Dwight Freeney's demands complicate negotiations

[aulaza]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000154120/article/dwight-freeneys-demands-complicate-broncos-deal

Deal may not be done until training camp, as Freeney is asking for $6 million per year (per Michelle Biesner).

Abraham apparently out of the mix.

When will these ageing pass rushers understand what they are worth??

[LawDog]

Tom Condon making no new friends in Denver.

[Northman]

Lmao! This is a riot.

[Ravage!!!]

Damn. If only we had a pass rusher on the roster we could have signed..... damn.

[Nomad]

Curious as to why Abraham is out of the mix.

[LawDog]

Two years of paying Ferrari money for a Corvette, now Freeney wants Porsche money for a lease-return Camaro.

[Nomad]

Two years of paying Ferrari money for a Corvette, now Freeney wants Porsche money for a lease-return Camaro.

So what cha got against Chevy's:lol:

[BroncoWave]

If Freeney thinks he is getting 6 mil a year he is dumber than Elvis. Too bad all the FA DEs on the market as of late seem to be effing morons.

[Northman]

Well, im sure Freeney's 5 sacks and 10 tackles in 14 games will come in real handy this year.

[LawDog]

So what cha got against Chevy's:lol:

Vette's and Camaro's are great cars, but you don't need to overpay.

[Ravage!!!]

Well, im sure Freeney's 5 sacks and 10 tackles in 14 games will come in real handy this year.

well.. combine that with Ayers 3 sacks....and that's getting closer.

[Nomad]

Vette's and Camaro's are great cars, but you don't need to overpay.

My father-in-law wrecked his Vette while I was a passenger on 405 in Bellevue Wa some yrs ago, I will not ride with him again.

BTW, I was just kidding around. I'm far from a gear head.

[BroncoWave]

well.. combine that with Ayers 3 sacks....and that's getting closer.

Because over the course of the season the difference between 8 sacks and 11 sacks is so monumental right?

[LawDog]

My father-in-law wrecked his Vette while I was a passenger on 405 in Bellevue Wa some yrs ago, I will not ride with him again.

BTW, I was just kidding around. I'm far from a gear head.

Glad you are still around to make the choice not to ride with your f-i-l...

[SR]

Wouldn't surprise me now to see Denver go after a guy like Vanden Bosch just to have some veteran leadership at DE.

[VonDoom]

6 million? Please. I wonder what happened with Abraham.

If we're in no rush, I heard on another board that Trent Cole will probably be available in June. I don't know that much about him. He had a terrible year last year but didn't most Eagles? Anyone have an opinion on him?

[Northman]

At this point whatever we do is just a downgrade and patch up job.

[olathebroncofan]

I forgot vandenbosh. Was there something we missed about Abraham? Looks like we might not get a pass rusher until the draft

[Superchop 7]

Colts were smart for dumping this ass clown.

[Magnificent Seven]

I guess they want Freeney more than Malik Jackson.

[DenBronx]

What a total waste of everyones time. Freeney isnt near as good as Dume was.

I keep saying it more and more....draft Margus Hunt. Size, speed, athletism and brains. I would sign a vet to play MLB and then draft two DEs now....screw these old guys.

[Krugan]

Stupid damn mess this is....

[SR]

I guess they want Freeney more than Malik Jackson.

No shit they do. Jackson is a nobody.

[Timmy!]

Wouldn't surprise me now to see Denver go after a guy like Vanden Bosch just to have some veteran leadership at DE.

I was thinking about this too, I'm not sure if he has any left in the tank though. Only 3.5 sacks last year, 36 tackles, but the entire lions team just sucked last year. He had 8 sacks in 2011. Probably only be a one year rental as he's a geezer like Freeney, but if he'd come cheaper I think it could be smart move. Guy has also had a motor. Regardless I think the Broncos pretty much have to go DE in round 1 or 2.

[DenBronx]

If Freeney wants to come here then he needs to get his butt here in time for camp.

Hope Manning talks some sense into him.

[dogfish]

dwight and his agent have obviously been on a five-day tequila bender. . . cliff avril's 26 years old, with 20 sacks the last two years, and he had to settle for two years at 6.5 per. . . freeney's ancient, and he has 13 sacks the last two years. . . dude is tripping if he thinks he's worth that in this market, i hope we tell him to get bent. . . i'd barely want him at half that price. . .

if we don't want abe, it might be time to just forget about a vet, focus on the draft, and accept that our pass rush probably won't be as good this year. . . but f*** paying freeney's old gimp ass that kind of loot. . .

[Poet]

Because over the course of the season the difference between 8 sacks and 11 sacks is so monumental right?

Well, when you factor in the additional knockdowns, QB hits, hurries and general pass rush presence that goes right along with the 11 sacks.....

