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Lonestar
11-20-2007, 03:24 PM
3-7-TEN 48 (5:26) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass deep right to 14-B.Stokley for 48 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 0 DEN 7 Plays: 6 Possession: 3:13

4-2-TEN 28 (3:52) 15-C.Hentrich punts 52 yards to DEN 20, Center-40-J.Cain. 17-G.Martinez for 80 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

1-10-TEN 48 (12:14) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete deep left to 14-B.Stokley (31-C.Finnegan). PENALTY on TEN-31-C.Finnegan, Defensive Pass Interference, 37 yards, enforced at TEN 48 - No Play.
1-10-TEN 11 (12:07) 35-S.Young right end to TEN 9 for 2 yards (53-K.Bulluck; 33-M.Griffin).
2-8-TEN 9 (11:40) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 88-T.Scheffler pushed ob at TEN 2 for 7 yards (21-R.Hill).
3-1-TEN 2 (11:04) 35-S.Young up the middle to TEN 3 for -1 yards (94-B.Fisher).
4-2-TEN 3 (10:29) 1-J.Elam 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 7 DEN 17 Plays: 6 Possession: 2:50

3-9-TEN 21 (2:00) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 17-G.Martinez.
4-9-TEN 21 (1:56) 1-J.Elam 39 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 7 DEN 20 Plays: 10 Possession: 4:00

3-6-TEN 41 (11:12) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass deep right to 15-B.Marshall for 41 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 10 DEN 27 Plays: 9 Possession: 3:58


This is going to comeback and haunt this team..

NameUsedBefore
11-20-2007, 03:27 PM
Um, is that only 1 redzone trip? Otherwise it's not like we had a lot of chances in the red zone considering we were scoring from everywhere else on the field...

SBboundBRONCOS
11-20-2007, 03:40 PM
every team kicks field goals, you just can not score a TD everytime, its is impossible, of course you are the patriots but thats a different story

we needed the big plays and finally we are starting to get them. red zone will stay around avg, but we were really lacking big plays. its the only way you can rank in the middle of the pack in red zone and almost last in Points Scored

omac
11-20-2007, 04:07 PM
Check out the plays that start the goal to go (or almost goal to go) situations:


1-10-TEN 11 (12:07) 35-S.Young right end to TEN 9 for 2 yards (53-K.Bulluck; 33-M.Griffin).
2-8-TEN 9 (11:40) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 88-T.Scheffler pushed ob at TEN 2 for 7 yards (21-R.Hill).
3-1-TEN 2 (11:04) 35-S.Young up the middle to TEN 3 for -1 yards (94-B.Fisher).
4-2-TEN 3 (10:29) 1-J.Elam 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.

Those seemed like pretty good, high percentage plays; because they're so close to the goal line, the passing angles become much more difficult, with a lot of passes forced into being dangerously horizontal. 2 yards for a 1st down and 3 more shots at the endzone, a rush seems like the right call. Unfortunately, the Titans were pretty good at stuffing the run. Only the pass was very successful, so maybe we should just pass more, even with the more difficult angles.


1-10-TEN 22 (2:52) 35-S.Young right tackle to TEN 20 for 2 yards (93-K.Vanden Bosch).
2-8-TEN 20 (2:16) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 37-C.Sapp to TEN 21 for -1 yards (50-D.Thornton).
Two-Minute Warning
3-9-TEN 21 (2:00) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 17-G.Martinez.
4-9-TEN 21 (1:56) 1-J.Elam 39 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.

In this one, we started just outside of the red zone. Again, it was the running plays (the dumpoff (or was it a screen?) being like a running play) that failed to produce the proper yardage.

It could be argued that we should've passed even when this close to the endzone; there could definitely be much more TD success, but there could also be much more turnovers too. Also Denver will continue to work the running game, despite some lack of success, and those sometimes produce very good results.

Technically, we were only in the redzone once, but no matter, even just twice. Our scores came from big plays, and that's a good thing.

Would you want to pass more in the red zone and take more turnovers if it means having more TDs instead of FGs? Some say yes, some say no.

(added) Also, got to remember that a horizontal pass picked off in these areas would have the Broncos unprepared to defend the ensuing TD run. That would be a 10 or 14 point swing, instead of at least 3 points for Denver. That's a high risk.

MasterShake
11-20-2007, 04:18 PM
3-7-TEN 48 (5:26) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass deep right to 14-B.Stokley for 48 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 0 DEN 7 Plays: 6 Possession: 3:13

4-2-TEN 28 (3:52) 15-C.Hentrich punts 52 yards to DEN 20, Center-40-J.Cain. 17-G.Martinez for 80 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

1-10-TEN 48 (12:14) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete deep left to 14-B.Stokley (31-C.Finnegan). PENALTY on TEN-31-C.Finnegan, Defensive Pass Interference, 37 yards, enforced at TEN 48 - No Play.
1-10-TEN 11 (12:07) 35-S.Young right end to TEN 9 for 2 yards (53-K.Bulluck; 33-M.Griffin).
2-8-TEN 9 (11:40) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 88-T.Scheffler pushed ob at TEN 2 for 7 yards (21-R.Hill).
3-1-TEN 2 (11:04) 35-S.Young up the middle to TEN 3 for -1 yards (94-B.Fisher).
4-2-TEN 3 (10:29) 1-J.Elam 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 7 DEN 17 Plays: 6 Possession: 2:50

3-9-TEN 21 (2:00) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 17-G.Martinez.
4-9-TEN 21 (1:56) 1-J.Elam 39 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 7 DEN 20 Plays: 10 Possession: 4:00

3-6-TEN 41 (11:12) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass deep right to 15-B.Marshall for 41 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 10 DEN 27 Plays: 9 Possession: 3:58


This is going to comeback and haunt this team..

Ohhh... I get it. We were bad in the red zone because we were never really there. It's a joke! Who needs the red zone when you have TD's coming from 20+ yds. Do I win??;)

Lonestar
11-20-2007, 04:30 PM
Ohhh... I get it. We were bad in the red zone because we were never really there. It's a joke! Who needs the red zone when you have TD's coming from 20+ yds. Do I win??;)


Sooner or later the big plays from afar are not going to happen.

How many times is Stokely gonna make that kind of move and get free.

It took four years to get another PR for a TD, when do you suppose the next one will be?

While Marshall has the strength to make a couple of those plays a year can we afford to live off of those.

So far this year we have not scored much now the last two games we have and Y'all believe that the dry spell is done. Is it the law of averages? or just lucky against a pretty good team without its best defensive player..

You have to be consistent and so far this year we have not been. Inside the 20 down right pitiful.

This is going to comeback and haunt this team.. If it is not fixed..

underrated29
11-20-2007, 05:06 PM
Sooner or later the big plays from afar are not going to happen.



While Marshall has the strength to make a couple of those plays a year can we afford to live off of those.



yo, jr. Those big plays from afar just started happening.

And marshall has the strenght to make those plays every time this year.

I'm with ya, we cant live off of them, but we got to live off of something, right?

I still think the redzone will come around, especially as our schedule gets easier, and dare i say we get healthier?

As previously stated we just need more playing time together, and i think, not sure, and i dont have the time to check but....

I Think statistically speaking JAY CUTLER IS NO LONGER A ROOKIE! I think he has now played/started in 16 games. So that in itself could be huge (not really sure how? but huge.)

Lonestar
11-20-2007, 05:16 PM
yo, jr. Those big plays from afar just started happening.

And marshall has the strenght to make those plays every time this year.

I'm with ya, we cant live off of them, but we got to live off of something, right?

I still think the redzone will come around, especially as our schedule gets easier, and dare i say we get healthier?

As previously stated we just need more playing time together, and i think, not sure, and i dont have the time to check but....

I Think statistically speaking JAY CUTLER IS NO LONGER A ROOKIE! I think he has now played/started in 16 games. So that in itself could be huge (not really sure how? but huge.)

The healing will not take place till the offseason. But the playing time together will make for better off season decisions on who is good and who needs to be upgraded.

Partially correct now Jay is not arookie any longer his next few games just might be sophomore slump.












JK. He looks damned good better than I could have hoped for.

