Is The NBA Rigging Games To Get The Lakers In The Playoffs?

[MasterShake]

I think we all believe this on some level, but I wonder if there is any truth to it? I believe the audio is from a recent radio interview:

YZatX_6i5WY

[Davii]

I've never heard such a ridiculous question Shake. Of course they are.

[MasterShake]

I've never heard such a ridiculous question Shake. Of course they are.

I know. I was really trying to pose a provocative question to an answer that everyone knows and failed miserably. Its a slow day at work and I hate the Lakers. There, I said it!

[Thnikkaman]

Do you



Hate the Dodgers too?

[FanInAZ]

The NBA has been rigging games for their superstars since at least the 90's. That's why I now hold it in lower regard then professional wrestling, who will at least admit what they’re doing is fake.

[BroncoWave]

I've never believed conspiracy theories about leagues rigging games. It would just take ONE person in the NBA office to be rubbed the wrong way by Davis Stern, and come out and expose everything. The risk just isn't worth the reward of having an 8 seed Lakers team in the playoffs that will likely lose in the first round. It just doesn't make sense to do if you seriously think about it.

[Thnikkaman]

I've never believed conspiracy theories about leagues rigging games. It would just take ONE person in the NBA office to be rubbed the wrong way by Davis Stern, and come out and expose everything. The risk just isn't worth the reward of having an 8 seed Lakers team in the playoffs that will likely lose in the first round. It just doesn't make sense to do if you seriously think about it.

Do you realize how much revenue the NBA stands to make if the Lakers make it into the playoffs, and become one of the few 8 seed teems to make it to the conference finals?

[BroncoWave]

Do you realize how much revenue the NBA stands to make if the Lakers make it into the playoffs, and become one of the few 8 seed teems to make it to the conference finals?

The chances of the Lakers making the conference finals is incredibly low. And the NBA isn't exactly hurting for revenues. The reward of rigging games just isn't worth the risk.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

League admits Kobe fouled Rubio on final shot

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/28/league-admits-kobe-fouled-rubio-on-final-shot/

If the league is trying to get the Lakers to the playoffs, that should mean that tomorrow night the Utah Jazz should not get all of the calls they do at home when playing the Nuggets.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The chances of the Lakers making the conference finals is incredibly low. And the NBA isn't exactly hurting for revenues. The reward of rigging games just isn't worth the risk.

The question was not conference finals - but the Lakers making the playoffs. There is a very close race in the West for the 8th spot, and the Lakers are in the race.

[BroncoWave]

The question was not conference finals - but the Lakers making the playoffs. There is a very close race in the West for the 8th spot, and the Lakers are in the race.

Thnik brought up conference finals, I was just responding to him. My point is I don't see how the Lakers being in the playoffs as an 8 seed is worth the risk of being exposed for rigging games. Anyone who has watched them play this year they would have no shot in hell at winning against the Spurs or Thunder in a series.

I need more than circumstantial evidence on a Youtube video to convince me otherwise. Seems to me like 999/1000 conspiracy theories are based more on paranoia and and circumstantial evidence than actual fact.

[MasterShake]

Thnik brought up conference finals, I was just responding to him. My point is I don't see how the Lakers being in the playoffs as an 8 seed is worth the risk of being exposed for rigging games. Anyone who has watched them play this year they would have no shot in hell at winning against the Spurs or Thunder in a series.

I need more than circumstantial evidence on a Youtube video to convince me otherwise. Seems to me like 999/1000 conspiracy theories are based more on paranoia and and circumstantial evidence than actual fact.

I really did post the video as a tongue in cheek response to what most people feel when watching NBA games. While I don't think there is anything that the league is expressly doing to get the Lakers into the playoffs, I do believe there is such a thing as favoritism and "superstar calls" that can swing a close game towards certain teams. I'm not saying there is a grand conspiracy, but it does seem like sometimes the refs swallow their whistles at the wrong time and blow them too readily at other moments. Cherry picking those instances in a youtube video proves nothing, I just wish foul calling in the NBA wasn't so subjective.

[BroncoWave]

I really did post the video as a tongue in cheek response to what most people feel when watching NBA games. While I don't think there is anything that the league is expressly doing to get the Lakers into the playoffs, I do believe there is such a thing as favoritism and "superstar calls" that can swing a close game towards certain teams. I'm not saying there is a grand conspiracy, but it does seem like sometimes the refs swallow their whistles at the wrong time and blow them too readily at other moments. Cherry picking those instances in a youtube video proves nothing, I just wish foul calling in the NBA wasn't so subjective.

I do agree that superstars get more calls. I just don't think it goes as far as the NBA expressly ordering refs to rig games.