I think so.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

As soon as Elvis Dumervil agreed to terms with the Baltimore Ravens on Sunday, reports surfaced that the Denver Broncos would target Dwight Freeney to replace him.

However, according to the NFL Network, it might not be that easy. Freeney is said to want $6 million a year -- and might be willing to wait until the summer to sign. New Orleans also reportedly has interest in Freeney.

I can see Denver having issues with both Freeney’s financial demands and his timeline. The pass-rusher market has not been strong this offseason. Freeney is 33, coming off injuries and has been declining; I do not see Denver overpaying Freeney just to get him. It is not desperate for a top pass-rusher. And Freeney could merely be posturing at this point.

rest - http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/56601/is-freeney-pricing-self-out-of-denver

[dogfish]

Well, when you factor in the additional knockdowns, QB hits, hurries and general pass rush presence that goes right along with the 11 sacks.....

I think so.

huge difference. . . freeney is likely going to be used mostly as a third down rusher at this point--dumervil played most downs for us. . . if we're now looking at ayers (he of the three sacks last year, i believe) on first-- and possibly second-- down instead of doom, that's a massive drop-off in pressure. . . you know--especially on the downs when they don't blitz von miller, who happens to play SAM and have multiple responsibilities in case some have forgotten. . . although we'll almost have to blitz him more now-- which is fine by me, but it does limit your flexibility. . . it also means von will have to fight through even more double teams. . . and not that i don't think he's more than capable, but getting even more attention when he's the only edge rusher on the field won't make his job easier or make him more effective. . .


we really do need to bring in one more vet for this year. . . but i still feel like "eff dwight at that price". . .

the one thing you hope is that playing someone like ayers at RDE will give your run D a boost on those early downs-- but his motor has to run hot all the time for that to happen. . . we're probably going to have to be more creative generating pressure on first downs, though, which isn't really an ideal scenario for a D built with our principles. . .

[DenBronx]

So who's the official leader of the Eff Dwight movement now? We need a vocal leader on this one...

[rationalfan]

Keep this in mind, Denver had a few starters last year it didn't sign until the end of training camp.

I don't think the team is in as big a rush to find a DE as the fans are.

[Softskull]

I think we'll see Wolfe on the outside now. I hope the kid shines.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Looks like a DT or DE in the 1st 2 rounds this year or maybe both. There are some guys who can really be good at DE this year. Build through the draft or bring in cheaper FA's. Have a good rotation at DE to keep them fresh and keep the pressure on.

[DenBronx]

Keep this in mind, Denver had a few starters last year it didn't sign until the end of training camp.

I don't think the team is in as big a rush to find a DE as the fans are.



Yeah we did....but they were kind of 2nd tier guys. Not really impact players. It's going to be extremely difficult to replace what Dume brought to the table. I'm still heavily bitter towards him and I think the way he left sucked ass!

If guys like Freeney want to wait it out then fine. But if a DE falls into our lap and we grab one early and another later then Elway just might change his mind. Next thing you know Freeney is playing for the raiders, making less anyway and cant get off the field until Manning throws another TD.

[Dapper Dan]

Would Freeney do $4mill plus free pizza?

[Lancane]

I hope Denver is smart enough to look elsewhere, if they are that hard-up for a veteran defensive end, then Lawrence Jackson, Kyle Moore, Trevor Scott and Darryl Tapp are all still available.

[DenBronx]

Freeney needs the Broncos more than the Broncos need Freeney.

[TXBRONC]

Well, when you factor in the additional knockdowns, QB hits, hurries and general pass rush presence that goes right along with the 11 sacks.....

I think so.

Some people just are incapable of seeing the big picture.

[TXBRONC]

I think we'll see Wolfe on the outside now. I hope the kid shines.

My friend he is Denver's starting LDE.

[JPPT1974]

Freeney has only one or two more good years left! As hope that he can rebound after a bad 2012 year. Plus being reunited with Peyton does not hurt at all!

[CoachChaz]

This thread reminds me of a drunk woman. Overly emotionql and full of piss

[Jsteve01]

i don't see Trent Cole coming available. If he does, he'd a be a far better option than Freeney. There is no way I overpay for an oft injured undersized end who has never played well on grass. Cole on the other hand is a three down End who has been solid until last year. And he's younger than Freeney

[Northman]

dwight and his agent have obviously been on a five-day tequila bender. . . cliff avril's 26 years old, with 20 sacks the last two years, and he had to settle for two years at 6.5 per. . . freeney's ancient, and he has 13 sacks the last two years. . . dude is tripping if he thinks he's worth that in this market, i hope we tell him to get bent. . . i'd barely want him at half that price. . .

if we don't want abe, it might be time to just forget about a vet, focus on the draft, and accept that our pass rush probably won't be as good this year. . . but f*** paying freeney's old gimp ass that kind of loot. . .


