Elvis Dumervil willing to restructure Broncos contract, agent says

[Denver Native (Carol)]

If Elvis Dumervil is mad, he's not showing it. He may not agree with the Broncos' desire to slash his $12 million salary for the 2013 season, but he isn't defiantly making any "pay me or release me" demands.

The Broncos communicated their cost-cutting intentions Thursday to Dumervil's agent, Marty Magid.

"They informed us they want to do a restructure," Magid said. "I'm not classifying this as a pay cut. I'm going ahead with this being a restructure. If we can meet on some common ground, there's a potential we can get it done. If we can't, they'll have to make a decision. But we're definitely in good faith going to try to negotiate this out.

rest - http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22742694/elvis-dumervil-willing-restructure-broncos-contract-agent-says

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi

Elvis saw this coming. He's always been willing to restructure. His agent is doing his job, fighting the good fight. It'll work out.

[DenBronx]

Boom!


Now shut up about the Dwight Freeney bull****.


Elvis isnt leaving the building, sorry to burst your bubbles.

[BroncoWave]

Elvis isnt leaving the building, sorry to burst your bubbles.

Whose bubble are you bursting? Not a single person in that thread said they wanted him cut. All anyone said is that he is way overpaid and IF we had to cut him it wouldn't be the end of the world. This is just another example fans completely overblowing criticism of a player by other fans.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

This is definitely different than what is being reported in Denver


Elvis Dumervil and the Denver Broncos appear to be heading toward an impasse.

NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reported Thursday that the Broncos reached out to Dumervil's agent, Marty Magid, to discuss the defensive end's contract situation. Magid said Dumervil is open to a restructure if it benefits both parties, but he is resistant to any scenario in which he takes a pay cut from his $12 million salary.

Of course, a pay cut is exactly what the Broncos want.

For the time being, Magid is painting a sunny picture. He told Rapoport that "everything is positive about the situation" and made it clear Dumervil's preference is to remain with the Broncos.

rest - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000148720/article/elvis-dumervil-not-open-to-denver-broncos-pay-cut

[MOtorboat]

This is definitely different than what is being reported in Denver



rest - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000148720/article/elvis-dumervil-not-open-to-denver-broncos-pay-cut

There are ways to allow Dumervil to make that money and lessen the cap hit. That's where that article completely misses the point.

[Dapper Dan]

There are ways to allow Dumervil to make that money and lessen the cap hit. That's where that article completely misses the point.

I read somewhere else that they didn't simply want more cap room, but wanted him to take an actual pay cut. I just feel like there are too many different reports.

[DenBronx]

They are just going to move his money around. Gives us a couple more years and will probably back end the rest. We could always cut him later if we had to or force him to take less money if he doesnt play up to par with his contract. I suspect Dume will live up to it though.

[BroncoWave]

They are just going to move his money around. Gives us a couple more years and will probably back end the rest. We could always cut him later if we had to or force him to take less money if he doesnt play up to par with his contract. I suspect Dume will live up to it though.

If they back-end it but don't cut any salary he'll be making like 20 mil a year at the end of the deal. To live up to that he'd have to be challenging the sack record. Not sure I see that happening.

[HammeredOut]

There are ways to allow Dumervil to make that money and lessen the cap hit. That's where that article completely misses the point.

The Jets would take Dummerville for Revis straight up. What about entertaining the idea of sending Champ with him for a draft pick, and sign Charles Woodson, along with Freeney. Our team would be have Revis, with Woodson in double coverage. I think V.M can handle the rush. We need to upgrade at run defense, which would allow for a better run stopper at the End position.

[MOtorboat]

The Jets would take Dummerville for Revis straight up. What about entertaining the idea of sending Champ with him for a draft pick, and sign Charles Woodson, along with Freeney. Our team would be have Revis, with Woodson in double coverage. I think V.M can handle the rush. We need to upgrade at run defense, which would allow for a better run stopper at the End position.

Then we could trade Peyton Manning for Aaron Rodgers.

[Ravage!!!]

If they back-end it but don't cut any salary he'll be making like 20 mil a year at the end of the deal. To live up to that he'd have to be challenging the sack record. Not sure I see that happening.

You back-load a contract like you do any OTHER contract in the NFL... so that you can then, again, reposition the money with a new negotiation. That, or you transfer some of the salary into guaranteed, thus spreading the money over years of the contract. Back-loading is what EVERY contract is, and is nothing new, and doesn't blow up the cap. It's what GMs do to SAVE the cap.

[Mike]

The Jets would take Dummerville for Revis straight up. What about entertaining the idea of sending Champ with him for a draft pick, and sign Charles Woodson, along with Freeney. Our team would be have Revis, with Woodson in double coverage. I think V.M can handle the rush. We need to upgrade at run defense, which would allow for a better run stopper at the End position.

Not sure if you are being serious. :confused:

[BroncoWave]

Then we could trade Peyton Manning for Aaron Rodgers.

While we're at it let's see if we can get AP for Moreno.

[MOtorboat]

While we're at it let's see if we can get AP for Moreno.

That would probably take a draft pick too.

[MOtorboat]

Not sure if you are being serious. :confused:

I'm pretty sure he's quite serious.

[Lancane]

The Jets would take Dummerville for Revis straight up. What about entertaining the idea of sending Champ with him for a draft pick, and sign Charles Woodson, along with Freeney. Our team would be have Revis, with Woodson in double coverage. I think V.M can handle the rush. We need to upgrade at run defense, which would allow for a better run stopper at the End position.

People really need to realize that Madden is a game and doesn't reflect reality!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22751597/elvis-dumervil-broncos-continue-negotiations

[Tebowtime2011]

He is willing to restructure but not willing to take a pay cut, and the broncos want him to take a pay cut. See the dilemma?

[chazoe60]

The Jets would take Dummerville for Revis straight up. What about entertaining the idea of sending Champ with him for a draft pick, and sign Charles Woodson, along with Freeney. Our team would be have Revis, with Woodson in double coverage. I think V.M can handle the rush. We need to upgrade at run defense, which would allow for a better run stopper at the End position.


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


@ you not w/ you.

[Dzone]

How many more years can Doom play 16 games? He has always been a bit of a freak, since nobody else his size does what he does

[SR]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

@ you not w/ you.

If you think that's funny you should read his Avs and hockey posts.

:tool:

[chazoe60]

If you think that's funny you should read his Avs and hockey posts.

:tool:
Hey, leave him alone, he picks NFL games at a 95% clip.

[TXBRONC]

People really need to realize that Madden is a game and doesn't reflect reality!

Apparently he's already talked with the Jets and they're all for it.

[OrangeHoof]

It's all about *guaranteed* money. He can take less in 2013 as long as the guaranteed money in the contract stays the same.

Elway practically pioneered the concept of taking less money so the team would be in a better position to win the Super Bowl. Those two rings on his hand are what he got for taking less money. If anybody can sell that idea, it would be John Elway.

[Northman]

It's all about *guaranteed* money. He can take less in 2013 as long as the guaranteed money in the contract stays the same.

Elway practically pioneered the concept of taking less money so the team would be in a better position to win the Super Bowl. Those two rings on his hand are what he got for taking less money. If anybody can sell that idea, it would be John Elway.


Yea, its all about how you approach it with a player. But considering John's history i have all the confidence in the world they can work something out.

[Ravage!!!]

He is willing to restructure but not willing to take a pay cut, and the broncos want him to take a pay cut. See the dilemma?

No. It all comes down to what the player ends UP with in the end. Guaranteed money is what the sticking point is, and if you give him 12 million signing bonus over the next 4 years, then that is only 3 million against the cap (plus salary). But Doom is guaranteed that 12 million, and still takes a cut in salary.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I think we're starting to see the effects of having 14% of the salary cap allocated to one player.

[BroncoWave]

I think we're starting to see the effects of having 14% of the salary cap allocated to one player.

Every single team in the NFL would allocate that much to a QB on Peyton Manning's level and not think twice about it. You just don't win in this league without a big time QB.

[Ravage!!!]

I think we're starting to see the effects of having 14% of the salary cap allocated to one player.

Not really. Can you imagine where we would be if we had the kind of talent at QB that doesn't demand top dollar? We did see before Manning was here.

[OrangeHoof]

Every single team in the NFL would allocate that much to a QB on Peyton Manning's level and not think twice about it. You just don't win in this league without a big time QB.

And last year, Joe Flacco made...

Colin Kapernick made...

I'm sorry. What was your point again?

[Poet]

Flacco actually played like a big time QB for the first time in his life. Colin K got there off of his coaches and his defense. I know what BTB's saying.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Elvis Dumervil said he was open to a restructured deal with the Denver Broncos this week. The defensive end is guaranteed $12 million if he's on the roster March 16 and the team wants that number lowered.

"Elvis is a Broncos and he wants to remain a Bronco," Dumervil's agent Marty Magid told Denver Post reporter Mike Klis. "We have exchanged proposals and we're waiting to hear back from them."

rest - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000149132/article/report-elvis-dumervil-waiting-on-broncos-response

[tomjonesrocks]

Fat Man saying Elvis as good as gone.
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/james-harrison-cut-boldin-and-dumervil-likely-to-follow-nfl-transactions

Pretty ******* sick of this shit.

[SR]

Fat Man saying Elvis as good as gone.
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/james-harrison-cut-boldin-and-dumervil-likely-to-follow-nfl-transactions

Pretty ******* sick of this shit.

Seems legit

[atwater27]

Maybe the Broncos just don't want to overpay a DE who, regardless of his sack production, just gets road graded on running plays and passing plays where his finesse and speed fail.

[DenBronx]

Fat Man saying Elvis as good as gone.
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/james-harrison-cut-boldin-and-dumervil-likely-to-follow-nfl-transactions

Pretty ******* sick of this shit.

fatman actually pretty on point with the Manning story last offseason.

I really don't think this is a smart move by the Broncos.

Sorry John, I can't get behind you on this move. You would need to sign both Osi and Freeney to make me feel better and maybe even Ed Reed and Harrison. I don't like moving Elvis...hope he just takes a little less money for us fans.

[Poet]

Maybe the Broncos just don't want to overpay a DE who, regardless of his sack production, just gets road graded on running plays and passing plays where his finesse and speed fail.

I thought his play against the run improved and was passable?

[SR]

fatman actually pretty on point with the Manning story last offseason.

I really don't think this is a smart move by the Broncos.

Sorry John, I can't get behind you on this move. You would need to sign both Osi and Freeney to make me feel better and maybe even Ed Reed and Harrison. I don't like moving Elvis...hope he just takes a little less money for us fans.

