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View Full Version : Do all college players HAVE to enter the draft to get on a team?



olathebroncofan
04-07-2013, 10:59 PM
Kind of a long question, here goes...

Often you here about a player that would have flourished if said player was drafted t a different team. Say maybe if Tebow was drafted later, and to a team that was already set up for a running type QB, or Akili Smith, Cade, Tim Couch and all those guys might have flourished, or at least done better, if drafted to a different team. So what if a player that is in college knows that he is not suited in a certain system (RG3 in Denver's system, or Luck running chip Kelly's offense)? Why cant instead of going into the draft, why cant he just come out of college and choose what team he would like to apply/tryout/workout for. What if (enter top rated college RB Here) was a die hard Broncos fan, and knowing that Denver has a need at RB, decided to forgo the draft, and try to sign with Denver early. Maybe after the college and NFL season instead of going to the draft. Maybe it's a simple answer like more money if you get drafted, or "everyone would be running to winning organizations (see above RB example)".



If those are the answers then fine, but is there a rule that states that all new players have to enter the draft?

BroncoWave
04-07-2013, 11:13 PM
I googled and I couldn't find the answer. I would assume they have to though or else you would see players forego it to sign wherever they wanted to.

The only thing I could really find said that if a player refuses to play for the team who drafts him, he can sit out the season and enter the draft again next year. It doesn't look like you can skip the draft process entirely.

I can't find any examples of a player ever being signed by an NFL team without first entering the draft.

MOtorboat
04-07-2013, 11:16 PM
If they are drafted in the seven round draft a team holds exclusive rights to negotiate with the player for one year.

It's more about the collective bargaining agreement than the college player's ability to "opt out."

Joel
04-08-2013, 02:26 AM
"everyone would be running to winning organizations (see above RB example)".
It's that, or was initially. The Hidden Game of Football had a nice overview in the chapter on "The Draft Dodge:" Before he was NFL Commissioner, Bert Bell owned the Eagles, and got so sick of losing each years best players to marquee teams like the Giants and Bears that he dreamed up the draft. Of course, he had to convince the OWNERS of teams like the Giants and Bears to go along, but pointing out that forcing players to sign with whomever drafted them would reduce their payrolls did the trick, especially since revenue sharing didn't exist yet. Thus the NFL Draft was born.

The book goes on to note Bell couldn't afford and didn't sign the original #1 overall pick (Jay Berwanger,) but traded Chicago the RIGHTS for a couple solid linemen. The Bears didn't sign Berwanger either, but did get a couple HoF linemen to replace the ones they traded Philly, so Bell still got screwed. Berwanger, like all his 1936 picks, told the NFL, "thanks, but no thanks," and never played for anyone, but the draft stuck.

It's a HUGE restraint of trade though if you think about it. Imagine the owner of ANY non-sports business telling a college grad, "sorry, you can't work for your favorite company, even though they've got an opening and are offering more money. In fact you can't work for ANYONE but us, at whatever we're willing to pay, because WE drafted you." The kids lawyer would have such a field day with that he'd probably NEVER have to work, period. But the NFL wangled themselves an anti-trust exemption as part of the N/AFL merger, partly by bribing LA senators Russell Long and Hale Boggs to vote for it in exchange for creating the Saints.

I knew players could skip the draft if they skipped their rookie year, but what BtB said about still having to re-enter the draft was news to me. It makes sense though; the teams still don't want to have to outbid each other for each player in each college class, so they might agree to re-draft them after a year, but not to free agency. And until/unless the courts overule say it's unconstitutional (unlikely,) that's that.

Dapper Dan
04-08-2013, 06:50 AM
Good question. I've always wondered the same thing. I assumed you had to go through the draft or supplemental draft to get into the league. It seems like there could possibly be loopholes. I don't know. Like if Michael Jordan had chose football instead of baseball. Would he really have to enter a draft?

