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View Full Version : Norv Turner is a pathetic coach



Medford Bronco
11-16-2007, 11:50 PM
Norv is so bad that even on classic games
when he was with Washington he chokes

in 99 when Dallas trailed 35-14 in the 4th QTR
Troy Aikman ralled his team for a 41-35 victory

of course Norv contributed by sucking as usual

kinda funny, Norv was the worst then
and still in the bottom 5 coaches

You cant depend on missed FGs to win every
week right Norv :laugh:

Here is an article on that
he called this game a turning point
vs Indy.... Norv is delusional because
of this.

Also interesting article on old Norv as well

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-morningrush111207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

As the San Diego Chargers filed into their locker room following their dramatic, 23-21 victory over the second-best team in football Sunday night, there was no pretense of triumph. The celebration, if you could call it that, was subdued and almost sheepish.

Despite having defeated the defending Super Bowl champion Indianapolis Colts – their first victory of the 2007 season over a team with a winning record, and one that moved them into sole possession of first place in the AFC West – San Diego's players reacted like a bunch of biologists who had just received an award for proving that humans need air to survive.

Then, as few others can, Chargers coach Norv Turner sucked the remaining air out of the locker room, telling his players, and I paraphrase: This could be the game that gives us the momentum we need to do something special. Even though we did a lot of things wrong, we still found a way to win, and we can build on that.

Just like that, the Chargers were on a roll – specifically, the eye-rolls that many players felt like giving during Turner's speech.


Right, coach. Whatever you say.

• Peyton Manning threw six interceptions. Six! Second-year cornerback Antonio Cromartie, a player making his first NFL start, had three alone – in the first half. Even when the longshots are coming in at Del Mar, you won't encounter a more unlikely Pick-Six in these parts.

• Adam Vinatieri missed a pair of 'Oh No He Din't' field goals: a rushed 42-yarder just before halftime (somewhat understandable, especially given the wet weather) and a 29-yarder that went wide right with 1:31 to go (utterly unconscionable). That's right – Vinatieri, the most clutch kicker of this or perhaps any era, practically had his quarterback screaming "Noonan!" as he went completely out of character and handed San Diego a game it had appeared to blow.

• Most significant of all, the Chargers had one extremely frustrated franchise halfback at game's end.

"At some point things have got to change for us, because what we're doing now is not good enough," LaDainian Tomlinson said quietly as he dressed at his locker. "The way we're going, we're not going to be able to beat the elite teams in the league. I mean, we beat one tonight, and we're happy. But it has to get better."

Last year, after their 14-2 regular season, the Chargers thought they were an elite team with a seemingly boundless window of opportunity. Then they failed to put away the Patriots in a divisional round playoff game at home, and in the aftermath of that defeat, San Diego's world began to spin off its axis.

Coordinators Wade Phillips (Dallas Cowboys) and Cam Cameron (Miami Dolphins) got head coaching jobs, and position coaches left to be coordinators. Belatedly, coach Marty Schottenheimer was fired, the casualty of a power struggle with general manager A.J. Smith.

In came Turner, who thus far has done everything to show that his 59-82-1 career record as a head coach with the Redskins and Raiders was no fluke

The players don't respond to his leadership or motivational tactics, if you can call them that. They view his sideline demeanor as frazzled and indecisive. And, perhaps worst of all, they're not embracing the strategic vision put forth on offense (by Turner, regarded as one of the NFL's best play-callers) or defense (by coordinator Ted Cottrell).

"We have the best running back in football, and yet we don't sense a commitment to the running game," one veteran said Sunday night. "Last year, teams put eight in the box against us, and we ran anyway – and found a way to be successful. That set up the play action, which fueled our passing game. This year, it seems like we run because we're supposed to; it balances out our passing attack. But it's not like being physical at the point of attack and running the ball is our personality."

Meanwhile, eight days ago in Minneapolis, the Chargers' once-vaunted defense got pushed around and gave up 296 rushing yards – to one player, the Vikings' Adrian Peterson. "A lot of guys were wondering how we could sit back and play zone all game while he was doing that to us," another Chargers veteran said. "It's like Cottrell is going to do it his way, and that's the only way he knows, and he won't come off of it. If you look at it, he's been fired from his last two jobs, and guys are questioning whether he's the right man for this one."

