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View Full Version : Kiszla: Elvis Dumervil's clock is ticking, but Broncos aren't budging



Denver Native (Carol)
03-14-2013, 08:18 PM
The clock is ticking, John Elway's stomach is churning and Elvis Dumervil has a tough decision to make. By no later than 1:59 p.m. Friday, Dumervil will either take a pay cut or be gone from the Broncos.

"These are the deals that wrench your gut," Elway said Thursday. Elway stood in team headquarters, one floor above the Denver locker room, in the executive offices where he must make tough decisions that impact the lives of athletes.

Dumvervil can take the offer. Or leave.

"As an ex-player, I hate to see that. I hated to see that happen to a teammate. And I hate having to do it, in the position I'm in. But I've got to do what's best for this football team," Elway said.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_22793794/kiszla-elvis-dumervils-clock-is-ticking-broncos

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03-14-2013, 08:32 PM
It's not this regime's fault. It's the last one's.

The Broncos have straightened out one mess after another ever since.

TYJE
.

Poet
03-14-2013, 08:35 PM
Doom got a fair contract. He's bent backwards for the organization and has been a stud pass rusher at 4-3 and 3-4. If he doesn't feel like taking a paycut, it can't be held against him.

Ziggy
03-14-2013, 08:39 PM
Doom got a fair contract. He's bent backwards for the organization and has been a stud pass rusher at 4-3 and 3-4. If he doesn't feel like taking a paycut, it can't be held against him.

Even so, he's not going to get 10 million/year on the open market. I'm guessing he gets an offer similar to Krugar's.

broncohead
03-14-2013, 08:41 PM
Doom got a fair contract. He's bent backwards for the organization and has been a stud pass rusher at 4-3 and 3-4. If he doesn't feel like taking a paycut, it can't be held against him.

If he doesn't take a pay cut i wont hold it against him. Its a business and he took the money that was offered. Is he worth 12 mil though? I don't think he is being that he is a pass rusher and thats it. Plus he bull rushed 90% of the time last season. Wasnt hard for OT's to figure him out

Poet
03-14-2013, 08:42 PM
Even so, he's not going to get 10 million/year on the open market. I'm guessing he gets an offer similar to Krugar's.

I guess I see it this way, he got a legitimate contract that paid him what he was worth. Now the team wants to change that, I can understand that. But they've basically backed him into a corner with "see how good this team is, you have to take a cut now." He's not being browbeaten because that would imply that Elway is conspiring against him, but I can't fault him if it feels that way.

It's a business, and if he thinks he can get more money from somewhere else, I hope he walks IF that is what he wants to do.

BeefStew25
03-14-2013, 08:49 PM
The title seems like Elvis is ready for his egg to be fertilized before menopause, but the Broncos arent sure they are ready.

Poet
03-14-2013, 08:50 PM
The title seems like Elvis is ready for his egg to be fertilized before menopause, but the Broncos arent sure they are ready.

You are a faggot.

BeefStew25
03-14-2013, 08:51 PM
You are a faggot.

King text we when:

a) a decision is made on Doom
b) your cholesterol and IQ grow toward each other

turftoad
03-14-2013, 08:53 PM
Doom got a fair contract. He's bent backwards for the organization and has been a stud pass rusher at 4-3 and 3-4. If he doesn't feel like taking a paycut, it can't be held against him.

I like Elvis, I like him a lot. I hope they work things out. But.... In Denver or elsewhere, he will be taking a paycut.

Northman
03-14-2013, 08:57 PM
Its going to suck if they cant get it done.

rationalfan
03-14-2013, 09:07 PM
Good column by kiz. Most balanced one I've read in a while.

pipes
03-14-2013, 09:27 PM
Seattle's probably licking their chops

Poet
03-14-2013, 09:47 PM
King text we when:

a) a decision is made on Doom
b) your cholesterol and IQ grow toward each other

What the **** did you just say?

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03-14-2013, 09:51 PM
I guess I see it this way, he got a legitimate contract that paid him what he was worth. Now the team wants to change that, I can understand that. But they've basically backed him into a corner with "see how good this team is, you have to take a cut now." He's not being browbeaten because that would imply that Elway is conspiring against him, but I can't fault him if it feels that way.

It's a business, and if he thinks he can get more money from somewhere else, I hope he walks IF that is what he wants to do.
No, he got a ridiculous contract that, as John Elway put it, was "out of whack."
In fact, it is waaayyyy out of whack. He's getting nearly double the market
value of top players at his position. As I mentioned, it is a mess created by the
last FO that this one has to straighten out. Again.

No, I won't hold it against Elvis if he doesn't want to take a cut down to a
sane amount. But if he doesn't, all he will accomplish is to go to another team
for what they are offering him right here. *shrugs*
.

Poet
03-14-2013, 09:53 PM
Top, what were his numbers when he got that contract? What position was he playing?

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03-14-2013, 09:57 PM
Top, what were his numbers when he got that contract? What position was he playing?
That's common knowledge, King.

You been living in a bomb shelter?
.

Poet
03-14-2013, 10:01 PM
That's common knowledge, King.

You been living in a bomb shelter?
.

He got DeMarcus Ware money for playing like DeMarcus Ware. It wasn't a ridiculous contract, he got it after leading the league in sacks, didn't he? That was after proving that he's a great DE and OLB. You're acting like he was Ray Edwards.

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03-14-2013, 10:10 PM
He got DeMarcus Ware money for playing like DeMarcus Ware. It wasn't a ridiculous contract, he got it after leading the league in sacks, didn't he? That was after proving that he's a great DE and OLB. You're acting like he was Ray Edwards.
I think you need to take this up with John Elway if you think his pay is so fair.
It's what Elvis is worth to the Broncos, and what he would bring on the
market. He might bring probably $8 million if all the money around the league
isn't dried up. If I were to take a wild guess, I would guess that the Broncos
are offering him $9 million or so . . . perhaps a little more than the market
price as a face-saving gesture.

I hope he takes it. I don't want Elvis going anywhere. But if he doesn't, I'm
in total agreement with their letting him go. This FO took what was close to
the worst team in the league and made it what is close to the best. I would
say their best judgment is far better than mine on this issue . . .
.

DenBronx
03-14-2013, 10:12 PM
Elway: Dumervil’s salary is “out of whack, hopefully he realizes that”

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 14, 2013, 9:29 PM EDT

The Broncos will cut defensive end Elvis Dumervil on Friday if he doesn’t take a significant pay cut. Although all indications are that Dumervil isn’t willing to cut his pay by as much as the Broncos want, Denver front office boss John Elway says he wants Dumervil to realize that there’s just no way he’s ever going to get paid the $12 million salary on his current contract.

“It’s so far out of whack,” Elway told the Denver Post of Dumervil’s salary. “Hopefully, he realizes that.”

READ FULL ARTICLE HERE:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/14/elway-dumervils-salary-is-out-of-whack-hopefully-he-realizes-that/










There's no denying it.....Elway has balls of steel. I would hate to see Elvis go but if we can pick up another player or two then so be it. I would love to see Osi here personally, he's more well rounded. But I still like Doom. This is a tough decision bu Itus Elway will do what's best.

Poet
03-14-2013, 10:21 PM
I think you need to take this up with John Elway if you think his pay is so fair.
It's what Elvis is worth to the Broncos, and what he would bring on the
market. He might bring probably $8 million if all the money around the league
isn't dried up. If I were to take a wild guess, I would guess that the Broncos
are offering him $9 million or so . . . perhaps a little more than the market
price as a face-saving gesture.

I hope he takes it. I don't want Elvis going anywhere. But if he doesn't, I'm
in total agreement with their letting him go. This FO took what was close to
the worst team in the league and made it what is close to the best. I would
say their best judgment is far better than mine on this issue . . .
.

So what you're telling me, is that Elvis should take less money, that he signed three years ago, because right now he wouldn't get as much money?

That is not good business practice. Again, I understand why Elway is doing what he's doing. It is his job to handle business fiscally in a manner that makes sense for Denver. However, plenty of players get overpaid and ride out their entire contract. You overpay in free agency. Joe Flacco isn't worth 120 million. Mike Wallace isn't worth what he got. You pay to fill a need. That's what Denver did when they signed him, and he lead the league in sacks. So it would be ok for the Broncos to say "take less money or get the **** out," but you would throw a tizzy if Doom has said "Pay me more money or I'm chilling on my couch."

The notion that you have that Doom SHOULD do this is ridiculous.

As far as the nine million a year, Kruger is a one year wonder. Avril got sacks on a stacked defensive line. There are more questions about them than Doom. If Elway offered him 8 million a year he would have gotten laughed at. I would guess that the number is at 10. Or nine with crap friendly incentives that should be reachable for Doom.

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03-14-2013, 10:29 PM
So what you're telling me, is that Elvis should take less money, that he signed three years ago, because right now he wouldn't get as much money?

That is not good business practice. Again, I understand why Elway is doing what he's doing. It is his job to handle business fiscally in a manner that makes sense for Denver. However, plenty of players get overpaid and ride out their entire contract. You overpay in free agency. Joe Flacco isn't worth 120 million. Mike Wallace isn't worth what he got. You pay to fill a need. That's what Denver did when they signed him, and he lead the league in sacks. So it would be ok for the Broncos to say "take less money or get the **** out," but you would throw a tizzy if Doom has said "Pay me more money or I'm chilling on my couch."

The notion that you have that Doom SHOULD do this is ridiculous.

As far as the nine million a year, Kruger is a one year wonder. Avril got sacks on a stacked defensive line. There are more questions about them than Doom. If Elway offered him 8 million a year he would have gotten laughed at. I would guess that the number is at 10. Or nine with crap friendly incentives that should be reachable for Doom.
Here are the facts: Elway runs a successful NFL football franchise.

You don't.

I agree with John Elway.
.

Poet
03-14-2013, 10:35 PM
Act your age.

An NFL executive did something I don't agree with. Oh wait, that's not what I said. I said I understand why he's doing it, but I get Doom's point of view. As far as Elway being an NFL executive, plenty of NFL executives make mistakes, even good ones. So by your logic, don't you ever disagree with a coach's call, play selection, challenge, draft pick, trade, or anything like that. Hey Top, you just defeated the entire purpose of a message board.

Krugan
03-14-2013, 10:42 PM
I dont agree with any of this, hold out or contract pay drop.

I guess im one of the few left that think a contract is a contract and it should be honored. From either side.

If you cant meet the cost of what you offered, eat the loss and move on. Out of whack or not, the correct thing to have done was release him before free agency or suck it up and pay the guy.

