accusations leveled against fans who are unhappy with the course here as I do by the sometime relentless attacks on "McDumbass" or what have you. I see very little difference between that and strident incessant mockery of Jay Cutler...or Jake Plummer for that matter, or of their one time supporters. It has to work in both directions, and unhappiness with the program's direction does not equal being a fake fan or any of that sort of rubbish we have seen.
We as fans will always have our favorites, past, present, and future, and our own vision for how things should have or ought to be going. That's kind of why a board such as this exists. Many of us have very different ideas as to what makes a successful team, what offensive/defensive shemes work or don't work, what qualities a coach/defensive coordinator/QB/WR/MLB/RB - you name it - ought to have here, and I personally like to read well argued and reasoned postings from fans who don't agree with me. The whole thing starts to become unenjoyable when decent discussions get derailed and spammed with personal insults directed at anyone who disagrees - from any point of view. After all, I can read press releases anywhere, and know pretty well what and how much stock to put in them :D
Demeaning and accusatory blanket statements bother me.
D1g1tal j1m
09-01-2009, 11:04 AM
People fear change and sometimes progress. The uncertainty of the unknown scares people, the comforts of familiarity are what most people crave.
This off-season has been the most trying and exhaustive of any that we have ever seen. Whether we succeed or failure will be determined by what happens during the season.
Fans are fans, everyone has their own views and reactions to change. Just be respectful of others' views and this community will be ok.
Slick
09-01-2009, 11:07 AM
Civility and class. That's a lot to ask of some people.
broncofaninfla
09-01-2009, 11:15 AM
Great stuff Tned!
claymore
09-01-2009, 11:18 AM
Just to clarify, the recent bannings had nothing to do with having a negative point of view, and everything to do with being abusive, ill-mannered, and unwilling to participate in the community andf follow the rules that are mostly established by that community. Its the bad manners and insults that were at issue, not what any particular poster thinks will be our eventual record in 2009.
Its a tough call, and point of view can't be totally seperated out. On a personal level I get just as offended by accusations leveled against fans who are unhappy with the course here as I do by the sometime relentless attacks on "McDumbass" or what have you. I see very little difference between that and strident incessant mockery of Jay Cutler...or Jake Plummer for that matter, or of their one time supporters. It has to work in both directions, and unhappiness with the program's direction does not equal being a fake fan or any of that sort of rubbish we have seen.
We as fans will always have our favorites, past, present, and future, and our own vision for how things should have or ought to be going. That's kind of why a board such as this exists. Many of us have very different ideas as to what makes a successful team, what offensive/defensive shemes work or don't work, what qualities a coach/defensive coordinator/QB/WR/MLB/RB - you name it - ought to have here, and I personally like to read well argued and reasoned postings from fans who don't agree with me. The whole thing starts to become unenjoyable when decent discussions get derailed and spammed with personal insults directed at anyone who disagrees - from any point of view. After all, I can read press releases anywhere, and know pretty well what and how much stock to put in them :D
Jrwiz has been insulting to the pessimists. Can you ban him?
topscribe
09-01-2009, 11:20 AM
Does this mean I have to respect Claymore?
This is going to be tougher than I thought . . . :tsk:
-----
claymore
09-01-2009, 11:21 AM
Does this mean I have to respect Claymore?
This is going to be tougher than I thought . . . :tsk:
-----
You better respect my opinion or so help me.....
TXBRONC
09-01-2009, 11:24 AM
People fear change and sometimes progress. The uncertainty of the unknown scares people, the comforts of familiarity are what most people crave.
This off-season has been the most trying and exhaustive of any that we have ever seen. Whether we succeed or failure will be determined by what happens during the season.
Fans are fans, everyone has their own views and reactions to change. Just be respectful of others' views and this community will be ok.
I don't think that most people here fear change and or progress because things like Shanahan getting fired and Cutler being traded are not in their control. The problem is the constant bashing of coaches both present and former and players both present and former. Then add to that demeaning individuals and groups of people.
I admit readily I have not always been above the fray which is only one of many short-comings.
topscribe
09-01-2009, 11:27 AM
I don't think that most people here fear change and or progress because things like Shanahan getting fired and Cutler being traded are not in their control. The problem is the constant bashing of coaches both present and former and players both present and former. Then add to that demeaning individuals and groups of people.
I admit readily I have not always been above the fray which is only one of many short-comings.
We agreed from the onset that pubic figures are fair game.
It was the fellow posters we didn't want to be the objects of abuse . . .
-----
Dortoh
09-01-2009, 11:33 AM
This is all about me coining the phrase McSheep isnt it :)
I think Denver has always had some of the most passionate fans and there are both pros and cons to that.
TXBRONC
09-01-2009, 11:48 AM
We agreed from the onset that pubic figures are fair game.
It was the fellow posters we didn't want to be the objects of abuse . . .
-----
I know that. I also know that Tned mentioned this very thing in the opening post as being a problem because it's way over done.
TXBRONC
09-01-2009, 11:49 AM
This is all about me coining the phrase McSheep isnt it :)
I think Denver has always had some of the most passionate fans and there are both pros and cons to that.
McNo it is about you coining the phrase McSheep. :D
topscribe
09-01-2009, 11:52 AM
This is all about me coining the phrase McSheep isnt it :)
I think Denver has always had some of the most passionate fans and there are both pros and cons to that.
You're so sensitive, McDortRod . . .
-----
claymore
09-01-2009, 11:54 AM
You're so sensitive, McDortRod . . .
-----
oh my. :scared:
Dortoh
09-01-2009, 12:03 PM
You're so sensitive, McDortRod . . .
-----
Now that is a low blow :laugh:
This is all about me coining the phrase McSheep isnt it :)
I think Denver has always had some of the most passionate fans and there are both pros and cons to that.
You're a 6, could you please move it up to a 9.
TIA.
:D
Watchthemiddle
09-01-2009, 12:57 PM
Well hopefully those who give you a high 5 for this and read it get it. THose who don't, well we will just have to see how they treat other fans.
I'm not to much of a message board diva to admit I get carried away towards my fellow bronco fan from time to time, but I can also man up and say I am wrong.
Those who can't have problems IMO
TXBRONC
09-01-2009, 01:03 PM
Hopefully everyone who reads it not only gets it but reflects on it.
claymore
09-01-2009, 02:05 PM
Well hopefully those who give you a high 5 for this and read it get it. THose who don't, well we will just have to see how they treat other fans.
I'm not to much of a message board diva to admit I get carried away towards my fellow bronco fan from time to time, but I can also man up and say I am wrong.
Those who can't have problems IMO
I love you WTM.
Civility and class. That's a lot to ask of some people.
But, in reality it isn't that hard.
A Broncos Nation Divided
As Jay Cutler marched the Bears on a 98 yard scoring drive, the game day
thread on BroncosForums.com was spiraling out of control. The fans of
cutler cursing new coach Josh McDaniels. The fans that have washed their
hands of Cutler, cursing the announcers that went on and on about how a
team never trades a franchise Quarterback -- about the gift that fell in Lovie
Smith's lap. The fans of Mike Shanahan cursing Pat Bowlen, because they
felt that Mr. Bowlen pulled the trigger too soon on firing Shanahan. All in all,
a divided forum -- a divided Broncos nation.
With each penalty, with each injury, the divide widened, the tempers flared
more. A nation in turmoil, fan against fan, a virtual civil war ripping apart
the Broncos nation.
BroncosForums wasn't alone. Similar meltdowns were occurring on message
boards and blogs across the internet, not to mention bars and living rooms
across the Rocky Mountains. How did such a great fan base fall into such
disarray? How could so many fans watch the same events unfold over the
offseason, over the last five or ten years, yet see those events in such
different ways?
The beginning of the end for Mike Shanahan started just under nine months
ago, when the Broncos held a three game lead with three games left in the
season. Surely, the Broncos two year playoff drought would end -- all that
was needed was one win in the final three games. Then the unthinkable
happens, not only do the Broncos lose in weeks 15 and 16, but the chargers
win in those same weeks, and then the lead is down to one game. Still,
there is hope, beat San Diego and the AFC West title returns to Denver.
When the game was over, the Broncos not only lost, but were blown out in
a way Denver fans had not seen in years. The Broncos defense surrendered
more points than any Broncos team in nearly 20 years. The Chargers
finished with a team record 289 rushing yards, and their offense fell only a
few yards short of 500 yards.
It was an end to the season that few had envisioned. The Broncos became
the first team in over forty years to blow a three game lead with three
games to play.
Still, there was hope. Even with seven Broncos running backs finishing the
season on injured reserve, the Broncos offense finished second in the league
in total offense and third in passing offense.
As bad as the season ended, hope for the new season already started to
emerge. The feeling that with the fire power of Cutler, Marshall, Royal,
Clady and the rest of the offense, all that was needed was to shore up the
defense -- just put an average, middle of the pack defense on the field to
give the offense a chance to win.
Little did Broncos fans know that the historic three game implosion to end
the season would just be a ripple compared to the waves they would endure
this offseason.
A couple days after the season ended, Mike Shanahan was fired. After
leading the Broncos to two Super Bowls and having one of the best winning
percentages in the NFL over the previous 14 years, and even the ten years
since Elway retired, three straight losing seasons and blowing a three game
lead for the division title lead Pat Bowlen to believe it was time to make a
change.
As the shock wore off, Broncos fans again felt hope. With one of the top
offenses in football, surely Pat Bowlen would hire a defensive wizard to
come in and put a defense on the field to support the offense. Yes,
Shanahan's firing came as a shock to many, but then the thought of getting
a defensive head coach, once again brought hope to the Broncos faithful.
Then, in another surprising move, Mr. Bowlen hires Josh McDaniels, a young
offensive coordinator who was coming off a great three year run in New
England. When this new shock faded, the talk of bringing in Don Capers,
Mike Nolan or another proven defensive coordinator once again brought
some hope to the fans.
