Broncos' Marshall suspended over conduct

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13222721

For his punt and other acts of misbehavior, the Broncos have given receiver Brandon Marshall the boot.

The Broncos have suspended Marshall for conduct detrimental to the team.

Marshall's apology Thursday night on ESPN was too late. The punishment stems from Marshall's shameful display of unprofessionalism during practice Wednesday. He was lackadaisical during individual running drills. He didn't run routes or catch passes during another position drill, instead choosing to hold a dummy and knocking the receivers as they came off the line.

A KMGH-7 video caught Marshall punting the ball away after one drill instead of handing it to a ball boy, as the players are told.

Marshall was held out of practice Wednesday, but that was before the Broncos were aware of the magnitude of his insubordination.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels decided to suspend Marshall this morning. The length of the suspension is not known although Marshall is not expected to play in the Broncos' next preseason game Sunday night against the Chicago Bears and his former quarterback, Jay Cutler.

Marshall caught 206 passes the previous two seasons for the Broncos, enough production for him to request a contract extension that has one year and $2.198 million remaining. He has twice requested a trade.

Perhaps realizing the circulating video of his misconduct could all but kill his ability to get traded, Marshall went on ESPN's NFL Live show at 10:42 p.m. MST to explain his actions.

"Me punting the ball was definitely frustration," Marshall said. "It was an error in judgment. There was a lot of frustration (Wednesday) coming out of a meeting."

McDaniels would not explain the reason behind Marshall's absence from practice Thursday.

[Shazam!]

This ******* guy needs to go.

[broncogirl7]

Hell yes...it's about time!

[topscribe]

Marshall not only is acting like a little child; he is acting like a very stupid little
child. It is beyond me how he figures to improve his contract with anybody by
displaying such conduct. All he is doing is demonstrating vividly to all 32 teams
that he is someone they do not want in their locker room . . .

-----

[Flatinum]

This headcase has next to no trade value right now. Suspend the crybaby and he either wakes up or his career is ruined. Either way I don't care.

No NFL GM is going to give up anything decent to acquire this 6 year old.

[topscribe]

This headcase has next to no trade value right now. Suspend the crybaby and he either wakes up or his career is ruined. Either way I don't care.

No NFL GM is going to give up anything decent to acquire this 6 year old.

Well . . . Al Davis? :coffee:


*Kidding. You're right, of course.*


-----

[Northman]

Congrats Brandon. You went from a very promising new beginning to implosion.

[claymore]

Marshall not only is acting like a little child; he is acting like a very stupid little
child. It is beyond me how he figures to improve his contract with anybody by
displaying such conduct. All he is doing is demonstrating vividly to all 32 teams
that he is someone they do not want in their locker room . . .

-----

Someone will PAY marshall. That is a fact. We are just devaluing a trade by doing this.

[Dortoh]

The man is going to get what he wants

1. Traded
2. Paid

The Broncos are going to get

1. Nothing
2. see #1

[broncogirl7]

We aren't going to get anything for the guy, I say keep him suspended for the entire year, on the bench, and getting no money. Maybe that will send a message to other players that if they act like babies, they'll get a time-out with no rewards!!!!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

And, besides the McDaniels/Cutler topic being discussed on Sunday night football during the game, Marshall will also be the topic - WOW - everyone watching the game will know what Marshall did to get suspended. Last night, Vic Lombardi said that he was sure Marshall's agent told him to get on ESPN to explain his side of the training camp video - I think Marshall's first step is TO GET A NEW AGENT.

[Northman]

Someone will PAY marshall. That is a fact. We are just devaluing a trade by doing this.


Em, no. He is devaluing himself.

[Traveler]

Damage is done! Trade value just dropped to zero. He'll remain a Bronco this season, albeit several thousand dollars lighter. Let see how he acts once he returns.

After listening to Legwold on Lombardi's site, Legwold stated (paraphrasing) he talked with several GM's about Marshall actions. They all agreed that if the Broncos kept notes of all his words and actions, they have more than enough evidence to justify the suspension. And in doing so, they probably have been contemplating this for some time.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Someone will PAY marshall. That is a fact. We are just devaluing a trade by doing this.

He left the Broncos with no choice BUT to suspend him. If they did not, how many other players might feel they could also pull the same crap??????

[Traveler]

Someone will PAY marshall. That is a fact. We are just devaluing a trade by doing this.

Puff, puff, pass!

Trade value. Are you kidding me?

[Dortoh]

Damage is done! Trade value just dropped to zreo. He'll remain a Bronco this season, albeit several thousand dollars lighter. Let see how he acts once he returns.

After listening to Legwold on Lombardi's site, Legwold stated (paraphrasing) he talked with several GM's about Marshall actions. They all agreed that if the Broncos have kept notes about all his words and actions, they have more than enough evidince to justify the suspension. And in doing so, they probably have been contemplating this for some time.


Exactly they baited one of their own players into this. They know Brandon and knew that putting him on ST's would break him and cause a reaction. Great job coach McD you got what you wanted......one less probowler on your team.

[Traveler]

Exactly they baited one of their own players into this. They know Brandon and knew that putting him on ST's would break him and cause a reaction. Great job coach McD you got what you wanted......one less probowler on your team.

You can't really believe that crap you stated above, right?

[broncogirl7]

Exactly they baited one of their own players into this. They know Brandon and knew that putting him on ST's would break him and cause a reaction. Great job coach McD you got what you wanted......one less probowler on your team.

Honestly, doesn't say much about Brandon. The video of his practices and child-like actions prove, beyond any doubt that he is NOT a team player, cares nothing for the Broncos and doesn't deserve to wear the orange and blue...sit him on the bench as a shining example for all, since we won't get anything out of him in a trade.

[nbenallo33]

Brandon Marshall: WAKE UP!!!

[Dortoh]

You can't really believe that crap you stated above, right?

Sir are you accusing me of stiring the pot :tsk:

[Thnikkaman]

Exactly they baited one of their own players into this. They know Brandon and knew that putting him on ST's would break him and cause a reaction. Great job coach McD you got what you wanted......one less probowler on your team.

Really? They baited him by punishing him for holding out and acting like a child? I don't exactly agree with the suspension, but you are smoking some damn fine crack with this one Hotrod. Could you send some this way?

----------------
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[nbenallo33]

sir are you accusing me of stiring the pot :tsk:

no you dont stir it you mix it up good!

[Dortoh]

Honestly, doesn't say much about Brandon. The video of his practices and child-like actions prove, beyond any doubt that he is NOT a team player, cares nothing for the Broncos and doesn't deserve to wear the orange and blue...sit him on the bench as a shining example for all, since we won't get anything out of him in a trade.

They wont be able to sit him on the bench the whole year. The NFLPA will tear them apart if they try.

[outdoor_miner]

Exactly they baited one of their own players into this. They know Brandon and knew that putting him on ST's would break him and cause a reaction. Great job coach McD you got what you wanted......one less probowler on your team.

You really think that one video is the only way Brandon has been acting up? The team has almost certainly been dealing with this type of crap for months. How could they possibly have handled this without hurting his feelings?

[Traveler]

Sir are you accusing me of stiring the pot :tsk:

If it walks like a duck....

[NightTrainLayne]

Congrats Brandon. You went from a very promising new beginning to implosion.

It only took what? 10 days?

[Dortoh]

You really think that one video is the only way Brandon has been acting up? The team has almost certainly been dealing with this type of crap for months. How could they possibly have handled this without hurting his feelings?

My point remains they baited him into this action. That is NOT how you resolve an issue with a player. You sit down and talk to them. Of course everytime coach McD has sat down with a player (cutler & BMarsh) they leave the meeting pissed off.

Lets just hope Josh never becomes head of diplomatic relations for the US or were going to get nuked.

[broncfn90]

Dortoh I am with you bud we need this guy and I would love to keep him and watch him just rip it up... but hey we got to look at it with sense.... he dose not want to be here anymore and he is acting like a child.... it kills me to say let him go but when he acts like a child like that.... bye

[NightTrainLayne]

Marshall said he had to come to camp because he couldn't do without the $14,000/day fine.

Wonder how losing over $500,000 in this season's salary will sit with him?

[Traveler]

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii273/Papi728/drama_queen.jpg

Not you Dortoh!

[Tned]

I was in a meeting when getting the CBS4 text, but figured it would have been posted by now.

[Dreadnought]

My point remains they baited him into this action. That is NOT how you resolve an issue with a player. You sit down and talk to them. Of course everytime coach McD has sat down with a player (cutler & BMarsh) they leave the meeting pissed off.

Lets just hope Josh never becomes head of diplomatic relations for the US or were going to get nuked.

Dortoh, I love you and Claymore like brothers, but you guys are missing it on this one. No, I don't think McD has done anything to earn my faith in him, but there was simply no choice here in this particular case. Marshall baited the Broncs, not the other way around. He always was a huge PITA, more trouble than he is worth, and that predates McD. His character is what it is. He is who he is. I have zero doubt at all that he would have pulled the same sort of crap in some form eventually no matter who the coach was. He is TO revisited, and nothing but trouble in the long run.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Exactly they baited one of their own players into this. They know Brandon and knew that putting him on ST's would break him and cause a reaction. Great job coach McD you got what you wanted......one less probowler on your team.

UNBELIEVABLE :frusty::frusty::frusty:

[topscribe]

My point remains they baited him into this action. That is NOT how you resolve an issue with a player. You sit down and talk to them. Of course everytime coach McD has sat down with a player (cutler & BMarsh) they leave the meeting pissed off.

Lets just hope Josh never becomes head of diplomatic relations for the US or were going to get nuked.

You don't know that. How many times has Josh sat down with a player, and
with whom has he sat down? From what I have read and heard, Josh has sat
down with all of them.

The fact is, they have stars such as Clady, Royal, Champ, D.J., Dawkins,
Stokley, et al. who say, "It's Coach's team, and I'm part of that team." Then
they have had others who have said, "I'm a star, and I want preferential
treatment." There's none much that can be done with the latter except to
purge the team of them . . .

-----

[Northman]

Sir are you accusing me of stiring the pot :tsk:

I knew there was a problem with beaky little eyes of yours. :lol:

[OldschoolFreak]

Look, clearly Marshall is an idiot and 90% of this falls on him, not the team. BUT...we were discussing the issue on this forum about a week ago and some people made the argument that despite Marshall's failings, the impetus was on McD to get over himself and try to be reconsiliatory rather than standoffish.

In hindsight that is 100% accurate. Dumbass or not, Marshall is a Probowler and the best receiver on the team. Even if the relationship is irreparable for the long run, the team should have done what it needed to maintain his trade value for when they do unload him.

I'm not saying this doesn't sqaurely fall on Marshall--it does. What I am saying is that rather than play chicken with the guy and wait for him to break with childish communication like was done, the team should have recognized the volatility of the situation, and done what was possible to douse the flames. I'm not talking new contract, I'm talking of a sitdown honest conversation letting him know in no uncertain terms that he's a valuable member of the team and that the best thing for him to do in terms of his own and the team's best interest was to play hard, have a great year and then see what happens.Pouting at him and lying to the media about everything being ok is almost as bad as what he did.

This was a very predictable outcome and rather than coldly wait for an overgrown manchild to lose it, the team should have anticipated, played their cards better by being more conciliatory, and done all in their power to maintain the overall strength of the team.

Like him or not, we are not better without BM. This team just took a step backwards.

[outdoor_miner]

My point remains they baited him into this action. That is NOT how you resolve an issue with a player. You sit down and talk to them. Of course everytime coach McD has sat down with a player (cutler & BMarsh) they leave the meeting pissed off.

Lets just hope Josh never becomes head of diplomatic relations for the US or were going to get nuked.

1. Marshall has admitted that it's not just this year. Shanahan clearly had a problem on his hands, so pinning this all on McD just seems like playing the blame-McD-game to me: "Honestly I can say I really want a fresh new start, with everything thats going on, not just this year but in past years," Marshall said. "Its been a lot. Unfortunately yesterday I let the emotions get the best of me. I apologized to everyone for that. But half of that video was blown out of proportion."

2. If the guy is acting crazy, I do not know what other recourse the team has. I'm sure there has been "behind the scenes" punishment, then they went to "slap on the wrist" (depth chart), followed by a more public punishment (Scout Team), to now a suspension. You don't think they've tried "talking to him" on multiple occassions? The guy is clearly a head case. The ultimate problem is that they aren't willing to give him more money. That is the whole problem. I'm not sure how you deal with that. Many many teams tell players this all the time. It is rare, however, that you get a player that acts as poorly as Marshall did.

3. I agree with you on some level that coaches need to be able to deal with all sorts of players... Perhaps McDaniels is not good at this yet. However, Marshall has clearly shown that he's a special kind of crazy. :)

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Look, clearly Marshall is an idiot and 90% of this falls on him, not the team. BUT...we were discussing the issue on this forum about a week ago and some people made the argument that despite Marshall's failings, the impetus was on McD to get over himself and try to be reconsiliatory rather than standoffish.

In hindsight that is 100% accurate. Dumbass or not, Marshall is a Probowler and the best receiver on the team. Even if the relationship is irreparable for the long run, the team should have done what it needed to maintain his trade value for when they do unload him.

I'm not saying this doesn't sqaurely fall on Marshall--it does. What I am saying is that rather than play chicken with the guy and wait for him to break with childish communication like was done, the team should have recognized the volatility of the situation, and done what was possible to douse the flames. I'm not talking new contract, I'm talking of a sitdown honest conversation letting him know in no uncertain terms that he's a valuable member of the team and that the best thing for him to do in terms of his own and the team's best interest was to play hard, have a great year and then see what happens.Pouting at him and lying to the media about everything being ok is almost as bad as what he did.

This was a very predictable outcome and rather than coldly wait for an overgrown manchild to lose it, the team should have anticipated, played their cards better by being more conciliatory, and done all in their power to maintain the overall strength of the team.

Like him or not, we are not better without BM. This team just took a step backwards.

I believe it was in the following interview with Bowlen, that he explains WHY Brandon will not get his extension NOW - let's STOP blaming it on McDaniels.

http://www.fm1043thefan.com/channels/audioOnDemand/Story.aspx?id=1121617

[outdoor_miner]

What I am saying is that rather than play chicken with the guy and wait for him to break with childish communication like was done, the team should have recognized the volatility of the situation, and done what was possible to douse the flames. I'm not talking new contract, I'm talking of a sitdown honest conversation letting him know in no uncertain terms that he's a valuable member of the team and that the best thing for him to do in terms of his own and the team's best interest was to play hard, have a great year and then see what happens.