Guess im crazy :(

topscribe
03-14-2013, 10:42 PM
Act your age.

An NFL executive did something I don't agree with. Oh wait, that's not what I said. I said I understand why he's doing it, but I get Doom's point of view. As far as Elway being an NFL executive, plenty of NFL executives make mistakes, even good ones. So by your logic, don't you ever disagree with a coach's call, play selection, challenge, draft pick, trade, or anything like that. Hey Top, you just defeated the entire purpose of a message board.
Michael, please refer to my MHS. :tsk:
.

topscribe
03-14-2013, 10:45 PM
I dont agree with any of this, hold out or contract pay drop.

I guess im one of the few left that think a contract is a contract and it should be honored. From either side.

If you cant meet the cost of what you offered, eat the loss and move on. Out of whack or not, the correct thing to have done was release him before free agency or suck it up and pay the guy.

Guess im crazy :(
Well, that's one point of view that's hard to argue with. I grew up where a
handshake was a man's bond. Written contracts were not needed. Today,
even written contracts too often seem worthless . . .
.

Jsteve01
03-14-2013, 10:49 PM
new management in any business may revise the agreements written by the previous regime. Sucks but it's true.

Dzone
03-14-2013, 11:24 PM
Prenuptial agreements are no longer worth the paper they are printed on...marry a woman now days and she owns your ass forever, or at least half of your ass and one of your nuts...

sneakers
03-14-2013, 11:33 PM
It's not this regime's fault. It's the last one's.

The Broncos have straightened out one mess after another ever since.

TYJE
.

Blame Bush......yada yada yada

topscribe
03-14-2013, 11:38 PM
Blame Bush......yada yada yada
Reggie doesn't have a thing to do with this . . .
.

Lancane
03-15-2013, 12:51 AM
It is really sad that Dumervil's agent is leading him by the nose into a bad situation, one that could turn against the Broncos as well, and I am not talking simply about the loss of a productive defensive end and fan favorite...but into something far more ugly, we could see him go to a rival team like KC, San Diego or Oakland, he could go to San Francisco, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, NY or even worse to New England. This could become sort of our Achilles with a contender or rival, very similar to Lyle Alzado once he was in Oakland. And with two other former Broncos' coaching rival teams? The addition of Dumervil would be freaking huge, and if Elway could not replace him with someone of reasonable caliber?

I don't like ugly situations, but this is F'n ugly and could be much uglier when all is said and done.

Northman
03-15-2013, 04:10 AM
I dont agree with any of this, hold out or contract pay drop.

I guess im one of the few left that think a contract is a contract and it should be honored. From either side.

If you cant meet the cost of what you offered, eat the loss and move on. Out of whack or not, the correct thing to have done was release him before free agency or suck it up and pay the guy.

Guess im crazy :(


Pretty much.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-15-2013, 08:01 AM
Doom got a fair contract. He's bent backwards for the organization and has been a stud pass rusher at 4-3 and 3-4. If he doesn't feel like taking a paycut, it can't be held against him.

I can't disagree with this post at all. I do agree with topper about it being the doing of the last regime, but it's not Elvis' fault that he was lucky enough to get his new deal when the market was at its peak (premium pass rushers were getting paid a ton during that time).

All I can say is, I really hope he stays. Hopefully, he realizes that he's got a great opportunity to play for a Championship right here in Denver at that will sway him a little. What I absolutely don't want to happen is for him to get scooped up by a division rival or worst of all, the Patriots. I could see them signing Doom to bolster their defense and as a little payback for Welker. It would make me physically ill to see him as a Charger, Raider, Patriot, or Steeler (who I could also see trying to make a play for him after cutting Harrison)...

HORSEPOWER 56
03-15-2013, 08:28 AM
NFLN is reporting that the Patriots are having Freeney in for a look. This could throw a monkey in Elway's wrench if we do decide to release Doom and the Pats sign Freeney. I have a feeling that Freeney is Elway's safety blanket if Doom leaves. If Freeney comes off the market, the available "value" FAs at DE is starting to dry up. I think Osi is looking for a pay day and we won't shell out for him, nor do we have a shot at Bennett.

We'll see.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 08:37 AM
NFLN is reporting that the Patriots are having Freeney in for a look. This could throw a monkey in Elway's wrench if we do decide to release Doom and the Pats sign Freeney. I have a feeling that Freeney is Elway's safety blanket if Doom leaves. If Freeney comes off the market, the available "value" FAs at DE is starting to dry up. I think Osi is looking for a pay day and we won't shell out for him, nor do we have a shot at Bennett.

We'll see.

Bennett already joined Avril in Seattle, so no...we dont have a shot at him.

broncofaninfla
03-15-2013, 08:53 AM
I'm starting to think Elways plan B for replacing Doom is already on our roster. I figured the Manning connection to Freeny made Freeny plan A to replace Doom but with NE courting him first I have to wonder. Malik Jackson and Derek Wolfe are versitle enough to play DE so that might be Elways plan B? Not sure but today will be telling.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 09:05 AM
I'm starting to think Elways plan B for replacing Doom is already on our roster. I figured the Manning connection to Freeny made Freeny plan A to replace Doom but with NE courting him first I have to wonder. Malik Jackson and Derek Wolfe are versitle enough to play DE so that might be Elways plan B? Not sure but today will be telling.

I think assuming Wolfe can be a 4-3 rush end on the right side would be a mistake. Jackson and Ayers are the likely Plan B's on the roster. Who knows how they'd pan out.

TXBRONC
03-15-2013, 09:07 AM
I'm starting to think Elways plan B for replacing Doom is already on our roster. I figured the Manning connection to Freeny made Freeny plan A to replace Doom but with NE courting him first I have to wonder. Malik Jackson and Derek Wolfe are versitle enough to play DE so that might be Elways plan B? Not sure but today will be telling.

If Freeney and Umenyoria are still available then those two are possibilities as well.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 09:09 AM
If Freeney and Umenyoria are still available then those two are possibilities as well.

I think Osi's history of being a locker room cancer will make him a last option for any team

broncofaninfla
03-15-2013, 09:17 AM
I think assuming Wolfe can be a 4-3 rush end on the right side would be a mistake. Jackson and Ayers are the likely Plan B's on the roster. Who knows how they'd pan out.

Right now it looks like RDE will be a position that we regress in after upgarding on others. While agree that $12 million is too much for Doom i sure wish both sides could have worked something out. I read this morning we are only $50k under the cap right now so it's a forgone conclusion that Doom is gone. Seems as if he would have agreed to a viable pay cut he would have done it by now.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 09:28 AM
Right now it looks like RDE will be a position that we regress in after upgarding on others. While agree that $12 million is too much for Doom i sure wish both sides could have worked something out. I read this morning we are only $50k under the cap right now so it's a forgone conclusion that Doom is gone. Seems as if he would have agreed to a viable pay cut he would have done it by now.

I would have to agree. I suppose that's where I get confused. He can see by the way the market is going that other DE's are getting shorter deals for less money. If he gets released, I dont know what has him convinced he will get something other than that...unless his agent already has a deal in place for him. But even then...anything close to what he is getting now is a severe over-payment.

HORSEPOWER 56
03-15-2013, 09:49 AM
Bennett already joined Avril in Seattle, so no...we dont have a shot at him.

Thanks, Coach. I missed that tidbit.

weazel
03-15-2013, 10:10 AM
well it doesnt look like Dumervil is going to be staying here and meanwhile Freeney is in New England.

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 10:11 AM
Well shit cancel the season.

rationalfan
03-15-2013, 10:28 AM
i think the subtext of the whole Dumervil situation is this: elway and co. don't think doom is as good as the fans do. not even close.

Ravage!!!
03-15-2013, 10:30 AM
I would have to agree. I suppose that's where I get confused. He can see by the way the market is going that other DE's are getting shorter deals for less money. If he gets released, I dont know what has him convinced he will get something other than that...unless his agent already has a deal in place for him. But even then...anything close to what he is getting now is a severe over-payment.

a lot of the time it doesn't have to do with the market. Players are human, and want to feel appreciated...... hence how/why we got Welker. Doom knows he has to take a pay cut, but wants to feel the organizations WANTS him here, and not simply taking him over another guy because he's already here. If he could get the "same amount" that is offered anywhere, then that's not exactly telling Doom that the Broncos appreciate what he's done here, and are willing to let another team have his services for the same price.

claymore
03-15-2013, 10:37 AM
a lot of the time it doesn't have to do with the market. Players are human, and want to feel appreciated...... hence how/why we got Welker. Doom knows he has to take a pay cut, but wants to feel the organizations WANTS him here, and not simply taking him over another guy because he's already here. If he could get the "same amount" that is offered anywhere, then that's not exactly telling Doom that the Broncos appreciate what he's done here, and are willing to let another team have his services for the same price.

on a side note... and I agree people want to be appreciated, but there are rumors the Amendola was signed before Welker was under contract here. On the radio this morning they were saying that Welker called us.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 10:37 AM
i think the subtext of the whole Dumervil situation is this: elway and co. don't think doom is as good as the fans do. not even close.

And I think they are completely correct. It's not like it's out of left field to think that fans really overrate players they like and don't look at things objectively. Elway tends to look at things objectively from what I have seen. He's not an idiot.

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 10:39 AM
Hypothetically, you would think & would just tell Doom, "Dude, here is a paycut, but we will guarantee it for two years." Avoids later dead money and he gets his even if he gets hurt again. I dunno. I am so freaking wrought with emotion today over this.

Northman
03-15-2013, 10:52 AM
Just tweeted Doom,, Told him he better stay and work it out. lol

rationalfan
03-15-2013, 10:52 AM
Hypothetically, you would think & would just tell Doom, "Dude, here is a paycut, but we will guarantee it for two years." Avoids later dead money and he gets his even if he gets hurt again. I dunno. I am so freaking wrought with emotion today over this.

but objectively, would you give that much guaranteed money to a guy who's getting older and isn't exactly the ideal physical specimen for his position?

i wouldn't. but, at the same time, doom has a history of succeeding when people expect failure. it is tough.

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 10:54 AM
but objectively, would you give that much guaranteed money to a guy who's getting older and isn't exactly the ideal physical specimen for his position?

i wouldn't. but, at the same time, doom has a history of succeeding when people expect failure. it is tough.

I agree. But the window is only so wide, and I think we need him. Just not at what he is making. But two years isn't all that much of a committment.

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 10:54 AM
Gawd I sound like BaileyTheBest. I am going to poop.

Ravage!!!
03-15-2013, 10:59 AM
on a side note... and I agree people want to be appreciated, but there are rumors the Amendola was signed before Welker was under contract here. On the radio this morning they were saying that Welker called us.