This internal doubt is the byproduct of a power-hungry general manager's grand plan. Once Schotteneimer was gone, Smith seemed to base his search for a new head coach on the following criteria:

Someone who recognized Smith as the franchise's all-knowing authority on all things football, and a man who could draw up plays that allowed the awesome assemblage of talent Smith has collected to overwhelm overmatched opponents.

It didn't work out that way, of course, beginning with the fact that the fiery, emotional Schottenheimer wasn't so easily replaced with a man who lacks his charisma and aura of authority.

"Norv's not going to give you a Knute Rockne speech," said one Chargers player, "so you're going to have to find a different way to get yourself up. Look at it this way: We had a lot of young guys who came straight from college and then played for Marty. In some cases, they had eight consecutive years of a coach screaming at you and telling you what to do and how to do it. Now you're all of a sudden supposed to be a professional and do it on your own? Also, a lot of the key veterans who were here before (Donnie Edwards, Randall Godfrey, Keenan McCardell) are gone now. So it's going to be an adjustment."

Turner didn't help himself Sunday by coaching passively with a lead and by mismanaging his replay challenges in a potentially ruinous way. He was goaded into one unsuccessful challenge in the first half when fans loudly responded to what they believed was a poor call on Colts linebacker Clint Session's acrobatic end zone interception. Turner missed again with 10:57 remaining, throwing the red flag following Reggie Wayne's low, 20-yard catch on third-and-8 from the Indy 3-yard line.

That meant that when Turner really needed to challenge a call, on another Sessions interception with 5:50 to go that looked like it might have been reversible, he had no red flag to throw. Turner might as well have raised a white one as Manning, given yet another chance to win a game he had no business winning, jogged onto the field down two points with the ball at the San Diego 42
Only a replay reversal on a first-down spot (mandated by the officials, as it occurred in the final two minutes) and Vinatieri's miss spared San Diego the agony that seemed imminent.

In the locker room after the game, two Chargers stood near the door to the training room discussing Turner's poor handling of the challenges. Another wondered how quarterback Philip Rivers (13-for-24, 104 yards, two interceptions and one horrific fumble in his own end zone) seems to be regressing under the coaching regime of a man renowned for his ability to nurture young passers.

Even the San Diego defensive players, who had responded to the embarrassing effort against the Vikings with an emphatic display of relentless energy and opportunism, weren't buying Turner's spin that Sunday's effort was the start of something big.

"I'm happy with a win, of course, and it puts us in first place, but we know we've still got a long road ahead," All-Pro nose tackle Jamal Williams said. "You've got to understand, we got a new coaching staff. They've got to get used to us, too, and it takes time. But we've all got to get it together, man. It's not last year. I'm tired of hearing guys say that – 'Last year, last year.' That's over. We need to figure out who we are now."

The Chargers, to GM Smith's credit, are a team full of promising young studs like Cromartie, who has a chance to be a star at a position that tends to cannibalize even its most talented performers. But when you think about this team's window of opportunity, realize that LT, the reigning league MVP, is now 28 and counting.

Given that Tomlinson's seventh season, from a team perspective, has been a significant step backward from his sixth, he has every right to be worried that his window is closing more rapidly than an Adrian Peterson burst through the San Diego secondary.

"Yeah, definitely, that's the way I feel," he said. "Nobody knows how long I'm going to play, so heck yeah, I definitely think about that."

I can't be 100 percent sure, but something tells me that neither the rare Vinatieri shank nor the mundane Turner speech put his mind at ease.

omac
11-17-2007, 10:26 AM
Nice article, and very eye-opening.

I know the Chargers players are frustrated, but it's never good to thrash your own coaches. It shows dissention and a lack of leadership. Reminds me of the Raiders last season.

Well, at least it should be painfully obvious to A.J. Smith that his ego caused him to make a huge blunder.

TXBRONC
11-17-2007, 11:15 AM
I remember quite clearly several of us on Broncosmania saying to Charger fans that Norv Turner was a bad choice for a head coach unless you're looking for a 'yes' man. I guess that's what A.J. Smith wanted.

King87
11-17-2007, 11:22 AM
Some people are just meant to be coordinators.