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma3twwm1Lk1qd9vxuo1_400.jpg

[TXBRONC]

This thread reminds me of a drunk woman. Overly emotionql and full of piss

So it's like one of your love interests? :D

[aulaza]

I wonder if some of these guys might have an issue with only being used as a situational pass rusher. Maybe they have beef with the prospect of being off the field on first and most second downs.

Not sure why Abraham is not in the mix.

[CoachChaz]

So it's like one of your love interests? :D

No. That would be psychopathically emotional and covered in piss

[CoachChaz]

i don't see Trent Cole coming available. If he does, he'd a be a far better option than Freeney. There is no way I overpay for an oft injured undersized end who has never played well on grass. Cole on the other hand is a three down End who has been solid until last year. And he's younger than Freeney

There are those in the Eagles org that think he can transition to a 3-4 Joker. Playing DE in that wide 9 really wasnt too far off from playing Joker with your hand on the ground. But if he does become available...get his ass on the phone. He's not represented by Condon

[skins_fan82]

There are those in the Eagles org that think he can transition to a 3-4 Joker. Playing DE in that wide 9 really wasnt too far off from playing Joker with your hand on the ground. But if he does become available...get his ass on the phone. He's not represented by Condon

not a bad idea at all.

As an avid watcher of the NFC East and Redskins fan, Trent Cole is a ******* PROBLEM. He may not be a stat-sheet filler, but the guy contains well on the outside, and he stuffs gaps like its nobody's business.

[Ravage!!!]

Well, when you factor in the additional knockdowns, QB hits, hurries and general pass rush presence that goes right along with the 11 sacks.....

I think so.

Not to mention, if you are a guy that can get 11 sacks on his own, then you are more of a rushing threat to block than a guy that gets 3 or5... thus creating more havoc on a regular basis. It's like saying that having a single rusher that is capable of getting 1600 yrds by himself is no different than having 2 running backs that can get 800 each. HUGE difference as to what can happen when 1 is on the field compared to the other.

[Lancane]

I have to wonder why Denver is so focused on Freeney, is it because of Manning? Despite Welker being an upgrade at the slot, there were reports that Manning was a little upset due to his friendship with Stokely, but that he still made a recruiting call to Welker on behalf of the Broncos. Could Freeney be them trying to placate Manning for the loss of Stokes? I myself am not real excited about the prospect of Freeney in a Broncos' uniform, not when Denver could sign Trevor Scott who was solid in Oakland and had a decent year in New England, has only been in the league six years and has more football in him then as a one year rental pass rushing specialist.

[Ravage!!!]

I have to wonder why Denver is so focused on Freeney, is it because of Manning? Despite Welker being an upgrade at the slot, there were reports that Manning was a little upset due to his friendship with Stokely, but that he still made a recruiting call to Welker on behalf of the Broncos. Could Freeney be them trying to placate Manning for the loss of Stokes? I myself am not real excited about the prospect of Freeney in a Broncos' uniform, not when Denver could sign Trevor Scott who was solid in Oakland and had a decent year in New England, has only been in the league six years and has more football in him then as a one year rental pass rushing specialist.

I don't think that Elway is trying to placate Manning with the Freeney signing. We just paid Manning 40 million more dollars after he passed a physical, so I don't think Elway feels he needs to 'give' more to Manning to make him feel better. Most probably, the Broncos talent evaluators...or our DC... has different perspectives on the players available, and how they will fit the role, than you do.

[LawDog]

I don't get the references to Manning in this thread. Sure PFM made a phone call "Hey Dwight, Denver is a great organization, you should give serious consideration to coming here, lemme know if you have any questions. Also, you still owe me dinners for all those times I burned you up at practice in Indy." But being reunited? Or placating Manning? Makes no sense at all - people realize they're never on the field at the same time, right?

[Ravage!!!]

I don't get the references to Manning in this thread. Sure PFM made a phone call "Hey Dwight, Denver is a great organization, you should give serious consideration to coming here, lemme know if you have any questions. Also, you still owe me dinners for all those times I burned you up at practice in Indy." But being reunited? Or placating Manning? Makes no sense at all - people realize they're never on the field at the same time, right?

What does not being on the field at the same time have ANYTHING to do with the idea that Manning could/would want Freeney here....or that signing him might have somethign to do with Manning recruiting to Elway on behalf of Freeney? Or that Manning put the sales pitch in for Freeney?

You do realize that Manning knows more than just his WRs on the team, right?

[Lancane]

I don't think that Elway is trying to placate Manning with the Freeney signing. We just paid Manning 40 million more dollars after he passed a physical, so I don't think Elway feels he needs to 'give' more to Manning to make him feel better. Most probably, the Broncos talent evaluators...or our DC... has different perspectives on the players available, and how they will fit the role, than you do.