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 09:22 AM
Good question. I've always wondered the same thing. I assumed you had to go through the draft or supplemental draft to get into the league. It seems like there could possibly be loopholes. I don't know. Like if Michael Jordan had chose football instead of baseball. Would he really have to enter a draft?

As far as I know, yes. I have looked for an example of an NFL player signing with a team without ever having entered the draft but I can't find one.

Nomad
04-08-2013, 10:15 AM
That dude from Philadelphia walked on to the Eagles...granted that was the 70s and I'm not sure if he went to college. I don't know if any team is worth missing out on the money you'd be missing out on by not being drafted.

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 10:17 AM
That dude from Philadelphia walked on to the Eagles...granted that was the 70s and I'm not sure if he went to college. I don't know if any team is worth missing out on the money you'd be missing out on by not being drafted.

You think if a player like Andrew Luck were able to forego the draft, he would have made less money? I think he would have made more. Think of the bidding war that would have happened for his services.

BroncoJoe
04-08-2013, 01:20 PM
I remember there being some kind of a rule requiring those who choose not to enter the draft to be ineligible for a couple years. Don't remember how long, but it was definitely more than one year.

Dapper Dan
04-08-2013, 01:59 PM
As far as I know, yes. I have looked for an example of an NFL player signing with a team without ever having entered the draft but I can't find one.

Wouldn't there be something where a player like Michael Jordan gave up his amateur status to become a professional athlete? Other than Cam Newton, I'm thinking professional athletes can't enter the draft.

Ravage!!!
04-08-2013, 02:07 PM
If you play college ball, then teams know your name. You HAVE to let the NCAA know if you are coming back to college, or, moving on to pro. If they inform the NCAA that they are not going to return to play college football, then you are eligible to be drafted by the NFL. If any team calls your name, then you are drafted by that team, and they have the rights to you. You don't even have to be a college athlete to be drafted, but if your name is called out, that NFL franchise has the rights for your contract if you decide to play in the NFL. If you decide to skip that year, then you can take your chances on another team drafting you again after you sat out, but there might be something that gives the original NFL team first rights to you.

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 02:09 PM
Wouldn't there be something where a player like Michael Jordan gave up his amateur status to become a professional athlete? Other than Cam Newton, I'm thinking professional athletes can't enter the draft.

You may be right. I can't think of an example where an athlete has tried to move from one pro sport to the NFL though.

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 02:14 PM
I found the answer. Apparently if you are already a pro athlete in one sport, you don't have to enter the draft.

An excerpt from this ESPN article on if LeBron wanted to join the NFL:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4194437


If he wanted to enter the NFL, he wouldn't have to declare for the draft. He'd be free to sign with any team.

Dapper Dan
04-08-2013, 02:16 PM
You may be right. I can't think of an example where an athlete has tried to move from one pro sport to the NFL though.

Then again...what about players that dabble in the minor leagues like Elway and then declare for the draft. I didn't think of that until just now.




Obviously, in the end, it doesn't matter. I've just yet to see the rule stating that a player must declare for the draft to be signed by an NFL team at any time later on. I'd just like to see that somewhere, with something to back it up.

claymore
04-08-2013, 02:25 PM
You may be right. I can't think of an example where an athlete has tried to move from one pro sport to the NFL though.

Bo Jackson is the only guy that comes to mind in a similar scenario.

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 02:34 PM
Bo Jackson is the only guy that comes to mind in a similar scenario.

He was still picked in the NFL draft after college though.

Ravage!!!
04-08-2013, 02:35 PM
Then again...what about players that dabble in the minor leagues like Elway and then declare for the draft. I didn't think of that until just now.




Obviously, in the end, it doesn't matter. I've just yet to see the rule stating that a player must declare for the draft to be signed by an NFL team at any time later on. I'd just like to see that somewhere, with something to back it up.