You would want to sign every major defensive player in FA to make up for Elvis? LMFAO. Talk about drastic.

[BroncoWave]

And last year, Joe Flacco made...

Colin Kapernick made...

I'm sorry. What was your point again?

You're right, one season outweighs the overwhelming trend of elite QBs winning Super Bowls in recent history. What was I thinking?

[SR]

I thought his play against the run improved and was passable?

His play against the run was much improved last season.

[DenBronx]

You would want to sign every major defensive player in FA to make up for Elvis? LMFAO. Talk a out drastic.


lol yeah....thats the only thing that would make me feel better.


Ok realistic I would say just Osi. I dont like Freeney and think he is even more one demensional that Elvis.

We of course still need to get DJs money off the books. Leaves a huge need for ILB and DE.

[SR]

lol yeah....thats the only thing that would make me feel better.

Ok realistic I would say just Osi. I dont like Freeney and think he is even more one demensional that Elvis.

We of course still need to get DJs money off the books. Leaves a huge need for ILB and DE.

I would be happy if Elvis restructured. All the other shit is just here say so far. No sense in getting stressed about it.

[DenBronx]

I would be happy if Elvis restructured. All the other shit is just here say so far. No sense in getting stressed about it.

I'm pretty worried about it, although I will say Elvis did get more than what I think he is worth right now.

The Broncos need to put a new deal on the table for Elvis and hopefully Elvis takes it to stay. I remember him being one of the guys most excited about Manning coming here and thinking they could win championship together. Sounds like Elvis hasnt heard any offers from the Broncos as of yet.

My worst fear is that they feel comfortable with just Robert Ayers and Vickerson as the starters next season.

[SR]

I'm pretty worried about it, although I will say Elvis did get more than what I think he is worth right now.

The Broncos need to put a new deal on the table for Elvis and hopefully Elvis takes it to stay. I remember him being one of the guys most excited about Manning coming here and thinking they could win championship together. Sounds like Elvis hasnt heard any offers from the Broncos as of yet.

My worst fear is that they feel comfortable with just Robert Ayers and Vickerson as the starters next season.

The team is in good hands. I'm not wortied

[MOtorboat]

lol yeah....thats the only thing that would make me feel better.


Ok realistic I would say just Osi. I dont like Freeney and think he is even more one demensional that Elvis.

We of course still need to get DJs money off the books. Leaves a huge need for ILB and DE.

Umenyiora won't be a Bronco, so you can end that fantasy now.

[OrangeHoof]

You're right, one season outweighs the overwhelming trend of elite QBs winning Super Bowls in recent history. What was I thinking?

Actually, it is a faulty premise because SB wins = Elite QB. So, ergo, you have to spend a ton of money to get an elite QB but did the Patriots spend a lot to get Tom Brady? Did the Packers spend a lot to get Brett Favre? No. They paid a lot for them after they had proven themselves as "elite" QBs. And most of the elites actually thrived in a system that matched their skills more than their skills defining the system.

[CoachChaz]

Maybe the Broncos just don't want to overpay a DE who, regardless of his sack production, just gets road graded on running plays and passing plays where his finesse and speed fail.

Logic is not allowed in this thread

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Contract talks between the Broncos and defensive end Elvis Dumervil are lacking talk.

There has been no communication between the two sides since Dumervil’s agent Marty Magid sent in his restructuring proposal Friday.

“Elvis has been working out, he’s healthy, he feels great,” Magid said. “He wants to stay with the Broncos. Right now, we’re waiting to hear back from them.”

rest - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2013/03/10/elvis-dumervil-contract-talks-at-impasse/18798/

[atwater27]

rest - http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2013/03/10/elvis-dumervil-contract-talks-at-impasse/18798/

That kind of statement from Dumervil's camp is not an encouraging sign. I would say Denver is ready to move on without him.

[broncohead]

I wonder if there can be some sort of trade package with dume and dj. If we lose dume then that just leaves another hole on the DL.

[turftoad]

I don't like this. I don't like it at all. I do however like Doom. Hell, we drafted him. He's a Bronco. He's been here since day one and he's damn good.
I just hope they can work it out. I do agree we payed him to much and he needs to restructure but we just need to work this out.

I would not like to see him in another jersey.

[dogfish]

this ****ing blows! :tsk:


yes, the guy is overpaid, but that's the NFL-- and we're not in bad cap shape ATM. . . i'm going to be so furious if we release an impact pass rusher over salary, and trot out some washed up old stiff like the corpse of freeney or abraham. . . i mean, it's one thing if they turn around and use the money to go after dashon goldson and danelle ellerbe, but it's incredibly frustrating to risk taking a step back on defense after making such progress last year just so bowlen can stack some extra shekels. . .

:mad:

[Poet]

Ellerbee is a one year producer who is what, 30 years old? Come on Dog, if you guys made that switch I would laugh at you. Dumervil is going to get paid big money next season. It will probably still enter his pocket from Mr. Bowlen.

[CoachChaz]

I think Denver is more content to look at Irving/Johnson in the middle instead of over-paying Ellerbe.

[Northman]

this ****ing blows! :tsk:


yes, the guy is overpaid, but that's the NFL-- and we're not in bad cap shape ATM. . . i'm going to be so furious if we release an impact pass rusher over salary, and trot out some washed up old stiff like the corpse of freeney or abraham. . ., but it's incredibly frustrating to risk taking a step back on defense after making such progress last year just so bowlen can stack some extra shekels. . .

:mad:


Yeeeeeeeep.

[Northman]

Ellebre is overrated.

[Lancane]

That kind of statement from Dumervil's camp is not an encouraging sign. I would say Denver is ready to move on without him.

Actually, according to the post - Doom's camp is waiting for the Broncos to make the next move after serious discussions on Friday and they believe it's because the Broncos are looking at other pass rushers and seeing if the numbers for Dumervil are justifiable or if they can replace him for much less.

[CoachChaz]

Actually, according to the post - Doom's camp is waiting for the Broncos to make the next move after serious discussions on Friday and they believe it's because the Broncos are looking at other pass rushers and seeing if the numbers for Dumervil are justifiable or if they can replace him for much less.

Yeah, it doesnt take much to read between the lines. Pretty obvious that Denver is looking at a comparison of Doom's parameters and what's available in FA. Also heard Dumervil's camp wants an answer by a specific time Tuesday morning so they can field offers if necessary.

[Lancane]

Yeah, it doesnt take much to read between the lines. Pretty obvious that Denver is looking at a comparison of Doom's parameters and what's available in FA. Also heard Dumervil's camp wants an answer by a specific time Tuesday morning so they can field offers if necessary.

Typical Agent Hardball, that is probably what is going on for most of today for Denver, calling certain agents for the defensive ends they like and comparing what they're looking for contract wise to Doom's own. If they are unsure come this evening, they'll probably let Dumervil's agent field inquiries to what he is worth to other teams, if he hasn't already, either way - we likely won't know anything till tomorrow evening at the earliest.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi

Not sure who Broncos are targeting. But if they come to terms with Freeney or Umenyiora by 2pm tomorrow, then Elvis may leave the building

[CoachChaz]

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi

Not sure who Broncos are targeting. But if they come to terms with Freeney or Umenyiora by 2pm tomorrow, then Elvis may leave the building

If it happens...please ket it be Osi

[Lancane]

I don't think it's Freeney, according to multiple reports he wants to play for a contender on the east coast - unless Manning has worked him to want otherwise...but the two teams he is being linked to are New England and New York. I think it's more likely Umenyiora - at least I hope, because Freeney is a downgrade.

[tomjonesrocks]

Reason #276 why to never buy current player jerseys in Denver.

[Northman]

If it happens...please ket it be Osi

Knowing Denver and the fact we have Manning it would probably be Freeney which would suck.

[CoachChaz]

If it happens...please ket it be Osi

Knowing Denver and the fact we have Manning it would probably be Freeney which would suck.

Yeah, but as Lancane said, I heard his first choice is NY since he is from NY. Not sure of the reality of it happening though

[CoachChaz]

Reason #276 why to never buy current player jerseys in Denver.

Just got a Doom jersey for one of my boys for Xmas. Only cost me $20 though

[Northman]

Reason #276 why to never buy current player jerseys in Denver.

Indeed.

Supposedly im getting one for my birthday coming up and i gave them a list to choose by. Doom was one of them so i hope they went with Miller instead.

Its going to really piss me off though if we let Doom walk.

[CoachChaz]

Indeed.

Supposedly im getting one for my birthday coming up and i gave them a list to choose by. Doom was one of them so i hope they went with Miller instead.

Its going to really piss me off though if we let Doom walk.

Depends. If he walks and we do nothing to replace him, it will be tough to swallow. But if he walks and the cap space lands us another pass rusher as well as room to fix another spot. I'm good with it.

Just call him and tell him to accept whatever the team thinks is proper value.

[Mike]

Depends. If he walks and we do nothing to replace him, it will be tough to swallow. But if he walks and the cap space lands us another pass rusher as well as room to fix another spot. I'm good with it.

Just call him and tell him to accept whatever the team thinks is proper value.

To let him just walk is beyond stupidity. It is horrible business. Doom is a big asset and is worth something to this league. If you can't get him to restructure at least attempt to work something out that would make a trade possible. If he just walks then that will be a big failure for this FO in my book.

[Lancane]

To let him just walk is beyond stupidity. It is horrible business. Doom is a big asset and is worth something to this league. If you can't get him to restructure at least attempt to work something out that would make a trade possible. If he just walks then that will be a big failure for this FO in my book.

I have to agree with you on this Mike, even if we sign another pass rusher to let Dumervil go for simply nothing is idiocy, even if it's a mid round pick.

[Northman]

To let him just walk is beyond stupidity. It is horrible business. Doom is a big asset and is worth something to this league. If you can't get him to restructure at least attempt to work something out that would make a trade possible. If he just walks then that will be a big failure for this FO in my book.

Agreed.

You simply cant win championships by cutting the only talent that you have on your team. There is no one currently that can put out that kind of production on this team and "hoping" that a guy like Freeney has something left or that a guy like Osi wants to even come here is a huge gamble.

[CoachChaz]

Yet...it happens all the time.

I'm not advocating it and if we could get a trade partner involved, that would be great. But I dont see another team taking on his salary as it currently matches to his production. And definitely not when they can wait for Denver to cut him and sign him to a much cheaper deal.

[Lancane]

Yet...it happens all the time.

I'm not advocating it and if we could get a trade partner involved, that would be great. But I dont see another team taking on his salary as it currently matches to his production. And definitely not when they can wait for Denver to cut him and sign him to a much cheaper deal.