TXBRONC
11-20-2007, 07:08 PM
3-7-TEN 48 (5:26) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass deep right to 14-B.Stokley for 48 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 0 DEN 7 Plays: 6 Possession: 3:13

4-2-TEN 28 (3:52) 15-C.Hentrich punts 52 yards to DEN 20, Center-40-J.Cain. 17-G.Martinez for 80 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

1-10-TEN 48 (12:14) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete deep left to 14-B.Stokley (31-C.Finnegan). PENALTY on TEN-31-C.Finnegan, Defensive Pass Interference, 37 yards, enforced at TEN 48 - No Play.
1-10-TEN 11 (12:07) 35-S.Young right end to TEN 9 for 2 yards (53-K.Bulluck; 33-M.Griffin).
2-8-TEN 9 (11:40) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 88-T.Scheffler pushed ob at TEN 2 for 7 yards (21-R.Hill).
3-1-TEN 2 (11:04) 35-S.Young up the middle to TEN 3 for -1 yards (94-B.Fisher).
4-2-TEN 3 (10:29) 1-J.Elam 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 7 DEN 17 Plays: 6 Possession: 2:50

3-9-TEN 21 (2:00) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 17-G.Martinez.
4-9-TEN 21 (1:56) 1-J.Elam 39 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 7 DEN 20 Plays: 10 Possession: 4:00

3-6-TEN 41 (11:12) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass deep right to 15-B.Marshall for 41 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
TEN 10 DEN 27 Plays: 9 Possession: 3:58


This is going to comeback and haunt this team..

Are you saying the team has no red zone touchdowns for the year? If you are your dead wrong. We do have red zone touch downs.

So what we didn't score a touchdown in the red zone last night. The offense scored most of their possessions and that's what they are suppose to do.

Watchthemiddle
11-20-2007, 07:14 PM
I think a better or different approach JR would be...we better keep returning punts, and 40 yard TD passes and runs or else we aren't going to score.

We all know that once inside the 20 we stall.

Keep up the BIG plays offense..its the only way we can consistently score.

TXBRONC
11-20-2007, 07:22 PM
I think a better or different approach JR would be...we better keep returning punts, and 40 yard TD passes and runs or else we aren't going to score.

We all know that once inside the 20 we stall.

Keep up the BIG plays offense..its the only way we can consistently score.


We had problems yes but it's very inaccurate that all ever do is stall inside the 20. The offense has scored touchdowns in the red zone. Last week in K.C. we scored 14 points in the red zone.

Broncos Mtnman
11-20-2007, 07:36 PM
You mean all of our touchdowns came from outside the redzone?

ALL THREE OF THEM?

Slackers....

/sarcasm

Come on, JR. We only had ONE trip to the redzone all night. I wasn't happy with the playcalling on that ONE trip, but come on....

We had THREE scores of 40+ yards (you left out the 60+ yard TD run by Hall).

And your title of "still no TDs" is a little disingenuous. We have scored TDs in the Red Zone, just not as many as we all would like to see.

Anyway, I don't see how you can criticize the Red Zone play when we were only there one time.

Yesterday was a damn good showing by the offense. Probably the best of the season so far.

Broncos Mtnman
11-20-2007, 07:42 PM
I think a better or different approach JR would be...we better keep returning punts, and 40 yard TD passes and runs or else we aren't going to score.

We all know that once inside the 20 we stall.

Keep up the BIG plays offense..its the only way we can consistently score.

Why don't we just stop running once we make the 20 so we can work on the Red Zone?

Jay in the huddle...

"Hold up Stokley. I know you could run it all the way in, but we need to work on our Red Zone. Stop at the 20."
"OK Marshall, as soon as you break the tackle, step out of bounds at the 19. We still need to score from the Red Zone."

Shanny talking to Hall after his 61 yard TD run....

"Listen Rook. From now on, you stop inside the 20. We only win the game if we score TDs in the Red Zone. You should know better."

I can't believe that people are complaining about an offense that had THREE scoring plays of 40+ yards.

Some fans after the game....

"Well yeah, you had three TD scoring plays totalling nearly 150 yards. But what did you do with your ONE trip inside the Red Zone?"

Unbe-FREAKIN-lievable

Krugan
11-20-2007, 08:08 PM
I agree Mnt, its a lose lose for the Broncos this year.

For me, im getting excited about the next 3-5 years. I see what could become a very potent offense, with quick strike ability and "grind it out" potential.

I see an Oline slowing starting to come together and play very well considering the injuries and the relative lack of overall talent level.

I saw a improvement in the Defense, although the relative ease the Titans moved the ball in the late 3rd and 4th qrt, was a little unnerving.

Yes we should have been able to score from the 2, at least more than 3, but those other guys get paid as well. And we should be happy we ended up with 3, ask Adam V.

All in all, this team is starting to turn the corner, and the sky is the limit. The players that are injured, J Walker foremost, coming back will only improve what have started to create.

Be happy, we arent 0-10 with not a lot to look forward to, besides a #1 draft pick.

TXBRONC
11-20-2007, 08:37 PM
I agree Mnt, its a lose lose for the Broncos this year.

For me, im getting excited about the next 3-5 years. I see what could become a very potent offense, with quick strike ability and "grind it out" potential.

I see an Oline slowing starting to come together and play very well considering the injuries and the relative lack of overall talent level.

I saw a improvement in the Defense, although the relative ease the Titans moved the ball in the late 3rd and 4th qrt, was a little unnerving.

Yes we should have been able to score from the 2, at least more than 3, but those other guys get paid as well. And we should be happy we ended up with 3, ask Adam V.

All in all, this team is starting to turn the corner, and the sky is the limit. The players that are injured, J Walker foremost, coming back will only improve what have started to create.

Be happy, we arent 0-10 with not a lot to look forward to, besides a #1 draft pick.

Man you got that right.

jhns
11-20-2007, 08:38 PM
We can be bad in the red zone for the rest of the season if we score from 40+ all the time.

broncofanatic1987
11-20-2007, 09:03 PM
every team kicks field goals, you just can not score a TD everytime, its is impossible, of course you are the patriots but thats a different story

we needed the big plays and finally we are starting to get them. red zone will stay around avg, but we were really lacking big plays. its the only way you can rank in the middle of the pack in red zone and almost last in Points Scored

Actually, the Cardinals are number one when it comes to percentage of times scoring a touchdown in the red zone with 75%. The Patsies are number two, although I think they do have more touchdowns in the red zone.

While it's nice to have the big plays, it's far more important to score touchdowns in the red zone. Especially if you're going to be a ball control offense that relies on the run. Perhaps if the Broncos can increase their threat of being able to make the big plays it will some how benefit them when they do get into the red zone. If defenses have to be worried about the pass as much as the run, maybe they won't be able to stack up against the run whenever the Broncos get inside the 20 yard line.

TXBRONC
11-20-2007, 10:37 PM
Actually, the Cardinals are number when it comes to percentage of times scoring a touchdown in the red zone with 75%. The Patsies are number two, although I think they do have more touchdowns in the red zone.

While it's nice to have the big plays, it's far more important to score touchdowns in the red zone. Especially if you're going to be a ball control offense that relies on the run. Perhaps if the Broncos can increase their threat of being able to make the big plays it will some how benefit them when they do get into the red zone. If defenses have to be worried about the pass as much as the run, maybe they won't be able to stack up against the run whenever the Broncos get inside the 20 yard line.

I disagree to an extent. It's important for the offense to coming away with points, ideally touchdowns whenever they are on the field. Our offense did that last night.

Something is getting missed is that Denver for most of the season has had to work with worst starting field position in the League. Having to drive the 60 or more yards as much as Denver has is going to be problematic. Because eventually offenses are going to make a mistake couple that with injuries and young players red zone production is going to go down.

gobroncsnv
11-20-2007, 11:00 PM
Something is getting missed is that Denver for most of the season has had to work with worst starting field position in the League. Having to drive the 60 or more yards as much as Denver has is going to be problematic.

But the good news is that even this is starting to turn around.

And JR, the goal is not to have the longest, most sustained drives in the game... Get 6 from wherever, whenever you can. We've posted about this before... it is NOT ABOUT STYLE POINTS... IT is about 6 points. Points in the red-zone is just a stat. We are scoring more, and I am happy with it. Let's keep it going.

TXBRONC
11-21-2007, 08:21 AM
But the good news is that even this is starting to turn around.

