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NameUsedBefore
08-30-2009, 10:02 PM
I don't see any pessimists taking pleasure in their perceived facts, with that said, here are "the facts":

We go nearly a decade looking for a QB and during that time, IMO, wasted Super Bowl-talented RB's and defense. We finally get one, but are now missing those very components. Then, at the drop of a hat, we trade the franchise QB. This isn't the running-back position. This isn't Clinton Portis being replaced by Reuben Droughns and the running-game still cranking 1,500. This is the position some franchises have gone without for their entire history. It's unprecedented. I think the guys howling we need to "get over it" have it all wrong; to me, they don't understand and/or underestimate the scope and impact of the trade. This is called a different point of view, amazing, no?

Nobody, well there is one I can think of, is turning against the Broncos. Personally, I'm physically upset about the trade. It makes me sick if I think about it. Does that mean I hate the Broncos? Of course not. It's about being realistic. Some aren't ideologues when it comes to Denver, pure and simple. Denver looks like a pretty crappy team at the moment and that's how I, and others, are going to call it until we see otherwise.

We're gonna march into the season with an egotistical coach whose peers have all failed around the league. Our starting QB being a guy who threw a left-handed, 5-yard hail mary into a sea of defenders. And you know what? I'll be watching all the games I can and if that's not possible I'll be watching the little squiggly lines on NFL.com march back and forth a pixelated field.

I got the Broncos pegged for 4-12. I'm not wishing the Broncos go 4-12. There is a difference; and the former is a respectable, logical and legitimate view. If you disagree with it then it's up for discussion. Saying I, or others, are not Broncos fans because of it is pure horse shit. It is patently absurd to say another is not a fan because they are being honest with him or herself.

What do you want? Should I think "Man, the Broncos are gonna have it rough this year" but just continuously spout the opposite all day? It's crazy and then to include the disparaging remarks, very insulting.

Nature Boy
08-30-2009, 10:04 PM
I agree with you.

**** you Josh McDanials.

.

LRtagger
08-30-2009, 10:08 PM
Sweet another thread.

frauschieze
08-30-2009, 10:08 PM
Dang. I was hoping this thread was going to be a haven for those who may be expecting a 4-12 season but like to try to look at the things that we are building on, rather than dwell on the past.

Guess I'll have to look elsewhere.

Watchthemiddle
08-30-2009, 10:08 PM
If only Cutler wouldn't have asked to be traded.....

Ho Hum....

Denver Native (Carol)
08-30-2009, 10:11 PM
Dang. I was hoping this thread was going to be a haven for those who may be expecting a 4-12 season but like to try to look at the things that we are building on, rather than dwell on the past.

Guess I'll have to look elsewhere.

Or, there could be an "Orange Colored Glasses Forum" started, which has been suggested in TH, where members could post, without reading all of the doom and gloom.

jhildebrand
08-30-2009, 10:21 PM
What will we accomplish rehashing any of this :confused:

What's done is done!

Nature Boy
08-30-2009, 10:25 PM
What will we accomplish rehashing any of this :confused:

What's done is done!


For the sake are arguments and I told you so. If you don't like it, don't read it and especially don't post. Some of us real hardcore fans want to vent and will not stop venting until we forget. Only way we can forget is when we start winning and that isn't gonna happen for a long while.

Thanks a lot Pat!

.

Tned
08-30-2009, 10:31 PM
For the sake are arguments and I told you so. If you don't like it, don't read it and especially don't post. Some of us real hardcore fans want to vent and will not stop venting until we forget. Only way we can forget is when we start winning and that isn't gonna happen for a long while.

Thanks a lot Pat!

.

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/troll.jpg

Shazam!
08-30-2009, 10:31 PM
For the sake are arguments...

This is the definition of trolling, 'for the sake of argument'...


If you don't like it, don't read it and especially don't post.

Don't read it and don't post? How can that be when EVERY THREAD is smothered with your bullshit? That's why Lex is gone and I hope sincerely you meet his fate too. It's ******* sickening reading your crap in every thread about how bad the Broncos suck, even on ignore people quote your garbage. You call yourself a Broncos fan, you don't act like it, especially when you root for the opposition, regardless of who the player on the other side is.

Tempus Fugit
08-30-2009, 10:32 PM
I don't see any pessimists taking pleasure in their perceived facts, with that said, here are "the facts":

Actually, several pessimists have taken great pleasure in it. That's become crystal clear, as the game thread today showed pretty conclusively.


We go nearly a decade looking for a QB and during that time, IMO, wasted Super Bowl-talented RB's and defense. We finally get one, but are now missing those very components. Then, at the drop of a hat, we trade the franchise QB. This isn't the running-back position. This isn't Clinton Portis being replaced by Reuben Droughns and the running-game still cranking 1,500. This is the position some franchises have gone without for their entire history. It's unprecedented. I think the guys howling we need to "get over it" have it all wrong; to me, they don't understand and/or underestimate the scope and impact of the trade. This is called a different point of view, amazing, no?

The "franchise QB" was not traded at the drop of a hat, or anything remotely approaching that. It's this sort of deliberate fudging of reality which should has been a pretty consistent feature of the 'pessimists'. It was an issue that began brewing the moment Shanahan was fired.


Nobody, well there is one I can think of, is turning against the Broncos. Personally, I'm physically upset about the trade. It makes me sick if I think about it. Does that mean I hate the Broncos? Of course not. It's about being realistic. Some aren't ideologues when it comes to Denver, pure and simple. Denver looks like a pretty crappy team at the moment and that's how I, and others, are going to call it until we see otherwise.

But you're 'seeing' it through tainted glasses based upon a following of the one proven liar in the Cutler scenario. Any honest viewer can see an improved defense, for example, along with signs of progress with the offense (and even, <gasp> Orton) from week 1 to week 3.


We're gonna march into the season with an egotistical coach whose peers have all failed around the league. Our starting QB being a guy who threw a left-handed, 5-yard hail mary into a sea of defenders. And you know what? I'll be watching all the games I can and if that's not possible I'll be watching the little squiggly lines on NFL.com march back and forth a pixelated field.

As Harrison pointed out on the show tonight, McDaniels is a very easy going (in terms of personal relationships) coach who's essentially universally liked. In fact, if you watched the broadcast tonight, you'd have heard that the Cutler and McDaniels never had a bad fight, but that McDaniels unwillingness to categorically state that he'd never look to trade Cutler was something that Cutler refused to accept and led to the trade. The 'ego' involved was that of Cutler, who couldn't accept the idea that all players are tradeable in the right circumstances.


I got the Broncos pegged for 4-12. I'm not wishing the Broncos go 4-12. There is a difference; and the former is a respectable, logical and legitimate view. If you disagree with it then it's up for discussion. Saying I, or others, are not Broncos fans because of it is pure horse shit. It is patently absurd to say another is not a fan because they are being honest with him or herself.

What do you want? Should I think "Man, the Broncos are gonna have it rough this year" but just continuously spout the opposite all day? It's crazy and then to include the disparaging remarks, very insulting.

The Broncos were a 7-9 team last season (they lost that Chargers game minus a ridiculous screw up by officials) with a much easier schedule than they'll have this season. This team could win 4-5 games despite being better than last season.

However, claiming that many of the pessimists are still Broncos fans when they are rooting against the interests of the Broncos just so they can gloat about a coach and defend a lying, immature quarterback, is a stretch of the definition that most people would not buy. The reality is that many of you have, in fact, ceased to be Broncos fans. I can see that, even as an outsider.

Nature Boy
08-30-2009, 10:33 PM
This is the definition of trolling, 'for the sake of argument'...



Don't read it and don't post? How can that be when EVERY THREAD is smothered with your bullshit? That's why Lex is gone and I hope sincerely you meet his fate too. It's ******* sickening reading your crap in every thread about how bad the Broncos suck, even on ignore people quote your garbage. You call yourself a Broncos fan, you don't act like it, especially when you root for the opposition, regardless of who the player on the other side is.


Am I wrong? Do the Broncos not suck? Does it hurt you so that this Broncos fan is expressing his opinion on his favorite team?

.

Shazam!
08-30-2009, 10:37 PM
Actually, several pessimists have taken great pleasure in it. That's become crystal clear, as the game thread today showed pretty conclusively.