[MasterShake]

I do agree that superstars get more calls. I just don't think it goes as far as the NBA expressly ordering refs to rig games.

Nah, like any conspiracy it falls apart due to the fact that no one can keep a secret. The minute some ref felt shafted or got fired they would be asking the media for a lot of money to share their story.

[weazel]

of course they are... it's the NBA, it's worse than the WWE

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I really did post the video as a tongue in cheek response to what most people feel when watching NBA games. While I don't think there is anything that the league is expressly doing to get the Lakers into the playoffs, I do believe there is such a thing as favoritism and "superstar calls" that can swing a close game towards certain teams. I'm not saying there is a grand conspiracy, but it does seem like sometimes the refs swallow their whistles at the wrong time and blow them too readily at other moments. Cherry picking those instances in a youtube video proves nothing, I just wish foul calling in the NBA wasn't so subjective.

I totally agree with you. There are "favored" teams, as well as "favored" players, when it comes to NOT calling fouls, and that just did not start this season.

AND then this:

Tim Donaghy’s Book: Refs Fix Games, Hate Allen Iverson and Raja Bell


We’ve already established that Tim Donaghy is a crooked person who bet on NBA games that he officiated and fixed. Since he’s already been to jail to serve his time and the league never backed him up, he’s out for payback in the worst way possible: he’s written a book about the officiating corruption in the league that names names and cites specific examples. Although the book doesn’t have a publisher currently, excerpts have reached Deadspin and they’re here for our perusal.

First, here are some of the facts. We’ve already recognized that Donaghy was perfect at moving the spread and delivering. Additionally, one of the games we pinpointed as one he fixed even was mentioned in his excerpt. He even said the reason the free throw disparity favored the Knicks so greatly was that one of the officials was super friendly with Isiah Thomas. Makes sense. Anyway, more on the specifics from the book.

Donaghy specifically states that stars got preferential treatment and that lesser-known players like Raja Bell, who was a defensive stopper, got fouls called against him so he couldn’t shut down the stars as well. He also says that Allen Iverson was given a tough time by referees after he criticized Steve Javie. Donaghy specifically names referees and what their motivation was. The strongest charge was against Dick Bavetta, whom Donaghy called a company man that manipulated games and playoff series including the 2002 Western Conference Finals between the Lakers and Kings. Tim also said that referee Tommy Nunez did everything he could to fix the Suns/Spurs ’07 Western Conference playoff series in favor of San Antonio. The Spurs of course went on to win the NBA Finals.

rest - http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/tim-donaghys-book-league-refs-fix-games-hate-allen-iverson-raja-bell/10642
There are places within the article where you can click on something to learn more.

[BroncoWave]

Nah, like any conspiracy it falls apart due to the fact that no one can keep a secret. The minute some ref felt shafted or got fired they would be asking the media for a lot of money to share their story.

Exactly. It just WAY to big a risk for a pro sports league to fix games. Especially for something as meaningless as the Lakers being the 8 seed.

If the NBA was rigging games the Spurs, a boring team in a small market, would not have 4 titles.

[weazel]

just search Tim Donaghy... that will point you in the right direction

[weazel]

Exactly. It just WAY to big a risk for a pro sports league to fix games. Especially for something as meaningless as the Lakers being the 8 seed.

If the NBA was rigging games the Spurs, a boring team in a small market, would not have 4 titles.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvkKdXLwt0U

[Northman]

People still watch the NBA?

[Davii]

of course they are... it's the NBA, it's worse than the WWE

But is it worse than WTE?

[MOtorboat]

The only thing worse than the calls that Kobe Bryant gets are the Duke charge calls.

[chazoe60]

The NBA is made unwatchable by it's refs. Terrible. Anyone remember the first Dallas vs. Miami finals? Or the old Bulls vs. Anybody series' when Jordan could do anything he wanted and practically every shot he put up would send him to the FT line?

The NBA on a legitimacy scale is just this side of professional wrestling.

[MOtorboat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvkKdXLwt0U

Speaking of Ed Rush...bounties for Ts.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/04/02/ed-rush-sean-miller-larry-scott-pac-12-conference-officiating/2047023/

Piece of shit.

[weazel]

But is it worse than WTE?

lol, that's def the worst.

[ShaneFalco]

After watching Laker games and the refs during them, i had to stop watching basketball i was getting so pissed off at the rigged nature of the sport when it comes to late game fouls.

[Poet]

No one gets more calls than LeBron James. You can't defend him because touching him is a foul. Then when he plays D he can hang all over you. The NBA is a bad product. I love my Celtics, but it's awful to watch.

[chazoe60]

I haven't watched an NBA game in its entirety in probably 5 years. I refuse to support Stern's crooked product.