But his contract can be reworked before a trade, it happens more often then we know, especially if it guarantees a team his services and stops them from having to renegotiate an entire new contract.

[CoachChaz]

But his contract can be reworked before a trade, it happens more often then we know, especially if it guarantees a team his services and stops them from having to renegotiate an entire new contract.

I can, but then you're just guaranteeing him more money and there is no telling if a team is interested in that or not. Considering the frequency with which players are cut, compared to the infrequency they are re-negotioated and traded, I dont think these deals happen very often.

[BroncoNut]

that's great, but it's a little too late Elvis. we heard you were going to put us on a shelf. Well We've got some news for you that you'll soon find out is true. and you'll have eat your lunch all by yourself.

[Lancane]

I can, but then you're just guaranteeing him more money and there is no telling if a team is interested in that or not. Considering the frequency with which players are cut, compared to the infrequency they are re-negotioated and traded, I dont think these deals happen very often.

True, and I have to admit I've never seen an off-season where we've seen so many starters cut as this year either and they are still going.

[NightTerror218]

True, and I have to admit I've never seen an off-season where we've seen so many starters cut as this year either and they are still going.

So many inflated contracts. Everyone is cutting back to get under caps. Guess a lot of back loaded contracts.

[CoachChaz]

Well, the cap was higher a few years ago and the back-loaded contracts are popping up and creating problems.


By the way, Dallas just cut Dan Connor...for all those that wanted him so badly last year

[Lancane]

Well, the cap was higher a few years ago and the back-loaded contracts are popping up and creating problems.


By the way, Dallas just cut Dan Connor...for all those that wanted him so badly last year

I saw that, another starter hitting free agency. And Hall was cut as well.

[DenBronx]

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi

Not sure who Broncos are targeting. But if they come to terms with Freeney or Umenyiora by 2pm tomorrow, then Elvis may leave the building

Umenyiora

[Lancane]

Umenyiora

It may be neither, it could be Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril or William Hayes.

[CoachChaz]

It may be neither, it could be Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril or William Hayes.

I think Avril will want a big contract and may be better off as a 3-4 joker. I really like Bennett, but I heard a rumor that him and his brother are kind of a "package deal". Weird, and if we needed a TE, I'd happily bring in Martellus as well...but I'm not sure we go that route

[Lancane]

I think Avril will want a big contract and may be better off as a 3-4 joker. I really like Bennett, but I heard a rumor that him and his brother are kind of a "package deal". Weird, and if we needed a TE, I'd happily bring in Martellus as well...but I'm not sure we go that route

I've heard nothing about him and his brother being a package deal...all I've heard is that he really wants to and then really doesn't want to return to Tampa (multiple personalities?). You might be right about Avril, but it also depends if he comes cheaper then Doom.

[CoachChaz]

I've heard nothing about him and his brother being a package deal...all I've heard is that he really doesn't want to return to Tampa. You might be right about Avril, but it also depends if he comes cheaper then Doom.

I have a few eyes and ears in Aggieland, so I can usually hear some things about former students.

I could almost guarantee Avril gets less than Doom...but then I dont see ANY FA getting Doom money via free agency this year

[BigDaddyBronco]

I guess all this shows you is how important drafting well is to your salary cap. If you have younger quality guys backing up your vets you can cut guys lose without killing your team.

[DenBronx]

Still dont like letting Dume go and think it's going to hurt our defense. When you are this close you don't play games like this over a couple mill. I think this is the only move where I have disagree with Elway. He's seemed to hit the nail on the head on just about everything...

[CoachChaz]

If Doom is indeed traded or released, I'll be curious to see how he does in his new home. It seems like 10 sack guys arent as rare as they use to be, so finding a competent replacement doesnt scare me.

[Lancane]

If Doom is indeed traded or released, I'll be curious to see how he does in his new home. It seems like 10 sack guys arent as rare as they use to be, so finding a competent replacement doesnt scare me.

Scares the hell out of me, Denver struggles to find even decent half-*** defensive lineman!

[CoachChaz]

Scares the hell out of me, Denver struggles to find even decent half-*** defensive lineman!

They have in the past, but our first significant additions to the line/pass-rush under Elway have been pretty good (Miller/Wolfe). I have faith in Elway to find the right parts if indeed Doom is not a part of the plan. he wont let him walk without a plan in place

[Lancane]

They have in the past, but our first significant additions to the line/pass-rush under Elway have been pretty good (Miller/Wolfe). I have faith in Elway to find the right parts if indeed Doom is not a part of the plan. he wont let him walk without a plan in place

You hope...

Of course you'll be "See it's alright they signed yadda-yadda", but if it's Freeney, Seymour or Osi, then we have to worry about geriatric issues!

[CoachChaz]

You hope...

Of course you'll be "See it's alright they signed yadda-yadda", but if it's Freeney, Seymour or Osi, then we have to worry about geriatric issues!

Just for you, I'll make sure I do that. And go check the leaders in sacks last season and tell me how many are older than Osi. You might be surprised

[NightTerror218]

Nobody will sign Doom for $12, he must see that and he should budge a little or calling Elways bluff.

[Buff]

Nobody will sign Doom for $12, he must see that and he should budge a little or calling Elways bluff.

Some team will definitely overpay for a proven pass rusher. Doom is calling Elway's bluff.

[Lancane]

Just for you, I'll make sure I do that. And go check the leaders in sacks last season and tell me how many are older than Osi. You might be surprised

You do that, and check how consistent they are as well! ;)

[NightTerror218]

Doom and Broncos at impasse. Doom asks for release Tuesday if he is being released.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22766805/elvis-dumervil-may-follow-d-j-williams-out-broncos

[Northman]

Such a big mistake by the FO. Elway and company wont budge though so i hope and wish the best for Doom wherever he goes.

[MOtorboat]

I'm really liking the "get rid of the good players even though we have the cap space" plan they seem to have.

I'm sure there's no way that will back fire.

[Northman]

They should just cut Manning. It would save so much cap space.

[BeefStew25]

I think With Von on one end, we don't need an aging vet making a ton. If any of you think this sounds stupid, I probably agree with you. I just want to interact.

[NightTerror218]

I think With Von on one end, we don't need an aging vet making a ton. If any of you think this sounds stupid, I probably agree with you. I just want to interact.

Miller is not rushing all the time. He is being dropped into coverage now. We still need to be able to get some pass rush with the front 4 or 3.

[BroncoWave]

I don't really get the outrage if we let him go. I'd rather him stay and restructure, but he is a one trick pony who is way overpaid for what he does, and we will still have a decent pass rush without him. Elway isn't stupid. He knows you don't stay competitive long term by putting yourself in cap hell. I don't think Dumervil makes or breaks our SB chances this year. He is a nice piece to have, but we won't be doomed (pardon the pun) without him.

Just look at all the other big teams in the AFC. Welker is likely gone in NE and the Ravens are being dismantled. The AFC is pretty wide-open this year. Dumervil is not as big as loss for us as Welker for NE or Boldin for the Ravens.

And if we can replace him with a Freeny or Osi, that would be a slight downgrade, but it would be enough to keep us afloat at that position.

[BroncoWave]

They should just cut Manning. It would save so much cap space.

Manning actually performs up to his contract. Dumervil does not.

[BeefStew25]

I think the exact opposite of whatever Bailey The Best wrote.

[Northman]

Manning actually performs up to his contract. Dumervil does not.

He does on this team. There is no one else on this squad that can perform like he does. And no, getting Freeney or Osi wont fix that either. Bank on it.

[Northman]

I think the exact opposite of whatever Bailey The Best wrote.

And you would be a winner.

[BroncoWave]

He does on this team. There is no one else on this squad that can perform like he does. And no, getting Freeney or Osi wont fix that either. Bank on it.

No, he doesn't. He's paid like a top-5 DE. He does not perform like one.

[MOtorboat]

I don't really get the outrage if we let him go. I'd rather him stay and restructure, but he is a one trick pony who is way overpaid for what he does, and we will still have a decent pass rush without him. Elway isn't stupid. He knows you don't stay competitive long term by putting yourself in cap hell. I don't think Dumervil makes or breaks our SB chances this year. He is a nice piece to have, but we won't be doomed (pardon the pun) without him.

Just look at all the other big teams in the AFC. Welker is likely gone in NE and the Ravens are being dismantled. The AFC is pretty wide-open this year. Dumervil is not as big as loss for us as Welker for NE or Boldin for the Ravens.

And if we can replace him with a Freeny or Osi, that would be a slight downgrade, but it would be enough to keep us afloat at that position.

We have no idea if any free agent defensive end wants to come to Denver. Hell, half the time they use teams as leverage against each other. So, you'd have to wait until you signed one to decide whether or not to release Dumervil.

That's a dick move, and a bad one.

[Northman]

Guys like BTB dont get it. We only have a small window to win a championship with Manning at the helm. You cant patch it up with has beens and expect them to perform like a guy who is proven on this team. We've tried patching with less talented players, it doesnt work.

[Buff]

We have no idea if any free agent defensive end wants to come to Denver. Hell, half the time they use teams as leverage against each other. So, you'd have to wait until you signed one to decide whether or not to release Dumervil.

That's a dick move, and a bad one.

It's not really a dick move so much as its smart business. We don't owe him anything beyond honoring the terms of the contract - which gives us until Friday to make a decision.

[BroncoWave]

We have no idea if any free agent defensive end wants to come to Denver. Hell, half the time they use teams as leverage against each other. So, you'd have to wait until you signed one to decide whether or not to release Dumervil.

That's a dick move, and a bad one.

What's a dick move? To wait to see if we get another DE before cutting Doom? If so I don't see how that is a dick move. That's a smart business move.

[BroncoWave]

Guys like BTB dont get it. We only have a small window to win a championship with Manning at the helm. You cant patch it up with has beens and expect them to perform like a guy who is proven on this team. We've tried patching with less talented players, it doesnt work.

Well I guess John Elway doesn't get it either then. What does he know about winning championships?

The dropoff from Doom to some of the available DEs really isn't that huge. Look at all of the players the other top AFC teams are losing. It's not like we're losing any ground in this race if we cut Doom.

[Northman]

Well I guess John Elway doesn't get it either then. What does he know about winning championships?

The dropoff from Doom to some of the available DEs really isn't that huge. Look at all of the players the other top AFC teams are losing. It's not like we're losing any ground in this race if we cut Doom.

Lmao, you make it sound like he is perfect in everything he does. Guess what, he's not.

[BroncoWave]

Lmao, you make it sound like he is perfect in everything he does. Guess what, he's not.

I never said he is perfect. But I do think he knows more about what it takes to put together a winning football team than you or I do.