The "franchise QB" was not traded at the drop of a hat, or anything remotely approaching that. It's this sort of deliberate fudging of reality which should has been a pretty consistent feature of the 'pessimists'. It was an issue that began brewing the moment Shanahan was fired.

But you're 'seeing' it through tainted glasses based upon a following of the one proven liar in the Cutler scenario. Any honest viewer can see an improved defense, for example, along with signs of progress with the offense (and even, <gasp> Orton) from week 1 to week 3.

As Harrison pointed out on the show tonight, McDaniels is a very easy going (in terms of personal relationships) coach who's essentially universally liked. In fact, if you watched the broadcast tonight, you'd have heard that the Cutler and McDaniels never had a bad fight, but that McDaniels unwillingness to categorically state that he'd never look to trade Cutler was something that Cutler refused to accept and led to the trade. The 'ego' involved was that of Cutler, who couldn't accept the idea that all players are tradeable in the right circumstances.

The Broncos were a 7-9 team last season (they lost that Chargers game minus a ridiculous screw up by officials) with a much easier schedule than they'll have this season. This team could win 4-5 games despite being better than last season.

However, claiming that many of the pessimists are still Broncos fans when they are rooting against the interests of the Broncos just so they can gloat about a coach and defend a lying, immature quarterback, is a stretch of the definition that most people would not buy.

The reality is that many of you have, in fact, ceased to be Broncos fans.

Great great post.

If Shanny was still here, so would Cutler but Denver would still finish .500ish, lose games and play horrendously in a few games they should've/could've won, collapse down the stretch, have some catastrophic injuries and the defense would be a friggin' joke, just like the last two seasons.

Tned
08-30-2009, 10:38 PM
Am I wrong? Do the Broncos not suck? Does it hurt you so that this Broncos fan is expressing his opinion on his favorite team?

.

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/troll.jpg

Shazam!
08-30-2009, 10:39 PM
Stop quoting him too, I wish the IL fixed that too!

Tempus Fugit
08-30-2009, 10:39 PM
This is the definition of trolling, 'for the sake of argument'...



Don't read it and don't post? How can that be when EVERY THREAD is smothered with your bullshit? That's why Lex is gone and I hope sincerely you meet his fate too. It's ******* sickening reading your crap in every thread about how bad the Broncos suck, even on ignore people quote your garbage. You call yourself a Broncos fan, you don't act like it, especially when you root for the opposition, regardless of who the player on the other side is.

Do you use Firefox as your browser? If so, you might want to get this addon:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7023

It will allow you to ignore a user. The difference between it and the bulletin board's ignore feature is that it also ignore that person's quotes when someone else puts them into their posts. You'll still see that person's response, but you won't see the ignored person's words at all. They will essentially have disappeared completely from the threads.

I've started using it and it's made my message board posting and reading a much more enjoyable experience.

Thnikkaman
08-30-2009, 10:40 PM
Am I wrong? Do the Broncos not suck? Does it hurt you so that this Broncos fan is expressing his opinion on his favorite team?

.

Don't know. The Broncos are still 0-0. The Lions went 4-0 in preseason last year, look at where it ended.

I don't care if you vent. Venting is great since its a short term thing that lets you release the anger of something that has happened.

At this point, its no longer venting. Its consistent pessimism. Its people who feel like shit, cant understand why people have moved on, and want everyone else to feel the same way.

You like Cutler and want to root for him over rooting for the Broncos? Guess what, you aren't a Bronco fan. Go start a Cutler fan board or go to a bears board. If you are a Broncos fan, then get over it. This happened in April. Now its August. Go see a therapist if you need to because at this point its unhealthy.

LoyalSoldier
08-30-2009, 10:43 PM
Dang. I was hoping this thread was going to be a haven for those who may be expecting a 4-12 season but like to try to look at the things that we are building on, rather than dwell on the past.

Guess I'll have to look elsewhere.

At the moment I don't like what we are building on. That is why I am particularly pissed about not having an early first rounder next year if we do suck.

There are only a hand full of players that I actually want to watch this next season. That being Royal, Clady, Hillis, and possibly Dumervile since he is actually looking good in a 3-4. Thus far none of the rookies have done much.

Moreno has had a total of 3 carries this far so I still have to see if he can be the back we all hope he can be. Ayers has a total of 1 tackle. Smith has 1 tackle and I haven't seen much of him so far other than kick returns. McBath is the only one I have even really seen anything out of this preseason and I am still not hyped on him.

Honestly this season just does not appel much to me. I will still watch every game and cheer on the Broncos, but I am bracing for the worst.

ktrain
08-30-2009, 10:45 PM
I don't see any pessimists taking pleasure in their perceived facts, with that said, here are "the facts":

We go nearly a decade looking for a QB and during that time, IMO, wasted Super Bowl-talented RB's and defense. We finally get one, but are now missing those very components. Then, at the drop of a hat, we trade the franchise QB. This isn't the running-back position. This isn't Clinton Portis being replaced by Reuben Droughns and the running-game still cranking 1,500. This is the position some franchises have gone without for their entire history. It's unprecedented. I think the guys howling we need to "get over it" have it all wrong; to me, they don't understand and/or underestimate the scope and impact of the trade. This is called a different point of view, amazing, no?

Nobody, well there is one I can think of, is turning against the Broncos. Personally, I'm physically upset about the trade. It makes me sick if I think about it. Does that mean I hate the Broncos? Of course not. It's about being realistic. Some aren't ideologues when it comes to Denver, pure and simple. Denver looks like a pretty crappy team at the moment and that's how I, and others, are going to call it until we see otherwise.

We're gonna march into the season with an egotistical coach whose peers have all failed around the league. Our starting QB being a guy who threw a left-handed, 5-yard hail mary into a sea of defenders. And you know what? I'll be watching all the games I can and if that's not possible I'll be watching the little squiggly lines on NFL.com march back and forth a pixelated field.

I got the Broncos pegged for 4-12. I'm not wishing the Broncos go 4-12. There is a difference; and the former is a respectable, logical and legitimate view. If you disagree with it then it's up for discussion. Saying I, or others, are not Broncos fans because of it is pure horse shit. It is patently absurd to say another is not a fan because they are being honest with him or herself.

What do you want? Should I think "Man, the Broncos are gonna have it rough this year" but just continuously spout the opposite all day? It's crazy and then to include the disparaging remarks, very insulting.

One problem with your argument. You assume Cutler is a franchise QB and not the second coming of Jeff George. Cutler always looked great in pre-season here in Denver too, especially against vanilla defenses that did not gameplan for us. He even looked good early in the season until defenses had enough tape on him to game plan him.

When Cutler fails in Chicago what are you going to say about the second coming of Jeff George?

Tned
08-30-2009, 10:48 PM
One problem with your argument. You assume Cutler is a franchise QB and not the second coming of Jeff George. Cutler always looked great in pre-season here in Denver too, especially against vanilla defenses that did not gameplan for us. He even looked good early in the season until defenses had enough tape on him to game plan him.

When Cutler fails in Chicago what are you going to say about the second coming of Jeff George?

In fairness, just about everyone with the exception of the Broncos fans that are pissed off at him for asking for a trade, or pissed off that he took Jake's job, consider Jay a franchise QB.

Northman
08-30-2009, 10:49 PM
Dang. I was hoping this thread was going to be a haven for those who may be expecting a 4-12 season but like to try to look at the things that we are building on, rather than dwell on the past.

Guess I'll have to look elsewhere.

Why be positive when you can emulate the QB who whined his way out of Denver and then blame everybody else because of it? :lol:

frauschieze
08-30-2009, 10:50 PM
At the moment I don't like what we are building on. That is why I am particularly pissed about not having an early first rounder next year if we do suck.

There are only a hand full of players that I actually want to watch this next season. That being Royal, Clady, Hillis, and possibly Dumervile since he is actually looking good in a 3-4. Thus far none of the rookies have done much.

Moreno has had a total of 3 carries this far so I still have to see if he can be the back we all hope he can be. Ayers has a total of 1 tackle. Smith has 1 tackle and I haven't seen much of him so far other than kick returns. McBath is the only one I have even really seen anything out of this preseason and I am still not hyped on him.

Honestly this season just does not appel much to me. I will still watch every game and cheer on the Broncos, but I am bracing for the worst.

Fair enough. But you don't seem to be one of the ones dwelling on what can't be changed either, though.

I can't say that I've been pleased with this offseason. It's easily the worst offseason I remember, and I'm not 100% convinced we're doing what we need to in order to compete. But I can't continue to think about what might have been. Only what is.