[Dreadnought]

The NBA is made unwatchable by it's refs. Terrible. Anyone remember the first Dallas vs. Miami finals? Or the old Bulls vs. Anybody series' when Jordan could do anything he wanted and practically every shot he put up would send him to the FT line?

The NBA on a legitimacy scale is just this side of professional wrestling.

They lost me way back when they apparently decided that traveling didn't apply to Michael Jordan. The whole problem IMO was David Stern's focus on superstars rather than teams, because of the marketing possibilities. Add in the absurd playoff structure and the League's general toleration of thug behavior and I just checked out

[NightTrainLayne]

They lost me way back when they apparently decided that traveling didn't apply to Michael Jordan. The whole problem IMO was David Stern's focus on superstars rather than teams, because of the marketing possibilities. Add in the absurd playoff structure and the League's general toleration of thug behavior and I just checked out

I quit watching it for year. I have to say that having the Thunder move to town really got me back involved in it, but it is really frustrating watching the officiating, and the relaxation of some of the most fundamental rules.

I always kind of roll my eyes when I see folks arguing that Goodell is ruining the NFL with some of these contact rules meant to support player safety, but the NBA is the prime example of how a sport can be ruined when it gets too far away from the basic, historical rules.

[CoachChaz]

Exactly. It just WAY to big a risk for a pro sports league to fix games. Especially for something as meaningless as the Lakers being the 8 seed.

If the NBA was rigging games the Spurs, a boring team in a small market, would not have 4 titles.

Actually, the Spurs lead the league in local TV ratings. People fail to realize that although there are three NBA teams in Texas, there are no other major sports in San Antonio or Austin. I'll include Austin in this because of it's proximity to San Antonio (only 50 miles away). So, the market is much larger than it seems.

And if you need ANY proof of officiating dictating a winner, feel free to go back and watch the last 4 games of the 2006 NBA finals. 97 free throw attempts in 6 games for one player?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lX_qMS9bRY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuukM40T974&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fydhtOSlfW0&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZKGlHfukc4&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y8nI1PPYOk&feature=relmfu

[Denver Native (Carol)]

This is very interesting. Most free throw attempts so far. From list:

Durant 696
Bryant 563
Anthony 465
Westbrook 528
Pierce 402
James 511
Harden 710
Howard 646 - high number, as a team playing the Lakers, when behind late in the game, foul Howard as he
is a terrible free throw shooter.

All of the above are "labeled" superstars

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/free-throws/sort/freeThrowPct full list

[Ravage!!!]

oh geez. I didn't read the thread, and only the title...... but WHY would the NBA do this? What would it have to gain in comparisons to what it would lose? Conspiracy theories never REALLY seem to take into consideration just how hard it is to "keep a secret" in this information world where eveyrone is kept up on everything around the world up to the second. No one is without cameras, video cameras, recorders, texting and tweeting. How would this be kept behind closed doors? It's remarkable that anyone would take this seriously at all.

[CoachChaz]

oh geez. I didn't read the thread, and only the title...... but WHY would the NBA do this? What would it have to gain in comparisons to what it would lose? Conspiracy theories never REALLY seem to take into consideration just how hard it is to "keep a secret" in this information world where eveyrone is kept up on everything around the world up to the second. No one is without cameras, video cameras, recorders, texting and tweeting. How would this be kept behind closed doors? It's remarkable that anyone would take this seriously at all.

View the links I posted and give me a better explanation.

[chazoe60]

oh geez. I didn't read the thread, and only the title...... but WHY would the NBA do this? What would it have to gain in comparisons to what it would lose? Conspiracy theories never REALLY seem to take into consideration just how hard it is to "keep a secret" in this information world where eveyrone is kept up on everything around the world up to the second. No one is without cameras, video cameras, recorders, texting and tweeting. How would this be kept behind closed doors? It's remarkable that anyone would take this seriously at all.
It's not a conspiracy in the way of a smoke filled room with David Stern grimmacing through a cigar and saying "listen here refs, the Lakers will be in the playoffs and they will reach the Western Conference finals". It's morr about an unwritten or spoken rule that star players will get calls and the rest of the league won't. I don't see how anyone can watch an NBA game and deny this.

Certain teams and certain players will get calls that nobody else gets. I heard with my own two earballs an NBA ref admit that if Kobe puts up an ugly shot and there was even a question as to contact or not he'll blow his whistle and give Kobe the benefit of the doubt. That's the issue.

[Ravage!!!]

View the links I posted and give me a better explanation.

a better explanation than to believe that this "conspiracy" doesn't exist, except in the mind of the fans that dislike particular teams? Come on, coach, I believe you are smarter than this. People want to believe ANY conspiracy that fits their mold... or in this case... links. There is a ton of evidence that is the direct antithesis of your theory and I don't think you need me to provide you with something like that.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

If two small market teams, both lacking a superstar, played in the championship series, Stern & Co. would be on life support, as well as the network carrying the event.