As if things couldn't get any worse, after news leaked that Josh McDaniels
was involved in trade talks to ship out Jay Cutler in exchange for Matt
Cassel, the one year starter that he had worked with for four years in New
England, Cutler asked to be traded. Surely the nightmare of the last four
months couldn't continue, there was no way that McDaniels and Cutler
wouldn't be able to sit down and work it out. Not this offseason, the word
'surely' had no place. Cutler was soon traded to the Chicago Bears for two
first round picks and Kyle Orton.
At almost the same time that Cutler was being traded, Brandon Marshall was
undergoing surgery on his hip, which he believed was misdiagnosed by the
Broncos medical staff the previous year. A couple months later, as he is
rehabbing from the surgery, his anger at the Broncos failure to renegotiate
his contract, combined with the hip diagnosis, lead him to walk out of the
Broncos offseason camp, and ultimately lead to Marshall's suspension for
disrupting practice and conduct detrimental to the team.
In nine short months, the Broncos went from a shoe in to win the AFC West,
to having a new head coach, Kyle Orton under center in place of Jay Cutler,
and Brandon Marshall, only the ninth player in NFL history to have
back-to-back 100 reception seasons, was suspended for conduct detrimental to
the team.
Could things get any worse?
That's what Broncos fans were thinking on Sunday night as they watched
Kyle Orton walk off the field holding up a bloody finger, knowing full well that
backup Chris Simms had been knocked out of commission the week before with a sprained
ankle. Moments later, Jay Cutler, the onetime franchise quarterback of the
Broncos, now wearing a Bears uniform, took the field on his own two
yard line. In five painful minutes, Cutler marched the Bears down the field,
with the final stake to the heart being a six yard pass to Matt Forte for a
touchdown. Yet, it was only preseason.
It was only preseason. These new Broncos, with the new quarterback and
the new coaching staff, and their new look 3-4 defense had yet to play a
regular season game. It was only preseason.
As the fans tore each other apart on the message boards and blogs, you
might have thought that it was actually January, 2010, with the Broncos
having missed the playoffs for a fourth straight year. Even the division of
the Jake Plummer years paled in comparison to what we saw as the
frustration of the past nine months came to a head as Chris Collinsworth
said, "teams just don't trade away franchise quarterbacks" as Cutler marched
the Bears down the field, reminding fans -- those that loved him and those
that hated him -- of what could have been.
Long into the night, after the game had ended, just a preseason game at
that, peace was not to be found among the fans. The fans of the same
team, fans of the great Denver Broncos were civil no more. Civility, a word
long forgotten, lost sometime between the Shanahan firing and the Marshall
suspension. For many, the word hope also had disappeared from their
vocabulary, lost sometime over these nine painful months.
The Broncos will become a winning franchise again. Maybe this year. Maybe
next year. Maybe three or four years from now. The Broncos will again rise
to the top of the NFL ranks. The only question is when it will happen.
However, that is not the only question that the Broncos nation faces. They
face another 'when'. When will the fans of one of the classiest franchises in
the NFL begin to once again treat each other with class, with respect?
How long before we see a time when Broncos fans can discuss the state of
the Broncos and even disagree while still treating each other with respect --
with civility.
Being one of the NFL's elite franchises, isn't just about wins and losses, it's
about how you talk about the game, how you treat your fellow fan. In this
area, the collapse of the Denver Broncos to end the 2008 season pales in
comparison to the collapse of the Broncos nation -- to the Denver fans
feeding on their own.
While the fans have no control over who is hired or fired. Have no control
over who is traded, drafted or suspended. Have no control over overthrown
balls, dropped passes or missed tackles. They do have control over one
thing.
How they treat their fellow fan.
While BroncosForums has been much better than some of the other forums, and things are better here than a few months ago, I think reading and taking to heart the last four paragraphs of this little essay would be good for most of us.
Some people forget that it is both possible and ok to have a point of view that varies from other fans, and to express that opinion WITHOUT attacking or attempting to belittle those that disagree.
We are all fans, and we all have opinions. How about we embrace what we have in common (our love of the Broncos) and accept that some opinions are different than our own.
horsepig
11-08-2009, 03:27 AM
nice sugar and spice sentiments tned, but lets let reality into this scenario. It is nev3r going to be: well everything makes everyone happy. dream on.
Wins make most happy. Losses make almost all po'd, me included.
nice sugar and spice sentiments tned, but lets let reality into this scenario. It is nev3r going to be: well everything makes everyone happy. dream on.
Wins make most happy. Losses make almost all po'd, me included.
It's not about everyone being happy. It should be possible for everyone to be unhappy, but still treat each other with respect -- to not be asses.
Denver Native (Carol)
11-08-2009, 08:37 AM
It's not about everyone being happy. It should be possible for everyone to be unhappy, but still treat each other with respect -- to not be asses.
Respect is as easy to convey in a post, as not - i.e.
A response to someone's post -
"I really do not agree with what you have posted because------"
versus
"This is the stupidest thing I have ever read, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about - you must have the mentality of a 2 year old - etc., etc., etc"
broncophan
11-08-2009, 08:41 AM
Respect is as easy to convey in a post, as not - i.e.
A response to someone's post -
"I really do not agree with what you have posted because------"
versus
"This is the stupidest thing I have ever read, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about - you must have the mentality of a 2 year old - etc., etc., etc"
Great post Carol......I am going to wake my wife up and have her read this and maybe she will start talking to me nicer ....:D
Nomad
11-08-2009, 08:59 AM
It's easy to talk tough and be an ass when you don't have to confront the person face to face, alot of know-it-alls around here who like to hear themselves talk!!
MasterShake
11-08-2009, 09:35 AM
It's easy to talk tough and be an ass when you don't have to confront the person face to face, alot of know-it-alls around here who like to hear themselves talk!!
You got a problem, PUNK?!!
Lonestar
11-08-2009, 10:35 AM
While sugar and spice is nice.
First and foremost, this is a message board. To allow folks to state their views.
If we were not passionate about our team then message boards would not have a place or exist.
While I really dislike the blatant hate that has been displayed here, where else can it be. In the streets with marches up to and including riots.
IMHO being able to voice an Opinion in cyber space is a great way to vent.
For some old toimers like myslef that do not live "in country" so to speak it is a God send to be able to get up to the minute news.
I have differing views than most on here about what is/was wrong with my TEAM.
While many do not agree with them they are still as valid as any others. Even though I bring 50+ years of watching my donkeys. And many on here know the game only because of John or beacuse they were weened on madden.
Who is correct. TIME will tell.
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.
gobroncsnv
11-08-2009, 10:42 AM
Great post Carol......I am going to wake my wife up and have her read this and maybe she will start talking to me nicer ....:D
She's going to expect you to change, because she's going to think it's talking about YOU!!! C'mon man, learn where the bread gets buttered! :cool:
Denver Native (Carol)
11-08-2009, 12:52 PM
While sugar and spice is nice.
First and foremost, this is a message board. To allow folks to state their views.
If we were not passionate about our team then message boards would not have a place or exist.
While I really dislike the blatant hate that has been displayed here, where else can it be. In the streets with marches up to and including riots.
IMHO being able to voice an Opinion in cyber space is a great way to vent.
For some old toimers like myslef that do not live "in country" so to speak it is a God send to be able to get up to the minute news.
I have differing views than most on here about what is/was wrong with my TEAM.
While many do not agree with them they are still as valid as any others. Even though I bring 50+ years of watching my donkeys. And many on here know the game only because of John or beacuse they were weened on madden.
Who is correct. TIME will tell.
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.
Of course everyone on here has the right to state their views, even if it means stating that they feel that someone else's view is wrong, and explaining why they feel that way, based on facts, personal experience, etc.; however, there is a right way to do this, and that is not thru a personal attack. When someone directs a personal attack towards someone, it all reality, it does not make the person who is being attacked look like a jerk - it makes the person giving the personal attack to look like the jerk. Any one has the right to disagree with a view in which they do not share the same conclusion, but do it the right way - that's all.
Northman
11-08-2009, 01:00 PM
As they say, it all starts at the top. When i see changes there i'll start worrying about myself.
TXBRONC
11-08-2009, 01:06 PM
Of course everyone on here has the right to state their views, even if it means stating that they feel that someone else's view is wrong, and explaining why they feel that way, based on facts, personal experience, etc.; however, there is a right way to do this, and that is not thru a personal attack. When someone directs a personal attack towards someone, it all reality, it does not make the person who is being attacked look like a jerk - it makes the person giving the personal attack to look like the jerk. Any one has the right to disagree with a view in which they do not share the same conclusion, but do it the right way - that's all.
I agree and I might add that just because a person holds a particular view of a coach, a player or the team doesn't mean they have to interject that into view into every conversation especialy when nothing to actually do with the subject at hand.
While sugar and spice is nice.
First and foremost, this is a message board. To allow folks to state their views.
If we were not passionate about our team then message boards would not have a place or exist.
While I really dislike the blatant hate that has been displayed here, where else can it be. In the streets with marches up to and including riots.
IMHO being able to voice an Opinion in cyber space is a great way to vent.
For some old toimers like myslef that do not live "in country" so to speak it is a God send to be able to get up to the minute news.
I have differing views than most on here about what is/was wrong with my TEAM.
While many do not agree with them they are still as valid as any others. Even though I bring 50+ years of watching my donkeys. And many on here know the game only because of John or beacuse they were weened on madden.
Who is correct. TIME will tell.
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.
Please see Carol's post #62 above, as she explained very simply the point of this thread.
TXBRONC
11-08-2009, 07:22 PM
Please see Carol's post #62 above, as she explained very simply the point of this thread.
Some people just don't get it. :sad:
topscribe
11-08-2009, 08:38 PM
Some people just don't get it. :sad:
And others only think they do . . .