That's not what Elway did.. "dabble in the minor leages." He was drafted by the NY Yankees, although preferred to play football. So he stated that he would NOT play for a certain person that coached the Colts and would not play if drafted. If they did, he would go play baseball instead. So, when the Colts drafted him, that's exactly the steps he took.... then the Colts did what they could to get SOMETHING in return, and traded Elway to the Broncos.

So you are not "declaring" for the draft. Thats just what they call it when an amatuer player is declaring that he's no longer going to play amatuer football at the college level. He's "declaring" that he's going pro, which, makes him ineligible for NCAA football. ANYONE can be drafted. Track players, baseball players, wrestlers, or people off the street playing sandlot football. But once your name is called out from a certain team making their selection, then they have the rights to you (as a football player) for a year. In Elway's case, he could have played baseball for a year and then re-entered the draft.

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 02:41 PM
That's not what Elway did.. "dabble in the minor leages." He was drafted by the NY Yankees, although preferred to play football. So he stated that he would NOT play for a certain person that coached the Colts and would not play if drafted. If they did, he would go play baseball instead. So, when the Colts drafted him, that's exactly the steps he took.... then the Colts did what they could to get SOMETHING in return, and traded Elway to the Broncos.

So you are not "declaring" for the draft. Thats just what they call it when an amatuer player is declaring that he's no longer going to play amatuer football at the college level. He's "declaring" that he's going pro, which, makes him ineligible for NCAA football. ANYONE can be drafted. Track players, baseball players, wrestlers, or people off the street playing sandlot football. But once your name is called out from a certain team making their selection, then they have the rights to you (as a football player) for a year. In Elway's case, he could have played baseball for a year and then re-entered the draft.

So would you say in LeBron's case he was not eligible to play in the NFL until being in the NBA for 3 years (3 years after HS graduation) and once he was not drafted that year by any NFL team that year he then became free to sign with any NFL team he would want to in the future?

That's how I interpret the rule myself.

Ravage!!!
04-08-2013, 02:47 PM
So would you say in LeBron's case he was not eligible to play in the NFL until being in the NBA for 3 years (3 years after HS graduation) and once he was not drafted that year by any NFL team that year he then became free to sign with any NFL team he would want to in the future?

That's how I interpret the rule myself.

YES...absolutely. Since Lebron was out of amatuer sports, and (as you pointed out) past the 3 year HS graduation cut-off...if (since) no one called his name on the NFL draft podium, he could have "walked on" as an undrafted free-agent.

claymore
04-08-2013, 02:49 PM
He was still picked in the NFL draft after college though.

True, but he was drafted twice. First time he said get bent to Tampa.

Dapper Dan
04-08-2013, 02:58 PM
YES...absolutely. Since Lebron was out of amatuer sports, and (as you pointed out) past the 3 year HS graduation cut-off...if (since) no one called his name on the NFL draft podium, he could have "walked on" as an undrafted free-agent.

So you're saying that a team could have drafted LeBron James with the very last pick in the NFL draft and so they would have owned his rights, even though he obviously would play basketball? At which point would the team draft LeBron? After the 3 year mark?

Dapper Dan
04-08-2013, 03:03 PM
That's not what Elway did.. "dabble in the minor leages." He was drafted by the NY Yankees, although preferred to play football. So he stated that he would NOT play for a certain person that coached the Colts and would not play if drafted. If they did, he would go play baseball instead. So, when the Colts drafted him, that's exactly the steps he took.... then the Colts did what they could to get SOMETHING in return, and traded Elway to the Broncos.

So you are not "declaring" for the draft. Thats just what they call it when an amatuer player is declaring that he's no longer going to play amatuer football at the college level. He's "declaring" that he's going pro, which, makes him ineligible for NCAA football. ANYONE can be drafted. Track players, baseball players, wrestlers, or people off the street playing sandlot football. But once your name is called out from a certain team making their selection, then they have the rights to you (as a football player) for a year. In Elway's case, he could have played baseball for a year and then re-entered the draft.

You keep repeating that if a team calls your name, they own you. I get that. That's not what the question is.