You could possibly be right, then again, you could possibly be wrong. While Freeney is talented, his numbers have declined and not due to injuries alone. His age is of relative concern, especially given that decline. However, the mere fact that they are overlooking Abraham completely, who has been more productive does sort of raise a question or two. But I would not be surprised if they were trying to sing him to placate Manning, while I respect him as a player, there have been times in the past where he has been a little bit more vocal about what he wants, so that could be a factor. Del Rio does like to use smaller pass rushers off the edge though, so you probably have the right of it.

I don't know if you were trying to make the post personal at the end? If so, I am sorry you feel the need to make it so. And you may not have meant anything by it either and it's just the way the end of your post is coming across.

[Lancane]

Actually, Rav and I, like a good number of posters on this board have known each other for a long time. And truth be told, we see eye to eye on a good number of things more then disagree, so it would be surprising if he meant for the end of his post to be taken that way...but you never know, he could simply could be being having a bad day and looking to release his frustrations out on someone. We all have our bitchy moments, and we tend to look the other way most of the time.

[Nomad]

Actually, Rav and I, like a good number of posters on this board have known each other for a long time. And truth be told, we see eye to eye on a good number of things more then disagree, so it would be surprising if he meant for the end of his post to be taken that way...but you never know, he could simply could be being having a bad day and looking to release his frustrations out on someone. We all have our bitchy moments, and we tend to look the other way most of the time.

Yep! I would buy a beer or 2 for anyone here and have a few laughs while we're at it.

[Dzone]

I dont drink, but will meet you all for tea. Or if in Colorado, we can share a bowl and have some laughs. Oops, I meant we can go bowling.

[ShaneFalco]

hahahaa

[aulaza]

Maybe this will make Freeney realise that he ain't getting what he's asking for:

Umenyiora signs with Falcons on 2 year, $8.5 M deal.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000154695/article/osi-umenyiora-atlanta-falcons-agree-to-contract

If Osi is getting 4.25 per year, there is no way that Freeney gets 6.

[Northman]

I really wish we would concentrate on getting Abraham.

[TXBRONC]

I really wish we would concentrate on getting Abraham.

I just got done reading an article in the D.P. that went through Denver's options. In it Mike Klis stated Denver prefers Freeney because from game film they think he has more left in tank than you might think he has because of his poor production last season.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22887240/broncos-seem-likely-stick-ayers-at-de-and

[Northman]

But we are talking about Klis here. Frankly im not buying it and i would really hate to waste money on a has been. I would be more inclined for them to draft somebody than waste that kind of money on a huge question mark.

[TXBRONC]

But we are talking about Klis here. Frankly im not buying it and i would really hate to waste money on a has been. I would be more inclined for them to draft somebody than waste that kind of money on a huge question mark.

That's what Klis is saying. While Freeney maybe Denver's "new" first choice it's looking atm like they'll go with Ayers and the draft. Even if Denver signs Freeney I can see them keeping their eyes open for longer term solution.

If he hasn't signed by the time of the draft and Denver does draft Werner then I doubt we'll sign him.

[BroncoStud]

Does anyone else see the issue and conflict of interest when all the top DEs are represented by the same agency?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi

I have been assured that the Broncos are still actively pursuing Freeney and/or Abraham.

[rationalfan]

But we are talking about Klis here. Frankly im not buying it and i would really hate to waste money on a has been. I would be more inclined for them to draft somebody than waste that kind of money on a huge question mark.

lately, klis breaks more accurate news on the broncos than anyone else in the nation. others - vic lombardi, josina anderson, the myriad internet bloggers/trolls - play their sensational scoops that get the fans churning, but their "scoops" often turn out to be wrong or mostly wrong.

to me, klis and andrew mason are the best we have right now, if you value consistently accurate info.

[chazoe60]

lately, klis breaks more accurate news on the broncos than anyone else in the nation. others - vic lombardi, josina anderson, the myriad internet bloggers/trolls - play their sensational scoops that get the fans churning, but their "scoops" often turn out to be wrong or mostly wrong.

to me, klis and andrew mason are the best we have right now, if you value consistently accurate info.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Northman]

lately, klis breaks more accurate news on the broncos than anyone else in the nation. others - vic lombardi, josina anderson, the myriad internet bloggers/trolls - play their sensational scoops that get the fans churning, but their "scoops" often turn out to be wrong or mostly wrong.

to me, klis and andrew mason are the best we have right now, if you value consistently accurate info.

If you say so Mr. Smug.

[chazoe60]

If you say so Mr. Smug.

He's not smug, he's rational.

[turftoad]

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi

I have been assured that the Broncos are still actively pursuing Freeney and/or Abraham.

Those geezers are pricing themselves out of the market. I'd rather live with Ayers and draft a pass rusher at this point.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 3

As I said on The Fan today, Freeney will milk this as long as he can. He wants 5-plus a year.