[BroncoWave]

a better explanation than to believe that this "conspiracy" doesn't exist, except in the mind of the fans that dislike particular teams? Come on, coach, I believe you are smarter than this. People want to believe ANY conspiracy that fits their mold... or in this case... links. There is a ton of evidence that is the direct antithesis of your theory and I don't think you need me to provide you with something like that.

I think this is the first thing we've agreed on in months Rav! :lol:

But seriously, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks these conspiracy theories are ridiculous. I'll buy that superstars get the benefit of the doubt with refs, but I just refuse to believe that there is some conspiracy coming down from Stern to get refs to try to swing the outcomes of games. As long as he has been the commissioner, you would think at least one disgruntled former ref or employee would have spilled the beans on this "conspiracy" by now.

[Ravage!!!]

It's not a conspiracy in the way of a smoke filled room with David Stern grimmacing through a cigar and saying "listen here refs, the Lakers will be in the playoffs and they will reach the Western Conference finals". It's morr about an unwritten or spoken rule that star players will get calls and the rest of the league won't. I don't see how anyone can watch an NBA game and deny this.

Certain teams and certain players will get calls that nobody else gets. I heard with my own two earballs an NBA ref admit that if Kobe puts up an ugly shot and there was even a question as to contact or not he'll blow his whistle and give Kobe the benefit of the doubt. That's the issue.

They do in every professional league/sport... and I agree with you. Star WRs will get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to calls (every see Tony Gonzalez miss a catch and not do the hanky tossing dance?) ... just as star QBs get the ticky-tacky "roughing" calls. Leagues are made on their star players, and the refs know that they are talking to HUGE names in the sport. They are fans of the game just like anyone else. Even in tennis, str players got the line calls...in soccer we saw a star player make a HUGE "head ball" score that was pictured on the cover of Sports Illustrated to be nothing more than hit with a fist. But he was the biggest name in soccer, and the ref wasn't about to doubt.

So yes... star players get differential treatment. But, it's not the differential treatment that MAKES them stars. Why do star players get more calls.....because they probably have the ball more in tight spots.... because they are the stars. It's a back-n-forth kind of thing, but they have ALWAYS gotten the calls and always will.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I think this is the first thing we've agreed on in months Rav! :lol:

But seriously, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks these conspiracy theories are ridiculous. I'll buy that superstars get the benefit of the doubt with refs, but I just refuse to believe that there is some conspiracy coming down from Stern to get refs to try to swing the outcomes of games. As long as he has been the commissioner, you would think at least one disgruntled former ref or employee would have spilled the beans on this "conspiracy" by now.

I already posted it - book by a former ref spilling the beans - http://larrybrownsports.com/basketba...aja-bell/10642

[BroncoWave]

If two small market teams, both lacking a superstar, played in the championship series, Stern & Co. would be on life support, as well as the network carrying the event.

People would still watch. The closest we have come to your scenario in the last decade was the Spurs-Pistons finals. And while that one did get pretty bad ratings, it didn't financially kill the NBA. They are, by any measure, the second or third most popular pro sports league in America.

I just don't get this idea that Stern and the networks would suffer such massive hardship if small market teams with no superstars played in the finals. It might be a slight ding to the ratings, but it wouldn't kill basketball. You know what would kill basketball? If it was leaked that Stern was directing the refs to fix games.

[Ravage!!!]

I already posted it - book by a former ref spilling the beans - http://larrybrownsports.com/basketba...aja-bell/10642

He didn't spill the beans on any conspiracy theory... and your link doesn't work.

[BroncoWave]

I already posted it - book by a former ref spilling the beans - http://larrybrownsports.com/basketba...aja-bell/10642

Your link doesn't work. But if you are referring to Tim Donaghy, all that was proved with him was that he swung games for gambling purposes. That isn't the same as being directed by Stern to fix games.

[CoachChaz]

a better explanation than to believe that this "conspiracy" doesn't exist, except in the mind of the fans that dislike particular teams? Come on, coach, I believe you are smarter than this. People want to believe ANY conspiracy that fits their mold... or in this case... links. There is a ton of evidence that is the direct antithesis of your theory and I don't think you need me to provide you with something like that.

I wont go so far as to say there is a conspiracy as to which teams win...but there could be certain scenarios that occur in specific situations. The 2006 Finals is a perfect example. Dallas was on its way to a sweep...that wouldnt be good for the NBA. The NBA also needed a new superstar, so let's put D. Wade on the line and let him average half of his points from there and pad him up.