Tell me - how in the world do you know that they haven't done this???

[NightTrainLayne]

Dortoh, I love you and Claymore like brothers, but you guys are missing it on this one. No, I don't think McD has done anything to earn my faith in him, but there was simply no choice here in this particular case. Marshall baited the Broncs, not the other way around. He always was a huge PITA, more trouble than he is worth, and that predates McD. His character is what it is. He is who he is. I have zero doubt at all that he would have pulled the same sort of crap in some form eventually no matter who the coach was. He is TO revisited, and nothing but trouble in the long run.

QFT.

Marshall is a problem-child. There's not a way to "handle" someone like him. You might be able to appease them for a season or two, but eventually, the same behavior comes to light again, and it only gets worse.

Why? Because BM has been rewarded for this type of behavior his whole life apparently. He's a spoiled brat who throws a tantrum, or kicks someone, or smashes his fist through glass when he doesn't get his way.

There's not a way to handle that. You either put up with it, or you send them packing.

What you absolutely DON'T do, if you have a shred of self-respect, is you DON'T reward them with a new contract. You don't coddle them by letting them play by different rules than the rest of the team. It is a team, and they are either all in the same boat or they're not. Someone who rocks the boat eventually gets tossed out no matter who the Captain is (i.e. Shanny or McD, or anyone else we could have hired).

I'm glad that McD has the balls to stand up to him. It would be a lot easier for Josh to cave on this. He's already had a ton of criticism over Cutler. Who would blame him for rolling over just to get through the season? But he has the integrity to stand up and build his team the way he envisions it, and if that means a selfish, me-first, ne'er-do-well has to go despite his inherent talent, then so be it.

[Northman]

I'm talking of a sitdown honest conversation letting him know in no uncertain terms that he's a valuable member of the team and that the best thing for him to do in terms of his own and the team's best interest was to play hard, have a great year and then see what happens.

What makes you think they havent already tried this route?

[Ravage!!!]

Look, clearly Marshall is an idiot and 90% of this falls on him, not the team. BUT...we were discussing the issue on this forum about a week ago and some people made the argument that despite Marshall's failings, the impetus was on McD to get over himself and try to be reconsiliatory rather than standoffish.

In hindsight that is 100% accurate. Dumbass or not, Marshall is a Probowler and the best receiver on the team. Even if the relationship is irreparable for the long run, the team should have done what it needed to maintain his trade value for when they do unload him.

I'm not saying this doesn't sqaurely fall on Marshall--it does. What I am saying is that rather than play chicken with the guy and wait for him to break with childish communication like was done, the team should have recognized the volatility of the situation, and done what was possible to douse the flames. I'm not talking new contract, I'm talking of a sitdown honest conversation letting him know in no uncertain terms that he's a valuable member of the team and that the best thing for him to do in terms of his own and the team's best interest was to play hard, have a great year and then see what happens.Pouting at him and lying to the media about everything being ok is almost as bad as what he did.

This was a very predictable outcome and rather than coldly wait for an overgrown manchild to lose it, the team should have anticipated, played their cards better by being more conciliatory, and done all in their power to maintain the overall strength of the team.

Like him or not, we are not better without BM. This team just took a step backwards.

Great post....

[OldschoolFreak]

Tell me - how in the world do you know that they haven't done this???

There's no evidence, given McD's hardline approach that they did, though I have no proof that is the case. Every interview, press release, etc. I've seen of him is that he's uncommunicative and takes a hard nosed "my way or the highway" approach.

[broncofaninfla]

Most people suspected Marshall was an idiot, he confirmed that yesterday. BUT this is still a fixable issue. Marshall's hand is forced now. He HAS to come back and showcase his talents now to show he is in fact an elite receiver and that he can be a team player. There are already several teams in need of a quality WR, there will be plenty more by the time the trade deadline approaches this season with the injuires that occur year in and year out. Marshall in now in a must perform situation and if his agent is worth anything he'll advise the idiot to grow up and perform.

[OldschoolFreak]

What makes you think they havent already tried this route?

Maybe they have but I'd be surprised if they had. Look, I hate having to defend this but given the volatility of the board recently I will.

I like McDaniels. I'm not against him, don't want him to fail, and think he's brought a ton of positives to this team.

That said, one of the things I dislike is his extremely arrogant, know it all, hard ass approach. I've seen several examples now of this working against him and I hope it's something he ultimately addresses. Is there value in being tough? Absolutely. Are there times where it might be better to show some compassion? I think so.

[broncofaninfla]

I posted this in another thread, seems more appropriate here, I'm guessing he is suspended WITH OUT pay.

Broncos can't send Marshall home with pay (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/28/broncos-cant-send-marshall-home-with-pay/)

Posted by Mike Florio on August 28, 2009 8:41 AM ET
Some of you have suggested that the Denver Broncos should take a page from the Jon Gruden/Andy Reid playbook and send disgruntled receiver Brandon Marshall home, with pay.

Gruden did just that with receiver Keyshawn Johnson during the 2003 season, giving Keyshawn an extended vacation after repeated clashes between player and coach.

Two years later, the Eagles followed a four-game unpaid suspension of receiver Terrell Owens with a suspension for the rest of the year, with pay.

Though Keyshawn didn't fight his paid vacation, the grievance filed by Owens included an attempt to force the Eagles either to let Owens back in the building or cut him loose.

The effort failed.

And so, when it was time to work out a new Collective Bargaining Agreement after the 2005 season, the NFL Players Association slipped into the new deal language prohibiting teams from sending players home with pay.

Here's the relevant language from the provision in the current labor contract permitting maximum discipline of a four-game suspension without pay: "This maximum applies without limitation to any deactivation of a player in response to player conduct (other than a deactivation in response to a player's on-field playing ability), and any such deactivation, even with pay, shall be considered discipline subject to the limits set forth in this section. The Non-Injury Grievance Arbitrator's decision in Terrell Owens (Nov. 23, 2005) is thus expressly overruled as to any Club decision to deactivate a player in response to the player's conduct."

So while the Broncos can sit Marshall down for maximum suspensions of four games at a time in response to conduct detrimental to the team, the Broncos cannot pay him to stay out of their hair.

[outdoor_miner]

I'm not sure if this has been posted (sorry if it is common knowledge), but the suspension is only for the pre-season...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4428598

[Northman]

I'm not sure if this has been posted (sorry if it is common knowledge), but the suspension is only for the pre-season...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4428598


Bummer.

[Tned]

Maybe they have but I'd be surprised if they had. Look, I hate having to defend this but given the volatility of the board recently I will.

I like McDaniels. I'm not against him, don't want him to fail, and think he's brought a ton of positives to this team.

That said, one of the things I dislike is his extremely arrogant, know it all, hard ass approach. I've seen several examples now of this working against him and I hope it's something he ultimately addresses. Is there value in being tough? Absolutely. Are there times where it might be better to show some compassion? I think so.

We saw it with Cutler, hence the reason we suspect it with Marshall. A head coach needs to know how to deal with cocky millionaires with big egos.

There have been plenty of new head coaches that have come into the league, plenty of new schemes, how often have we heard of a teams #1 receiver, a top 5 receiver in the league, a back-to-back 100 reception receiver playing safety on the scoute team.

While it isn't really known if it was about knowing the playbook, even if it was, that is simply a slap in the face. Put him on the second unit and get him involved in the offense.

[NightTrainLayne]

There's no evidence, given McD's hardline approach that they did, though I have no proof that is the case. Every interview, press release, etc. I've seen of him is that he's uncommunicative and takes a hard nosed "my way or the highway" approach.

McD has been very consistent about not talking about these types of issues at all. He has consistently said that he won't go there.

Let's back up a couple of months.

Remember Casey Weigman? Remember how he subtlely threatened to hold out. He wanted a new deal, and threatened not to come to mini-camps (voluntary) because he didn't have a contract?

Weigman was pissed. He felt like he was being mis-treated after a Pro-Bowl year. (Sound familiar yet?) But McD told him to get into camp and work hard and that stuff would take care of itself.

So. .. instead of skipping the "voluntary" mini-camp and playing hardball, Weigman came to camp and worked his ass off.

What was the result? Did Weigman get a deal or not?

He might not have appreciated that McD wanted him to prove himself before handing over the payday, but he did, and guess what? McD held up his end of the bargain.

Now contrast that with Marshall's behavior and reaction TO THE SAME TREATMENT.

Marshall didn't come to "voluntary" mini-camps. When he did show up he was almost immediately injured. And since recovering from that he's been un-cooperative, and a distraction on the practice field.

Don't tell me that McD can't work with the players. The situation with Weigman shows that he can. Had Marshall held up his end of the bargain we would be in an entirely different position.

McD has always left the door open. He didn't even take yesterday's blow-up as an opportunity to run-down Marshall. Anything he has said about Marshall publicly has been positive and protected Marshall from criticism. He did the same with Weigman while they were working behind the scenes on his deal.

[Traveler]

Look, clearly Marshall is an idiot and 90% of this falls on him, not the team. BUT...we were discussing the issue on this forum about a week ago and some people made the argument that despite Marshall's failings, the impetus was on McD to get over himself and try to be reconsiliatory rather than standoffish.

In hindsight that is 100% accurate. Dumbass or not, Marshall is a Probowler and the best receiver on the team. Even if the relationship is irreparable for the long run, the team should have done what it needed to maintain his trade value for when they do unload him.

I'm not saying this doesn't sqaurely fall on Marshall--it does. What I am saying is that rather than play chicken with the guy and wait for him to break with childish communication like was done, the team should have recognized the volatility of the situation, and done what was possible to douse the flames. I'm not talking new contract, I'm talking of a sitdown honest conversation letting him know in no uncertain terms that he's a valuable member of the team and that the best thing for him to do in terms of his own and the team's best interest was to play hard, have a great year and then see what happens.Pouting at him and lying to the media about everything being ok is almost as bad as what he did.

This was a very predictable outcome and rather than coldly wait for an overgrown manchild to lose it, the team should have anticipated, played their cards better by being more conciliatory, and done all in their power to maintain the overall strength of the team.

Like him or not, we are not better without BM. This team just took a step backwards.


Thou Shalt Kiss No Ass!

They had no intent on trading him unless that got obscene value. And that was before his latest stunt. Teams weren't calling before and they definitely won't now.

We are better with him, but we can get by without him. Again, I'll mention we are rebuilding and with or without Marshall, our season won't be that much different regardless with him in the lineup. He is a very good receiver, but not a game changer.

[honz]

I simply can't defend Marshall anymore until he shows a change in attitude...what a dumbass.

[Northman]

I simply can't defend Marshall anymore until he shows a change in attitude...what a dumbass.

Accountability.

[OldschoolFreak]

Now contrast that with Marshall's behavior and reaction TO THE SAME TREATMENT.



NTL, I see some value in this approach. Consistency is important--agreed. But nothing is black and white and sometimes there's value in evaluating situations indivdually. My point here is that the immaturity of the player was apparent and rather than stick to his guns at all costs, McD and the FO could have tried a little bit more actively to get on his level and diffuse the situation.

Again, we're all speculating and maybe this did occur without my knowledge of it happening. I just don't think that's the case though given what we've seen of McD. I will repeat, I AM NOT ANTI-MCD and my absolute biggest hope is for him to be wildly succesful as the coach of this organization. But there are shades of grey and it seems to me he could tone down the hardass routine a little bit, and have some compassion, approachability, friendliness, wisdom or wisdom that I just haven't seen from him yet.

Look people, let's not get off track with an argument here. Bottom line I think we can all agree on.....

-This is a bummer as the team just got worse in losing an NFL elite player.
-BM appears to be one of the league's great idiots.

[Ravage!!!]

Right now McDaniels has a communication problem. Wiegman is not a good comparison considering Wiegman is on his 14th season and has played for 5 teams. He wasn't going anywhere. Marshall is going into his 4th and is an elite talent.

I know Marshall isn't handling this correctly, but surely we can see that McDaniels is having some major issues with communications and handling egos. Where in the NFL do you not see coaches dealing with 23 year old arrogant millionaires? Yet its possible that the Broncos could lose there two VERY top players in the same season, one being a top QB???

yes, players are cocky. Yes players are arrogant. Yes they are immature. But right now, so is our coach. He's all the above and right now seems to have a tendency to escalate these problems rather than have the ability to nip them in the bud. Every franchise has to deal with these types of scenarios.

[outdoor_miner]

There have been plenty of new head coaches that have come into the league, plenty of new schemes, how often have we heard of a teams #1 receiver, a top 5 receiver in the league, a back-to-back 100 reception receiver playing safety on the scoute team.

As I said previously, there has been a clear progression of punishment (the publicly visible ones were 2nd team on depth chart, scout team, and now the suspension - I'm sure there were in house ones before these). In my opinion, it is clear that last week's drama was an attempt to show Brandon that they were serious about his behavior without going the suspension route. It clearly did not work.

[OldschoolFreak]

Right now McDaniels has a communication problem. Wiegman is not a good comparison considering Wiegman is on his 14th season and has played for 5 teams. He wasn't going anywhere. Marshall is going into his 4th and is an elite talent.

I know Marshall isn't handling this correctly, but surely we can see that McDaniels is having some major issues with communications and handling egos. Where in the NFL do you not see coaches dealing with 23 year old arrogant millionaires? Yet its possible that the Broncos could lose there two VERY top players in the same season, one being a top QB???

yes, players are cocky. Yes players are arrogant. Yes they are immature. But right now, so is our coach. He's all the above and right now seems to have a tendency to escalate these problems rather than have the ability to nip them in the bud. Every franchise has to deal with these types of scenarios.

Exactly. For all the great things McD has brought, he needs to tone down the arrogance and work on player communication and overall approachability.

[Reidman]

These last few days displaying Brandon Marshall's conduct have allowed the
rest of us who stood behind him to see his true colors...adios numbnuts...

Can't believe he just walked when the rest of the team was running, and
batted down balls in a pass and catch drill....absolutely heartless...

[Superchop 7]

Exactly. For all the great things McD has brought, he needs to tone down the arrogance and work on player communication and overall approachability.


__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

Amen.........

[MOtorboat]

Exactly. For all the great things McD has brought, he needs to tone down the arrogance and work on player communication and overall approachability.

Yup.

That's exactly why Brandon Marshall got suspended.