Ian Rapoport

More from TA, as I try to recover from Johan's news: Freeney wants more than Osi's deal & is willing to wait. Likes Broncos, Lions, Dolphins

Retweeted by Vic Lombardi

[Northman]

Lmao.

[Nomad]

Not that I am for or against Freeney or really know his worth, but was the reason for his drop off last year due to mileage or the defensive scheme?

[CoachChaz]

Not that I am for or against Freeney or really know his worth, but was the reason for his drop off last year due to mileage or the defensive scheme?

Scheme...but also the way he was used in that scheme

[Northman]

Not that I am for or against Freeney or really know his worth, but was the reason for his drop off last year due to mileage or the defensive scheme?

Mileage.

The year before he was in the same scheme and had 8.5 sacks compared to just the 5 this year. Age is just catching up with him at this point.

[rationalfan]

If you say so Mr. Smug.

He's not smug, he's rational.

And you're quite original.

[rationalfan]

lately, klis breaks more accurate news on the broncos than anyone else in the nation. others - vic lombardi, josina anderson, the myriad internet bloggers/trolls - play their sensational scoops that get the fans churning, but their "scoops" often turn out to be wrong or mostly wrong.

to me, klis and andrew mason are the best we have right now, if you value consistently accurate info.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Counter argument?

[chazoe60]

And you're quite original.

Thank you.

[chazoe60]

Counter argument?

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Joel]

I really wish we would concentrate on getting Abraham.
I'm with you on that much. Freeney's never impressed me; I feel like he has a nice swim move but little else, especially against the run. Granted, he's an RDE, and teams didn't run on Indy much anyway when Manning, Harrison and Wayne were putting up 40 pts/game, but Abraham gets the sacks AND stops the run, so I'd prefer him. We had a great secondary AND pass rush under McDumbass, but it didn't matter because teams could gash us for 5+ yards per carry with far less risk of a turnover, so they seldom threw until we stacked the box from necessity and made it irresistble.

If Freeney wants to do us like Doom did, the same logic applies to a guy who's older, weak against the run and had half as many sacks last year.

[ShaneFalco]

at this point i almost wish we draft another DE. Sucks because i wanted to see us draft Safety, CB. RBs...

[Dzone]

What is Freeneys sack total playing outside on grass vs indoors on plastic...just asking since someone rumored that Freeney sucks on grass...I guess we have to leave it up to elway to decide. Thats cool.

[Lancane]

Sadly, there are a number of solid or above average traditional 4-3 defensive ends early in this draft if that is what Denver is looking for, but if they are looking at those similar to Dumervil or Freeney, the defensive end/linebacker hybrids who are above average pass rushers? This draft is latent with them. John Simon, Chase Thomas, Corey Lemonier, Jamey Collins, Michael Buchanan, Stansly Moponga and the list goes on.

[WARHORSE]

Pass on Freeney. He is NOT worth 6 mil a year.

Give him 2 mil maybe with some incentives.

Let him sit on the side if he thinks hes worth more.

[TXBRONC]

Pass on Freeney. He is NOT worth 6 mil a year.

Give him 2 mil maybe with some incentives.

Let him sit on the side if he thinks hes worth more.

I doubt anyone is going to give him $6 million to be a third down pass rush specialist.

[ShaneFalco]

ok i saw freeney sacks for last season.... 5 sacks 13 tackles i believe....

Is this a joke? 1 mil per sack?

[Jsteve01]

in all fairness, he played out of position in a 3-4 and had a high ankle sprain early in the season. That said, hes on the wrong side of thirty. I'd expect him to get a deal in the 4.5 to 5 per range like Osi. Abraham had a much better season

[Lancane]

J, sadly the reports have begun to state that he wants more money then Osi. There is no way he is worth more then Avril or Bennett, I wouldn't give the bum more then 2.5, 3 million tops per season, and his attitude has rubbed me wrong as well. I say F' Freeney, F' Seymour and F' Abraham...instead sign Trevor Scott (who is a more traditional 4-3 defensive end and can rush the passer) to a three year deal and draft someone that can be a pass rushing specialist on third downs. Win-win IMHO, you get a better defensive end then Ayers and you make of for the rest of the loss by adding someone that is drafted mainly to rush the passer alongside Miller and Wolfe from any direction.

[Simple Jaded]

Freeney is a HoFer, Joel, what does it take to impress you?

[SR]

Why do some of you think Wolfe is a pass rusher? Dude weighs 300 pounds. He's not a speed guy.

[Dapper Dan]

Why do some of you think Wolfe is a pass rusher? Dude weighs 300 pounds. He's not a speed guy.

Because he gets the sacks, I reckon. As long as there are two speed rushers and the DBs are covering like they have.