And JR, the goal is not to have the longest, most sustained drives in the game... Get 6 from wherever, whenever you can. We've posted about this before... it is NOT ABOUT STYLE POINTS... IT is about 6 points. Points in the red-zone is just a stat. We are scoring more, and I am happy with it. Let's keep it going.

Absolutely overall Denver is starting to get better field position.

It also just as important to have big plays from the offense as it is to have long sustained drives.

Lonestar
11-21-2007, 12:41 PM
But the good news is that even this is starting to turn around.

And JR, the goal is not to have the longest, most sustained drives in the game... Get 6 from wherever, whenever you can. We've posted about this before... it is NOT ABOUT STYLE POINTS... IT is about 6 points. Points in the red-zone is just a stat. We are scoring more, and I am happy with it. Let's keep it going.


Yes getting a quick 6 or so is good but mikeys "past" offenses were designed to kill the clock and deny the other QB from doing exactly the same thing. getting quick points and and forcing him out of HIS games plan.

The past couple of game we got quick scores that caused at least for awhile the other coach to deviate from doing what most other teams this year have done to us at will. Run the ball and keep the ball out of Cutlers hands.

Lonestar
11-21-2007, 02:12 PM
Are you saying the team has no red zone touchdowns for the year? If you are your dead wrong. We do have red zone touch downs.

So what we didn't score a touchdown in the red zone last night. The offense scored most of their possessions and that's what they are suppose to do.

Well I looked at all the redzone plays here is what I found.
BUF
1-10-BUF 11 (2:32) 37-C.Sapp up the middle to BUF 6 for 5 yards (94-A.Schobel, 51-P.Posluszny). Timeout #1 by BUF at 01:56.
2-5-BUF 6 (1:56) 37-C.Sapp right guard to BUF 5 for 1 yard (55-A.Crowell; 99-J.Jefferson).
3-4-BUF 5 (1:15) 20-T.Henry up the middle to BUF 3 for 2 yards (20-D.Whitner, 90-C.Kelsay).
4-2-BUF 3 (:37) 1-J.Elam 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun. DEN 3 BUF 7 Plays: 10 Possession: 5:44

2-8-BUF 20 (1:40) 20-T.Henry right end pushed ob at BUF 5 for 15 yards (42-J.Leonhard).
1-5-BUF 5 (1:06) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short right to 84-J.Walker (24-T.McGee). Receiver and coverage near sideline at BUF 3.
2-5-BUF 5 (1:01) 6-J.Cutler pass short left to 15-B.Marshall for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Caught in rear left corner of end zone.
TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. 6-J.Cutler pass to 84-J.Walker is incomplete.

ATTEMPT FAILS.
DEN 12 BUF 14 Plays: 10 Possession: 5:30


8 attempts from the red zone one TD. 12.5%


***************
1-10-OAK 17 (6:54) 20-T.Henry right end to OAK 15 for 2 yards (53-T.Howard).
2-8-OAK 15 (6:11) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short left to 84-J.Walker.
3-8-OAK 15 (6:05) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short middle to 15-B.Marshall to OAK 4 for 11 yards (53-T.Howard; 24-M.Huff).
1-4-OAK 4 (5:18) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short left to 15-B.Marshall.
2-4-OAK 4 (5:14) 6-J.Cutler right tackle to OAK 1 for 3 yards (98-J.Richardson). PENALTY on DEN-64-E.Pears, Illegal Formation, 5 yards, enforced at OAK 4 - No Play.
2-9-OAK 9 (5:08) 6-J.Cutler pass short middle to 14-B.Stokley for 9 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun. OAK 0 DEN 7 Plays: 8 Possession: 3:48

1-10-OAK 19 (7:42) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete deep left to 84-J.Walker (21-N.Asomugha) [56-D.Burgess]. PENALTY on OAK-21-N.Asomugha, Defensive Pass Interference, 15 yards, enforced at OAK 19 - No Play.
1-4-OAK 4 (7:37) 37-C.Sapp up the middle for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun. PENALTY on OAK-93-T.Kelly, Illegal Formation, 5 yards, enforced between downs. OAK 3 DEN 14 Plays: 5 Possession: 2:52

1-10-OAK 13 (2:00) 35-S.Young right end to OAK 15 for -2 yards (52-K.Morrison; 54-S.Williams).
2-12-OAK 15 (1:19) 20-T.Henry right guard to OAK 10 for 5 yards (52-K.Morrison).
3-7-OAK 10 (:41) 35-S.Young right guard to OAK 5 for 5 yards (93-T.Kelly). Timeout #2 by OAK at 00:21.
4-2-OAK 5 (:21) 1-J.Elam 23 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
OAK 3 DEN 17 Plays: 10 Possession: 5:18

OAK
1-10-OAK 26 (3:20) 20-T.Henry right end to OAK 15 for 11 yards (30-S.Schweigert). PENALTY on OAK-61-G.Warren, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at OAK 15.
1-10-OAK 10 (3:12) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short left to 84-J.Walker (21-N.Asomugha).
2-10-OAK 10 (3:07) 30-M.Bell up the middle to OAK 7 for 3 yards (54-S.Williams; 98-J.Richardson).
3-7-OAK 7 (2:28) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short left to 84-J.Walker to OAK 2 for 5 yards (21-N.Asomugha, 30-S.Schweigert).
4-2-OAK 2 (2:22) 1-J.Elam 20 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
OAK 20 DEN 20 Plays: 15 Possession: 6:37

1-6-OAK 6 (5:52) 1-J.Elam 23 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun. OAK 20 DEN 23 Plays: 9 Possession: 5:21


19 attempts from the red zone Two TD‘s, Two FG’s . 10.5% TD 10.5% FG left 8 points on the field..
*******************************
JAX
1-10-JAC 17 (9:15) 20-T.Henry left tackle to JAC 17 for no gain (99-M.Stroud). PENALTY on DEN-78-M.Lepsis, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at JAC 17 - No Play.
1-20-JAC 27 (8:52) (Shotgun) 30-M.Bell up the middle to JAC 31 for -4 yards (97-R.Hayward, 93-B.McCray).
2-24-JAC 31 (8:09) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short left to 15-B.Marshall to JAC 1 for 30 yards (27-R.Mathis).
1-1-JAC 1 (7:28) 20-T.Henry left tackle to JAC 1 for no gain (95-P.Spicer).
2-1-JAC 1 (6:44) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 81-N.Jackson for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun. JAX 7 DEN 7 Plays: 10 Possession: 6:29

1-10-JAC 12 (5:39) 20-T.Henry up the middle to JAC 8 for 4 yards (99-M.Stroud).
2-6-JAC 8 (5:01) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 84-J.Walker to JAC 4 for 4 yards (27-R.Mathis). Timeout #2 by DEN at 04:28.
3-2-JAC 4 (4:28) (Shotgun) 35-S.Young up the middle to JAC 3 for 1 yard (54-M.Peterson). Timeout #3 by DEN at 03:52.
4-1-JAC 3 (3:52) 6-J.Cutler up the middle to JAC 3 for no gain (52-D.Smith).