[outdoor_miner]

There's no evidence, given McD's hardline approach that they did, though I have no proof that is the case. Every interview, press release, etc. I've seen of him is that he's uncommunicative and takes a hard nosed "my way or the highway" approach.

Well - I can't really argue with you, as I don't know either.

What I do know is that Marshall is showing himself to really be a Baby TO (with more off the field baggage). 3 organizations attempted to deal with TO without much success (SF, Phili, Dallas)... Those organizations are not run by nitwits. I imagine people tried to "sit down and talk" with TO. You just can't get through to some people.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Exactly they baited one of their own players into this. They know Brandon and knew that putting him on ST's would break him and cause a reaction. Great job coach McD you got what you wanted......one less probowler on your team.

Marshall broke himself but just maybe if he'd have stepped up to the plate and became a team player something good would have happened. Maybe he could have got the trade next season and everybody would be happy.

Marshall chose to be a baby and throw a tantrum no one forced him to do that. It sure as hell ain't McD's fault.

[OldschoolFreak]

Well -
What I do know is that Marshall is showing himself to really be a Baby TO (with more off the field baggage). 3 organizations attempted to deal with TO without much success (SF, Phili, Dallas)... Those organizations are not run by nitwits. I imagine people tried to "sit down and talk" with TO. You just can't get through to some people.

Yeah. I can't think of a player in the league with more appropriate initials.:lol:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Exactly. For all the great things McD has brought, he needs to tone down the arrogance and work on player communication and overall approachability.

So, McDaniels needs to work on player communication. Does that mean that before each practice, McD should have went up to Marshall, and ask him if he wanted to practice with his teammates that day? And, should McD have told Marshall that he would really like to see him go at it 100%, but if Marshall did not want to do that, it was OK if he just wanted to go at it at 50%

[Northman]

My point here is that the immaturity of the player was apparent and rather than stick to his guns at all costs, McD and the FO could have tried a little bit more actively to get on his level and diffuse the situation.



And i think one of our points is we have a coach who has seen that giving in to prima donnas doesnt equate to championships. This isnt like Cutler is on the same level mentally as a Tom Brady or Brandon is a Jerry Rice. The reason these players are having issues is because they are having a hard time adjusting to change. And not just a change in the guard but a change in philosphy in which Shanahan babied them.

[OldschoolFreak]

Marshall chose to be a baby and throw a tantrum no one forced him to do that. It sure as hell ain't McD's fault.

And no one said that it was. Why is it always such extremes here?

Did BM royally bungle this. Without a doubt.
Could the FO have perhaps dealt with it better by avoiding some of the escalation? Seems like a reasonable possibility to me.

[OldschoolFreak]

So, McDaniels needs to work on player communication. Does that mean that before each practice, McD should have went up to Marshall, and ask him if he wanted to practice with his teammates that day? And, should McD have told Marshall that he would really like to see him go at it 100%, but if Marshall did not want to do that, it was OK if he just wanted to go at it at 50%

Yeah. That's what I said!

Come on people...shades of grey.

Pointing out a fault in strategy by the FO does not equate to an attempted coup.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Yeah. That's what I said!

Come on people...shades of grey.

Pointing out a fault in strategy by the FO does not equate to an attempted coup.

Then what exactly do you feel McDaniels should have done, or not done, keeping in mind that Marshall is not the only player on the team?

[Tempus Fugit]

Exactly. For all the great things McD has brought, he needs to tone down the arrogance and work on player communication and overall approachability.

No offense, but you know nothing about any level of arrogance or approachability. You simply assume it. It's a bad assumption. The same comment has been made about Pioli and Haley in K.C. and Belichick in New England. Not surprisingly, the players in New England don't claim that Belichick is arrogant, because it's just people on the outside foolishly throwing labels around.

What too many people here have overlooked is that McDaniels is doing what he thinks he has to in order to change the culture in Denver. And, for those who want to claim that the culture in Denver was fine, the crybaby antics of Cutler and Marshall show otherwise. The players will learn to buy into the system, or the players will end up on other teams. That's not arrogance. It's an attempt to avoid becoming the Bengals, Raiders or Cowboys.

Terry Glenn found that out in New England when Belichick suspended him. What's happening in Denver is nothing new.

[CoachChaz]

And no one said that it was. Why is it always such extremes here?

Did BM royally bungle this. Without a doubt.
Could the FO have perhaps dealt with it better by avoiding some of the escalation? Seems like a reasonable possibility to me.

Your assessment on BM is fact. Your assessment on the FO is assumption.

I know it sucks, but it's the truth.

[OldschoolFreak]

And i think one of our points is we have a coach who has seen that giving in to prima donnas doesnt equate to championships. This isnt like Cutler is on the same level mentally as a Tom Brady or Brandon is a Jerry Rice. The reason these players are having issues is because they are having a hard time adjusting to change. And not just a change in the guard but a change in philosphy in which Shanahan babied them.

I agree there's an element of this. You do indeed need to bring in accountability right away and build a thriving team culture. But part of that involves meeting people halfway--I'm not talking about handing out contracts but for godsake, don't alienate people by being completely non-approachable.

[MHCBill]

My point remains they baited him into this action. That is NOT how you resolve an issue with a player. You sit down and talk to them. Of course everytime coach McD has sat down with a player (cutler & BMarsh) they leave the meeting pissed off.

Lets just hope Josh never becomes head of diplomatic relations for the US or were going to get nuked.How do you know what was said in those meetings to "piss" them off?

All that needed said is, "I'm the boss, do what I ask."

[Ravage!!!]

Your assessment on BM is fact. Your assessment on the FO is assumption.

I know it sucks, but it's the truth.

SO you don't think that the FO has had a tendency not to escalate these problems, and they are handling it perfectly? Thats a fact??????????

Come on.. the TRUTH is... the FO hasn't shown that they are able/willing to even handle these kinds of problems, and the NFL is full of them.

[MHCBill]

The funniest part is... if BMarsh comes to camp and performs like he can, he'd get PAID handsomely.

Now, he ****** it up beyond repair.

Some of these guys will never get it.

I LOVE EDDIE ROYAL!!! (This is a professional.)

[Traveler]

Exactly. For all the great things McD has brought, he needs to tone down the arrogance and work on player communication and overall approachability.

I don't see the arrogance you are speaking of. This reminds me so much of the Giants when Tom Coughlin first got there. Players *****ed and moaned about how tough practices and training camp was. Same in Denver. Players that didn't "buy" into the system weren't around very long. Same in Denver.

Eventually, Coughlin eased up on the Drill Sargeant approach once he had the type players he needed and weeded out the ones he didn't. My guess is that McDaniels will ease up too once everyone understands how things will be run and he gets the type of players needed to execute the new schemes.

Parcells and the other great coaches (not inferring that McDaniels is a great coach) didn't kiss a players ass, why should McDaniels? Oh wait, because he hasn't proved anything yet, right?

[OldschoolFreak]

No offense, but you know nothing about any level of arrogance or approachability. You simply assume it. It's a bad assumption.

I don't think so. Again, I support McD. But from day one there's been a significant amount of alienation and discontent with several players. Does that mean I think bend over backwards to keep them at all costs? No. Maybe Cutler was a lost cause I don't know. But it doesn't seem like it to me.

It's not so one sided that it's just the players here. When in NFL history do you recall a top 10 unit full of young players approaching their prime being gutted? Maybe you're convinced that this is black and white and that Cutler and Marshall were both just hotheaded garbage and that were better off without them? I do not. I think there's a middle ground in which you instill a culture but avoid pushing people out.

[Dortoh]

Well regardless of which "side" you are taking here McD will be held accountable for the product on the field. Lets hope he gets more then one year to prove his ability to produce a winner or hes in deep shit.

[OldschoolFreak]

How do you know what was said in those meetings to "piss" them off?

All that needed said is, "I'm the boss, do what I ask."

Do you really think that? Hardline approaches with no room for circumstance or compassion do not succeed.

[Superchop 7]

Quoted from ESPN the magazine.

(regarding Belichick, )

Thats why they like him as a boss. He makes his own copies. He maintains that his assistants work with him, not for him. He doesn't do small talk, but always says hello in the hallway. "He doesn't think he's above anyone" Pioli says.


Josh's problem is arrogance, he does think he is better than anyone and it shows.

And it interferes.

It clouds judgement.

He may have learned X's and O's in New England.

But he missed the most important lesson he could have learned.

[Northman]

I agree there's an element of this. You do indeed need to bring in accountability right away and build a thriving team culture. But part of that involves meeting people halfway--I'm not talking about handing out contracts but for godsake, don't alienate people by being completely non-approachable.

Again, nothing i have seen from McDaniels shows that he isnt approachable. It sounds like the two players in question didnt like what was said to them and decided to force their way out.

[broncophan]

Wow.......this team is so messed up....it is almost hard to believe.........How fast things have gone into the crapper....

just cut the clown and move on....

[Tempus Fugit]

I don't think so. Again, I support McD. But from day one there's been a significant amount of alienation and discontent with several players. Does that mean I think bend over backwards to keep them at all costs? No. Maybe Cutler was a lost cause I don't know. But it doesn't seem like it to me.

It's not so one sided that it's just the players here. When in NFL history do you recall a top 10 unit full of young players approaching their prime being gutted? Maybe you're convinced that this is black and white and that Cutler and Marshall were both just hotheaded garbage and that were better off without them? I do not. I think there's a middle ground in which you instill a culture but avoid pushing people out.

Really? Which coaches have accomplished that in the past 20 years? It's certainly not been done that way by Parcells or Belichick, for example, and they are the gold standard.

Going from a hardass coach to a cream puff is easy. It's just fatal over time. Going from a cream puff to a hard ass pretty much ensures that you'll have issues. All Denver fans have to do is look over at K.C. and you'll note that the same problems were happening, but the players didn't escalate the problems.

[topscribe]

I agree there's an element of this. You do indeed need to bring in accountability right away and build a thriving team culture. But part of that involves meeting people halfway--I'm not talking about handing out contracts but for godsake, don't alienate people by being completely non-approachable.


Do you really think that? Hardline approaches with no room for circumstance or compassion do not succeed.

Should I take that as your assumption that McDaniels has no compassion or has
left no room for circumstances? I mean, even reporters much closer to the
situation than we don't know the details. How could we know?

-----

[OldschoolFreak]

Really? Which coaches have accomplished that in the past 20 years? It's certainly not been done that way by Parcells or Belichick, for example, and they are the gold standard.


I disagree. As someone posted earlier, Bellichick is disciplined and focused but that doesn't make him unapproachable. From all that I've heard out of NE, he's actually honest and communicative with the players telling them exactly what he expects and needs from them and letting them know their role as only one part of the larger team.

So to answer your question--Bellickick, Cowher, Shannahan (was a hardass early on in hos career), Seifert, even Dungy who didn't scream like a maniac but had clearly defined accountability would qualify.

[OldschoolFreak]

Should I take that as your assumption that McDaniels has no compassion or has
left no room for circumstances? I mean, even reporters much closer to the
situation than we don't know the details. How could we know?

-----

I'm not claiming to know and do acknowledge that I'm speaking from appearances. But the appearances are driven by the actual occurrences we've seen in the past few months here. McD and Cutler really did fail to come to a point of agreement on a situation that possibly could have been defused. So far the same can be said of the BM situation.

[topscribe]

I'm not claiming to know and do acknowledge that I'm speaking from appearances. But the appearances are driven by the actual occurrences we've seen in the past few months here. McD and Cutler really did fail to come to a point of agreement on a situation that possibly could have been defused. So far the same can be said of the BM situation.

I've seen the same appearances and obviously have interpreted them differently.
So, since we have nothing more than such appearances to go by, then would it
not behoove us to be a bit less assumptive about what is going on behind
closed doors?

-----

[outdoor_miner]

Josh's problem is arrogance, he does think he is better than anyone and it shows.

Where do you guys come up with this??? This is 100% pure conjecture and speculation that you state as fact. Yes, maybe he is arrogant. Then again, maybe he is not.

Personally, I watch the guy speak and he does not come across as arrogant. Read articles from guys like Woody Paige, who has been all over McDaniels moves from a football perspective, and Woody says he is humble, approachable, and funny. That is what I get from watching too.

Maybe behind the scenes he is a tyrant. I will admit: it is a possibility. However, from all public appearances, that does not appear to be the case.

[Dortoh]

I've seen the same appearances, and obviously have interpreted them differently.
So, since we have nothing more than such appearances to go by, then would it
not behoove us to be a bit less assumptive about what is going on behind
closed doors?

-----

Boring :laugh:

[sanluis]

You guys might not believe this now ... but you might be better off without this head case malcontent on your team.....

[Ravage!!!]

I've seen the same appearances, and obviously have interpreted them differently.
So, since we have nothing more than such appearances to go by, then would it
not behoove us to be a bit less assumptive about what is going on behind
closed doors?

-----

That could be said about assuming the players motives as well.

[CoachChaz]

Where do you guys come up with this??? This is 100% pure conjecture and speculation that you state as fact. Yes, maybe he is arrogant. Then again, maybe he is not.

Personally, I watch the guy speak and he does not come across as arrogant. Read articles from guys like Woody Paige, who has been all over McDaniels moves from a football perspective, and Woody says he is humble, approachable, and funny. That is what I get from watching too.

Maybe behind the scenes he is a tyrant. I will admit: it is a possibility. However, from all public appearances, that does not appear to be the case.

Just live with the fact that some people just know everything based on what feeds their argument and life will be alot easier here.

[OldschoolFreak]

Let me first state once again that I do support McD and hope he does well. However, it is possible to constructively criticize those we support and I think the team would be better off in the long run if the organization addressed this distressful trend of star player flight. It's not being, as you say, assumptive to judge the outcomes and that's what I'm basing this on.

Regardless of who's "fault" it is, Cutler and now BM have essentially been run out or been allowed to run out of town. Without talking about any of the personal traits of the players in question, it is not a good thing for a team to lose it's top talent.

[roomemp]

Anybody on this forum who is saying that McDaniels created this Marshall mess obviously has not been following it.....If anything McDaniels has protected Marshall with his comments.

[Dortoh]

I wonder if it would be worth looking into an evaluation. Maybe he just needs Prozac cocktails or something.

[Tempus Fugit]

I disagree. As someone posted earlier, Bellichick is disciplined and focused but that doesn't make him unapproachable. From all that I've heard out of NE, he's actually honest and communicative with the players telling them exactly what he expects and needs from them and letting them know their role as only one part of the larger team.