[SR]

Because he gets the sacks, I reckon. As long as there are two speed rushers and the DBs are covering like they have.

He might get 5-8 sacks in a season but he isn't a pass rushing end like Dumervil.

[TXBRONC]

Because he gets the sacks, I reckon. As long as there are two speed rushers and the DBs are covering like they have.

Dumervil wasn't a speed rusher.

[TXBRONC]

He might get 5-8 sacks in a season but he isn't a pass rushing end like Dumervil.

I've been under the impression from the time we drafted him that Denver's expectation was that he would get between 6-8 sacks.

[Jsteve01]

I've been under the impression from the time we drafted him that Denver's expectation was that he would get between 6-8 sacks.

It will be interesting to see how he does this year with more onus on him to get to the qb. I think he could be in the 8-9 range this year.

[TXBRONC]

It will be interesting to see how he does this year with more onus on him to get to the qb. I think he could be in the 8-9 range this year.

All three of us are in the same ball park for whatever that is worth.

[Joel]

Freeney is a HoFer, Joel, what does it take to impress you?
Playing first and second down would be a good start. 107.5 sacks is a nice career stat, but 266 solo tackles isn't, especially when half came in Freeney's first four years. He's only hit 30 tackles three times (all in those first four seasons,) and only ONCE had >32. Less than ONE sack and TWO tackles per START? That's decent, but not worth a bronze bust.

He'll get one anyway because Manning, Harrison, Wayne and Addai brought the nations press to the first half of his career, but that just proves the world round instead of fair. Those teams consistently had the leagues worst defenses, usually ranked near or at the bottom against the run, and we all know they managed to reach two Super Bowls DESPITE, not because, of that. Super Bowl XLI was a great game when Indy had the ball against one of the all time great defenses; the rest was a disaster the Bears offense lost more than Indys D won.

Freeney's got a good swim move but, IMHO, little else. That's not enough, because even in Goodells league turnovers are THREE TIMES more common passing than running. Ask McDumbass how much an elite secondary and pass rush help a team even mediocre backs consistently gash for 5 yards a run. After Dooms first year many here openly asked whether great pass rushing justified $1-2 million/year for a guy so weak against the run he LITERALLY spent 90% of the game on the bench. The question's still valid, the answer's still "no" and doubling or TRIPLING the price for a guy ten years older only makes it more emphatic.

Since Umenyiora's gone I'm hopeful but doubtful of Abraham; I've been wanting a NT and MLB since we lost Wilson, and look what that's gotten me. ;)

[TXBRONC]

John Randle has 466 tackles and 137.5 sacks for his career. He also has a bronze bust. :coffee:

Joel I sure don't know where you get your stats because 266 is 32 short of what I saw. According to what I just saw Freeney has 298 career tackles.

It doesn't seem like you're taking into consideration who playing on the other side of ball.

[SR]

Playing first and second down would be a good start. 107.5 sacks is a nice career stat, but 266 solo tackles isn't, especially when half came in Freeney's first four years. He's only hit 30 tackles three times (all in those first four seasons,) and only ONCE had >32. Less than ONE sack and TWO tackles per START? That's decent, but not worth a bronze bust.

He'll get one anyway because Manning, Harrison, Wayne and Addai brought the nations press to the first half of his career, but that just proves the world round instead of fair. Those teams consistently had the leagues worst defenses, usually ranked near or at the bottom against the run, and we all know they managed to reach two Super Bowls DESPITE, not because, of that. Super Bowl XLI was a great game when Indy had the ball against one of the all time great defenses; the rest was a disaster the Bears offense lost more than Indys D won.

Freeney's got a good swim move but, IMHO, little else. That's not enough, because even in Goodells league turnovers are THREE TIMES more common passing than running. Ask McDumbass how much an elite secondary and pass rush help a team even mediocre backs consistently gash for 5 yards a run. After Dooms first year many here openly asked whether great pass rushing justified $1-2 million/year for a guy so weak against the run he LITERALLY spent 90% of the game on the bench. The question's still valid, the answer's still "no" and doubling or TRIPLING the price for a guy ten years older only makes it more emphatic.

Since Umenyiora's gone I'm hopeful but doubtful of Abraham; I've been wanting a NT and MLB since we lost Wilson, and look what that's gotten me. ;)

Are you new? Jeebus.

[Joel]

John Randle has 466 tackles and 137.5 sacks for his career. He also has a bronze bust. :coffee:

Joel I sure don't know where you get your stats because 266 is 32 short of what I saw. According to what I just saw Freeney has 298 career tackles.
Randle had TWICE as many tackles and 30 more sacks. The stats are Pro Football References: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FreeDw00.htm It lists 39 players comparable to Freeney over all or part of a career; just five are in Canton. Even that's generous; Chris Doleman had 50% more sacks and nearly FOUR TIMES as many tackles in just four more years, and Freeney will NEVER be mistaken for Deacon Jones.