Do you have to enter the draft to enter the NFL? If you don't enter the draft, can a team still call your name?

If Andrew Luck didn't contact the NFL and didn't get an agent and didn't do anything NFL related. A team thinks he's good. Do they draft him to own his rights? Can he get his name called even if he doesn't plan on playing in the NFL right then? After the draft can he be a free agent and sign with any team? Or does he have to enter the NFL draft to be eligible to be signed to an NFL team?

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 03:10 PM
So you're saying that a team could have drafted LeBron James with the very last pick in the NFL draft and so they would have owned his rights, even though he obviously would play basketball? At which point would the team draft LeBron? After the 3 year mark?

They could have but they would have only had his rights for one year.

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 03:12 PM
You keep repeating that if a team calls your name, they own you. I get that. That's not what the question is.

Do you have to enter the draft to enter the NFL? If you don't enter the draft, can a team still call your name?

If Andrew Luck didn't contact the NFL and didn't get an agent and didn't do anything NFL related. A team thinks he's good. Do they draft him to own his rights? Can he get his name called even if he doesn't plan on playing in the NFL right then? After the draft can he be a free agent and sign with any team? Or does he have to enter the NFL draft to be eligible to be signed to an NFL team?

To the best I understand it, you do not have to enter. Whenever you are first eligible to be drafted (3 years out of HS, no longer an amateur athlete) your name is automatically put in the draft pool. A team can draft you whether you like it or not and they hold your rights for a year. If you don't sign, you enter the draft again the next year.

If you don't get drafted when you are eligible to, you are from then on a free agent.

Dapper Dan
04-08-2013, 03:12 PM
They could have but they would have only had his rights for one year.

Then the very next year a team does it again.

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 03:34 PM
Then the very next year a team does it again.

Theoretically, yes they could. I find it highly unlikely that that scenario would ever play out though.

MOtorboat
04-08-2013, 06:13 PM
Theoretically, yes they could. I find it highly unlikely that that scenario would ever play out though.

Not in football, but it does happen in baseball all the time.

Luke Hochevar sat out a year and re-entered the amateur player draft. Rules are completely different for baseball on the draft, but it's a similar situation. Mark Appel is doing the same thing this year. Now, baseball careers are typically much longer than football careers, which makes it unlikely to ever happen in football.

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 06:19 PM
Not in football, but it does happen in baseball all the time.

Luke Hochevar sat out a year and re-entered the amateur player draft. Rules are completely different for baseball on the draft, but it's a similar situation. Mark Appel is doing the same thing this year. Now, baseball careers are typically much longer than football careers, which makes it unlikely to ever happen in football.

That, and the baseball draft has 40 rounds, so a team can afford to blow a pick on a random player who will likely never play there. Hell like two years ago a team drafted a paralyzed college player just as a ceremonial gesture.

MOtorboat
04-08-2013, 06:20 PM
That, and the baseball draft has 40 rounds, so a team can afford to blow a pick on a random player who will likely never play there. Hell like two years ago a team drafted a paralyzed college player just as a ceremonial gesture.

Well, yeah. And the sons of general managers and coaches and the like. But I'm referencing well-documented first round picks.

BroncoWave
04-08-2013, 06:23 PM
Well, yeah. And the sons of general managers and coaches and the like. But I'm referencing well-documented first round picks.

Oh I see. But yeah, given how short NFL careers are and how easy it is to sustain a career-ending injury, no one is going to forego a year of making money to play football if they don't have to.

MOtorboat
04-08-2013, 06:25 PM
Oh I see. But yeah, given how short NFL careers are and how easy it is to sustain a career-ending injury, no one is going to forego a year of making money to play football if they don't have to.

Yes, which was the rest of my post.

But there's an example of it happening, albeit in a different sport.