-----
Respect is as easy to convey in a post, as not - i.e.
A response to someone's post -
"I really do not agree with what you have posted because------"
versus
"This is the stupidest thing I have ever read, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about - you must have the mentality of a 2 year old - etc., etc., etc"
As this was an excellent post, I think it bears quoting and bumping.
frauschieze
11-09-2009, 12:50 AM
As they say, it all starts at the top. When i see changes there i'll start worrying about myself.
Using someone else's behavior to excuse your own is rather childish, IMO.
DenBronx
11-09-2009, 02:09 AM
what in the hell is the deal with all of the ostriches?
Northman
11-09-2009, 07:04 AM
Using someone else's behavior to excuse your own is rather childish, IMO.
I disagree. All im doing is showing that everyone does it even those running the board. Im a firm believer in practice what you preach. If your going to point fingers about how people need to act than you need to set the example. All i ever heard when i was a mod was how i needed to set the example. Well, set the example and thus the flock will follow. :salute:
*No pun intended with the Ostirich's*
what in the hell is the deal with all of the ostriches?
Yeah...what's the deal? They are funny and all but is there an underlying thing here? :confused:
TXBRONC
11-09-2009, 08:04 AM
Using someone else's behavior to excuse your own is rather childish, IMO.
Well said. :salute:
frauschieze
11-09-2009, 10:00 AM
I disagree. All im doing is showing that everyone does it even those running the board. Im a firm believer in practice what you preach. If your going to point fingers about how people need to act than you need to set the example. All i ever heard when i was a mod was how i needed to set the example. Well, set the example and thus the flock will follow. :salute:
*No pun intended with the Ostirich's*
I understand that you are saying "Practice what you preach" but what excuse do you really have for a lack of civility?
When people say they are not going to do something until someone else does, they remind me of my daughter when she was much younger. She'd whack someone upside the head when they had a toy she wanted and they wouldn't give it to her. Another kid at her daycare did the same thing. When she got in trouble for it, she'd complain that he did it too. But just because he did it, didn't make it right for her to do so too.
If you don't think that we're trying, then you are sadly mistaken. If you don't think we've spent time chewing out our own and talking extensively about holding ourselves to a higher standard, you're missing the point. We ARE trying, every one of us. But we're not perfect and never will be. If you expect that out of us, then feel free to move on.
pnbronco
11-09-2009, 11:08 AM
what in the hell is the deal with all of the ostriches?
I was thinking the same thing....:laugh:
Tough, though off season, actually the last year was just rough. Being so close to the playoffs and then it all falling apart created some serious bruises. Many things were said in frustration. The bottom line is that all of us that come here in a regular basis do so because we love the Broncos.
So I can't control what player does what or the Coaches or the front office. I can control how I treat my fellow fan. There will be times when we look at the same thing and because of our personal history come up with a different conclusions 180 degrees apart from each other. When that happens I will try to remember the term 'I respectfully disagree with you for these reasons".
Northman
11-09-2009, 12:04 PM
But we're not perfect and never will be. If you expect that out of us, then feel free to move on.
Talk about missing the point. Bottom line, if you cant do it yourself dont expect perfection from the rest of us. End of story.
Dortoh
11-09-2009, 12:11 PM
what in the hell is the deal with all of the ostriches?
Get on board the ostrich train son.
Dortoh
11-09-2009, 12:12 PM
Talk about missing the point. Bottom line, if you cant do it yourself dont expect perfection from the rest of us. End of story.
FWIW this ostrich is one of the funniest yet
frauschieze
11-09-2009, 12:15 PM
Talk about missing the point. Bottom line, if you cant do it yourself dont expect perfection from the rest of us. End of story.
Doesn't this:
As they say, it all starts at the top. When i see changes there i'll start worrying about myself.
mean that you're not going to concern yourself with trying? Or am I misunderstanding? Because it seems pretty clear to me that you believe you shouldn't have to be civil to other posters because you perceive at least one person out of the mods/admin is not perfectly civil all the time.
No one is expecting perfection. But do we really have to be so damn mean to each other all the time? Is there ANY excuse for treating a fellow Broncos fan like a piece of shit because you have different opinions? Answer me that, Anubis.
claymore
11-09-2009, 12:17 PM
Doesn't this:
mean that you're not going to concern yourself with trying? Or am I misunderstanding? Because it seems pretty clear to me that you believe you shouldn't have to be civil to other posters because you perceive at least one person out of the mods/admin is not perfectly civil all the time.
No one is expecting perfection. But do we really have to be so damn mean to each other all the time? Is there ANY excuse for treating a fellow Broncos fan like a piece of shit because you have different opinions? Answer me that, Anubis.
Hell Yeah.
Dortoh
11-09-2009, 12:18 PM
This thread needs more puppys
pnbronco
11-09-2009, 12:19 PM
Get on board the ostrich train son.
Where does this train go?
Dortoh
11-09-2009, 12:20 PM
Where does this train go?
The Broncos vs Saints superbowl.
pnbronco
11-09-2009, 12:25 PM
The Broncos vs Saints superbowl.
I can live with that, but I have to keep Snoopy and enjoy the power of the ostrich and it's train...:D
Medford Bronco
11-09-2009, 01:03 PM
I can live with that, but I have to keep Snoopy and enjoy the power of the ostrich and it's train...:D
Can Snoopy get med a job:laugh: and the Canes some wins
along with the Bronco Championshiop.
yes thread derailed :lol:
Denver Native (Carol)
11-09-2009, 01:07 PM
To me, this is so simple - whether it be Tned, mods, or members
EVERYONE NEEDS TO TREAT ALL POSTING ON HERE WITH RESPECT
How hard can that be to grasp, and moreso DO???????
Medford Bronco
11-09-2009, 01:11 PM
To me, this is so simple - whether it be Tned, mods, or members
EVERYONE NEEDS TO TREAT ALL POSTING ON HERE WITH RESPECT
How hard can that be to grasp, and moreso DO???????
you men use common sense, whats that:lol::lol:
ps- you are correct btw:beer:
Northman
11-09-2009, 02:12 PM
Or am I misunderstanding?
As i said, went over your head. I explained it with this post.
I disagree. All im doing is showing that everyone does it even those running the board. Im a firm believer in practice what you preach. If your going to point fingers about how people need to act than you need to set the example. All i ever heard when i was a mod was how i needed to set the example. Well, set the example and thus the flock will follow.
But do we really have to be so damn mean to each other all the time? Is there ANY excuse for treating a fellow Broncos fan like a piece of shit because you have different opinions? Answer me that, Anubis.
For starters, i havent seen anyone being treated like shit for having different opinions. If there's been this massive flux of people being treated like shit please show me cause im curious. There are disagreements but nothing over the top from what ive seen. A minority of posters who are drawing the ire for behavior i see as them bringing on themselves but that does not constitute as being treated like shit. Ive seen far worse behavior in the Politics and Religion forum than i have ever seen in the football forum itself. But again, considering the source of this thread and some others posted by the staff i felt it needed to be said of the hypocrisy im seeing first hand when it comes to how people treat each other on here.
Ive never once claimed myself to be perfect, nor have said that i expect perfection. In fact, i dont expect things to change because on forums its just human nature and thats how emotions run on these boards. But for some to sit on their pedestals and pretend they arent part of the problem does bother me. Whether or not you guys are discussing this behind the scenes means nothing to me. I dont see those posts and i can only comment on what i see out in the open and thus i speak my mind on it.
I really dont think its much to ask that the staff and owner adhere to same expectations that they trying to force on members themselves and that is what i was merely pointing out as i dont think ive gone over the line at all in that regard. I simply made the statement because i shouldnt as a member be held to a certain standard when none of the staff are holding themselves to that standard. Again, as a mod or owner you want people to start treating each better than show with an example and not feed the problem that your trying to fix.
Dortoh
11-09-2009, 02:29 PM
This is kind of funny to me. Nobody here is getting disrespected this place is G rated for christ sake.
Northman
11-09-2009, 02:31 PM
This is kind of funny to me. Nobody here is getting disrespected this place is G rated for christ sake.
Must be since we spent so much time over at the Mane that this place is like disneyland. :lol:
Traveler
11-09-2009, 02:33 PM
:amen:
Dortoh
11-09-2009, 02:46 PM
Must be since we spent so much time over at the Mane that this place is like disneyland. :lol:
I throw up in my mouth just a little every time I have to start a post off "I respect your opinon but............." Ugh shoot me.
Ok I maybe I'm exaggerating just a little but hey thats what I do :)
pnbronco
11-09-2009, 03:12 PM
I throw up in my mouth just a little every time I have to start a post off "I respect your opinon but............." Ugh shoot me.
Ok I maybe I'm exaggerating just a little but hey thats what I do :)
:lol:...:lol: Thanks I'll keep that in mind, so now you have told me how to get to you, or am I just being my normal nice self...(you'll never really know...:throwrock:, couldn't find a shoot one)
claymore
11-09-2009, 03:19 PM
This is kind of funny to me. Nobody here is getting disrespected this place is G rated for christ sake.
Must be since we spent so much time over at the Mane that this place is like disneyland. :lol:
:amen:
I throw up in my mouth just a little every time I have to start a post off "I respect your opinon but............." Ugh shoot me.
Ok I maybe I'm exaggerating just a little but hey thats what I do :)
Oh You Maners........ :laugh:
I had no idea what this thread was about so I decided to read it...after doing so...I'm kind of glad I am a Chiefs fan :couch:
:lol:
TXBRONC
11-09-2009, 04:13 PM
I had no idea what this thread was about so I decided to read it...after doing so...I'm kind of glad I am a Chiefs fan :couch:
:lol:
I would think that fans of every team have issues.
I would think that fans of every team issues.
what?