I also clearly stated SOLO tackles: Freeney has 266 plus 32 ASSISTS. Randle had 471 solos plus 85 assists. 298 vs. 556? A 2:1 ratio is comparable? Freeney would have to average 65 solo tackles, 18 assists and 10 sacks/year for the next three seasons to match Randles 14 year career. I'm not holding my breath, especially since Freeney's only had HALF that many solo tackles ONCE in the eleven years he's played so far.


It doesn't seem like you're taking into consideration who playing on the other side of ball.
The Colts play six games/year against the awful Jags, inept Titans and a team CREATED Freeneys rookie year; that explains why a team that racked up a dozen wins a year for a decade was usually one-and-done in the playoffs, but doesn't help his case for the Hall. That was mainly about who played the other side of the ball on HIS team; IN the playoffs Freeney's a game above .500, and not because his offense failed him.

He's got a nice swim move, and I wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley, but on first and second down I want someone else playing RDE. Again, how much is a guy who misses 90% of the game worth?

[TXBRONC]

Randle had TWICE as many tackles and 30 more sacks. The stats are Pro Football References: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FreeDw00.htm It lists 39 players comparable to Freeney over all or part of a career; just five are in Canton. Even that's generous; Chris Doleman had 50% more sacks and nearly FOUR TIMES as many tackles in just four more years, and Freeney will NEVER be mistaken for Deacon Jones.

I also clearly stated SOLO tackles: Freeney has 266 plus 32 ASSISTS. Randle had 471 solos plus 85 assists. 298 vs. 556? A 2:1 ratio is comparable? Freeney would have to average 65 solo tackles, 18 assists and 10 sacks/year for the next three seasons to match Randles 14 year career. I'm not holding my breath, especially since Freeney's only had HALF that many solo tackles ONCE in the eleven years he's played so far.


The Colts play six games/year against the awful Jags, inept Titans and a team CREATED Freeneys rookie year; that explains why a team that racked up a dozen wins a year for a decade was usually one-and-done in the playoffs, but doesn't help his case for the Hall. That was mainly about who played the other side of the ball on HIS team; IN the playoffs Freeney's a game above .500, and not because his offense failed him.

He's got a nice swim move, and I wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley, but on first and second down I want someone else playing RDE. Again, how much is a guy who misses 90% of the game worth?

You must think everyone else is dumb. You have set number from Pro Football Reference which is good source but they're not gospel truth. According to Espn counting it comes up different. Randles comes out 408 total tackles, 307 solo, and 101 assists. Freeney's 298 total tackles, 258 solo, and 40 asists. You'll find the exact same numbers for Freeney on NFL.com.

I'm leary of bringing in Freeney but I know you're not accurate about him because I know he has more that just a swim move. One of his favorite moves is a shoulder dip. I'm skeptical of your analysis.

[Joel]

Are you new? Jeebus.
No, and I often think that's the problem: I'm old enough to recall when Madden NFL emulated the REAL NFL instead of the reverse. There's more to football than bombs, sacks and picks, or at least, once WAS.


You must think everyone else is dumb. You have set number from Pro Football Reference which is good source but they're not gospel truth. According to Espn counting it comes up different. Randles comes out 408 total tackles, 307 solo, and 101 assists. Freeney's 298 total tackles, 258 solo, and 40 asists. You'll find the exact same numbers for Freeney on NFL.com.

I'm leary of bringing in Freeney but I know you're not accurate about him because I know he has more that just a swim move. One of his favorite moves is a shoulder dip. I'm skeptical of your analysis.
*shrug* You cited 266 solos and 32 assists before, exactly what I'd already cited from PFR. Even ESPN lists Randle with 50 more solo and 100 more total tackles; Freeney's unlikely to make up the difference in three years: He'd need to finish EACH with 29 solo tackles (which he's only done three times, the last being 2005) and 55 total (he's NEVER come closer to that than 45 solos and an assist his rookie year.)

You're right about the shoulder dip, which isn't EXACTLY the same as a swim, so my mistake there. It still makes him a one trick pony with the same problem as all such: A very nice trick, but not a $4-5 million one.

I'm FAR from the only one who thinks Freeney garbage against the run; many amateur AND pro anyalysts have said it throughout his career. It usually didn't matter because Peyton was good for a 20 point second half lead that let him pin his ears back and blitz, but that makes him a good pass rusher, not a great RDE. There IS a difference; I don't think most folks dumb, but DO wish many would stop trying to convince me.

[underrated29]

Freeney has an incredibly sick spin move! Not sure how anyone can forget that. I still do not want him, but saying he has one move is pretty unjust.