But that's just me. *shrugs*

Northman
08-30-2009, 10:50 PM
Actually, several pessimists have taken great pleasure in it. That's become crystal clear, as the game thread today showed pretty conclusively.



The "franchise QB" was not traded at the drop of a hat, or anything remotely approaching that. It's this sort of deliberate fudging of reality which should has been a pretty consistent feature of the 'pessimists'. It was an issue that began brewing the moment Shanahan was fired.



But you're 'seeing' it through tainted glasses based upon a following of the one proven liar in the Cutler scenario. Any honest viewer can see an improved defense, for example, along with signs of progress with the offense (and even, <gasp> Orton) from week 1 to week 3.



As Harrison pointed out on the show tonight, McDaniels is a very easy going (in terms of personal relationships) coach who's essentially universally liked. In fact, if you watched the broadcast tonight, you'd have heard that the Cutler and McDaniels never had a bad fight, but that McDaniels unwillingness to categorically state that he'd never look to trade Cutler was something that Cutler refused to accept and led to the trade. The 'ego' involved was that of Cutler, who couldn't accept the idea that all players are tradeable in the right circumstances.



The Broncos were a 7-9 team last season (they lost that Chargers game minus a ridiculous screw up by officials) with a much easier schedule than they'll have this season. This team could win 4-5 games despite being better than last season.

However, claiming that many of the pessimists are still Broncos fans when they are rooting against the interests of the Broncos just so they can gloat about a coach and defend a lying, immature quarterback, is a stretch of the definition that most people would not buy. The reality is that many of you have, in fact, ceased to be Broncos fans. I can see that, even as an outsider.


Post of the year.

Shazam!
08-30-2009, 10:54 PM
Only John Elway was bigger than the Broncos. No other player is bigger than the franchise. I wait almost 8 months for Broncos football, and regardless of how the offseason went I am dying for it to start. Even if they were 0-15 I want them to win every game. Some of these 'fans' disgust me.

If Shanahan was here, there is no guarantee of a different outcome from '07-08 either. .500ish and we all know the rest. It'd be more of what we've gotten used to in the late years of Shanahan. He failed miserably last season and deserved to be fired. People need to move on from this and stop with the "Bring Back Mikey" bullshit. One playoff win and one division title is not the definition of success. And his failure to rally the troops 3 games up with 3 to go was downright pathetic.

Josh knows football. Period. End of conversation. He's forgotten more about the game than any of us know.

Give the guy a chance to succeed.

It may not happen this year, but he's building something.

Until I can say without a doubt he has failed, I will not crucify him. There are positives going on.

Reidman
08-30-2009, 10:57 PM
I'll reserve judgement until a regular season game is played....

Even despite being phyiscally ill over the trade myself. It will take time, like anything, to get over it but dwelling on it will not help matters either. So far, it appears Orton has gotten better with each game, despite not being an offensive juggernaut, which I don't believe any of us expected him to be anyway.

Having real expectations is fine, but it appears many have lost faith and
heart, which essentially is like giving up on your team in my opinion...

Broncos Mtnman
08-30-2009, 11:00 PM
One problem with your argument. You assume Cutler is a franchise QB and not the second coming of Jeff George. Cutler always looked great in pre-season here in Denver too, especially against vanilla defenses that did not gameplan for us. He even looked good early in the season until defenses had enough tape on him to game plan him.

When Cutler fails in Chicago what are you going to say about the second coming of Jeff George?

One problem with your arguement. You assume Cutler ISN'T a franchise QB.

Thnikkaman
08-30-2009, 11:07 PM
One problem with your arguement. You assume Cutler ISN'T a franchise QB.

Go root for Cutler then. Nobody is stopping you.

Asian Sushi 7
08-30-2009, 11:08 PM
Fan police here like clamydia in saigon in 68.

father say all have own way of harvest rice.

we all harvest in different. no judge other.

Broncos Mtnman
08-30-2009, 11:09 PM
Go root for Cutler then. Nobody is stopping you.

Boring, but childish.... :coffee:

Northman
08-30-2009, 11:10 PM
Fan police here like clamydia in saigon in 68.

father say all have own way of harvest rice.

we all harvest in different. no judge other.



Thats what you get for sucky ****y for 10 dollar.

topscribe
08-30-2009, 11:10 PM
For the sake are arguments and I told you so. If you don't like it, don't read it and especially don't post.

.

I can't help but to wonder how much better it would be if you didn't post . . .

-----

NameUsedBefore
08-30-2009, 11:11 PM
Actually, several pessimists have taken great pleasure in it. That's become crystal clear, as the game thread today showed pretty conclusively.

As acknowledged.



The "franchise QB" was not traded at the drop of a hat, or anything remotely approaching that. It's this sort of deliberate fudging of reality which should has been a pretty consistent feature of the 'pessimists'. It was an issue that began brewing the moment Shanahan was fired.

Absolutely false. Marshall has currently acknowledged that he wants to be traded. He has not yet been even after months of being very obvious with his intentions. By comparison, Cutler was traded immediately especially if you add in the fact he can not be as easily replaced as Marshall.



But you're 'seeing' it through tainted glasses based upon a following of the one proven liar in the Cutler scenario. Any honest viewer can see an improved defense, for example, along with signs of progress with the offense (and even, <gasp> Orton) from week 1 to week 3.

Difference of views. I don't see an improved defense. Is a 98-yard drive enough evidence of that, or do you require more (how about that famed 49ers offense, even without Frank Gore)? I don't see an improved offense. How's that first team offense doing? Not very much. The only improvement thus far for the 1st-team offense is a mitigation of the damage Orton can do with his turnovers. Do you need more evidence here as well? I find my views entirely legitimate and can be backed with observations.



As Harrison pointed out on the show tonight, McDaniels is a very easy going (in terms of personal relationships) coach who's essentially universally liked. In fact, if you watched the broadcast tonight, you'd have heard that the Cutler and McDaniels never had a bad fight, but that McDaniels unwillingness to categorically state that he'd never look to trade Cutler was something that Cutler refused to accept and led to the trade. The 'ego' involved was that of Cutler, who couldn't accept the idea that all players are tradeable in the right circumstances.

They both have egos.



The Broncos were a 7-9 team last season (they lost that Chargers game minus a ridiculous screw up by officials) with a much easier schedule than they'll have this season. This team could win 4-5 games despite being better than last season.

Losing a bunch close to the teams they're facing would be nice.



However, claiming that many of the pessimists are still Broncos fans when they are rooting against the interests of the Broncos just so they can gloat about a coach and defend a lying, immature quarterback, is a stretch of the definition that most people would not buy. The reality is that many of you have, in fact, ceased to be Broncos fans. I can see that, even as an outsider.

Then point out how; you say you can "see" "many" but for such a lengthy post do not make one defense of the one sentence most pertinent. I asked a question:


What do you want? Should I think "Man, the Broncos are gonna have it rough this year" but just continuously spout the opposite all day?

Nobody has answered it, but the innuendo is there. Apparently blowing smoke up my own ass is more honorable than calling it like I see it. And then lying to myself and others will make me more of a fan. Incredible.

The very reason I made this topic is not because I saw the likes of Nature Boy or SirFoxx (sp) rooting against the team, but because of Claymore and others who are Broncos fans and will remain so, but were treated like they were rooting against the team. It is an argument that substitutes actual discussion for character assassinations. It's low and baseless. Perhaps most of all, and I mentioned this, it marginalizes people who genuinely care.

Yeah I think the Broncos are gonna suck this year. I'm still gonna watch every game. I'm failing to see how that makes me less of a fan. I ****ing hate Philip Rivers but he is a good QB; does admitting that make me a fan of his? Hardly. The logic being applied is reminiscent of the dark ages.

Northman
08-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Difference of views. I don't see an improved defense. Is a 98-yard drive enough evidence of that, or do you require more (how about that famed 49ers offense, even without Frank Gore)?






I guess NY must have a pretty crappy defense and offense too.

aberdien
08-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Cutler is not Jeff George. He's a good quarterback to build the franchise around, and he showed that tonight regardless of whether it was a preseason game or not. He stayed composed, stayed in the game, and threw good passes. The first half of this game was not just another boring preseason game. Jay wanted to prove to the Broncos that he's not just a little baby, the Broncos wanted to prove that they didn't need Jay to be solid, and the fans wanted to clear the field and release a lion for him to go against.