So to answer your question--Bellickick, Cowher, Shannahan (was a hardass early on in hos career), Seifert, even Dungy who didn't scream like a maniac but had clearly defined accountability would qualify.

I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong here, and the Terry Glenn situation is a perfect example of what I'm talking about:

He lost 4 games because of the substance abuse policy and then didn't bother showing up at Patriots camp. The Patriots did try to suspend him for the whole season, but an arbitrator overturned that suspension.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/16/sports/pro-football-glenn-suspended-by-patriots.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/14/sports/plus-pro-football-suspension-over-glenn-is-activated.html

The later suspension was for 1 regular season game. After that, he was not activated for the playoff games and did not receive a Super Bowl ring.

What's going on in Denver went on in New England, and has gone on in Kansas City to a lesser extent. The difference is that the players in Denver were bigger idiots than the players in Kansas City. Marshall himself has said that the problems began before McDaniels arrived, and everyone already knows that Cutler was butthurt before McDaniels ever arrived on the scene.

[jrelway]

mother ****. what a wonderful offseason so far. maybe this wakes marshall up. hope he comes back and dominates for us. people tend to work or play harder when their pockets are lighter.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I'm not claiming to know and do acknowledge that I'm speaking from appearances. But the appearances are driven by the actual occurrences we've seen in the past few months here. McD and Cutler really did fail to come to a point of agreement on a situation that possibly could have been defused. So far the same can be said of the BM situation.

Or in Cutler's case, he could have thought - oh HELL, with this new offensive scheme, I will NOT be in the spotlight each week. And, I want to be known as the "TOP DOG".

[CoachChaz]

Or in Cutler's case, he could have thought - oh HELL, with this new offensive scheme, I will NOT be in the spotlight each week. And, I want to be known as the "TOP DOG".

That was always my question.

I am asked to run the system Tom Brady ran. I have more talent than Brady...I have more talent around me than Brady...I watched Brady break records and win Super Bowls with less offensive talent.



Screw all that...I want out.

[Northman]

I wonder if it would be worth looking into an evaluation. Maybe he just needs Prozac cocktails or something.

I can use one considering this offseason.

[Ravage!!!]

What's going on in Denver went on in New England, and has gone on in Kansas City to a lesser extent. The difference is that the players in Denver were bigger idiots than the players in Kansas City. Marshall himself has said that the problems began before McDaniels arrived, and everyone already knows that Cutler was butthurt before McDaniels ever arrived on the scene.

I thought you were attempting to talk in facts?? Seems this is another situation where only the facts you wish to see, apply.

OldSchool is saying that just because the 'issues' happened before McD got here, doesn't mean HE has shown the ability to diffuse these situations AT ALL.. from the time he's gotten here. Marshall's problem was with the training staff. How many times do you see a player wishing to leave a team due to the training staff??

We don't know whats going on behind closed doors. Despite your "assumption" that Cutler wanted out before McDaniels arrival, the point is McD DID try to trade him away. We know hat Cutler met with him, and after that meeting things were worse than they were before the meeting.

Seems McDaniels DOES have a communication problem. He does appear arrogant, and I honestly believe he's attempting to be so much like Bellicheck, that he's just failing. He's not shown the ability (yet) to diffuse and settle any kind of problem without simply throwing down teh "my way or the highway." Sometimes thats the right thing to do. But when you see the probability of two of your VERY BEST Players leaving in one offseason..... there HAS to be some fingers pointed at the ones COMMUNICATING with those players. Something isn't working.

[MOtorboat]

I thought you were attempting to talk in facts?? Seems this is another situation where only the facts you wish to see, apply.

OldSchool is saying that just because the 'issues' happened before McD got here, doesn't mean HE has shown the ability to diffuse these situations AT ALL.. from the time he's gotten here. Marshall's problem was with the training staff. How many times do you see a player wishing to leave a team due to the training staff??

We don't know whats going on behind closed doors. Despite your "assumption" that Cutler wanted out before McDaniels arrival, the point is McD DID try to trade him away. We know hat Cutler met with him, and after that meeting things were worse than they were before the meeting.

Seems McDaniels DOES have a communication problem. He does appear arrogant, and I honestly believe he's attempting to be so much like Bellicheck, that he's just failing. He's not shown the ability (yet) to diffuse and settle any kind of problem without simply throwing down teh "my way or the highway." Sometimes thats the right thing to do. But when you see the probability of two of your VERY BEST Players leaving in one offseason..... there HAS to be some fingers pointed at the ones COMMUNICATING with those players. Something isn't working.

First, it has been established from Cutler's own mouth that he was displeased with what was going on BEFORE McDaniels was hired. He said it himself. Tempus was not asserting that he said he wanted to be traded, but that he was unhappy. This has been proven.

Second, Marshall has not been meeting with McDaniels according to the media reports. He has been meeting with Bowlen, and Bowlen alone.

[OldschoolFreak]

Folks, it was great chatting with you this morning. Can I just state a couple things before I head out?


1-I love the Broncos. Strangely, all of this bickering is hopefully driven by the same sentiment in all of you.
2-BM is a big queef. He's a great player though who could really help the team. I hope we're able to get a handle on this and no, I won't yet admit that all is lost.

[topscribe]

That could be said about assuming the players motives as well.

That is true. But motive is not the issue. Behavior is.

And Marshall's behavior has been obvious.

-----

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I can understand Coach McDaniels getting some blame for how the Cutler debacle unfolded, but it is absolutely wrong and unnecessary for anyone here to be putting this on Josh. Nothing regarding Brandon Marshall and his treasure trove of league troubles has to do with Coach McDaniels. Marshall is a grown man, capable of making his own decisions that will either be in his best interest or not of any interest at all. It seems as if he has chosen the latter path, which recently led to a talk at the big house which landed him a SUSPENSION.

Coach McDaniels had been nothing but supportive of Brandon in his comments regarding his play in camp (when he did play) and allowing him the proper time to gather himself for his legal battle. For anyone to come across and say otherwise is just disingenuous. I think anyone trying to baby Marshall here or defend him from "Big Bad Josh" needs to re-evaluate what has transpired with Brandon over um, well the past several years.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

And Marshall's behavior has been obvious.

-----

Obvious or obnoxious, Top? Perhaps both. I don't even know if there are enough words that can emphasize how poorly he has acted.

[wbmustang]

It's official this has been the worst offseason EVER! I will never have my mom buy me a Broncos calendar ever again. I looked at it the other day and literally like over 50% is no good. WTF Marshall I just don't know what to say at this point. I am a fan but it's going to be tough watching games this year. Queue the patron shots.

[dogfish]

cripes, what a waste!


well, if nothing else it'll be interesting to see how it plays out once he comes back from the suspension. . . i suppose it's always possible that this will be the kick in the ass he needed to get his mind right (since we can't put him in the box), but at this point it seems unlikely. . . for one thing, brandon is a freakin' knucklehead, and that type of outcome just clearly isn't in the cards with the way things have been going for us this offseason. . .

i think it must be the curse of shanahan, as his vindictiveness pours ill fate on the team that fired him. . . .

so what happens next? obviously he's not going to catch up on the offense while he's suspended, so i'm guessing that when he comes back he's on the bottom of the depth chart. . . will we give him a sincere opportunity to earn his way back into our good graces and back into a starting role if he comes out and shows that he's now ready to do what it takes? or will we immediately put him on the punt coverage team? and if we do give him an opportunity, will he make an honest effort to take advantage of it, or continue to sulk and half-ass it?

you'd think at some point that his agent would tell him that he needs to grow the F up and start working if he wants to get either that trade or a new deal anywhere, but apparently the dipshit thinks he's drew rosendouche and he and marshall can get what they want by throwing a massive tantrum. . . . :tsk:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Well Dogfish, if Brandon says that playing football is what makes him happy, he might as well make the best of it when he gets the opportunity to play football again. You'd think with all the second chances he got regarding past legal history, he'd of thought things through better this time and not messed up. Murphy's Law should be changed to Marshall's Law, because it's quite obvious that anything that can go wrong, will go wrong with this dipshit.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Marshall has a track record of throwing tantrums and being a baby. This fiasco just supports a well known fact about him.

I don't know how much of a role McD played in it but it seems all Marshall had to is just step up, be a team player and play football. This entire mess could have been avoided.

Did the FO do something that caused Marshall to freak out? Well if they caused this, the Broncos are dead in the water and we're doomed with or without Marshall.

Time will tell and I have time to wait. If McD is going to hang himself then so be it. It won't take long for this to sort out. My guess is Marshall played the larger role in it.

[pnbronco]

Exactly. For all the great things McD has brought, he needs to tone down the arrogance and work on player communication and overall approachability.

Sorry OSF but I have to respectfully disagree with you 100%. The coach I saw day after day at camp is not a arrogant, ego driven person. In 10 years of going to camp I have never seen a head coach interact so much with his players. Work with them one on one, do drills with them to explain how this works and that works. During stretches he would walk around and talk to different players each day and you could tell it was just BSing, lot of smiles and laughing. I have never felt so welcome as a fan and that was all on Coach McD.

I think Casey is a prime example of how a adult hands conflict. I thank him and shook his hand for being a professional on how he handled his contract. He proved he was willing to follow the guild lines set, instead of saying I'm so important you will cave in to me and I will destroy this line to prove my point. He was pissed and expressed it, but McD did not punish him for that.

I am so tired of physically talented players thinking they don't have to be accountable for their actions. Maybe if someone had done this years ago Brandon would not have so much growing up to do. I have never heard him once say that he was in this position he is because of his off the field antics. Which means he still doesn't get it.

I think it is a slap in the face to players that have worked their butt off and have acted like men since the beginning of OTA's to say we need to treat Brandon special. I would rather see the children of our community see that hard work get you rewards and foolishness get's you in the dog house that you belong in.

[claymore]

Saw Marshalls antics during lunch on ESPN. LOL, thats all I could do was laugh.

[WARHORSE]

Look, clearly Marshall is an idiot and 90% of this falls on him, not the team. BUT...we were discussing the issue on this forum about a week ago and some people made the argument that despite Marshall's failings, the impetus was on McD to get over himself and try to be reconsiliatory rather than standoffish.

In hindsight that is 100% accurate. Dumbass or not, Marshall is a Probowler and the best receiver on the team. Even if the relationship is irreparable for the long run, the team should have done what it needed to maintain his trade value for when they do unload him.

I'm not saying this doesn't sqaurely fall on Marshall--it does. What I am saying is that rather than play chicken with the guy and wait for him to break with childish communication like was done, the team should have recognized the volatility of the situation, and done what was possible to douse the flames. I'm not talking new contract, I'm talking of a sitdown honest conversation letting him know in no uncertain terms that he's a valuable member of the team and that the best thing for him to do in terms of his own and the team's best interest was to play hard, have a great year and then see what happens.Pouting at him and lying to the media about everything being ok is almost as bad as what he did.

This was a very predictable outcome and rather than coldly wait for an overgrown manchild to lose it, the team should have anticipated, played their cards better by being more conciliatory, and done all in their power to maintain the overall strength of the team.

Like him or not, we are not better without BM. This team just took a step backwards.


I dont think McDaniels has been standoffish at all. Its not too much to EXPECT players who are being paid millions of dollars to behave professionally.

It has been Marshall who has delivered the ultimatums......not McDaniels or the Broncos.

Marshall is under contract......a contract with his signature at the bottom.

It was BOWLEN who ultimately decided to trade Cutler after he wouldnt answer his calls, not McDaniels.

McDaniels has the support of the lockeroom.

NUFF SAID.

[CoachChaz]

I know it's a sore spot, but stop and listen to the things Vick is saying lately. The open-minded individual will see that his comments are sincere, remorseful and heart-felt. They arent "prepared" statements.

It's an example of what happens to someone when they realize their mistakes and grow up.

[WARHORSE]

Sorry OSF but I have to respectfully disagree with you 100%. The coach I saw day after day at camp is not a arrogant, ego driven person. In 10 years of going to camp I have never seen a head coach interact so much with his players. Work with them one on one, do drills with them to explain how this works and that works. During stretches he would walk around and talk to different players each day and you could tell it was just BSing, lot of smiles and laughing. I have never felt so welcome as a fan and that was all on Coach McD.

I think Casey is a prime example of how a adult hands conflict. I thank him and shook his hand for being a professional on how he handled his contract. He proved he was willing to follow the guild lines set, instead of saying I'm so important you will cave in to me and I will destroy this line to prove my point. He was pissed and expressed it, but McD did not punish him for that.

I am so tired of physically talented players thinking they don't have to be accountable for their actions. Maybe if someone had done this years ago Brandon would not have so much growing up to do. I have never heard him once say that he was in this position he is because of his off the field antics. Which means he still doesn't get it.

I think it is a slap in the face to players that have worked their butt off and have acted like men since the beginning of OTA's to say we need to treat Brandon special. I would rather see the children of our community see that hard work get you rewards and foolishness get's you in the dog house that you belong in.


Five stars PN.

McDaniels is doing it right.

[WARHORSE]

I know it's a sore spot, but stop and listen to the things Vick is saying lately. The open-minded individual will see that his comments are sincere, remorseful and heart-felt. They arent "prepared" statements.

It's an example of what happens to someone when they realize their mistakes and grow up.


I was surprised to hear Plaxico state that all his privileges were taken away from him by HIMSELF.

But that is definitely the realization that has to take place with Marshall.

Looks to me like he needs to attend anger management.

Are Sandler and Nicholson available?

[Day1BroncoFan]

Sorry OSF but I have to respectfully disagree with you 100%. The coach I saw day after day at camp is not a arrogant, ego driven person. In 10 years of going to camp I have never seen a head coach interact so much with his players. Work with them one on one, do drills with them to explain how this works and that works. During stretches he would walk around and talk to different players each day and you could tell it was just BSing, lot of smiles and laughing. I have never felt so welcome as a fan and that was all on Coach McD.

I think Casey is a prime example of how a adult hands conflict. I thank him and shook his hand for being a professional on how he handled his contract. He proved he was willing to follow the guild lines set, instead of saying I'm so important you will cave in to me and I will destroy this line to prove my point. He was pissed and expressed it, but McD did not punish him for that.

I am so tired of physically talented players thinking they don't have to be accountable for their actions. Maybe if someone had done this years ago Brandon would not have so much growing up to do. I have never heard him once say that he was in this position he is because of his off the field antics. Which means he still doesn't get it.