TXBRONC
11-17-2007, 11:28 AM
Some people are just meant to be coordinators.

There haven't been many things I've agreed with you on, but certainly do here.

sanluis
11-17-2007, 03:11 PM
Michael Silver is an A-hole and should be avoided at all costs. If you don't you might get some of his stink on your clothing. This guy is a big pile of stink. I doubt anything he said about the Chargers or any other team is true.

He has zero creditability an d I never read the garbage he spews.

As for Norv not doing a good job and being a bad coach for the Chargers? Looks true so far. I think his D-cord Ted Cottrell is even worse.

Medford Bronco
11-17-2007, 03:30 PM
Michael Silver is an A-hole and should be avoided at all costs. If you don't you might get some of his stink on your clothing. This guy is a big pile of stink. I doubt anything he said about the Chargers or any other team is true.

He has zero creditability an d I never read the garbage he spews.

As for Norv not doing a good job and being a bad coach for the Chargers? Looks true so far. I think his D-cord Ted Cottrell is even worse.

sorry sanluis about Michael Silver,

he did make some good points here (if he made them up then,
you are correct on credibility)

I just think SD missed the boat without hiring their own inhouse candidate
of Phillips or even Cameron. yes the Fins have struggled under him
but Phillips knew his system and the transition would have
been smooth iMO

I think SD has far and away the most talent in the West
but Norv is holding them back.. Just my take

sanluis
11-17-2007, 06:48 PM
sorry sanluis about Michael Silver,

he did make some good points here (if he made them up then,
you are correct on credibility)

I just think SD missed the boat without hiring their own inhouse candidate
of Phillips or even Cameron. yes the Fins have struggled under him
but Phillips knew his system and the transition would have
been smooth iMO

I think SD has far and away the most talent in the West
but Norv is holding them back.. Just my take

Well this is the smack shack so no need to be sorry. This Silvers is a media prostitute feeding on rumor and flat out lies to get people to read his stink filled column. His writing would fit better in the Enquirer than on any sports page.

I agree with you Med about the coaching debacle so far in San Diego. Some people want to try to blame AJ Smith and that is wrong IMO. The blame is Dean Spanos'. It looks like he pulled a complete hack job. It Dean Spanos had any skills at all as a owner he would have fired Marty as soon as Marty declined his token contract extension. Then Dean would have had the opportunity to hire any coach he and AJ Smith wanted. By waiting, Dean doomed us (the Chargers)to the dregs, that no one else wanted to coach our team. Still I thought at the beginning of the season that Norv just might be able to get it done. But the combination of Norv and Ted Cottrell is proving to be too much for the team to over come.
Still even with all our troubles we are still in first place. weird! :eek:

TXBRONC
11-17-2007, 07:59 PM
Well this is the smack shack so no need to be sorry. This Silvers is a media prostitute feeding on rumor and flat out lies to get people to read his stink filled column. His writing would fit better in the Enquirer than on any sports page.

I agree with you Med about the coaching debacle so far in San Diego. Some people want to try to blame AJ Smith and that is wrong IMO. The blame is Dean Spanos'. It looks like he pulled a complete hack job. It Dean Spanos had any skills at all as a owner he would have fired Marty as soon as Marty declined his token contract extension. Then Dean would have had the opportunity to hire any coach he and AJ Smith wanted. By waiting, Dean doomed us (the Chargers)to the dregs, that no one else wanted to coach our team. Still I thought at the beginning of the season that Norv just might be able to get it done. But the combination of Norv and Ted Cottrell is proving to be too much for the team to over come.
Still even with all our troubles we are still in first place. weird! :eek:

I don't buy that at all the a traditional GM like Smith is given the authority to hire and fire coaches. The idiot in your mess is Smith. First and foremost they should have held on to Marty he's still a better coach than either Phillips or Cameron. However after letting Marty go they had opportunity to hire either Phillips or Cameron and they fumbled the ball pardon the pun.

sanluis
11-19-2007, 10:51 AM
I don't buy that at all the a traditional GM like Smith is given the authority to hire and fire coaches. The idiot in your mess is Smith. First and foremost they should have held on to Marty he's still a better coach than either Phillips or Cameron. However after letting Marty go they had opportunity to hire either Phillips or Cameron and they fumbled the ball pardon the pun.

AJ did not have the authority to fire Marty and give away 4 million of Deans dollars. That is what Marty is being paid right now to play golf and spend time with his grand Kids.

AJ is not given the authority to fire coaches. If he was, Marty would have been fired much sooner. AJ never liked Marty. AJ advises Dean and makes recommendations. Dean is the final word. Dean is responsible for this mess. Dean has a history of screwing these things up.

AJ did help Dean pick Norv and Ted Cottrell. He thought that they would be most like the staff that was fired and hired away.

And TX you are wrong about the timing to hire Cameron and Wade. They were already hired by Miami and Dallas when Dean finally fired Marty. And Marty orchestrated his dismissal by insisting to hire his brother as the D cord. That was the reason Dean decided to let Marty go and give him the 4 mil $$ left on Marty's contract. Not AJ doing at all. And then Dean threw AJ under the bus and told everyone that it was due to the "dysfunctional relationship" of the head coach and GM. That may have been a part of it. Sure didn't seem to matter when the team was 14-2.

I don't hold AJ responsible. It is Dean Spanos that I reserve my anger. :mad:

Medford Bronco
11-19-2007, 10:58 AM
AJ did not have the authority to fire Marty and give away 4 million of Deans dollars. That is what Marty is being paid right now to play golf and spend time with his grand Kids.

AJ is not given the authority to fire coaches. If he was, Marty would have been fired much sooner. AJ never liked Marty. AJ advises Dean and makes recommendations. Dean is the final word. Dean is responsible for this mess. Dean has a history of screwing these things up.

AJ did help Dean pick Norv and Ted Cottrell. He thought that they would be most like the staff that was fired and hired away.

And TX you are wrong about the timing to hire Cameron and Wade. They were already hired by Miami and Dallas when Dean finally fired Marty. And Marty orchestrated his dismissal by insisting to hire his brother as the D cord. That was the reason Dean decided to let Marty go and give him the 4 mil $$ left on Marty's contract. Not AJ doing at all. And then Dean threw AJ under the bus and told everyone that it was due to the "dysfunctional relationship" of the head coach and GM. That may have been a part of it. Sure didn't seem to matter when the team was 14-2.

I don't hold AJ responsible. It is Dean Spanos that I reserve my anger. :mad:

sanluis I am asking a very important Question

about Rivers and this is not smack.

why has he lost his confidence so much? he was so good last year
and the same players are there still:confused:

I think you still have a 11-12 win talented type of team
but something is missing?

Am I correct or did SD overachieve last year,

serious question Sanluis as I respect you a lot. :salute:

sanluis
11-19-2007, 12:31 PM
sanluis I am asking a very important Question

about Rivers and this is not smack.

why has he lost his confidence so much? he was so good last year
and the same players are there still:confused:

I think you still have a 11-12 win talented type of team
but something is missing?

Am I correct or did SD overachieve last year,

serious question Sanluis as I respect you a lot. :salute:

Med I think there are number of reasons for Rivers troubles. The change from Cam Cameron and Marty to Norv Turner being a big one. Cam knew what Rivers was good at and called plays to his strengths. Norv is doing what Norv wants. Not necessarily what Rivers is best at Or this team IMO. Ted Cottrell only rushing 4 and having Shawn and Shawn dropping back in coverage is another example of players being asked to do things that are not there strengths. As much as the front office tried to keep things the same they failed and actually brought in the opposite.

The O-line is playing well below last years standard. We are also missing our pro bowl center. The O-line always deserves a fair share of the credit and blame when a QB is successful or fails. The O-line has been bad at run blocking as well. (see LT's stats)

Then there is the loss of veteran players like Mccardell, Donnie Edwards, Randal Godfrey and their leadership. You can see the same thing with the loss of Smith and Wilson at Denver. It effects a team. As much as you think there should be other guys that fill that void it just isn't the same.

The players are just not the same this year. I think they see the way people are treated and have a business attitude now. Just doing there job so that they can pick up their paycheck on Friday. There is no emotion, there is no fire or sense of urgency. And that is a combination of the front office and heacoach IMO.They are the ones that set the expectation. They are the ones to drive home the culture of the team. And that is what Marty Schottenheimer was one of the best at and Nov Turner is one of the worst.

I would not be surprised to see Denver take the Divison this year ( getting killed in the first round) and Norv and his staff getting fired. I didn't expect another 14-2 season. But I did expect, barring injuries, better than 500.

Medford Bronco
11-19-2007, 12:43 PM
Med I think there are number of reasons for Rivers troubles. The change from Cam Cameron and Marty to Norv Turner being a big one. Cam knew what Rivers was good at and called plays to his strengths. Norv is doing what Norv wants. Not necessarily what Rivers is best at Or this team IMO. Ted Cottrell only rushing 4 and having Shawn and Shawn dropping back in coverage is another example of players being asked to do things that are not there strengths. As much as the front office tried to keep things the same they failed and actually brought in the opposite.

The O-line is playing well below last years standard. We are also missing our pro bowl center. The O-line always deserves a fair share of the credit and blame when a QB is successful or fails. The O-line has been bad at run blocking as well. (see LT's stats)

Then there is the loss of veteran players like Mccardell, Donnie Edwards, Randal Godfrey and their leadership. You can see the same thing with the loss of Smith and Wilson at Denver. It effects a team. As much as you think there should be other guys that fill that void it just isn't the same.

The players are just not the same this year. I think they see the way people are treated and have a business attitude now. Just doing there job so that they can pick up their paycheck on Friday. There is no emotion, there is no fire or sense of urgency. And that is a combination of the front office and heacoach IMO.They are the ones that set the expectation. They are the ones to drive home the culture of the team. And that is what Marty Schottenheimer was one of the best at and Nov Turner is one of the worst.

I would not be surprised to see Denver take the Divison this year ( getting killed in the first round) and Norv and his staff getting fired. I didn't expect another 14-2 season. But I did expect, barring injuries, better than 500.

great post Sanluis. I respect a level headed Charger fan
and you are not a blind homer like some on BMania.

I still think the talent might ovecome Norv, but I am beginning
to think that Denver actually has a chance vs them to win
a very weak divsion.

we shall see.

TXBRONC
11-19-2007, 05:22 PM
AJ did not have the authority to fire Marty and give away 4 million of Deans dollars. That is what Marty is being paid right now to play golf and spend time with his grand Kids.

AJ is not given the authority to fire coaches. If he was, Marty would have been fired much sooner. AJ never liked Marty. AJ advises Dean and makes recommendations. Dean is the final word. Dean is responsible for this mess. Dean has a history of screwing these things up.

AJ did help Dean pick Norv and Ted Cottrell. He thought that they would be most like the staff that was fired and hired away.

And TX you are wrong about the timing to hire Cameron and Wade. They were already hired by Miami and Dallas when Dean finally fired Marty. And Marty orchestrated his dismissal by insisting to hire his brother as the D cord. That was the reason Dean decided to let Marty go and give him the 4 mil $$ left on Marty's contract. Not AJ doing at all. And then Dean threw AJ under the bus and told everyone that it was due to the "dysfunctional relationship" of the head coach and GM. That may have been a part of it. Sure didn't seem to matter when the team was 14-2.

I don't hold AJ responsible. It is Dean Spanos that I reserve my anger. :mad:

I would like to see something in print if you got, because I still don't believe this completely.

sanluis
11-19-2007, 10:23 PM
I would like to see something in print if you got, because I still don't this completely.

You doubt me Tx??!! :laugh:

Here you go.....


The firing of Marty Schottenheimer last February was a shock to many people, but not to the former Chargers coach himself.

Schottenheimer not only expected his dismissal, he arranged it. He intentionally provoked club president Dean Spanos into making a change.

That reality has been overlooked, forgotten or purposely ignored in the wake of a 1-3 start in which new coach Norv Turner seems determined to prove that his failures in Washington and Oakland were no fluke. The focus instead has been on general manager A.J. Smith and how he is a goof for pushing out a coach who was 35-13 in his last three seasons for one who was 58-82-1 in nine seasons as a head coach.

No doubt, Smith disliked Schottenheimer. But he had nothing to do with the firing. The only person in the organization with the authority to fire a head coach is Spanos, and he did so in this instance because of a disagreement with Schottenheimer over the coaching staff.



Here's your link if you want to learn more.http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jim_trotter/10/04/chargers/index.html

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