Do I think there is any existing conspiracy that is commonplace? No. But do I believe there was something in place for that series? Well...looking at the evidence in those video clips and from watching that series, I have to go with what I see. And what I saw was a blatant violation of any sort of referee etiquette or code of honor. That has to come from somewhere. One bad game...okay. Four straight? Hmmmm.

[Ravage!!!]

I wont go so far as to say there is a conspiracy as to which teams win...but there could be certain scenarios that occur in specific situations. The 2006 Finals is a perfect example. Dallas was on its way to a sweep...that wouldnt be good for the NBA. The NBA also needed a new superstar, so let's put D. Wade on the line and let him average half of his points from there and pad him up.

Do I think there is any existing conspiracy that is commonplace? No. But do I believe there was something in place for that series? Well...looking at the evidence in those video clips and from watching that series, I have to go with what I see. And what I saw was a blatant violation of any sort of referee etiquette or code of honor. That has to come from somewhere. One bad game...okay. Four straight? Hmmmm.

see, that's taking one scenario and believing something that is EXTREMELY unlikely and having that be proof for something that "fits the result." I personally find this to be just a case of... if nothing else... bad officiating. ONE series is what you have to prove that the NBA WANTED someone else other than Dallas??? This is your proof? I find it to be very weak argument at the very best end of the spectrum, and completely ridiculous on the other.

"That has to come from somewhere.." Really?? So you ARE supporting the theory that the NBA not only "fixes" games, but "fixes" entire series as well.

[CoachChaz]

see, that's taking one scenario and believing something that is EXTREMELY unlikely and having that be proof for something that "fits the result." I personally find this to be just a case of... if nothing else... bad officiating. ONE series is what you have to prove that the NBA WANTED someone else other than Dallas??? This is your proof? I find it to be very weak argument at the very best end of the spectrum, and completely ridiculous on the other.

"That has to come from somewhere.." Really?? So you ARE supporting the theory that the NBA not only "fixes" games, but "fixes" entire series as well.

Again...I go with what my eyes tell me. Four straight games of not just bad calls, but insanely ridiculous calls that didnt even make sense. If you disagree that there wasnt something very curious about that, then outside of Heat fans, you are probably the only person that thinks it was coincidence.

I'm not saying the games or series were "fixed", but based on what I saw, I wouldnt be shocked if there was an interest in putting Wade on a pedastal. However that translated on the court was the question. Added notes of curiosity...

Stern was publicly upset with Cuban
The Finlas of the previous year had an all time low in ratings
Tim Donaghy refereed in that series

[BroncoWave]

Again...I go with what my eyes tell me. Four straight games of not just bad calls, but insanely ridiculous calls that didnt even make sense. If you disagree that there wasnt something very curious about that, then outside of Heat fans, you are probably the only person that thinks it was coincidence.

I'm not saying the games or series were "fixed", but based on what I saw, I wouldnt be shocked if there was an interest in putting Wade on a pedastal. However that translated on the court was the question. Added notes of curiosity...

Stern was publicly upset with Cuban
The Finlas of the previous year had an all time low in ratings
Tim Donaghy refereed in that series

So what about the Mavs-Heat finals 2 years ago? Wouldn't Stern want the publicity of LeBron finally getting a ring? Or was he just making it up to Cuban for 2006?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

from article:


PMB: You have some controversial beliefs about how the NBA allegedly
tries to extend the length of high profile playoff series in order to
add revenue, and how that process usually entails favoring the big
market team and the high profile players. How is this done?

Is it a set of unwritten rules, or casual unorganized meetings? Are there standard, although not formally discussed practices?

TD: There's unwritten rules and basically it's done through
tape sessions. During the playoffs, they put the referees in hotel rooms
and show them plays from previous games, and it could be 10 or 15 plays
that they go over that they want called differently, or plays not
called that they do want called. And it's a situation that always go
against the team that's down in the series, and it programs and train
the referees to look for certain things and to put a team like
Sacramento in 2003, who had a clear disadvantage; and put the Lakers at
an advantage.

PMB: And how long has this practice been in place?

TD: Ever since I can remember, and I was hired in 1994.

full article - much more - http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-guru/2011/06/tim-donaghy-details-how-nba-officials-league-allegedly-fix-games-exclusive-interview-part-3/

[BroncoWave]

If anything Donaghy said in regards to the league fixing games had been in any way proved or confirmed by others, Stern would not still be the commissioner of the NBA.

[CoachChaz]

So what about the Mavs-Heat finals 2 years ago? Wouldn't Stern want the publicity of LeBron finally getting a ring? Or was he just making it up to Cuban for 2006?