[MOtorboat]

It's not really a dick move so much as its smart business. We don't owe him anything beyond honoring the terms of the contract - which gives us until Friday to make a decision.


What's a dick move? To wait to see if we get another DE before cutting Doom? If so I don't see how that is a dick move. That's a smart business move.

Broncos: Come sign with us, we've got a starting defensive end position open, and you know you won't get double teams because of Von Miller.

Player X: You already have two starting defensive ends.

Broncos: Oh, don't worry about that, we're going to cut the other guy.

Player X: So, you're going to dick over the last guy you signed to a good contract at my position...

I understand its a business, but players look at those things.

[MOtorboat]

Well I guess John Elway doesn't get it either then. What does he know about winning championships?

The dropoff from Doom to some of the available DEs really isn't that huge. Look at all of the players the other top AFC teams are losing. It's not like we're losing any ground in this race if we cut Doom.

Ugh, I'm about to say something I don't want to say, but...

Elway hasn't won a championship as an exec, so at this point, that's kind of a dumb thing to say. I do trust his skills in the front office, I'm just not so sure this is the right move.

[BroncoWave]

Broncos: Come sign with us, we've got a starting defensive end position open, and you know you won't get double teams because of Von Miller.

Player X: You already have two starting defensive ends.

Broncos: Oh, don't worry about that, we're going to cut the other guy.

Player X: So, you're going to dick over the last guy you signed to a good contract at my position...

I understand its a business, but players look at those things.

I think players or more concerned about A) Getting paid, and B) Having a chance to win.

[Mike]

Manning actually performs up to his contract. Dumervil does not.

Do you even watch Bronco games? Not all performance ends with a sack. He is constantly getting pressure and forcing QBs to either dump off, throw away, and incomplete. Despite being choke held on near every rush. I remember Denver without a pass rush and am not looking forward to going back to that time.

His contract should be reworked. But you do not outright cut one of your defensive stars. This is one of the more stupid moves I've seen a FO make and that says something after living through McD.

[BroncoWave]

Ugh, I'm about to say something I don't want to say, but...

Elway hasn't won a championship as an exec, so at this point, that's kind of a dumb thing to say. I do trust his skills in the front office, I'm just not so sure this is the right move.

Well he has in the AFL, granted it's not the same thing, but he has never been unsuccessful when running a team. And given that teams are cutting big time players left and right right now, it doesn't seem like Elway is in the minority in thinking that is a smart thing to do.

[BroncoWave]

Do you even watch Bronco games? Not all performance ends with a sack. He is constantly getting pressure and forcing QBs to either dump off, throw away, and incomplete. Despite being choke held on near every rush. I remember Denver without a pass rush and am not looking forward to going back to that time.

His contract should be reworked. But you do not outright cut one of your defensive stars. This is one of the more stupid moves I've seen a FO make and that says something after living through McD.

They are trying to restructure, but Doom doesn't seem to willing. If Doom can get what he is making now on the open market I will come on here and eat my words, but I bet it doesn't happen.

[MOtorboat]

I think players or more concerned about A) Getting paid, and B) Having a chance to win.

You've changed your tune on the subject, then.

[Buff]

Broncos: Come sign with us, we've got a starting defensive end position open, and you know you won't get double teams because of Von Miller.

Player X: You already have two starting defensive ends.

Broncos: Oh, don't worry about that, we're going to cut the other guy.

Player X: So, you're going to dick over the last guy you signed to a good contract at my position...

I understand its a business, but players look at those things.

No they don't.

You might have a point if the Broncos had franchised him two years in a row and then cut him in lieu of doing a long term deal. Or if they'd promised him a contract and then backed out... But no one is going to think any less of the Broncos for trying to restructure a huge $$ deal. And nobody is going to weep for Elvis, who will find big $$ in free agency is he is cut.

[BroncoWave]

You've changed your tune on the subject, then.

How so?

[spikerman]

I just hope to hell the plan isn't for Ayers to replace him.

[MOtorboat]

How so?

I've seen you make numerous statements about taking care of players so free agents will see that Denver is a class organization. I'm not going to go digging them up.

And to clear something up, I'm strictly speaking about if Denver doesn't cut Dumervil between now and 4 EDT tomorrow, then signs a guy and releases Dumervil at the Saturday deadline. So, releasing Dumervil is not the dick move, waiting to do so until you have someone lined up because you have a three day buffer is.

[BroncoWave]

I've seen you make numerous statements about taking care of players so free agents will see that Denver is a class organization. I'm not going to go digging them up.

And to clear something up, I'm strictly speaking about if Denver doesn't cut Dumervil between now and 4 EDT tomorrow, then signs a guy and releases Dumervil at the Saturday deadline. So, releasing Dumervil is not the dick move, waiting to do so until you have someone lined up because you have a three day buffer is.

I still think that's an important thing to do, but I don't think this is a situation that will reflect poorly upon Denver. This regime didn't sign him to the contract he has now, and no one will fault them for trying to get out of it.

And since it seems now that Doom would rather be cut than restructure anyway, I doubt he'd have any qualms with Denver signing his replacement before doing so.

[MOtorboat]

I still think that's an important thing to do, but I don't think this is a situation that will reflect poorly upon Denver. This regime didn't sign him to the contract he has now, and no one will fault them for trying to get out of it.

And since it seems now that Doom would rather be cut than restructure anyway, I doubt he'd have any qualms with Denver signing his replacement before doing so.

He's requested to be released by the deadline tomorrow if they haven't come to an agreement, so I'm guessing he will have qualms.

[BroncoWave]

He's requested to be released by the deadline tomorrow if they haven't come to an agreement, so I'm guessing he will have qualms.

Personally I think this is a moot point and I think we'll have someone lined up by tomorrow anyway.

[Poet]

Who is going to replace him?

[MOtorboat]

Who is going to replace him?

Player X in free agency, apparently. Or Ayers.

[Mike]

Who is going to replace him?

A guy named No pass rush. Aka...burnt toast secondary.

[Poet]

Player X in free agency, apparently. Or Ayers.

How does that make you feel?

[MOtorboat]

How does that make you feel?

Queasy.

[BroncoWave]

A guy named No pass rush. Aka...burnt toast secondary.

Yep, you're right. No player in free agency is capable of rushing the passer. Doom is the only guy who can do it.

[Poet]

Yep, you're right. No player in free agency is capable of rushing the passer. Doom is the only guy who can do it.

Pass rushers are one of the most important facets in this game. If you have a guy who does his job, like Doom, it's rare to just get rid of them. Doom isn't exactly a spring chicken, but he's not decrepit, either.

[Mike]

Yep, you're right. No player in free agency is capable of rushing the passer. Doom is the only guy who can do it.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k145/bubba_thudd/9QEfL8P_zps547f4e20.gif

[BroncoWave]

Pass rushers are one of the most important facets in this game. If you have a guy who does his job, like Doom, it's rare to just get rid of them. Doom isn't exactly a spring chicken, but he's not decrepit, either.

We have two other guys who can rush the passer in Miller and Wolfe. People act like we are getting rid of the only guy we have capable of generating pressure. I seriously don't get it.

[Lancane]

I don't really get the outrage if we let him go. I'd rather him stay and restructure, but he is a one trick pony who is way overpaid for what he does, and we will still have a decent pass rush without him. Elway isn't stupid. He knows you don't stay competitive long term by putting yourself in cap hell. I don't think Dumervil makes or breaks our SB chances this year. He is a nice piece to have, but we won't be doomed (pardon the pun) without him.

Just look at all the other big teams in the AFC. Welker is likely gone in NE and the Ravens are being dismantled. The AFC is pretty wide-open this year. Dumervil is not as big as loss for us as Welker for NE or Boldin for the Ravens.

And if we can replace him with a Freeny or Osi, that would be a slight downgrade, but it would be enough to keep us afloat at that position.

Welker is re-signing with the Pats per several NFL sources. And Freeney or Osi might be big downgrades if their geriatric natures kick in.

[BroncoWave]

It's funny how people constantly bash posters who suggest we bring in all of the big name FA's by saying something about how real life NFL isn't like Madden, but those same posters expect us to be able to just pay out the ass for any decent player we have and there be no consequences to it.

[Mike]

It's funny how people constantly bash posters who suggest we bring in all of the big name FA's by saying something about how real life NFL isn't like Madden, but those same posters expect us to be able to just pay out the ass for any decent player we have and there be no consequences to it.

You're right. In fact, I don't know how you tolerate us. You should just leave and find somewhere that has people that are as smart as you.

[Lancane]

We have two other guys who can rush the passer in Miller and Wolfe. People act like we are getting rid of the only guy we have capable of generating pressure. I seriously don't get it.

Wolfe can apply some pressure, but you need a defensive end who can get to the passer more then Wolfe does to make Miller effective. Miller's numbers will decline without a solid pass rusher upfront and that is not Wolfe - he's solid, but no pass rush specialist.

[Poet]

We have two other guys who can rush the passer in Miller and Wolfe. People act like we are getting rid of the only guy we have capable of generating pressure. I seriously don't get it.

It's a series of connection, BTB. Von Miller is a stud, but obviously it's beneficial for him to have Doom and vice versa. Wolfe is good, but he's not Geno Atkins - holy **** I can actually cite one of my own players as the best at his position, weird - how many more sacks do you expect him to get?

[BroncoWave]

You're right. In fact, I don't know how you tolerate us. You should just leave and find somewhere that has people that are as smart as you.

You sure do seem obsessed with me Mike. Seems like whenever I'm in a thread you aren't far behind with your commentary on me. :lol:

[Slick]

Some of you guys must have forgotten how painful it was to count to 8 mississippi while watching opposing QBs scan the field against us.

[Poet]

Some of you guys must have forgotten how painful it was to count to 8 mississippi while watching opposing QBs scan the field against us.

Those Slowick days were rough on you guys.

[Lancane]

Some of you guys must have forgotten how painful it was to count to 8 mississippi while watching opposing QBs scan the field against us.

Let's see how long the count is without a pass rusher and they'll be singing a different tune Slick. ;)

[Mike]

You sure do seem obsessed with me Mike. Seems like whenever I'm in a thread you aren't far behind with your commentary on me. :lol:

Kind of hard to miss you when you post in every thread, act like you know everything, and treat anyone who disagrees with you as if they are an idiot.

[NightTerror218]

if doom is cut then we will have

ayers/wolfe/beal/hunter is that about who is left on the roster?

IMO cutting Doom will leave a problem on DL, we are already losing 2 players, making another hole is going to make us have bandaids all over the line. We do not need that. Need consistency with out players.