Northman
11-09-2009, 04:16 PM
I had no idea what this thread was about so I decided to read it...after doing so...I'm kind of glad I am a Chiefs fan :couch:
:lol:
When your team flat out sucks there really isnt much to gripe about that hasnt already been said honestly.
When your team flat out sucks there really isnt much to gripe about that hasnt already been said honestly.
There's still plenty to bitch about....and I do my fair share of it...but on this board I can bitch about the Chiefs and everyone agrees with me...:lol:
When your team flat out sucks there really isnt much to gripe about that hasnt already been said honestly.
Plus in this thread...you all aren't bitching about the team...you're bitching about one another...well some of you are!
Northman
11-09-2009, 04:24 PM
Plus in this thread...you all aren't bitching about the team...you're bitching about one another...well some of you are!
Im an equal opportunity bitcher. No one is safe. :lol:
Im an equal opportunity bitcher. No one is safe. :lol:
It doesn't bother me none...:laugh:
TXBRONC
11-09-2009, 04:52 PM
what?
Originally Posted by TXBRONC
I would think that fans of every team have issues.
Fixed it. Sorry about that.
Fixed it. Sorry about that.
The Chiefs fans....what? Noooooooooooooooooooooooo...:lol:
TXBRONC
11-09-2009, 04:55 PM
The Chiefs fans....what? Noooooooooooooooooooooooo...:lol:
Urrrrrhg. :D
frauschieze
11-09-2009, 06:30 PM
As i said, went over your head. I explained it with this post.
For starters, i havent seen anyone being treated like shit for having different opinions. If there's been this massive flux of people being treated like shit please show me cause im curious. There are disagreements but nothing over the top from what ive seen. A minority of posters who are drawing the ire for behavior i see as them bringing on themselves but that does not constitute as being treated like shit. Ive seen far worse behavior in the Politics and Religion forum than i have ever seen in the football forum itself. But again, considering the source of this thread and some others posted by the staff i felt it needed to be said of the hypocrisy im seeing first hand when it comes to how people treat each other on here.
Ive never once claimed myself to be perfect, nor have said that i expect perfection. In fact, i dont expect things to change because on forums its just human nature and thats how emotions run on these boards. But for some to sit on their pedestals and pretend they arent part of the problem does bother me. Whether or not you guys are discussing this behind the scenes means nothing to me. I dont see those posts and i can only comment on what i see out in the open and thus i speak my mind on it.
I really dont think its much to ask that the staff and owner adhere to same expectations that they trying to force on members themselves and that is what i was merely pointing out as i dont think ive gone over the line at all in that regard. I simply made the statement because i shouldnt as a member be held to a certain standard when none of the staff are holding themselves to that standard. Again, as a mod or owner you want people to start treating each better than show with an example and not feed the problem that your trying to fix.
Obviously we have much different perceptions, likely stemming from the fact that you're from the Mane. I do not believe either of us have anything to gain from further conversations on the subject.
But I do want to say one thing: I find it personally HIGHLY insulting for you to say that "none of the staff are holding themselves" to the civility requested in this thread. I would request that you reconsider and perhaps reevaluate your perceptions, because I'd really like to see where Mike, Davii, Dread, Den21, Turf or NTL have behaved in a way contrary. The fact that you can criticize their behavior devalues your reality to me and makes it very difficult to take your complaints seriously.
Frau...what about GEM? Has she been up to no good again? :lol:
and shake also...well he is kind of a pain...:lol:
Dortoh
11-09-2009, 06:55 PM
I hate seeing 2 of my favorite posters fight.
I hate seeing 2 of my favorite posters fight.
Well if Overtime would post like he has some sense...you would see us
getting along...:lol:
MOtorboat
11-09-2009, 07:27 PM
I hate all of you.
Deal with it.
:coffee:
I hate all of you.
Deal with it.
:coffee:
:lie:
:blah:
A Broncos Nation Divided
...
The Broncos will become a winning franchise again. Maybe this year. Maybe
next year. Maybe three or four years from now. The Broncos will again rise
to the top of the NFL ranks. The only question is when it will happen.
However, that is not the only question that the Broncos nation faces. They
face another 'when'. When will the fans of one of the classiest franchises in
the NFL begin to once again treat each other with class, with respect?
How long before we see a time when Broncos fans can discuss the state of
the Broncos and even disagree while still treating each other with respect --
with civility.
Being one of the NFL's elite franchises, isn't just about wins and losses, it's
about how you talk about the game, how you treat your fellow fan. In this
area, the collapse of the Denver Broncos to end the 2008 season pales in
comparison to the collapse of the Broncos nation -- to the Denver fans
feeding on their own.
While the fans have no control over who is hired or fired. Have no control
over who is traded, drafted or suspended. Have no control over overthrown
balls, dropped passes or missed tackles. They do have control over one
thing.
How they treat their fellow fan.
I think these closing paragraphs from my little essay last year deserve a bump. The ONE thing us Broncos fans have control over is how we treat our fellow fans.
Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2010, 06:08 PM
I think these closing paragraphs from my little essay last year deserve a bump. The ONE thing us Broncos fans have control over is how we treat our fellow fans.
Absolutely correct that is the ONE thing we all have control over - and if we all go along for the ride, realizing that there is nothing any of us can do in regards to who coaches, who plays, who is traded/cut,etc., there should be no reason to treat our fellow fans in a way we should not.
topscribe
07-05-2010, 06:28 PM
Absolutely correct that is the ONE thing we all have control over - and if we all go along for the ride, realizing that there is nothing any of us can do in regards to who coaches, who plays, who is traded/cut,etc., there should be no reason to treat our fellow fans in a way we should not.
I reserve the right to slap Claymore around like a red-headed stepchild . . .
-----
GGMoogly
07-05-2010, 06:52 PM
There is no such thing as a "bad" fan (just morons who cheer for other teams) ;)
Dreadnought
07-05-2010, 07:24 PM
I reserve the right to slap Claymore around like a red-headed stepchild . . .
-----
Thats different, Top, and we all understand that. He still remains a Bronco fan
TXBRONC
07-05-2010, 07:33 PM
Good will goes along way when pejoratives are not used.
horsepig
07-05-2010, 09:25 PM
The fans are OK, it's the incessant personal bickering towards the end of a lot of threads that drive me to a headache.
MHR has very few of these little personal he-said-she-said spats going on.
Denver Native (Carol)
07-05-2010, 09:45 PM
The fans are OK, it's the incessant personal bickering towards the end of a lot of threads that drive me to a headache.
MHR has very few of these little personal he-said-she-said spats going on.
Totally agree - not long after a thread has been started, you have no clue what the original post was about, as the posts turn into attacking other people's posts.
WARHORSE
07-05-2010, 09:55 PM
When we traded Cutler..........THAT was a truly DARK time on Broncos message boards.
Im glad we've put some time between then and now.
BRONCOS all the way, every day.....the end.
:salute:
T.K.O.
07-06-2010, 10:44 AM
time for a....GROUP HUG !
:grouphug:
Lonestar
07-06-2010, 12:53 PM
When we traded Cutler..........THAT was a truly DARK time on Broncos message boards.
Im glad we've put some time between then and now.
BRONCOS all the way, every day.....the end.
:salute:
actually for a lot of us that knew he was a loser, it was a great day, especially since we got a fist full of draft choices for him, after hearing from all the naysayers that Pat blew it by saying he was going to be traded.
I have always thought he was the next jeff george enormous talent and ego to boot. He was going to do what he thought best Forcing balls into coverage with other players not so far down field wide open and really never fixed his mechanics he had in college.
Glad he is someone else's albatross.
T.K.O.
07-06-2010, 12:57 PM
War said "a dark day for broncos messege boards" not a dark day for the team;)
claymore
07-06-2010, 12:57 PM
actually for a lot of us that knew he was a loser, it was a great day, especially since we got a fist full of draft choices for him, after hearing from all the naysayers that Pat blew it by saying he was going to be traded.
I have always thought he was the next jeff george enormous talent and ego to boot. He was going to do what he thought best Forcing balls into coverage with other players not so far down field wide open and really never fixed his mechanics he had in college.
Glad he is someone else's albatross.
You cant NOT try and start shit can you?
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 01:12 PM
You cant NOT try and start shit can you?
It's a clear example of why we're divided. The refusal to show just a little bit class evades some people.
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:12 PM
actually for a lot of us that knew he was a loser, it was a great day, especially since we got a fist full of draft choices for him, after hearing from all the naysayers that Pat blew it by saying he was going to be traded.
I have always thought he was the next jeff george enormous talent and ego to boot. He was going to do what he thought best Forcing balls into coverage with other players not so far down field wide open and really never fixed his mechanics he had in college.
Glad he is someone else's albatross.
Actually, I think what War was referring to was how the event spawned
conflicts on the Broncos boards, how it had mutual Broncos fans at each
other's throats for a while. Whether one approved or disapproved of the
Cutler trade, that was a dark day in this sense.
You cant NOT try and start shit can you?
Well, I don't believe JR's comment would really bother anybody except for the
big Cutler fans.
It's a clear example of why we're divided. The refusal to show just a little bit class evades some people.
Maybe the differences in the definition of "class" also has something to do
with it?
-----
Lonestar
07-06-2010, 01:16 PM
Actually, I think what War was referring to was how the event spawned
conflicts on the Broncos boards, how it had mutual Broncos fans at each
other's throats for a while. Whether one approved or disapproved of the
Cutler trade, that was a dark day in this sense.
Well, I don't believe JR's comment would really bother anybody except for the
big Cutler fans.
Maybe the differences in the definition of "class" also has something to do
with it?
-----
I can dig it.
Northman
07-06-2010, 01:17 PM
Well, I don't believe JR's comment would really bother anybody except for the
big Cutler fans.
-----
As with those who get uptight about Orton. But, that wasnt what Clay was getting at. Its the constant trolling for the sake of trolling that derails threads and creates unecessary drama. I would assume once the trolling stops we can actually start to focus on the topics at hand and discuss things more civily which is what this thread was all about.