I think it is a slap in the face to players that have worked their butt off and have acted like men since the beginning of OTA's to say we need to treat Brandon special. I would rather see the children of our community see that hard work get you rewards and foolishness get's you in the dog house that you belong in.

This coming from someone whom has actually been there and seen what happens means more than all the BS speculation and conjecture all the rest no matter which side their on.

:salute:

[underrated29]

Seriously. What is he thinking.

He has to know he is not going to get paid this offseason. They already said it. Boiling over isnt going to do anything to help either.

He really has no choices. We arent paying this year and we arent trading him. You can either play and get paid or do what he did and sit. But he shouldnt be all pissy about it, like if you hope for something it might come true.

just makes no sense.

[Ravage!!!]

I know it's a sore spot, but stop and listen to the things Vick is saying lately. The open-minded individual will see that his comments are sincere, remorseful and heart-felt. They arent "prepared" statements.

It's an example of what happens to someone when they realize their mistakes and grow up.

They aren't prepared??? seriously??

I agree with you that he's grown up, but that "growing up" happens fast when you are behing prison walls and barbed wire fences. I'm not quite sure what that has to do with this situation, but I do know that Vick has had a LOT of coaching from mentors.

[Tned]

Here is a rough summary of the press conference:

Hopefully, there is a transcript. Some highlights:


He was warned prior to Wednesday's practice (when the video was taken).
He didn't attend practice yesterday, but has been in the meetings.
He was suspended for a accumulation of actions that he wouldn't go into, but the warning prior to Wednesday's practice was related to this cumulation of events.
Marshall and his agent have acted very professional in not airing the results of their meetings that have not always gone perfectly.
Players are not given playbooks (was asked something) and he reiterated, I don't know where that came from, we don't give out playbooks -- players don't have playbooks.
Marshall has been in tons of meetings, he is a bright football player, he can learn our offense.
Brandon has not been a distraction to the team. He has not seen one, not one, instance where any other player has been distracted by this.
The other players are focused on getting ready for an NFL season, and Chicago this weekend. It hasn't been a distraction.
He comes back on the 6th and he is hopefull that everything will work and he will play for the Broncos this season.
He said he isn't saying it will happen, but he is hopeful.
Whether Brandon is on the team or not, they have a good receiving corp and will be fine.
While he is a talent, they haven't been able to put the time into figuring out specifically how they would use Marshall, because with injuries and stuff, he hasn't practiced constantly enough.
Health isn't an issue, he has run, caught, got seperation -- that isn't an issue.
He wouldn't shy away from communicating with Marshall (didn't sound like he would initiate -- couldn't hear the question), but he would not shy away from communicating with him between now and the 6th.

[MOtorboat]

Seriously. What is he thinking.

He's not.

[CoachChaz]

They aren't prepared??? seriously??

I agree with you that he's grown up, but that "growing up" happens fast when you are behing prison walls and barbed wire fences. I'm not quite sure what that has to do with this situation, but I do know that Vick has had a LOT of coaching from mentors.

When he is asked about his performance as he walks off a field and he says "i was so taken aback by the response I got from the fans that I just wanted to say thank you by going out and making a big play for them. Unfortunately, I tried too hard". I dont see how that is a prepared statement.

Yes, Vick had to learn one way, Plax will learn another. Why guys like Marshall cant learn from their own mistakes AND others is beyond me.

[Tned]

Sorry OSF but I have to respectfully disagree with you 100%. The coach I saw day after day at camp is not a arrogant, ego driven person. In 10 years of going to camp I have never seen a head coach interact so much with his players. Work with them one on one, do drills with them to explain how this works and that works. During stretches he would walk around and talk to different players each day and you could tell it was just BSing, lot of smiles and laughing. I have never felt so welcome as a fan and that was all on Coach McD.

I think Casey is a prime example of how a adult hands conflict. I thank him and shook his hand for being a professional on how he handled his contract. He proved he was willing to follow the guild lines set, instead of saying I'm so important you will cave in to me and I will destroy this line to prove my point. He was pissed and expressed it, but McD did not punish him for that.

I am so tired of physically talented players thinking they don't have to be accountable for their actions. Maybe if someone had done this years ago Brandon would not have so much growing up to do. I have never heard him once say that he was in this position he is because of his off the field antics. Which means he still doesn't get it.

I think it is a slap in the face to players that have worked their butt off and have acted like men since the beginning of OTA's to say we need to treat Brandon special. I would rather see the children of our community see that hard work get you rewards and foolishness get's you in the dog house that you belong in.

Being out there, you probably have a much better feel than most most of us how McDaniels conducts himself during practices.

I do think Casey handled it professionally, but at the same time he wasn't shy about saying if they didn't renegotiate, he would simply retire.

[Ravage!!!]

When he is asked about his performance as he walks off a field and he says "i was so taken aback by the response I got from the fans that I just wanted to say thank you by going out and making a big play for them. Unfortunately, I tried too hard". I dont see how that is a prepared statement.

Yes, Vick had to learn one way, Plax will learn another. Why guys like Marshall cant learn from their own mistakes AND others is beyond me.

I think he's been coached in ways that would be sure to say things like "I just wanted to thank the fans...blah blah blah" no matter what he was asked. His team of pr people and mentors know he has to earn the fans.

As far as to why Marshall can't learn from Vick and Plax..... I think because these young kids see these two as doing something criminal. Thus their attempt to renegotiate contracts or try and force a trade doesn't register as being similar.

[Tned]

Seriously. What is he thinking.

He has to know he is not going to get paid this offseason. They already said it. Boiling over isnt going to do anything to help either.

He really has no choices. We arent paying this year and we arent trading him. You can either play and get paid or do what he did and sit. But he shouldnt be all pissy about it, like if you hope for something it might come true.

just makes no sense.

Based on what Marshall said last night, and McDaniels today, it seems his behavior on Wednesday was either an up yours or a "I don't care anymore" after he was warned prior to practice that he could be suspended if _______ " continues. I put ______ in, because McDaniels didn't elaborate on what the behavior was prior to Wednesday's practice that prompted the warning.

[Dortoh]

Is this big enough for its own historical name? Like Marshallgate or something

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Seriously. What is he thinking.

He has to know he is not going to get paid this offseason. They already said it. Boiling over isnt going to do anything to help either.

He really has no choices. We arent paying this year and we arent trading him. You can either play and get paid or do what he did and sit. But he shouldnt be all pissy about it, like if you hope for something it might come true.

just makes no sense.

More in the article, but the following from the article:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13222721

The Broncos have suspended Marshall for conduct detrimental to the team. Because the suspension is only through the rest of the preseason, ending on Sept. 6, Marshall is not expected to file a grievance. Players do not start collecting their salaries until the regular season begins. If Marshall doesn't fall in line, the team would reserve the right to extend his suspension. The Broncos are to open their regular season Sept. 13 in Cincinnati.

[broncofaninfla]

I wonder if Marshall was sent home with a playbook?

[claymore]

More in the article, but the following from the article:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13222721

The Broncos have suspended Marshall for conduct detrimental to the team. Because the suspension is only through the rest of the preseason, ending on Sept. 6, Marshall is not expected to file a grievance. Players do not start collecting their salaries until the regular season begins. If Marshall doesn't fall in line, the team would reserve the right to extend his suspension. The Broncos are to open their regular season Sept. 13 in Cincinnati.

Loosely translated.... We need you to win the first 3 games Brandon.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I wonder if Marshall was sent home with a playbook?

In the press conference, McD once again said that he does NOT hand out playbooks, and he has no idea where that came from.

[broncofaninfla]

In the press conference, McD once again said that he does NOT hand out playbooks, and he has no idea where that came from.

Thanks Carol!

So Marshall will not be up to speed on the playbook upon his return. I guess that rules him out for week #1 too.

[CoachChaz]

Thanks Carol!

So Marshall will not be up to speed on the playbook upon his return. I guess that rules him out for week #1 too.

he earned it

[topscribe]

he earned it

The deeper one digs a hole, the harder it is for one to get out of it . . .

-----

[Tempus Fugit]

Loosely translated.... We need you to win the first 3 games Brandon.

No, it's a simple thing. The NFLPA would have an avenue in a grievance because the suspensions currently only cover 4 game maximums and don't differentiate between the exhibition season and the regular season. By doing this, the team puts Marshall in a position where he will lose all the preseason moneys, etc... and they can still nail him for the maximum 4 games during the regular season if he's an ass when he returns for week 1.

Whether you like it or not, the Broncos are playing this brilliantly.

[CoachChaz]

The deeper one digs a hole, the harder it is for one to get out of it . . .

-----

Seems to me it would be senseless to suspend a guy for the pre-season only to let him play the regular season anyway

[Tempus Fugit]

Seems to me it would be senseless to suspend a guy for the pre-season only to let him play the regular season anyway

I'd expect the team to bend over backwards for any reasonable football related requests by Marshall, such as plays, film, etc....

They're going to want him to be ready from the get-go, and they're not going to want him to have any excuses if they have to drop the hammer on him in week one.

[topscribe]

Seems to me it would be senseless to suspend a guy for the pre-season only to let him play the regular season anyway

My daddy used to say never to corner a guy without a way out. I see possibly
that tactic right there: are they giving him a warning that they can and will take
that measure if necessary?

-----

[outdoor_miner]

Let me first state once again that I do support McD and hope he does well. However, it is possible to constructively criticize those we support and I think the team would be better off in the long run if the organization addressed this distressful trend of star player flight. It's not being, as you say, assumptive to judge the outcomes and that's what I'm basing this on.

Regardless of who's "fault" it is, Cutler and now BM have essentially been run out or been allowed to run out of town. Without talking about any of the personal traits of the players in question, it is not a good thing for a team to lose it's top talent.

Great post - I think that this is where the real argument lies, and I can understand where you are coming from. I just can't stand it when the argument devolves into the "McD is the devil", "McD is a barely-functioning idiot", "No- he's a Belli-cheat clone" over-simplifications. It takes some valid questions (Does he have too much power at a young age? Is he underestimating the talent required to win in this league? Can he successfully manage mercurial personalities?), and shifts the focus into whether or not he kills babies at night or if he has pictures of Stalin hanging in his bedroom wall.

I like his focus on "team". I like his apparent preparation and attention to detail. However, the bottom line is that it appears we will lose 2 of our most talented players from last year. No matter how you slice it, that is a legitimate concern. It is the job of the Head Coach and FO to manage these things. That is why they are paid a ton of money. It's not easy. I can understand why people question these outcomes, although I am hopeful that we are taking a step back talent wise in the short term in order to build something special long-term.

[broncofaninfla]

I just picture Marshalls agent doing the Homer Simpson "Dough!!!!" after viewing the practice footage.

[claymore]

No, it's a simple thing. The NFLPA would have an avenue in a grievance because the suspensions currently only cover 4 game maximums and don't differentiate between the exhibition season and the regular season. By doing this, the team puts Marshall in a position where he will lose all the preseason moneys, etc... and they can still nail him for the maximum 4 games during the regular season if he's an ass when he returns for week 1.

Whether you like it or not, the Broncos are playing this brilliantly.

I can see that.

[Dortoh]

No, it's a simple thing. The NFLPA would have an avenue in a grievance because the suspensions currently only cover 4 game maximums and don't differentiate between the exhibition season and the regular season. By doing this, the team puts Marshall in a position where he will lose all the preseason moneys, etc... and they can still nail him for the maximum 4 games during the regular season if he's an ass when he returns for week 1.

Whether you like it or not, the Broncos are playing this brilliantly.

Um no, brilliantly played and we would not be talking about this.

[Day1BroncoFan]

The reason we're talking about this is because of Marshall. If he hadn't have acted like a baby in practice in front of news cameras we wouldn't be talking about it.

[Tempus Fugit]

Um no, brilliantly played and we would not be talking about this.

Um, no. Brilliantly played would be exactly what they did. A player was acting like a petulant child. A clause in the CBA was vague and would have led to a confrontation if the team had used the '4 regular season games' interpretation. Instead of that confrontation, the team basically gives Marshall 2 weeks to pull his head out of his ass, with the unspoken threat that the next display of stupidity will cost him 1/4 of his salary.

[Dortoh]

Um, no. Brilliantly played would be exactly what they did. A player was acting like a petulant child. A clause in the CBA was vague and would have led to a confrontation if the team had used the '4 regular season games' interpretation. Instead of that confrontation, the team basically gives Marshall 2 weeks to pull his head out of his ass, with the unspoken threat that the next display of stupidity will cost him 1/4 of his salary.

I dont think anyone is saying Marshall is not an ass but I still say the coach and front office handled this poorly. They should have been much more proactive with their star players and certainly should not have pushed Marshalls buttons for the sole purpose of getting a response out of him inorder to allow them to suspend him. That is pretty childish actions taken by the FO and McD if you ask me.

We can disagree all day long but there are mistakes being made by both sides. Hopefully the McD camp atleast learns from this offseason......hell hopefull so does Brandon but I would not hold my breath.

[Day1BroncoFan]

I dont think anyone is saying Marshall is not an ass but I still say the coach and front office handled this poorly. They should have been much more proactive with their star players and certainly should not have pushed Marshalls buttons for the sole purpose of getting a response out of him inorder to allow them to suspend him. That is pretty childish actions taken by the FO and McD if you ask me.

We can disagree all day long but there are mistakes being made by both sides. Hopefully the McD camp atleast learns from this offseason......hell hopefull so does Brandon but I would not hold my breath.

How do you know they pushed his buttons, were you there? You know the front office is being childish because you were there right?

[Tempus Fugit]

I dont think anyone is saying Marshall is not an ass but I still say the coach and front office handled this poorly. They should have been much more proactive with their star players and certainly should not have pushed Marshalls buttons for the sole purpose of getting a response out of him inorder to allow them to suspend him. That is pretty childish actions taken by the FO and McD if you ask me.

We can disagree all day long but there are mistakes being made by both sides. Hopefully the McD camp atleast learns from this offseason......hell hopefull so does Brandon but I would not hold my breath.

You're making claims with no evidence. I choose not to do that.

[EastCoastBronco]

No offense, but you know nothing about any level of arrogance or approachability. You simply assume it. It's a bad assumption. The same comment has been made about Pioli and Haley in K.C. and Belichick in New England. Not surprisingly, the players in New England don't claim that Belichick is arrogant, because it's just people on the outside foolishly throwing labels around.