7 attempts from the red zone ONE TD, . 14.3% TD 10.5% left 3-7 points on the field. With a 4-1 on their 3 yard line.
****************************************

COLTS
1-10-IND 20 (12:24) 20-T.Henry up the middle to IND 17 for 3 yards (94-R.Morris, 58-G.Brackett).
2-7-IND 17 (11:47) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short left to 15-B.Marshall. 3-7-IND 17 (11:41) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete deep right to 15-B.Marshall [93-D.Freeney].
4-7-IND 17 (11:36) 1-J.Elam 35 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
DEN 3 IND 0 Plays: 8 Possession: 3:28

1-9-IND 9 (3:46) 20-T.Henry right end to IND 6 for 3 yards (94-R.Morris).
2-6-IND 6 (3:09) 20-T.Henry up the middle to IND 7 for -1 yards (93-D.Freeney). FUMBLES (93-D.Freeney), recovered by DEN-78-M.Lepsis at IND 7. 78-M.Lepsis to IND 7 for no gain (41-A.Bethea).
3-7-IND 7 (2:26) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short middle to 15-B.Marshall for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
DEN 10 IND 0 Plays: 10 Possession: 5:28

2-8-IND 24 (10:10) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 14-B.Stokley pushed ob at IND 12 for 12 yards (26-K.Hayden).
1-10-IND 12 (9:44) 20-T.Henry left end pushed ob at IND 11 for 1 yard (54-F.Keiaho, 21-B.Sanders).
2-9-IND 11 (9:13) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short right to 81-N.Jackson (91-J.Thomas). 3-9-IND 11 (9:10) (Shotgun) 35-S.Young right guard to IND 4 for 7 yards (28-M.Jackson).
4-2-IND 4 (8:32) 1-J.Elam 22 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
DEN 13 IND 7 Plays: 12 Possession: 5:54

1-10-IND 11 (2:13) 35-S.Young right tackle to IND 2 for 9 yards (43-M.Giordano).
2-1-IND 2 (1:34) 35-S.Young left tackle to IND 2 for no gain (93-D.Freeney, 43-M.Giordano). PENALTY on IND, Defensive 12 On-field, 0 yards, enforced at IND 2 - No Play.
2-1-IND 2 (1:13) 6-J.Cutler up the middle for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
DEN 20 IND 28 Plays: 14 Possession: 7:45

14 attempts from the red zone Two TD‘s, One FG . 14.3% TD 7.1% FG left 4 points on the field..
******************************

SAN

1-10-SD 18 (2:13) 20-T.Henry up the middle to SD 14 for 4 yards (97-R.Bingham). Two-Minute Warning
2-6-SD 14 (2:00) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 35-S.Young.
3-6-SD 14 (1:56) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short left to 35-S.Young to SD 12 for 2 yards (42-C.Hart).
4-4-SD 12 (1:19) 1-J.Elam 30 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
SD 17 DEN 3 Plays: 10 Possession: 5:13

4-5-SD 27 (11:31) 5-M.Scifres punt is BLOCKED by 88-T.Scheffler, Center-50-D.Binn, ball out of bounds at SD 22.

1-10-SD 22 (11:19) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short left to 15-B.Marshall to SD 13 for 9 yards (57-M.Wilhelm).
2-1-SD 13 (10:56) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 86-B.Clark.
3-1-SD 13 (10:52) 20-T.Henry right end to SD 16 for -3 yards (32-E.Weddle; 23-Q.Jammer). Penalty on DEN-64-E.Pears, Offensive Holding, declined.
4-4-SD 16 (10:32) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler right guard to SD 14 for 2 yards (42-C.Hart; 93-L.Castillo).

9 attempts from the red zone One FG ZERO TDs . 11.1% FG left 4-11 points on the field..
**********************************************

PIT
1-10-PIT 16 (7:45) 20-T.Henry up the middle to PIT 15 for 1 yard (91-AA.Smith, 53-C.Haggans).
2-9-PIT 15 (7:08) 20-T.Henry right end to PIT 15 for no gain (98-C.Hampton; 53-C.Haggans).
3-9-PIT 15 (6:24) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 14-B.Stokley for 15 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
PIT 7 DEN 7 Plays: 9 Possession: 4:43

1-7-PIT 7 (5:29) 20-T.Henry up the middle to PIT 1 for 6 yards (92-J.Harrison).
2-1-PIT 1 (4:45) 20-T.Henry left guard to PIT 1 for no gain (50-L.Foote).
3-1-PIT 1 (4:05) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 37-C.Sapp for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
PIT 7 DEN 14 Plays: 6 Possession: 3:15

1-10-PIT 23 (1:13) 6-J.Cutler pass short left to 15-B.Marshall pushed ob at PIT 1 for 22 yards (25-R.Clark).
1-1-PIT 1 (:41) 20-T.Henry left guard to PIT 1 for no gain (76-C.Hoke).
2-1-PIT 1 (:05) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 88-T.Scheffler for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
PIT 14 DEN 28 Plays: 13 Possession: 8:10

9 attempts from the red zone Three TD‘s 33.3% TD 10.5% FG left 0 points on the field..

******************************
Part two coming

Lonestar
11-21-2007, 02:13 PM
GB

1-8-GB 8 (5:59) 35-S.Young up the middle to GB 2 for 6 yards (20-A.Bigby; 51-B.Poppinga).
2-2-GB 2 (5:24) 35-S.Young up the middle to GB 5 for -3 yards (94-K.Gbaja-Biamila).
3-5-GB 5 (4:45) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 89-D.Graham. PENALTY on GB-20-A.Bigby, Defensive Pass Interference, 4 yards, enforced at GB 5 - No Play. 1-1-GB 1 (4:40) 35-S.Young up the middle to GB 5 for -4 yards (77-C.Jenkins; 59-T.White).
2-5-GB 5 (4:00) 6-J.Cutler pass short left to 88-T.Scheffler for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
GB 0 DEN 7 Plays: 10 Possession: 5:24

1-7-GB 7 (:28) 23-A.Hall up the middle to GB 1 for 6 yards (50-A.Hawk; 56-N.Barnett).
2-1-GB 1 (15:00) 6-J.Cutler FUMBLES (Aborted) at GB 1, RECOVERED by GB-56-N.Barnett at GB 1. 56-N.Barnett to GB 1 for no gain (73-C.Kuper).

1-10-GB 26 (1:16) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short middle to 15-B.Marshall to GB 13 for 13 yards (50-A.Hawk).
1-10-GB 13 (:38) 35-S.Young right tackle to GB 4 for 9 yards (94-K.Gbaja-Biamila). Timeout #3 by DEN at 00:25.
2-1-GB 4 (:25) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short left to 15-B.Marshall.
3-1-GB 4 (:22) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler up the middle to GB 4 for no gain (79-R.Pickett).
4-1-GB 4 (:03) 1-J.Elam 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
GB 13 DEN 13 Plays: 11 Possession: 2:27

11 attempts from the red zone One TD, One FG. 9.1% TD 9.1 FG left 7-10 points on the field..
***********************************

DET
1-2-DET 2 (2:38) 11-P.Ramsey pass short right to 14-B.Stokley for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Detroit challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #3 at 02:31.)
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun. DEN 7 DET 44 Plays: 9 Possession: 2:44

2-5-DET 20 (:36) (Shotgun) 11-P.Ramsey pass short right to 15-B.Marshall to DET 5 for 15 yards (23-K.Smith; 42-G.Alexander). Timeout #2 by DEN at 00:36.
1-5-DET 5 (:23) (Shotgun) 11-P.Ramsey pass short right to 86-B.Clark to DET 1 for 4 yards (31-S.Wilson). FUMBLES (31-S.Wilson), RECOVERED by DET-44-I.Bashir at DET 0. Touchback. The Replay Assistant challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was Upheld.

TOP DEN 31:32 DET 28:28


4 attempts from the red zone One TD, Zero FG’s . 25.0% TD 0% FG left 7 points on the field..
************************************
KC

1-10-KC 20 (13:40) 35-S.Young right end for 20 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
DEN 13 KC 8 Plays: 3 Possession: 1:07

3-2-KC 18 (10:44) 6-J.Cutler pass deep middle to 89-D.Graham for 18 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun. DEN 27 KC 11 Plays: 6 Possession: 3:31

TOP DEN 31:32 DET 28:28

2 attempts from the red zone Two TD‘s, 0 FG’s . 100% TD 0 % FG left 0 points on the field..
************************************
TEN

1-10-TEN 11 (12:07) 35-S.Young right end to TEN 9 for 2 yards (53-K.Bulluck; 33-M.Griffin).
2-8-TEN 9 (11:40) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 88-T.Scheffler pushed ob at TEN 2 for 7 yards (21-R.Hill).
3-1-TEN 2 (11:04) 35-S.Young up the middle to TEN 3 for -1 yards (94-B.Fisher).
4-2-TEN 3 (10:29) 1-J.Elam 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.

TEN 7 DEN 17 Plays: 6 Possession: 2:50

2-8-TEN 20 (2:16) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 37-C.Sapp to TEN 21 for -1 yards (50-D.Thornton). Two-Minute Warning
3-9-TEN 21 (2:00) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 17-G.Martinez.
4-9-TEN 21 (1:56) 1-J.Elam 39 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.

TEN 7 DEN 20 Plays: 10 Possession: 4:00

TOP TEN 35:23 DEN 24:27

7 attempts from the red zone ZERO TD‘s, Two FG’s . 0% TD 28.6% FG left 8 points on the field..