Still... Welker had been trying to get a deal done with Patriots the last two years. He obviously wasn't looking for TOP money, and the Patriots refused to work with him. They end up paying Amendola basically the same amount of money that they could have signed Welker for. Even though Amendola is younger, he hasn't done SQUAT for the Patriots and you just don't know if he ever will. Hence, wanting to feel appreciated and how we got Welker.

rationalfan
03-15-2013, 11:01 AM
perhaps i'm being too hopeful, but i don't think the team drops off too much with ayers playing full time end. the more he's on the field, the better he looks. i think his biggest problem was being forced into the OLB position in a 3-4. he just didn't fit the expectations. he looks much more natural as an end in the 4-3.

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:02 AM
YEa, your being hopeful. But if Doom gets cut we better pray Ayers steps up. But im not counting on it.

claymore
03-15-2013, 11:03 AM
Still... Welker had been trying to get a deal done with Patriots the last two years. He obviously wasn't looking for TOP money, and the Patriots refused to work with him. They end up paying Amendola basically the same amount of money that they could have signed Welker for. Even though Amendola is younger, he hasn't done SQUAT for the Patriots and you just don't know if he ever will. Hence, wanting to feel appreciated and how we got Welker.

I agree a 100%. Welker was "done dirty" IMO. We arent trying to do Elvis that way, we are just trying to align his pay with reality. No way should he be making 4 million per year more than the next best pass rusher. JMO.

TXBRONC
03-15-2013, 11:06 AM
i think the subtext of the whole Dumervil situation is this: elway and co. don't think doom is as good as the fans do. not even close.

That's not what I'm getting out what Elway has said.

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 11:09 AM
ELway said Doom's salary isn't even in the ballpark with his peers. He didn't really make a judgement on his play.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 11:16 AM
Seems to me like Elway has said they want him to stay and that he hopes Elvis sees what the realistic salary should be.

rationalfan
03-15-2013, 11:21 AM
but if doom was everything the broncos expected, do you think they'd even be in this situation?

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:25 AM
If they didnt think he was worth what he is getting they should of just cut him and allowed him to hit the market. But seeing how Manning is getting paid a lot more and not taking a pay cut himself i dont blame Doom one bit.

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:25 AM
but if doom was everything the broncos expected, do you think they'd even be in this situation?

Hard to say. Had they kept Doom as a LB he may very well have continued to be as good as he was when he got 17 sacks.

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 11:27 AM
but if doom was everything the broncos expected, do you think they'd even be in this situation?

Well, Elway and CO didn't do his previous contract. But I think his best years are probably behind him, which is where I want to be.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 11:29 AM
If they didnt think he was worth what he is getting they should of just cut him and allowed him to hit the market. But seeing how Manning is getting paid a lot more and not taking a pay cut himself i dont blame Doom one bit.

It's laughable to even compare the contracts of those two players. You get rid of Manning we aren't even a playoff contender. Get rid of Doom and we are still a SB contender. In addition, Manning makes the going rate of players at his position with his skill set. Doom does not.

Doom would be out of his mind if he's refusing to take a pay cut because Manning won't. If he's really that dumb then he deserves what he gets. (for the record though, I think he is smarter than that)

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:31 AM
It's laughable to even compare the contracts of those two players. You get rid of Manning we aren't even a playoff contender. Get rid of Doom and we are still a SB contender. In addition, Manning makes the going rate of players at his position with his skill set. Doom does not.

Doom would be out of his mind if he's refusing to take a pay cut because Manning won't. If he's really that dumb then he deserves what he gets. (for the record though, I think he is smarter than that)


As usual you missed the entire point of my post. I thought i had you on ignore?

claymore
03-15-2013, 11:33 AM
If they didnt think he was worth what he is getting they should of just cut him and allowed him to hit the market. But seeing how Manning is getting paid a lot more and not taking a pay cut himself i dont blame Doom one bit.

I can see him being mad that Bailey wasnt asked to reduce his pay, but not Manning.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 11:34 AM
If they didnt think he was worth what he is getting they should of just cut him and allowed him to hit the market. But seeing how Manning is getting paid a lot more and not taking a pay cut himself i dont blame Doom one bit.

I guess the question there is who earns their money more. The HOF QB breaking all of the team's single season passing records earning 20 mil...or the guy averaging less than 10 sacks a season (as a DE) making 12 mil?

In fact...I believe Doom actually made more money this past season than Manning did when you include his roster bonus.

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:35 AM
I can see him being mad that Bailey wasnt asked to reduce his pay, but not Manning.

Why? John and TD did it. And John was worth far more than Manning is.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 11:36 AM
I can see him being mad that Bailey wasnt asked to reduce his pay, but not Manning.

But Bailey's base is less than 10 mil...for a top 5 CB

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 11:36 AM
Why? John and TD did it. And John was worth far more than Manning is.

I'm curious. How did you come to this assessment?

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:36 AM
I guess the question there is who earns their money more. The HOF QB breaking all of the team's single season passing records earning 20 mil...or the guy averaging less than 10 sacks a season (as a DE) making 12 mil?

In fact...I believe Doom actually made more money this past season than Manning did when you include his roster bonus.

But thats not really the question though is it? The question is they are trying to make a serious SB run and need cap space. The last time the Broncos did it they did by having their star QB take a pay cut along with some others. I dont have a problem with them asking Doom to restructure, but when the mantra is to win a SB and yet your paying out the ass to one guy the request rings a bit hollow to me. The sad thing is John knows what it takes to win and yet is only asking one guy? Thats insulting to anyone.

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:37 AM
I'm curious. How did you come to this assessment?

My personal view.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 11:37 AM
As usual you missed the entire point of my post. I thought i had you on ignore?

You said you don't blame Doom for not taking a pay cut since Manning isn't. There aren't many ways to interpret that.

NightTerror218
03-15-2013, 11:40 AM
well Freeny is meeting with Patriots. If they strike an offer before Doom is released could answer questions

claymore
03-15-2013, 11:40 AM
Why? John and TD did it. And John was worth far more than Manning is.

Manning is a hired gun. This is Elway's City, same with TD. Hired guns dont give discounts.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 11:40 AM
But thats not really the question though is it? The question is they are trying to make a serious SB run and need cap space. The last time the Broncos did it they did by having their star QB take a pay cut along with some others. I dont have a problem with them asking Doom to restructure, but when the mantra is to win a SB and yet your paying out the ass to one guy the request rings a bit hollow to me. The sad thing is John knows what it takes to win and yet is only asking one guy? Thats insulting to anyone.

He's asking the one guy that is grossly overpaid. Manning was an MVP candidate and still isnt the highest paid QB. Champ is still a top 5 CB in many ways and his base is only 8 mil. Doom is the one whose salary is "out of whack". He's the one you talk to.

Even if Manning took a pay cut, you still have a 10 sack guy making 12 mil.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 11:42 AM
My personal view.

I think that's where this all get's skewed. People make it personal instead of seeing that it's a business.

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:42 AM
Lmao

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:42 AM
I think that's where this all get's skewed. People make it personal instead of seeing that it's a business.


Say what? The fact that i believe Elway to have been a better QB than Manning is buisness? How?

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 11:45 AM
Say what? The fact that i believe Elway to have been a better QB than Manning is buisness? How?

No...it's a personal assessment. There is no room for personal assessments when making a business decision. We could sit here all day long and discuss whether or not the Broncos could have won Super Bowls without Elway once he had a supporting cast...but that would all be based on personal speculation and VERY orange tinted glasses.

But leave the names and the teams out of it and there really isnt much of an argument for a player that averages less than 10 sacks as a DE to make 12 mil a year. The current market is proving that

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:48 AM
No...it's a personal assessment. There is no room for personal assessments when making a business decision. We could sit here all day long and discuss whether or not the Broncos could have won Super Bowls without Elway once he had a supporting cast...but that would all be based on personal speculation and VERY orange tinted glasses.

But leave the names and the teams out of it and there really isnt much of an argument for a player that averages less than 10 sacks as a DE to make 12 mil a year. The current market is proving that

Totally disagree but whatever. Im tired of talking in circles.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 11:52 AM
Totally disagree but whatever. Im tired of talking in circles.

Well...I think if he's cut, we'll see that the market wont even come close to 10 mil a year for him. Think Buffalo would give Mario Williams the same contract today? Not a chance. The cap is lower today than it was a few years ago and teams are having to be smarter.

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:54 AM
Well...I think if he's cut, we'll see that the market wont even come close to 10 mil a year for him. Think Buffalo would give Mario Williams the same contract today? Not a chance. The cap is lower today than it was a few years ago and teams are having to be smarter.

But thats hindsight.

Look what happened with Kruger and Ellebre. Thats not too say that Elvis would get a big contract but i think people are really naive to think that he wouldnt. He's far more proven than those two guys and yet teams payed out the ass for them. Chances are with only so much time left he is good as gone and im disappointed and angry about it. And yes, i think it will come back to bite us in the ass.

Slick
03-15-2013, 11:55 AM
If Champ and Manning want to win as badly as I think they do, why couldn't they sacrifice a million or a million and a half each if they think keeping Doom helps give the team the best chance to make another run for the trophy?

Northman
03-15-2013, 11:56 AM
If Champ and Manning want to win as badly as I think they do, why couldn't they sacrifice a million or a million and a half each if they think keeping Doom helps give the team the best chance to make another run for the trophy?


How dare you ask that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 What the **** are you thinking!

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 12:01 PM
If Champ and Manning want to win as badly as I think they do, why couldn't they sacrifice a million or a million and a half each if they think keeping Doom helps give the team the best chance to make another run for the trophy?

Manning makes top 5 QB money for being a top 5 QB...Champ makes top 5 CB money for being a top 5 CB...Elvis makes top 5 DE money for being a top 10-12 DE. You do the math

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 12:02 PM
If Champ and Manning want to win as badly as I think they do, why couldn't they sacrifice a million or a million and a half each if they think keeping Doom helps give the team the best chance to make another run for the trophy?

Okay, well, if Doom was a team player, shouldn't he cut his salary?

I don't think Doom is going to chance our chances much this season. We will plug a cheaper dude in there with a little less production on sacks and hurries, but we can adjust.

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:03 PM
Okay, well, if Doom was a team player, shouldn't he cut his salary?

.

He might be more willing had he seen some of the other guys do it. That was Slick's (and mine) point.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 12:04 PM
But thats hindsight.