What too many people here have overlooked is that McDaniels is doing what he thinks he has to in order to change the culture in Denver. And, for those who want to claim that the culture in Denver was fine, the crybaby antics of Cutler and Marshall show otherwise. The players will learn to buy into the system, or the players will end up on other teams. That's not arrogance. It's an attempt to avoid becoming the Bengals, Raiders or Cowboys.
Terry Glenn found that out in New England when Belichick suspended him. What's happening in Denver is nothing new.

That's the best post in this thread. Well said.

[Ravage!!!]

If this was somthing that came out of no-where, then we could see how come this wasn't taken care of long ego. My problem is that his is the second player, and this particular problem has been going on for MONTHS now. How is it our FO continues to let these problems escalate and build momentum rather than finding a way to simply get it taken care of, and diffuse the situation??

Is this a shock to anyone? Is anyone surprised that Marshall is suspended from the games/team/ pre-season games?? I'm not... BECAUSE everyone saw this coming months ago. Either the coaching staff saw this coming and chose not to fix it/work at it/find a solution.... or they didn't WANT to fix it.

[Dortoh]

You're making claims with no evidence. I choose not to do that.

You really dont think that shipping his ass off to play ST's would not be pushing an ego driven NFL player like Brandon to snap. They knew exactly what they were doing.

[Day1BroncoFan]

If this was somthing that came out of no-where, then we could see how come this wasn't taken care of long ego. My problem is that his is the second player, and this particular problem has been going on for MONTHS now. How is it our FO continues to let these problems escalate and build momentum rather than finding a way to simply get it taken care of, and diffuse the situation??

Is this a shock to anyone? Is anyone surprised that Marshall is suspended from the games/team/ pre-season games?? I'm not... BECAUSE everyone saw this coming months ago. Either the coaching staff saw this coming and chose not to fix it/work at it/find a solution.... or they didn't WANT to fix it.

So you knew Marshall would get suspended months ago.

Wow you're so smart. :rolleyes:

[sneakers]

what a weiner

[Tempus Fugit]

You really dont think that shipping his ass off to play ST's would not be pushing an ego driven NFL player like Brandon to snap. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Really? And yet Mr. Bowe of the Chiefs was demoted to 3rd string and has yet to end up in the same predicament.



Strange...............

[Tempus Fugit]

If this was somthing that came out of no-where, then we could see how come this wasn't taken care of long ego. My problem is that his is the second player, and this particular problem has been going on for MONTHS now. How is it our FO continues to let these problems escalate and build momentum rather than finding a way to simply get it taken care of, and diffuse the situation??

Is this a shock to anyone? Is anyone surprised that Marshall is suspended from the games/team/ pre-season games?? I'm not... BECAUSE everyone saw this coming months ago. Either the coaching staff saw this coming and chose not to fix it/work at it/find a solution.... or they didn't WANT to fix it.

Could you please provide links to all your posts where you pointed out that Marshall would be suspended from the games/team/ pre-season games?

[Dortoh]

Really? And yet Mr. Bowe of the Chiefs was demoted to 3rd string and has yet to end up in the same predicament.



Strange...............


Not strange at all. EVERYONE knows Marshall has an explosive personality.

[drewloc]

If this was somthing that came out of no-where, then we could see how come this wasn't taken care of long ego. My problem is that his is the second player, and this particular problem has been going on for MONTHS now. How is it our FO continues to let these problems escalate and build momentum rather than finding a way to simply get it taken care of, and diffuse the situation??

Is this a shock to anyone? Is anyone surprised that Marshall is suspended from the games/team/ pre-season games?? I'm not... BECAUSE everyone saw this coming months ago. Either the coaching staff saw this coming and chose not to fix it/work at it/find a solution.... or they didn't WANT to fix it.

Isn't it also possible that they did confront BMarsh and he just decided to not listen? This wouldn't surprise me either, but the bottom line is none of us know what conversations happened, and what didn't. It's all just speculation at this point.

[outdoor_miner]

If this was somthing that came out of no-where, then we could see how come this wasn't taken care of long ego. My problem is that his is the second player, and this particular problem has been going on for MONTHS now. How is it our FO continues to let these problems escalate and build momentum rather than finding a way to simply get it taken care of, and diffuse the situation??

Is this a shock to anyone? Is anyone surprised that Marshall is suspended from the games/team/ pre-season games?? I'm not... BECAUSE everyone saw this coming months ago. Either the coaching staff saw this coming and chose not to fix it/work at it/find a solution.... or they didn't WANT to fix it.

In my opinion, you are ignoring what the real problem is, and it can't just be "fixed": Marshall thinks he is vastly underpaid.

From Marshall's standpoint, there are only 2 fixes. Give him a raise or trade him. I'm not sure what other "fixes" you think exist...

[Tempus Fugit]

Not strange at all. EVERYONE knows Marshall has an explosive personality.

Ahh.... I see.

So what Denver needed to do was just not get Marshall angry, by just letting him get his way. Perhaps they could have asked to borrow Mr. Peabody's WABAC machine to go back and correct the medical issue, for example? That's what a good front office would have done?

[Dortoh]

Ahh.... I see.

So what Denver needed to do was just not get Marshall angry, by just letting him get his way. Perhaps they could have asked to borrow Mr. Peabody's WABAC machine to go back and correct the medical issue, for example? That's what a good front office would have done?

This is obviously a waste of our time.

I guess if you have not seen it on the eSpin it could not have possible happened.

[CoachChaz]

Isn't it also possible that they did confront BMarsh and he just decided to not listen? This wouldn't surprise me either, but the bottom line is none of us know what conversations happened, and what didn't. It's all just speculation at this point.

The fact that they warned him about his practice antics before Wednesday and he still blew them off and acted worse supports this theory

[CoachChaz]

Not strange at all. EVERYONE knows Marshall has an explosive personality.

So they should have put the kid gloves on and treated him defferently from everyone else?

[Tempus Fugit]

This is obviously a waste of our time.

I guess if you have not seen it on the eSpin it could not have possible happened.

No, but it's "possible" that green aliens from the planet Zurax 4 came down and took over the brains of every human on the planet for their amusement. I simply refuse to give credence to speculation when there are already facts in evidence.

[Dortoh]

So they should have put the kid gloves on and treated him defferently from everyone else?

It happens every single day in all walks of life but even more so in professional sports

And please dont anyone tell me "how do you know were you there blah blah blah" :lol:

[Tempus Fugit]

So they should have put the kid gloves on and treated him defferently from everyone else?

Yes, they should have given him milk and cookies, paid him 30 million dollars a year, and made him the head of player personnel. That would have placated him, and I'm sure it wouldn't have had any negative repercussions on any other player.

[Dortoh]

No, but it's "possible" that green aliens from the planet Zurax 4 came down and took over the brains of every human on the planet for their amusement. I simply refuse to give credence to speculation when there are already facts in evidence.

You are correct I doubt McD and Bowlen will ever come out in the media and support my claims of button pushing. :laugh:

[Tempus Fugit]

It happens every single day in all walks of life but even more so in professional sports

And please dont anyone tell me "how do you know were you there blah blah blah" :lol:

Welcome to the world of accountability.

[Tempus Fugit]

You are correct I doubt McD and Bowlen will ever come out in the media and support my claims of button pushing. :laugh:

Ok, at this point, I have to assume that you're not serious about any of this. It's the only way that your posts make any sense.

[Dortoh]

Yes, they should have given him milk and cookies, paid him 30 million dollars a year, and made him the head of player personnel. That would have placated him, and I'm sure it wouldn't have had any negative repercussions on any other player.

where did anyone actually call for that. :rolleyes:

I thought you only went with proven facts

[Tempus Fugit]

where did anyone actually call for that. :rolleyes:

I thought you only went with proven facts

Good point. My clearly sarcastic post was all about reality.


Come on, now.

[Ravage!!!]

Could you please provide links to all your posts where you pointed out that Marshall would be suspended from the games/team/ pre-season games?

what?? The team has already stated he's suspended from the pre-season games.. thus he's suspended from the team (during those games)... games was just a general reference. What is it you are looking for exactly?

[Dortoh]

Ok, at this point, I have to assume that you're not serious about any of this. It's the only way that your posts make any sense.

We will never agree as I prefer to think that there is more going on in the world and our front office then what makes it into the print media. If you only believe what you are told then more power to you.

[Day1BroncoFan]

We will never agree as I prefer to think that there is more going on in the world and our front office then what makes it into the print media. If you only believe what you are told then more power to you.

Believing and stating it as if it's fact are not the same.

When you can tell me you were there and witnessed it you can state it as fact.

[CoachChaz]

It happens every single day in all walks of life but even more so in professional sports

And please dont anyone tell me "how do you know were you there blah blah blah" :lol:

I'm just going to make this my sig so I dont have to type it 100 times a day.


"I dont know all the details about what happens behind closed doors in the FO because I'm not there. NONE OF US ARE. Therefore, we are left with what we can see.

Scenario one...a player demands a trade, refuses to talk to management. Front Office says all the right things

Scenario two...player demands more money, acts like a child. Front Office says all the right things.


That info is ALL that ANY of us have to go on. Anything else is speculation

[Ravage!!!]

Isn't it also possible that they did confront BMarsh and he just decided to not listen? This wouldn't surprise me either, but the bottom line is none of us know what conversations happened, and what didn't. It's all just speculation at this point.

But we do know that they didn't sit down and get things hashed out, one way or the other... right? Sure we can say that Bmarsh idn't want to listen, and thats a possibility... absolutely.

I'm not here saying everything is on McDaniels shoulders. I'm saying that its odd that in this ONE offseason, the times wehre McDaniels could have... should have.... been able to diffuse and settle conflict btween he and his players, he's been unable to. To the point of them wanting to be traded.

Now I know we can turn around and call both these players "babies" and whatever other name is popular on the boards, and assume that neither of them wanted to resolve the issues, and both just wanted to continue to escalate the problem. But I think we would also have to acknowledge that McDaniels might very well have some problems getting these issues resolved, and has a pattern of somehow (and I'm not saying ) of letting the problem progress and get worse without making it better.

Lets face it. McDaniels is a 32 year old coach with NOOOO HC Experience. If we don't think that takes learning, and he's going to come in here making no mistakes simply because he was the OC in NE, we are fooling ourselves. Those there that believe there is NO WAAY McDaniels has any blame in these TWO situtions, are closing their eyes an giving him a pass.

[Ravage!!!]

Scenario one...a player demands a trade, refuses to talk to management. Front Office says all the right things

Scenario two...player demands more money, acts like a child. Front Office says all the right things.


That info is ALL that ANY of us have to go on. Anything else is speculation

THese two scenarios are the facts???? :shocked:

[Tempus Fugit]

what?? The team has already stated he's suspended from the pre-season games.. thus he's suspended from the team (during those games)... games was just a general reference. What is it you are looking for exactly?


BECAUSE everyone saw this coming months ago. Either the coaching staff saw this coming and chose not to fix it/work at it/find a solution.... or they didn't WANT to fix it.

You say everyone saw this coming. I'd like to see your posts showing that you saw it coming.

[Ravage!!!]

In my opinion, you are ignoring what the real problem is, and it can't just be "fixed": Marshall thinks he is vastly underpaid.

From Marshall's standpoint, there are only 2 fixes. Give him a raise or trade him. I'm not sure what other "fixes" you think exist...

I see your point, but there is never just a black-n-white problem. THere are RARELY just the simple A or B solutions. There are compromises. There are other solutions that can satisfy both parties without each 'giving in.'

This is what you see coaches and GMs do all the time in the NFL. So I find it hard to believe that these were the ONLY two solutions to the problem that would have kept this from growing over the last few months.

Now I do say that with the understanding that it IS a possibility that there was no other solutions..... but I would think that would be EXTREMELY rare, and for it to happen twice in one offseason with two star, stud, players..... then thats where My belief in that there seems to be a communication problem stems.

[CoachChaz]

THese two scenarios are the facts???? :shocked:

It's what we've seen. Call me crazy, but when i see something in front of me... my propensity to believe it is alot higher. I saw Brandon act stupid...that's a fact. I heard Cutler ask for a trade...that's a fact. I also heard the team say all the PC things in respone...that's a fact.

My point is that anything beyond all that is speculation and NONE of us can do anything but form our own OPINIONS about them. it could turn out McD is at fault for all of it or it could be all on the players shoulders. Until I know more, I can only form conclusions based on the facts I have

[T.K.O.]

the funny thing is there are haters out there that are gonna try to spin this into mcdaniels fault ! hahahahaha:D

[CoachChaz]

I see your point, but there is never just a black-n-white problem. THere are RARELY just the simple A or B solutions. There are compromises. There are other solutions that can satisfy both parties without each 'giving in.'

This is what you see coaches and GMs do all the time in the NFL. So I find it hard to believe that these were the ONLY two solutions to the problem that would have kept this from growing over the last few months.

Now I do say that with the understanding that it IS a possibility that there was no other solutions..... but I would think that would be EXTREMELY rare, and for it to happen twice in one offseason with two star, stud, players..... then thats where My belief in that there seems to be a communication problem stems.

As You stated very well...there is just too much to these scenarios for us to be able to form a stable conclusion.

Things do seem a little too coincidental. That doesnt mean they arent

[Dortoh]

Believing and stating it as if it's fact are not the same.

When you can tell me you were there and witnessed it you can state it as fact.

Nobody should be posting in this or most other threads then.

[Dortoh]

I thought McSheepeople was kinda funny myself :lol:

[claymore]

It's what we've seen. Call me crazy, but when i see something in front of me... my propensity to believe it is alot higher. I saw Brandon act stupid...that's a fact. I heard Cutler ask for a trade...that's a fact. I also heard the team say all the PC things in respone...that's a fact.

My point is that anything beyond all that is speculation and NONE of us can do anything but form our own OPINIONS about them. it could turn out McD is at fault for all of it or it could be all on the players shoulders. Until I know more, I can only form conclusions based on the facts I have

Cutler also said he didnt ask for a trade. thats a fact. He said he was packing his stuff up to come to Denver when he found out about the trade. Fact

JMCD has... Traded Cutler, traded a number one for a number two, and let Marshalls value get so low, we may not ever get any compensation for him.

Those are fact's as well.

[MOtorboat]

Cutler also said he didnt ask for a trade. thats a fact. He said he was packing his stuff up to come to Denver when he found out about the trade. Fact

JMCD has... Traded Cutler, traded a number one for a number two, and let Marshalls value get so low, we may not ever get any compensation for him.