Like I said...I wont say there is a conspiracy or constant rigging abound...but that series certainly made me think twice about saying it NEVER happens. A few things here and there and I'll tell you Miami stepped up...but there were just way too many factors involved

[Denver Native (Carol)]

If anything Donaghy said in regards to the league fixing games had been in any way proved or confirmed by others, Stern would not still be the commissioner of the NBA.

And, I could ask if anything/everything Donaghy has said in regards to the league fixing games is false, why hasn't the league sued him?

[Ravage!!!]

Like I said...I wont say there is a conspiracy or constant rigging abound...but that series certainly made me think twice about saying it NEVER happens. A few things here and there and I'll tell you Miami stepped up...but there were just way too many factors involved

way too many factors involved for it NOT to be fixing a game? Again, this is just taking a circumstance and finding a "solution" that fits. I mean, you are looking back to a single series 7 years ago to be your beacon of proof, and any reasonable person can see that those "areas of concern"... can be found with ANY big game being lost. Look how many people thought the NFL was "fixing" for the Giants after 911... or fans thinking the NFL wanted the Ravens to win this year? Every year there are people that can point to "circumstances" and make them fit a conspiracy theory. It's pretty easy to do.

[Ravage!!!]

And, I could ask if anything/everything Donaghy has said in regards to the league fixing games is false, why hasn't the league sued him?

For what?

[Buff]

I think there is enough evidence out there, between Donaghy, Joey Crawford/Tim Duncan, and now what Ed Rush is doing as the PAC 12 head of officials, that officiating is clearly corrupt in the NBA. It's indisputable at this point.

The idea that David Stern has presided over the entire thing and has clean hands doesn't pass the sniff test to me. I think it's more corrupt than we assume, not less.

[Buff]

If anything Donaghy said in regards to the league fixing games had been in any way proved or confirmed by others, Stern would not still be the commissioner of the NBA.

I think that's sort of naive. Who is going to prove it? How are they going to prove it? What is their incentive to do so? Who is going to overthrow Stern, one of the most powerful commissioners of any sport in history?

[Ravage!!!]

I think there is enough evidence out there, between Donaghy, Joey Crawford/Tim Duncan, and now what Ed Rush is doing as the PAC 12 head of officials, that officiating is clearly corrupt in the NBA. It's indisputable at this point.

The idea that David Stern has presided over the entire thing and has clean hands doesn't pass the sniff test to me. I think it's more corrupt than we assume, not less.

I'm confused as to what Crawford and Duncan has to do with proving the fixing of games?

I don't think its more than corrupt thatn what we assume, I think people WANT to believe that everything is fixed, hence why their teams don't win..teams they want to win don't win... why there are upsets... or how "uncommon" comebacks happen if it doesn't fit their "wish" list.


I dunno. I guess I just find it amusing when I see people complaining that the games are "rigged".. "fixed"... "a hoax"..."like the WWF"... or anything else considering how difficult it would be to fix games with MILLIONS of variations throughout any given game.

I can see where people think that "stars" get preferential treatment, but that happens in ALLLllllll walks of life.

[Ravage!!!]

I think that's sort of naive. Who is going to prove it? How are they going to prove it? What is their incentive to do so? Who is going to overthrow Stern, one of the most powerful commissioners of any sport in history?

Wait.. what? Who is going to prove it? Anyone that has a solid bit of evidence. Who would have the incentive? ANYONE that could break the story!! Just look at the NFL and the Saints. Just look at how the media scoops in and tears apart any famous person the moment the get a speeding ticket. Hell, we basically impeached a president for getting a friggin blow-job! Who would want to prove/show that the NBA is intentionally fixing games?? NEARLY EVERYONE.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Could it be that the Trail Blazers are a below average team with little to no star power? This probably has more to do with it than any tin foil hat conspiracies. It's pretty normal to assume they're not going to get a lot of calls on the road.

Additionally, those two guys are big time sensationalists who have a radio talk show in.......wait for it......Portland.

[MOtorboat]

Could it be that the Trail Blazers are a below average team with little to no star power? This probably has more to do with it than any tin foil hat conspiracies. It's pretty normal to assume they're not going to get a lot of calls on the road.

Additionally, those two guys are big time sensationalists who have a radio talk show in.......wait for it......Portland.

Who are "those guys?" The people who put up the YouTube video?

Because the people speaking in the video are Bill Simmons and another guy at Grantland Network, a subsidiary of ESPN. (I think it's Zach Lowe)

[MOtorboat]

Are NBA games "rigged" or "fixed?"

No. I don't think they are. But the officiating is poor, and it is a league directive to give certain players more calls, whether it's a spoken directive or not.

The issue is that when it comes down to the fourth quarter, those players have the ball in their hands because they know, their coaches know and the other team knows that calls will go their way. Some of the calls that Kobe gets are ridiculous. And the way they allow the Heat to play "defense" in the fourth quarter of games is comical.