Look what happened with Kruger and Ellebre. Thats not too say that Elvis would get a big contract but i think people are really naive to think that he wouldnt. He's far more proven than those two guys and yet teams payed out the ass for them. Chances are with only so much time left he is good as gone and im disappointed and angry about it. And yes, i think it will come back to bite us in the ass.

Most "experts" actually thought Kruger would get more...but didnt. And Miami is having to overpay everyone to come there. They just paid over 4 mil for a TE that had 28 catches last year. Jeff Ireland is an idiot...John Elway is not

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 12:06 PM
He might be more willing had he seen some of the other guys do it. That was Slick's (and mine) point.

But comparitively speaking...and based on value...those other guys shouldnt have to do it. Their salaries are in line with their performances

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:06 PM
Most "experts" actually thought Kruger would get more...but didnt. And Miami is having to overpay everyone to come there. They just paid over 4 mil for a TE that had 28 catches last year. Jeff Ireland is an idiot...John Elway is not

Yes, but we were talking about Doom getting contracts outside of Denver. THere are plenty of teams that would pay him crazy amounts of money.

claymore
03-15-2013, 12:06 PM
He might be more willing had he seen some of the other guys do it. That was Slick's (and mine) point.

I agree with Bailey taking a pay cut, but Im still bitter over the Baltimore game.

Ziggy
03-15-2013, 12:07 PM
Plan B may actually be Datone Jones or Margus Hunt.

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 12:07 PM
He might be more willing had he seen some of the other guys do it. That was Slick's (and mine) point.

Chris Harris is underpaid. Lets change that also.

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:08 PM
But comparitively speaking...and based on value...those other guys shouldnt have to do it. Their salaries are in line with their performances

Lol,

Chaz. Seriously. Elway and TD didnt have to do it but did. They all had a goal in mind and made a decision that was both cost effective and gave them the best chance to win a title. Doom doesnt have to do anything either, he got paid his worth at the time that he signed the contract. Its not his fault he was taken out of that position and expected to do the same.

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 12:08 PM
Yes, but we were talking about Doom getting contracts outside of Denver. THere are plenty of teams that would pay him crazy amounts of money.

And they will go 6-10 and be doing the same thing me and you are doing in January.

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:08 PM
Chris Harris is underpaid. Lets change that also.

Next year.

Slick
03-15-2013, 12:08 PM
They could all take just a little less for the good of the team. Including Doom. That's all I'm saying. It's not like they won't be able to feed their families if Champ only made 7.5 and Peyton made 18.5. And Doom made say 9. This isnt golf or tennis.

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:09 PM
And they will go 6-10 and be doing the same thing me and you are doing in January.

Not really. Doom's contract isnt outrageous as some of you have implied. While its true that we are close to the cap its not like Doom's contract is breaking the bank here.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 12:09 PM
Yes, but we were talking about Doom getting contracts outside of Denver. THere are plenty of teams that would pay him crazy amounts of money.

Is there a team that would pay him over his value? Probably. Does that make it right? No. I still dont see him getting more than 8-9 a year at most.

Look at the teams that are over-paying players. They suck. They have to pay more to get them there. It's always been that way in every sport

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 12:11 PM
Not really. Doom's contract isnt outrageous as some of you have implied. While its true that we are close to the cap its not like Doom's contract is breaking the bank here.

Elway disagrees. And he has been very matter of fact and non-emo about it.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 12:12 PM
Lol,

Chaz. Seriously. Elway and TD didnt have to do it but did. They all had a goal in mind and made a decision that was both cost effective and gave them the best chance to win a title. Doom doesnt have to do anything either, he got paid his worth at the time that he signed the contract. Its not his fault he was taken out of that position and expected to do the same.

That's fine. Then he'll be cut. He'll then go to a bad team and make 9 mil and never see the playoffs, or he'll go to a good team and make 7 mil. In the meantime, Elway will continue to do what he's been doing and find an adequate replacement and Denver will still be a SB contender. I'm good with that.

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:12 PM
Elway disagrees. And he has been very matter of fact and non-emo about it.


We dont know that.

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:13 PM
That's fine. Then he'll be cut. He'll then go to a bad team and make 9 mil and never see the playoffs, or he'll go to a good team and make 7 mil. In the meantime, Elway will continue to do what he's been doing and find an adequate replacement and Denver will still be a SB contender. I'm good with that.

We hope anyway.

MOtorboat
03-15-2013, 12:13 PM
They could all take just a little less for the good of the team. Including Doom. That's all I'm saying. It's not like they won't be able to feed their families if Champ only made 7.5 and Peyton made 18.5. And Doom made say 9. This isnt golf or tennis.

Latrell Sprewell disagrees.

He's got to feed his family.

claymore
03-15-2013, 12:14 PM
That's fine. Then he'll be cut. He'll then go to a bad team and make 9 mil and never see the playoffs, or he'll go to a good team and make 7 mil. In the meantime, Elway will continue to do what he's been doing and find an adequate replacement and Denver will still be a SB contender. I'm good with that.

He will go to a team, and be asked to take a pay cut next year. He wouldnt have gotten 12 sacks this year without Von Miller.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 12:14 PM
Not really. Doom's contract isnt outrageous as some of you have implied. While its true that we are close to the cap its not like Doom's contract is breaking the bank here.

Seattle just signed Michael Bennett AND Cliff Avril for the cost of one Elvis Dumervil. Yes...his contract is "out of Whack"

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 12:15 PM
We hope anyway.

Doom does not make or break this team

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:15 PM
*Yawn*

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 12:18 PM
Doom does not make or break this team

And even if we do cut Doom we still have a better roster than last year with all that we have brought in in free agency.

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 12:20 PM
We dont know that.

He said so yesterday.

Slick
03-15-2013, 12:22 PM
He will go to a team, and be asked to take a pay cut next year. He wouldnt have gotten 12 sacks this year without Von Miller.

Von wouldnt have done what he did without Elvis either. Look, I'm not one of these guys who think Doom is the end all be all. I just don't think his replacement will be as good. I could be wrong. I guess we'll find out in a few hours.

BeefStew25
03-15-2013, 12:23 PM
Von wouldnt have done what he did without Elvis either. Look, I'm not one of these guys who think Doom is the end all be all. I just don't think his replacement will be as good. I could be wrong. I guess we'll find out in a few hours.

I don't think so either, but Doom isn't worth his contract. Elway will play a dude that is.

Listen, I make $18,000 a year, and I am worth every single freaking penny!

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 12:24 PM
Elvis averages 10.5 sacks a year in his career without Miller on the other side. He averages 10.25 with Miller on the other side. People REALLY overrate the effect that a pass rusher has on a pass rusher on the other side of the line. This isn't an Aldon Smith/Justin Smith type situation.

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:24 PM
He said so yesterday.

No, you dont know if he went emo about it. He could of been very whiny behind closed doors.

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:24 PM
I don't think so either, but Doom isn't worth his contract. Elway will play a dude that is.

Listen, I make $18,000 a year, and I am worth every single freaking penny!

Thats bullshit. Your worth half that. Talk about being overpaid.

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:25 PM
Von wouldnt have done what he did without Elvis either. Look, I'm not one of these guys who think Doom is the end all be all. I just don't think his replacement will be as good. I could be wrong. I guess we'll find out in a few hours.

Your not wrong.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 12:26 PM
Von wouldnt have done what he did without Elvis either. Look, I'm not one of these guys who think Doom is the end all be all. I just don't think his replacement will be as good. I could be wrong. I guess we'll find out in a few hours.

I have a hard time giving players on opposite sides of the line credit based on what each other has done. I base that on what I see and some things I've read from NFL personnel, so who knows if I'm right or wrong. If Miller benefits from anyone being a rush LB, it's Wolfe or whoever is lined up at end on his side. Example: look at what Aldon Smith did the last few games last year without Justin Smith in front of him...NOTHING. It didnt matter what was going on over on the left side of the line.

So, I think Von still gets his 15+ sacks whether Doom is here or not. It's a luxury to have the other pass rusher.

claymore
03-15-2013, 12:26 PM
Von wouldnt have done what he did without Elvis either. Look, I'm not one of these guys who think Doom is the end all be all. I just don't think his replacement will be as good. I could be wrong. I guess we'll find out in a few hours.

I think Von would have a very similar season without Doom. He was double teamed and chipped every play. Doom was not. Even if Dooms replacement is half as good, he will still be a third of the cost.

MOtorboat
03-15-2013, 12:26 PM
Your not wrong.

*You're

Northman
03-15-2013, 12:28 PM
*You're

Thanks

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 01:07 PM
This who Dumervil situation is a classic example of how fans freak out and overreact when it comes to players who are fan-favorites. Just look at crappy front offices like Washington who throw money around willy-nilly at players and look at where that usually gets them.

I am extremely thankful to have a guy like John Elway running this team who absolutely gets it. This is the exact same way perennial contenders like the Pats, Giants, and Steelers operate. Don't overpay players, and especially vets whose best days are likely behind them.

While Dumervil is certainly an asset to the team, we are still a very strong Super Bowl contender without him. We'd all like him at less money, but I'm not going to lose a second of sleep if he's too stubborn to restructure and we cut his ass. Hope he has fun getting his big contract with some shitty team that will go 5-11 next year.

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:09 PM
This who Dumervil situation is a classic example of how fans freak out and overreact when it comes to players who are fan-favorites. Just look at crappy front offices like Washington who throw money around willy-nilly at players and look at where that usually gets them.

I am extremely thankful to have a guy like John Elway running this team who absolutely gets it. This is the exact same way perennial contenders like the Pats, Giants, and Steelers operate. Don't overpay players, and especially vets whose best days are likely behind them.

While Dumervil is certainly an asset to the team, we are still a very strong Super Bowl contender without him. We'd all like him at less money, but I'm not going to lose a second of sleep if he's too stubborn to restructure and we cut his ass. Hope he has fun getting his big contract with some shitty team that will go 5-11 next year.

Unless he signs with the Pats, Niners, or Ravens. lmao

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 01:10 PM
Unless he signs with the Pats. lmao

If he lets the team cut him instead of restructuring, I think that proves pretty well he's more about the money than winning at this point. The Pats aren't going to overpay him either. To get the money he is looking for he will have to go to a team like the Dolphins who are throwing around money like it's going out of style.

claymore
03-15-2013, 01:11 PM
This who Dumervil situation is a classic example of how fans freak out and overreact when it comes to players who are fan-favorites. Just look at crappy front offices like Washington who throw money around willy-nilly at players and look at where that usually gets them.

I am extremely thankful to have a guy like John Elway running this team who absolutely gets it. This is the exact same way perennial contenders like the Pats, Giants, and Steelers operate. Don't overpay players, and especially vets whose best days are likely behind them.