I think Josh McDaniels screwed up with the Cutler thing, very few people think it was the right move. But oh well, he's not coming back so we have Orton who is a solid started as long as he doesn't try to do too much.

The first post is absolutely correct for me. I'm pissed off and despise the Jay Cutler move that was made and think it will come back to bite us in the ass, but that doesn't mean I can't continue to love and support the Broncos. I do think we'll be better than people are expecting, Kyle Orton will be alright.

Also, you don't just give somebody what they want if they cry enough about it, especially if he can throw a good football. All it does is tell him that anytime he wants something he can whine and magically receive it.

NameUsedBefore
08-30-2009, 11:15 PM
Did we play New York?

ktrain
08-30-2009, 11:15 PM
One problem with your arguement. You assume Cutler ISN'T a franchise QB.

What has he done to prove he is a franchise QB?

He always looks like a franchise QB in August and even September....

But what does he look like in San Diego in December????:2thumbsdown:

The whole world saw him act like a bitch 2 years in a row in San Diego, Cutler made Jeff George look like Cal Ripkin Jr in those games two years in a row.

Character is character and Cutler has none.

Asian Sushi 7
08-30-2009, 11:15 PM
you mop floor with blowfish in typhoon Name

Northman
08-30-2009, 11:16 PM
Did we play New York?

Its not my point.

ktrain
08-30-2009, 11:19 PM
In fairness, just about everyone with the exception of the Broncos fans that are pissed off at him for asking for a trade, or pissed off that he took Jake's job, consider Jay a franchise QB.

In fairness....most of them forget the complete meltdowns he had at the end season two years in a row. No doubting his talent, but the guy is a friggin baby when the chips are down.

I live in Chicagoland now, and I cannot wait to see the meltdown with these dipshit bears fans when things go badly and this turd starts showing his true colors

Broncos Mtnman
08-30-2009, 11:28 PM
In fairness....most of them forget the complete meltdowns he had at the end season two years in a row. No doubting his talent, but the guy is a friggin baby when the chips are down.

I live in Chicagoland now, and I cannot wait to see the meltdown with these dipshit bears fans when things go badly and this turd starts showing his true colors

Current players, former players, current coaches, former coaches, former GMs, current GMs all say he's franchise quality.

I think I'll take their evaluation over yours.

jhildebrand
08-30-2009, 11:30 PM
For the sake are arguments and I told you so. If you don't like it, don't read it and especially don't post. Some of us real hardcore fans want to vent and will not stop venting until we forget. Only way we can forget is when we start winning and that isn't gonna happen for a long while.

Thanks a lot Pat!

.

Who said I didn't like it? :confused: I simply asked what you "hardcore" fans expect to accomplish. It was a legitimate question.

Furthermore, it is laughable that the Cutler/Shanahan contingent claim to be the only hardcore Bronco fans around. :rolleyes:

You do realize that even with your two saviors at their respective helms, we were a .500 team! We had a collapse of epic proportions! Cutler couldn't solve the Rubik's cube that has been the Raiders on more than one occasion and the MIGHTY LIONS! Shoot, beat the raiders or bills late last year and the likeness of the fatheads in your room are still Broncos :D If that isn't sign enough for change, I don't know what is.

What I do know is these "hardcore" fans will be the first to point to a losing season and gloat about how you saw it coming but are so myopic that you can't see the silver lining that exists now! :laugh:

Watchthemiddle
08-30-2009, 11:34 PM
In fairness, just about everyone with the exception of the Broncos fans that are pissed off at him for asking for a trade, or pissed off that he took Jake's job, consider Jay a franchise QB.

You can add 70,000 strong for being pissed off at him for asking for a trade. That crowd was loud!!

Thnikkaman
08-30-2009, 11:36 PM
Boring, but childish.... :coffee:

No bating. No trying to talk smack with you. Just calling a spade a spade.

Watchthemiddle
08-30-2009, 11:36 PM
Current players, former players, current coaches, former coaches, former GMs, current GMs all say he's franchise quality.

I think I'll take their evaluation over yours.

Current players, former players, current coaches, former coaches, former GM's all said Jeff George and Ryan Leaf were Franchise QB's also.

Not sure what your definition of a franchise QB is, but mine starts with leadership and the ability to raise the level of play of those around you. Strong arms are not a pre-requisite of a franchise QB.

LoyalSoldier
08-30-2009, 11:42 PM
Its not my point.

Yes because your point had nothing to do with his. :coffee:

Northman
08-30-2009, 11:46 PM
Yes because your point had nothing to do with his. :coffee:

Ah yes, because your the pinnacle of knowing what im thinking and trying to convey. :rolleyes:

The retards are out in force tonight.

sneakers
08-30-2009, 11:48 PM
you mop floor with blowfish in typhoon Name

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

LoyalSoldier
08-30-2009, 11:49 PM
Ah yes, because your the pinnacle of knowing what im thinking and trying to convey. :rolleyes:

The retards are out in force tonight.


Um then why post? If it isn't obvious what you are trying to say then it is your failure not mine.

You post something about a team we haven't played and the only thing I could think of that is related to that is saying the Bears, who played NYG last week, did the same to them. Which even if that was your point it is a stupid point.

So if that isn't what you meant then quit being so pissy about your own mess when someone points out how stupid it is.

Watchthemiddle
08-30-2009, 11:49 PM
"I want to be traded"

" I never asked for a trade"

- Jay Cutler.

TIA

Requiem / The Dagda
08-30-2009, 11:51 PM
I have diabetes and it is a problem. -- Jay Cutler

sneakers
08-30-2009, 11:52 PM
I have diabetes and it is a problem. -- Jay Cutler

I have a crappy hair cut and it is a problem. -- Jay Cutler

Northman
08-30-2009, 11:52 PM
Um then why post? If it isn't obvious what you are trying to say then it is your failure not mine.

You post something about a team we haven't played and the only thing I could think of that is related to that is saying the Bears, who played NYG last week, are a good team and therefore we shouldn't feel too bad about our defense.

So if that isn't what you meant then quit being so pissy about your own mess when someone points out how stupid it is.


So wait? The fact that you and wonder boy couldnt comprehend what i was getting at is my failure? :lol::lol:

Um ok.

Got news for you ********. If you dont know what is going on shut the **** up.

LoyalSoldier
08-30-2009, 11:53 PM
I love quoting people, it adds to my post count and saves me the trouble of actually making a good post -LoyalSoldier

Nature Boy
08-30-2009, 11:53 PM
So it's OK to bash Cutler but if you bash Coach Mickey Mouse or point out the fact that the Broncos suck because they do then you get the threat of banishment?

.

Broncos Mtnman
08-30-2009, 11:53 PM
I don't see any pessimists taking pleasure in their perceived facts, with that said, here are "the facts":

We go nearly a decade looking for a QB and during that time, IMO, wasted Super Bowl-talented RB's and defense. We finally get one, but are now missing those very components. Then, at the drop of a hat, we trade the franchise QB. This isn't the running-back position. This isn't Clinton Portis being replaced by Reuben Droughns and the running-game still cranking 1,500. This is the position some franchises have gone without for their entire history. It's unprecedented. I think the guys howling we need to "get over it" have it all wrong; to me, they don't understand and/or underestimate the scope and impact of the trade. This is called a different point of view, amazing, no?

Nobody, well there is one I can think of, is turning against the Broncos. Personally, I'm physically upset about the trade. It makes me sick if I think about it. Does that mean I hate the Broncos? Of course not. It's about being realistic. Some aren't ideologues when it comes to Denver, pure and simple. Denver looks like a pretty crappy team at the moment and that's how I, and others, are going to call it until we see otherwise.

We're gonna march into the season with an egotistical coach whose peers have all failed around the league. Our starting QB being a guy who threw a left-handed, 5-yard hail mary into a sea of defenders. And you know what? I'll be watching all the games I can and if that's not possible I'll be watching the little squiggly lines on NFL.com march back and forth a pixelated field.

I got the Broncos pegged for 4-12. I'm not wishing the Broncos go 4-12. There is a difference; and the former is a respectable, logical and legitimate view. If you disagree with it then it's up for discussion. Saying I, or others, are not Broncos fans because of it is pure horse shit. It is patently absurd to say another is not a fan because they are being honest with him or herself.