But again, are the games "fixed?" No. But it does make for a poor product if the team you prefer to root for doesn't have one of those players.

[Buff]

I'm confused as to what Crawford and Duncan has to do with proving the fixing of games?

I don't think its more than corrupt thatn what we assume, I think people WANT to believe that everything is fixed, hence why their teams don't win..teams they want to win don't win... why there are upsets... or how "uncommon" comebacks happen if it doesn't fit their "wish" list.


I dunno. I guess I just find it amusing when I see people complaining that the games are "rigged".. "fixed"... "a hoax"..."like the WWF"... or anything else considering how difficult it would be to fix games with MILLIONS of variations throughout any given game.

I can see where people think that "stars" get preferential treatment, but that happens in ALLLllllll walks of life.

I am saying that there are multiple instances of corruption - and a clear understanding of how officials can impact outcomes of games. Do I think that game fixing is widespread? Of course not - there is too much scrutiny. Do I think that in the history of the last 20 years that officials have been given certain secretive directives that impact outcomes? How could you think otherwise with all the evidence of bias and corruption?


Wait.. what? Who is going to prove it? Anyone that has a solid bit of evidence. Who would have the incentive? ANYONE that could break the story!! Just look at the NFL and the Saints. Just look at how the media scoops in and tears apart any famous person the moment the get a speeding ticket. Hell, we basically impeached a president for getting a friggin blow-job! Who would want to prove/show that the NBA is intentionally fixing games?? NEARLY EVERYONE.

Of course they would - but the only people in a position to do so would be connected to the inner circle of NBA officiating - and unless they had an axe to grind there isn't much incentive to do so (not to mention they'd likely implicate themselves). David Stern isn't stupid. He probably operates similar to a mafia Don where he has a few trusted allies who do his bidding. Some of these officials have been around for decades. They know where their bread is buttered.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/304054-tim-donaghy-asks-nba-fans-how-far-down-the-rabbit-hole-should-we-go

I'm inclined to believe Donaghy.

[smith49]

League admits Kobe fouled Rubio on final shot

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/28/league-admits-kobe-fouled-rubio-on-final-shot/

If the league is trying to get the Lakers to the playoffs, that should mean that tomorrow night the Utah Jazz should not get all of the calls they do at home when playing the Nuggets.


Whoa there carol. It's a two way street here. The Nuggs get just as many calls at home as the jazz. To say otherwise is just being a homer. Therein lies the problem. Is the nba fixing games?? Don't know that they are entirely, but I can tell you that home teams definetly get more calls then road teams. There is no question about it. Yes, the jazz will get more calls tonight most likely. However, like I said, its a two way street.

What kills it for me entirely is the star treatment. It's a joke. Big market stars get every call. That's a fact. I've watched too many nba games on tv and at the ESA to think otherwise. Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc. etc. it is making or has made the nba almost unwatchable. Last years finals was also a joke with the bs calls made to help the Heat. No one will ever convince me that its not tainted. I'm not saying its a full on conspiracy, just an understanding that certain players and home teams are going to get the benefit more often then not.

I say just let them play and you would see people actually start to enjoy the nba more.

[BroncoWave]

Whoa there carol. It's a two way street here. The Nuggs get just as many calls at home as the jazz. To say otherwise is just being a homer. Therein lies the problem. Is the nba fixing games?? Don't know that they are entirely, but I can tell you that home teams definetly get more calls then road teams. There is no question about it. Yes, the jazz will get more calls tonight most likely. However, like I said, its a two way street.

What kills it for me entirely is the star treatment. It's a joke. Big market stars get every call. That's a fact. I've watched too many nba games on tv and at the ESA to think otherwise. Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc. etc. it is making or has made the nba almost unwatchable. Last years finals was also a joke with the bs calls made to help the Heat. No one will ever convince me that its not tainted. I'm not saying its a full on conspiracy, just an understanding that certain players and home teams are going to get the benefit more often then not.

I say just let them play and you would see people actually start to enjoy the nba more.

Have you ever watched an NFL game? They throw a flag whenever someone even looks at a star QB wrong. This happens all across sports. It's easier to see in the NBA because star players dictate game so much more heavily than in other sports, but it isn't unique to the NBA.

[MOtorboat]

Have you ever watched an NFL game? They throw a flag whenever someone even looks at a star QB wrong. This happens all across sports. It's easier to see in the NBA because star players dictate game so much more heavily than in other sports, but it isn't unique to the NBA.

It's not unique to the NBA, but the irony is that Kobe HAS gotten calls because a player "looked at him wrong." It's documented. Look at the original video in the thread where he misses a shot, isn't contacted and ONLY because he misses the shot does the referee blow the whistle.