While Dumervil is certainly an asset to the team, we are still a very strong Super Bowl contender without him. We'd all like him at less money, but I'm not going to lose a second of sleep if he's too stubborn to restructure and we cut his ass. Hope he has fun getting his big contract with some shitty team that will go 5-11 next year.

The part that hurts the most is that he is going to take a paycut regardless of the situation. His big payday is in the rearview mirror. Whatever he gets from another team is most likely what we are offering.

LTC Pain
03-15-2013, 01:11 PM
Ayers needs to man up. I think he will.

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:12 PM
Ayers needs to man up. I think he will.

Lmao

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 01:12 PM
The part that hurts the most is that he is going to take a paycut regardless of the situation. His big payday is in the rearview mirror. Whatever he gets from another team is most likely what we are offering.

He might get a little more from a desperate team trying to throw money at big time free agents, but I agree he certainly won't get another mega deal like what he has now.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 01:13 PM
Unless he signs with the Pats, Niners, or Ravens. lmao

None of which have the space to sign him for anything over 7 mil and all of which run a 3-4, which Doom has openly stated he HATES playing in.

Try again

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:14 PM
None of which have the space to sign him for anything over 7 mil and all of which run a 3-4, which Doom has openly stated he HATES playing in.

Try again


Actually, i said that in response to BTB's idea that he wont land a contender. Thats just not the case, he may very well take different money and still land on a contender.

Ziggy
03-15-2013, 01:15 PM
If Doom's contract were in line with his talent, the Broncos would have had teams lining up to make a trade.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 01:16 PM
Actually, i said that in response to BTB's idea that he wont land a contender. Thats just not the case, he may very well take different money and still land on a contender.

He won't get a contender to pay him any more than Denver is offering, I can guarantee you that. Maybe he decides to stick it to Denver and sign with the Pats for less out of spite, but if he's really all about the money like I think he is, then I see him going to a crappy team that will overpay him.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 01:16 PM
If Doom's contract were in line with his talent, the Broncos would have had teams lining up to make a trade.

Good point. If even one other team in the NFL valued him the same way some of our fans do, he'd be traded away by now.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 01:19 PM
Actually, i said that in response to BTB's idea that he wont land a contender. Thats just not the case, he may very well take different money and still land on a contender.

Which one? Let's look at the list

Atlanta - no cap room
Green Bay - 3-4
Washington - no cap room
NY Giants - limited cap room, money will go to Cruz
Chicago - no need
Seattle - just signed 3 DL
SF - no cap room, 3-4
NE - might have cap space, 3-4
Pittsburgh - 3-4
Houston - no cap room, 3-4
Cincy - No need
Balt - no cap room, 3-4

My guess is his best shot would be Tampa and they are nowhere close to being ready to seriously contend

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:20 PM
He won't get a contender to pay him any more than Denver is offering, I can guarantee you that. Maybe he decides to stick it to Denver and sign with the Pats for less out of spite,

Exactly.

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:21 PM
Which one? Let's look at the list

Atlanta - no cap room
Green Bay - 3-4
Washington - no cap room
NY Giants - limited cap room, money will go to Cruz
Chicago - no need
Seattle - just signed 3 DL
SF - no cap room, 3-4
NE - might have cap space, 3-4
Pittsburgh - 3-4
Houston - no cap room, 3-4
Cincy - No need
Balt - no cap room, 3-4

My guess is his best shot would be Tampa and they are nowhere close to being ready to seriously contend

You forget, Doom played his best in a 3-4.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 01:24 PM
You forget, Doom played his best in a 3-4.

You forget he almost asked for a trade when we switched to the 3-4 and was very vocal in his excitement that Fox was bringing back the 4-3. He also only played one year in it and couldnt play the run or cover and that was 4 years ago.

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:27 PM
You forget he almost asked for a trade when we switched to the 3-4 and was very vocal in his excitement that Fox was bringing back the 4-3. He also only played one year in it and couldnt play the run or cover and that was 4 years ago.

YOu have a link to that? I dont remember that at all. But even if true he may be open to do it again considering he had his best year sack wise with it.

Dzone
03-15-2013, 01:28 PM
Ok, so its 12:30 MT. No word yet? well shit...I am working today and busting my ass and I keep checking during breaks to see if Elvis is going to take 7 million or 12 million or be GONE!

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 01:29 PM
YOu have a link to that? I dont remember that at all. But even if true he may be open to do it again considering he had his best year sack wise with it.

Do you think teams are going to pay him 10-12 mil to play a position he hasnt played in 4 years while pushing 30? Somehow I seriously doubt that...but who knows. As long as it isnt Denver.

I'll have to research and find the quotes

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:31 PM
Ok, so its 12:30 MT. No word yet? well shit...I am working today and busting my ass and I keep checking during breaks to see if Elvis is going to take 7 million or 12 million or be GONE!

Bascially what im doing. Waiting for the axe to fall.

Poet
03-15-2013, 01:32 PM
Doom sure would look good in Cincinnati.

Ravage!!!
03-15-2013, 01:34 PM
He won't get a contender to pay him any more than Denver is offering, I can guarantee you that. Maybe he decides to stick it to Denver and sign with the Pats for less out of spite, but if he's really all about the money like I think he is, then I see him going to a crappy team that will overpay him.

I hate this crap. Nearly EVERY PLAYER IN THE NFL is about the money. The owners and GMs are about the money.... and sometimes that money, is purely about feeling respected and/or appreciated. This BS crap of "ife he's really all about the money"... thats 99% of the NFL, and that's 100% of the owners. Don't make it sound as if Doom is some kind of "selfish" player purely because he's trying to get the most money that he can get in an open market.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 01:35 PM
Doom sure would look good in Cincinnati.

Where? You already have a stout line with Atkins and Johnson and Gilberry and Dunlap is progressing nicely. Why dump any of them to turn around and spend 10 mil for 10 sacks...which will likely be less on that line

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:35 PM
Doom sure would look good in Cincinnati.

Dont mess with my emotions King......

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:36 PM
I hate this crap. Nearly EVERY PLAYER IN THE NFL is about the money. The owners and GMs are about the money.... and sometimes that money, is purely about feeling respected and/or appreciated. This BS crap of "ife he's really all about the money"... thats 99% of the NFL, and that's 100% of the owners. Don't make it sound as if Doom is some kind of "selfish" player purely because he's trying to get the most money that he can get in an open market.

Manning was definitely about the money.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 01:37 PM
I hate this crap. Nearly EVERY PLAYER IN THE NFL is about the money. The owners and GMs are about the money.... and sometimes that money, is purely about feeling respected and/or appreciated. This BS crap of "ife he's really all about the money"... thats 99% of the NFL, and that's 100% of the owners. Don't make it sound as if Doom is some kind of "selfish" player purely because he's trying to get the most money that he can get in an open market.

I completely agree and often share this exact sentiment on this board. You totally misunderstood where I was coming from though.

If he is all about the money, that's perfectly fine and I don't fault him for it at all. I did not call him selfish at all and you are putting words in my mouth by saying so.

If he wants to be greedy that's fine, but I have no problem with Elway showing him the door either since that greed isn't good for our team.

Ravage!!!
03-15-2013, 01:38 PM
Manning was definitely about the money.

He just got a HUGE bonus purely to pass a physical.... another 40 million? Ok!

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 01:38 PM
Per Vic Lombardi:

"Broncos have their final offer on the table for Elvis. In 90 minutes, we'll know if he accepts."

gregbroncs
03-15-2013, 01:38 PM
Doom sure would look good in Cincinnati.Yea but for how much? I'll bet it won't be for 12 Million. And if it's less than 8 he is better off where he is at.

Poet
03-15-2013, 01:39 PM
Dont mess with my emotions King......

Look, I like Doom. I like the Broncos, a distant second of course. But if it doesn't work out, Doom could be the man in Cincinnati.

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:39 PM
Look, I like Doom. I like the Broncos, a distant second of course. But if it doesn't work out, Doom could be the man in Cincinnati.

I agree. You would be getting a very good player.

claymore
03-15-2013, 01:41 PM
He has to much character to sign with Cinci. :|

Ravage!!!
03-15-2013, 01:43 PM
I completely agree and often share this exact sentiment on this board. You totally misunderstood where I was coming from though.

If he is all about the money, that's perfectly fine and I don't fault him for it at all. I did not call him selfish at all and you are putting words in my mouth by saying so.

If he wants to be greedy that's fine, but I have no problem with Elway showing him the door either since that greed isn't good for our team.

"If he's all about the money like I think he is"... and "signs for another team for less money out of spite".. is not exactly complimenting him. Its throwing darts at him for believing he's worth more than being offered....ESPECIALLY a guy that was already making more than he's getting paid. You guys want to attack a player for "not being worth that much"...but then don't ever consider how ANYONE likes to have the same company and asks them to take a big pay cut to do the SAME work. Not like they are going to ask Doom to do less or work less.

Look, I get that you dont think Doom is worth the cash he's being paid, and that's fine. But the jabs are just irritating to read. If that's how you feel about it, ok. But let's not be disingenuous with what you are doing, and that's taking pot shots at a guy for wanting more money... or how you call it.... "that greed."

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 01:44 PM
Look, I like Doom. I like the Broncos, a distant second of course. But if it doesn't work out, Doom could be the man in Cincinnati.

But he'd have to replace Dunlap or Johnson by adding age and money. Until you get a long term deal done with Johnson, it makes no sense to chase Dumervil

Northman
03-15-2013, 01:45 PM
"If he's all about the money like I think he is"... and "signs for another team for less money out of spite".. is not exactly complimenting him. Its throwing darts at him for believing he's worth more than being offered....ESPECIALLY a guy that was already making more than he's getting paid. You guys want to attack a player for "not being worth that much"...but then don't ever consider how ANYONE likes to have the same company and asks them to take a big pay cut to do the SAME work. Not like they are going to ask Doom to do less or work less.

Look, I get that you dont think Doom is worth the cash he's being paid, and that's fine. But the jabs are just irritating to read. If that's how you feel about it, ok. But let's not be disingenuous with what you are doing, and that's taking pot shots at a guy for wanting more money... or how you call it.... "that greed."