What do you want? Should I think "Man, the Broncos are gonna have it rough this year" but just continuously spout the opposite all day? It's crazy and then to include the disparaging remarks, very insulting.

Well, the thread hi-jackers have arrived, so I thought I'd quote what this thread is about.

:coffee:

Northman
08-30-2009, 11:53 PM
So it's OK to bash Cutler but if you bash Coach Mickey Mouse or point out the fact that the Broncos suck because they do then you get the threat of banishment?

.


Only if you TROLL.

Thnikkaman
08-30-2009, 11:54 PM
I have diabetes and it is a problem. -- Jay Cutler

Pass the Jack Daniels -- Jay Cutler

Watchthemiddle
08-30-2009, 11:54 PM
So it's OK to bash Cutler but if you bash Coach Mickey Mouse or point out the fact that the Broncos suck because they do then you get the threat of banishment?

.

Yes...Cutler bashed us as fans and did nothing in 3 years here...was part of the biggest melt down in NFL history and cried his way out of town.

SO again, yes its okay to bash Cutler. Me and 70,000 of my closest fans would agree.

TIA

LoyalSoldier
08-30-2009, 11:54 PM
So wait? The fact that you and wonder boy couldnt comprehend what i was getting at is my failure? :lol::lol:

Um ok.

Got news for you ********. If you dont know what is going on shut the **** up.

I love how you try to pin it back on me.

How about you make your posts longer than a sentence (you know it is easier for people to understand what you are saying when you make a clear picture) and quit acting like a jackass when people don't have a clue what you are saying.

NY doesn't have a damn thing to do with the Broncos so quit acting like we are psychic. You give us nothing in your post and expect the world to understand.

sneakers
08-30-2009, 11:55 PM
I love quoting people, it adds to my post count and saves me the trouble of actually making a good post -LoyalSoldier

I like internet -- sneakers

Watchthemiddle
08-30-2009, 11:55 PM
If only Cutler wouldn't have asked to be traded.....

Ho Hum....

Well, the thread hi-jackers have arrived, so I thought I'd quote what this thread is about.

:coffee:

sneakers
08-30-2009, 11:56 PM
Well, the thread hi-jackers have arrived, so I thought I'd quote what this thread is about.

:coffee:

Have they made any demands?!?!?!

Northman
08-30-2009, 11:56 PM
I love how you try to pin it back on me.

How about you make your posts longer than a sentence (you know it is easier for people to understand what you are saying when you make a clear picture) and quit acting like a jackass when people don't have a clue what you are saying.

Well gee, here's a thought. If you werent clear on the topic at hand maybe you should try to ASK for clarification instead of coming off like a jackass. Hence, you wont be treated like one. Gosh, who would of thunk that being civil to begin with can do wonders for a discussion?

Requiem / The Dagda
08-30-2009, 11:58 PM
Tim Hiller is going to be our quarterback of the future guys. You can all get on the bandwagon right now because we all know you'd be on his heuvos after the fact. Look him up. Tell 'em Uncle Cicero sentcha.

NameUsedBefore
08-30-2009, 11:58 PM
I gotta go with Loyal, Northman. Your post could be, off the top of my head, interpreted three different ways: The ones we've both mentioned, and that because the Giants looked bad in one game then they are bad, obviously inferring that preseason games are overrated. My rebuttal to that is my "preseason philosophy" which is that if you look bad always then you got problems. The corollary being that if you are smoking teams all preseason it means very little. (With aberrations here and there, of course.)

LoyalSoldier
08-30-2009, 11:59 PM
Well gee, here's a thought. If you werent clear on the topic at hand maybe you should try to ASK for clarification instead of coming off like a jackass. Hence, you wont be treated like one. Gosh, who would of thunk that being civil to begin with can do wonders for a discussion?

So tell me who was the first one to start hurling the insults? Let me quote it


The retards are out in force tonight. All I said was


Yes because your point had nothing to do with his.Because your post made no freaking sense. So I said it made no sense and you start going on a flaming binge.

So it's your problem not mine. If you wanted to keep it civil then you could have not posted the crap you did. Quit trying to be the bigger man when you were the first to degrade the discussion.

broncogirl7
08-30-2009, 11:59 PM
Well tonight sucked! Cutler, depressingly, looked good. McDaniels made a mistake, hopefully he will learn from it...a.k.a. Marshall. There were a few bright spots in tonight's game and I am going to hold onto that for as long as possible. Orton's injury is worrisome.

Nature Boy
08-31-2009, 12:01 AM
Tim Hiller is going to be our quarterback of the future guys. You can all get on the bandwagon right now because we all know you'd be on his heuvos after the fact. Look him up. Tell 'em Uncle Cicero sentcha.


I still have this fingers crossed that Jack Elway Jr. will be drafted in 2012 and be our future Franchise Quarterback. Now, I just got to figure out a way to get him back on the field and interested in playing.

.

Northman
08-31-2009, 12:02 AM
I gotta go with Loyal, Northman. Your post could be, off the top of my head, interpreted three different ways: The ones we've both mentioned, and that because the Giants looked bad in one game then they are bad, obviously inferring that preseason games are overrated. My rebuttal to that is my "preseason philosophy" which is that if you look bad always then you got problems. The corollary being that if you are smoking teams all preseason it means very little. (With aberrations here and there, of course.)

Ah, well what do you know. Somebody who actually will ask what i meant instead of trying to insult me from the beginning. And you stated some great points but even with that the Giants D is better than they showed. Im not saying Denver is going to be top 10 but i also wouldnt say that they are nearly as bad as it may/may not look now. Its still preseason no matter how you slice it. Teams sometimes look better or worse in preseason than they do in the regular season. Doesnt mean we wont struggle or suck but im still not putting 100% stock into what i see right now. And thats for any team.

Nature Boy
08-31-2009, 12:03 AM
Well tonight sucked! Cutler, depressingly, looked good. McDaniels made a mistake, hopefully he will learn from it...a.k.a. Marshall. There were a few bright spots in tonight's game and I am going to hold onto that for as long as possible. Orton's injury is worrisome.


Yup, the 2009 Broncos season is dependent on Kyle Orton's boo boo on his finger.

Cutler just proved McDummass a dumbass.

.

LoyalSoldier
08-31-2009, 12:05 AM
Somebody who actually will ask what i meant instead of trying to insult me from the beginning.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

LOL! That is the biggest joke I ever heard.

Tell me how was saying your post had nothing to do with NUB's an insult? Oh wow I so insulted you by saying your post was irrelevant. HOLY CRAP THAT IS SUCH AN INSULT!.....

Seriously, quit playing the victim. You started hurling insults long before I did.

Watchthemiddle
08-31-2009, 12:05 AM
I still have this fingers crossed that Jack Elway Jr. will be drafted in 2012 and be our future Franchise Quarterback. Now, I just got to figure out a way to get him back on the field and interested in playing.

.

But but but...he would be drafted by McDaniels in 2012, how ever could you live with that?

DUDE...you are gonna have your fingers crossed for a long time...he quit playing football.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_12090229

Next

Tned
08-31-2009, 12:09 AM
So it's OK to bash Cutler but if you bash Coach Mickey Mouse or point out the fact that the Broncos suck because they do then you get the threat of banishment?

.

You really might want to ask those type questions via PM, since you know it is against the rules to question admin/moderator actions in open threads.

You also said over an our ago, you were calling it quits for the night and maybe longer. Might be a good idea to turn in.

Northman
08-31-2009, 12:10 AM
Tell me how was saying your post had nothing to do with NUB's an insult?

Easy. It showed your ignorance on the situation. Instead of doing exactly what NUB did and get some clarification you chose to be a sarcastic ******* about it. Hell, you said it yourself that you were pointing out how "stupid" my post was yet you had no idea what i was talking about. Talk about stupid. :lol:

frauschieze
08-31-2009, 12:14 AM
Time to knock the personal stuff off, guys.


















Back to the topic.

LoyalSoldier
08-31-2009, 12:16 AM
Easy. It showed your ignorance on the situation. Instead of doing exactly what NUB did and get some clarification you chose to be a sarcastic ******* about it. Hell, you said it yourself that you were pointing out how "stupid" my post was yet you had no idea what i was talking about. Talk about stupid. :lol:

A point no one can understand = stupid point. Simple as that.