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 01:19 PM
As with those who get uptight about Orton. But, that wasnt what Clay was getting at. Its the constant trolling for the sake of trolling that derails threads and creates unecessary drama. I would assume once the trolling stops we can actually start to focus on the topics at hand and discuss things more civily which is what this thread was all about.
Spot on. :salute:
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:19 PM
As with those who get uptight about Orton. But, that wasnt what Clay was getting at. Its the constant trolling for the sake of trolling that derails threads and creates unecessary drama. I would assume once the trolling stops we can actually start to focus on the topics at hand and discuss things more civily which is what this thread was all about.
Well, that would also depend on one's concept of "trolling," I guess.
BTW, I was a Cutler fan and still am, and it didn't bother me.
So, moving right along . . .
-----
Northman
07-06-2010, 01:22 PM
Well, that would also depend on one's definition of "trolling," I guess.
BTW, I was a Cutler fan and still am, and it didn't bother me.
So, moving right along . . .
-----
Calling names, labeling people haters, baiting, all are a result of trolling.
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 01:24 PM
Calling names, labeling people haters, baiting, all are a result of trolling.
Exactly and when it happens in every thread even when the topic has nothing to do with trolling remarks it's wasteful.
I am having a salad for lunch.
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:27 PM
Calling names, labeling people haters, baiting, all are a result of trolling.
Okay, now that we have that down, I didn't see any of that in the post in
question, did you? Or maybe we still differ in our respective concepts of trolling?
-----
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 01:27 PM
I am having a salad for lunch.
What kind and are you on a diet?
What kind and are you on a diet?
Spinach salad.
And yes, I am on a diet.
Lonestar
07-06-2010, 01:29 PM
Calling names, labeling people haters, baiting, all are a result of trolling.
so the obvious choice is to put someone like this on IGGY , so you do not have to waste your time. I have 6-7 on Iggy because they re not worth mine time to read. and it is a shame because a couple of them have the head screwed on right in the political area
but since I spend most of my time in BT I find their posts not worth reading because of their biases.
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 01:30 PM
Spinach salad.
And yes, I am on a diet.
I love a fresh Spinach salad.
Best wishes to you on your diet. I'm on one as well.
Northman
07-06-2010, 01:31 PM
Okay, now that we have that down, I didn't see any of that in the post in
question, did you? Or maybe we still differ in our respective concepts of trolling?
-----
It was his attempt to derail the thread with his disapproval of Cutler. He can dislike Jay all he wants but it had nothing to do with this thread. As for his trolling, take peek around the board you will find plenty of it.
frauschieze
07-06-2010, 01:32 PM
This is NOT the intention of this thread.
Come on people. PLEASE.
The appropriate place to discuss these topics is Town Hall and the Food Forum. Please take those conversations there.
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:32 PM
It was his attempt to derail the thread with his disapproval of Cutler. He can dislike Jay all he wants but it had nothing to do with this thread. As for his trolling, take peek around the board you will find plenty of it.
Okay, my friend. We've both made our point. :)
:focus:
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T.K.O.
07-06-2010, 01:33 PM
Spinach salad.
And yes, I am on a diet.
i need to start a diet....but i love cheeseburgers and pizza
i need more willpower or i should be dropped by helicopter into a remote spinach forrest where i would have to eat my way to safety over the next several months;)
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:34 PM
This is NOT the intention of this thread.
Come on people. PLEASE.
The appropriate place to discuss these topics is Town Hall and the Food Forum. Please take those conversations there.
Actually, I think Slim made a pretty good point there in what he was actually getting at.
But yours is well taken, too (actually probably the same one as his). :)
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Dreadnought
07-06-2010, 01:35 PM
This is NOT the intention of this thread.
Come on people. PLEASE.
The appropriate place to discuss these topics is Town Hall and the Food Forum. Please take those conversations there.
QFT. As is discussion of actual Broncos players past or present. Anyone wishing to discuss past or present QB's, for example, is cordially invited to use the handy "Search" function to see if there are any threads already discussing the matter. I'm betting there already are, on a wild guess.
You're less likely to find a salad thread, but by all means go to the food forum and go on with your bad self.
Northman
07-06-2010, 01:36 PM
QFT. As is discussion of actual Broncos players past or present. Anyone wishing to discuss past or present QB's, for example, is cordially invited to use the handy "Search" function to see if there are any threads already discussing the matter. I'm betting there already are, on a wild guess.
You're less likely to find a salad thread, but by all means go to the food forum and go on with your bad self.
Exactly. :salute:
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 01:37 PM
This is NOT the intention of this thread.
Come on people. PLEASE.
The appropriate place to discuss these topics is Town Hall and the Food Forum. Please take those conversations there.
I understand, but I think the food comments weren't meant to hurt the thread but to move it away from the direction it was headed.
This is NOT the intention of this thread.
Come on people. PLEASE.
The appropriate place to discuss these topics is Town Hall and the Food Forum. Please take those conversations there.
Exactly, but it does illustrate why I bumped it. ;)
We are this TINY community, us Broncos fans. Even smaller when you look at the online fan communities.
It is beyond me why we can't discuss things while still showing each other respect.
I understand, but I think the food comments weren't meant to hurt the thread but to move it away from the direction it was headed.
It was devolving pretty quickly.
As clay likes to say, we all need a common enemy. I think salad can be that enemy.
claymore
07-06-2010, 01:42 PM
It was devolving pretty quickly.
As clay likes to say, we all need a common enemy. I think salad can be that enemy.
Or mooslims. Eff Nasa.
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:43 PM
Exactly, but it does illustrate why I bumped it. ;)
We are this TINY community, us Broncos fans. Even smaller when you look at the online fan communities.
It is beyond me why we can't discuss things while still showing each other respect.
There is a way to disagree on an issue in the interest of intelligent discussion.
And then there is a way to disagree in a way that cuts the other poster down.
Not that I haven't been guilty of the latter, but the former is the one that
contributes toward a productive board . . .
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There is a way to disagree on an issue in the interest of intelligent discussion.
And then there is a way to disagree in a way that cuts the other poster down.
Not that I haven't been guilty of the latter, but the former is the one that
contributes toward a productive board . . .
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We've all been guilty of the latter at times, but the key is for each of us to strive for the former each and every time we click "submit reply".
Great post!
frauschieze
07-06-2010, 01:45 PM
It was devolving pretty quickly.
As clay likes to say, we all need a common enemy. I think salad can be that enemy.
But what if that salad is a spinach salad with blue cheese dressing, bacon crumbles, mushrooms and freshly grated parmesan cheese on it? I can't be enemies with that salad.
Hug it out, bitches.
So, yea....totally inappropriate, but worth a laugh! :D
But what if that salad is a spinach salad with blue cheese dressing, bacon crumbles, mushrooms and freshly grated parmesan cheese on it? I can't be enemies with that salad.
I can't stand Cheese....
claymore
07-06-2010, 01:46 PM
But what if that salad is a spinach salad with blue cheese dressing, bacon crumbles, mushrooms and freshly grated parmesan cheese on it? I can't be enemies with that salad.
Thats just puttin lipstick on a pig. A sexy ass pig...
Dreadnought
07-06-2010, 01:46 PM
It was devolving pretty quickly.
As clay likes to say, we all need a common enemy. I think salad can be that enemy.
Slim, you inspired me to start a "Slim's diet secrets" thread. Please weigh in. Then I can go back to focusing on whaling the tar out of all the damned Steve Ramsey nuthuggers around here.
No, Ramsey has crap arm strength, and those big thick birth control glasses he played in killed his Leadership credibiliy. I will still be respectful of those who remain pissed that we brought in Craig Morton and killed his career.
http://www.geocities.jp/jbeeez2001/ramseyden.jpg
Exactly, but it does illustrate why I bumped it. ;)
We are this TINY community, us Broncos fans. Even smaller when you look at the online fan communities.
It is beyond me why we can't discuss things while still showing each other respect.
:sad:
I know I am not wanted here!!!
by some people.
oh sorry Tned...off topic.
But what if that salad is a spinach salad with blue cheese dressing, bacon crumbles, mushrooms and freshly grated parmesan cheese on it? I can't be enemies with that salad.
Mmmmmmm that sounds delicious!
frauschieze
07-06-2010, 01:47 PM
I can't stand Cheese....
Some cultures are defined by their relationship with cheese.
:eviltongue:
GGMoogly
07-06-2010, 01:48 PM
Exactly, but it does illustrate why I bumped it. ;)
We are this TINY community, us Broncos fans. Even smaller when you look at the online fan communities.
It is beyond me why we can't discuss things while still showing each other respect.
It seems to me all this forum needs is five threads: Shanahan sucks, McDaniels sucks, Cutler sucks, Orton sucks, and Everything else. It's becoming quite tedious :bored:
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:49 PM
:sad:
I know I am not wanted here!!!
by some people.
oh sorry Tned...off topic.
There's no reason you should be unwelcome.
All we have to do is to look in your closet . . . :heh:
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Some cultures are defined by their relationship with cheese.
:eviltongue:
Which is why even here, I am shunned and pushed to the outskirts of the community. :sad: :mad: :sad:
:sad:
I know I am not wanted here!!!
by some people.
oh sorry Tned...off topic.
Come on, we all know you are a closet Broncos fan. Come on, come out of the closet!!
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:50 PM
It seems to me all this forum needs is five threads: Shanahan sucks, McDaniels sucks, Cutler sucks, Orton sucks, and Everything else. It's becoming quite tedious :bored:
Well . . . they do . . . :whoknows:
So does my new vacuum cleaner, BTW . . .
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TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 01:50 PM
It was devolving pretty quickly.
As clay likes to say, we all need a common enemy. I think salad can be that enemy.
Salad will always get you in the end.