[Joel]

Freeney has an incredibly sick spin move! Not sure how anyone can forget that. I still do not want him, but saying he has one move is pretty unjust.
So driving the outside shoulder into a blocker and pivoting off it is three different moves? There's some difference between a swim move and a spin or shoulder dip, but the difference between the last two is mostly semantic. I'd prefer Abraham, especially at $4-5 million; that's a lot of cap for a guy who doesn't play first down, second down or any offense. $5 million/year to spend 90% of the game on the bench? Whoa, Nelly.

[Simple Jaded]

Anybody who counts a swim move as Freeney's only skill has never seen him play. You can bet your Tebow jersey that Freeney will be in the HoF soon, most likely first ballot.

[Lancane]

Anybody who counts a swim move as Freeney's only skill has never seen him play. You can bet your Tebow jersey that Freeney will be in the HoF soon, most likely first ballot.

Sarcasm...it's a riot! :lol:

[Joel]

Anybody who counts a swim move as Freeney's only skill has never seen him play. You can bet your Tebow jersey that Freeney will be in the HoF soon, most likely first ballot.
Remind me again which of us is obsessed with that dude.... ;)

By any name, Freeney's got ONE move; if the NFL banned it on the grounds QBs must never be touched he'd retire tomorrow. Run at him and he's just another player, who probably has nightmares about Tebow. :tongue:

[BroncoWave]

From Vic Lombardi this morning:

"Broncos still waiting for Freeney to re-orbit the earth with his salary demands."

[Lancane]

From Vic Lombardi this morning:

"Broncos still waiting for Freeney to re-orbit the earth with his salary demands."

I don't think he will to be quite honest, Seymour has said he'll wait until a team has such a need as they have to pay him what he's seeking. I wouldn't be surprised if Freeney does the same, after all these 'old-timers' are watching record setting contracts for quarterbacks, and they want a piece of the pie as well...personally, I say screw em' and let em' choke on the pie!

[Joel]

I don't think he will to be quite honest, Seymour has said he'll wait until a team has such a need as they have to pay him what he's seeking. I wouldn't be surprised if Freeney does the same, after all these 'old-timers' are watching record setting contracts for quarterbacks, and they want a piece of the pie as well...personally, I say screw em' and let em' choke on the pie!
In the end, it comes down to whether they get someone to bite. If no one does by the time training camp rolls around, which it soon will, do you think they'll skip one of their last seasons and probably ~$4 million just because they believe themselves worth twice that, despite a market clearly dictating otherwise? I couldn't care less about Freeney, but he's probably better than nothing if the price is right. I'd love to have Abraham.

[Lancane]

In the end, it comes down to whether they get someone to bite. If no one does by the time training camp rolls around, which it soon will, do you think they'll skip one of their last seasons and probably ~$4 million just because they believe themselves worth twice that, despite a market clearly dictating otherwise? I couldn't care less about Freeney, but he's probably better than nothing if the price is right. I'd love to have Abraham.

Will they get someone to bite? Who the hell knows and really, who the hell cares. Personally if they're wanting so much instead of chasing a championship Denver would be better suited signing younger, lesser known players and drafting at the position, 4 million may sound like chump change, but that would be wiser spent on youth, those hungry to prove themselves, especially if they land on a team that is a favorite to contend for a title.

[Joel]

Will they get someone to bite? Who the hell knows and really, who the hell cares. Personally if they're wanting so much instead of chasing a championship Denver would be better suited signing younger, lesser known players and drafting at the position, 4 million may sound like chump change, but that would be wiser spent on youth, those hungry to prove themselves, especially if they land on a team that is a favorite to contend for a title.
I agree in principle, but we have a very narrow window of opportunity to win a title before Peyton and Champ retire. On the other hand, sackmeisters usually don't take long to develop, so if we draft a good one rather than a bust maybe that'll be enough. Yet unless we draft two depth would remain an issue, and the kind of DEs who blitz as well as Doom on the right AND stuff the run like Ayers on the left are hard to get.

I get the impression we'd take either Abraham or Freeney were they willing to play for "just" $4 million, but they want more like twice that. Just my impression though.

[Jsteve01]

Sure hope we find a Bert Barry clone this off-season

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi

Freeney made 14-million dollars last year. He's in no hurry to work.

Broncos are still actively courting Freeney. Next 48 hours may accelerate that process.

[Poet]

Joel, Freeney still has a solid spin move, which was his trademark move in his prime. He was never touted as being a great run stopping DE.

[TXBRONC]

Joel, Freeney still has a solid spin move, which was his trademark move in his prime. He was never touted as being a great run stopping DE.

That's true many of better pass rushers in the league.

[TXBRONC]

Joel, Freeney still has a solid spin move, which was his trademark move in his prime. He was never touted as being a great run stopping DE.

That's true many of better pass rushers in the league.