Again if you don't form your point in a way that anyone can understand it than it is your own failure. And my post had no sarcasm as it was simply saying your point didn't seem to have anything to do with the Broncos defense sucking. It had too many loose ends. If my post as an insult then you are rather easily insulted.

Northman
08-31-2009, 12:20 AM
A point no one can understand = stupid point. Simple as that.

Again if you don't form your point in a way that anyone can understand it than it is your own failure. And my post had no sarcasm as it was simply saying your point didn't seem to have anything to do with the Broncos defense sucking. It had too many loose ends. If my post as an insult then you are rather easily insulted.

See post #75.

LoyalSoldier
08-31-2009, 12:21 AM
See post #75.

See post 75 was the last on the page and two seconds after I started posting. I'll be glad to knock it off, but it still doesn't change things.

Nature Boy
08-31-2009, 12:24 AM
But but but...he would be drafted by McDaniels in 2012, how ever could you live with that?

DUDE...you are gonna have your fingers crossed for a long time...he quit playing football.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_12090229

Next


I guess you failed to learn what sarcasm means.

.

Northman
08-31-2009, 12:25 AM
See post 75 was the last on the page and two seconds after I started posting. I'll be glad to knock it off


Fixed.

Tempus Fugit
08-31-2009, 12:27 AM
As acknowledged.

No, you denied it:


I don't see any pessimists taking pleasure in their perceived facts


Absolutely false. Marshall has currently acknowledged that he wants to be traded. He has not yet been even after months of being very obvious with his intentions. By comparison, Cutler was traded immediately especially if you add in the fact he can not be as easily replaced as Marshall.

Not false at all, and using Marshall as a comparison doesn't change your initial point. You are doing precisely what I noted, though:


deliberate fudging of reality

Now, suddenly, a situation which brewed for months has morphed into "at the drop of a hat" in your assertion by inserting the comparison to Marshall. It's this sort of dishonesty which has made the 'pessimists' so obnoxious.


Difference of views. I don't see an improved defense. Is a 98-yard drive enough evidence of that, or do you require more (how about that famed 49ers offense, even without Frank Gore)? I don't see an improved offense. How's that first team offense doing? Not very much. The only improvement thus far for the 1st-team offense is a mitigation of the damage Orton can do with his turnovers. Do you need more evidence here as well? I find my views entirely legitimate and can be backed with observations.

Shocking that someone with a negative bias would make this claim.... Willful blindness, congratulations.


They both have egos.

Everyone has an ego. Again, Harrison talked about McDaniels and how great he is to work for. If you weren't so blinded by your position, you'd accept certain obvious realities.


Losing a bunch close to the teams they're facing would be nice.

I'm sure winning by 500 points would be nice, too. That was not the point of my response, as you well know. I was talking about how a better team can still end up with worse results.


Then point out how; you say you can "see" "many" but for such a lengthy post do not make one defense of the one sentence most pertinent. I asked a question:

Nobody has answered it, but the innuendo is there. Apparently blowing smoke up my own ass is more honorable than calling it like I see it. And then lying to myself and others will make me more of a fan. Incredible.

The very reason I made this topic is not because I saw the likes of Nature Boy or SirFoxx (sp) rooting against the team, but because of Claymore and others who are Broncos fans and will remain so, but were treated like they were rooting against the team. It is an argument that substitutes actual discussion for character assassinations. It's low and baseless. Perhaps most of all, and I mentioned this, it marginalizes people who genuinely care.

Yeah I think the Broncos are gonna suck this year. I'm still gonna watch every game. I'm failing to see how that makes me less of a fan. I ****ing hate Philip Rivers but he is a good QB; does admitting that make me a fan of his? Hardly. The logic being applied is reminiscent of the dark ages.

I won't discuss individual people. I'd likely get in trouble even though I'd wouldn't be doing anything but opining honestly and without malice.

It's one thing to point out problems and discuss deficiencies. It's another thing entirely to bitch about them in just about every single post, to lie or misrepresent what's actually happen, and to gloat over seemingly every negative play. When you start doing things like that, creating avatars calling the coach a liar even though you've got no proof, and things like that, you've left the 'fan' zone.

frauschieze
08-31-2009, 12:27 AM
Okay guys, we don't need to argue about who is going to drop stuff or not. Let it go.




EDIT: Thanks Tempus!

sneakers
08-31-2009, 12:38 AM
I still think the bears are going to finish 3rd in that division.

LoyalSoldier
08-31-2009, 12:40 AM
I still think the bears are going to finish 3rd in that division.

As far as I am concerned where the Bears finish in the division isn't as important to me as how good/bad their record is when they finish. I mean our first round pick is riding on how they do.

Northman
08-31-2009, 12:40 AM
I still think the bears are going to finish 3rd in that division.

I think so too. GB looks real good.

sneakers
08-31-2009, 12:41 AM
As far as I am concerned where the Bears finish in the division isn't as important to me as how good/bad their record is when they finish. I mean our first round pick is riding on how they do.

10-6 or 9-7 would be my guess, unless the vikings or packers are not as good as they look

sneakers
08-31-2009, 12:41 AM
I think so too. GB looks real good.

All the packer fans around here are all giddy.

NameUsedBefore
08-31-2009, 12:42 AM
No, you denied it:

I'm referencing to the "one person" I'm aware of that was now actively rooting against the team. You have used the term "many" which has not yet been backed.



Not false at all, and using Marshall as a comparison doesn't change your initial point. You are doing precisely what I noted, though:

Now, suddenly, a situation which brewed for months has morphed into "at the drop of a hat" in your assertion by inserting the comparison to Marshall. It's this sort of dishonesty which has made the 'pessimists' so obnoxious.

I can't really make sense of what you are trying to say here so I'll just reword what I did: the Cutler issue blew up about as fast as it ended. He is a franchise QB. By comparison, Marshall has made it clear where he wants to be and his situation has dragged on for months. He is a WR. We are going the distance with Marshall, with Cutler it was a done deal instantly; so yes, it was at a drop of a hat.



Shocking that someone with a negative bias would make this claim.... Willful blindness, congratulations.

I backed my statements, is it so much for you to do the same, particularly if you're going to call me "willfully blind"?



Everyone has an ego. Again, Harrison talked about McDaniels and how great he is to work for. If you weren't so blinded by your position, you'd accept certain obvious realities.

My original claim was that McDaniels was egotistical, not how he is to play for. You disputed that initially, but now accept it.



I'm sure winning by 500 points would be nice, too. That was not the point of my response, as you well know. I was talking about how a better team can still end up with worse results.

Yes.



I won't discuss individual people. I'd likely get in trouble even though I'd wouldn't be doing anything but opining honestly and without malice.

It's one thing to point out problems and discuss deficiencies. It's another thing entirely to bitch about them in just about every single post, to lie or misrepresent what's actually happen, and to gloat over seemingly every negative play. When you start doing things like that, creating avatars calling the coach a liar even though you've got no proof, and things like that, you've left the 'fan' zone.

How so?

I remember a lot of members hating Plummer a lot back when he was the Broncos starting QB. Guess what? They're still here cheering for the Broncos.

Northman
08-31-2009, 12:42 AM
All the packer fans around here are all giddy.

Yea, my best friend is a pack fan and he is really excited about their chances this year. He hates it that Favre is in Minny but says they will be tough to contend with anyway.

sneakers
08-31-2009, 12:46 AM
Yea, my best friend is a pack fan and he is really excited about their chances this year. He hates it that Favre is in Minny but says they will be tough to contend with anyway.

Packer fans don't seem too upset about favre (however I am in southern WI; people in Northern wisconsin are a little more militant when it comes to the vikings/packers rivalry), because they feel they have a better team now that he has been gone for a year.

Tempus Fugit
08-31-2009, 12:55 AM
I'm referencing to the "one person" I'm aware of that was now actively rooting against the team. You have used the term "many" which has not yet been backed.

I can't really make sense of what you are trying to say here so I'll just reword what I did: the Cutler issue blew up about as fast as it ended. He is a franchise QB. By comparison, Marshall has made it clear where he wants to be and his situation has dragged on for months. He is a WR. We are going the distance with Marshall, with Cutler it was a done deal instantly; so yes, it was at a drop of a hat.

I backed my statements, is it so much for you to do the same, particularly if you're going to call me "willfully blind"?

My original claim was that McDaniels was egotistical, not how he is to play for. You disputed that initially, but now accept it.

Yes.

How so?