I don't think NFL favoritism, or even pitcher favoritism in baseball is anywhere remotely comparable to the harm to the game that it does in the NBA.

[Poet]

But star players going to the hoop and drawing a foul call occurs far more often. The NFL also instituted rules specifically to protect QB's. Whereas in the NBA they're not even coming close to enforcing the rules accurately.

At least in my opinion.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Are NBA games "rigged" or "fixed?"

No. I don't think they are. But the officiating is poor, and it is a league directive to give certain players more calls, whether it's a spoken directive or not.

The issue is that when it comes down to the fourth quarter, those players have the ball in their hands because they know, their coaches know and the other team knows that calls will go their way. Some of the calls that Kobe gets are ridiculous. And the way they allow the Heat to play "defense" in the fourth quarter of games is comical.

But again, are the games "fixed?" No. But it does make for a poor product if the team you prefer to root for doesn't have one of those players.

A league directive to give certain players more calls can equal rigged or fixed - i.e. would the outcome of the game be different if certain players were not given more calls?

[underrated29]

Basketball sucks.



Carry on

[smith49]

Whoa there carol. It's a two way street here. The Nuggs get just as many calls at home as the jazz. To say otherwise is just being a homer. Therein lies the problem. Is the nba fixing games?? Don't know that they are entirely, but I can tell you that home teams definetly get more calls then road teams. There is no question about it. Yes, the jazz will get more calls tonight most likely. However, like I said, its a two way street.

What kills it for me entirely is the star treatment. It's a joke. Big market stars get every call. That's a fact. I've watched too many nba games on tv and at the ESA to think otherwise. Kobe, Lebron, Jordan, etc. etc. it is making or has made the nba almost unwatchable. Last years finals was also a joke with the bs calls made to help the Heat. No one will ever convince me that its not tainted. I'm not saying its a full on conspiracy, just an understanding that certain players and home teams are going to get the benefit more often then not.

I say just let them play and you would see people actually start to enjoy the nba more.

Have you ever watched an NFL game? They throw a flag whenever someone even looks at a star QB wrong. This happens all across sports. It's easier to see in the NBA because star players dictate game so much more heavily than in other sports, but it isn't unique to the NBA.




No. No I have never watched an nfl game BTB. I mean, really? What kind of question is that? If you disagree with me that's fine, but don't try and belittle me. Besides, your comparison is weak. In the NBA you literally can get called for looking at certain players the wrong way. It's documented. Go watch utube and you can see for yourself. I know nfl refs are pretty iffy with some of those qb calls, but I have never seen one where the qb didn't even get touched.


I'm not saying its an out right fix, but its not like they just let em play. They should treat koby and lebron the same as they do a rookie IMO. That's a major bitch for me. Some unknown rookie can drive the lane and get hacked time and time again and won't get the same calls the stars do because they aren't stars. That makes no sense.

[BroncoWave]

No. No I have never watched an nfl game BTB. I mean, really? What kind of question is that? If you disagree with me that's fine, but don't try and belittle me. Besides, your comparison is weak. In the NBA you literally can get called for looking at certain players the wrong way. It's documented. Go watch utube and you can see for yourself. I know nfl refs are pretty iffy with some of those qb calls, but I have never seen one where the qb didn't even get touched.


I'm not saying its an out right fix, but its not like they just let em play. They should treat koby and lebron the same as they do a rookie IMO. That's a major bitch for me. Some unknown rookie can drive the lane and get hacked time and time again and won't get the same calls the stars do because they aren't stars. That makes no sense.

Obviously you've watched an NFL game. It's called hyperbole. Try not to be so offended by it.

[smith49]

No. No I have never watched an nfl game BTB. I mean, really? What kind of question is that? If you disagree with me that's fine, but don't try and belittle me. Besides, your comparison is weak. In the NBA you literally can get called for looking at certain players the wrong way. It's documented. Go watch utube and you can see for yourself. I know nfl refs are pretty iffy with some of those qb calls, but I have never seen one where the qb didn't even get touched.


I'm not saying its an out right fix, but its not like they just let em play. They should treat koby and lebron the same as they do a rookie IMO. That's a major bitch for me. Some unknown rookie can drive the lane and get hacked time and time again and won't get the same calls the stars do because they aren't stars. That makes no sense.

Obviously you've watched an NFL game. It's called hyperbole. Try not to be so offended by it.


Why? Just because its hyperbole doesn't mean it's not offensive. Besides, when I get talkin about officials and especially the nba, I lose my mind. Jeeze, just let me be offended for a minute ok??!!

Honestly I think I read your post with a condescending voice in my head. If you didn't mean it that way it's my bad.

[sneakers]

http://i.imgur.com/gKa3aov.png