Those are fact's as well.

Marshall got Marshall's value low.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Nobody should be posting in this or most other threads then.

Try posting your opinion as an opinion and not as fact. ;)

That's what I do. That and I don't blame everthing on somebody based on what I think might have happened when I really have no clue.

Try starting your post with something like "IMHO McD is at fault", instead of "McD is an idiot for the way he handled this". (I don't know if you said that or not it's just an example).

When you state things like you know they're true and you have no clue you lose credibility in my book but maybe you don't care.

[claymore]

the funny thing is there are haters out there that are gonna try to spin this into mcdaniels fault ! hahahahaha:D

I fault McDaniel for letting this happen.

[CoachChaz]

I fault McDaniel for letting this happen.

He's a *****

[claymore]

Marshall got Marshall's value low.

Yes he did. But, MCD should have seen this coming.

[Tempus Fugit]

Cutler also said he didnt ask for a trade. thats a fact. He said he was packing his stuff up to come to Denver when he found out about the trade. Fact

JMCD has... Traded Cutler, traded a number one for a number two, and let Marshalls value get so low, we may not ever get any compensation for him.

Those are fact's as well.

Cutler's agent issued a formal trade request:


Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler has formally asked to be traded, a request he made Sunday through his agent, Bus Cook.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11919325


Cook has formally requested a trade on Cutler's behalf, but contrary to reports, he says he didn't immediately demand that his client be traded.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3995461

[Tempus Fugit]

Also, for the person who chastised me for noting that Cutler was butthurt before McDaniels arrived on scene:


Bus Cook told the Web site that Cutler met with Broncos owner Pat Bowlen shortly after Shanahan was fired on Dec. 30 to express his concerns.

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner. The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff," Cook told NFL.com.

New Broncos coach Josh McDaniels overhauled the offensive staff after his arrival.

Cutler told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen on Sunday that the departure of offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates in particular didn't sit well with him.

"Yes, I was upset when they let Jeremy go because Mr. Bowlen had assured me when Mike [Shanahan] was fired that the offense wouldn't change because it was the second-ranked offense in football," Cutler said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3995461

[T.K.O.]

I fault McDaniel for letting this happen.

i knew you would....but its still funny!:laugh:
i'd like to see you take over for an 8-8 team with its top 2 players acting like little bytches and do better.....
mcd inherited a mess and has to deal with crybabies on the team and in the stands:salute:

[claymore]

Cutler's agent issued a formal trade request:



http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11919325



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3995461
Yep, thats pretty much been said.

Also, for the person who chastised me for noting that Cutler was butthurt before McDaniels arrived on scene:



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3995461

I would clasifiy it as a legitimate concern, not being Butt hurt. So far Cutler has been right.

If you are trying to say Bowlen needs to be chastised more, than I agree.

[claymore]

i knew you would....but its still funny!:laugh:
i'd like to see you take over for an 8-8 team with its top 2 players acting like little bytches and do better.....
mcd inherited a mess and has to deal with crybabies on the team and in the stands:salute:

We didnt have these issues till JMCD got here.

[Tempus Fugit]

Yep, thats pretty much been said.


I would clasifiy it as a legitimate concern, not being Butt hurt. So far Cutler has been right.

If you are trying to say Bowlen needs to be chastised more, than I agree.

Cutler was butthurt, and he hasn't been right. More importantly, the fans who've been bashing McDaniels have been wrong about pretty much everything.

[CoachChaz]

We didnt have these issues till JMCD got here.

...or we didnt know about them

[outdoor_miner]

I see your point, but there is never just a black-n-white problem. THere are RARELY just the simple A or B solutions. There are compromises. There are other solutions that can satisfy both parties without each 'giving in.'

This is what you see coaches and GMs do all the time in the NFL. So I find it hard to believe that these were the ONLY two solutions to the problem that would have kept this from growing over the last few months.

Now I do say that with the understanding that it IS a possibility that there was no other solutions..... but I would think that would be EXTREMELY rare, and for it to happen twice in one offseason with two star, stud, players..... then thats where My belief in that there seems to be a communication problem stems.

Well - Cutler and Marshall are two very different situations in my opinion. I actually agree with you on Cutler... Communication was clearly a problem. I don't know if it was because McDaniels and the Broncos weren't communicating, or if it was because Cutler and Cook weren't listerning. To me, that situation is/was super complicated, and there were a lot of possible endings and "grey areas"... Looking back - I still can't comprehend why it went as far as it did. I don't know who is to blame. It seems to me like Bus Cook tried to take advantage of an inexperienced Front Office (and in my opinion, their inexperience did shine through in that whole ordeal), and Pat Bowlen ultimately had enough and ended it. That's just my opinion, though.

For this current one with Marshall - I think we see these things all the time in the NFL. If Jay Cutler had not been traded, and this was happening with Marshall, no one would be spinning this as out of the ordinary. Players want more money. Teams don't want to give it (or at least, don't want to give as much as the players want). Players become unhappy when they the teams say "no". It's the nature of the business.

So, what we have now is a standard conflict (with the added bonus of Marshall being a head case). I don't really see the grey area in this one. I don't know what can be done besides giving him more money (a tremendous risk for a guy like Marshall) or trading him (when his value is at it's lowest). No amount of talking will fix a money problem.

I will admit - it is extremely unusual for a team to go through this kind of drama with 2 of their best players in a single offseason. That is hard to ignore. But, looking at this Marshall situation, I'm not sure how much grey area there is.

[claymore]

Cutler was butthurt, and he hasn't been right. More importantly, the fans who've been bashing McDaniels have been wrong about pretty much everything.
Thats your opinion. The good news is we will have a shed of proof either way Sunday night. And a full body of truth at the end of the season.

[claymore]

...or we didnt know about them

Yes Hypothetically Jay and Brandon were real problems before JMCD got here.

[CoachChaz]

Thats your opinion. The good news is we will have a shed of proof either way Sunday night. And a full body of truth at the end of the season.

One game? One season?

[drewloc]

But we do know that they didn't sit down and get things hashed out, one way or the other... right? Sure we can say that Bmarsh idn't want to listen, and thats a possibility... absolutely.

I'm not here saying everything is on McDaniels shoulders. I'm saying that its odd that in this ONE offseason, the times wehre McDaniels could have... should have.... been able to diffuse and settle conflict btween he and his players, he's been unable to. To the point of them wanting to be traded.

Now I know we can turn around and call both these players "babies" and whatever other name is popular on the boards, and assume that neither of them wanted to resolve the issues, and both just wanted to continue to escalate the problem. But I think we would also have to acknowledge that McDaniels might very well have some problems getting these issues resolved, and has a pattern of somehow (and I'm not saying ) of letting the problem progress and get worse without making it better.

Lets face it. McDaniels is a 32 year old coach with NOOOO HC Experience. If we don't think that takes learning, and he's going to come in here making no mistakes simply because he was the OC in NE, we are fooling ourselves. Those there that believe there is NO WAAY McDaniels has any blame in these TWO situtions, are closing their eyes an giving him a pass.

I agree that both sides have to work at it, I was just throwing out another possibility. I think that there is some blame on both sides with everything, but that said, you still need to act like a professional when you are considered one. Could it be handled differently? Sure, anything could, I still think that given the current circumstances, a suspension was in order.

[claymore]

One game? One season?

Hell yes. He inherited an 8-8 team, one year of retooling should take us to 9-8.

The first couple of QTR's on Sun should be a sign of things to come. for better or worse.

[T.K.O.]

so if the broncos suck and mcD fails it will be......good news?
:tsk:

[Tempus Fugit]

Thats your opinion. The good news is we will have a shed of proof either way Sunday night. And a full body of truth at the end of the season.

It's not my opinion. It's Bus Cook's comments:


Bus Cook told the Web site that Cutler met with Broncos owner Pat Bowlen shortly after Shanahan was fired on Dec. 30 to express his concerns.

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner.

Again, that's even before McDaniels was hired. You keep claiming speculation as fact and fact as opinion. Now, notice the stated reason for being "upset" in this next item:


New Broncos coach Josh McDaniels overhauled the offensive staff after his arrival.

Cutler told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen on Sunday that the departure of offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates in particular didn't sit well with him.

"Yes, I was upset when they let Jeremy go because Mr. Bowlen had assured me when Mike [Shanahan] was fired that the offense wouldn't change because it was the second-ranked offense in football," Cutler said.

Again, the 'assurance' that Cutler said he got (denied by Bowlen, by the way) was given before McDaniels even arrived.

[T.K.O.]

Hell yes. He inherited an 8-8 team, one year of retooling should take us to 9-8.

The first couple of QTR's on Sun should be a sign of things to come. for better or worse.

so if it only takes one preseason and a few games to improve the team to 9-8(there are only 16 reg season games though)then why have we been going backwards under the coaching of shannahan with the greatest qb and wr ever?
why did shanny get 10 yrs but mcd only gets one shot and it better start sunday?
sounds like someone needs a reality check,many teams go decades without a playoff win.
and your saying a 1st year hc installing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball has a few months until he should be fired and made ballboy or something.....total B.S.:tsk:

[claymore]

so if the broncos suck and mcD fails it will be......good news?
:tsk:No, It will be terrible news. I hope more than anyone I am wrong.


It's not my opinion. It's Bus Cook's comments:



Again, that's even before McDaniels was hired. You keep claiming speculation as fact and fact as opinion. Now, notice the stated reason for being "upset" in this next item:



Again, the 'assurance' that Cutler said he got (denied by Bowlen, by the way) was given before McDaniels even arrived.
Its your opinion that he was butthurt. I think it was a valid concern.

And...

We all know Bowlen Is senile, or a drunk, or both. His word is no good any longer because he cannot remember what he says.

[Ravage!!!]

It's what we've seen. Call me crazy, but when i see something in front of me... my propensity to believe it is alot higher. I saw Brandon act stupid...that's a fact. I heard Cutler ask for a trade...that's a fact. I also heard the team say all the PC things in respone...that's a fact.

My point is that anything beyond all that is speculation and NONE of us can do anything but form our own OPINIONS about them. it could turn out McD is at fault for all of it or it could be all on the players shoulders. Until I know more, I can only form conclusions based on the facts I have

SO your "perceptions" are facts, and what other people see and 'believe'... are purely speculations. Gotcha

[claymore]

so if it only takes one preseason and a few games to improve the team to 9-8(there are only 16 reg season games though)then why have we been going backwards under the coaching of shannahan with the greatest qb and wr ever?
why did shanny get 10 yrs but mcd only gets one shot and it better start sunday?
sounds like someone needs a reality check,many teams go decades without a playoff win.
and your saying a 1st year hc installing a whole new scheme on both sides of the ball has a few months until he should be fired and made ballboy or something.....total B.S.:tsk:

Never said that. I said he was hired to win. Not lose. He wasnt hired to lose more games. 9-7 or better.

I dont put those 8 loses last year on Cutler. Nor the year before. I think our defense and ST's had a hand in that.

[Ravage!!!]

Cutler was butthurt, and he hasn't been right. More importantly, the fans who've been bashing McDaniels have been wrong about pretty much everything.

THere we go... bringing out all the TRUE facts to the surface and bypassing all that bias posting stuff :beer:

[honz]

I liked Clay a lot better before he became Negative Nancy. :smh:

[Asian Sushi 7]

father said everyting starts at top.

now all marshal good for is rotten bag of fish and maybe fist of rwice.

[Ravage!!!]

I agree that both sides have to work at it, I was just throwing out another possibility. I think that there is some blame on both sides with everything, but that said, you still need to act like a professional when you are considered one. Could it be handled differently? Sure, anything could, I still think that given the current circumstances, a suspension was in order.

I actually agree. Marshall's attitude on the practice field was completely and totally out of line, and obviously done to get a reaction. Well, he got one!

But the suspension itself, is not what I personally have a problem with. I have a problem with knowing that our organization, our coach, has now had TWO disgruntled employees and BOTH of those situations have continued to escalate to the point of one being traded away (when he absolutely should NOT have been traded away) and now the one with Marshall to where he is having to threaten with suspensions and/or fines to get him on the field.

Im truly not justifying Marshall's actions on the practice field. They were immature at best. But they were signs of a player that is rebelling, and rebelling because he hasn't resolved anything with the same coaches that didn't resolve anything with Jay (and I do believe the Jay situation is having a direct result on both Marshall and McDaniel's reactions/handling of this).

[claymore]

I liked Clay a lot better before he became Negative Nancy. :smh:

If Im wrong, nobody will be happier than me. If Im right, you all will all feel the pain with me. But I will be over it by then, and will try to cheer you guys up. :D

[claymore]

father said everyting starts at top.

now all marshal good for is rotten bag of fish and maybe fist of rwice.

Didnt Bowlen say the buck (yen) stops with him? ko-nee-chee-wah

[Tempus Fugit]

THere we go... bringing out all the TRUE facts to the surface and bypassing all that bias posting stuff :beer:

Indeed. The facts that are out there are ignored by people such as yourself. As a result, your conclusions are almost all incorrect. That's just the reality of the situation. It's not a bias.

As for Butthurt, it's an expression. Cook noted Cutler's 'disappointment'. Even he didn't try claiming it was "a valid concern". That's left for the likes of Claymore. You may not like the characterization of "butthurt", but the idea behind it is correct and verified by Cutler's agent.

As much as I'd love to continue with this death spiral of a conversation, I've to to head out for a bit. Enjoy your afternoon.

[Asian Sushi 7]

Didnt Bowlen say the buck (yen) stops with him? ko-nee-chee-wah

when relaize you have carp on line, cut line, before carp gets on boat and ruins day for all.

our carp now on our boat.

[claymore]

Indeed. The facts that are out there are ignored by people such as yourself. As a result, your conclusions are almost all incorrect. That's just the reality of the situation. It's not a bias.

As for Butthurt, it's an expression. Cook noted Cutler's 'disappointment'. Even he didn't try claiming it was "a valid concern". That's left for the likes of Claymore. You may not like the characterization of "butthurt", but the idea behind it is correct and verified by Cutler's agent.

As much as I'd love to continue with this death spiral of a conversation, I've to to head out for a bit. Enjoy your afternoon.

You take clips of conversations twist it to your liking and call it a fact. Cutlers comments meant something completley different to me. Dont get "butt hurt" because people dont agree with your "facts".