I remember a lot of members hating Plummer a lot back when he was the Broncos starting QB. Guess what? They're still here cheering for the Broncos.

This is ridiculous:

"I don't see any pessimists taking pleasure in their perceived facts " morphed into "I'm referencing to the "one person" I'm aware of that was now actively rooting against the team. You have used the term "many" which has not yet been backed."

If you can't just admit you were wrong and leave it at that, there's no point continuing this. You said there were none. You were wrong, so you try to turn it around and make it about my response and the word "many". I'm not going to point to individuals, as I've already noted. The Mods have asked us to avoid personal attacks, and pointing that stuff out might be taken that way.

I will respond to one more thing, as I leave this thread:


My original claim was that McDaniels was egotistical, not how he is to play for. You disputed that initially, but now accept it.


I do not accept it, and I did not accept it in my post. Everyone with any sense of self has an ego. that's definitional. That doesn't mean that McDaniels is egotistical. That's also definitional. This is yet another example of the fudging I was referring to regarding the 'pessimists'.

Watchthemiddle
08-31-2009, 12:58 AM
So Cutler can have an ego bigger than Denver, but its a sin if a 33 year old head coach has one?

;) Gotcha.

No sense.

LoyalSoldier
08-31-2009, 01:06 AM
So Cutler can have an ego bigger than Denver, but its a sin if a 33 year old head coach has one?

;) Gotcha.

No sense.

To be honest though. I would rather have a football player with an ego (Not that it is rare for them to have egos) than a coach with the power to make personnel decisions.

NameUsedBefore
08-31-2009, 01:09 AM
This is ridiculous:

"I don't see any pessimists taking pleasure in their perceived facts " morphed into "I'm referencing to the "one person" I'm aware of that was now actively rooting against the team. You have used the term "many" which has not yet been backed."

If you can't just admit you were wrong and leave it at that, there's no point continuing this. You said there were none. You were wrong, so you try to turn it around and make it about my response and the word "many". I'm not going to point to individuals, as I've already noted. The Mods have asked us to avoid personal attacks, and pointing that stuff out might be taken that way.

Huh? In my original post I state, in bold, that I do know of one person that is rooting against the team.

Here is the quote,


Nobody, well there is one I can think of, is turning against the Broncos.



I do not accept it, and I did not accept it in my post. Everyone with any sense of self has an ego. that's definitional. That doesn't mean that McDaniels is egotistical. That's also definitional. This is yet another example of the fudging I was referring to regarding the 'pessimists'.

If it's definitional, why do you keep disparaging those who take a different view? "Yeah it's up to personal views, but if you don't agree with me you're a non-fan."

Literally exactly what this whole thread is about.

Shazam!
08-31-2009, 01:10 AM
Ya know what, most rational Broncos fans are fine. Like nobody heard all the boos Cutler got all of a sudden? Real fans support the team first and the players second, especially when they practically **** the organization over.

Nature Boy
08-31-2009, 01:12 AM
So Cutler can have an ego bigger than Denver, but its a sin if a 33 year old head coach has one?

;) Gotcha.

No sense.


The difference is Cutler was our 1st draft pick and our Franchise QB who made the pro bowl at 25 yrs old.

McDanials is just some snot nose egomaniac kid with zero HC experience that reaped all his success from the hooded one. A kid who thinks his system alone is better than the personnel required to run it. Who thinks he can win with Royal and Stokely as 1 & 2; neither of whom has the skills be be #1 WRs in any team in the NFL.

.

Tempus Fugit
08-31-2009, 01:20 AM
If it's definitional, why do you keep disparaging those who take a different view? "Yeah it's up to personal views, but if you don't agree with me you're a non-fan."

Literally exactly what this whole thread is about.

Ok, I had to come back to respond to this......

It's definitional:

Ego


the “I” or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ego

Egotistical


e⋅go⋅tis⋅tic
–adjective
1. pertaining to or characterized by egotism.
2. given to talking about oneself; vain; boastful; opinionated.
3. indifferent to the well-being of others; selfish.
Also, e⋅go⋅tis⋅ti⋅cal.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/egotistical

They are two different words, with two different meanings, BY DEFINITION. Having an ego is not the same as being egotistical.

The other part you're now trying to claim innocence about is you applying one part of your post when I was quoting a different part:


I don't see any pessimists taking pleasure in their perceived facts, with that said, here are "the facts":



Nobody, well there is one I can think of, is turning against the Broncos.

Two distinct parts of your O.P. Now, before you decide to play 'sleight of hand' with yet another post, I'm out of here.

NameUsedBefore
08-31-2009, 01:48 AM
First, you really need to be more clear. I'm having a difficult time trying to figure out just what point you are trying to make. Particularly with saying I'm failing to admit something; I'm still not entirely sure what you're accusing me of since the accusations have been so messy.


Anyway,

Yes, I know they're two different words. When I said McDaniels was egotistical your response was that he was a joy to play with. Those don't correlate. You still then maintain that saying he's egotistical puts you up for being a "non-fan", but as of yet have not refuted the very point other than to say he is a joy to play with.


As for the other part... I'm failing to see why it is so important when it's clearly a case of bad grammar in the original post, not a case of reneging or backsliding. I should have stated that in general pessimists are not taking pleasure, but I know of a few. Other than that you and every other poster being dickish have completely ignored the overall direction of the thread, instead bolstering the very thing I am talking about.


You, and others, have made some rather feisty accusations and as of yet have not backed them. You want to play semantics all day? Fine. But, please, do answer some of the more pertinent questions I have been asking. You've attacked the grammar of my posts, but not the substance. Luckily for me I didn't make a thread about grammar and English, but about Broncos fans playing "fan police" and attacking others for saying what they believe.

Watchthemiddle
08-31-2009, 01:59 AM
The difference is Cutler was our 1st draft pick and our Franchise QB who made the pro bowl at 25 yrs old.

McDanials is just some snot nose egomaniac kid with zero HC experience that reaped all his success from the hooded one. A kid who thinks his system alone is better than the personnel required to run it. Who thinks he can win with Royal and Stokely as 1 & 2; neither of whom has the skills be be #1 WRs in any team in the NFL.

.

Nope...Cutler still gets booed.

And in case you forgot...Cutler is the one who asked for a trade.

TIA,

WTM

MasterShake
08-31-2009, 04:09 AM
Just my opinion of course, but if Cutler wanted to be a Bronco, he would still be a Bronco. Carmelo Anthony heard of trade talks involving him. He sat down with management, cleared the air, then came back and proved why they were wrong.

As a Broncos fan I'm not naive enough to say we weren't a better team with Cutler, but I'm also not convinced we were a better TEAM with him. I want to cheer on guys that want to be here. I'll gladly spill my beer as Eddie Royal busts open a big play. I'll scream at my T.V. when Dumervil gets a sack. What I wont do is cry over someone who made his decision. We can argue all day about how he left or why, the fact is he's gone.

I have as much control over who plays for this team as I do the wind or the ocean. Players will come and go, but the one thing I can rely on is that my ass will be watching my team every weekend.

I miss having Cutler around, I really do and I agree with NUB and others in many ways but I can't keep living in the past. The season is right around the corner, lets just see what happens. We have all next offseason to cheer or cry in our beer.

sneakers
08-31-2009, 05:00 AM
Tim Hiller is going to be our quarterback of the future guys. You can all get on the bandwagon right now because we all know you'd be on his heuvos after the fact. Look him up. Tell 'em Uncle Cicero sentcha.

I don't trust anyone who you can switch around the letters in their name and spell "hitler"

sneakers
08-31-2009, 05:01 AM
Nope...Cutler still gets booed.

And in case you forgot...Cutler is the one who asked for a trade.

TIA,

WTM

and booing is much more fun than cheering anyway!

MasterShake
08-31-2009, 05:06 AM
I don't trust anyone who you can switch around the letters in their name and spell "hitler"

And I don't trust anyone who can rearrange the letters in their username to spell ASS REEK N. :lol:

Elevation inc
08-31-2009, 05:07 AM
Just my opinion of course, but if Cutler wanted to be a Bronco, he would still be a Bronco. Carmelo Anthony heard of trade talks involving him. He sat down with management, cleared the air, then came back and proved why they were wrong.