/Haters

Signed,
MO

Ravage!!!
03-15-2013, 01:48 PM
We've seen a lot of players sign with different teams for the same money as they were being offered because the team they had been with for a while didnt' make them feel as if they WANTED them. I'll refer again..... ask the very WR we just got on how that works. Wes Welker didn't feel WANTED by Belicheck, and thus signed with a Manning led team. Its not like the new guy got a lot less money than Welker would have signed for, and its not like the Patriots got the better end of that deal.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 01:48 PM
"If he's all about the money like I think he is"... and "signs for another team for less money out of spite".. is not exactly complimenting him. Its throwing darts at him for believing he's worth more than being offered....ESPECIALLY a guy that was already making more than he's getting paid. You guys want to attack a player for "not being worth that much"...but then don't ever consider how ANYONE likes to have the same company and asks them to take a big pay cut to do the SAME work. Not like they are going to ask Doom to do less or work less.

Look, I get that you dont think Doom is worth the cash he's being paid, and that's fine. But the jabs are just irritating to read. If that's how you feel about it, ok. But let's not be disingenuous with what you are doing, and that's taking pot shots at a guy for wanting more money... or how you call it.... "that greed."

I think this is where most of us stand...period.

Ravage!!!
03-15-2013, 01:52 PM
I think this is where most of us stand...period.

That's fine. But this team is BETTER with him on it. We just handed out 40 million to a guy that passed a physical, and if you think we will replace Doom's ability to take attention off of Miller that easily, purely based on the cash (as if its moneyball), I think you are wrong. I GET that some of you don't think he's worth that kind of money, and he's willing to restructure....but taking a pay cut doesn't go well with ANYONE.

That beind said, Doom will probably sign with another team. It might be for the very same, or less money than offered here. But THIS team will be less without him at the RDE, and that's something I don't like to see when our window of taking home the Trophy is built to win NOW.

Poet
03-15-2013, 01:53 PM
But he'd have to replace Dunlap or Johnson by adding age and money. Until you get a long term deal done with Johnson, it makes no sense to chase Dumervil

He would be a starter for us most likely. Zimmer runs a rotation and he also likes to run some 3-4 sets as well. In that 3-4 situation, Peko would be the NT, Atkins and Dunlap are on the line. We would have Doom and Michael Johnson on the outside and Burfict and the new guy that we draft or Maualuga, if we resign him in the middle.

That would be retarded good. I know we won't get him because we just gave Gilberry some dough, but it would make the Bengals that much tougher.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 01:53 PM
"If he's all about the money like I think he is"... and "signs for another team for less money out of spite".. is not exactly complimenting him. Its throwing darts at him for believing he's worth more than being offered....ESPECIALLY a guy that was already making more than he's getting paid. You guys want to attack a player for "not being worth that much"...but then don't ever consider how ANYONE likes to have the same company and asks them to take a big pay cut to do the SAME work. Not like they are going to ask Doom to do less or work less.

Look, I get that you dont think Doom is worth the cash he's being paid, and that's fine. But the jabs are just irritating to read. If that's how you feel about it, ok. But let's not be disingenuous with what you are doing, and that's taking pot shots at a guy for wanting more money... or how you call it.... "that greed."

No, I'm not complimenting him, but I'm not insulting him either. I'm just calling it like I see it. I do think he is greedy and all about the money, but I don't have a problem with it. I'd probably be just as greedy if I were in his position.

Having said that though, I think he is overvaluing himself and if that's the stance he wants to take, Elway should cut him.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 01:54 PM
That's fine. But this team is BETTER with him on it. We just handed out 40 million to a guy that passed a physical, and if you think we will replace Doom's ability to take attention off of Miller that easily, purely based on the cash (as if its moneyball), I think you are wrong. I GET that some of you don't think he's worth that kind of money, and he's willing to restructure....but taking a pay cut doesn't go well with ANYONE.

That beind said, Doom will probably sign with another team. It might be for the very same, or less money than offered here. But THIS team will be less without him at the RDE, and that's something I don't like to see when our window of taking home the Trophy is built to win NOW.

Given what we have just added in free agency, we would still be a better team than last year even without Dumervil.

Ravage!!!
03-15-2013, 01:58 PM
Given what we have just added in free agency, we would still be a better team than last year even without Dumervil.

That has NOTHING to do with what I just said.

Denver Native (Carol)
03-15-2013, 01:59 PM
I would assume his agent is taking calls from other teams to see if their offers are better than the Broncos.

Dzone
03-15-2013, 02:02 PM
We will win next year with or without him damnit. They are going to take this down to the last minute. Theres an hour to go. Hope he stays, but if not, fine.
If he stays with Denver, there should be several new threads started! LOL

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 02:02 PM
That has NOTHING to do with what I just said.

Sorry you are looking at it from such a narrow view then. Dumervil is just one player. Our team OVERALL, is far more stacked than it was last year. If we do cut Doom, our team has still improved overall from where we sat a week ago.

Elway is doing the same thing all the good NFL teams do. Not overpaying players, and especially ones entering their 30s.

Poet
03-15-2013, 02:06 PM
Your team was really good last year and Doom played a key part on your defense.

Your team got better this year on paper. It is safe to project improvement based on that. But by getting rid of Doom, you do negate some of which you gained.

From a broader vantage point, is that just as fair?

Lancane
03-15-2013, 02:07 PM
Sorry you are looking at it from such a narrow view then. Dumervil is just one player. Our team OVERALL, is far more stacked than it was last year. If we do cut Doom, our team has still improved overall from where we sat a week ago.

Elway is doing the same thing all the good NFL teams do. Not overpaying players, and especially ones entering their 30s.

You say that now, but if they sign Freeney or Osi, even Abraham for more then 5 million they are overpaying!

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 02:07 PM
Bill Bellichick gets bashed every single year for letting good players go instead of paying them, and yet every year they are still competitive. Good teams don't overpay players. It's really as simple as that.

Ravage!!!
03-15-2013, 02:08 PM
Sorry you are looking at it from such a narrow view then. Dumervil is just one player. Our team OVERALL, is far more stacked than it was last year. If we do cut Doom, our team has still improved overall from where we sat a week ago.

Elway is going the same thing all the good NFL teams do. Not overpaying players, and especially ones entering their 30s.

Once again, someone has to explain to you what is being said.


Here, let me try to make it simple for you.


If we are better today, compared to last year, than we were 1 week ago. Then I could very easily say that if we cut Doom, we are worse today than we were yesterday. Worse is worse, either way.

Poet
03-15-2013, 02:09 PM
Bill Bellichick gets bashed every single year for letting good players go instead of paying them, and yet every year they are still competitive. Good teams don't overpay players. It's really as simple as that.

But he lets guys go on their decline. He also then spanks other teams in trades. It's a bit more involved than him just cutting guys. Also, it's not like every move he made worked out. He let Samuels and Seymour go, and the next year their defense suffered for it. I'm not saying that the moves weren't smart, but it's the truth. He also would sign a bunch of veterans to fill gaps, with mostly positive results.

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:09 PM
Your team was really good last year and Doom played a key part on your defense.

Your team got better this year on paper. It is safe to project improvement based on that. But by getting rid of Doom, you do negate some of which you gained.

From a broader vantage point, is that just as fair?

Bingo.

It still remains to be seen if those newly signed players work out or not.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:10 PM
That's fine. But this team is BETTER with him on it. We just handed out 40 million to a guy that passed a physical, and if you think we will replace Doom's ability to take attention off of Miller that easily, purely based on the cash (as if its moneyball), I think you are wrong. I GET that some of you don't think he's worth that kind of money, and he's willing to restructure....but taking a pay cut doesn't go well with ANYONE.

That beind said, Doom will probably sign with another team. It might be for the very same, or less money than offered here. But THIS team will be less without him at the RDE, and that's something I don't like to see when our window of taking home the Trophy is built to win NOW.

I agree we are better with him on the team. But from a business standpoint, he is not worth the money he is being paid and if we can get 2/3 of his production for half the price...I'm okay with that.

Where I disagree is that he takes all that much attention off of Miller. In fact, I think it's just the opposite...but I guess that's another discussion.

The restructure doesnt help as much in the long run, so a cut is all that is left.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 02:10 PM
Once again, someone has to explain to you what is being said.


Here, let me try to make it simple for you.


If we are better today, compared to last year, than we were 1 week ago. Then I could very easily say that if we cut Doom, we are worse today than we were yesterday. Worse is worse, either way.

Your point is irrelevant. I don't care if we are better than we were yesterday. As long as we are better on opening day than we were at the end of last season (which we undoubtably will be) then I don't really care how we got there. Elway did his job.

Lancane
03-15-2013, 02:10 PM
Bill Bellichick gets bashed every single year for letting good players go instead of paying them, and yet every year they are still competitive. Good teams don't overpay players. It's really as simple as that.

Then according to you the Patriots are the only good team, all teams overpay somewhere...which is a simple fact. I understand your point though, and I would agree - but we have no one that will equal his production on the roster, and I don't believe that Freeney, Abraham or Osi is really the answer either.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 02:12 PM
Then according to you the Patriots are the only good team, all teams overpay somewhere...which is a simple fact. I understand your point though, and I would agree - but we have no one that will equal his production on the roster, and I don't believe that Freeney, Abraham or Osi is really the answer either.

The Pats are just one example. Just look around the league this year at all the good teams who have cut good players. This is happening all over the league.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:12 PM
Then according to you the Patriots are the only good team, all teams overpay somewhere...which is a simple fact. I understand your point though, and I would agree - but we have no one that will equal his production on the roster, and I don't believe that Freeney, Abraham or Osi is really the answer either.

That's what it comes down to for all of us. Unfortunately, what we believe doesnt matter and usually doesnt translate into any kind of evidence

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:14 PM
Then according to you the Patriots are the only good team, all teams overpay somewhere...which is a simple fact. I understand your point though, and I would agree - but we have no one that will equal his production on the roster, and I don't believe that Freeney, Abraham or Osi is really the answer either.

Exactly.

BroncoWave
03-15-2013, 02:14 PM
Well, you guys have fun going crazy over this. I'm about to catch a flight to Vegas for the weekend. I'm anxious to see what happens. See you guys on the other side!

Poet
03-15-2013, 02:15 PM
Well, you guys have fun going crazy over this. I'm about to catch a flight to Vegas for the weekend. I'm anxious to see what happens. See you guys on the other side!

Enjoy your weekend!

NightTerror218
03-15-2013, 02:15 PM
Well, you guys have fun going crazy over this. I'm about to catch a flight to Vegas for the weekend. I'm anxious to see what happens. See you guys on the other side!

dont try to slip extra money on to the table, they frown on that.

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:15 PM
I hope he has sex with a tranny.

Poet
03-15-2013, 02:17 PM
I hope he has sex with a tranny.

What if he's the tranny?

NightTerror218
03-15-2013, 02:18 PM
What if he's the tranny?

tranny on tranny, gay guys or lesbians?

Poet
03-15-2013, 02:18 PM
tranny on tranny, gay or lesbian?

Yes.

Lancane
03-15-2013, 02:19 PM
The Pats are just one example. Just look around the league this year at all the good teams who have cut good players. This is happening all over the league.

True, but looking at who are the most likely challengers for a Championship...I'd say Seattle and San Francisco have done well, Indianapolis is making smart moves and has improved, while Miami and Cincinnati are also improving. If we lose a key part of our defensive front and risk such with someone that has questions whether due to injury, age or character, then it's quite easy to say the team is not as improved as you believe and enough so that anyone of the aforementioned can take use down off our ivory thrones.

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:19 PM
tranny on tranny, gay guys or lesbians?

For BTB its definitely gay guys.

rationalfan
03-15-2013, 02:19 PM
if we admire teams like the ravens, packers and steelers, teams that build through the draft, make smart choices in FA and continue to win year after year. and we want the broncos to use that model, then we can't complain when the broncos let go of overpriced players that might be fan favorites. it's the business model. and it's proven to work.

(for the record, i think what elway is doing doesn't really mirror any team's front office philosophy. he's doing his own thing, and doing it well.)

NightTerror218
03-15-2013, 02:20 PM
True, but looking at who are the most likely challengers for a Championship...I'd say Seattle and San Francisco have done well, Indianapolis is making smart moves and has improved, while Miami and Cincinnati are also improving. If we lose a key part of our defensive front and risk such with someone that has questions whether due to injury, age or character, then it's quite easy to say the team is not as improved as you believe and enough so that anyone of the aforementioned can take use down off our ivory thrones.

you do not cut if you do not have a reliable replacement, such as a younger player ready to go.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:20 PM
True, but looking at who are the most likely challengers for a Championship...I'd say Seattle and San Francisco have done well, Indianapolis is making smart moves and has improved, while Miami and Cincinnati are also improving. If we lose a key part of our defensive front and risk such with someone that has questions whether due to injury, age or character, then it's quite easy to say the team is not as improved as you believe and enough so that anyone of the aforementioned can take use down off our ivory thrones.


I would disagree with Indy. They are WAY over-spending for mid-level talent.

Dzone
03-15-2013, 02:21 PM
Maybe Dumervil is getting some bad advice from his agent.
Ok, so wikipedia says his name is Elvis Kool Dumervil..Is Kool his middle name or nickname? Ive never heard him called Kool. Did his parents name him Elvis Kool?
Anyway, lets see how long it takes wikipedia to change his status from Bronco to FA...Lets take some bets on this, we have 45 minutes. I am going to say.....?????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Dumervil
PS- How much did Elvis get paid for the year he missed?

Lancane
03-15-2013, 02:22 PM
I would disagree with Indy. They are WAY over-spending for mid-level talent.

They are making some smart moves and are trying to keep the roster competitive while utilizing the draft to build. They may be overspending, but they're doing much what other teams do when they are so close to their goal.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:23 PM
you do not cut if you do not have a reliable replacement, such as a younger player ready to go.

Except what you think about the potential of Jackson, Ayers, Beal, etc...is likely completely different from the people that coach them every day. So in reality, none of us can make that open assumption.

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:25 PM
if we admire teams like the ravens, packers and steelers, teams that build through the draft, make smart choices in FA and continue to win year after year. and we want the broncos to use that model, then we can't complain when the broncos let go of overpriced players that might be fan favorites. it's the business model. and it's proven to work.

(for the record, i think what elway is doing doesn't really mirror any team's front office philosophy. he's doing his own thing, and doing it well.)


Lmao

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:26 PM
Except what you think about the potential of Jackson, Ayers, Beal, etc...is likely completely different from the people that coach them every day. So in reality, none of us can make that open assumption.

Of course we can, just like you can say that you think Doom isnt worth the money he is making. Its a messageboard dude.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:26 PM
They are making some smart moves and are trying to keep the roster competitive while utilizing the draft to build. They may be overspending, but they're doing much what other teams do when they are so close to their goal.

I guess I just dont see Gosder Cherilus, Donlad Thomas, Eric Walden and Ricky Jean Francois as quality moves. I do like Sidbury, but other than that, it seems they are filling roster spots. Just my opinion, though

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:28 PM
Of course we can, just like you can say that you think Doom isnt worth the money he is making. Its a messageboard dude.

Ok. This thread has become ridiculous

Lancane
03-15-2013, 02:28 PM
Except what you think about the potential of Jackson, Ayers, Beal, etc...is likely completely different from the people that coach them every day. So in reality, none of us can make that open assumption.

Potential means **** in the real world of sports, you have to be able to translate it to the game in question. And yes, we don't see what the coaches see - but then again coaches can mistakes...remember Orton? Coaches are not all wise, powerful beings - they're human and like all humans can make grave mistakes. Ayers, Beal and Jackson have had chances to earn spots, but Hunter and Dumervil proved better then they as did Wolfe, a 300lbs. defensive end?

Poet
03-15-2013, 02:29 PM
Then you hit the point where going "the coaches and the organization is right," and bam, there goes the message board. Look, in the end, I get why the pros are the pros. By that same token, I've been here since 2007. I've seen bad coaches make good decisions and good coaches make bad decisions. I've even seen mediocre decisions made. Defaulting to what they say being right is no better or worse than otherwise.

Unless we're talking about someone proposing retarded shit, like saying they should cut Doom and ink Freeney to a 50 million, 3 year deal.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:31 PM
Potential means **** in the real world of sports, you have to be able to translate it to the game in question. And yes, we don't see what the coaches see - but then again coaches can mistakes...remember Orton? Coaches are not all wise, powerful beings - they're human and like all humans can make grave mistakes. Ayers, Beal and Jackson have had chances to earn spots, but Hunter and Dumervil proved better then they as did Wolfe, a 300lbs. defensive end?

Wolfe plays end to lock up tackles for Miller. So Ayers & Co. didnt start over a Pro-Bowl player and a guy much bigger than them who was used for a different puprose. That MUST mean they suck.

And if you are seriously going to say potential doesnt mean shit in sports, you are sadly mistaken.

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:32 PM
Then you hit the point where going "the coaches and the organization is right," and bam, there goes the message board. Look, in the end, I get why the pros are the pros. By that same token, I've been here since 2007. I've seen bad coaches make good decisions and good coaches make bad decisions. I've even seen mediocre decisions made. Defaulting to what they say being right is no better or worse than otherwise.

Unless we're talking about someone proposing retarded shit, like saying they should cut Doom and ink Freeney to a 50 million, 3 year deal.


Well, unless your BTB. He's worked in the NFL as a waterboy so he knows more than the rest of us. And of course, now people are saying we cant make assumptions on players because we arent in the organization even though they do it all the time. Go ******* figure.

pipes
03-15-2013, 02:32 PM
Hellz yeah!
@AdamSchefter: Elvis Dumervil agreed to salary reduction, smartly. Remains in Denver.

Poet
03-15-2013, 02:34 PM
And now everyone loves Doom, again?

pipes
03-15-2013, 02:35 PM
Uhh if that's a reference to me?
I never stopped!

NightTerror218
03-15-2013, 02:35 PM
ooooo time for someone to piss off Mo and make a new thread

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:36 PM
You know the funny thing is also, different players respond differently on different teams. If you dont have the right coaching, scheme, or surrounding talent said player may not shine there at all. So yea, we could cut a guy like Doom and then sign a guy like Osi but it doesnt mean that he will perform well here. NOTHING guarantees that no matter how much you want to look at past stats to base it off of.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:37 PM
Issue over. He took a cut and is staying

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:37 PM
And now everyone loves Doom, again?

No, they will find something else to bitch about.

chazoe60
03-15-2013, 02:37 PM
And the rich stay rich. :D

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:37 PM
And now everyone loves Doom, again?

We all loved him to begin with. Just not at his price tag.

Poet
03-15-2013, 02:38 PM
You know the funny thing is also, different players respond differently on different teams. If you dont have the right coaching, scheme, or surrounding talent said player may not shine there at all. So yea, we could cut a guy like Doom and then sign a guy like Osi but it doesnt mean that he will perform well here. NOTHING guarantees that no matter how much you want to look at past stats to base it off of.

It's an educated guess, really. Sometimes players leave a team and tear it up. Zimmer has a habit of taking old corners and making them look good again. Who knew Terrence Newman could still cover?

Poet
03-15-2013, 02:39 PM
We all loved him to begin with. Just not at his price tag.

Chaz, let's keep it real. Between a black man and white guy who likes black women, the past couple days some contempt for Doom was being fostered.

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:39 PM
We all loved him to begin with. Just not at his price tag.

I really hate Peyton's pricetag.

Lancane
03-15-2013, 02:39 PM
Wolfe plays end to lock up tackles for Miller. So Ayers & Co. didnt start over a Pro-Bowl player and a guy much bigger than them who was used for a different puprose. That MUST mean they suck.

And if you are seriously going to say potential doesnt mean shit in sports, you are sadly mistaken.

Wolfe plays end to lock up tackles for Miller, which even Ayers could do and then Wolfe could have rushed from the interior of the defensive line. Ayers has lost his job by his own actions and to players who had guess...less potential.

Potential doesn't mean **** in sports, I've seen kids with more drive, more heart and better character outplay even those with the greatest potential...see Rodgers-Cromartie if you want to keep arguing the point.

topscribe
03-15-2013, 02:41 PM
Chaz, let's keep it real. Between a black man and white guy who likes black women, the past couple days some contempt for Doom was being fostered.
It's called being a fan. We all love the players . . . if they play for our team . . .
.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:41 PM
Chaz, let's keep it real. Between a black man and white guy who likes black women, the past couple days some contempt for Doom was being fostered.

If there was, I dont recall seeing it spewed by anyone that was simply ok with losing him and his price tag. But with some of the jokers on here...I wont say it never happened

Poet
03-15-2013, 02:42 PM
I really hate Peyton's pricetag.

He'd look good in Bengal stripes too.

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:43 PM
Chaz, let's keep it real. Between a black man and white guy who likes black women, the past couple days some contempt for Doom was being fostered.

Indeed.

CoachChaz
03-15-2013, 02:43 PM
I really hate Peyton's pricetag.

As do I...but we could be paying more for Flacco. Unfortunately, that's the world of franchise QB's

Northman
03-15-2013, 02:43 PM
He'd look good in Bengal stripes too.

You can have him, he's overpaid.

Ravage!!!
03-15-2013, 02:48 PM
Good to hear, this was a good move.

Poet
03-15-2013, 03:06 PM
You can have him, he's overpaid.

Holla at my man Mike Brown. We're willing to trade you Adam Jones and some stale cake.

Northman
03-15-2013, 03:11 PM
Holla at my man Mike Brown. We're willing to trade you Adam Jones and some stale cake.


Nah, just give us Dalton and Green straight up and you can have him.

Poet
03-15-2013, 03:17 PM
Nah, just give us Dalton and Green straight up and you can have him.

Green is estimated to get 15 million a year when his rookie deal is up. He'll be overpaid. Now that I think about it, everyone is overpaid. What's money other than a piece of paper, really?

Slick
03-15-2013, 09:45 PM
No one was freaking out or going crazy in this thread BTB. Some of us wanted Doom to stay even if he is over paid. We were hopefull the two sides could work it out instead of acting like we didn't need him. Right now we are paper champions and nothing more. Some times you get on your high horse and act like you are the only rational human being that posts here. You're a smart guy and a good poster but it's annoying.

zbeg
03-15-2013, 11:49 PM
Some times you get on your high horse and act like you are the only rational human being that posts here.

I don't know the guy from Adam, but I think "only rational human being that posts here" is a reasonably accurate description. Close enough, anyway.

I'm not a big fan of overreaction. When I do see someone overreact, I want to kill them and everyone they know.

Nomad
03-15-2013, 11:51 PM
I don't know the guy from Adam, but I think "only rational human being that posts here" is a reasonably accurate description. Close enough, anyway.

I'm not a big fan of overreaction. When I do see someone overreact, I want to kill them and everyone they know.

You get some beers in me (especially the high abv ones) and I can overreact like a school girl......not very mature of me.:lol:

Northman
03-16-2013, 08:01 AM
Its a messageboard and people want to vent. Thats life.

Slick
03-16-2013, 08:21 AM
I don't understand zbeg. Are you agreeing with me or are we nancy bois for wanting Doom to stay.

They tried to low ball Doom. Offered 6.5 initially which was almost a 50% pay cut.

BigDaddyBronco
03-16-2013, 08:40 AM
6.5 is about what he is worth on the market. 8 was fair. How his agent and the Broncos front office ****** this up so bad is beyond stupid. Elway isn't perfect and makes mistakes sometimes. This is the worst one yet.

Maybe the NFL will give us a break due to the technology failure. We'll see.

broncohead
03-16-2013, 08:52 PM
Elway didn't mess up. He gave a time the offer had to be in by and it wasn't met. Simple as that.

Dzone
03-16-2013, 10:30 PM
How do you put value on a sack? What if the QB might have thrown an incompletion or interception anyway? So Doom had 11 sacks last year. What if the qb had thrown a bad pass anyway in say 6 of those sacks? We assume that the sack had value. Sometimes, it takes a team out of field goal range so theres an obvious benefit...plus helps field position better than an incompletion. Are 11 sacks worth $12 Million a year? Do teams that lead the league in sacks go to the playoffs all the time?
Isnt it agreed that Ayers is better against the run than dumervil? What if Jackson played instead of Dumervil. Could he conceivably get 10 sacks?

I am sure there is a formula of some kind that figures in quarterback pressures, etc etc in order to adequately grade performance...I dont know how dumervil grades out vs others at his position. How is he compared to JJ Watt ? How much does Watt get paid? Just throwing it out there for the sake of discussion, while we wait out the Doom Drama
Edit- JJ Watts 2012 salary-$2,553,977, ranked 392nd in the league and he is an MVP candidate. Interesting. As Elway would say, "Thats out of whack"

TXBRONC
03-17-2013, 08:01 AM
How do you put value on a sack? What if the QB might have thrown an incompletion or interception anyway? So Doom had 11 sacks last year. What if the qb had thrown a bad pass anyway in say 6 of those sacks? We assume that the sack had value. Sometimes, it takes a team out of field goal range so theres an obvious benefit...plus helps field position better than an incompletion. Are 11 sacks worth $12 Million a year? Do teams that lead the league in sacks go to the playoffs all the time?
Isnt it agreed that Ayers is better against the run than dumervil? What if Jackson played instead of Dumervil. Could he conceivably get 10 sacks?

I am sure there is a formula of some kind that figures in quarterback pressures, etc etc in order to adequately grade performance...I dont know how dumervil grades out vs others at his position. How is he compared to JJ Watt ? How much does Watt get paid? Just throwing it out there for the sake of discussion, while we wait out the Doom Drama
Edit- JJ Watts 2012 salary-$2,553,977, ranked 392nd in the league and he is an MVP candidate. Interesting. As Elway would say, "Thats out of whack"

If the market dicated that 11 sacks worth $12 million then it would be. Have you not listen to what Elway has said publically? He said Dumervil's salary is out of wack with what other pass rushers are being paid.

If Ayers was so damn good he would have never lost job. Malik Jackson played in some subpackage and zero sacks it's doubtful he would post double digit sacks. So no it's not really all that conceivable.

You do know that Watt is working off of a rookie contract don't you? So what exactly is there to discuss?

Northman
03-17-2013, 08:42 AM
You do know that Watt is working off of a rookie contract don't you? So what exactly is there to discuss?

Yea, this is what i was going to address. When Watt came into the league he was an unknown. But now he is proving to be a force and when his contract expires it will be raised dramatically unless he has a major setback going forward.

Dzone
03-17-2013, 09:35 AM
If the market dicated that 11 sacks worth $12 million then it would be. Have you not listen to what Elway has said publically? He said Dumervil's salary is out of wack with what other pass rushers are being paid.

If Ayers was so damn good he would have never lost job. Malik Jackson played in some subpackage and zero sacks it's doubtful he would post double digit sacks. So no it's not really all that conceivable.

You do know that Watt is working off of a rookie contract don't you? So what exactly is there to discuss?
Must be plenty to discuss, you just responded ...

Foochacho
03-17-2013, 10:08 AM
How do you put value on a sack? What if the QB might have thrown an incompletion or interception anyway? So Doom had 11 sacks last year. What if the qb had thrown a bad pass anyway in say 6 of those sacks? We assume that the sack had value. Sometimes, it takes a team out of field goal range so theres an obvious benefit...plus helps field position better than an incompletion. Are 11 sacks worth $12 Million a year? Do teams that lead the league in sacks go to the playoffs all the time?
Isnt it agreed that Ayers is better against the run than dumervil? What if Jackson played instead of Dumervil. Could he conceivably get 10 sacks?

I am sure there is a formula of some kind that figures in quarterback pressures, etc etc in order to adequately grade performance...I dont know how dumervil grades out vs others at his position. How is he compared to JJ Watt ? How much does Watt get paid? Just throwing it out there for the sake of discussion, while we wait out the Doom Drama
Edit- JJ Watts 2012 salary-$2,553,977, ranked 392nd in the league and he is an MVP candidate. Interesting. As Elway would say, "Thats out of whack"

Its not all about sacks, qb pressures can be just as valuable. A good pass rusher is going to pressure the qb alot and cause bad passes. I don't know how he stacks up with the qb pressure stats but I see Doom in the mix alot. He deserves to be paid he would be hard to replace. All ends disappear now and then in games, even Watt and Miller. People act like Doom is the only inconsistent end. Teams pay the tackles big money for a reason, to shut down these ends. Sometimes it works.

Simple Jaded
03-17-2013, 04:48 PM
How did the FO **** this up? They got an idiot player and agent to accept their offer, the ball was in Doom's court.

The best part is it took over a week for Doom to accept the offer but seemingly took a New York minute to fire his agent.......

Ravage!!!
03-17-2013, 05:40 PM
I don't think its that simple. I mean, I LOVE Elway and believe he's an awsome GM (up to this point)....but this is a BIG business,and Elway is a business man.

That being said, lets not pretend that its inconceivable that Elway & Co. didn't make the changes to the contract when sending it over, and in doing so, made it a 1 year contract as the Agent said. If that is the case, then that contract does have to then be "agreed upon"..and that isn't something someone just "does in a NY minute".. when the team is taking a year of the "believed" deal. People can say that the agent was trying to "pull a fast one".... or.... people can say that eh Denver office was trying to pull a fast one by making Doom make a fast decision on a reduction of contract from what they agreed upon.

Now no matter what the situation may be, I would take Elway's side in the long run because I believe Elway can be a brilliant GM.....but I also know that for a person to be that brilliant type of GM, they have to be shrewed in business. If .... IF.... this was the situation and it back-fires on the Broncos by them having to take a 5 million dollar hit and NOT get Doom....then the FO very much did **** up.

Simple Jaded
03-17-2013, 08:14 PM
Even if they made changes are you gonna blame the FO that made the changes or the agent/player that didn't read the contract til the last minute? And are we to believe that they didn't read the contract in time when both parties admit that Doom's camp initially rejected the offer just after 1:00? Long before the NFL deadline.

You blame who you want, I think $8 mil for a pass rush specialist in this market is a gift. The problem isn't the snafu, it's the dumbass player/agent that are too ******* stupid to realize it was a gift in time to avoid the snafu. They had over a week to figure it out.

That is, of course, if the player/agent weren't trying to pull one over on the FO. That's not inconceivable either.......

Npba900
03-23-2013, 10:59 PM
I don't think its that simple. I mean, I LOVE Elway and believe he's an awsome GM (up to this point)....but this is a BIG business,and Elway is a business man.

That being said, lets not pretend that its inconceivable that Elway & Co. didn't make the changes to the contract when sending it over, and in doing so, made it a 1 year contract as the Agent said. If that is the case, then that contract does have to then be "agreed upon"..and that isn't something someone just "does in a NY minute".. when the team is taking a year of the "believed" deal. People can say that the agent was trying to "pull a fast one".... or.... people can say that eh Denver office was trying to pull a fast one by making Doom make a fast decision on a reduction of contract from what they agreed upon.

Now no matter what the situation may be, I would take Elway's side in the long run because I believe Elway can be a brilliant GM.....but I also know that for a person to be that brilliant type of GM, they have to be shrewed in business. If .... IF.... this was the situation and it back-fires on the Broncos by them having to take a 5 million dollar hit and NOT get Doom....then the FO very much did **** up.

To be fair.....Doom and his agent both need to be shrewed businessmen in conjunction with Elway.

Point is, when the dust all settles as the GM Elway needs to ensure that the Broncos can get another 11 sack season out of Doom or replace those 11 sacks with someone else.

As for Doom, he had better hope the next team he goes to has a system that takes advantage of his talents or stays with Denver b/c Denver's defensive scheme takes advantage of his talents.