[Dortoh]

Try posting your opinion as an opinion and not as fact. ;)

That's what I do. That and I don't blame everthing on somebody based on what I think might have happened when I really have no clue.

Try starting your post with something like "IMHO McD is at fault", instead of "McD is an idiot for the way he handled this". (I don't know if you said that or not it's just an example).

When you state things like you know they're true and you have no clue you lose credibility in my book but maybe you don't care.

Lose credibility for stating my opinon on the situation. Now you've just jumped off the deep end.

How about this IMO I rock and everyone else sucks :laugh:

[Ravage!!!]

...

For this current one with Marshall - I think we see these things all the time in the NFL. If Jay Cutler had not been traded, and this was happening with Marshall, no one would be spinning this as out of the ordinary. Players want more money. Teams don't want to give it (or at least, don't want to give as much as the players want). Players become unhappy when they the teams say "no". It's the nature of the business.

Absolutely right. The Cutler debacle has made this one that much worse, and as I said before, I don't believe for a moment that the trade hasn't effected both McDaniel's and Marshall's decisions/choices. McDaniels felt the heat after that trade, of course he did. I know in my heart that he knows that was a 'career changing' mess-up. One that will continue to follow him around for the rest of his coaching life. That being said, that absolutely must come into thought when dealing with Marshall.

But at the same time... I wish he would have learned somewhere from that, there needs to be a time when the coach GOES to the player and gets things settled. Does what it takes to just get it done. If that means stroking an ego for a bit while you chat with him, fine... do it. But do it to get it done and over with rather than letting this continue to grow.


So, what we have now is a standard conflict (with the added bonus of Marshall being a head case). I don't really see the grey area in this one. I don't know what can be done besides giving him more money (a tremendous risk for a guy like Marshall) or trading him (when his value is at it's lowest). No amount of talking will fix a money problem.

Who knows? Maybe something as simply establishing an easy to reach production bonus??? Something that would have given him reason to get ON the field, produce, stay out of trouble and STILL be able to get more money this season?? Then, an understanding that if he DID hit that bonus, the new contract will be their priority. I don't know, but I feel there is always something.

[topscribe]

Lose credibility for stating my opinon on the situation. Now you've just jumped off the deep end.

How about this IMO I rock and everyone else sucks :laugh:

You're my hero, Hotrod. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/throckon.gif

-----

[Dortoh]

You're my hero, Hotrod. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/throckon.gif

-----

Well its a fact because my mommy told me so :beer:

I need a beer and a hooker after this mess today :listen:

[OrangeHoof]

Really? They baited him by punishing him for holding out and acting like a child? I don't exactly agree with the suspension, but you are smoking some damn fine crack with this one Hotrod. Could you send some this way?


I agree with him. Cutler set the bar for how to push the Broncos into a trade. Marshall is just following the same path, with his own little twist. I was shocked the Bears gave up so much to get the "insolent, whiny, immature" QB but I don't doubt teams will also vie to get the "insolent, whiny, immature" WR although at a lesser price.

What Marshall is doing is forcing the issue. He thought he was promised a trade this summer and, now that it seems clear the Broncos weren't going to oblige, he's forcing the issue by making himself useless to the Broncos.

He'll get traded alright, and it will happen by Week 4.

[skycoyote]

when relaize you have carp on line, cut line, before carp gets on boat and ruins day for all.

our carp now on our boat.

Carp got in boat on January 11th, 2009.

[NightTrainLayne]

Carp got in boat on January 11th, 2009.

I'm pretty sure that's what AS7 was referring to.

[Thnikkaman]

father said everyting starts at top.

now all marshal good for is rotten bag of fish and maybe fist of rwice.

You got those pictures you promised me? ;)

[Day1BroncoFan]

You got those pictures you promised me? ;)

Pictures of Marshall being suspended?

[Asian Sushi 7]

I'm pretty sure that's what AS7 was referring to.

New Head fish on line unknown.

Carp onboat been with police 14 times soon. We know he carp way long ago.

[BroncoTech]

Running Bear says:
Marshall build big camp fire, stand far away.
Royal build small fire, sit real close.

[topscribe]

Running Bear says:
Marshall build big camp fire, stand far away.
Royal build small fire, sit real close.

Top stay home . . . roast wienies over gas grill . . . :D

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[Tempus Fugit]

You take clips of conversations twist it to your liking and call it a fact. Cutlers comments meant something completley different to me. Dont get "butt hurt" because people dont agree with your "facts".

You disagreeing with me doesn't make me butthurt. Frankly, watching people such as yourself ignore reality rather than admit that you were wrong is something that makes me giggle like a child. Now, regarding my post:

The first comment was Cook's comment, and he was the one who used 'disappointed'.

The second comment, which was about an action that occured after McDaniels arrived, and was regarding an assurance supposedly given BEFORE McDaniels arrived, was Cutler saying "Yes, I was upset when they let Jeremy go because Mr. Bowlen had assured me when Mike [Shanahan] was fired that the offense wouldn't change because it was the second-ranked offense in football".

Sorry, that's butthurt.

[Tempus Fugit]

I don't know the source of this message enough to know how seriously to take this, but here's something for you:


This quote from Daniel Graham sums up player sentiment: "[Brandon] brought this on himself." That is coming from an offensive captain.

http://twitter.com/denverbroncos/status/3611221843

[Tempus Fugit]

From Gazettebroncos.com:


Stokley said the team wouldn't let it be a distraction, but admitted that it offended him to have a teammate act like Marshall did in practice.

"It does, because we're all trying to win games and you can't have that," Stokley said. "You can't have those distractions and you can't have somebody acting like that. We're all out here working hard, trying to win games, and we want him to be a part of that."

Tight end Daniel Graham found Marshall's actions unbecoming as well.

"It's offensive a little bit," Graham said. "Everybody is out here working hard towards our ultimate goal. To have a teammate like that do what he's doing right now is disappointing to the rest of the guys. But we're still focused on what our goal is."

Stokley said he hoped Marshall will come back refocused.

"Maybe the light bulb will go off and he'll come out and be ready to play some football and help us win games," Stokley said.

http://gazettebroncos.freedomblogging.com/2009/08/28/not-much-support-for-marshall-among-players/1217/

[Ravage!!!]

You disagreeing with me doesn't make me butthurt. Frankly, watching people such as yourself ignore reality rather than admit that you were wrong is something that makes me giggle like a child. Now, regarding my post:

The first comment was Cook's comment, and he was the one who used 'disappointed'.

The second comment, which was about an action that occured after McDaniels arrived, and was regarding an assurance supposedly given BEFORE McDaniels arrived, was Cutler saying "Yes, I was upset when they let Jeremy go because Mr. Bowlen had assured me when Mike [Shanahan] was fired that the offense wouldn't change because it was the second-ranked offense in football".

Sorry, that's butthurt.

Thats butthurt???!?!?!?!?! :shocked: :lol:

[Dortoh]

I don't know the source of this message enough to know how seriously to take this, but here's something for you:



http://twitter.com/denverbroncos/status/3611221843

I think what we have here is a difference in personality types. Your more anal then me not that there is anything wrong with that.

I also think you think we are pinning all this on McD. In my case that is simply not so. I do however think that he made some errors in judgement and rookie HC mistakes.

[Ravage!!!]

I think what we have here is a difference in personality types. Your more anal then me not that there is anything wrong with that.

I also think you think we are pinning all this on McD. In my case that is simply not so. I do however think that he made some errors in judgement and rookie HC mistakes.

Ohhh.... points for using a Seinfeld reference! :beer:

[Dortoh]

Ohhh.... points for using a Seinfeld reference! :beer:

God I wasted alot of time watching that show :laugh:

[Ravage!!!]

God I wasted alot of time watching that show :laugh:

Ditto on that :laugh:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I don't know the source of this message enough to know how seriously to take this, but here's something for you:



http://twitter.com/denverbroncos/status/3611221843

Lindsey Jones is the source - she is a sports writer for the Denver Post.

From the following, it is DEFINITELY clear that Brandon does NOT respect authority - neither on or off the field.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13222721

McDaniels said he had warned Marshall about his behavior in practice and drills before Wednesday's practice, but saw no progress, so felt a suspension was warranted.

"He was given a warning this Wednesday about his conduct being detrimental to the club and his actions didn't really change after that warning."

[The Glue Factory]

I also think we are pinning all this on McD. In my case that is simply not so. I do however think that he made some errors in judgement and rookie HC mistakes.



I see Marshall's type of behavior all the time, in my 8 yr old daughter. I warn her not to act in a selfish way to get what she wants when she's been told no. And she keeps going. I slap her wrist and her behavior gets worse. I swat her butt and it gets even worse. It keeps escalating until she takes it to the limit and she's grounded in her room (not just the house) with nothing to do but read books. And then she cries for a second chance to get it right when she's already blown her previous five chances. Is my daughter's behavior resulting from my rookie dad mistakes? Not a chance. Nor is McDaniels mistakes any cause for Marshall's piss poor behavior.

It's a horrendous commentary about Marshall that he's acting like a spoiled little brat. McDaniels caused this? :rofl: :rofl: What else is a coach to do when a player doesn't know the freakin' playbook!? At least McDaniels was giving Marshall a chance to do something to contribute to the team, rather than be a disruption on the field.

All youse guys pinning the Marshall implosion on McDaniels need to put some glasses on cause your myopic hate for our new coach is comedic. Having compassion for Marshall will only get more of the same. The only way to deal with spoiled behavior like Marshall's is to hold him to a standard, reward the hard work and punish the selfish, spoiled brat. Plain and simple.

[claymore]

I see Marshall's type of behavior all the time, in my 8 yr old daughter. I warn her not to act in a selfish way to get what she wants when she's been told no. And she keeps going. I slap her wrist and her behavior gets worse. I swat her butt and it gets even worse. It keeps escalating until she takes it to the limit and she's grounded in her room (not just the house) with nothing to do but read books. And then she cries for a second chance to get it right when she's already blown her previous five chances. Is my daughter's behavior resulting from my rookie dad mistakes? Not a chance. Nor is McDaniels mistakes any cause for Marshall's piss poor behavior.

It's a horrendous commentary about Marshall that he's acting like a spoiled little brat. McDaniels caused this? :rofl: :rofl: What else is a coach to do when a player doesn't know the freakin' playbook!? At least McDaniels was giving Marshall a chance to do something to contribute to the team, rather than be a disruption on the field.

All youse guys pinning the Marshall implosion on McDaniels need to put some glasses on cause your myopic hate for our new coach is comedic. Having compassion for Marshall will only get more of the same. The only way to deal with spoiled behavior like Marshall's is to hold him to a standard, reward the hard work and punish the selfish, spoiled brat. Plain and simple.

That works until she is 18 and tells you to get bent. Which is the situation Marshall is in. Seriously, all this has done is piss marshall off. Playing hardball with this guy will do nothing but make it worse.

Dont blame me, blame the CBA.

I dont like it that Marshall has the leverage that he does. (Him and his value are more important to the Broncos, Than the Broncos are to him). But, its the way it is.

[Tempus Fugit]

That works until she is 18 and tells you to get bent. Which is the situation Marshall is in. Seriously, all this has done is piss marshall off. Playing hardball with this guy will do nothing but make it worse.

Dont blame me, blame the CBA.

I dont like it that Marshall has the leverage that he does. (Him and his value are more important to the Broncos, Than the Broncos are to him). But, its the way it is.

They let him basically skate through the OTA portion of the offseason. Perhaps you missed that?

P.S. Marshall has no leverage, and he just found that out.

[claymore]

They let him basically skate through the OTA portion of the offseason. Perhaps you missed that?

P.S. Marshall has no leverage, and he just found that out.

LOL. If he had no leverage they would have cut him.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Marshall doesn't have any leverage in this situation at all.

[topscribe]

LOL. If he had no leverage they would have cut him.

If Marshall has no leverage, why would they have to do anything? Fact is, he
doesn't have leverage. They could ruin his career if they got nasty enough
about it. (I don't think they would do it, but they could.) They own him by
contract this year, and next year he is only a RFA. Or they could franchise him
until the cows come home. The Broncos hold alllllll the cards, and how they
deal them will be totally up to them.

-----

[claymore]

Marshall doesn't have any leverage in this situation at all.

Your right. He is basically rich, doesnt want to play with the Broncos, and at least 10 teams will pay him 10 times what the Broncos are the second he is available.

Expect to see Marshall become uber doosh.

[weazel]

the people on here trying to defend Marshall or take his side are same people who still live at home and live off of mom and dad.

Marshall is a complete douchebag, just get rid of this trash and let him self destruct elsewhere. He will not be in the league in a couple seasons from now anyway.

[claymore]

If Marshall has no leverage, why would they have to do anything? Fact is, he
doesn't have leverage. They could ruin his career if they got nasty enough
about it. (I don't think they would do it, but they could.) They own him by
contract this year, and next year he is only a RFA. Or they could franchise him
until the cows come home. The Broncos hold alllllll the cards, and how they
deal them will be totally up to them.

-----

If they could ruin his career, then he wouldnt have leverage. Tell me how they can. So I can be at ease.

Fact is, if it gets to the point that they franchise him, he would have sat on his ass for 2 full seasons, and made a SHIT TON of money! Franchise would be awesome to Brandon. Still doesnt have to play and he gets like 14 Mil!

[Bozo Jr.]

I imagine Marshall, with all his vacation time, will be in jail by October. :cool:

[Tempus Fugit]

LOL. If he had no leverage they would have cut him.

Leverage is not a synonym for value.

[claymore]

the people on here trying to defend Marshall or take his side are same people who still live at home and live off of mom and dad.

Marshall is a complete douchebag, just get rid of this trash and let him self destruct elsewhere. He will not be in the league in a couple seasons from now anyway.

Wishful thinking, and a shot in the dark statement. Marshall will be far richer in a couple years, and we will look like tools in the end.

[claymore]

Leverage is not a synonym for value.

In this case it is. The only way he plays for us is if Orton lights it up. Then he Might come around this year.

[topscribe]

If they could ruin his career, then he wouldnt have leverage.

:confused: Clay, have you been getting enough sleep lately?

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[Requiem / The Dagda]

Top is right on why he has no leverage. The fact that the guy can earn money and not even play is beyond me (I'm not even sure if that is true) but he does himself no favors by pouting and not wanting to participate after his suspension is over. The Broncos own Marshall for quite a few years. Nobody is going to want a receiver who is 28 and hasn't played football in two or three years (like you say by sitting out) and acted like he had.