It seems to me all this forum needs is five threads: Shanahan sucks, McDaniels sucks, Cutler sucks, Orton sucks, and Everything else. It's becoming quite tedious :bored:
Well, I want no part of those first four, so maybe we can create four stickies with those titles plus "hatred spewage" in the title, and then get agreement that that bull shit gets left ONLY in those four threads, not all the other threads that are created.
claymore
07-06-2010, 01:51 PM
Big heaping piles of ding dong.
Mmmmmmm that sounds delicious!
Wow.... Just Wow...
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:53 PM
Thoroughly hijacked by three mods and Admin.
This thread should now be framed and hung on the wall . . .
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claymore
07-06-2010, 01:55 PM
Thoroughly hijacked by three mods and Admin.
This thread should now be framed and hung on the wall . . .
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Post reported.
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 01:56 PM
:sad:
I know I am not wanted here!!!
by some people.
oh sorry Tned...off topic.
:hug:
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:56 PM
Post reported.
Eat my shorts, douchebag.
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Dreadnought
07-06-2010, 01:56 PM
Well, I want no part of those first four, so maybe we can create four stickies with those titles plus "hatred spewage" in the title, and then get agreement that that bull shit gets left ONLY in those four threads, not all the other threads that are created.
That is already doable T. Seems to me if you start a "Jay Cutler fans are sniveling assclowns" thread in Smack and it will be much more likely left alone. Ditto McDaniels, Jake Plummer, Kyle Orton, or Steve Ramsey. Just don't go trying to involve that line into every legitimate discussion going on elsewhere
Thoroughly hijacked by three mods and Admin.
This thread should now be framed and hung on the wall . . .
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Yes, we managed to hijack the hijacked thread... ;)
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 01:57 PM
Some cultures are defined by their relationship with cheese.
:eviltongue:
Is that the same culture that wears foam rubber hats in the shape of wedge of Swiss cheese?
topscribe
07-06-2010, 01:58 PM
Yes, we managed to hijack the hijacked thread... ;)
Yes, this has turned out to be a pie-throwing contest, hasn't it? :laugh:
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Yes, this has turned out to be a pie-throwing contest, hasn't it? :laugh:
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uh huh huh huh...he said pie! :D
That is already doable T. Seems to me if you start a "Jay Cutler fans are sniveling assclowns" thread in Smack and it will be much more likely left alone. Ditto McDaniels, Jake Plummer, Kyle Orton, or Steve Ramsey. Just don't go trying to involve that line into every legitimate discussion going on elsewhere
That's the problem. If you create a place to bash current or former players/coaches, it will go ignored. The people that want to do it, or claim any criticism of current/former players/coaches, is PURELY based on hate, not simply disagreeing with something.
I've said it before, and I will say it again, just because I'm a tenacious SOB that likes to repeat himself.
How ******* boring would this message board be if we ALL agreed 100% on every topic? If we all were talking about how great McDaniels game planning was... If we all were talking about how overrated Dumervil was... If we all were talking about how Tebow will be the next ____..... If we all were talking about how great Orton is, but how he just never got a real shot....
You add your own, but this place would be REALLY boring, REALLY fast, because after one or two posts in a thread, all that would be left is hi-fives and "great post" or "I totally agree" type comments.
Having different viewpoints is what MAKES for good discussion and debate. There is no reason that having different viewpoints means that people have to be uncivil to each other.
Now would be a good time to go back to page one and tell me how nice an essay I wrote last year.... ;)
GGMoogly
07-06-2010, 02:02 PM
Yes, this has turned out to be a pie-throwing contest, hasn't it? :laugh:
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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LwwANv89JRA/Rro286giNiI/AAAAAAAAAII/DDW-X2x6_j4/s320/pie+throwing+keaton.jpg
That's the problem. If you create a place to bash current or former players/coaches, it will go ignored. The people that want to do it, or claim any criticism of current/former players/coaches, is PURELY based on hate, not simply disagreeing with something.
I've said it before, and I will say it again, just because I'm a tenacious SOB that likes to repeat himself.
How ******* boring would this message board be if we ALL agreed 100% on every topic? If we all were talking about how great McDaniels game planning was... If we all were talking about how overrated Dumervil was... If we all were talking about how Tebow will be the next ____..... If we all were talking about how great Orton is, but how he just never got a real shot....
You add your own, but this place would be REALLY boring, REALLY fast, because after one or two posts in a thread, all that would be left is hi-fives and "great post" or "I totally agree" type comments.
Having different viewpoints is what MAKES for good discussion and debate. There is no reason that having different viewpoints means that people have to be uncivil to each other.
Look ADMIN....I don't want any of your in-tell-i-gence bs in this here thread. We're talking pie and salads. Now add to the current topic or ****.
Look ADMIN....I don't want any of your in-tell-i-gence bs in this here thread. We're talking pie and salads. Now add to the current topic or ****.
I ain't no fan of pie, and salad gives me the runs! Now, talk about a good 'ole Sabrett hot dog or Knish and I am right there.
topscribe
07-06-2010, 02:05 PM
That's the problem. If you create a place to bash current or former players/coaches, it will go ignored. The people that want to do it, or claim any criticism of current/former players/coaches, is PURELY based on hate, not simply disagreeing with something.
I've said it before, and I will say it again, just because I'm a tenacious SOB that likes to repeat himself.
How ******* boring would this message board be if we ALL agreed 100% on every topic? If we all were talking about how great McDaniels game planning was... If we all were talking about how overrated Dumervil was... If we all were talking about how Tebow will be the next ____..... If we all were talking about how great Orton is, but how he just never got a real shot....
You add your own, but this place would be REALLY boring, REALLY fast, because after one or two posts in a thread, all that would be left is hi-fives and "great post" or "I totally agree" type comments.
Having different viewpoints is what MAKES for good discussion and debate. There is no reason that having different viewpoints means that people have to be uncivil to each other.
Don't get me started on Orton . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thannoyed.gif
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TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 02:05 PM
That's the problem. If you create a place to bash current or former players/coaches, it will go ignored. The people that want to do it, or claim any criticism of current/former players/coaches, is PURELY based on hate, not simply disagreeing with something.
I've said it before, and I will say it again, just because I'm a tenacious SOB that likes to repeat himself.
How ******* boring would this message board be if we ALL agreed 100% on every topic? If we all were talking about how great McDaniels game planning was... If we all were talking about how overrated Dumervil was... If we all were talking about how Tebow will be the next ____..... If we all were talking about how great Orton is, but how he just never got a real shot....
You add your own, but this place would be REALLY boring, REALLY fast, because after one or two posts in a thread, all that would be left is hi-fives and "great post" or "I totally agree" type comments.
Having different viewpoints is what MAKES for good discussion and debate. There is no reason that having different viewpoints means that people have to be uncivil to each other.
Great post! I totally agree with everything you said! :five:
GGMoogly
07-06-2010, 02:06 PM
I ain't no fan of pie, and salad gives me the runs! Now, talk about a good 'ole Sabrett hot dog or Knish and I am right there.
Knish. Mmmmmm............
claymore
07-06-2010, 02:07 PM
That is already doable T. Seems to me if you start a "Jay Cutler fans are sniveling assclowns" thread in Smack and it will be much more likely left alone. Ditto McDaniels, Jake Plummer, Kyle Orton, or Steve Ramsey. Just don't go trying to involve that line into every legitimate discussion going on elsewhere
In all fairness I would post in the Jake Plummer sucls thread. :scared:
Knish. Mmmmmm............
Yea, there's a knish vendor on every corner in Arkansas. NOT!!!
frauschieze
07-06-2010, 02:08 PM
Is that the same culture that wears foam rubber hats in the shape of wedge of Swiss cheese?
The "culture" inhabiting Lambeau Field is CERTAINLY defined by their relationship with cheese. :D
Dreadnought
07-06-2010, 02:08 PM
That's the problem. If you create a place to bash current or former players/coaches, it will go ignored. The people that want to do it, or claim any criticism of current/former players/coaches, is PURELY based on hate, not simply disagreeing with something.
I've said it before, and I will say it again, just because I'm a tenacious SOB that likes to repeat himself.
How ******* boring would this message board be if we ALL agreed 100% on every topic? If we all were talking about how great McDaniels game planning was... If we all were talking about how overrated Dumervil was... If we all were talking about how Tebow will be the next ____..... If we all were talking about how great Orton is, but how he just never got a real shot....
You add your own, but this place would be REALLY boring, REALLY fast, because after one or two posts in a thread, all that would be left is hi-fives and "great post" or "I totally agree" type comments.
Having different viewpoints is what MAKES for good discussion and debate. There is no reason that having different viewpoints means that people have to be uncivil to each other.
I am in total agreement. I was just making the point that for those who want to rant over particular players there is already a spot where we call a very wide strike zone. I've used it myself to belabor Philip Rivers and Raider fans. Some folks like it, others not so much. Point is, that kind of Smack talk is different from honest, well written, well reasoned argument - and we allow it, we're fine with it, so long as it is in Smack, where it belongs.
T.K.O.
07-06-2010, 02:09 PM
Now would be a good time to go back to page one and tell me how nice an essay I wrote last year.... ;)
i started reading it when you first posted it................................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................
i'm almost done;)
I am in total agreement. I was just making the point that for those who want to rant over particular players there is already a spot where we call a very wide strike zone. I've used it myself to belabor Philip Rivers and Raider fans. Some folks like it, others not so much. Point is, that kind of Smack talk is different from honest, well written, well reasoned argument - and we allow it, we're fine with it, so long as it is in Smack, where it belongs.
We could create a "moved to smack" thread, and move any flame/bait/smack that finds it's way into BT on over to smack. :lol:
i started reading it when you first posted it................................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................
i'm almost done;)
Hey, that was one of my shortest essays.... :pout:
topscribe
07-06-2010, 02:10 PM
i started reading it when you first posted it................................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................
i'm almost done;)
I began it about the same time I started reading War and Peace.