We had 42 run attempts and 33 pass attempts 13 FG’s and 4 other plays in the red zone.
9 Passing TD’s, 3 running. One by Sapp one on a QB keeper, on by Young from 20 yards out.
Of the Running TD’s one inside the 5 by a Rb. Pathetic if you ask me..

Our Redzone presence IMO sucks especially running the ball!!!!

gobroncsnv
11-21-2007, 06:29 PM
Wonder how the percentage works out when you just go from the bye week? It's like we got better on all 3 phases of the game from that point on. Especially the last 2 games. Do we have the problem solved? I guess if you're only worried about red zone scoring, the answer is no. To me, the larger issue was averaging 17 pts per game. Appears we're getting over that. If the season reached a turning point in KC, then we have to reset the markers there, since that's when we became a better team. If teams are stupid enough to game plan for us from film in games 1 through 8, I say we let'em. We appear to have moved on, but time will tell.

TXBRONC
11-21-2007, 07:14 PM
GB

1-8-GB 8 (5:59) 35-S.Young up the middle to GB 2 for 6 yards (20-A.Bigby; 51-B.Poppinga).
2-2-GB 2 (5:24) 35-S.Young up the middle to GB 5 for -3 yards (94-K.Gbaja-Biamila).
3-5-GB 5 (4:45) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 89-D.Graham. PENALTY on GB-20-A.Bigby, Defensive Pass Interference, 4 yards, enforced at GB 5 - No Play. 1-1-GB 1 (4:40) 35-S.Young up the middle to GB 5 for -4 yards (77-C.Jenkins; 59-T.White).
2-5-GB 5 (4:00) 6-J.Cutler pass short left to 88-T.Scheffler for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
GB 0 DEN 7 Plays: 10 Possession: 5:24

1-7-GB 7 (:28) 23-A.Hall up the middle to GB 1 for 6 yards (50-A.Hawk; 56-N.Barnett).
2-1-GB 1 (15:00) 6-J.Cutler FUMBLES (Aborted) at GB 1, RECOVERED by GB-56-N.Barnett at GB 1. 56-N.Barnett to GB 1 for no gain (73-C.Kuper).

1-10-GB 26 (1:16) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass short middle to 15-B.Marshall to GB 13 for 13 yards (50-A.Hawk).
1-10-GB 13 (:38) 35-S.Young right tackle to GB 4 for 9 yards (94-K.Gbaja-Biamila). Timeout #3 by DEN at 00:25.
2-1-GB 4 (:25) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short left to 15-B.Marshall.
3-1-GB 4 (:22) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler up the middle to GB 4 for no gain (79-R.Pickett).
4-1-GB 4 (:03) 1-J.Elam 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
GB 13 DEN 13 Plays: 11 Possession: 2:27

11 attempts from the red zone One TD, One FG. 9.1% TD 9.1 FG left 7-10 points on the field..
***********************************

DET
1-2-DET 2 (2:38) 11-P.Ramsey pass short right to 14-B.Stokley for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Detroit challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #3 at 02:31.)
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun. DEN 7 DET 44 Plays: 9 Possession: 2:44

2-5-DET 20 (:36) (Shotgun) 11-P.Ramsey pass short right to 15-B.Marshall to DET 5 for 15 yards (23-K.Smith; 42-G.Alexander). Timeout #2 by DEN at 00:36.
1-5-DET 5 (:23) (Shotgun) 11-P.Ramsey pass short right to 86-B.Clark to DET 1 for 4 yards (31-S.Wilson). FUMBLES (31-S.Wilson), RECOVERED by DET-44-I.Bashir at DET 0. Touchback. The Replay Assistant challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was Upheld.

TOP DEN 31:32 DET 28:28


4 attempts from the red zone One TD, Zero FG’s . 25.0% TD 0% FG left 7 points on the field..
************************************
KC

1-10-KC 20 (13:40) 35-S.Young right end for 20 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.
DEN 13 KC 8 Plays: 3 Possession: 1:07

3-2-KC 18 (10:44) 6-J.Cutler pass deep middle to 89-D.Graham for 18 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-J.Elam extra point is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun. DEN 27 KC 11 Plays: 6 Possession: 3:31

TOP DEN 31:32 DET 28:28

2 attempts from the red zone Two TD‘s, 0 FG’s . 100% TD 0 % FG left 0 points on the field..
************************************
TEN

1-10-TEN 11 (12:07) 35-S.Young right end to TEN 9 for 2 yards (53-K.Bulluck; 33-M.Griffin).
2-8-TEN 9 (11:40) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 88-T.Scheffler pushed ob at TEN 2 for 7 yards (21-R.Hill).
3-1-TEN 2 (11:04) 35-S.Young up the middle to TEN 3 for -1 yards (94-B.Fisher).
4-2-TEN 3 (10:29) 1-J.Elam 21 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.

TEN 7 DEN 17 Plays: 6 Possession: 2:50

2-8-TEN 20 (2:16) 6-J.Cutler pass short right to 37-C.Sapp to TEN 21 for -1 yards (50-D.Thornton). Two-Minute Warning
3-9-TEN 21 (2:00) (Shotgun) 6-J.Cutler pass incomplete short middle to 17-G.Martinez.
4-9-TEN 21 (1:56) 1-J.Elam 39 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-83-M.Leach, Holder-10-T.Sauerbrun.

TEN 7 DEN 20 Plays: 10 Possession: 4:00

TOP TEN 35:23 DEN 24:27

7 attempts from the red zone ZERO TD‘s, Two FG’s . 0% TD 28.6% FG left 8 points on the field..

We had 42 run attempts and 33 pass attempts 13 FG’s and 4 other plays in the red zone.
9 Passing TD’s, 3 running. One by Sapp one on a QB keeper, on by Young from 20 yards out.
Of the Running TD’s one inside the 5 by a Rb. Pathetic if you ask me..

Our Redzone presence IMO sucks especially running the ball!!!!


Nobody ever said it was great!

My question to you was: " Are you saying we haven't scored any red zone touchdown this season?" That would be dead wrong.

That being said using Monday's game as to criticize the team you say you like doesn't make a very good arguement in my opinion.

broncosfanscott
11-21-2007, 09:16 PM
We can be bad in the red zone for the rest of the season if we score from 40+ all the time.

I hear ya. Although it would be nice to punch it in inside the 20 instead of FGs.

omac
11-21-2007, 09:57 PM
Wonder how the percentage works out when you just go from the bye week? It's like we got better on all 3 phases of the game from that point on. Especially the last 2 games. Do we have the problem solved? I guess if you're only worried about red zone scoring, the answer is no. To me, the larger issue was averaging 17 pts per game. Appears we're getting over that. If the season reached a turning point in KC, then we have to reset the markers there, since that's when we became a better team. If teams are stupid enough to game plan for us from film in games 1 through 8, I say we let'em. We appear to have moved on, but time will tell.

Nice post! :salute:

I guess that's the point; why keep looking back to the start of the year? The real question is, are we getting better at scoring, and it sure looks like we are. We scored 27 points against a KC defense that averages only 18.6 points allowed (8th in the NFL); we scored 34 points against a Titans defense that also averages 18.6 points allowed.

Against Tennessee, we started in the red zone in one drive; against KC, we we started in the red zone in two drives, and both times we got TDs.

If you count the first drive against KC that brought us into the 21 yard line as a red zone, the 1st play got good yardage, up to the 15, but a penalty by Martinez brought us way out of the redzone at the 31 yard line, with 1st and 20.

If you count the drive against Tennessee that started at the 22 yard line, the plays were first a rush of 2 yards (technically bringing us into the outer edge of the red zone, at 2nd and 8), then a pass (dumpoff?/screen?) to Sapp for -1 yards, making it 3rd and 9. The next pass was to Marinez near the 1st down marker, but Martinez dropped the ball.

A seemingly quick fix would be to risk passing the ball more, as Jay's been more efficient than the rushing as the endzone gets closer. Doesn't matter, there has been improvement over the last 2 games.

(added) After seeing what I just typed, this leads me to believe that maybe we shouldn't use Martinez much in scoring territory ... or maybe just keep him in the special teams unit first.