Joel
04-09-2013, 07:05 AM
Night Train Lane was a training camp walk on, as Jason Garret more recently was, but only because no one drafted them. It's very unlikely anyone good enough to win a starting spot as a walk on and have a HoF career manages to aviod being drafted. About the only way it could happen now is if a guy had a stellar college career but very vocally and publicly refused to play for anyone. Even then the chance NONE of 224 draft picks were spent on him, even in the last rounds, would be small. Even after Elway told the Colts he'd NEVER play for them AND got drafted by the Yankees he was STILL the #1 overall pick.

Bottom line is if a team drafts a player they own his rights, but after the draft anyone left can become an UDFA. Sometimes that includes HoFers, but only rarely.

weazel
04-09-2013, 11:12 AM
a person doesn't "enter the draft"

a player plays in college, and after a certain amount of years he is eligible to be drafted by a team in the NFL (or any league). If you are not drafted, you are a UFA
You can opt to make yourself eligible for the draft early, but the same rules apply. Players get drafted by many leagues each year, not just the NFL... the MLB, CFL, also draft the same players if they think the player may choose to go there.

A team drafting a player is just stating to the leagues governors that they own the players rights... nothing more.
If a drafted player doesnt sign with the team in a year they can be drafted in the next draft.

Ravage!!!
04-09-2013, 01:05 PM
You keep repeating that if a team calls your name, they own you. I get that. That's not what the question is.

Do you have to enter the draft to enter the NFL? If you don't enter the draft, can a team still call your name?

If Andrew Luck didn't contact the NFL and didn't get an agent and didn't do anything NFL related. A team thinks he's good. Do they draft him to own his rights? Can he get his name called even if he doesn't plan on playing in the NFL right then? After the draft can he be a free agent and sign with any team? Or does he have to enter the NFL draft to be eligible to be signed to an NFL team?

Sorry DB, I was away from the site for the weekend. I think you've gotten the answer...which is what I did keep repeating. ANYONE can be drafted (as long as they are three years from their HS graduation). You don't have to "enter" the draft. When a college player announces that he's no longer playing NCAA football, he's not really "declaring" for the draft, he's simply declaring that he's ELIGIBLE to be drafted since he's "renounced" his amatuer statis. If you are out of HS for three years, you can be drafted...you don't have to "sign up" for the draft. Which is why I kept saying "ANYONE can be drafted." Whether or not they decide to play, or, don't make the team is a different story.

And, as I believe has already been answered. If Andrew Luck didn't want to play for the Colts, he could have sat out a year and then re-entered the draft the next year (wouldn't KC be happy if he did that!). Guys like Andrew Luck would have been ok because he STILL would have been the #1 overall pick had he done that, but generally speaking, not only would you lose a ton of respect in the NFL, you could lose MILLIONS of dollars that you most probably would never make up in your career (although with the new rookie salary cap, I suppose you could).

**EDIT: Weazel above states it better

BroncoWave
04-09-2013, 01:11 PM
Has it ever been done in the NFL? A player sitting out a year and being re-drafted? You'd think over the history of the league at least one guy would do it.

MOtorboat
04-09-2013, 04:15 PM
Has it ever been done in the NFL? A player sitting out a year and being re-drafted? You'd think over the history of the league at least one guy would do it.

Bo Jackson.

BroncoJoe
04-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Bo Jackson.

Beat me to it.

weazel
04-09-2013, 05:03 PM
here's a list of players I found that re-entered the draft after not signing with the original team...

Craig Erickson (Phil., Tampa Bay) 1991-92
Bo Jackson (Tampa Bay, L.A. Raiders) 1986-87
Melvin Bratton (Miami, Denver) 1988-89
Matt Darwin (Dallas, Phil.) 1985-86
Monroe Eley (K.C., Atlanta) 1973-74
John Tate (NY Jets, NY Giants) 1974-75
Brownie Wheless (Miami, Detroit) 1970-71
Chris Myers (Houston, Miami) 1970-71

I think there is a clause in the rules that if a player has been chosen twice (chosen in two drafts) in the entry draft and has not come to terms with either team, he is therefore a UFA and can sign with anyone the next season.