I've finished War and Peace . . .
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T.K.O.
07-06-2010, 02:13 PM
"whatcha guy's talkin about over here ?"
http://doughlicious.com/images/mmm-that-donut-is-doughlicious.jpg
topscribe
07-06-2010, 02:15 PM
You actually let Slim see that, TKO?
And he was doing so well . . . :tsk:
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TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 02:16 PM
The "culture" inhabiting Lambeau Field is CERTAINLY defined by their relationship with cheese. :D
True and they are also a constipated lot. :lol:
Northman
07-06-2010, 02:19 PM
Hey, that was one of my shortest essays.... :pout:
You got nothing on Footsteps. :lol:
GGMoogly
07-06-2010, 02:19 PM
True and they are also a constipated lot. :lol:
Hey!...Tap your brakes, hot rod. I grew up in Wisconsin. I eat cheese, I'm regular, and I VOTE!
T.K.O.
07-06-2010, 02:21 PM
Hey!...Tap your brakes, hot rod. I grew up in Wisconsin. I eat cheese, I'm regular, and I VOTE!
you may eat cheese and vote but there is NOTHING regular about you my friend !:laugh:
T.K.O.
07-06-2010, 02:24 PM
i think we can all agree on this...................
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/askville/9733632_10229913_mywrite/donuts.jpg
Northman
07-06-2010, 02:24 PM
I found what i want to eat.
http://interracialscentral.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/missy-peregrym-bikini.jpg
T.K.O.
07-06-2010, 02:25 PM
I found what i want to eat.
http://interracialscentral.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/missy-peregrym-bikini.jpg
i'll trade you 2..........3 of my donuts for 1 of those:D
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 02:30 PM
Hey!...Tap your brakes, hot rod. I grew up in Wisconsin. I eat cheese, I'm regular, and I VOTE!
Regular? Nah you're irregular. :D
I am also glad you're a good model of civic responsibility for young people. :usa2:
rcsodak
07-06-2010, 10:29 PM
I think the division in the fan base got worse after having to watch Cutler and the Bears perform well and Orton and the Broncos not so well. Top that off with the injuries and you get some disgruntled fans.
:confused:
:confused:
Look at the date of her post and my original post she refers to and you won't be so confused.
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 10:37 PM
:confused:
That post is almost a year old and now you decide to comment on it? :confused:
That post is almost a year old and now you decide to comment on it? :confused:
This thread is almost a year old...who the hell fired it back up? :lol:
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 10:42 PM
This thread is almost a year old...who the hell fired it back up? :lol:
Tned.
Tned.
figures....:rolleyes:
;)
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 10:52 PM
figures....:rolleyes:
;)
He's very proud of his diatribe I mean essay. :D
Seriously though I think Tned digging this one out of moth balls wasn't a bad idea.
He's very proud of his diatribe I mean essay. :D
Seriously though I think Tned digging this one out of moth balls wasn't a bad idea.
I'm just messing around...I don't have any business in this thread anyhow.
TXBRONC
07-06-2010, 11:14 PM
I'm just messing around...I don't have any business in this thread anyhow.
Sure you do. :hug:
rcsodak
07-06-2010, 11:24 PM
Look at the date of her post and my original post she refers to and you won't be so confused.
Why would the date have any bearing on her post making any more sense?
She stated how Cutler/Bears were doing great, vs Orton/Broncos sucking.
When did that happen? Because there was only 1 season for the possibility. And last I recall, Denver/Orton outplayed Cutler/Chicago last year.
I believe my :confused: was well-timed, and on target.
Plus, Carol agreed with me, so :woot: :rockon: :whoo:
pnbronco
07-06-2010, 11:24 PM
uh huh huh huh...he said pie! :D
Meeeeem pie, we do have some of that this year, right Gem?
Oh did I get off topic, that never happens here.....:rolleyes:
Why would the date have any bearing on her post making any more sense?
She stated how Cutler/Bears were doing great, vs Orton/Broncos sucking.
When did that happen? Because there was only 1 season for the possibility. And last I recall, Denver/Orton outplayed Cutler/Chicago last year.
I believe my :confused: was well-timed, and on target.
Plus, Carol agreed with me, so :woot: :rockon: :whoo:
Can you follow instructions? If you are still confused, which apparently you are, look at the date of her post, and read the OP in this thread, and then maybe you won't be so confused. Carol's MHS has no relevance to your not understanding BG7's post.
Can you follow instructions? If you are still confused, which apparently you are, look at the date of her post, and read the OP in this thread, and then maybe you won't be so confused. Carol's MHS has no relevance to your not understanding BG7's post.
Maybe she was talking about the preseason game?...:confused:
:lol:
Maybe she was talking about the preseason game?...:confused:
:lol:
Yea, anyone that read even part of the first post, or looked at the date of her post, and wasn't just trying to stir shit up, would know she was talking about the preseason game.
Yea, anyone that read even part of the first post, or looked at the date of her post, and wasn't just trying to stir shit up, would know she was talking about the preseason game.
rc.... :doh:
:lol:
Lonestar
07-06-2010, 11:43 PM
Yes let's demonize rc for speaking facts. That makes sense. true
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums
Yes let's demonize rc for speaking facts. That makes sense. true
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums
How was it a fact? BG7 commented on the Bears/Broncos preseason game, which was what I wrote about, which was just one more catalyst for fans to act like total dicks to each other.
None of what RC typed was 'fact' as it relates to BG7's post. I know your defending your friend unconditionally, and that is admirable, but this WHOLE thread is about how we are a group of fans for the same team and need to stop the petty attacks on each other and baiting. Learn to discuss and debate like civil adults, rather than petulant kids.
Why would the date have any bearing on her post making any more sense?
She stated how Cutler/Bears were doing great, vs Orton/Broncos sucking.
When did that happen? Because there was only 1 season for the possibility. And last I recall, Denver/Orton outplayed Cutler/Chicago last year.
I believe my :confused: was well-timed, and on target.
Plus, Carol agreed with me, so :woot: :rockon: :whoo:
The key is to read...
A Broncos Nation Divided
As Jay Cutler marched the Bears on a 98 yard scoring drive, the game day
thread on BroncosForums.com was spiraling out of control. The fans of
cutler cursing new coach Josh McDaniels. The fans that have washed their
hands of Cutler, cursing the announcers that went on and on about how a
team never trades a franchise Quarterback -- about the gift that fell in Lovie
Smith's lap. The fans of Mike Shanahan cursing Pat Bowlen, because they
felt that Mr. Bowlen pulled the trigger too soon on firing Shanahan. All in all,
a divided forum -- a divided Broncos nation.
With each penalty, with each injury, the divide widened, the tempers flared
more. A nation in turmoil, fan against fan, a virtual civil war ripping apart
the Broncos nation.
BroncosForums wasn't alone. Similar meltdowns were occurring on message
boards and blogs across the internet, not to mention bars and living rooms
across the Rocky Mountains. How did such a great fan base fall into such
disarray? How could so many fans watch the same events unfold over the
offseason, over the last five or ten years, yet see those events in such
different ways?
Clearly, she was referring to the preseason game.
I think the division in the fan base got worse after having to watch Cutler and the Bears perform well and Orton and the Broncos not so well. Top that off with the injuries and you get some disgruntled fans.
Hopefully, that cleared it up.
Yes let's demonize rc for speaking facts. That makes sense. true
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums
I wasn't doing any such thing to rc...I just don't think he understood that she was talking about the preseason game and I was just kidding around when I pointed it out...he was confused...:lol:
EDIT-Funny thing is JR... rc posted the same day she did just a couple of post after hers... LMAO...Not making fun,it's just funny.
pnbronco
07-07-2010, 12:05 AM
So you really don't like cheese Tned.......I love it myself......
OK I'm being a brat, I've had a crappy day.
I know that the ONLY thing I can control is how I treat all of you on this board. I will continue to try to be respectful on how I act. There are those of you that have beliefs that 180 degrees from mine (Clay) but I still care about you.
I am grateful that there is a place where I can share my love for this team with others from all over.
I'm also so grateful for all the kindness I received while going through my horrible, horrible Spring. So I want this place to thrive. I think most of the posters want the same thing.
I love that there are so many posters that seem to get the scoops first and share them. When I want to find out what's going on with my favorite team I come here first.
I just do not have the time or energy to read the same fight over and over again, so I've stayed away more than not for awhile now. In all those posts no one has changed my mind in how I feel about any of the players or coaches.
I do look forward to camp this year and the start of a new season. I'm looking forward to seeing a few players up close and personal too....:drool:
TXBRONC
07-07-2010, 12:06 AM
I wasn't doing any such thing to rc...I just don't think he understood that she was talking about the preseason game and I was just kidding around when I pointed it out...he was confused...:lol:
I know you're joking around but honestly I think RC knew exactly what he was doing.
I know you're joking around but honestly I think RC knew exactly what he was doing.
see my edit...you quoted before I was finished.
TXBRONC
07-07-2010, 12:08 AM
see my edit...you quoted before I was finished.
Got it. :salute:
I know you're joking around but honestly I think RC knew exactly what he was doing.
Actually I wasn't joking around.
So you really don't like cheese Tned.......I love it myself......
Truth is, I love Cheese, but Cheese don't love me... :sad:
Lonestar
07-07-2010, 08:54 AM
I wasn't doing any such thing to rc...I just don't think he understood that she was talking about the preseason game and I was just kidding around when I pointed it out...he was confused...:lol:
EDIT-Funny thing is JR... rc posted the same day she did just a couple of post after hers... LMAO...Not making fun,it's just funny.
RC calls it like he sees it and therefore gets demonized because of it. It is a point of view that I generally share and well......
I was not pointing a finger specially at THE Gal in KC. There are many others taking shots at him.