TXBRONC
11-22-2007, 03:52 PM
Nice post! :salute:

I guess that's the point; why keep looking back to the start of the year? The real question is, are we getting better at scoring, and it sure looks like we are. We scored 27 points against a KC defense that averages only 18.6 points allowed (8th in the NFL); we scored 34 points against a Titans defense that also averages 18.6 points allowed.

Against Tennessee, we started in the red zone in one drive; against KC, we we started in the red zone in two drives, and both times we got TDs.

If you count the first drive against KC that brought us into the 21 yard line as a red zone, the 1st play got good yardage, up to the 15, but a penalty by Martinez brought us way out of the redzone at the 31 yard line, with 1st and 20.

If you count the drive against Tennessee that started at the 22 yard line, the plays were first a rush of 2 yards (technically bringing us into the outer edge of the red zone, at 2nd and 8), then a pass (dumpoff?/screen?) to Sapp for -1 yards, making it 3rd and 9. The next pass was to Marinez near the 1st down marker, but Martinez dropped the ball.

A seemingly quick fix would be to risk passing the ball more, as Jay's been more efficient than the rushing as the endzone gets closer. Doesn't matter, there has been improvement over the last 2 games.

(added) After seeing what I just typed, this leads me to believe that maybe we shouldn't use Martinez much in scoring territory ... or maybe just keep him in the special teams unit first.


For Jr to make the argument he has to go back to the beginning of the year.

Lonestar
11-22-2007, 03:58 PM
For Jr to make the argument he has to go back to the beginning of the year.

I thought it only fitting to place all the information out there instead of cherry picking just a couple of games. Since someone questioned the original post, I thought it was the best thing to do.


Would hate to have someone come in and say "what about this game or this one?"

Now all the stats and facts are on the table for everyone on to see and contemplate. Some will continue to believe this team is almost as good as the super bowl years and others that are not seeing it through ONLY orange tinted glasses and will drink whatever koolade mikey pours, will not.

TXBRONC
11-22-2007, 04:07 PM
I thought it only fitting to place all the information out there instead of cherry picking just a couple of games. Since someone questioned the original post, I thought it was the best thing to do.


Would hate to have someone come in and say "what about this game or this one?"

Now all the stats and facts are on the table for everyone on to see and contemplate. Some will continue to believe this team is almost as good as the super bowl years and others that are not seeing it through ONLY orange tinted glasses and will drink whatever koolade mikey pours, will not.

Name one person who has said this team is as good as one from '97 and '98.

shank
11-24-2007, 01:54 PM
Name one person who has said this team is as good as one from '97 and '98.

i don't think jr meant that literally, and he does have a valid point that he backed up very well with all the stats. we have a huge problem of not being able to score in the redzone. I disagree that it will "come back" to haunt us, as i think it's busy haunting us as we speak.

our line is small and gets pushed into the ball carrier almost every time we run inside the 20, and if they don't someone always seems to get a big penalty that puts us in bad situations leading to field goals. it seems that the players don't execute inside the redzone, and when they do the unavoidable penalty or fluke-fumble or something puts a stop to our drive and we have to settle.

i have seen brandon marshal in single coverage a lot this year in the redzone, and i can only recall 2 passes going to him in this situation, one of which was a touchdown (on a fade route). The other was a bad throw by cutler to marshal's back shoulder... with his size and hands, we should take a shot to him every time he has single coverage in the redzone, just like we did last year with javon. when we get javon back, we should just figue out which has single coverage and let them go up and get the ball, when teams fear that, maybe we can run a little better down there as well.

also, where the hell are our tight ends in the red zone? they are left in to get run over run or pass blocking? run some two tight end sets and pass, just like we all assumed we'd be doing a LOT before the season started. Sheffler and Graham should be getting touchdowns.

Lonestar
11-24-2007, 03:25 PM
i don't think jr meant that literally, and he does have a valid point that he backed up very well with all the stats. we have a huge problem of not being able to score in the redzone. I disagree that it will "come back" to haunt us, as i think it's busy haunting us as we speak.

our line is small and gets pushed into the ball carrier almost every time we run inside the 20, and if they don't someone always seems to get a big penalty that puts us in bad situations leading to field goals. it seems that the players don't execute inside the redzone, and when they do the unavoidable penalty or fluke-fumble or something puts a stop to our drive and we have to settle.

i have seen brandon marshal in single coverage a lot this year in the redzone, and i can only recall 2 passes going to him in this situation, one of which was a touchdown (on a fade route). The other was a bad throw by cutler to marshal's back shoulder... with his size and hands, we should take a shot to him every time he has single coverage in the redzone, just like we did last year with javon. when we get javon back, we should just figue out which has single coverage and let them go up and get the ball, when teams fear that, maybe we can run a little better down there as well.

also, where the hell are our tight ends in the red zone? they are left in to get run over run or pass blocking? run some two tight end sets and pass, just like we all assumed we'd be doing a LOT before the season started. Sheffler and Graham should be getting touchdowns.


Thanks for the thoughts. My real concern is deep red zone inside the 5 to 10... Where the field is all shrunk up the defense now only has 15 to 20 yards to defend.

Where the OLINE is not really effective in zone blocking because the defense stacks the LOS. OUR OLINE can move the DL but not the other 2-3 three players so close to the LOS.

The only effective RED zone guy we have is the legs and arm of Jay down there since we had ONE RB TD inside the 5 all year.

shank
11-24-2007, 08:52 PM
Thanks for the thoughts. My real concern is deep red zone inside the 5 to 10... Where the field is all shrunk up the defense now only has 15 to 20 yards to defend.

Where the OLINE is not really effective in zone blocking because the defense stacks the LOS. OUR OLINE can move the DL but not the other 2-3 three players so close to the LOS.

The only effective RED zone guy we have is the legs and arm of Jay down there since we had ONE RB TD inside the 5 all year.

exactly. remember last year when walker was healthy how almost every red zone trip we would throw his direction and give him a chance to beat his guy? with walker and marshal towering over most cornerbacks, and teams stacking the box inside the 10, i don't see why we don't take more shots to let brandon or javon make a play. throwing to the wr's outside shoulder is an almost undefendable play when it is thrown right. use those along with fades to the outside and i see at least 7/10 of those plays coming down in javon or marhsal's hands. add into that our awesome tight ends, who are usually very hard to stop in the redzone and i guess what i'm saying is why do we run anymore inside the red zone? i think that the only reason is that it's what you're 'supposed' to do... if we start throwing for tds on first down, maybe it will pull a guy or two out of the box and we can either finish the drive on first down or run it in on 3rd when they ACTUALLy don't expect it... i 70% blame our redzone woes on the playcalling. the other 30% goes to player mistakes and bad luck.

Simple Jaded
11-24-2007, 09:25 PM
"The o-line is starting to come together"..."You can't get a TD every time". The commentators mentioned the "injuries".

If you think the problem with redzone is going to fix itself with time, you haven't been paying attention. It's been a problem for years, how much time does it need to fix itself?

My question is geared more towards the future:

Can the Broncos system work as well between the 20's as it does now with offensive lineman who can actually hold their own in the redzone/short yardage and pass protection?

If not, I say ****can the system, it's antiquated!

What good are lineman that can rack up seemingly meaningless yards but can't push a shopping cart OR protect the franchise QB without getting his leg snapped before he's completed his THREE STEP DROP?

The problem with the redzone is the same as it's always been...the offensive line! But since it always puts up sexy stats (Well, at least until it fades badly in the second half of the season), nobody cares to acknowledge it's ENORMOUS flaws (Almost nobody).

When was the last time the offense was able to run out the clock when it had to by running the ball?....Another OL flaw I've noticed when the Broncos actually have a lead to protect. They CAN NOT DO IT! Yet we have no problem finding fault in the QB or the defense for not getting a stop?

Those rushing stats are Fools Gold......

Lonestar
11-25-2007, 12:35 AM
"The o-line is starting to come together"..."You can't get a TD every time". The commentators mentioned the "injuries".

If you think the problem with redzone is going to fix itself with time, you haven't been paying attention. It's been a problem for years, how much time does it need to fix itself?

My question is geared more towards the future:

Can the Broncos system work as well between the 20's as it does now with offensive lineman who can actually hold their own in the redzone/short yardage and pass protection?

If not, I say ****can the system, it's antiquated!

What good are lineman that can rack up seemingly meaningless yards but can't push a shopping cart OR protect the franchise QB without getting his leg snapped before he's completed his THREE STEP DROP?

The problem with the redzone is the same as it's always been...the offensive line! But since it always puts up sexy stats (Well, at least until it fades badly in the second half of the season), nobody cares to acknowledge it's ENORMOUS flaws (Almost nobody).

When was the last time the offense was able to run out the clock when it had to by running the ball?....Another OL flaw I've noticed when the Broncos actually have a lead to protect. They CAN NOT DO IT! Yet we have no problem finding fault in the QB or the defense for not getting a stop?

Those rushing stats are Fools Gold......

Outstanding post..:salute:

broncosfanscott
11-25-2007, 12:49 AM
"The o-line is starting to come together"..."You can't get a TD every time". The commentators mentioned the "injuries".

If you think the problem with redzone is going to fix itself with time, you haven't been paying attention. It's been a problem for years, how much time does it need to fix itself?

My question is geared more towards the future:

Can the Broncos system work as well between the 20's as it does now with offensive lineman who can actually hold their own in the redzone/short yardage and pass protection?

If not, I say ****can the system, it's antiquated!

What good are lineman that can rack up seemingly meaningless yards but can't push a shopping cart OR protect the franchise QB without getting his leg snapped before he's completed his THREE STEP DROP?

The problem with the redzone is the same as it's always been...the offensive line! But since it always puts up sexy stats (Well, at least until it fades badly in the second half of the season), nobody cares to acknowledge it's ENORMOUS flaws (Almost nobody).

When was the last time the offense was able to run out the clock when it had to by running the ball?....Another OL flaw I've noticed when the Broncos actually have a lead to protect. They CAN NOT DO IT! Yet we have no problem finding fault in the QB or the defense for not getting a stop?

Those rushing stats are Fools Gold......


Very good point. Nice post.

omac
11-25-2007, 03:42 AM
Can the Broncos system work as well between the 20's as it does now with offensive lineman who can actually hold their own in the redzone/short yardage and pass protection?

Well, since you're talking about pass protection in the redzone, here are Cutler's stats this season when passing on goal-to-to.

On 1st-and-goad, he's 0 of 3; on 2nd-and-goal, he's 5 of 5 with 5 TDs; on 3rd-and-goal, he's 3 of 3, with 2 TDs (the other pass not resulting in a TD). Oh, and he has no interceptions in these situations. That doesn't show just how good Cutler is at goal-to-go passing, but it shows that the line gives him at least ample protection to be effective.

Different teams have different strengths and weaknesses; the Colts are so good at passing, it opens up their run game, not only for their featured back Addai, but even for their backup Keith; the Steelers run game is also pretty effective that it opens up their passing game. Both these teams have different approaches to their offense .... the Colts use the pass to set up the run, the Steelers use the run to set up the pass .... yet the Colts have more than double the number of rushing TDs than the Steelers have (14 to 6 over 10 games), and they're both high scoring teams. That makes me think that defenses try to stop the pass and are softer against the run with the Colts, and the exact opposite with the Steelers. Pittsburgh's pass attempts per game is the 4th lowest in the league, yet they get most of their TDs from passing, and they're the 6th highest scoring team in the league.

All it takes is some adjustment in playcalling; Shanahan's admitted to protecting Cutler so he doesn't end up as messed up as shellshocked as Elway was when he first started. The more Shannahan trusts how ready Jay is, the more he puts the game in his hands. He's already asking Jay to do more than most young QBs are asked to do; Rivers is much more seasoned, yet all he's asked to do is hit the open guy in a much less complex system. In time, Cutler will have and make more TD throws.

Also, our main back, Travis Henry, hasn't been healthy for most of the season. This is someone who breaks tackles and carries people. Doesn't anyone remember how good he looked running early in the season? An injury to this kind of back will hurt, as Selvin Young doesn't have the frame to bulldoze over tacklers. Nalen and Hamilton out also hurt a lot.


If not, I say ****can the system, it's antiquated!

What good are lineman that can rack up seemingly meaningless yards but can't push a shopping cart OR protect the franchise QB without getting his leg snapped before he's completed his THREE STEP DROP?

This line is in transition; our solid dependable center and guard are out, and our left tackle who's usually pretty solid hasn't been himself since his injury. We have 2 sophomores (one of whom played all of 1 game last season), a 3rd year player, and a veteran who's in his 1st year as a Bronco. This is definitely a line that isn't yet at it's best. It could end up a worse line than before, but it could also become a much better one, but they need time to develop and gel as a unit. Offensive line is about teamwork, and that takes time.

The good thing for us is that Culter has a pretty quick release, is pretty mobile, and has good pocket awareness. Quarterbacks getting sacked happen to every team in the league. Jay Cutler is middle of the league with 14 sacks; Kitna has the high at 44, while Anderson has the low at 9.


The problem with the redzone is the same as it's always been...the offensive line! But since it always puts up sexy stats (Well, at least until it fades badly in the second half of the season), nobody cares to acknowledge it's ENORMOUS flaws (Almost nobody).

When was the last time the offense was able to run out the clock when it had to by running the ball?....Another OL flaw I've noticed when the Broncos actually have a lead to protect. They CAN NOT DO IT! Yet we have no problem finding fault in the QB or the defense for not getting a stop?

Those rushing stats are Fools Gold......

Hardly fools gold; Denver's 12th in rushing yardage, and that's operating with a mostly injured feature back, and 2 ufa backups, yet they've outrushed teams with league feature backs like LT and LJ. Sure the KC stats could be skewed now because of LJ's injury, but look no further than the start of the season to see the dismal performances of both LJ and LT with their traditional lines. Every system has a strength and weakness. The Vikings may look like a juggernaught against Chicago, until they face GB. The Denver rushing offense has, for most of their games, been very consistent, even with a lack of a feature back.

On difficulty running out the clock or holding on to a lead, that will happen to any team that becomes predictable enough in their play calling. Check out the Tennessee game; what got us the lead was mixing up the playcalling with runs and passes, and even aggressive passes. When we had the lead, it was mostly run to use up clock, then pass. Tougher to move the ball when the opposition knows what's coming.

At the very, very least, our rushing attack brings us to the scoring zone. Another thing to consider is just how much yardage we've had to work for most of the year, with poor field possition. Very difficult to continue to sustain drives when you consistently start pretty near your own endzone. Good thing for us, that's been improving these last few games.

Simple Jaded
11-25-2007, 04:35 AM
Well, since you're talking about pass protection in the redzone, here are Cutler's stats this season when passing on goal-to-to.

On 1st-and-goad, he's 0 of 3; on 2nd-and-goal, he's 5 of 5 with 5 TDs; on 3rd-and-goal, he's 3 of 3, with 2 TDs (the other pass not resulting in a TD). Oh, and he has no interceptions in these situations. That doesn't show just how good Cutler is at goal-to-go passing, but it shows that the line gives him at least ample protection to be effective.

Different teams have different strengths and weaknesses; the Colts are so good at passing, it opens up their run game, not only for their featured back Addai, but even for their backup Keith; the Steelers run game is also pretty effective that it opens up their passing game. Both these teams have different approaches to their offense .... the Colts use the pass to set up the run, the Steelers use the run to set up the pass .... yet the Colts have more than double the number of rushing TDs than the Steelers have (14 to 6 over 10 games), and they're both high scoring teams. That makes me think that defenses try to stop the pass and are softer against the run with the Colts, and the exact opposite with the Steelers. Pittsburgh's pass attempts per game is the 4th lowest in the league, yet they get most of their TDs from passing, and they're the 6th highest scoring team in the league.

All it takes is some adjustment in playcalling; Shanahan's admitted to protecting Cutler so he doesn't end up as messed up as shellshocked as Elway was when he first started. The more Shannahan trusts how ready Jay is, the more he puts the game in his hands. He's already asking Jay to do more than most young QBs are asked to do; Rivers is much more seasoned, yet all he's asked to do is hit the open guy in a much less complex system. In time, Cutler will have and make more TD throws.