As a Broncos fan I'm not naive enough to say we weren't a better team with Cutler, but I'm also not convinced we were a better TEAM with him. I want to cheer on guys that want to be here. I'll gladly spill my beer as Eddie Royal busts open a big play. I'll scream at my T.V. when Dumervil gets a sack. What I wont do is cry over someone who made his decision. We can argue all day about how he left or why, the fact is he's gone.

I have as much control over who plays for this team as I do the wind or the ocean. Players will come and go, but the one thing I can rely on is that my ass will be watching my team every weekend.




I miss having Cutler around, I really do and I agree with NUB and others in many ways but I can't keep living in the past. The season is right around the corner, lets just see what happens. We have all next offseason to cheer or cry in our beer.


GREAT POST!!!!!:salute:

claymore
08-31-2009, 06:17 AM
I would like to say the "real" fans like to make personal attacks. If Nature boy said half the shit about them, he would be banned.

2nd, The "real" fans Bring up Cutler and Shannahan more than most of the pessimists.

I will never root against the Broncos, but I damn sure will not lie to myself and say this is a good team. Or that JMCD has this team going in the right direction.

MasterShake
08-31-2009, 06:25 AM
I would like to say the "real" fans like to make personal attacks. If Nature boy said half the shit about them, he would be banned.

2nd, The "real" fans Bring up Cutler and Shannahan more than most of the pessimists.

I will never root against the Broncos, but I damn sure will not lie to myself and say this is a good team. Or that JMCD has this team going in the right direction.

I don't question the fandom of anyone, nor do I think we have a great team. I'm just sick of talking about things that are out of my control. I know anyone who criticizes the Broncos just want them to succeed, we all do.

claymore
08-31-2009, 06:36 AM
I don't question the fandom of anyone, nor do I think we have a great team. I'm just sick of talking about things that are out of my control. I know anyone who criticizes the Broncos just want them to succeed, we all do.

I am trying to find positives. :(

Thnikkaman
08-31-2009, 06:50 AM
I am trying to find positives. :(

Find distractions. We miss the fun Clay.

Northman
08-31-2009, 06:52 AM
To be honest though. I would rather have a football player with an ego (Not that it is rare for them to have egos) than a coach with the power to make personnel decisions.

Yea, god forbid a buy like Belichek has one and has 3 rings to boot. Hmm, Shanny had an ego too. Interesting. I know, McD hasnt done anything right? Neither has Cutler.

Northman
08-31-2009, 06:55 AM
I want to cheer on guys that want to be here. I'll gladly spill my beer as Eddie Royal busts open a big play. I'll scream at my T.V. when Dumervil gets a sack. What I wont do is cry over someone who made his decision.

^this

Tned
08-31-2009, 06:55 AM
Just my opinion of course, but if Cutler wanted to be a Bronco, he would still be a Bronco. Carmelo Anthony heard of trade talks involving him. He sat down with management, cleared the air, then came back and proved why they were wrong.

As a Broncos fan I'm not naive enough to say we weren't a better team with Cutler, but I'm also not convinced we were a better TEAM with him. I want to cheer on guys that want to be here. I'll gladly spill my beer as Eddie Royal busts open a big play. I'll scream at my T.V. when Dumervil gets a sack. What I wont do is cry over someone who made his decision. We can argue all day about how he left or why, the fact is he's gone.

I have as much control over who plays for this team as I do the wind or the ocean. Players will come and go, but the one thing I can rely on is that my ass will be watching my team every weekend.

I miss having Cutler around, I really do and I agree with NUB and others in many ways but I can't keep living in the past. The season is right around the corner, lets just see what happens. We have all next offseason to cheer or cry in our beer.

People have rehashed how the trade went down countless times, but one of the big questions that resurfaces tonght is why.

What head coach in his right mind would want to trade Cutler for Cassel?

CoachChaz
08-31-2009, 06:58 AM
People have rehashed how the trade went down countless times, but one of the big questions that resurfaces tonght is why.

What head coach in his right mind would want to trade Cutler for Cassel?

At random? Probably none. So the question now becomes, what prompted Josh to consider trading Jay to begin with?

Northman
08-31-2009, 07:00 AM
People have rehashed how the trade went down countless times, but one of the big questions that resurfaces tonght is why.

What head coach in his right mind would want to trade Cutler for Cassel?


To see what he was worth and test the market. Doesnt mean it was a good decision but as i pointed out a while back if someone is going to offer you the farm and you have a lot of areas of need you have to explore those options. To ignore it wouldnt be very smart.

Elevation inc
08-31-2009, 07:01 AM
I would like to say the "real" fans like to make personal attacks. If Nature boy said half the shit about them, he would be banned.

2nd, The "real" fans Bring up Cutler and Shannahan more than most of the pessimists.

I will never root against the Broncos, but I damn sure will not lie to myself and say this is a good team. Or that JMCD has this team going in the right direction.

MCD has the team and the philosophy headed in the right direction....the offense with orton at the helm though???? not so much

Elevation inc
08-31-2009, 07:04 AM
At random? Probably none. So the question now becomes, what prompted Josh to consider trading Jay to begin with?

he is a clown:lol:......that felt his system was better than talent the same way shanny felt the running system outweighed running talent....as we all saw eventually that shit just doesnt fly...lol

regardless orton is clearly not the answer even if it is only 3 pre-season games....brandstater worked chicagos first string d much more that orton did with legit throws and he has been in the leauge less than six months...

im very concerned right now with kyle as our Qb and we have alot to fret about as fans regarding the starting offense with orton at helm...

CoachChaz
08-31-2009, 07:13 AM
he is a clown:lol:......that felt his system was better than talent the same way shanny felt the running system outweighed running talent....as we all saw eventually that shit just doesnt fly...lol

regardless orton is clearly not the answer even if it is only 3 pre-season games....brandstater worked chicagos first string d much more that orton did with legit throws and he has been in the leauge less than six months...

im very concerned right now with kyle as our Qb and we have alot to fret about as fans regarding the starting offense with orton at helm...

You did what I expected no one to do. You answered a question that simply CANNOT be answered.

Elevation inc
08-31-2009, 07:19 AM
every question has a answer maybe we cant see it but its there.......and the clown part should have showed a mild attempt at humor.......

CoachChaz
08-31-2009, 07:25 AM
every question has a answer maybe we cant see it but its there.......and the clown part should have showed a mild attempt at humor.......

I ignore the names. Whether they be joke or intent, I dont pay attention to them.

Elevation inc
08-31-2009, 07:26 AM
clown is meant as a term of endearment in my vocabulary.....seriously....

Jaws
08-31-2009, 09:10 AM
Who needs the Faiders, Bolts and Queefs when we can have so much fun smacking each other!

Elevation inc
08-31-2009, 09:12 AM
Who needs the Faiders, Bolts and Queefs when we can have so much fun smacking each other!

well we could keep going after orton but that crap seems so yesterday...lol

LoyalSoldier
08-31-2009, 02:22 PM
Yea, god forbid a buy like Belichek has one and has 3 rings to boot. Hmm, Shanny had an ego too. Interesting. I know, McD hasnt done anything right? Neither has Cutler.

There is having an ego and having one so strong you can't see past your nose. If that is the case then I would rather have a player with one since something can be done about it (in this case Cutler got the door) than a coach because the coach can run the team into the ground faster than a player can.

Northman
08-31-2009, 03:19 PM
There is having an ego and having one so strong you can't see past your nose. If that is the case then I would rather have a player with one since something can be done about it (in this case Cutler got the door) than a coach because the coach can run the team into the ground faster than a player can.

I seriously doubt Bowlen has given him that much leash.

LoyalSoldier
08-31-2009, 03:24 PM
I seriously doubt Bowlen has given him that much leash.

Then again he gave Shanahan that much leash. So who is to say? Also the problem stems from who gets to called the plays and who has input on personnel?

Northman
08-31-2009, 03:29 PM
Then again he gave Shanahan that much leash. So who is to say? Also the problem stems from who gets to called the plays and who has input on personnel?

The reason i mention it is because the biggest reason Mikey was fired was because he wasnt getting them over the hump. Now, i dont fully expect Bowlen to fire McD if we have a losing record this year but i do think that Bowlen expects to be a playoff contender within 2-3. That really doesnt give McDaniels a lot of time to turn this bus around.

topscribe
08-31-2009, 03:30 PM
At random? Probably none. So the question now becomes, what prompted Josh to consider trading Jay to begin with?

Once again, what give us the idea anything prompted him to consider it, except
for media sensationalism?

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