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RC calls it like he sees it and therefore gets demonized because of it. It is a point of view that I generally share and well......
I was not pointing a finger specially at THE Gal in KC. There are many others taking shots at him.
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Jr, you know this isn't true. In general, or in this case.
He knew very well this was a thread about how fans treat each other. The original post was about the blowup after the preseason game against the Bears. BG7 (who he has issues with from P&R) in the FOURTH post of this thread, commented on that preseason game and that post was August 31st.
It was pointed out to him that he should look at the date of her post and the original post in this thread, and he said it was irrelevant, which is ludicrous, and went on to make his "point" to prove she was wrong.
Why? How could the date not be relevant? Of course it was, but admitting that would mean there was no good reason to take a little dig in Broncos Talk at someone he disagrees with politically.
I commend you for defending your friend through thick and thin, but the fact is that YOU are demonizing others for calling a spade a spade (as you often say).
He took a shot at someone in a thread about not taking shots at people.
Lonestar
07-07-2010, 09:23 AM
Well that put us both in our places.
Just how many threads in any forum stay true to the original intent.
For the most part ZERO unless there is only one person posting in it.
I glad that Y'all are mind readers and KNOW for certain that he comments were ONLY because they clash in P&R.
Could have been because she and many others were wrong and consistently are wrong by riding jays jock from day one.
Yes I said it again but that is because even now he is haled by some as the better QB that we have had since John retired. And to even try to say he had a better year last year than Orton did is well blindsided love at its best.
So is the bronco nation dividd absolutelt and I'll bet that there would have been the same thing when danny left as well as when mikey came to town.
So get over the shock that not everyone sees the vision of the new guy or thise that still pine for mikey.
As you always say. It would be boring as hell here, if we all agreed on everything.
Rc calls it as he sees it most of the time bringing facts to the forefront that many did not see or WANT to see. For that I :salute: him.
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GGMoogly
07-07-2010, 09:26 AM
Truth is, I love Cheese, but Cheese don't love me... :sad:
Cheese makes everything better...except Tebow. Tebow makes cheese better! :D
OMG....
a ******* train wreck.
Can't look away, but bejeeeezus.
Well that put us both in our places.
Just how many threads in any forum stay true to the original intent.
For the most part ZERO unless there is only one person posting in it.
I glad that Y'all are mind readers and KNOW for certain that he comments were ONLY because they clash in P&R.
Could have been because she and many others were wrong and consistently are wrong by riding jays jock from day one.
Yes I said it again but that is because even now he is haled by some as the better QB that we have had since John retired. And to even try to say he had a better year last year than Orton did is well blindsided love at its best.
So is the bronco nation dividd absolutelt and I'll bet that there would have been the same thing when danny left as well as when mikey came to town.
So get over the shock that not everyone sees the vision of the new guy or thise that still pine for mikey.
As you always say. It would be boring as hell here, if we all agreed on everything.
Rc calls it as he sees it most of the time bringing facts to the forefront that many did not see or WANT to see. For that I :salute: him.
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Jr, you are entitled to your opinion of Jay, Jay's nuts, mikey or whatever. As is RC. However, that has NOTHING to do with what happened here.
RC posted his little confused :confused: smiley to bump BG7's post. I explained he should look at the date of her post and the original post in this thread. He refused, and instead decide to take it as an opportunity to turn it into a Jay & Jay supporter bashing thread.
If he made an honest mistake, and didn't realize her post was referring to the preseason game against Chicago, he should have just said that or "ooops" or something, rather than going off about how the date of the post doesn't matter.
How can it NOT matter, based on RC's next response?
As to my shock. I am not shocked everyone doesn't see's "the vision of the new guy or thise that still pine for mikey" as you say. I am dissapointed that certain posters choose to be caustic and rude (some even proudly claim it in the user titles) to fellow fans.
There is no reason people can't hold vastly different opinions without treating each other like shit. Do you not agree?
Let's try this again. From my mini-essay at the end of pre-season last year.
A Broncos Nation Divided
...
As the fans tore each other apart on the message boards and blogs, you
might have thought that it was actually January, 2010, with the Broncos
having missed the playoffs for a fourth straight year. Even the division of
the Jake Plummer years paled in comparison to what we saw as the
frustration of the past nine months came to a head as Chris Collinsworth
said, "teams just don't trade away franchise quarterbacks" as Cutler marched
the Bears down the field, reminding fans -- those that loved him and those
that hated him -- of what could have been.
Long into the night, after the game had ended, just a preseason game at
that, peace was not to be found among the fans. The fans of the same
team, fans of the great Denver Broncos were civil no more. Civility, a word
long forgotten, lost sometime between the Shanahan firing and the Marshall
suspension. For many, the word hope also had disappeared from their
vocabulary, lost sometime over these nine painful months.
The Broncos will become a winning franchise again. Maybe this year. Maybe
next year. Maybe three or four years from now. The Broncos will again rise
to the top of the NFL ranks. The only question is when it will happen.
However, that is not the only question that the Broncos nation faces. They
face another 'when'. When will the fans of one of the classiest franchises in
the NFL begin to once again treat each other with class, with respect?
How long before we see a time when Broncos fans can discuss the state of
the Broncos and even disagree while still treating each other with respect --
with civility.
Being one of the NFL's elite franchises, isn't just about wins and losses, it's
about how you talk about the game, how you treat your fellow fan. In this
area, the collapse of the Denver Broncos to end the 2008 season pales in
comparison to the collapse of the Broncos nation -- to the Denver fans
feeding on their own.
While the fans have no control over who is hired or fired. Have no control
over who is traded, drafted or suspended. Have no control over overthrown
balls, dropped passes or missed tackles. They do have control over one
thing.
How they treat their fellow fan.
The point of what I posted was not about coaches or players or whether decisions made were good or bad, it's about the fact that through all of that, THE ONLY THING US FANS CAN CONTROL IS.......
How we treat our fellow fans.
Each of use needs to ask ourselves:
Do I want to be known as an ass hole, scumbag who treats others like shit if they disagree with me?
Or
Do I want to be known as someone who has strong opinions and will not shy from sharing them, BUT I treat those with differing opinions with respect and civility?
Northman
07-07-2010, 09:47 AM
OMG....
a ******* train wreck.
Can't look away, but bejeeeezus.
Indeed, pretty pathetic. :lol:
Lonestar
07-07-2010, 09:49 AM
Let's try this again. From my mini-essay at the end of pre-season last year.
The point of what I posted was not about coaches or players or whether decisions made were good or bad, it's about the fact that through all of that, THE ONLY THING US FANS CAN CONTROL IS.......
How we treat our fellow fans.
Each of use needs to ask ourselves:
Do I want to be known as an ass hole, scumbag who treats others like shit if they disagree with me?
Or
Do I want to be known as someone who has strong opinions and will not shy from sharing them, BUT I treat those with differing opinions with respect and civility?
Guess it still takes TWO to tango.
Maybe in a prefect world it does not but then like you always say it would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything.
Again it takes two to tango.
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T.K.O.
07-07-2010, 09:59 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xKTRJt8uuqQ/R53SYQBkeyI/AAAAAAAAAAY/M0daL_ubBr0/S760/foto+tango+carina+y+jorge6.jpg
How does it take 2 to tango when BG7 posted it right after the preseason game and that was the context it was posted in? Then when it is pointed out...we're told that the context doesn't matter. That isn't 2 to tango, that's just being ignorant.
claymore
07-07-2010, 10:06 AM
Let's try this again. From my mini-essay at the end of pre-season last year.
The point of what I posted was not about coaches or players or whether decisions made were good or bad, it's about the fact that through all of that, THE ONLY THING US FANS CAN CONTROL IS.......
How we treat our fellow fans.
Each of use needs to ask ourselves:
Do I want to be known as an ass hole, scumbag who treats others like shit if they disagree with me?
Or
Do I want to be known as someone who has strong opinions and will not shy from sharing them, BUT I treat those with differing opinions with respect and civility?
Eff U Tned!!!!!
Eff U Tned!!!!!
Concerning Your Post
To: Claymore
From: GEM
Damn it Clay...wtf do you not understand about not cursing out the admin. You can't do that with cuss words in General Discussion. Spell the ******* word out and let the ******* filter catch it. If you can't figure it out, go spend more time with your socks.
TIA,
GEM
PS: Trailer park glitter carries infections.
claymore
07-07-2010, 10:21 AM
Concerning Your Post
To: Claymore
From: GEM
Damn it Clay...wtf do you not understand about not cursing out the admin. You can't do that with cuss words in General Discussion. Spell the ******* word out and let the ******* filter catch it. If you can't figure it out, go spend more time with your socks.
TIA,
GEM
PS: Trailer park glitter carries infections.
I honestly misspelled ****. I think my spelling record speakls for itself. :D
topscribe
07-07-2010, 10:30 AM
I honestly misspelled ****. I think my spelling record speakls for itself. :D
How could you misspell that? Asterisks are asterisks. :noidea:
-----
T.K.O.
07-07-2010, 10:32 AM
i'm pretty sure it actually does take "two to tango"....otherwise the one doing the tango would just look like some crazy mother running around:confused:
now in the spirit of the thread , i would like each poster to say something nice about the person or post above their own.....ready go !
TXBRONC
07-07-2010, 10:35 AM
i'm pretty sure it actually does take "two to tango"....otherwise the one doing the tango would just look like some crazy mother running around:confused:
now in the spirit of the thread , i would like each poster to say something nice about the person or post above their own.....ready go !
You don't sweat much for a fat guy. How's that? :D (J/K)
frauschieze
07-07-2010, 10:53 AM
Cheese makes everything better...except Tebow. Tebow makes cheese better! :D
The first part goes without saying. The second....how can Tebow improve upon perfection?
:heh:
Truth is, I love Cheese, but Cheese don't love me... :sad:
Awww....you know I love you, T. :hug:
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