[Lancane]

if doom is cut then we will have

ayers/wolfe/beal/hunter is that about who is left on the roster?

IMO cutting Doom will leave a problem on DL, we are already losing 2 players, making another hole is going to make us have bandaids all over the line. We do not need that. Need consistency with out players.

Hunter is a UFA, he's not on the roster either.

[spikerman]

Mr. Elway, please call me. I can probably put as much pressure on the QB as Ayers has been able to up until now - and I'll do it for 1/2 of his salary.

[SR]

I think who ever lines up opposite Miller will ultimately benefit from Miller. If Denver were to sign someone like Freeney or Avril both Miller and the new DE would still see 10+ sacks. Losing Doom would/will suck, but its not the end of the world. He'll go to another team that isn't as good as Denver that doesn't have Von and he won't produce like he did. He may get lucky and land a job as an OLB in a 3-4, but its a moot point. If he leaves, he leaves. Denver is a high profile team considered by everyone to be a Super Bowl contender...free agents WANT to be a Bronco now. Finding a replacement won't be a problem.

[Lancane]

I think who ever lines up opposite Miller will ultimately benefit from Miller. If Denver were to sign someone like Freeney or Avril both Miller and the new DE would still see 10+ sacks. Losing Doom would/will suck, but its not the end of the world. He'll go to another team that isn't as good as Denver that doesn't have Von and he won't produce like he did. He may get lucky and land a job as an OLB in a 3-4, but its a moot point. If he leaves, he leaves. Denver is a high profile team considered by everyone to be a Super Bowl contender...free agents WANT to be a Bronco now. Finding a replacement won't be a problem.

Red, when you have one primary concern as a coordinator compared to two, it's easier to focus on the threat and null that player's ability. I don't see coordinators doing that for Freeney or Osi, even Seymour might not garner that much respect anymore. It's easy to believe that the loss of one won't effect the other - but it will.

[NightTerror218]

I think who ever lines up opposite Miller will ultimately benefit from Miller. If Denver were to sign someone like Freeney or Avril both Miller and the new DE would still see 10+ sacks. Losing Doom would/will suck, but its not the end of the world. He'll go to another team that isn't as good as Denver that doesn't have Von and he won't produce like he did. He may get lucky and land a job as an OLB in a 3-4, but its a moot point. If he leaves, he leaves. Denver is a high profile team considered by everyone to be a Super Bowl contender...free agents WANT to be a Bronco now. Finding a replacement won't be a problem.

you are lying to yourself if you think Miller gets no help having Doom on DL. Doom is considered a great pass rusher, o ya and multi-pro bowl rated DE. he makes plays. I dont want a guy who can be a pass rusher I wont an impact player. SB teams do not have 'average players' all over roster. They have pro bowlers scattered all around. We already have some holes and depth issues, why make more. I would take Osi and that is it. Osi is more one dimensional then doom is. Doom got better against the run.

[SR]

Red, when you have one primary concern as a coordinator compared to two, it's easier to focus on the threat and null that player's ability. I don't see coordinators doing that for Freeney or Osi, even Seymour might not garner that much respect anymore. It's easy to believe that the loss of one won't effect the other - but it will.

I understand that. But I guess I trust management that if Dumervil is released they have a backup plan. The front office wants to win and there's no saying that Freeney or Avril don't have a couple of 10+ sack seasons in them. Playing with a lead the majority of the time also helps the defense.

[SR]

you are lying to yourself if you think Miller gets no help having Doom on DL. Doom is considered a great pass rusher, o ya and multi-pro bowl rated DE. he makes plays. I dont want a guy who can be a pass rusher I wont an impact player. SB teams do not have 'average players' all over roster. They have pro bowlers scattered all around. We already have some holes and depth issues, why make more. I would take Osi and that is it. Osi is more one dimensional then doom is. Doom got better against the run.

I never said anything like that. I know Von and Doom help each other...but another solid pass rusher could help Von, and visa-versa. I guess I just don't see Doom leaving as the end of the world like some of y'all.

[Lancane]

I understand that. But I guess I trust management that if Dumervil is released they have a backup plan. The front office wants to win and there's no saying that Freeney or Avril don't have a couple of 10+ sack seasons in them. Playing with a lead the majority of the time also helps the defense.

We'll see... People need to remember Jeff Ireland thought he had Peyton Manning in the bag and then whoops. And While I believe Elway is smarter, it's easy to get lost in the football world and make a fatal mistake, even if that fatality is in regards to personnel.

[NightTerror218]

I never said anything like that. I know Von and Doom help each other...but another solid pass rusher could help Von, and visa-versa. I guess I just don't see Doom leaving as the end of the world like some of y'all.

I do not see anyone in FA or in draft who can come in and out play him as we are trying to get to SB. We are tooled and ready to go and need tweeking, we do not need to rebuild the DL.

[SR]

We'll see... People need to remember Jeff Ireland thought he had Peyton Manning in the bag and then whoops. And While I believe Elway is smarter, it's easy to get lost in the football world and make a fatal mistake, even if that fatality is in regards to personnel.

I agree. It's a very, very fine line.

[NightTerror218]

for DL we have Ayers, Wolfe, Jackson, Unrein, garland, Siligia and Beal.

that screams scary line :rolleyes:

[SR]

for DL we have Ayers, Wolfe, Jackson, Unrein, garland, Siligia and Beal.

that screams scary line :rolleyes:

If you don't believe the front office will do everything they can to field the best possible team they can, including the defensive line, you're ignorant.

[Lancane]

I agree. It's a very, very fine line.

And that is what some on here forget, one wrong move and you're no longer favorites to win the Lombardi, your not even favorites to win the division.

All I have to say to Mr. Elway, you best have a plan in place and it would be best if it didn't include Colt re-treads.

[NightTerror218]

If you don't believe the front office will do everything they can to field the best possible team they can, including the defensive line, you're ignorant.

They can do everything they can but digging yourself a bigger hole into order to get on top does not help. They line already needs help and now they are losing a pro bowler out of it. And if they lose him and they miss out of all the top DEs and DTs in FA cause we know they are tight with money.

[SR]

They can do everything they can but digging yourself a bigger hole into order to get on top does not help. They line already needs help and now they are losing a pro bowler out of it. And if they lose him and they miss out of all the top DEs and DTs in FA cause we know they are tight with money.

Opening the checkbook to pay Manning $20mil per isn't exactly what i would call tight on money.

[SR]

And that is what some on here forget, one wrong move and you're no longer favorites to win the Lombardi, your not even favorites to win the division.

All I have to say to Mr. Elway, you best have a plan in place and it would be best if it didn't include Colt re-treads.

I have to believe that if Dumervil is released, Avril has to be their best option.

[BroncoWave]

They can do everything they can but digging yourself a bigger hole into order to get on top does not help. They line already needs help and now they are losing a pro bowler out of it. And if they lose him and they miss out of all the top DEs and DTs in FA cause we know they are tight with money.

We aren't tight with money, we are smart with it. There are plenty of DEs on the market who can come close to Dumervil's stats and be had for a fraction of the price. Elway realizes this. He isn't stupid.

[Lancane]

I have to believe that if Dumervil is released, Avril has to be their best option.

If it's Avril then I'd be okay with the move or Bennett from Tampa - but the pill would be bitter if it's Osi or Freeney, even Seymour would be tough to swallow.

[Slick]

We aren't tight with money, we are smart with it. There are plenty of DEs on the market who can come close to Dumervil's stats and be had for a fraction of the price. Elway realizes this. He isn't stupid.

Name them and the fraction that comes with them.

[BroncoWave]

Name them and the fraction that comes with them.

Cliff Avril, Dwight Freeny, and Osi Umenyoira can all get around 8-10 sacks and be had for less than the 12 million Dumervil would have made this season, in my opinion.

[NightTerror218]

Cliff Avril, Dwight Freeny, and Osi Umenyoira can all get around 8-10 sacks and be had for less than the 12 million Dumervil would have made this season, in my opinion.

I do not think they are as good a Doom. Freeney is on his way out of the NFL. Osi is extremely one dimensional. Avril is a poor mans Doom IMO but would be best option.

[dogfish]

god ****ing damn it!

:tsk: :tsk:

this is going to ruin the entire offseason for me. . . getting rid of impact talent blows goats. . . and **** the idea that some washed up old stiff is going to replace that impact. . . signing bennett or avril i could absolutely live with, but that's not going to happen-- those guys are also big talents in their prime, and they're going to want to get paid as well. . . nope, this is a money move, not a football move-- that means we're looking to go cheaper at the position, and that means some has-been like freeney. . . who also sucks against the run. . . but hey, we should get half of doom's sacks for about a third of the price! and we can still sign two more mediocre players, and pat can save some money. . . von will just have to suck it up and beat even more double teams. . .

:mad:

[NightTerror218]

god ****ing damn it!

:tsk: :tsk:

this is going to ruin the entire offseason for me. . . getting rid of impact talent blows goats. . . and **** the idea that some washed up old stiff is going to replace that impact. . . signing bennett or avril i could absolutely live with, but that's not going to happen-- those guys are also big talents in their prime, and they're going to want to get paid as well. . . nope, this is a money move, not a football move-- that means we're looking to go cheaper at the position, and that means some has-been like freeney or abraham. . . who also suck against the run. . . but hey, we should get half of doom's sacks for about a third of the price! and we can still sign two more mediocre players, and pat can save some money. . . von will just have to suck it up and beat even more double teams. . .

:mad:

i agree, its a all about money move. Does not make sense to me when you are on a clock with manning. You should make the push now, look for impact player in draft, keep ones you have and add depth in FA.

[Northman]

I do not think they are as good a Doom. Freeney is on his way out of the NFL. Osi is extremely one dimensional. Avril is a poor mans Doom IMO but would be best option.

^This

[Northman]

god ****ing damn it!

:tsk: :tsk:

this is going to ruin the entire offseason for me. . . getting rid of impact talent blows goats. . . and **** the idea that some washed up old stiff is going to replace that impact. . . signing bennett or avril i could absolutely live with, but that's not going to happen-- those guys are also big talents in their prime, and they're going to want to get paid as well. . . nope, this is a money move, not a football move-- that means we're looking to go cheaper at the position, and that means some has-been like freeney. . . who also sucks against the run. . . but hey, we should get half of doom's sacks for about a third of the price! and we can still sign two more mediocre players, and pat can save some money. . . von will just have to suck it up and beat even more double teams. . .

:mad:


Couldnt of said it any better. We have but a small window to win a championship. Downgrading the talent on the team is not the way to do it.

[Slick]

Cliff Avril, Dwight Freeny, and Osi Umenyoira can all get around 8-10 sacks and be had for less than the 12 million Dumervil would have made this season, in my opinion.

I don't think Freeney or Osi ever even sniff 10 sacks and 6 ff in a season for the rest of their careers. Avril should, he's only 26. He may be 6'3" but he weighs 260 and I wouldnt exactly call him a run stuffer coming off a 35 tackle season. Plus he made a shade over 10 mil last year. I'm not convinced. I'd rather have Doom even at 12 mil.

[G_Money]

god ****ing damn it!

:tsk: :tsk:

this is going to ruin the entire offseason for me. . . getting rid of impact talent blows goats. . . and **** the idea that some washed up old stiff is going to replace that impact. . . signing bennett or avril i could absolutely live with, but that's not going to happen-- those guys are also big talents in their prime, and they're going to want to get paid as well. . . nope, this is a money move, not a football move-- that means we're looking to go cheaper at the position, and that means some has-been like freeney. . . who also sucks against the run. . . but hey, we should get half of doom's sacks for about a third of the price! and we can still sign two more mediocre players, and pat can save some money. . . von will just have to suck it up and beat even more double teams. . .

:mad:

I will say that Doom is better as a 3-4 backer, and got his money as a 3-4 backer, than as a 4-3 end (fewer chances to fail in the running game). But with this being an uber-passing league now, and us wanting to rush the passer like crazy once we get all those Manning-led leads, I don't understand throwing away a pass-rushing asset still in his prime. If this was a Portis-for-Champ kind of thing, okay... but it ain't.

And damn is our DL getting weaker by the hour. I'm not throwing-things mad about this development, but based on our "two middle fingers" approach to any previous requests to upgrade the DL in past years, I'm sure by the end of the 2nd day of the draft I'll have :mad: face x 10. It's not something we seem to want to invest money in, and we don't have high draft-picks to invest either.

We better have a plan that isn't just "play 8 rotational scrubs on the DL and isn't Von shiny?"

~G

[BroncoWave]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

[Dzone]

We wont miss Dumervil. If he leaves Denver he will be mediocre. Hopefully an AFC West team. We will demolish him.

[Poet]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

The sky is not falling, but a big ole turd-comet just crashed on Denver.

[Timmy!]

I dont like....but IF, and its a big friggin if, we end up with Goldson+doom replacement (probably freeney just based on cost) and either Greene or Mendenhall i could live with it....but thats not gonna happen.

[GEM]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

This coming from the guy that says mc dumbass was not the worst thing to happen to Denver.

[BroncoWave]

I take pride in the fact that I don't overreact to things.

[tomjonesrocks]

god ****ing damn it!

:tsk: :tsk:

this is going to ruin the entire offseason for me. . . getting rid of impact talent blows goats. . . and **** the idea that some washed up old stiff is going to replace that impact. . . signing bennett or avril i could absolutely live with, but that's not going to happen-- those guys are also big talents in their prime, and they're going to want to get paid as well. . . nope, this is a money move, not a football move-- that means we're looking to go cheaper at the position, and that means some has-been like freeney. . . who also sucks against the run. . . but hey, we should get half of doom's sacks for about a third of the price! and we can still sign two more mediocre players, and pat can save some money. . . von will just have to suck it up and beat even more double teams. . .

:mad:

Ruins the offseason for me too.

The window is already closed. 2005 is back. The team has a defense to be feared and after one season start taking it apart. Unfathomable.

[MOtorboat]

I take pride in the fact that I don't overreact to things.

No one gives a shit.

[Poet]

I take pride in the fact that I don't overreact to things.

That's fine, my man. But how many top pass rushers in the league get asked to shed money, in their prime?

Overpaying a productive pass rusher is a good thing. It means you have a productive pass rusher.

[BroncoWave]

Ok well you guys enjoy your pity party. Nothing you can do to calm mass hysteria, so I'll just leave you guys to it.

[Poet]

Ok well you guys enjoy your pity party. Nothing you can do to calm mass hysteria, so I'll just leave you guys to it.

This statement doesn't apply to most of the posters in the thread.

[GEM]

Ok well you guys enjoy your pity party. Nothing you can do to calm mass hysteria, so I'll just leave you guys to it.

Sweet!!! Thanks!

[MOtorboat]

This statement doesn't apply to most of the posters in the thread.

BaileyTheBest doesn't overreact.

BaleyTheBest always knows what's best.

[BroncoWave]

That's fine, my man. But how many top pass rushers in the league get asked to shed money, in their prime?

Overpaying a productive pass rusher is a good thing. It means you have a productive pass rusher.

I'll respond to you on this one King since I respect your football knowledge and you're not one of the "sky is falling everything is doomed" people in this thread.

In the years Dumervil has played 4-3 DE in the NFL he has finished 14th (2012), 18th (2011), 43rd (2008), 6th (2007), and 22nd (2006) in sacks.

That's a grand total of one season (5 years ago) in the top 10. I wouldn't exactly quantify that as a "top pass rusher."

Is he a good pass rusher? Absolutely. Does he deserve the top-5 DE money that he gets? Absolutely not. I firmly believe that we will do just fine without him, and I can't wait to bump this thread when we do.

[Dzone]

We will be lucky if we get a sniff of 8-8 next season

[BroncoWave]

We will be lucky if we get a sniff of 8-8 next season

Hell we'll be lucky to win a game. Dumervil is out entire team man!

[MOtorboat]

Hell we'll be lucky to win a game. Dumervil is out entire team man!

I thought you were done?

[Poet]

I'll respond to you on this one King since I respect your football knowledge and you're not one of the "sky is falling everything is doomed" people in this thread.

In the years Dumervil has played 4-3 DE in the NFL he has finished 14th (2012), 18th (2011), 43rd (2008), 6th (2007), and 22nd (2006) in sacks.

That's a grand total of one season (5 years ago) in the top 10. I wouldn't exactly quantify that as a "top pass rusher."

Is he a good pass rusher? Absolutely. Does he deserve the top-5 DE money that he gets? Absolutely not. I firmly believe that we will do just fine without him, and I can't wait to bump this thread when we do.

Doom has been asked to switch positions back and forth, at least two times. I think that may have had an impact on his stats, at least from 4-3 to 3-4 back to 4-3 is something he's skilled enough to do, but it has to take some toll. When you factor that context in, it helps a lot.

I understand what Elway is trying to do. I get that, I appreciate it and he's said if he thinks it's in the interest of the team, he will do it. I think he's a fantastic GM.

However, you have two big time pass rushers. Wolfe provides middle pass rush and he is improving. You have Manning for this season and MAYBE next year. Your window is pretty set in stone with Manning.

With THAT context, this is a bad cut. Now I know that this is the NFL, and anything can happen. But realistically, where are you going to get those numbers from? It's not from FA, Freeney isn't getting double digit sacks in a single season again. At least not on a competitive team. Osi is going to cost a boatload as well, and he has his own set of baggage. The draft can offer some consolation as well, but how many rookies Aldon Smith it?

Now you can make the argument that they pick up six sacks here, three sacks here, two here, and that's fine. I get that as well because maybe you can tank the pass rush strength a bit and transfer improvement elsewhere. But when you're in the playoffs on third down, you can't honestly tell me that you want some FA and a rookie pinning their ears back instead of Doom.

[MOtorboat]

Doom has been asked to switch positions back and forth, at least two times. I think that may have had an impact on his stats, at least from 4-3 to 3-4 back to 4-3 is something he's skilled enough to do, but it has to take some toll. When you factor that context in, it helps a lot.

I understand what Elway is trying to do. I get that, I appreciate it and he's said if he thinks it's in the interest of the team, he will do it. I think he's a fantastic GM.

However, you have two big time pass rushers. Wolfe provides middle pass rush and he is improving. You have Manning for this season and MAYBE next year. Your window is pretty set in stone with Manning.

With THAT context, this is a bad cut. Now I know that this is the NFL, and anything can happen. But realistically, where are you going to get those numbers from? It's not from FA, Freeney isn't getting double digit sacks in a single season again. At least not on a competitive team. Osi is going to cost a boatload as well, and he has his own set of baggage. The draft can offer some consolation as well, but how many rookies Aldon Smith it?

Now you can make the argument that they pick up six sacks here, three sacks here, two here, and that's fine. I get that as well because maybe you can tank the pass rush strength a bit and transfer improvement elsewhere. But when you're in the playoffs on third down, you can't honestly tell me that you want some FA and a rookie pinning their ears back instead of Doom.

I know Dumervil's price tag is high this year, but with the cap room, and the lack of real talent on both the market and where the Broncos sit in the draft order, I'm thoroughly shocked they took such a hard line stance with him.

And you're right. None of the free agents will likely reach his productivity. It's really a strange move under the circumstances,

[BroncoWave]

Doom has been asked to switch positions back and forth, at least two times. I think that may have had an impact on his stats, at least from 4-3 to 3-4 back to 4-3 is something he's skilled enough to do, but it has to take some toll. When you factor that context in, it helps a lot.

I understand what Elway is trying to do. I get that, I appreciate it and he's said if he thinks it's in the interest of the team, he will do it. I think he's a fantastic GM.

However, you have two big time pass rushers. Wolfe provides middle pass rush and he is improving. You have Manning for this season and MAYBE next year. Your window is pretty set in stone with Manning.

With THAT context, this is a bad cut. Now I know that this is the NFL, and anything can happen. But realistically, where are you going to get those numbers from? It's not from FA, Freeney isn't getting double digit sacks in a single season again. At least not on a competitive team. Osi is going to cost a boatload as well, and he has his own set of baggage. The draft can offer some consolation as well, but how many rookies Aldon Smith it?

Now you can make the argument that they pick up six sacks here, three sacks here, two here, and that's fine. I get that as well because maybe you can tank the pass rush strength a bit and transfer improvement elsewhere. But when you're in the playoffs on third down, you can't honestly tell me that you want some FA and a rookie pinning their ears back instead of Doom.

The reason I'm not worried is because pretty much every top team in the AFC has had to dump really good players this offseason. At this point the only team I see as huge competition is the Pats. I think we were the best team in the AFC and despite losing Dumervil we still have enough talent to be right back at the top next year.

Will losing Doom hurt in certain situations? Maybe. But we still have an elite pass rusher in Miller and there are plenty of servicable guys we can get in free agency. While we will be taking a step back on the D-line, there is a good chance we could be taking a step forward in other positions via free agency such as RB and the defensive backfield.

As opposed to many in this thread I am looking at the bigger picture. Dumervil is literally the only major piece from last year's team that it looks like we will lose, and we have a chance to be much better at RB, DB, and ILB if we make the right moves. While we are taking a step back on the DL, we very likely could be taking steps forward in other positions.

While losing him will hurt a bit in that one area, I see no reason the team as a whole can't be just as good as if not better than it was last season.

[chazoe60]

The part that really bothers me is the fact that Doom was one of the few players I've ever seen in the era of FA who waited patiently and worked with the team to get a deal done. Remember when he even signed some kind of short term contract or whatever it was so he could go to minicamps? I remember something about that.

[MOtorboat]

The reason I'm not worried is because pretty much every top team in the AFC has had to dump really good players this offseason. At this point the only team I see as huge competition is the Pats. I think we were the best team in the AFC and despite losing Dumervil we still have enough talent to be right back at the top next year.

Will losing Doom hurt in certain situations? Maybe. But we still have an elite pass rusher in Miller and there are plenty of servicable guys we can get in free agency. While we will be taking a step back on the D-line, there is a good chance we could be taking a step forward in other positions via free agency such as RB and the defensive backfield.

As opposed to many in this thread I am looking at the bigger picture. Dumervil is literally the only major piece from last year's team that it looks like we will lose, and we have a chance to be much better at RB, DB, and ILB if we make the right moves. While we are taking a step back on the DL, we very likely could be taking steps forward in other positions.

While losing him will hurt a bit in that one area, I see no reason the team as a whole can't be just as good as if not better than it was last season.

That's the thing...

Denver didn't HAVE to do it. They can afford him this year. Not until next year does it start to become a concern.

[Poet]

BTB, you don't have to dump him. Why not hold the advantage by keeping him? He helps provide the lethal combination of Manning getting a lead and you guys killing a QB. If anything you guys should be getting rid of other players to bolster the pass rush.

Sometimes fiscal sense does not lead to good football decisions for a season. I know you don't want to cannibalize the future, but you're not. This is one of his big pay day seasons. He earned the money. Then he get moved, again.

It feels wrong.

[BroncoWave]

BTB, you don't have to dump him. Why not hold the advantage by keeping him? He helps provide the lethal combination of Manning getting a lead and you guys killing a QB. If anything you guys should be getting rid of other players to bolster the pass rush.

Sometimes fiscal sense does not lead to good football decisions for a season. I know you don't want to cannibalize the future, but you're not. This is one of his big pay day seasons. He earned the money. Then he get moved, again.

It feels wrong.

I would have preferred we restructured him to cut him, but Doom seems to made up his mind that he will have no part of that. I have a feeling Elway has someone lined up to replace him that will soften the blow of his departure.

I don't think Elway would indulge his wish to be cut if he didn't have a plan to replace him.

[Poet]

I would have preferred we restructured him to cut him, but Doom seems to made up his mind that we will have no part of that. I have a feeling Elway has someone lined up to replace him that will soften the blow of his departure.

I don't think Elway would indulge his wish to be cut if he didn't have a plan to replace him.

Ultimately this will decide the argument.

[BroncoWave]

Ultimately this will decide the argument.

If we don't sign anyone decent to replace him, then I will soften my view on this subject and question what Elway was thinking. But seeing as he hasn't even officially been cut yet and we don't know who we will get in free agency, I think it's crazy to panic right now. I'm not going to waste any of my energy getting angry about something that hasn't even happened yet.

[Northman]

This coming from the guy that says mc dumbass was not the worst thing to happen to Denver.


Timburnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[tomjonesrocks]

I better understand my friends that have abandoned being football fans and migrated to the UFC at times like this.

This type if shit is just ridiculous.

[Buff]

god ****ing damn it!

:tsk: :tsk:

this is going to ruin the entire offseason for me. . . getting rid of impact talent blows goats. . . and **** the idea that some washed up old stiff is going to replace that impact. . . signing bennett or avril i could absolutely live with, but that's not going to happen-- those guys are also big talents in their prime, and they're going to want to get paid as well. . . nope, this is a money move, not a football move-- that means we're looking to go cheaper at the position, and that means some has-been like freeney. . . who also sucks against the run. . . but hey, we should get half of doom's sacks for about a third of the price! and we can still sign two more mediocre players, and pat can save some money. . . von will just have to suck it up and beat even more double teams. . .

:mad:

C'mon dude. This ain't the Colorado Rockies or the Sacramento Kings shedding salary in the middle of the season when all hope is lost and management is pinching pennies. If he was worth $12 mil/yr then Bowlen would pay him.

I trust that if Elway and Co. actually get to the point where they're cutting Doom, then a.) they already have another DE signed and b.) are comfortable enough in their evaluation to know that he isn't a $12 mil/yr DE.

Give Dumervil credit, he is in a position to be one of the top paid DEs in the league whether he deserves it or not. I wouldn't give any of it back if I were him either. The franchise tag $ for DE is like $11.1. So if they cut him at $12 then they are really saying that he is not worth elite DE $$... All that said, I think they will just pay him.

[Army Bronco]

I wish we would keep him just cause I like how he plays and i feel he is one of the true Broncos left. But i would understand if we cut him having someone better taking over. I dont remember him making any crucial plays in the post season.

[TXBRONC]

Guys like BTB dont get it. We only have a small window to win a championship with Manning at the helm. You cant patch it up with has beens and expect them to perform like a guy who is proven on this team. We've tried patching with less talented players, it doesnt work.

Hey remember letting Dumervil walk and picking up some like Freeney or Umenyiora is only a slight down grade. It's not like Dumervil had double the sack totals of either of those player oh wait! Dumbassery at its finest.

[TXBRONC]

I don't think Freeney or Osi ever even sniff 10 sacks and 6 ff in a season for the rest of their careers. Avril should, he's only 26. He may be 6'3" but he weighs 260 and I wouldnt exactly call him a run stuffer coming off a 35 tackle season. Plus he made a shade over 10 mil last year. I'm not convinced. I'd rather have Doom even at 12 mil.

Back in their respective primes they would get those kind of numbers. For anyone to say that would could count on getting 8 to 10 sacks from either one of them isn't paying attention. Both Freeney and Umenyiora numbers have been moving downward over the last two to three years.

[Mike]

Back in their respective primes they would get those kind of numbers. For anyone to say that would could count on getting 8 to 10 sacks from either one of them isn't paying attention. Both Freeney and Umenyiora numbers have been moving downward over the last two to three years.

And those numbers are important. But uncounted is the amount of times his pressure directly resulted in an INT, throw away, short-throw, bad decision. These things might not be sacks, but they are important contibutions that get the other team off the field. And he does it despite getting held more than any DE I have seen (without the calls though).

Denver will survive, but when you are in the win-now mode and you are under the cap...the move is just stupid. I will wait and see what the FO does, but letting him walk for nothing....they better do something big.

[TXBRONC]

And those numbers are important. But uncounted is the amount of times his pressure directly resulted in an INT, throw away, short-throw, bad decision. These things might not be sacks, but they are important contibutions that get the other team off the field. And he does it despite getting held more than any DE I have seen (without the calls though).

Denver will survive, but when you are in the win-now mode and you are under the cap...the move is just stupid. I will wait and see what the FO does, but letting him walk for nothing....they better do something big.

I don't think Elway would make this kind of move without an alternative in mind.

[CoachChaz]

Back in their respective primes they would get those kind of numbers. For anyone to say that would could count on getting 8 to 10 sacks from either one of them isn't paying attention. Both Freeney and Umenyiora numbers have been moving downward over the last two to three years.

I'm not necessarily making an argument for either player, but you really do have to look at more than just the numbers.

Osi only had 6 sacks last year. But it was mostly because of ther rotational situation the NYG ran the defense. I have a feeling no one would be disappointed if we were swapping Doom for JPP...and even he only had 6.5 sacks last year. It was more the system than anything. The 2 years before last, Osi has a combined 21.5 sacks...the same amount Doom had the past 2 years. I wouldnt call that a decline.

Freeney's numbers are a bit different. Only 8 sacks in 2011, but a lot of that can be attributred to the team. They were horrible and teams ran against them at a ridiculous rate due to always having a lead on them. Last year, he was put into more of a situational pass rusher situation due to the team tinkering with a hybrid 3-4 defense...which Freeney obviously doesnt fit into.

Now, I wont say either player is a perfect fit for the team or a long term replacement for Elvis. But if we're going to base our emotions on a quick glance at stats, then I recommend actually looking at the numbers behind the numbers.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not necessarily making an argument for either player, but you really do have to look at more than just the numbers.

Osi only had 6 sacks last year. But it was mostly because of ther rotational situation the NYG ran the defense. I have a feeling no one would be disappointed if we were swapping Doom for JPP...and even he only had 6.5 sacks last year. It was more the system than anything. The 2 years before last, Osi has a combined 21.5 sacks...the same amount Doom had the past 2 years. I wouldnt call that a decline.

Freeney's numbers are a bit different. Only 8 sacks in 2011, but a lot of that can be attributred to the team. They were horrible and teams ran against them at a ridiculous rate due to always having a lead on them. Last year, he was put into more of a situational pass rusher situation due to the team tinkering with a hybrid 3-4 defense...which Freeney obviously doesnt fit into.

Now, I wont say either player is a perfect fit for the team or a long term replacement for Elvis. But if we're going to base our emotions on a quick glance at stats, then I recommend actually looking at the numbers behind the numbers.

Fair enough. JPP did have down year but he is only in his mid twenties the chances of him bouncing back are better than Freeney or Umenyoria. I understand that Freeney was in new defense but his bookend Mathis had numbers were practically same even though he was in a new system.

My biggest concern is that neither of them is a long term solution and not that either one of them would able steady enough be good to give balance for Miller. I have looked Freeney's numbers over the course of his career I would say Dumervil has been a more productive player and without having Miller on the other side most of that time.

I would feel a little more comfortable with Umenyiora but not by much.

And no my opinion base on emotion and quick glance.

[SR]

I better understand my friends that have abandoned being football fans and migrated to the UFC at times like this.

This type if shit is just ridiculous.

So is the UFC

[CoachChaz]

Fair enough. JPP did have down year but he is only in his mid twenties the chances of him bouncing back are better than Freeney or Umenyoria. I understand that Freeney was in new defense but his bookend Mathis had numbers were practically same even though he was in a new system.

My biggest concern is that neither of them is a long term solution and not that either one of them would able steady enough be good to give balance for Miller. I have looked Freeney's numbers over the course of his career I would say Dumervil has been a more productive player and without having Miller on the other side most of that time.

I would feel a little more comfortable with Umenyiora but not by much.

And no my opinion base on emotion and quick glance.

As I said, I'm not maiking a defensive case for any of this, but if you look at the numbers behind the numbers, it should be easier to understand part of the reason for the decline. Remember...Doom is 29. Probably not very likely that his numbers will start getting much better, so keep age in mind when we discuss him as well.

Also saw a tidbit by Pro Football Focus that listed Doom as the 3rd lowest players on the Broncos in terms of effectiveness. PFF has a system similar to baseball sabermetrics, but I refuse to pay $30 a year to view details. Either way, they are fairly respected.

[BroncoWave]

As I said, I'm not maiking a defensive case for any of this, but if you look at the numbers behind the numbers, it should be easier to understand part of the reason for the decline. Remember...Doom is 29. Probably not very likely that his numbers will start getting much better, so keep age in mind when we discuss him as well.

Also saw a tidbit by Pro Football Focus that listed Doom as the 3rd lowest players on the Broncos in terms of effectiveness. PFF has a system similar to baseball sabermetrics, but I refuse to pay $30 a year to view details. Either way, they are fairly respected.

When people are really attached to a player like Doom they don't like it when you throw objective analysis like PFF does in their face. This might be the biggest overreaction I've ever seen from Broncos fans on getting rid of a player.

Maybe I'm just a blind homer, but I refuse to believe that Elway would simply get rid of him if he didn't think he would not be missed that much or he could be easily replaced.

[CoachChaz]

When people are really attached to a player like Doom they don't like it when you throw objective analysis like PFF does in their face. This might be the biggest overreaction I've ever seen from Broncos fans on getting rid of a player.

Maybe I'm just a blind homer, but I refuse to believe that Elway would simply get rid of him if he didn't think he would not be missed that much or he could be easily replaced.

I agree. All we can do is hope that Elway doesnt piss on out trust

[underrated29]

The Moore I think about it it seems like we do want to cut doom to make room for a revis trade. I mean even if we go after and sign all the rumored guys- knighton, mendenhall, freeney, levitre.....we should still be well under the cap before we cut dooms contract. So why would we want another 12 mil of cap space unless we plan on picking up a huge contract?

[Lancane]

The Moore I think about it it seems like we do want to cut doom to make room for a revis trade. I mean even if we go after and sign all the rumored guys- knighton, mendenhall, freeney, levitre.....we should still be well under the cap before we cut dooms contract. So why would we want another 12 mil of cap space unless we plan on picking up a huge contract?

I hope like hell that you're wrong.

[Lancane]

I agree. All we can do is hope that Elway doesnt piss on out trust

Me too Coach, because right now it seems Manning has a little too much influence with the front office for my taste - building to win now instead of remaining competitive hardly ever works.

[CoachChaz]

The Moore I think about it it seems like we do want to cut doom to make room for a revis trade. I mean even if we go after and sign all the rumored guys- knighton, mendenhall, freeney, levitre.....we should still be well under the cap before we cut dooms contract. So why would we want another 12 mil of cap space unless we plan on picking up a huge contract?

That's what has been in my head. Just cutting Williams, Hanie and eventually Mays will give us an additional 10 mil or so. So what is the benefit in adding another 8 to that unless we really need/want to be big players in free agency? Yes, Doom is currently overpaid, but we could always dump him next year. So why now and why the need for so much space? I doubt it's to offer Williams or Cruz big money, so the only other thought is Revis. Maybe the early rumors are true. Personally, I'd prefer we tradr Doom straight up if that's the path they want to take, but I guess we'll see

[CoachChaz]

Me too Coach, because right now it seems Manning has a little too much influence with the front office for my taste - building to win now instead of remaining competitive hardly ever works.

Except, I think we can do both. We still have a lot of youth that can be the core of this team for a long time and our cap is set up to be able to pay all of them when the time comes. Seems like Elway is using FA for the win now portion and the draft for the win later portion. I can get behind that

[Lancane]

That's what has been in my head. Just cutting Williams, Hanie and eventually Mays will give us an additional 10 mil or so. So what is the benefit in adding another 8 to that unless we really need/want to be big players in free agency? Yes, Doom is currently overpaid, but we could always dump him next year. So why now and why the need for so much space? I doubt it's to offer Williams or Cruz big money, so the only other thought is Revis. Maybe the early rumors are true. Personally, I'd prefer we tradr Doom straight up if that's the path they want to take, but I guess we'll see

I'd rather they traded our first round pick for Cruz then 'Bevis'!

[CoachChaz]

I'd rather they traded our first round pick for Cruz then 'Bevis'!

Oh, definitely. With Cruz in the slot, we'd never have to run the ball. But I dont see it happening. That's why I say I'd prefer to see Doom and a conditional traded for Revis instead of a 1st. If indeed it does happen

[Denver Native (Carol)]

this is what Dumervil said in 2010, after agreeing to his contract extension:


Dumervil and the Broncos agreed to a contract extension Thursday, the team announced. Terms weren't disclosed, but according to multiple sources, the six-year deal was worth $61.5 million and includes between $41 million and $43 million in guarantees.

"Money is not everything, and that's the way I was brought up," Dumervil told The Denver Post on Thursday night. "It's nice when you get it, don't get me wrong, but I was always taught that you get what you put into it. And as long as you conduct yourself as such, good things will happen for you."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5403260

Guess it's easy to say that money is not everything, when you get what you want.

[TXBRONC]

As I said, I'm not maiking a defensive case for any of this, but if you look at the numbers behind the numbers, it should be easier to understand part of the reason for the decline. Remember...Doom is 29. Probably not very likely that his numbers will start getting much better, so keep age in mind when we discuss him as well.

Also saw a tidbit by Pro Football Focus that listed Doom as the 3rd lowest players on the Broncos in terms of effectiveness. PFF has a system similar to baseball sabermetrics, but I refuse to pay $30 a year to view details. Either way, they are fairly respected.

I can't image that Freeney was very effective for the Colts.

[CoachChaz]

I can't image that Freeney was very effective for the Colts.

Probably not, but like I said...I'm not paying $30 to find out.

[rationalfan]

When people are really attached to a player like Doom they don't like it when you throw objective analysis like PFF does in their face. This might be the biggest overreaction I've ever seen from Broncos fans on getting rid of a player.

ever? hillis?

[rationalfan]

The Moore I think about it it seems like we do want to cut doom to make room for a revis trade. I mean even if we go after and sign all the rumored guys- knighton, mendenhall, freeney, levitre.....we should still be well under the cap before we cut dooms contract. So why would we want another 12 mil of cap space unless we plan on picking up a huge contract?

i've been thinking the same thing.

[Buff]

ever? hillis?

Hillis?

Ever heard of Jhey Cutler?

[TXBRONC]

Probably not, but like I said...I'm not paying $30 to find out.\

Like I said earlier if Dumervil is let go I personally would be a little more comfortable with Umenyiora.

[CoachChaz]

\

Like I said earlier if Dumervil is let go I personally would be a little more comfortable with Umenyiora.

I completely agree.

[NightTerror218]

\

Like I said earlier if Dumervil is let go I personally would be a little more comfortable with Umenyiora.

i think he is weaker against the run then Doom.

[CoachChaz]

i think he is weaker against the run then Doom.

Well...they both suck. It's kind of like saying a snail is slower than a turtle

[NightTerror218]

Well...they both suck. It's kind of like saying a snail is slower than a turtle

IMO Doom improved this last season.

[CoachChaz]

IMO Doom improved this last season.

I dont know that I saw it that way, but ok. His play seemed pretty much on par with what he's done in the past. His numbers seem to back that up as well.

[Lancane]

Funny thing, the Colts fans seem to think far less of Freeney - not a good sign IMHO.

[Northman]

Hillis?

Ever heard of Jhey Cutler?

Cutler? Who's he? Now that Tebow guy......

[Northman]

Funny thing, the Colts fans seem to think far less of Freeney - not a good sign IMHO.

Not shocked, the dude is done.

[BroncoWave]

ever? hillis?

Good point. I had almost blocked that guy from my memory. Definitely a bigger overreaction with him. At least Doom has made pro bowls. Hills just plain sucked.


Hillis?

Ever heard of Jhey Cutler?

I can at least understand the outrage in that one. I didn't share it, but I don't blame people for being mad about dumping a young QB with potential and replacing him with Kyle Orton.

[CoachChaz]

Funny thing, the Colts fans seem to think far less of Freeney - not a good sign IMHO.

And Giants fans think less of Osi...and Steelers fans suddenly dont care about Harrison...and so on and so on.

Colts fans have also been given a glimpse of the future and they are excited about it. I'm not defending Freeney, but I'll take what some fans think with a grain of salt. Just like we all do with each other here

[Lancane]

And Giants fans think less of Osi...and Steelers fans suddenly dont care about Harrison...and so on and so on.

Colts fans have also been given a glimpse of the future and they are excited about it. I'm not defending Freeney, but I'll take what some fans think with a grain of salt. Just like we all do with each other here

If Freeney wasn't geriatric I would take it with a grain of salt - but considering his past issues and age? I think the fans are better judges in this matter.

[Northman]

And Giants fans think less of Osi...and Steelers fans suddenly dont care about Harrison...and so on and so on.

Colts fans have also been given a glimpse of the future and they are excited about it. I'm not defending Freeney, but I'll take what some fans think with a grain of salt. Just like we all do with each other here

Indeed. You guys are way off on your assessment of Doom but since he is on the cutting board got to take what you guys say with a grain of salt.

[CoachChaz]

If Freeney wasn't geriatric I would take it with a grain of salt - but considering his past issues and age? I think the fans are better judges in this matter.

Fans are better judges than NFL personnel. That's a new development

[Mike]

Fans are better judges than NFL personnel. That's a new development

In some cases they appear to be. Not saying this is one of those cases. Just sayin.

[Lancane]

Fans are better judges than NFL personnel. That's a new development

Yeah because McDouche, Todd St-Haley and so many others have proven us wrong recently! :lol:

[BroncoWave]

Yeah because McDouche, Todd St-Haley and so many others have proven us wrong recently! :lol:

I think 90+% of fans would be just as bad as if not worse than those two at running a team if given the chance. And 90% is probably low.

[Poet]

I think 90+% of fans would be just as bad as if not worse than those two at running a team if given the chance. And 90% is probably low.

I could not do much worse than Cleveland. I know I could have done better than the Bengals in the 90's.

[Northman]

I know i could of done better than McDaniels. No doubt in my mind.

[BroncoWave]

It's easy to say when you're not in that chair having to make the decisions.

[CoachChaz]

Delusions of grandeur

[Lancane]

It's easy to say when you're not in that chair having to make the decisions.

True...but it's just as easy not to use common sense and to do the job in the wrong manner simply to placate a player or your boss.