Also, our main back, Travis Henry, hasn't been healthy for most of the season. This is someone who breaks tackles and carries people. Doesn't anyone remember how good he looked running early in the season? An injury to this kind of back will hurt, as Selvin Young doesn't have the frame to bulldoze over tacklers. Nalen and Hamilton out also hurt a lot.



This line is in transition; our solid dependable center and guard are out, and our left tackle who's usually pretty solid hasn't been himself since his injury. We have 2 sophomores (one of whom played all of 1 game last season), a 3rd year player, and a veteran who's in his 1st year as a Bronco. This is definitely a line that isn't yet at it's best. It could end up a worse line than before, but it could also become a much better one, but they need time to develop and gel as a unit. Offensive line is about teamwork, and that takes time.

The good thing for us is that Culter has a pretty quick release, is pretty mobile, and has good pocket awareness. Quarterbacks getting sacked happen to every team in the league. Jay Cutler is middle of the league with 14 sacks; Kitna has the high at 44, while Anderson has the low at 9.



Hardly fools gold; Denver's 12th in rushing yardage, and that's operating with a mostly injured feature back, and 2 ufa backups, yet they've outrushed teams with league feature backs like LT and LJ. Sure the KC stats could be skewed now because of LJ's injury, but look no further than the start of the season to see the dismal performances of both LJ and LT with their traditional lines. Every system has a strength and weakness. The Vikings may look like a juggernaught against Chicago, until they face GB. The Denver rushing offense has, for most of their games, been very consistent, even with a lack of a feature back.

On difficulty running out the clock or holding on to a lead, that will happen to any team that becomes predictable enough in their play calling. Check out the Tennessee game; what got us the lead was mixing up the playcalling with runs and passes, and even aggressive passes. When we had the lead, it was mostly run to use up clock, then pass. Tougher to move the ball when the opposition knows what's coming.

At the very, very least, our rushing attack brings us to the scoring zone. Another thing to consider is just how much yardage we've had to work for most of the year, with poor field possition. Very difficult to continue to sustain drives when you consistently start pretty near your own endzone. Good thing for us, that's been improving these last few games.

All they need is time?

It's been 7 or 8 years.

You put a lot of time, effort and thought into your post, well done too btw, but I've been through this argument far too many times to agree with any of this.

My frustration has been soothed by the calm, rational posts like this too may times to ignore the frustrations coming back with what I see every game for the last 7 or 8 years.

I've come to the realization that this line is just going to be like this forever....This is what they are!....This is who they are!

They may get to be more cohesive, but they'll still have the same glaring weaknesses that they have always had....They are smaller and weaker than the players they go against every single time they take the field.

There are just certain things they will never be able to do. No excuses!

It's not injuries....It's not play calling....It's not the running backs.

It's the offensive line and their flaws! They may be able to enjoy slight improvements, but they'll just never be a top line....Ever!

Again, great post, but I'm too far gone to buy any of it. Have I not been burned out on this debate, you do make some good points that I'd like to touch on.

It's just become pointless to me......

omac
11-25-2007, 06:40 AM
All they need is time?

It's been 7 or 8 years.

You put a lot of time, effort and thought into your post, well done too btw, but I've been through this argument far too many times to agree with any of this.

My frustration has been soothed by the calm, rational posts like this too may times to ignore the frustrations coming back with what I see every game for the last 7 or 8 years.

I've come to the realization that this line is just going to be like this forever....This is what they are!....This is who they are!

They may get to be more cohesive, but they'll still have the same glaring weaknesses that they have always had....They are smaller and weaker than the players they go against every single time they take the field.

There are just certain things they will never be able to do. No excuses!

It's not injuries....It's not play calling....It's not the running backs.

It's the offensive line and their flaws! They may be able to enjoy slight improvements, but they'll just never be a top line....Ever!

Again, great post, but I'm too far gone to buy any of it. Have I not been burned out on this debate, you do make some good points that I'd like to touch on.

It's just become pointless to me......

7 or 8 years? No, look no further than 2005, where the Broncos were 2nd in the league in rushing with 2,539 yards and, 3rd in the league in rushing TDs with 25. In 2004, they were 4th in rushing yardage, and middle of the pack in rushing TDS, but again, in 2003, they were 2nd in rushing yardage and 3rd in rushing TDs. In 2002, they were 5th in rushing yardage and 5th in rushing TDs. 2001 was an off year, with Denver ranking only 10th in rushing yardage and having the next to last number of rushing TDS. The previous year though (2000), Denver was 3rd in rushing yardage and 3rd in rushing TDs.

Denver's been ranked in the top 5 of the league in rushing TDs quite a few times in that 7 or 8 year period that you speak off, even with consideration to the injury to Terrell Davis, and the numerous different featured backs.

It's getting pretty vogue now to say that Denver's line hasn't been getting it done all these years, but the stats prove otherwise. What are realistic considerations that have been affecting rushing TD production? Age, injuries, changes in personnel causing transitions in the line, as well as injuries and changes to the featured backs, probably other factors too.

To say the rushing style nor the line isn't working despite Denver being in the top 5 for rushing TDs for 4 of those 8 years you speak of doesn't show a real strong case.

(added) Btw, much thanks for the compliments. :cheers:

omac
11-25-2007, 07:22 AM
Just an addition; from this unfinished 2007 season back to 2000, the only team to have more seasons with top 5 rushing TDs than Denver is KC with 5 seasons. The only team to tie Denver with 4 seasons in the top 5 rushing TDs category is SD. And those 2 teams have had the best runningbacks in the game, LT and LJ, and before LJ, Priest. We've done it with Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, and Tatum Bell. That's pretty impressive. Others on the list had Shaun Alexander, Marshall Faulk, Jerome Bettis.

Looking back, though, the runningback makes a big difference. Mike Anderson and Clinton Portis were very effective getting TDs, while Tatum Bell wasn't nearly as good.

Simple Jaded
11-26-2007, 08:40 PM
The Broncos have all of 7 rushing TD's, 6 of them came from within the 20 yard line.

Henry week 3 from 6 yards out....Toss left.

Sapp week 2 from 4 yards out....Up the middle.

Cutler week 4 from 2 yards out....Up the middle.

Young week 10 from 20 yards out....Right end.

Hall week 12 from 16 yards out....Right end.

Sapp week 12 from 5 yards out....Option right end.

Out of these 6 TD's, only two were up the middle, the rest of them weren't even close.

As if 7 rushing TD's weren't weak enough, the fact that most of the ones they do have came outside the tackles makes it worse, imo.

This says a lot about the concerns I have with the Broncos offensive line, their lack of size and strength.

I could go back and find all the times they attempted runs between the tackles and failed, but who's got that kind of time?

And this doesn't include their ineptitude in short yardage situations.

Pass protection is a whole other thread, as I wasn't just talking about pass pro in the redzone.

You make good points, omac, but their success running the ball between the 20's only makes my frustrations with these situations even worse......

omac
11-26-2007, 09:49 PM
Link, I understand your frustrations, but everything you've mentioned has to do with this season, which has seen 2 of our best linemen out, and one of the best not the same since the injury. We have 3 guys on the line with minimal experience, and a veteran who's new with the Broncos. Add to that, our #1 RB hasn't been fully healthy most of the year.

When our line has been healthy, we've been among the league leaders in rushing TDs. Against the Bears, we had 2 rushing TDs in the red zone. Our last 3 games, we've had great individual performances by our #2 and #3 RBs. And as for pass protection, we're not doing too bad, being middle of the pack in times sacked, and not too far off from the best.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind some upgrades on the offensive line, but I'd rather focus first on the defensive line, specifically the tackles to stop the run.

Lonestar
11-26-2007, 11:51 PM
Link, I understand your frustrations, but everything you've mentioned has to do with this season, which has seen 2 of our best linemen out, and one of the best not the same since the injury. We have 3 guys on the line with minimal experience, and a veteran who's new with the Broncos. Add to that, our #1 RB hasn't been fully healthy most of the year.

When our line has been healthy, we've been among the league leaders in rushing TDs. Against the Bears, we had 2 rushing TDs in the red zone. Our last 3 games, we've had great individual performances by our #2 and #3 RBs. And as for pass protection, we're not doing too bad, being middle of the pack in times sacked, and not too far off from the best.

Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind some upgrades on the offensive line, but I'd rather focus first on the defensive line, specifically the tackles to stop the run.

I agree completely..:salute: