Paige: This act won't fly come regular season

[TXBRONC]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_13237246

woody paige
Paige: This act won't fly come regular season
By Woody Paige
The Denver Post
Posted: 08/31/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 08/31/2009 01:12:53 AM MDT

Cirque du KyleJoshJay turned out to be as eye-popping, spine-tingling and hair-raising as watching the man with a pail and a broom following the elephants.

In the three-ring circus of a game: Josh McDaniels' Denver debut was a disappointing dud; Kyle was Ordinary Orton again, then cut the index finger on his business hand; and, in the unkindest cut of all, Jay Cutler produced a 98-yard touchdown drive before halftime and proved to some of the 73,519 people in the neighborhood, but not the one in the hoodie, why he shouldn't have been traded.

The exhibition Sunday night was the most anticipated in Denver history, even more so than in 1967 when the Broncos played Detroit at (long gone) DU Stadium in the first interleague exhibition. The Lions' Alex Karras said if the NFL team lost to the AFL team, he would walk back to Detroit.

The Broncos won 13-7, and Broncos coach Lou Saban was carried off the field. Karras crawled off.

McDaniels was not carried off the field on Sunday evening. The Broncos lost their third exhibition, 27-17 to the Bears, and slinked away.

Cutler did not have to walk back to Chicago. After being booed like a medieval tax collector in the first half and completing 15-of-21 for 144 yards and one touchdown (and no interceptions), Cutler, last seen in this stadium playing for the home team, did not move off the sideline in the second half.

Kyle Orton, who completed 12-of-16 for 96 yards and no touchdowns (and without an interception for the first time in three games), did not come out of the locker room in the second half.

The former Bears and current Broncos quarterback departed the field with five minutes remaining in the first half with a bleeding finger. Orton apparently hurt the finger on some foreign object on third-and-2 when he tried to pass. The Broncos announced it was "an upper extremity injury" (per the club's new silly policy of trying to hide the extent of injuries), but McDaniels said at halftime the (fickle) finger (of fate) was not broken. Later both the coach and the quarterback refused to talk about the "there will be blood" finger, as if it never happened.

Will Ingle Martin end up as the opening-game starter at QB?

The circus came to town on Sunday, but the elephant not in the room was Brandon Marshall.

In his first exhibition appearance in Denver, Orton was no high-wire act.

Cutler wasn't very acrobatic early, then led the Bears on a 98-yard touchdown drive. That was not the most famous 98-yard drive in a game involving the Broncos. You'd have to go all the way back to a rather famous quarterback and a rather famous playoff game in Cleveland.

But this drive consumed 307 seconds, lasted until 0:13 before halftime and was very impressive — with Cutler hitting on seven passes, the last a 6-yard scoring toss to Matt Forte.

Orton, meanwhile, didn't throw a pick, unlike the four in the first two exhibitions, but the third try probably was his poorest overall performance. The Broncos' offense had a feeble field goal, and Orton threw the ball beyond 10 yards just once.

Cutler and Orton were finished at the half, and most of the crowd was too. No highlight video here.

At game's end, Cutler wandered into the mosh pit at midfield and greeted some of his ex-teammates, but never went over to shake hands or talk with McDaniels, who made no effort, either. In his gnarly postgame discussion, McDaniels, being juvenile, wouldn't mention Cutler's name and said of the game's atmosphere: "It certainly was more than a six on a scale of 1 to 10," a sarcastic reference to a recent quote comparing fans in Chicago and Denver.

Orton said of his injury, "Ask the coach." His first-team offensive unit has accounted for only one touchdown and just 13 points in approximately 6 1/2 quarters of work, and McDaniels is 0-3 as an exhibition coach, and 0-2 in a hoodie.

On a wonderful autumn night in August, there was expectation in the air. But an Orton-Cutler Aerial Show actually was Monty Python's Flying Circus.

The Broncos were called for holding on the first play, an ineligible receiver on their third play. Then Orton missed on a pass. No first downs.

The Bears had third-and-2 on their first possession, but Cutler's pass was off.

Cue the high-kicking Broncos and the dancing Bears. Nobody in a national TV audience was humming the score.

The Broncos had 10 penalties, one fumble, one interception, one more ugly exhibition.

In the first halves of three games the Broncos have been outscored 55-16. They don't have a fumble recovery or an interception yet. They have thrown five interceptions and fumbled three times.

McDaniels even admitted that the Broncos "cannot play like that and beat a good football team."

After the latest bland loss, the only happy person in Denver on Sunday night was Brandon Marshall. Cutler won for the first time in Denver since Dec. 7.

This work in progress should be more progressed by now. If the circus doesn't get better soon, send in the clowns.

Woody Paige: 303-954-1095 or wpaige@denverpost.com

[claymore]

Not the article you wanna read if you are trying to find the bright spots!

[TXBRONC]

Not the article you wanna read if you are trying to find the bright spots!

I suppose not, but I have little doubt it was going to end up on this forum one way or the other.

[NameUsedBefore]

Yikes.

[Dortoh]

So this is how the other half of NFL fans live. :tsk:

[TXBRONC]

So this is how the other half of NFL fans live. :tsk:

This doesn't define how I live. It's just article and as I said earlier it was going to end being posted on this sight one way of the other.

[Dortoh]

This doesn't define how I live. It's just article and as I said earlier it was going to end being posted on this sight one way of the other.

Of course its not how any of us "live" my point is more about how lucky we have been in Denver. I dont remember a season with so many negative situations arising at the same time. The likes of Detroit have seasons like this every year.

I wont miss a snap but am prepared for a long season.

[TXBRONC]

Of course its not how any of us "live" my point is more about how lucky we have been in Denver. I dont remember a season with so many negative situations arising at the same time. The likes of Detroit have seasons like this every year.

I wont miss a snap but am prepared for a long season.

Acht I'm sorry Dortoh. I thought you meant this a "shame on you" for posting the article.

[Dortoh]

Acht I'm sorry Dortoh. I thought you meant this a "shame on you" for posting the article.

Oh not at all sorry for the mix up :beer:

[topscribe]

Not the article you wanna read if you are trying to find the bright spots!

I never have found Woody overly astute in his analyses, but he was always
entertaining. Now, it seems, he's not so much even that, anymore . . .

-----

[topscribe]

Of course its not how any of us "live" my point is more about how lucky we have been in Denver. I dont remember a season with so many negative situations arising at the same time. The likes of Detroit have seasons like this every year.

I wont miss a snap but am prepared for a long season.

I went through the Broncos' first 14 season in the 1960s and early '70s. Trust
me, this situation would not even touch what we suffered with the Broncos
back then . . .

-----

[Dortoh]

I went through the Broncos' first 14 season in the 1960s and early '70s. Trust
me, this situation would not even touch what we suffered with the Broncos
back then . . .

-----

Damn you are old ;)

I've been a fan since around 1980 so thats all I can really base my opinon on but we have been spoiled with a really competative team for along time.

Just curious what in the article did you think is way off base?

[claymore]

I went through the Broncos' first 14 season in the 1960s and early '70s. Trust
me, this situation would not even touch what we suffered with the Broncos
back then . . .

-----

I think this offseason is the worst one any team has ever gone thru. (as for setting the team back years/decade, or decades) Thats why ive been so upset.

[topscribe]

Damn you are old ;)

I've been a fan since around 1980 so thats all I can really base my opinon on but we have been spoiled with a really competative team for along time.

Just curious what in the article did you think is way off base?

I have found Woody to be off base often in his writing, ever since way back
when I was reading his articles in the Rocky Mountain News. But I always found
him funny and entertaining. He seems to take himself more seriously now, which
is unfortunate.

Regarding this article, his allusion to Orton's "poor" performance, I thought, was
not accurate. Orton performed well when he was in there. He did not pass down
the field because the plays sent in did not call for it. The Bears were playing
the run and covering deep. That left the area underneath open, and Kyle took
advantage of it, completing 12 of 16, with one dropped pass.

What really killed the offense were four holding penalties and a false start. As
McDaniels said in his post game presser, you cannot expect to have constant
1st and 20s and 2nd and 15s, and be successful on offense.

I was happy with Orton's performance. With one exception, where he throw
behind the receiver, he was on the money and did well despite the running
game managing 1.1 YPC during that time.

-----

[Lancane]

Damn you are old ;)

I've been a fan since around 1980 so thats all I can really base my opinon on but we have been spoiled with a really competative team for along time.

Just curious what in the article did you think is way off base?

Top is very old, he walked with Moses and unfortunately even Jesus and his ability to resurrect could not help this team...lol. McDaniels 'McDuh' or Judas to some (Hahaha) has proven very little and his childish behavior and retarted disposition in regards to the organization are just dropping his stock more and more. I agree with Top, Paige is usually off analytically but I happen to agree with him on this. We are the laughing stock of the NFL and as a circus we are not even headliners, more like a sideshow!

[topscribe]

I think this offseason is the worst one any team has ever gone thru. (as for setting the team back years/decade, or decades) Thats why ive been so upset.

So what you are saying is that you went through those first 14 years with me, right?

-----

[Slick]

What exactly was Woody expecting? A well oiled Patriots offense in week 3 of pre-season?

Last night was the first action I've seen all year. They looked better than I thought they would. I thought the play calling was so so, and I'd like to see us take a shot down-field a couple times a game just to keep the defense honest.

If Marshall ever takes the field and Moreno runs up to his potential, we'll be better than last night.

[claymore]

So what you are saying is that you went through those first 14 years with me, right?

-----

Nope, but I have the DVD's. Its one thing to suck from the get go. Its another to find someone special (cutler) and trade him away because the coach couldnt concede to a kid just a little (by saying he wasnt tradeable).

[Lancane]

So what you are saying is that you went through those first 14 years with me, right?

-----

It was more like ten years Top...lol. 76' was a pretty good season as was 77', 78' and 79'...but it was horrid before then...lol.

[Dortoh]

Top is very old, he walked with Moses and unfortunately even Jesus and his ability to resurrect could not help this team...lol. McDaniels 'McDuh' or Judas to some (Hahaha) has proven very little and his childish behavior and retarted disposition in regards to the organization are just dropping his stock more and more. I agree with Top, Paige is usually off analytically but I happen to agree with him on this. We are the laughing stock of the NFL and as a circus we are not even headliners, more like a sideshow!

LMAO

I dont see it quite that bad but we do have alot of issues. Some of which are on McD's hands. The thing is he is here like it or not so I'm trying to give him some room to work (unlike last week when I was bashing him :)

I do like the new look on defense and think we have some good things to build on there and a few young future stars on offense so all is not lost. Well IMO this season is a loss as far as playoffs go but hopefully the team grows and so does coach McD.

The Cutler trade could be the eventual undoing of coach McD IMO unless Orton suddenly becomes a better qb (Bwahahahahahahaha)

[topscribe]

Nope, but I have the DVD's. Its one thing to suck from the get go. Its another to find someone special (cutler) and trade him away because the coach couldnt concede to a kid just a little (by saying he wasnt tradeable).

You have DVDs. Good for you. I lived it. Fourteen years. Fourteen long years.
When the Broncos played their first game on 9 September 1960, I was a snot-
nosed adolescent delivering the Rocky Mountain News every morning before
going to class at my junior high school.

When the Broncos had their first winning season, I was a married insurance
representative with four kids, two cars, and a boat.

But you have DVDs. You have no idea . . .

-----

[claymore]

You have DVDs. Good for you. I lived it. Fourteen years. Fourteen long years.
When the Broncos played their first game on 9 September 1960, I was a snot-
nosed adolescent delivering the Rocky Mountain News every morning before
going to class at my junior high school.

When the Broncos had their first winning season, I was a married insurance
representative with four kids, two cars, and a boat.

But you have DVDs. You have no idea . . .

-----
Oh, Ive owned a boat before. I dont recomend it.

[Lancane]

LMAO

I dont see it quite that bad but we do have alot of issues. Some of which are on McD's hands. The thing is he is here like it or not so I'm trying to give him some room to work (unlike last week when I was bashing him :)

I do like the new look on defense and think we have some good things to build on there and a few young future stars on offense so all is not lost. Well IMO this season is a loss as far as playoffs go but hopefully the team grows and so does coach McD.

The Cutler trade could be the eventual undoing of coach McD IMO unless Orton suddenly becomes a better qb (Bwahahahahahahaha)

Oh I do think it is that bad and if anyone saw the scowl which permeated on McDaniel's face on the sidelines last night would agree. His stock is crashing like the stockmarket before the recession...lol. Bowlen is being accused of being senile now and it stems to allowing McDaniels to do what he has done. Nearly every analyst and reporter is blasting the team, coach and the front office for incompetence. I would have given him room, but how can you justify what he has done? I can not...and yes, the defense is improving, but they are not stellar enough for a coat-tail quarterback like Orton to get us anywhere. But I understand where Top is coming from because up till 76' the Broncos were just awful, so looking at the idiocy compared to then is easier, but IMHO not by much!

[NightTrainLayne]

Nope, but I have the DVD's. Its one thing to suck from the get go. Its another to find someone special (cutler) and trade him away because the coach couldnt concede to a kid just a little (by saying he wasnt tradeable).

This is something I keep noticing.

McDaniels critics so often state as fact that McD lies so much that they can't trust him to tell the truth about anything. They don't buy any of his reasons or statements as to how the Cutler fiasco went down.

But. . .when they say what McD SHOULD have done to rectify the rift with Cutler, their first answer is that he should have lied to Cutler.

Odd.

[topscribe]

Top is very old, he walked with Moses and unfortunately even Jesus and his ability to resurrect could not help this team...lol. McDaniels 'McDuh' or Judas to some (Hahaha) has proven very little and his childish behavior and retarted disposition in regards to the organization are just dropping his stock more and more. I agree with Top, Paige is usually off analytically but I happen to agree with him on this. We are the laughing stock of the NFL and as a circus we are not even headliners, more like a sideshow!

Where you been, Cane? I ought to kick your ass for just wandering off and not
even coming around to say Hi once in while. And I would kick it if I could beat
my way out of a wet dream.

Regarding the article, I disagreed with Woody just on that one point. The
rest of my comment was based generally on his writing.

-----

[topscribe]

It was more like ten years Top...lol. 76' was a pretty good season as was 77', 78' and 79'...but it was horrid before then...lol.

Fourteen, Cane. 1960s, not 1970s. 1960 through 1973.

Kids. Sheesh. :tsk:

-----

[claymore]

This is something I keep noticing.

McDaniels critics so often state as fact that McD lies so much that they can't trust him to tell the truth about anything. They don't buy any of his reasons or statements as to how the Cutler fiasco went down.

But. . .when they say what McD SHOULD have done to rectify the rift with Cutler, their first answer is that he should have lied to Cutler.

Odd.

I never said lie. I said concede. Give the kid something. Its free, and would have been something to build trust off of.

I dont want a untrustworthy member of the Broncos period.

Especially the HC/Owner. I want an organization that players want to come to.

[Lancane]

Where you been, Cane? I ought to kick your ass for just wandering off and not
even coming around to say Hi once in while. And I would kick it if I could beat
my way out of a wet dream.

Regarding the article, I disagreed with Woody just on that one point. The
rest of my comment was based generally on his writing.

-----

Sorry old friend, I had to have major neck surgery - fused in several places, so I look like I have a bike chain welded on my upper spine; recovery has taken longer then expected due to scar tissue and I have some severe nerve damage, but I am better. Sorry it took so long to let you know, but I thought I told you~! Maybe I am going senile? That could be fun...lmfao.

[Lancane]

Fourteen, Cane. 1960s, not 1970s. 1960 through 1973.

Kids. Sheesh. :tsk:

-----

I am sorry I am not as old as you, sheesh! Sweat me because I did not have to walk across the sands or village to village...hahaha!

:laugh:

But I understood your point!

[NightTrainLayne]

I never said lie. I said concede. Give the kid something. Its free, and would have been something to build trust off of.

I dont want a untrustworthy member of the Broncos period.

Especially the HC/Owner. I want an organization that players want to come to.

But, in reality, it is a lie if McD feels that any player is tradeable for the right price, and that is probably true of 90% of the GMs in the league.

The right price might be such a high number that no-one would ever realistically meet it, but it would still be the truth that no player is untradeable, and a lie to state otherwise.

[Northman]

(as for setting the team back years/decade, or decades)

Unfortuantely dude, its WAY to early to try and say that.

[topscribe]

Sorry old friend, I had to have major neck surgery - fused in several places, so I look like I have a bike chain welded on my upper spine; recovery has taken longer then expected due to scar tissue and I have some severe nerve damage, but I am better. Sorry it took so long to let you know, but I thought I told you~! Maybe I am going senile? That could be fun...lmfao.

Wow, I didn't know, buddy. Damn sorry to hear that. Glad you're better now. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thnervous.gif

On another note, maybe I could whip you now . . . :D

-----

[Dortoh]

But, in reality, it is a lie if McD feels that any player is tradeable for the right price, and that is probably true of 90% of the GMs in the league.

The right price might be such a high number that no-one would ever realistically meet it, but it would still be the truth that no player is untradeable, and a lie to state otherwise.

IMO someone like Jay is infact untradeable period. On that point McD is out of his ******* mind.

[Lancane]

Wow, I didn't know, buddy. Damn sorry to hear that. Glad you're better now. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thnervous.gif

On another note, maybe I could whip you now . . . :D

-----

It's possible...lol. I thought you knew, but that is life. I actually am glad somewhat because the state of this team and the fandom is enough to cause unrestive pangs. I am not too happy about any of it, and hopefully something good happens, like Brandanstater becomes Brady overnight or some other unlikely miracle, one can hope. But that is another reason why I have stayed away.

[NightTrainLayne]

IMO someone like Jay is infact untradeable period. On that point McD is out of his ******* mind.

Ummm. . .he got traded. :D That kind of proves that he's tradeable.

:tongueincheek:

[claymore]

But, in reality, it is a lie if McD feels that any player is tradeable for the right price, and that is probably true of 90% of the GMs in the league.

The right price might be such a high number that no-one would ever realistically meet it, but it would still be the truth that no player is untradeable, and a lie to state otherwise.

Then he could have re-worded it allot better. Like, "if I get 2 years of draft picks, randy moss, and Tom brady, Im trading your ass! LOL! MMMkay?"

That would have been understandable to a resonable person.

I find it hard to believe that Jay Cutler is so impersonable that you cant get your point across to him by changing the approach.

Having said all that though, I would have lied. It would have been a safe lie because my trade demands would have been so high its ridiculous.

[topscribe]

IMO someone like Jay is infact untradeable period. On that point McD is out of his ******* mind.

I know what you mean. I have to keep consciously reminding myself that it is
now in the past. I believe McD is doing a good job now, but the Cutler deal is
one gaff that is hard to get out of one's craw . . . :sad:

-----

[claymore]

Unfortuantely dude, its WAY to early to try and say that.

Obviously I feel different.

[claymore]

Lets trade hillis for 2 7th round picks and a shitty FB.

[topscribe]

It's possible...lol. I thought you knew, but that is life. I actually am glad somewhat because the state of this team and the fandom is enough to cause unrestive pangs. I am not too happy about any of it, and hopefully something good happens, like Brandanstater becomes Brady overnight or some other unlikely miracle, one can hope. But that is another reason why I have stayed away.

That's no reason. You and I disagree a whole lot on the boards. Clay and I
disagree a lot, too, but we're still friends. I think it's because he knows I could
whip him.















*where is Clay, anyway?* :couch:



-----

[BigDaddyBronco]

I actually believe the rumor that McD was weary that Jay had a drinking problem. Why trust your franchise to a diabetic with a drinking problem, that is like playing Russian roulette.

[claymore]

I actually believe the rumor that McD was weary that Jay had a drinking problem. Why trust your franchise to a diabetic with a drinking problem, that is like playing Russian roulette.

90% of anyone that ever went to college had a drinking problem in there twenties. :werd:

[BigDaddyBronco]

90% of anyone that ever went to college had a drinking problem in there twenties. :werd:
Sure, and if you're a diabetic it's a good way to go into a coma.

Not great when the guy is your star QB and taking up a huge chunk of your salary cap.

[guitarj]

You have DVDs. Good for you. I lived it. Fourteen years. Fourteen long years.
When the Broncos played their first game on 9 September 1960, I was a snot-
nosed adolescent delivering the Rocky Mountain News every morning before
going to class at my junior high school.

When the Broncos had their first winning season, I was a married insurance
representative with four kids, two cars, and a boat.

But you have DVDs. You have no idea . . .

-----

As a child I remember the Broncos being so bad that my older bother and all his friends were fans of other teams....and seeing them idolize guys like Johnny Unites, and the purple people eaters.

Thank God though, by the time I was in middle school we were idolizing Rick Upchurch, Gradishar, and my favorite back then... Tom Jackson

[Lancane]

That's no reason. You and I disagree a whole lot on the boards. Clay and I
disagree a lot, too, but we're still friends. I think it's because he knows I could
whip him.











*where is Clay, anyway?* :couch:



-----

Hahaha...no my friend, I meant drugged up and stressing over the state of your favorite team, it tends to make healing or relaxing a bit impossible. But I am back, so now I will ***** and moan, and strike fear into other fans like my good old self!

:D

As far as McDuh, I agree with what you said about how it marred his good feats, whatever they were...but it would not have been so bad if he gave the fans a new focal point and not Orton, if I would have been that dumb to trade a franchise quarterback you better damn well believe I would have drafted Sanchez so the fans had some promise of a future, but Simms, Orton and Brandstater? Instead he drafts Moreno who I am high on but also Ayers and neither is really starting or giving great promise of things to come. It is a sad time to be a fan, or I believe.

[claymore]

Sure, and if you're a diabetic it's a good way to go into a coma.

Not great when the guy is your star QB and taking up a huge chunk of your salary cap.

That is the best of all Coma's though.

[silkamilkamonico]

It will be ugly, but it's all about organizational progress throughout the year and over a span of 2.

Progress is something this organization hasn't seen in about 10+ years.

If nothing changed over the offseason, we're still a marginal .500 team over the next 2-3 years. Let's see if this regime can take us to that next level when all is said and done.

That level we haven't seen in 10 + years.

[BigDaddyBronco]

That is the best of all Coma's though.
Foy Jay Jay maybe.

I'm going to die when the Bears end up 8 - 8 or 9-7 this year and Jay Jay has 4000 yards passing.

[topscribe]

I actually believe the rumor that McD was weary that Jay had a drinking problem. Why trust your franchise to a diabetic with a drinking problem, that is like playing Russian roulette.

You know what? I really do believe McD and Xanders only listened to offers
involving Cassel. I do not believe McD wanted to jettison Cutler. The incidents
as they occurred just do not suggest otherwise.

I believe Cutler flew off, having inflated the whole scenario in his own mind.
Then, after that meeting with McD, Cutler went away and never returned calls
again. He came to the meeting in a surly mood and a bad attitude, and
everything McD said only fueled the flames that had been simmering within
Cutler.

McD assured Cutler that McD would never guarantee Cutler would not be traded,
then he went on to tell Cutler that Cutler was a cog in the team, not a prima
donna, and that was the way it was going to be.

McD tried to soften his approach and make amends after that, but Cutler had
shut the door. And Bowlen summarily caved in to Cutler's demands . . . why
didn't they think of suspension in Cutler's case? They had him under contract,
too.

Anyway, that is my take, FWIW, right or wrong.

But now, Cutler is there. He is no longer here. And McD is doing a good job
now, IMO. I just wish that he were doing a good job with Cutler here. I really
do. But that is not the case.

What we have now is Kyle Orton. He is no Cutler, as we have heard ad
nauseam, but what I saw in my extensive research of him was a good QB. He
tanked in the first preseason game, but all reports have been that he has had
a fine preseason, and his last two games have been encouraging, at least for
me.

In Chicago, Cutler will drive the Bears. In Denver, the system will drive the
Broncos, with Orton competently at the helm. It worked in New England. It
can work here.

IMHO, FWIW, and all the other good acronyms . . .

-----

[Slick]

It will be ugly, but it's all about organizational progress throughout the year and over a span of 2.

Progress is something this organization hasn't seen in about 10+ years.

If nothing changed over the offseason, we're still a marginal .500 team over the next 2-3 years. Let's see if this regime can take us to that next level when all is said and done.

That level we haven't seen in 10 + years.

Exactly.

This team needed a MOAB dropped on it in order to get better IMO. I'll deal with the inexperience and losses if it gets us better in the long run.



...and some of you knuckleheads are worse than Collinsworth and Michaels last night. Why are we still crying over something we have no control over?

[Lancane]

You know what? I really do believe McD and Xanders only listened to offers
involving Cassel. I do not believe McD wanted to jettison Cutler. The incidents
as they occurred just do not suggest otherwise.

I believe Cutler flew off, having inflated the whole scenario in his own mind.
Then, after that meeting with McD, Cutler went away and never returned calls
again. He came to the meeting in a surly mood and a bad attitude, and
everything McD said only fueled the flames that had been simmering within
Cutler.

McD assured Cutler that McD would never guarantee Cutler would not be traded,
then he went on to tell Cutler that Cutler was a cog in the team, not a prima
donna, and that was the way it was going to be.

McD tried to soften his approach and make amends after that, but Cutler had
shut the door. And Bowlen summarily caved in to Cutler's demands . . . why
didn't they think of suspension in Cutler's case? They had him under contract,
too.

Anyway, that is my take, FWIW, right or wrong.

But now, Cutler is there. He is no longer here. And McD is doing a good job
now, IMO. I just wish that he were doing a good job with Cutler here. I really
do. But that is not the case.

What we have now is Kyle Orton. He is no Cutler, as we have heard ad
nauseam, but what I saw in my extensive research of him was a good QB. He
tanked in the first preseason game, but all reports have been that he has had
a fine preseason, and his last two games have been encouraging, at least for
me.

In Chicago, Cutler will drive the Bears. In Denver, the system will drive the
Broncos, with Orton competently at the helm. It worked in New England. It
can work here.

IMHO, FWIW, and all the other good acronyms . . .

-----

Ahhh the smell of optimism...

Whether or not Cutler was being a prima donna, even Brady has had his issues, same with Aikman, Kelley, Marino, Manning and even our beloved Elway, he cried to be traded, cried about Reeves trying to trade him and here Cutler was blasted? Sometimes you have to be less assertive in dealing with premier players who are the franchise and I think McDuh did not want to play second fiddle to him personally and so played the chess pieces in place to rid the team of him, it makes sense; Goodman, Bates are suddenly replaced by 'yes' men under more Ellis then Bowlen. This played out as a well played chess game should, he wanted to be the face, and suddenly Cutler is gone and Marshall is nothing but trouble, there is such a thing as too convinient.

And then he does not draft a franchise like player such as Sanchez when he could have, instead he goes with a late draft pick and two questionable veterans. To me this is showing his insecurity and so he killed the team to make him feel that he was needed, he was the face of the team...unfortunately it backfired and he looks like a joke of a coach.

[Dortoh]

Ahhh the smell of optimism...

Whether or not Cutler was being a prima donna, even Brady has had his issues, same with Aikman, Kelley, Marino, Manning and even our beloved Elway, he cried to be traded, cried about Reeves trying to trade him and here Cutler was blasted? Sometimes you have to be less assertive in dealing with premier players who are the franchise and I think McDuh did not want to play second fiddle to him personally and so played the chess pieces in place to rid the team of him, it makes sense; Goodman, Bates are suddenly replaced by 'yes' men under more Ellis then Bowlen. This played out as a well played chess game should, he wanted to be the face, and suddenly Cutler is gone and Marshall is nothing but trouble, there is such a thing as too convinient.

And then he does not draft a franchise like player such as Sanchez when he could have, instead he goes with a late draft pick and two questionable veterans. To me this is showing his insecurity and so he killed the team to make him feel that he was needed, he was the face of the team...unfortunately it backfired and he looks like a joke of a coach.

Ouch thats going to leave a mark :salute:

[silkamilkamonico]

Ahhh the smell of optimism...

Whether or not Cutler was being a prima donna, even Brady has had his issues, same with Aikman, Kelley, Marino, Manning and even our beloved Elway, he cried to be traded, cried about Reeves trying to trade him and here Cutler was blasted? Sometimes you have to be less assertive in dealing with premier players who are the franchise and I think McDuh did not want to play second fiddle to him personally and so played the chess pieces in place to rid the team of him, it makes sense; Goodman, Bates are suddenly replaced by 'yes' men under more Ellis then Bowlen. This played out as a well played chess game should, he wanted to be the face, and suddenly Cutler is gone and Marshall is nothing but trouble, there is such a thing as too convinient.

Cutler held himself higher than the organization. The only QB you listed to do that was Elway....who was traded.

It's amazing how some of you people fail to understand that.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

McDaniels isn't a joke of a coach because he didn't take Dirty Sanchez in the first-round. It is quite obvious that Denver wasn't interested in moving up into the top ten to pay that kind of money out for a player. I'm fine with drafting Knowshon The Franchise Moreno. We received a quarterback in return via the Chicago trade, and it was McDaniels belief that he'd be our guy going into the season. Not getting a viable (assumed) replacement for Cutler yet doesn't make McDaniels a failure. If the Broncos struggle mightily at the position this year, it is a no-brainer where they will look early next year to get a winner.

[Lancane]

Cutler held himself higher than the organization. The only QB you listed to do that was Elway....who was traded.

It's amazing how some of you people fail to understand that.

Really? Manning or Aikman did not blast their teammates like a prima donna, or Kelley blasting the organization, Marino crying about how they lacked adding talent, Brady whining about people in his affairs...lol. Funny how a blindman drowns like anyone else when he walks into a lake!

Franchise players are not so common silk, anyone which any amount of sense knows that, so you do not treat them as you do a second rate linebacker...

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I'm not sure how Jay Cutler was treated like a second rate player. Being mentioned in trade talks? Sorry. The NFL is a business. I don't think people can even begin to realize how often talks like this happen for very good to star quality players. Everyone is in the business of getting better. That isn't treating Jay second rate. That is McDaniels doing his job.

[silkamilkamonico]

Really? Manning or Aikman did not blast their teammates like a prima donna, or Kelley blasting the organization, Marino crying about how they lacked adding talent, Brady whining about people in his affairs...lol. Funny how a blindman drowns like anyone else when he walks into a lake!

Franchise players are not so common silk, anyone which any amount of sense knows that, so you do not treat them as you do a second rate linebacker...

No, they did not completely blow off the owner of their organization in the situations. Blowing off teammates or being unhappy about players? Whoopy-fn-do. Blowing off the owner of the organization that made you "the franchise", that's a no-no.

Big significant difference between players, and the owner, in who you choose to go 7th grade on.

[Gimpygod]

So what you are saying is that you went through those first 14 years with me, right?

-----

My dad did and he wants me to tell you it's different. We were a fledgling team picking up scrap players here and there with an occasional gem, Floyd Little for instance.. He said it was hard but entertaining because it was us against them. Now it's more us against us and them against us. McDaniels has that, "cut off your nose to spite your face," type of arrogance And has set this team back so far even players we like will be long retired before we recover. Honestly you root for players and not systems. who wantss a Jersey that says, "System?"

[OrangeHoof]

The one inescapable fact about Cutler's 98-yard drive is he completed several passes on that drive that I can't picture Orton doing. Cutler squeezed in some throws that required Cutler's arm strength. Orton can't complete those passes.

That's what we traded away and that's why there's lingering resentment about it.

[Northman]

My dad did and he wants me to tell you it's different. We were a fledgling team picking up scrap players here and there with an occasional gem, Floyd Little for instance.. He said it was hard but entertaining because it was us against them. Now it's more us against us and them against us. McDaniels has that, "cut off your nose to spite your face," type of arrogance And has set this team back so far even players we like will be long retired before we recover. Honestly you root for players and not systems. who wantss a Jersey that says, "System?"


I root for the jersey that says "Broncos".

[Gimpygod]

You have DVDs. Good for you. I lived it. Fourteen years. Fourteen long years.
When the Broncos played their first game on 9 September 1960, I was a snot-
nosed adolescent delivering the Rocky Mountain News every morning before
going to class at my junior high school.

When the Broncos had their first winning season, I was a married insurance
representative with four kids, two cars, and a boat.

But you have DVDs. You have no idea . . .

-----

SSorry but I think the guy with the DVDs has a better recollection. It's not like you were in the huddle, you are watching them on TV(maybe)and you were a kid with limited knowledge and life experience and even that very narrow view has been hazed bby 50 years of nostalgia. DVDs have better fidelity than childhood recollection.

[topscribe]

My dad did and he wants me to tell you it's different. We were a fledgling team picking up scrap players here and there with an occasional gem, Floyd Little for instance.. He said it was hard but entertaining because it was us against them. Now it's more us against us and them against us. McDaniels has that, "cut off your nose to spite your face," type of arrogance And has set this team back so far even players we like will be long retired before we recover. Honestly you root for players and not systems. who wantss a Jersey that says, "System?"

That's right: It is different.

I know what all my friends and I went through during those 14 years. Only
those who lived it know what it was. Some think it's all doom and gloom
now. Well, some have no idea . . .

-----

[Nature Boy]

I root for the jersey that says "Broncos".


It's too bad McDanials wears a hooded sweat shirt with a Broncos logo on it.

I bet Pat Bowlen is hitting himself over hsi head with his own boot. I bet Mike Shanahan is soaking it all in under the warm sun sipping on a margarita paid for by his $7mil a year paycheck.

.

[topscribe]

SSorry but I think the guy with the DVDs has a better recollection. It's not like you were in the huddle, you are watching them on TV(maybe)and you were a kid with limited knowledge and life experience and even that very narrow view has been hazed bby 50 years of nostalgia. DVDs have better fidelity than childhood recollection.

I'll tell you what: you provide me of some home movies of your family. I will view
them, then I will know more about your family than you do.

How's that sound?

Wow, I don't know where some people get such ideas . . . :tsk:

-----

[claymore]

That's right: It is different.

I know what all my friends and I went through during those 14 years. Only
those who lived it know what it was. Some think it's all doom and gloom
now. Well, some have no idea . . .

-----

I hear the Andy Griffith song every time you post about your childhood.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I hear the Andy Griffith song every time you post about your childhood.

I bet you whistle along too. Wait, you never learned how to whistle did you Clay? :lol:

[Gimpygod]

But, in reality, it is a lie if McD feels that any player is tradeable for the right price, and that is probably true of 90% of the GMs in the league.

The right price might be such a high number that no-one would ever realistically meet it, but it would still be the truth that no player is untradeable, and a lie to state otherwise.

Great! So the one time the guy won't lie is over a technical issue? Yes, you would probably trade any player for an entire defense hand-picked from every team in the league... never will happen or even be an opportunity but you should definitely stick to your guns even if it means losing the best player and the best chance you have it winning. Keeping in mind one of the ways you can tell McDaniels is lying is because his lips are moving. You will have an example of this when we find out over the next few days that Orton is out for the foreseeable future because of his finger. He looked at that thing in shock and then said you'd have to ask the coach about the condition of his finger... not something you would have to do if it was merely a cut. Yet McDaniels said it was nothing and definitely not serious, just wait McDaniels apologists you're going to love this one.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Lance Carr, you are on fire today. What put the pep in your step? A little Dr. Pepper goes a long way each day, homie. Keep up the great posts.

[claymore]

I bet you whistle along too. Wait, you never learned how to whistle did you Clay? :lol:

:afraid:

[claymore]

Great! So the one time the guy won't lie is over a technical issue? Yes, you would probably trade any player for an entire defense hand-picked from every team in the league... never will happen or even be an opportunity but you should definitely stick to your guns even if it means losing the best player and the best chance you have it winning. Keeping in mind one of the ways you can tell McDaniels is lying is because his lips are moving. You will have an example of this when we find out over the next few days that Orton is out for the foreseeable future because of his finger. He looked at that thing in shock and then said you'd have to ask the coach about the condition of his finger... not something you would have to do if it was merely a cut. Yet McDaniels said it was nothing and definitely not serious, just wait McDaniels apologists you're going to love this one.

If Orton is out for the forseeable future, I dont think the overall talent of the team goes down. So McDaniels is technically correct. It isnt a big deal. :D

[Ravage!!!]

I hear the Andy Griffith song every time you post about your childhood.

Do you see it in black-n-white too? :listen:

[Gimpygod]

I'll tell you what: you provide me of some home movies of your family. I will view
them, then I will know more about your family than you do.

How's that sound?

Wow, I don't know where some people get such ideas . . . :tsk:

-----

Except your recollection of the Broncos is the home movies, you only saw the stuff on television. I'm saying that Your remembrances of watching the home videos some 40 years after the fact is inferior to actually possessing the home videos and analyzing them in the present.

[Nature Boy]

If Orton is out for the forseeable future, I dont think the overall talent of the team goes down. So McDaniels is technically correct. It isnt a big deal. :D

What is Jake Plummer doing these days?

.

[claymore]

What is Jake Plummer doing these days?

.

Flippin people off in the private sector me thinks.

[Nature Boy]

Flippin people off in the private sector me thinks.


He's a better QB than Kyle Orton me thinks.

.

[Nature Boy]

Bring back Plummer! We back Plummer! Bring back Plummer!

We need him now!

.

[silkamilkamonico]

I bet Pat Bowlen is hitting himself over hsi head with his own boot. I bet Mike Shanahan is soaking it all in under the warm sun sipping on a margarita paid for by his $7mil a year paycheck.

.

I'm sure. Paying Mike Shanahan all that money to turn us into the Cincinatti Bengals v. 2.0 minus the team character problems has left this organization in a terrible place.

[Gimpygod]

If Orton is out for the forseeable future, I dont think the overall talent of the team goes down. So McDaniels is technically correct. It isnt a big deal. :D

Good point! I sit corrected, sir... mostly because I can't stand corrected. I know you have an irrational fear of albinos (most likely brought about by an episode of the X-Files) but I am really looking forward to seeing Chris Simms. I like his accuracy better and he had his freaking spleen blown up and played through whereas Kyle looked at his finger like it was possessed and held it upto show the sideline... still not sure what the hell that was about. In football you are supposed to throw some mud on it and walk off the field like nothing happened.

[topscribe]

I hear the Andy Griffith song every time you post about your childhood.

I just don't know why what I said should raise such a controversy. I merely
mentioned that what we are going through today does not equate to 14 straight
years of being an absolute doormat, a rest stop for other teams on their way
to the next game, essentially a bye week for them.

Think back to 14 years ago. Where were you? What were you doing? Who was
President? What were the new cars like coming out? What kind of music was
popular? Fourteen years is a long time to wait simply for a winning season.

We had Lionel Taylor. Then we had Floyd Little. No championships in our
memories. Not often even two wins in a row. One QB after another. One HC
after another. I don't even know why I watched some of those games: They
weren't fun, a lot of them. It was a weekly massacre. Same thing, week after
week. Today, we don't know what to expect . . . we sure as hell knew what
to expect back then because it happened nearly every week.

Nope . . . this is nothing like that back then. Nothing. :tsk:

-----

[Tempus Fugit]

IMO someone like Jay is infact untradeable period. On that point McD is out of his ******* mind.

If New England or Indianapolis offered a 1-for-1 QB trade, only the most ridiculously blind homers wouldn't make that trade and have the deal faxed to the NFL offices in 2 minutes, just in case Belichick or Polian sobered up.

And that's just the most obvious pair of examples.

Rivers
Roethlisberger
Brees

You trade Cutler for them before their GMs can change their minds, too, and we're still just working down the 1-to-1 QB list. We're not even delving into adding picks here, yet.

The Cutler love here by some people is just ridiculous. It's not about individual players, people, it's about winning teams.

[Slick]

The one inescapable fact about Cutler's 98-yard drive is he completed several passes on that drive that I can't picture Orton doing. Cutler squeezed in some throws that required Cutler's arm strength. Orton can't complete those passes.

That's what we traded away and that's why there's lingering resentment about it.

My point was that the lingering resentment does no good for anyone. How we feel about it means nothing. It's a waste of time and energy.

[Gimpygod]

Sorry old friend, I had to have major neck surgery - fused in several places, so I look like I have a bike chain welded on my upper spine; recovery has taken longer then expected due to scar tissue and I have some severe nerve damage, but I am better. Sorry it took so long to let you know, but I thought I told you~! Maybe I am going senile? That could be fun...lmfao.

Hey! We are kind of like weird twins, all of my metal bike chain stuff goes from my neck down to my hips. Did they have to remove your disks as well? Some of my nerve damage stuff is in a weird spot... to bring this back on topic I blame McDaniels for this as well:eek:

[Nature Boy]

My point was that the lingering resentment does no good for anyone. How we feel about it means nothing. It's a waste of time and energy.


It means a lot when you're a die hard Broncos fan who does not want to sit idly by sipping on some bitter coolaid while your team is turned into the laughing stock of the NFL overnight.

.

[Dortoh]

If New England or Indianapolis offered a 1-for-1 QB trade, only the most ridiculously blind homers wouldn't make that trade and have the deal faxed to the NFL offices in 2 minutes, just in case Belichick or Polian sobered up.

And that's just the most obvious pair of examples.

Rivers
Roethlisberger
Brees

You trade Cutler for them before their GMs can change their minds, too, and we're still just working down the 1-to-1 QB list. We're not even delving into adding picks here, yet.

The Cutler love here by some people is just ridiculous. It's not about individual players, people, it's about winning teams.

And back here in reality :laugh:

[Tempus Fugit]

And back here in reality :laugh:

Anyone thinking that Cutler is better than any of the QBs I listed has no grasp on football reality.

[Dortoh]

Anyone thinking that Cutler is better than any of the QBs I listed has no grasp on football reality.


Once again you fail to follow reasonable thought.

NOBODY is going to offer to trade us any of the above named QBS......you know why because like Jay they are UNTRADEABLE

[Slick]

It means a lot when you're a die hard Broncos fan who does not want to sit idly by sipping on some bitter coolaid while your team is turned into the laughing stock of the NFL overnight.

.

I guess I'm not as diehard as you Nature.

[Nature Boy]

Anyone thinking that Cutler is better than any of the QBs I listed has no grasp on football reality.

I'd take Cutler over any of the 3 QBs you just mentioned. Especially Rivers.

Reason anyone would think that Rivers, Brees and Rothfinburger is better is because they play for better teams with much better supporting cast. Brees' defense isn't as great as the other 2 but it's better than the Broncos last year.

So in other words, you failed! in your attempt.

.

[Nature Boy]

I guess I'm not as diehard as you Nature.

Apparently not or your football intuition just isn't up to par because you failed to see the mistakes Pat Bowlen has made and especially Mickey Mouse and you're just gulping down all that bitter coolaid.

.

[BCJ]

I dont like the "poor" performance given to Orton by Paige. He should have stated to "poor" performance of keeping penalties off of the offensive scheme. Orton played much better and Cutler looked like, well Cutler. Yes, I am worried about the team but if this is the stepping stone for seasons that aren't .500, then I am patient. Not sure how patient I will be with Orton but if someone can bring him to a working system that he can thrive on, I will trust it with McDaniels.

[Tempus Fugit]

Once again to fail to follow reasonable thought.

NOBODY is going to offer to trade us any of the above named QBS......you know why because like Jay they are UNTRADEABLE

I was following reasonable thought. You're making an obviously incorrect assumption.

Cutler WAS traded. What you claim as untradeable is nothing of the kind. Hell, Brees wasn't only not "untradeable", he was allowed to just walk away by the Chargers.

[claymore]

I just don't know why what I said should raise such a controversy. I merely
mentioned that what we are going through today does not equate to 14 straight
years of being an absolute doormat, a rest stop for other teams on their way
to the next game, essentially a bye week for them.

Think back to 14 years ago. Where were you? What were you doing? Who was
President? What were the new cars like coming out? What kind of music was
popular? Fourteen years is a long time to wait simply for a winning season.

We had Lionel Taylor. Then we had Floyd Little. No championships in our
memories. Not often even two wins in a row. One QB after another. One HC
after another. I don't even know why I watched some of those games: They
weren't fun, a lot of them. It was a weekly massacre. Same thing, week after
week. Today, we don't know what to expect . . . we sure as hell knew what
to expect back then because it happened nearly every week.

Nope . . . this is nothing like that back then. Nothing. :tsk:

-----
I think it is worse because we chose an unproven coach over a extremely rare QB prospect.

If New England or Indianapolis offered a 1-for-1 QB trade, only the most ridiculously blind homers wouldn't make that trade and have the deal faxed to the NFL offices in 2 minutes, just in case Belichick or Polian sobered up.

And that's just the most obvious pair of examples.

Rivers
Roethlisberger
Brees

You trade Cutler for them before their GMs can change their minds, too, and we're still just working down the 1-to-1 QB list. We're not even delving into adding picks here, yet.

The Cutler love here by some people is just ridiculous. It's not about individual players, people, it's about winning teams.

The Cutler love is for a reason. Sorry you missed it. Cutler is better than all three of those QB's. Im sorry we didnt have him longer than we did.

[Dortoh]

I was following reasonable thought. You're making an obviously incorrect assumption.

Cutler WAS traded. What you claim as untradeable is nothing of the kind. Hell, Brees wasn't only not "untradeable", he was allowed to just walk away by the Chargers.

And that is the problem right there.

[Tempus Fugit]

I'd take Cutler over any of the 3 QBs you just mentioned. Especially Rivers.

Reason anyone would think that Rivers, Brees and Rothfinburger is better is because they play for better teams with much better supporting cast. Brees' defense isn't as great as the other 2 but it's better than the Broncos last year.

So in other words, you failed! in your attempt.

.

Not at all. You're a perfect example of the type of person I was talking about.

[claymore]

I was following reasonable thought. You're making an obviously incorrect assumption.

Cutler WAS traded. What you claim as untradeable is nothing of the kind. Hell, Brees wasn't only not "untradeable", he was allowed to just walk away by the Chargers.

Which supports our agument that JMCD is terrible for this organization. No one has ever made such a stoopid trade.

[Tempus Fugit]

And that is the problem right there.

No, it's not.

[Tempus Fugit]

Which supports our agument that JMCD is terrible for this organization. No one has ever made such a stoopid trade.

Your argument has been terrible from the beginning, and this doesn't support it in any way.

[claymore]

Your argument has been terrible from the beginning, and this doesn't support it in any way.

We saw your argument last night.

[Dortoh]

No, it's not.

I think you need to put IMO or IMHO in that post somewhere. Isnt that what you were telling me last week?

[Slick]

Apparently not or your football intuition just isn't up to par because you failed to see the mistakes Pat Bowlen has made and especially Mickey Mouse and you're just gulping down all that bitter coolaid.

.
Don't e-insult me Boi. If you didn't think this team needed an complete overhaul you were drunk on Shanahan's man juice. I agree with you, and those who think we shouldn't have dealt Cultler, However, what can we do about it at this point? All the bitching in the world won't change anything.

[Tempus Fugit]

I think it is worse because we chose an unproven coach over a extremely rare QB prospect.


The Cutler love is for a reason. Sorry you missed it. Cutler is better than all three of those QB's. Im sorry we didnt have him longer than we did.

Thanks for showing that you're another one. Claiming that Cutler is better than those 3 QBs.......

Pure. Comedy. Gold.

[Tempus Fugit]

We saw your argument last night.

No, you didn't. You saw a preseason game and you acted like a petulant child.

That's all.

[Dortoh]

Im starting to think Kyle Ortons mother is a member of the forums.

[Nature Boy]

Not at all. You're a perfect example of the type of person I was talking about.


And you're the perfect example of the bitter coolaid drinkers I'm talking about.

You'll all be proven wrong by week 10 when the Broncos have yet to win a game. McDanials will be tossed out of town by his teeth with his tail tucked.

If I were a player of Champ Bailey's caliber, I would be demanding for a trade after this season because he's not getting any younger and he deserves a Super Bowl Ring.

.

[Nature Boy]

Don't e-insult me Boi. If you didn't think this team needed an complete overhaul you were drunk on Shanahan's man juice. I agree with you, and those who think we shouldn't have dealt Cultler, However, what can we do about it at this point? All the bitching in the world won't change anything.


I'ma bitch til this Coach Douchebag egomaniac kid who cause the biggest fiasco in NFL history to be replaced by a real coach.

.

[claymore]

No, you didn't. You saw a preseason game and you acted like a petulant child.

That's all.

Get off of Plummers nuts for 5 minutes.

[claymore]

And you're the perfect example of the bitter coolaid drinkers I'm talking about.

You'll all be proven wrong by week 10 when the Broncos have yet to win a game. McDanials will be tossed out of town by his teeth with his tail tucked.

If I were a player of Champ Bailey's caliber, I would be demanding for a trade after this season because he's not getting any younger and he deserves a Super Bowl Ring.

.

He's been proven wrong. This experiment has been a disaster.

[Slick]

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w309/slickdonkey7/0060-0807-3002-2211_Baby_Crying_cli.jpg

[Nature Boy]

Don't e-insult me Boi. If you didn't think this team needed an complete overhaul you were drunk on Shanahan's man juice. I agree with you, and those who think we shouldn't have dealt Cultler, However, what can we do about it at this point? All the bitching in the world won't change anything.


If you're gonna make an overhaul of your team, a wise person would think that it's for the better not to take the team on a nose dive down into the bottom of the NFL trash heap next to the Detroit Lions. As it looks now, the Lions are in a better shape than the Broncos.

Did I forget to mention that our 1st round draft selection which is sure to be a top 3-5 pick will go to the Seattle Seahawks? All of which is thanks to the idiot egomaniac douchebag head coach of ours who thinks his playbook and system is better than the players needed to run it. He thinks he can win with Orton at QB minus B. Marshall.

Apparently he forget that he had Brady, Moss, Moroney, Welker, etc executing those plays.

.

[Dortoh]

If you're gonna make an overhaul of your team, a wise person would think that it's for the better not to take the team on a nose dive down into the bottom of the NFL trash heap next to the Detroit Lions. As it looks now, the Lions are in a better shape than the Broncos.

Did I forget to mention that our 1st round draft selection which is sure to be a top 3-5 pick will go to the Seattle Seahawks? All of which is thanks to the idiot egomaniac douchebag head coach of ours who thinks his playbook and system is better than the players needed to run it. He thinks he can win with Orton at QB minus B. Marshall.

Apparently he forget that he had Brady, Moss, Moroney, Welker, etc executing those plays.

.

Thats a bit harsh we did after all get a smallish nickel corner in this years draft so we got that going for us :laugh:

Actually I like the kid he just might pan out after all

[TXBRONC]

Thats a bit harsh we did after all get a smallish nickel corner in this years draft so we got that going for us :laugh:

Actually I like the kid he just might pan out after all

I agree Smith may very well prove to be a solid corner but he's not an impact player at this point.

[Nature Boy]

Thats a bit harsh we did after all get a smallish nickel corner in this years draft so we got that going for us :laugh:

Actually I like the kid he just might pan out after all


Let's hope Alphonso Smith pans out and becomes a pro-bowler but as it looks now, he could have been replace by some middle of the run 2-3 yr contract CB of free agency.

Alphonso Smith is far from equivalent to a top 3-5 overall pick in the 2010 draft.

That's all I'm saying.

.

[G_Money]

Since we could have drafted Eric Berry there....yeah.

I do like Phonz, as a nickel guy with #2 potential.

I just hate the idea of our season tanking and losing out on our NT/S/LB/QB of the future because of drafting him.

Still, if Phonz CAN play it's not a wasted pick. Our QB of the future that we'd draft there could wind up being Akili Smith-like. Mount Cody could fall flat on his 370 pound ass.

Just work out, Phonz. And make sure whoever the Hawks pick with our likely-high draftpick is a sucker. :lol:

~G

[CoachChaz]

Let's hope Alphonso Smith pans out and becomes a pro-bowler but as it looks now, he could have been replace by some middle of the run 2-3 yr contract CB of free agency.

Alphonso Smith is far from equivalent to a top 3-5 overall pick in the 2010 draft.

That's all I'm saying.

.

Becasue it's expected for a DB to come in and immediately be amazing and we know it'll be a top 5 pick. Run your mouth when you have a clue

[topscribe]

I think it is worse because we chose an unproven coach over a extremely rare QB prospect.


You're kidding, right? Playing devil's advocate? Because you can't be serious.

We never had a good QB to trade. We didn't know what a good QB was, after
Tripucka left. From Slaughter to Lee to McCormick to Choboian to Tensi to Liske
to Ramsey, and a bunch of them I haven't mentioned, the Broncos went through
QBs like a Hummer goes through gasoline.

Moreover, all we had were unproven . . . or proven bad . . . coaches. Coaches
got fired, but no one who had won any championships, ala Shanahan.

And the Broncos didn't have an O-line or D-line . . . hell, I'm not sure they had
a telephone line.

DVDs will not tell you what we went through back then. But my point in this
has been entirely lost through all this ignorant nonsense about DVDs. My
point is that you will hear less whining and moaning over this team from us
who did experience that than those who did not. And you will never hear us
threatening to leave the team because of a QB or a coach. (I'm not talking
about you here, Clay.)

We have it good, compared to back then, even now.

I can't believe this . . . :tsk:

-----

[Gimpygod]

Foy Jay Jay maybe.

I'm going to die when the Bears end up 8 - 8 or 9-7 this year and Jay Jay has 4000 yards passing.

which will absolutely eclipse our four and 12 record with three quarterbacks who won't have that many yards combined:confused:.. of course the Bears will do better because they dramatically improve their position at quarterback

[TXBRONC]

which will absolutely eclipse our four and 12 record with three quarterbacks who won't have that many yards combined:confused:.. of course the Bears will do better because they dramatically improve their position at quarterback

But they have a terrible receiving corp and old and useless defense. It's not like we've ever seen what a gifted quarterback can do with a less than impress set of receivers.

[Nature Boy]

Becasue it's expected for a DB to come in and immediately be amazing and we know it'll be a top 5 pick. Run your mouth when you have a clue


Let's just say if you're gonna trade in a top 5 pick of next yr for a player now, let's make sure the guy can even start.

Do you think A. Smith is worth a top 5 of the 2010 draft?

Think and make some sense next time you scatter your verbage.

.

[CoachChaz]

Let's just say if you're gonna trade in a top 5 pick of next yr for a player now, let's make sure the guy can even start.

Do you think A. Smith is worth a top 5 of the 2010 draft?

Think and make some sense next time you scatter your verbage.

.

When its PROVEN we would have had a top 5 pick, I'll consider it a possibility. In the meantime...good luck

[Gimpygod]

Really? Manning or Aikman did not blast their teammates like a prima donna, or Kelley blasting the organization, Marino crying about how they lacked adding talent, Brady whining about people in his affairs...lol. Funny how a blindman drowns like anyone else when he walks into a lake!

Franchise players are not so common silk, anyone which any amount of sense knows that, so you do not treat them as you do a second rate linebacker...

Don't take this wrong but after only a few posts of getting to know you... I just can't quit you man! In a totally macho, punch you in the face if you say differently kind of way. (If I could actually punch).

[TXBRONC]

Don't take this wrong but after only a few posts of getting to know you... I just can't quit you man! In a totally macho, punch you in the face if you say differently kind of way. (If I could actually punch).

:lol:

[Gimpygod]

I'm not sure how Jay Cutler was treated like a second rate player. Being mentioned in trade talks? Sorry. The NFL is a business. I don't think people can even begin to realize how often talks like this happen for very good to star quality players. Everyone is in the business of getting better. That isn't treating Jay second rate. That is McDaniels doing his job.

Yeah buddy! Replacing Cutler with Cassel is definitely striving to make your team better... or maybe it's hard-core, cutting-edge cronyism. he would make the 10th text New England Patriots on the roster by the way.

[Nature Boy]

When its PROVEN we would have had a top 5 pick, I'll consider it a possibility. In the meantime...good luck

I'm smart enough to make an educated guess just like how I predicted that firing Mike Shanahan and hiring Coach McDouchebag would be disastrous and my educated guess is, A. Smith will not become a great CB. He was tossed around and burned like a 7th round 5th string CB yesterday by 4th and 5th string WRs.

I really do hope Alphonso Smith can be a main stay Pro-Bowl corner for us but from what I seeing so far, he is not worth the trade we made for him with Seattle, a for sure top3-5 overall pick.

I hope this ends your questioning.

.

[Gimpygod]

Lance Carr, you are on fire today. What put the pep in your step? A little Dr. Pepper goes a long way each day, homie. Keep up the great posts.

I'm taking some bad beats at poker... that's putting a little chili pepper in my underpants as well =)

[TXBRONC]

Yeah buddy! Replacing Cutler with Cassel is definitely striving to make your team better... or maybe it's hard-core, cutting-edge cronyism. he would make the 10th text New England Patriots on the roster by the way.

Cassel's former teammate Rodney Harrison said he didn't understand why McDaniels would want to trade Cutler for a career backup quarterback.

[TXBRONC]

I'm taking some bad beats at poker... that's putting a little chili pepper in my underpants as well =)

That's way more information than we needed Lance. :eek:

[G_Money]

We'd have to tank beyond tanking to get a top-5. 4-12 was the cutoff for a top-5 pick last year.

6-10 or 7-9 (where I expect to be) would get us the #9-11 pick last year. I still consider that a pretty damn high draftpick, but it's not top 5.

Still too high to draft Phonz, IMO, but there are plenty of blown picks in that range too. Just as long as Smith isn't a blown pick it's plenty survivable, even though there are plenty of players I'd like in that range.

We'll see if he can surpass Goodman in the next year or so. I'd like to see it. If not, it had better be because Goodman is just superlative...

~G

[Nature Boy]

Cassel's former teammate Rodney Harrison said he didn't understand why McDaniels would want to trade Cutler for a career backup quarterback.


Do you have an exact quote and link to it? That would be awesome if he really said that.

.

[TXBRONC]

Do you have an exact quote and link to it? That would be awesome if he really said that.

.

It was the interview that Michael's did with Harrison during the game so sorry I don't have link for ya.

[topscribe]

Cassel's former teammate Rodney Harrison said he didn't understand why McDaniels would want to trade Cutler for a career backup quarterback.

Which is why I believed McD in this instance when he said he and Xanders only
listened to offers. I cannot believe they were so dumb as to want Cassel over
Cutler. That assumption is the product of the media and, while we don't know
for sure, is not fact, IMO.

I just believe everything got blown out of proportion afterward, and it was a
young coach not knowing how to handle a petulant QB vs. a petulant QB too
immature to understand a young coach, if that makes any sense . . .

-----

[Nature Boy]

We'd have to tank beyond tanking to get a top-5. 4-12 was the cutoff for a top-5 pick last year.

6-10 or 7-9 (where I expect to be) would get us the #9-11 pick last year. I still consider that a pretty damn high draftpick, but it's not top 5.

Still too high to draft Phonz, IMO, but there are plenty of blown picks in that range too. Just as long as Smith isn't a blown pick it's plenty survivable, even though there are plenty of players I'd like in that range.

We'll see if he can surpass Goodman in the next year or so. I'd like to see it. If not, it had better be because Goodman is just superlative...

~G

Some would say that I'm just being negative and trolling but I'm being realistic and I really think we will be lucky to be 2-14 or 3-13.

Think about it. The combined total front seven of our 34 defense has exactly zero years of experience as a starter in a 3-4.

Orton can't fling a ball past 15 yards and B. Marshall might not even play for us and even if he does, he's so far behind in the playbook and team that he might not even be at his best.

We don't even have a reliable back-up right now if Orton isn't healthy enough to start in 2 weeks.

.

[Gimpygod]

I'ma bitch til this Coach Douchebag egomaniac kid who cause the biggest fiasco in NFL history to be replaced by a real coach.

.

I was with you up untiil this post... but this sounds like a lot of work! I'm going to need some vacation time so I can complain about other things as well. My dad is totally with you though which makes watching the bronco games tough. This used to be our man thing to do together and now he can't bear to watch McDaniels. And you should hear the things he says about Drew Soischer (sp?)... yikes!

[topscribe]

Some would say that I'm just being negative and trolling but I'm being realistic and I really think we will be lucky to be 2-14 or 3-13.

Think about it. The combined total front seven of our 34 defense has exactly zero years of experience as a starter in a 3-4.

Orton can't fling a ball past 15 yards and B. Marshall might not even play for us and even if he does, he's so far behind in the playbook and team that he might not even be at his best.

We don't even have a reliable back-up right now if Orton isn't healthy enough to start in 2 weeks.

.

If you were really being realistic, you would not say that. Anyone who says
that has not bothered to study Orton or to read or listen to any camp reports.
This is ridiculous . . .

-----

[NameUsedBefore]

The Bears would have to tank beyond tanking for us to get a Top-5.

[Nature Boy]

If you were really being realistic, you would not say that. Anyone who says
that has not bothered to study Orton or to read or listen to any camp reports.
This is ridiculous . . .

-----


I'll remind you in December when we haven't won more than 2 games and all the players have quit playing for McDaniels.

.

[Gimpygod]

It was the interview that Michael's did with Harrison during the game so sorry I don't have link for ya.

I do believe it was in the third quarter and they were interviewing Harrison because he's coming on as an analyst. And he specifically said he didn't understand why you would trade a franchise quarterback for a career backup and then chucked in no offense intended. He also elaborated extensively on all of the qualities Cutler has such as arm strength, mobility and an athleticism that most people don't need to appreciate unless they play against him.

[topscribe]

I'll remind you in December when we haven't won more than 2 games and all the players have quit playing for McDaniels.

.

What does that have to do with what I said?

-----

[Northman]

I did see the Harrison interview and he did say he couldnt understand why they would consider it. However, im sure McD was only exploring what someone was willing to give up in the process. I dont believe the deal was any different than the deal that we got for Jay in the end with Chicago. I highly doubt this was about swapping Qb's straight up. This was about how much a team was willing to give in return for a franchise QB. When Jay couldnt get over the fact that he was just as expendable as the rest of the team Denver went ahead a made their move.

[G_Money]

When Jay couldnt get over the fact that he was just as expendable as the rest of the team Denver went ahead a made their move.

That's true, but I probably wouldn't get over it either. After my head coach and my OC were fired and the new guy thinks about bringing in his own guy after I go to the Pro Bowl, I'd be pretty pissed. And then when I said, "fine, can I get a guarantee that I'm your guy NOW, or are we gonna do this dance every year?" and Josh said, "nobody's untradable, get used to it..."

That was the mistake, IMO. HCs are wedded to nothing and no one...except their QBs. If you can't find one, it's your fault. If you can find one, you'd better keep him through hell and high water.

Some guys get lucky and can replace a good QB (Bledsoe) with a great one (Brady). Some guys can trade a great one (Brees) but because they had a good one (Rivers) they can survive. Oh, wait, Marty didn't survive...

But trading a good or a great one means you'd better be able to pull another one out of a hat, or you're going nowhere except the unemployment line. People are more willing to wait for you to find a good one if you can get the rest of the team right, than they are to watch you perform that search after giving up a good QB. And as Dungy found out in TB and Billick did in Baltimore, even that patience for the QB search with everything else right only lasts for so long. We don't have everything else right.

Jay was at least a good QB. If we were replacing Jay with Brees, this would be a far different scenario. The idea now is to get a lesser QB who is more system-friendly to allow the system to trump the lesser talent.

The only question is whether Orton is more system-friendly. McDaniels says yes - so we'll see if he's right. Watching Brees do all kinds of crazy things in NO is okay with SD fans because Rivers and the Chargers keep making the playoffs.

If Orton can do that for us, then I can more easily forgive allowing pride to get in the way of keeping Cutler.

If he can't, and we can't find someone who will FAST (McCoy, I guess), I won't have a lot to forgive because McDaniels won't be here long.

~G

[Northman]

That's true, but I probably wouldn't get over it either. After my head coach and my OC were fired and the new guy thinks about bringing in his own guy after I go to the Pro Bowl, I'd be pretty pissed.

Im sure i would be too. However, i also share similiar outlooks like Sharpe and Elway do. I would be a little pissed but i would go about my business as usual. i wouldnt get caught up in the hoopla or what bug the coach may have up his ass. I would go out and prove why it would be a mistake. To not return calls and suck my thumb just wouldnt be an option for me. I guess you and i will have to disagree on this issue.



And then when I said, "fine, can I get a guarantee that I'm your guy NOW, or are we gonna do this dance every year?" and Josh said, "nobody's untradable, get used to it..."

I dont recall seeing those exact words used but if you have a link by all means post it up. I would find that hard to believe that Josh would say that same thing every year. At that point, Jay was still a unknown commodity to McDaniels so i can somewhat understand his thinking.


But trading a good or a great one means you'd better be able to pull another one out of a hat, or you're going nowhere except the unemployment line. People are more willing to wait for you to find a good one if you can get the rest of the team right, than they are to watch you perform that search after giving up a good QB. And as Dungy found out in TB and Billick did in Baltimore, even that patience for the QB search with everything else right only lasts for so long. We don't have everything else right.

Great post but it also backs up my arguement in another thread that McDaniels may be on a short leash but he will have at least 2 years to try and get his puzzle together. But i think people need to give him the time just like they gave Cutler time when he first took the reigns from Plummer to do his thing.


Jay was at least a good QB. If we were replacing Jay with Brees, this would be a far different scenario. The idea now is to get a lesser QB who is more system-friendly to allow the system to trump the lesser talent.

Jay is a fabulous QB. But he has some glaring weaknesses as opposed to the Brees, Mannings, and Bradys. And I think Orton and Simms are just a stop gap until McDaniels can get his Brady or Manning. But i think McDaniels is going to concentrate on the rest of the team for now before going after his golden child.


If Orton can do that for us, then I can more easily forgive allowing pride to get in the way of keeping Cutler.

If he can't, and we can't find someone who will FAST (McCoy, I guess), I won't have a lot to forgive because McDaniels won't be here long.

~G

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on the pride thing. This team was Jay's to essentially lose. Rather than going out with the guys he personally claims to play for and proving his coach wrong he fell into the trap and became the antichrist. Ive been on record saying that its very possible that McDaniels listened to that offer to test Jay and his persona. It wasnt a secret that Jay couldnt get over the Rivers fiasco and when Shanny was fired he couldnt shut up about that. Obviously, i have no proof to that matter but maybe, just maybe McD wanted to see how he would respond to that. Either way, im willing to give this coach his shot to see what he can do. Sucks that Jay isnt here and couldnt get over it. But i for one just didnt like his attitude and i guess deep down i will gladly wait to get another franchise QB when it happens.

[yardog]

That's true, but I probably wouldn't get over it either. After my head coach and my OC were fired and the new guy thinks about bringing in his own guy after I go to the Pro Bowl, I'd be pretty pissed. And then when I said, "fine, can I get a guarantee that I'm your guy NOW, or are we gonna do this dance every year?" and Josh said, "nobody's untradable, get used to it..."

That was the mistake, IMO. HCs are wedded to nothing and no one...except their QBs. If you can't find one, it's your fault. If you can find one, you'd better keep him through hell and high water.

Some guys get lucky and can replace a good QB (Bledsoe) with a great one (Brady). Some guys can trade a great one (Brees) but because they had a good one (Rivers) they can survive. Oh, wait, Marty didn't survive...

But trading a good or a great one means you'd better be able to pull another one out of a hat, or you're going nowhere except the unemployment line. People are more willing to wait for you to find a good one if you can get the rest of the team right, than they are to watch you perform that search after giving up a good QB. And as Dungy found out in TB and Billick did in Baltimore, even that patience for the QB search with everything else right only lasts for so long. We don't have everything else right.

Jay was at least a good QB. If we were replacing Jay with Brees, this would be a far different scenario. The idea now is to get a lesser QB who is more system-friendly to allow the system to trump the lesser talent.

The only question is whether Orton is more system-friendly. McDaniels says yes - so we'll see if he's right. Watching Brees do all kinds of crazy things in NO is okay with SD fans because Rivers and the Chargers keep making the playoffs.

If Orton can do that for us, then I can more easily forgive allowing pride to get in the way of keeping Cutler.

If he can't, and we can't find someone who will FAST (McCoy, I guess), I won't have a lot to forgive because McDaniels won't be here long.

~G

G
You need to teach me how to say all that without getting so pissed off I want to castrate McDaniels like he did the Broncos Offense. :tsk:

[D1g1tal j1m]

Look, Jay went to the meeting with his Agent (who has a history of stirring the pot) and then asked for a trade. What was said at the meeting is a he said she said thing, and nobody knows the full truth (different versions depending on how you want to hear it). The questions should be, will Bus ask to the moon and stars after this year from Chicago. Absolutely. Will the Broncos lose their top pick in the draft (the one they traded), yes. Is this a bad thing, no. With the way this past draft went, I wouldn't want to pay the amounts those top picks got for a unproven talent.
It was the 3rd preseason game of the new regime, to expect a well oiled machine is naive. Here is hoping for slow and steady progress throughout the season.

[OrangeHoof]

My point was that the lingering resentment does no good for anyone. How we feel about it means nothing. It's a waste of time and energy.

True, but at least it makes it understandable.

[LoyalSoldier]

My point was that the lingering resentment does no good for anyone. How we feel about it means nothing. It's a waste of time and energy.
The thing is that will never go away. Any bad break up is going to leave a bitter taste that no one will ever forget. That is just a fact of life. It is like I still remember one of my ex-girlfriends quite well because she threw a brick through my window when we broke up. That isn't quite something you can forget. Likewise in football we just had a brick throwing contest in Denver and no one is going to forget about it.

Now the pain can be numbed by winning, but it will never be forgotten.

[G_Money]

The thing is that will never go away. Any bad break up is going to leave a bitter taste that no one will ever forget. That is just a fact of life. It is like I still remember one of my ex-girlfriends quite well because she threw a brick through my window when we broke up. That isn't quite something you can forget. Likewise in football we just had a brick throwing contest in Denver and no one is going to forget about it.

Now the pain can be numbed by winning, but it will never be forgotten.

Winning cures pretty much anything. Even Bledsoe's most die-hard supporters weren't cussing Belichick out for dumping their boy when the SB wins were coming in under Brady.

Winning more division titles, more playoff games, more conference titles, more SBs than Cutler is McDaniels' job now. Getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs isn't gonna cut it any more than it cut it for the last guy.

McDaniels decided he didn't want to risk his first head coaching job, and eventually spend $100 million on a guy with Cutler's attitude issues. Whatever happened, McDaniels could have kept Cutler around and chose not to. If you can replace him and win, that's understandable.

He just has to do it. As much as I don't think Orton is the guy that's gonna do it, I certainly hope McDaniels CAN do it. Who wants to see the Broncos be mediocre or worse for any longer?

I'd think we all want to win. Which means Josh either needs to be right, or he needs to be gone in a short period of time.

Here's hoping for the former, so the latter (and subsequent rebuilding) isn't necessary. Find a QB and win, or be gone after 3 years: IMO that's the gauntlet McDaniels has thrown down for himself.

Be up to the challenge Josh - we need you to be.

~G

[LoyalSoldier]

There are people still bitter about the way Bledsoe was treated even with Brady at QB now. Now granted it is no where close to what we have going on right now. Bad events leave a bad taste. We still remember how much it sucked to be blown out by 40+ points in the superbowls, but we are able to cope with it because of the two we got in the 90s. You can't erase bad events even though you can minimize their impact.

However in this case this break up will only be de-emphasized if and only if McD wins a superbowl. If McD turns out to be a terrible or even an ok coach and Cutler goes on to have a good career then he will always be seens as the bum who chased Cutler off.

So it is unrealistic to expect people to just forget about Culter entirely especially when it happened just a couple months ago.

[Superchop 7]

It was probably the most intense pre-season game (hitting) that I have ever seen.

Through 2 quarters.

Sure, we were losing, (expected) but I can't blame the effort.

They gave it everything they had.

Orakpo and Maualuga would have changed the game.

Just sayin.

[Elevation inc]

glad you posted it.....

i am with this team through anything, but its clear some BS has been fed to us by the FO over numerous topics and its time for them to be accountable......

as woody said this wont fly here.......

[Elevation inc]

It was probably the most intense pre-season game (hitting) that I have ever seen.

Through 2 quarters.

Sure, we were losing, (expected) but I can't blame the effort.

They gave it everything they had.

Orakpo and Maualuga would have changed the game.

Just sayin.



you live in a very big what if world.....filled with massive assumptions....we all have our moments but damn.....i dont think you will ever be happy....we could have drafted all defensive players and i think you still would have griped about orakpo and rey rey...lol

[ursamajor]

But they have a terrible receiving corp and old and useless defense.You really should check your sources. The Bears defense has 1 player BARELY over 30.

I guess Jay has been throwing the ball to himself.

It will be fun to hear you argue against the Bears as they go all the way to the playoffs.

[ursamajor]

It was probably the most intense pre-season game (hitting) that I have ever seen.

Through 2 quarters.

Sure, we were losing, (expected) but I can't blame the effort.

They gave it everything they had.

Orakpo and Maualuga would have changed the game.

Just sayin.

Orakpo, yes. Maulaluga? Overratted. Tillman and Bowman would have made a bigger impact.

BTW Moreno would have made a difference.

[TXBRONC]

Originally Posted by TXBRONC
But they have a terrible receiving corp and old and useless defense.

You really should check your sources. The Bears defense has 1 player BARELY over 30.

I guess Jay has been throwing the ball to himself.

It will be fun to hear you argue against the Bears as they go all the way to the playoffs.

I was being sarcastic.

[T.K.O.]

i just got back from seattle where i saw ac/dc on monday night (awesome
i watched the game on a 42" lcd tv on the 18th floor of my hotel (awesome)
team did not look like they were playing their reg season "tune up" game (not awesome)
there was definate improvement on the run :defense: (awesome)
and that brandstater guy looked like a totally different qb than the week before, i hate to admit it but orton better start getting " IT " or he might be riding pine in a couple weeks !
maybe tom b. can be our flacco or ryan ?
anyway neither team looked very impressive to me ,i just hope we can win our 1st reg season game so the guys can start to believe !:salute: