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Tned
08-24-2009, 07:23 PM
Trading in shorts for pads: The McDaniels era has begun
by Tned

The Denver Broncos and their fans have had one of the best 25 year runs in NFL history. During the last quarter century, the Broncos have had five Super Bowl appearances, winning two of them. They have had only four losing seasons and no back-to-back losing seasons, while making the playoffs 13 times. A 25 year stretch that most owners and fans would love to have.

Is it a coincidence that Pat Bowlen bought the team 25 years ago? It may very well be his guidance of the Broncos that have lead to such success, or maybe it was the fortune of having the Great John Elway playing under center. Maybe it was the two head coaches that have lead the Broncos for 23 of the last 25 years. In all likelihood, all of these factors played a role in the great success the Broncos have enjoyed under Bowlen's ownership.

With the exception of a brief two year stint by Wade Phillips, the Broncos have had two long-tenured coaches. Dan Reeves coached the Broncos for 12 years (3 years before Bowlen bought the Broncos), and Mike Shanahan coached the Broncos for the last 14 years. Reeves lead the Broncos to 3 Super Bowl appearances, but failed to win any. Shanahan lead the Broncos to two Super Bowl appearances, winning both of them. One common thread that both coaches shared, was John Elway taking the snaps.

The years since Elway retired have not been quite as impressive -- at least not when measured against the high bar that the Broncos' themselves have set. Still, the team has had only two losing seasons over the last decade, and has made four playoff appearances, including reaching the AFC Championship game in 2005.

After missing the playoffs for three straight years, the longest stretch since Bowlen bought the team, he did something he had done only twice before -- he fired his head coach. After 14 years, the Mike Shanahan era came to an end.

Even with the Broncos playing .500 ball over the last three seasons, under Mike Shanahan the Broncos had nine winning seasons (against only two losing seasons), reached the playoffs seven times, played in three AFC Championship games (winning two) and won both Super Bowls the Broncos played in.

However, Pat Bowlen believed the organization needed to move in another direction. Even if the path he chose looks very familiar. Following the 1994 season, after the Broncos had gone 24-24 the previous three years, Mr. Bowlen turned to a young offensive genius. While Mike Shanahan started his NFL coaching career with the Broncos, he became nationally recognized as the offensive coordinator in San Francisco working with Joe Montana and Steve Young for three years, and helping San Francisco win the Super Bowl following the 1994 season. After two sub-par years with Wade Phillips as head coach, Pat Bowlen brought the now highly touted offensive coordinator Mike Shanahan back to the Broncos and named him the head coach.

Fast forward 14 years, and Pat has once again endured a three season stretch where the Broncos have gone 24-24, and is once again turning to a highly touted offensive coordinator. In this case, Josh McDaniels who has lead the New England Patriots' offense since 2005 (officially as offensive coordinator since 2006). While New England did not win the Super Bowl with McDaniels as their offensive coordinator, he lead Tom Brady and the Patriots offense in 2007 when the Patriots set the NFL record for touchdowns and points scored, while going undefeated in the regular seasons and winning 18 straight games, before ending their perfect season with a loss in the Super Bowl.

As great as the 2007 season was, many feel his greatest accomplishment was when Tom Brady went down with a season ending knee injury in week one of the 2008 season. Matt Cassel, a universally unknown quarterback, who spent both his college and NFL career as an obscure backup to Carson Palmer (USC), Matt Leinart (USC) and Tom Brady, was thrust into a starting role for the first time since high school. While the Patriots missed the playoffs in 2008, the combination of the record breaking performance in 2007 and helping Matt Cassel lead the Patriots to an 11 win season in 2008, thrust McDaniels into the spotlight as a leading candidate for the open head coaching positions following the 2008 season.

In an attempt to recapture past magic, Pat Bowlen once again turned to a young, talented offensive coordinator and hired Josh McDaniels -- ignoring conventional wisdom that said he should hire a defensive minded coach to fix the Broncos woeful defense.

While their youth and success as offensive coordinators were very similar, along with the fact they both joined the Broncos after a three year stretch of .500 ball, the similarities between Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels end there.

Those similarities clearly stop at their age and offensive coordinator pedigrees. Training camps under Shanahan were sometimes referred to as Club Shanahan, due to the fact that players were allowed to go home each night of camp, and the team rarely practiced in full pads, instead opting for shorts. Life got even easier during the regular season, when the team only practiced in pads after blowouts or a stretch of bad games . Instead, Shanahan believed that keeping players in shorts during the week of practice, would keep them fresh for the game. While there are arguments for and against practicing in shorts, one hallmark of the Shanahn era was that the Broncos often started the season fast, jumping out to five or six wins in the first seven games, only to fade down the stretch playing closer to .500 ball in the second half of the season.

Camp McDaniels couldn't be farther from Club Shanahan. McDaniels had players in pads for 22 of the 26 training camp practices, referring to them as "very physical". The physical nature wasn't just from wearing pads. The position coaches have put a huge emphasis on fundamentals, such as running a variety of full speed, full contact drills to teach proper tackling techniques, proper ball stripping techniques and many other football fundamentals.

It's no Club Med. When 14 year veteran center Casey Wiegmann, who is coming off a pro-bowl season, and backup quarterback Chris Simms fumbled a snap, they were rewarded by having to run a lap around the practice field. When the starting defense only had 10 men in the huddle during an 11 on 11 drill, the entire starting defensive unit ran a lap around the practice field. In fact, every player on the team had to pass a conditioning test, which consisted of three closely-spaced 100 yard sprints that had to be completed in a predetermined time, before they were allowed to participate in training camp. Most practices ended with the players running a 100 yard sprint, which sometimes a unit would be excused from as a reward if they did something special in practice.

Coach McDaniels has taken nothing for granted. Every practice was carefully scripted before training camp even began. There was a strong emphasis not only on extremely physical play, but also on teaching fundamentals that the rookies may have never been taught, and that veterans likely haven't practiced in years.

McDaniels seems to take an approach where you assume nothing, and prepare for everything. In camp, he was seen in the end zone playing the role of a defensive back, giving pointers to both receivers and corner backs. At other times, giving throwing tips to the quarterbacks. Since it isn't possible to properly simulate crowd noise, during designated practices he had music blaring throughout Dove Valley, so that the team would have to practice with limited ability to communicate verbally.

However, Coach McDaniels isn't all work and no play. Each day, he allowed a player to pick the music that the team would work out to. He would have little games like allowing a defensive linemen to attempt to field a punt to excuse the defensive unit from running the end-of-practice sprint. He also had one end of the field flooded one practice and had the rookies practicing fumble recoveries in the mud with water pelting them from hoses -- not so much for skill improvement, but instead some good old fashioned rookie hazing.

Is Camp McDaniels more effective than Club Shanahan? Which is more effective practice attire, shorts or pads? With three weeks left to the start of the season, these are questions that can't be answered. If the Broncos have a rash of injuries, many will likely point to the very physical camp as a reason for the injuries. On the other hand, if the missed tackles and other lack of fundamentals that have plagued the Broncos in recent years, are replaced with fundamentally sound, physical play, it will be hard not to credit the hard-nosed practice routine that McDaniels put the team through.

While it will be many years until we know if the McDaniels' era is as successful as the Shanahan era, one thing is for sure. The moment McDaniels had the players turn in their country-club shorts for a pair of football pads, he made one thing clear. He expects his players to practice the way they play, physically tough and fundamentally sound. Anything short of that has no place on Josh McDaniels' playing field.

NightTrainLayne
08-24-2009, 08:35 PM
Great article T. Well-done.

Superchop 7
08-24-2009, 09:28 PM
One things for certain, we will be lousy this year.

Shazam!
08-24-2009, 09:36 PM
One things for certain, we will be lousy this year.

Why is it that someone must turn every decent thread into doom and gloom? Enough already.

GEM
08-24-2009, 10:08 PM
One things for certain, we will be lousy this year.

So why exactly do you waste your time on such a terrible team? Spending time on one of their fan message boards. I mean, they just aren't up to your standards, right? Come on back when they are back up to the high standards you have set for them.

silkamilkamonico
08-24-2009, 11:07 PM
One things for certain, we will be lousy this year.

translation = "I'm a modern day common man. I can appreciate the best of the lousiest, and the lousiest of the best."

CrazyHorse
08-24-2009, 11:14 PM
Practicing in pads = more injuries.

Shazam!
08-25-2009, 12:33 AM
Practicing in pads = more injuries.

Practicing in shorts w/limited contacts = more Gameday injuries.

How many simple pulled groins has Denver had? Oh yeah.

sneakers
08-25-2009, 12:44 AM
Practicing in shorts w/limited contacts = more Gameday injuries.

How many simple pulled groins has Denver had? Oh yeah.

Practicing in shorts = a better chance of someone sneaking behind you and pulling down your shorts.

silkamilkamonico
08-25-2009, 01:15 AM
Practicing in shorts = sunday backyard football at the family reunion picnic

Lonestar
08-25-2009, 01:47 AM
practicing in shorts could be the reason we tackled like little old women..

SR
08-25-2009, 04:30 AM
Great article T.

And would all of you degenerates quit with the doom and gloom BS. Enough already. Seriously. We haven't played a meaninful game yet this year. The preseason is vanilla. Quit treating the preseason as if it counts for something. So what if we end the season 5-11 or 8-8? There is always next season.

Dirk
08-25-2009, 05:15 AM
Great article!

I am still optimistic for the upcoming season and I am excited. Even though some don't think that KO can do it. I think he can. I also think this is a learning year and if they are to grow as a team and get better, this will be the year to do it.

Cheers to the new look Broncos! May your practices be filled with pads and laps and may your game days be filled with Wins! :beer:

gobroncsnv
08-25-2009, 06:50 AM
Just a question... Did Shanny have the team practice in shorts the 2 years they won the SB?

I thought he did. I also think he got that from a guy named Walsh.

No doubt, I agree that our tackling has been FLAT AWFUL the past couple of years. Way too much trying to non-arm tackle, or plain old being out of position or just flat out whiffing... But is that a result of bad practice method, or bad players? No one can say with credibility that our D roster contained much in the way of superstar material. We have all been disappointed with our off season moves for getting a front wall in place (me for about 10 yrs)...
That said, I'm still willing to give McD a chance, because the team did seem to be getting a certain staleness about it. Bowlen needed to change the culture to cure the malaise (and I think Shanny is going to be GREAT at his next stop). Did he get the right guy? We'll see, but at the very least, he's not gonna get what he got because he kept trying the same old thing over and over.

claymore
08-25-2009, 07:34 AM
Great article T.

And would all of you degenerates quit with the doom and gloom BS. Enough already. Seriously. We haven't played a meaninful game yet this year. The preseason is vanilla. Quit treating the preseason as if it counts for something. So what if we end the season 5-11 or 8-8? There is always next season.

If you dont care if we win and lose why do you root for the team?

CoachChaz
08-25-2009, 07:39 AM
Does anyone recall what happened the year after Elway left? The AMAZING Shanny had to replace the QB and the team finished 6-10.

McD has to rebuild most of the team. Let's not get our expectations too high. We all want them to go 16-0, but those with cooler heads understand that growing pains do exist.

claymore
08-25-2009, 07:40 AM
Does anyone recall what happened the year after Elway left? The AMAZING Shanny had to replace the QB and the team finished 6-10.

McD has to rebuild most of the team. Let's not get our expectations too high. We all want them to go 16-0, but those with cooler heads understand that growing pains do exist.

Shannahan didnt trade Elway and Shannon Sharpe when he was hired either.

MOtorboat
08-25-2009, 07:45 AM
Shannahan didnt trade Elway and Shannon Sharpe when he was hired either.

Marshall and Cutler couldn't hold Elway's and Sharpe's jocks.

CoachChaz
08-25-2009, 07:51 AM
Shannahan didnt trade Elway and Shannon Sharpe when he was hired either.

The difference there is Elway welcomed Shanny. Cutler got pissy about the change in coaches and forced his way out. I mean, seriously...regardless of what role McD had in any of it, have we really not seen and heard enough to see that Cutler could have easily been more professional about this?

Regardless of rumors and the eventual trade of his best buddy, Sheffler never acted like Jay did...and eventually he sees that he will have a big role in this offense and embraces it.

I'll keep saying it until I'm shown something different, but there are alot of guys on this team and oddly enough...the two head cases before McD came along just happen to be the same two head cases after and suddenly...even though NONE of the other players on the team have a problem...it's all McD's fault.

claymore
08-25-2009, 08:00 AM
Marshall and Cutler couldn't hold Elway's and Sharpe's jocks.

Both Marshall and Cutler were better than Sharpe and Elway their first three years with the Broncos comparatively. Its taboo to say that but its true.

Will they have better carreers overall? I have no idea.

claymore
08-25-2009, 08:04 AM
The difference there is Elway welcomed Shanny. Cutler got pissy about the change in coaches and forced his way out. I mean, seriously...regardless of what role McD had in any of it, have we really not seen and heard enough to see that Cutler could have easily been more professional about this?

Regardless of rumors and the eventual trade of his best buddy, Sheffler never acted like Jay did...and eventually he sees that he will have a big role in this offense and embraces it.

I'll keep saying it until I'm shown something different, but there are alot of guys on this team and oddly enough...the two head cases before McD came along just happen to be the same two head cases after and suddenly...even though NONE of the other players on the team have a problem...it's all McD's fault.
For all we know Cutler could have handled it allot better than we give him credit for. I dont know what JMCD said to him during the meeting they had in Denver.

And Elway's scenario was the exact opposite. He was a doosh to reeves, got him fired and wanted Shanny.

Elway wasnt exactly the most mature guy in the history of QB's either.

CoachChaz
08-25-2009, 08:10 AM
For all we know Cutler could have handled it allot better than we give him credit for. I dont know what JMCD said to him during the meeting they had in Denver.

And Elway's scenario was the exact opposite. He was a doosh to reeves, got him fired and wanted Shanny.

Elway wasnt exactly the most mature guy in the history of QB's either.

That was kind of my point. Elway was established and was able to get the coach he wanted. niether Cutler nor McD were established "per se", but it can be ASSUMED that one wanted a different player or than the other wasnted a different coach. Well, they both got their wish if that's the case.

LRtagger
08-25-2009, 08:13 AM
One things for certain, we will be lousy this year.

Yea it's too bad we weren't lousy last year. We could have drafted Curry.

Shazam!
08-25-2009, 09:05 AM
Just a question... Did Shanny have the team practice in shorts the 2 years they won the SB?

I thought he did. I also think he got that from a guy named Walsh.

The Broncos Club Med-style practice atmosphere worked extremely well when the team was full of veterans. This was truest in the 90's, when coming to play in Denver didn't mean grueling camps. As the team got younger and younger and the talent pool more diluted, this worked less and less and to a true disadvantage. This is not only evidenced by the catastrophic injuries the last two seasons, but by playing sloppy, uninspired, and lacking the most basic fundamentals like sound tackling.

Also in reference to Walsh, players are now spoiled more than ever than in that era.

I'm glad Denver got back to basics and camps the way they should be. They shouldn't be rewarded for doing nothing.

Shazam!
08-25-2009, 09:10 AM
The difference there is Elway welcomed Shanny.

Elway practically demanded Shanahan in fact.

NightTrainLayne
08-25-2009, 09:11 AM
Shannahan didnt trade Elway and Shannon Sharpe when he was hired either.

He tried to trade Sharpe. Just because nobody wanted to make a deal doesn't mean he didn't have the intent.

claymore
08-25-2009, 09:19 AM
He tried to trade Sharpe. Just because nobody wanted to make a deal doesn't mean he didn't have the intent.

Not durring his first offseason days after being hired. And in the end its why our future hall of famer went to Baltimore. Sharpe said he never trusted shannahan till he came back.

NightTrainLayne
08-25-2009, 09:24 AM
Not durring his first offseason days after being hired. And in the end its why our future hall of famer went to Baltimore. Sharpe said he never trusted shannahan till he came back.

Never trusted Shanahan. . ..but still put of HOF #'s and winning two SB's before going to Baltimore.

Seems to me that Marshall could learn something from that.

silkamilkamonico
08-25-2009, 11:21 AM
That was kind of my point. Elway was established and was able to get the coach he wanted. niether Cutler nor McD were established "per se", but it can be ASSUMED that one wanted a different player or than the other wasnted a different coach. Well, they both got their wish if that's the case.

I personally believe it was never about "trading Jay Cutler". McDaniels didn't come in and say "we need top trade Jay Cutler". He simply listenend to a phone call about possibly acquiring Matt Cassell, his former QB, who he invested 3 years in.

After that it just escalated, and both sides could have handled it much much better. The bottom line is, like you said, Jay Cutler got his glass emotional gina hurt.

Shazam!
08-25-2009, 12:59 PM
He tried to trade Sharpe...

Note that the outspoken Shannon didn't whine about it and cry like a girl to anyone who would listen either.

claymore
08-25-2009, 01:11 PM
Note that the outspoken Shannon didn't whine about it and cry like a girl to anyone who would listen either.

Sharpe didnt have a blackberry.

Tned
08-25-2009, 02:01 PM
Practicing in shorts w/limited contacts = more Gameday injuries.

How many simple pulled groins has Denver had? Oh yeah.

I don't think there is anyway you can tie those directly. I know that Tuten recently came out and said that he felt that not having physical practices was one of the factors in the injuries, but who knows.

His logic was that like with exercise, if you jog once a week, you will be sore afterwards, but if you jog every day, your body is used to it and you won't be sore.

Maybe that's true, or maybe we had bad luck. Under Shanny's 14 years where the limited contact practices were common, we didn't have non-stop groin injuries. We probably had more last year than any other three or four year period. Sometimes people get hit with the injury bug, and there is no clear reason why.

NightTrainLayne
08-25-2009, 02:37 PM
I don't think there is anyway you can tie those directly. I know that Tuten recently came out and said that he felt that not having physical practices was one of the factors in the injuries, but who knows.

His logic was that like with exercise, if you jog once a week, you will be sore afterwards, but if you jog every day, your body is used to it and you won't be sore.

Maybe that's true, or maybe we had bad luck. Under Shanny's 14 years where the limited contact practices were common, we didn't have non-stop groin injuries. We probably had more last year than any other three or four year period. Sometimes people get hit with the injury bug, and there is no clear reason why.

Last season was the worst, but we have had well above average injuries for several years now.

Your point still qualifies that there's no way to tie it together exactly, but our loss of player-games due to injury over the past 3-4 seasons has been horrendous.

Tned
08-25-2009, 02:43 PM
Last season was the worst, but we have had well above average injuries for several years now.

Your point still qualifies that there's no way to tie it together exactly, but our loss of player-games due to injury over the past 3-4 seasons has been horrendous.

Yet, by all accounts, it's the same practice methods we have used for over a decade.

claymore
08-25-2009, 02:43 PM
Last season was the worst, but we have had well above average injuries for several years now.

Your point still qualifies that there's no way to tie it together exactly, but our loss of player-games due to injury over the past 3-4 seasons has been horrendous.

Shannahan drafting projects like Torrain and watts etc... Didnt help our cause much. It seemed like we always took a few guys that were specimens before they got hurt in college.

NightTrainLayne
08-25-2009, 02:47 PM
Yet, by all accounts, it's the same practice methods we have used for over a decade.

Do you think there could be a difference between a relatively young roster filled with kids who never learned how to really prepare for an NFL workout/game/season than a roster 10 years ago filled with guys like Shannon Sharpe and Rod Smith who took their conditioning as serious as a full-time job?

Who knows. There's no way to prove it either way, but I don't think that tough practices hurt anything.

Lonestar
08-25-2009, 02:51 PM
Do you think there could be a difference between a relatively young roster filled with kids who never learned how to really prepare for an NFL workout/game/season than a roster 10 years ago filled with guys like Shannon Sharpe and Rod Smith who took their conditioning as serious as a full-time job?

Who knows. There's no way to prove it either way, but I don't think that tough practices hurt anything.



I think the report from tuten about mike not allowing them to warm up and stretch AGAINST his advise was the real cause for the groin issues last year..

or at least most of them..

as for pads no pads time will tell..

Tned
08-25-2009, 02:51 PM
Do you think there could be a difference between a relatively young roster filled with kids who never learned how to really prepare for an NFL workout/game/season than a roster 10 years ago filled with guys like Shannon Sharpe and Rod Smith who took their conditioning as serious as a full-time job?

Who knows. There's no way to prove it either way, but I don't think that tough practices hurt anything.

Like you said, there is no way to know. All I can say is that I hope we go the whole year without a groin or hamstring pull, so we can look back and say, "looks like the physical camp and practices were a good thing."

I'm not sure what the cause of the recent injury woes were, I just hope they are behind us.

Gimpygod
08-25-2009, 04:46 PM
practicing in shorts could be the reason we tackled like little old women..

After watching our defense over the past few years I believe you owe little old women everywhere an apology! Interesting trivia note: during intramural retirement home scrimmages they are known to say, "you tackle like a bronco," to taunt And belittle the other players.

Benetto
08-25-2009, 04:47 PM
After watching our defense over the past few years I believe you owe little old women everywhere an apology! Interesting trivia note: during intramural retirement home scrimmages they are known to say, "you tackle like a bronco," to taunt And belittle the other players.

Where have you been GG?

arapaho2
08-25-2009, 05:13 PM
if anybody thinks that the old broncos of late under shannahan were not physically manhandled, pushed around,pressured, beaten down, biatch slapped, by the more physical teams is in denial....if anyone thinks that the start fast and fade seasons were not due to the weak camps and practises shanny ran...your in denial... shannahas camps were soft and the team was soft pudgy little school boy getting picked on by the hard tuff bullies

you dont finese a physical team....you dont out tuff a physical team by being soft.... you dont learn to tackle by ...never tackleing until game time

you dont get stronger, more physical..by doing less




these camps are gonna produce a tuffer, more physical team that will be a bully instead of a pudgy little whimp

TXBRONC
08-25-2009, 05:27 PM
I don't think there is anyway you can tie those directly. I know that Tuten recently came out and said that he felt that not having physical practices was one of the factors in the injuries, but who knows.

His logic was that like with exercise, if you jog once a week, you will be sore afterwards, but if you jog every day, your body is used to it and you won't be sore.

Maybe that's true, or maybe we had bad luck. Under Shanny's 14 years where the limited contact practices were common, we didn't have non-stop groin injuries. We probably had more last year than any other three or four year period. Sometimes people get hit with the injury bug, and there is no clear reason why.

Agreed there is no way to prove that putting on pads will keep the players healthier.

SR
08-25-2009, 05:36 PM
If you dont care if we win and lose why do you root for the team?

It's not about that. I want us to win, but there's a difference in the way a normal person goes about it versus how some of the people here go on about it. In the end, there are things in my life that are FAR more important to me than football. I root for the Broncos because of my family ties with the team in the AFL and because I was born in Aurora, making them my home town team. But like I said, life is bigger than football.

SR
08-25-2009, 05:41 PM
Like you said, there is no way to know. All I can say is that I hope we go the whole year without a groin or hamstring pull, so we can look back and say, "looks like the physical camp and practices were a good thing."

I'm not sure what the cause of the recent injury woes were, I just hope they are behind us.

I think we're going to find out in the couple of years ahead of us that a lot of McDaniels' ways are good.

nbenallo33
08-25-2009, 05:46 PM
its funny coach McD looked just like mini Bellicheck out there on Saturday with his hoodie..
he really needs to get rid of that!

Tned
08-25-2009, 05:58 PM
I think we're going to find out in the couple of years ahead of us that a lot of McDaniels' ways are good.

That's what I'm counting on.

SR
08-25-2009, 11:22 PM
That's what I'm counting on.

I think McDaniels has "it". This dude is a FOOTBALL TEAM coach. Cutler made Shanny his bitch, methinks, and I like that McDaniels is hard nosed and doesn't cater to the "rockstars" on the team. I like that his training camp was 99% in pads and full contact. I like that he stresses physical, hard nose play.

We might not have a great season this year, but I think we're going to surprise a lot of people, including our own fans and nay sayers. I don't know this, but it's a hunch, and regardless of all of the "death is here" people that post here, I will NEVER shoot down my team ESPECIALLY before a meaningful down is played.

Orange7
08-26-2009, 06:34 AM
I think McDaniels has "it". This dude is a FOOTBALL TEAM coach. Cutler made Shanny his bitch, methinks, and I like that McDaniels is hard nosed and doesn't cater to the "rockstars" on the team. I like that his training camp was 99% in pads and full contact. I like that he stresses physical, hard nose play.

We might not have a great season this year, but I think we're going to surprise a lot of people, including our own fans and nay sayers. I don't know this, but it's a hunch, and regardless of all of the "death is here" people that post here, I will NEVER shoot down my team ESPECIALLY before a meaningful down is played.

Our fans are very passionate, and the fans have a far bigger influence on things than some might expect. I agree, that eventually, McDaniels could really be a good thing for this team but if this season is one of the worst in our recent history, then the hate for McDaniels will be so high the fans could well run him out of town (see Plummer, as an example of how this can happen).

CoachChaz
08-26-2009, 07:00 AM
Our fans are very passionate, and the fans have a far bigger influence on things than some might expect. I agree, that eventually, McDaniels could really be a good thing for this team but if this season is one of the worst in our recent history, then the hate for McDaniels will be so high the fans could well run him out of town (see Plummer, as an example of how this can happen).

If that happens, I will be very disappointed in this organization. Again, it was only 10 years ago that Shanny had a 6-10 season and he only lost a QB. Yes, it was an HOF QB, but McD is almost starting from scratch. If we finish 6-10, I'll call it expected. Anything more is a positive.

Orange7
08-26-2009, 11:55 AM
If that happens, I will be very disappointed in this organization. Again, it was only 10 years ago that Shanny had a 6-10 season and he only lost a QB. Yes, it was an HOF QB, but McD is almost starting from scratch. If we finish 6-10, I'll call it expected. Anything more is a positive.

People will blame McDaniels for the mess with Cutler...among other things.

Ravage!!!
08-26-2009, 12:04 PM
If that happens, I will be very disappointed in this organization. Again, it was only 10 years ago that Shanny had a 6-10 season and he only lost a QB. Yes, it was an HOF QB, but McD is almost starting from scratch. If we finish 6-10, I'll call it expected. Anything more is a positive.

But we didn't just lose a HoF QB that year. We lost both Sharpe AND Davis, by week four, for the season along with Elway.

CoachChaz
08-26-2009, 12:27 PM
But we didn't just lose a HoF QB that year. We lost both Sharpe AND Davis, by week four, for the season along with Elway.

Yeah...and our record for the 4 games we had everyone...0-4. After week 4 we were 6-6. Excuse denied

Ravage!!!
08-26-2009, 12:32 PM
Yeah...and our record for the 4 games we had everyone...0-4. After week 4 we were 6-6. Excuse denied

Not excuses.. facts. If you don't think that losing Sharpe and Davis by week four had anything to do with only winning 6 games, then I think you are being a bit blind.

CoachChaz
08-26-2009, 12:39 PM
Not excuses.. facts. If you don't think that losing Sharpe and Davis by week four had anything to do with only winning 6 games, then I think you are being a bit blind.

WE WERE 0-4 THROUGH WEEK 4!!!!

The team got better after they were gone. Not saying we were better off without them, but if we were 4-0, then went 2-10 after that...you'd have a point. We didnt. We sucked before that.

What's so damn hard about admitting that McD has a rebuilding job in front of him?

TXBRONC
08-26-2009, 12:49 PM
If that happens, I will be very disappointed in this organization. Again, it was only 10 years ago that Shanny had a 6-10 season and he only lost a QB. Yes, it was an HOF QB, but McD is almost starting from scratch. If we finish 6-10, I'll call it expected. Anything more is a positive.

Yeah Shanahan only had a Hall of Fame quarterback. I'm reasonably sure Elway was replaced with a second year quarterback with ZERO starting experience and litany of players that ended up on the IR including TD as it pointed out earlier. And McDaniels rebulding from scratch is by choice not because he had too.

claymore
08-26-2009, 12:54 PM
I think McDaniels has "it". This dude is a FOOTBALL TEAM coach. Cutler made Shanny his bitch, methinks, and I like that McDaniels is hard nosed and doesn't cater to the "rockstars" on the team. I like that his training camp was 99% in pads and full contact. I like that he stresses physical, hard nose play.

We might not have a great season this year, but I think we're going to surprise a lot of people, including our own fans and nay sayers. I don't know this, but it's a hunch, and regardless of all of the "death is here" people that post here, I will NEVER shoot down my team ESPECIALLY before a meaningful down is played.

Surrounding himself with yes men douche bags doesnt make him a good coach. He needs to be able to handle the personality of some of the elite NFL players.

Mike
08-26-2009, 12:56 PM
Surrounding himself with yes men douche bags doesnt make him a good coach. He needs to be able to handle the personality of some of the elite NFL players.

And some of those "elite" boneheads need to be shown their place.

CoachChaz
08-26-2009, 12:57 PM
Yeah Shanahan only had a Hall of Fame quarterback. I'm reasonably sure Elway was replaced with a second year quarterback with ZERO starting experience and litany of players that ended up on the IR including TD as it pointed out earlier. And McDaniels rebulding from scratch is by choice not because he had too.

The way people act, you'd think Cutler was a HoF QB. Nevertheless, McD took on a situation where ALOT of change was necessary


Surrounding himself with yes men douche bags doesnt make him a good coach. He needs to be able to handle the personality of some of the elite NFL players.

Yes men douche bags that have more rings and victories in the last 5 years than Shanny and his band of momma boys have.

Still assuming McD is totally at fault with the ONE player that had issues with him. I wish I were so easily swayed by the media. I guess ignorance truly is bliss.

G_Money
08-26-2009, 01:01 PM
WE WERE 0-4 THROUGH WEEK 4!!!!
What's so damn hard about admitting that McD has a rebuilding job in front of him?

I've seen the arguments that he doesn't have a rebuilding job, like Shanahan didn't thrash our defense and we're not switching to a new scheme, which is ludicrous - but Josh has made transforming the offense from Mike's way to his way harder with the Cutler thing. I know you believe Cutler busted out of here and I believe McDaniels disposed of him, but either way this would theoretically be easier with Cutler running the thing and sitting on Marshall's ego for another season.

But either way, there was gonna be rebuilding of at least half the puzzle. I'm not looking at record this year - I expect 6-10. I want progress. If Orton is he answer, I'll be stoked. If he is lost in the offense at season's end, or on IR, or replaced by Simms, or Ingle Martin, or Rod Smith...that's a problem. That's not rebuilding at QB, that's floundering at a key position.

But if we fix some of our defensive woes and deal with the Marshall situation, and our running attack stays strong, then at least ALL we have is a QB problem. It'll be a problem of Josh's making,but the rest of the fixes will be of his making too. I'd hate to be looking for a QB again, but the Vikings were doing all right trying to get that one hole plugged. Following their model (or the Ravens model, or whatever) of building a great team and trying to find a plug-and-play QB can work.

However, if the D is still a sieve in the front 7, the kids can't step up, our OL suffers from a transition away from our standard ZBS and our running game grinds to a halt with so many defenders in the box because Orton is horrible, we flip between 3-4 and 4-3 week to week again due to no NT...

That would not be progress, whatever our record.

I'm not hanging my hat on record this year, just on fixing the holes Shanahan left us with and not opening as many or more holes in other areas.

Is this a rebuilding job? Yes. It's harder to get from average to great than it is to get from sucky to average. Shanahan should have shown us that the last several years. We were very good at winding up being very average. Greatness was eluding us.

But will what McDaniels is doing prove to be rebuilding?

That's what I want to see this season. Everything else is window dressing.

~G

claymore
08-26-2009, 01:03 PM
And some of those "elite" boneheads need to be shown their place.
By a rookie head coach that hasnt won a game. Not ganna happen.


The way people act, you'd think Cutler was a HoF QB. Nevertheless, McD took on a situation where ALOT of change was necessary



Yes men douche bags that have more rings and victories in the last 5 years than Shanny and his band of momma boys have.

Still assuming McD is totally at fault with the ONE player that had issues with him. I wish I were so easily swayed by the media. I guess ignorance truly is bliss.

Yes, our long snapper has more SB rings than Shannahan has in the last 5 years.

I forgot how pivitol a signing he was. Its great to have that leadership out on the field.

TXBRONC
08-26-2009, 01:05 PM
The way people act, you'd think Cutler was a HoF QB. Nevertheless, McD took on a situation where ALOT of change was necessary



Still assuming McD is totally at fault with the ONE player that had issues with him. I wish I were so easily swayed by the media. I guess ignorance truly is bliss.

And you're still avoiding the fact that there is major difference between having a quarterback with no starting experience and verses intentionally dismantling the offense by trading an experienced starting quarterback. Yes ALOT of change on the defensive side of the ball was necessary.

Mike
08-26-2009, 01:07 PM
By a rookie head coach that hasnt won a game. Not ganna happen.

As opposed to two players who have proven they can't win either?

The coach is the coach. Mike Shanahan coddled players...just because he did doesn't mean that a new coach is willing to do the same.

And, for better or worse, it did happen.

CoachChaz
08-26-2009, 01:11 PM
The first point at hand is the debate between the McD/Cutler drama. Was Jay at fault? Was McD at fault? Maybe I'm one of very few that can say, I HAVE NO IDEA. Nevertheless, what's done is done. All i can do is look at what makes more sense.

Option 1...McD immediately assumes Cutler, with all his tools and skills, can't handle his offense (even thought he stated before the drama that he thought Jay would excel in it) and did everything he could to get rid of him at all costs and bring in a lesser QB that will have the same learning curve.

Option 2...McD LISTENS to a trade proposal and declines it knowing it will not improve the team enough to pull the trigger. jay finds out and states his discontent. The team insists he is the QB and the coach states he looks forward to working with him. jay refuses to talk to the coach without his agent and demands a trade. The owner requests to speak with jay who declines and leaves the team with no option, only to hear Jay later say he really never wanted a trade.

Now, with a first year coach on a short contract, I know which option I lean towards, but that's niether here nor there. Either way, McD has a defense to rebuild and an offense that needs fine-tuned. he brings a system and players to the organization to ensure success in every way possible as he's shown us. But...he cant do it all in one season. there just isnt enough money or opportunity to get all the right pieces in place.

But somehow, if we fail and lose...it's all his fault. I guess I'm just incapable of grasping that

claymore
08-26-2009, 01:11 PM
As opposed to two players who have proven they can't win either?

The coach is the coach. Mike Shanahan coddled players...just because he did doesn't mean that a new coach is willing to do the same.

And, for better or worse, it did happen.

We will get a taste of how bad we would have been last year without those 2 players real quick.

And you have no idea what Shannahan's relationship with those players were. You are just blindly saying crap to support your belief that JMCD's actions have been good for the team.

CoachChaz
08-26-2009, 01:12 PM
And you're still avoiding the fact that there is major difference between having a quarterback with no starting experience and verses intentionally dismantling the offense by trading an experienced starting quarterback. Yes ALOT of change on the defensive side of the ball was necessary.

Jaded assumption.


next please

Ravage!!!
08-26-2009, 01:12 PM
Jaded assumption.


next please

No more jaded than those that try to say McDaniels only "picked up the phone" listened to a trade deal and declined......

CoachChaz
08-26-2009, 01:13 PM
By a rookie head coach that hasnt won a game. Not ganna happen.
.


No. With young brats, it wont happen. Funny how all the veterans are willing to get behind the coach, but one of the kids wouldnt.

CoachChaz
08-26-2009, 01:15 PM
No more jaded than those that try to say McDaniels only "picked up the phone."

NONE OF US WERE THERE. Maybe he answered the phone, maybe it was his choice based on conversations with Jay, maybe he's truly retarded. until you or anyone else can provide distinct evidence of ANYTHING, it's all left to blind assumption.

That being said, we can move on and support our team or we can cry about it and pray for failure in order to see the coach fail. your choice

silkamilkamonico
08-26-2009, 01:16 PM
Jay Cutler essentially traded himself when he placed himself above the organization by not returning Pat Bowlen's phone calls.

Some of you guys are failing to understand that.

For the one's arguing Pat Bowlen to "get over that", tell that to Jay Cutler's glass emotional gina when McDaniels simply answered the telephone and listened. Big deal.

Mike
08-26-2009, 01:16 PM
We will get a taste of how bad we would have been last year without those 2 players real quick.

And you have no idea what Shannahan's relationship with those players were. You are just blindly saying crap to support your belief that JMCD's actions have been good for the team.

Sure thing, bud...but the same thing can be said about all your posts about McD and what has gone down. :beer:

For the record, I don't necessarily agree with what McD has done. I just choose not to get my panty's in a bunch and act like a kid who had his favorite toy taken away over something that is both already done and out of my control.

TXBRONC
08-26-2009, 01:18 PM
Jaded assumption.


next please

So much for you not making assumptions.

claymore
08-26-2009, 01:19 PM
The first point at hand is the debate between the McD/Cutler drama. Was Jay at fault? Was McD at fault? Maybe I'm one of very few that can say, I HAVE NO IDEA. Nevertheless, what's done is done. All i can do is look at what makes more sense.

Option 1...McD immediately assumes Cutler, with all his tools and skills, can't handle his offense (even thought he stated before the drama that he thought Jay would excel in it) and did everything he could to get rid of him at all costs and bring in a lesser QB that will have the same learning curve.

Option 2...McD LISTENS to a trade proposal and declines it knowing it will not improve the team enough to pull the trigger. jay finds out and states his discontent. The team insists he is the QB and the coach states he looks forward to working with him. jay refuses to talk to the coach without his agent and demands a trade. The owner requests to speak with jay who declines and leaves the team with no option, only to hear Jay later say he really never wanted a trade.

Now, with a first year coach on a short contract, I know which option I lean towards, but that's niether here nor there. Either way, McD has a defense to rebuild and an offense that needs fine-tuned. he brings a system and players to the organization to ensure success in every way possible as he's shown us. But...he cant do it all in one season. there just isnt enough money or opportunity to get all the right pieces in place.

But somehow, if we fail and lose...it's all his fault. I guess I'm just incapable of grasping that
The Offense needed fine tuned before he got here. Now it needs overhauled.

Finding a QB as good as Cutler, and a WR as good as Marshall is going to be difficult. It will take years and luck.

You say you have no idea who's fault it is, but your prone to blame Cutler in every post. You refuese to put any responsibility on the Coach. In the end it was probably all three (Bowlen) of their faults.

Unlike Bowlen, and Cutler, JMCD's has produced nothing for the Broncos yet. So its easier for me to be angry with him.

claymore
08-26-2009, 01:27 PM
No. With young brats, it wont happen. Funny how all the veterans are willing to get behind the coach, but one of the kids wouldnt.Wait till the losing starts.


Sure thing, bud...but the same thing can be said about all your posts about McD and what has gone down. :beer:

For the record, I don't necessarily agree with what McD has done. I just choose not to get my panty's in a bunch and act like a kid who had his favorite toy taken away over something that is both already done and out of my control.
Your right, I a pissed we lost Cutler, ive never hidden that.

Lonestar
08-26-2009, 01:30 PM
NONE OF US WERE THERE. Maybe he answered the phone, maybe it was his choice based on conversations with Jay, maybe he's truly retarded. until you or anyone else can provide distinct evidence of ANYTHING, it's all left to blind assumption.

That being said, we can move on and support our team or we can cry about it and pray for failure in order to see the coach fail. your choice


I can hear him now say, NO Bill I'm happy with jay, he has a lot of potential and then Bill saying, but he really wants to come to DEN because he knows your spread offense and it was a pleasure for him working with you.. He wants to play for you because of that..

What was Josh supposed to do cover his ears and silently humming Um Um Um Um while going into a lotus position..

I guess that is what the jay first crowd wants to believe.. let them..

Ravage!!!
08-26-2009, 01:35 PM
NONE OF US WERE THERE. Maybe he answered the phone, maybe it was his choice based on conversations with Jay, maybe he's truly retarded. until you or anyone else can provide distinct evidence of ANYTHING, it's all left to blind assumption.

That being said, we can move on and support our team or we can cry about it and pray for failure in order to see the coach fail. your choice

or maybe it was his choice based on nothing other than wanting Cassel.. :lol:

You try so hard to sound like you are being unbiased, but still can't seem to get there.

I have moved on. I'm sickened by it still, however. Especially when the season hasn't started and we have to face the VERY best player our team had last season. So yeah.. the sores are fresh. But complaining about how I/we felt the coach handled it doesn't mean I wish for him to fail. Those aren't handcuffed to one another.

But given all the interviews from the other coaches and franchises involved, I think it came out pretty damned clear that he didn't just "pick up the phone." He instigated that trade. Now you can say "we weren't in the room" all you want. That can be said for any murder trial as well. Thats why they only ask to have evidence beyond REASONABLE doubt. Not a purely "you saw what was happening" witness to figure out what happened.

But, as many have said, it doesn't matter why Cutler's not here. The end result is the same. I personally feel we are a much worse team than we we would have been if he was on the team... (being a "whiny baby" or whatever name you wish to call him). I only want the best players on the field. Ultimately, players win the games. Another reason why people/fans focus on this, and why it will be a continued focus throughout Bronco-land for years.

Its not a matter of wishing him failure...its a matter of him justifying a move that could very well put this franchise behind a LONG time. Franchises all over the NFL have searched for a Cutler-type talent...especially after losing one (Bills, Niners, Dallas, Miami..Denver)...and have failed for years trying to replace that QB while going through the coaching carousel

So the pressure is on McDaniels. Why? Because he showed that he thought this team would have been better with another QB... whether that be Cassel or whether it now be Orton. So yeah, I'm watching close. Yeah.. I'm expecting him to show this team is BETTER without Cutler. Ultimately thats what he sought after. I'm also flabbergasted at Bowlen. Not for purely hiring McDaniels (because at the time I was excited about the hire).. but because he then turned around and gives McDaniels the same power that Shanahan had, and we ALLLLLLL complained about that.

I can absolutely support my team, root for their wins, and hope for the best while being critical of decision made. I certainly don't have ANY high hopes this year... so that just makes the season easier to watch with a critical eye, and I'm certainly not in the minority on that perspective considering the offseason this team has had.

Ravage!!!
08-26-2009, 01:39 PM
I can hear him now say, NO Bill I'm happy with jay, he has a lot of potential and then Bill saying, but he really wants to come to DEN because he knows your spread offense and it was a pleasure for him working with you.. He wants to play for you because of that..

What was Josh supposed to do cover his ears and silently humming Um Um Um Um while going into a lotus position..

I guess that is what the jay first crowd wants to believe.. let them..

:lol:

THe "jay first" crowd. You would have more clout if you weren't an anti-Jay person from the day he was drafted.

Bill didn't call him and say "but he really wants to go to Denve" :lol: McDaniels called them, he instigated the trade for Cassel because he knew Brady was back and Cassel's contract would force them to either trade him, or pay the franchise tag on a back up. Its really not that hard to figure out.

But I guess the "blind will follow" crowed will only believe what is fed them... right JR? :lol: Is that ok, the "blind will follow" crowd fit?

claymore
08-26-2009, 01:40 PM
or maybe it was his choice based on nothing other than wanting Cassel.. :lol:

You try so hard to sound like you are being unbiased, but still can't seem to get there.

I have moved on. I'm sickened by it still, however. Especially when the season hasn't started and we have to face the VERY best player our team had last season. So yeah.. the sores are fresh. But complaining about how I/we felt the coach handled it doesn't mean I wish for him to fail. Those aren't handcuffed to one another.

But given all the interviews from the other coaches and franchises involved, I think it came out pretty damned clear that he didn't just "pick up the phone." He instigated that trade. Now you can say "we weren't in the room" all you want. That can be said for any murder trial as well. Thats why they only ask to have evidence beyond REASONABLE doubt. Not a purely "you saw what was happening" witness to figure out what happened.

But, as many have said, it doesn't matter why Cutler's not here. The end result is the same. I personally feel we are a much worse team than we we would have been if he was on the team... (being a "whiny baby" or whatever name you wish to call him). I only want the best players on the field. Ultimately, players win the games. Another reason why people/fans focus on this, and why it will be a continued focus throughout Bronco-land for years.

Its not a matter of wishing him failure...its a matter of him justifying a move that could very well put this franchise behind a LONG time. Franchises all over the NFL have searched for a Cutler-type talent...especially after losing one (Bills, Niners, Dallas, Miami..Denver)...and have failed for years trying to replace that QB while going through the coaching carousel

So the pressure is on McDaniels. Why? Because he showed that he thought this team would have been better with another QB... whether that be Cassel or whether it now be Orton. So yeah, I'm watching close. Yeah.. I'm expecting him to show this team is BETTER without Cutler. Ultimately thats what he sought after. I'm also flabbergasted at Bowlen. Not for purely hiring McDaniels (because at the time I was excited about the hire).. but because he then turned around and gives McDaniels the same power that Shanahan had, and we ALLLLLLL complained about that.

I can absolutely support my team, root for their wins, and hope for the best while being critical of decision made. I certainly don't have ANY high hopes this year... so that just makes the season easier to watch with a critical eye, and I'm certainly not in the minority on that perspective considering the offseason this team has had.

Great post. I wish I could make it my sig.

Tned
09-28-2009, 07:51 AM
Trading in shorts for pads: The McDaniels era has begun
by Tned

The Denver Broncos and their fans have had one of the best 25 year runs in NFL history. During the last quarter century, the Broncos have had five Super Bowl appearances, winning two of them. They have had only four losing seasons and no back-to-back losing seasons, while making the playoffs 13 times. A 25 year stretch that most owners and fans would love to have.

Is it a coincidence that Pat Bowlen bought the team 25 years ago? It may very well be his guidance of the Broncos that have lead to such success, or maybe it was the fortune of having the Great John Elway playing under center. Maybe it was the two head coaches that have lead the Broncos for 23 of the last 25 years. In all likelihood, all of these factors played a role in the great success the Broncos have enjoyed under Bowlen's ownership.

With the exception of a brief two year stint by Wade Phillips, the Broncos have had two long-tenured coaches. Dan Reeves coached the Broncos for 12 years (3 years before Bowlen bought the Broncos), and Mike Shanahan coached the Broncos for the last 14 years. Reeves lead the Broncos to 3 Super Bowl appearances, but failed to win any. Shanahan lead the Broncos to two Super Bowl appearances, winning both of them. One common thread that both coaches shared, was John Elway taking the snaps.

The years since Elway retired have not been quite as impressive -- at least not when measured against the high bar that the Broncos' themselves have set. Still, the team has had only two losing seasons over the last decade, and has made four playoff appearances, including reaching the AFC Championship game in 2005.

After missing the playoffs for three straight years, the longest stretch since Bowlen bought the team, he did something he had done only twice before -- he fired his head coach. After 14 years, the Mike Shanahan era came to an end.

Even with the Broncos playing .500 ball over the last three seasons, under Mike Shanahan the Broncos had nine winning seasons (against only two losing seasons), reached the playoffs seven times, played in three AFC Championship games (winning two) and won both Super Bowls the Broncos played in.

However, Pat Bowlen believed the organization needed to move in another direction. Even if the path he chose looks very familiar. Following the 1994 season, after the Broncos had gone 24-24 the previous three years, Mr. Bowlen turned to a young offensive genius. While Mike Shanahan started his NFL coaching career with the Broncos, he became nationally recognized as the offensive coordinator in San Francisco working with Joe Montana and Steve Young for three years, and helping San Francisco win the Super Bowl following the 1994 season. After two sub-par years with Wade Phillips as head coach, Pat Bowlen brought the now highly touted offensive coordinator Mike Shanahan back to the Broncos and named him the head coach.

Fast forward 14 years, and Pat has once again endured a three season stretch where the Broncos have gone 24-24, and is once again turning to a highly touted offensive coordinator. In this case, Josh McDaniels who has lead the New England Patriots' offense since 2005 (officially as offensive coordinator since 2006). While New England did not win the Super Bowl with McDaniels as their offensive coordinator, he lead Tom Brady and the Patriots offense in 2007 when the Patriots set the NFL record for touchdowns and points scored, while going undefeated in the regular seasons and winning 18 straight games, before ending their perfect season with a loss in the Super Bowl.

As great as the 2007 season was, many feel his greatest accomplishment was when Tom Brady went down with a season ending knee injury in week one of the 2008 season. Matt Cassel, a universally unknown quarterback, who spent both his college and NFL career as an obscure backup to Carson Palmer (USC), Matt Leinart (USC) and Tom Brady, was thrust into a starting role for the first time since high school. While the Patriots missed the playoffs in 2008, the combination of the record breaking performance in 2007 and helping Matt Cassel lead the Patriots to an 11 win season in 2008, thrust McDaniels into the spotlight as a leading candidate for the open head coaching positions following the 2008 season.

In an attempt to recapture past magic, Pat Bowlen once again turned to a young, talented offensive coordinator and hired Josh McDaniels -- ignoring conventional wisdom that said he should hire a defensive minded coach to fix the Broncos woeful defense.

While their youth and success as offensive coordinators were very similar, along with the fact they both joined the Broncos after a three year stretch of .500 ball, the similarities between Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels end there.

Those similarities clearly stop at their age and offensive coordinator pedigrees. Training camps under Shanahan were sometimes referred to as Club Shanahan, due to the fact that players were allowed to go home each night of camp, and the team rarely practiced in full pads, instead opting for shorts. Life got even easier during the regular season, when the team only practiced in pads after blowouts or a stretch of bad games . Instead, Shanahan believed that keeping players in shorts during the week of practice, would keep them fresh for the game. While there are arguments for and against practicing in shorts, one hallmark of the Shanahn era was that the Broncos often started the season fast, jumping out to five or six wins in the first seven games, only to fade down the stretch playing closer to .500 ball in the second half of the season.

Camp McDaniels couldn't be farther from Club Shanahan. McDaniels had players in pads for 22 of the 26 training camp practices, referring to them as "very physical". The physical nature wasn't just from wearing pads. The position coaches have put a huge emphasis on fundamentals, such as running a variety of full speed, full contact drills to teach proper tackling techniques, proper ball stripping techniques and many other football fundamentals.

It's no Club Med. When 14 year veteran center Casey Wiegmann, who is coming off a pro-bowl season, and backup quarterback Chris Simms fumbled a snap, they were rewarded by having to run a lap around the practice field. When the starting defense only had 10 men in the huddle during an 11 on 11 drill, the entire starting defensive unit ran a lap around the practice field. In fact, every player on the team had to pass a conditioning test, which consisted of three closely-spaced 100 yard sprints that had to be completed in a predetermined time, before they were allowed to participate in training camp. Most practices ended with the players running a 100 yard sprint, which sometimes a unit would be excused from as a reward if they did something special in practice.

Coach McDaniels has taken nothing for granted. Every practice was carefully scripted before training camp even began. There was a strong emphasis not only on extremely physical play, but also on teaching fundamentals that the rookies may have never been taught, and that veterans likely haven't practiced in years.

McDaniels seems to take an approach where you assume nothing, and prepare for everything. In camp, he was seen in the end zone playing the role of a defensive back, giving pointers to both receivers and corner backs. At other times, giving throwing tips to the quarterbacks. Since it isn't possible to properly simulate crowd noise, during designated practices he had music blaring throughout Dove Valley, so that the team would have to practice with limited ability to communicate verbally.

However, Coach McDaniels isn't all work and no play. Each day, he allowed a player to pick the music that the team would work out to. He would have little games like allowing a defensive linemen to attempt to field a punt to excuse the defensive unit from running the end-of-practice sprint. He also had one end of the field flooded one practice and had the rookies practicing fumble recoveries in the mud with water pelting them from hoses -- not so much for skill improvement, but instead some good old fashioned rookie hazing.

Is Camp McDaniels more effective than Club Shanahan? Which is more effective practice attire, shorts or pads? With three weeks left to the start of the season, these are questions that can't be answered. If the Broncos have a rash of injuries, many will likely point to the very physical camp as a reason for the injuries. On the other hand, if the missed tackles and other lack of fundamentals that have plagued the Broncos in recent years, are replaced with fundamentally sound, physical play, it will be hard not to credit the hard-nosed practice routine that McDaniels put the team through.

While it will be many years until we know if the McDaniels' era is as successful as the Shanahan era, one thing is for sure. The moment McDaniels had the players turn in their country-club shorts for a pair of football pads, he made one thing clear. He expects his players to practice the way they play, physically tough and fundamentally sound. Anything short of that has no place on Josh McDaniels' playing field.

Looks like McDaniels having the players turn in their shorts for pads is paying off...

frenchfan
09-28-2009, 08:31 AM
Looks like McDaniels having the players turn in their shorts for pads is paying off...Yep... It looks like our new coach knows his football... And after the Cutler saga (and mistake), he won the battle vs BM IMO...
BM has understood it's better to buy McD's approach and to accept his role... He'll have big bucks next year if he proves teams can rely on him (on and off the field).

I know it's only 3 games but for now, I'm pretty happy with what our coach has done yet...

Our players are well prepared... We played really well in second half this year... Sign that we are physically there... I hope we'll go on like that...
I don't think things are granted right now though... Still a lot of work to do and great teams to play...

Finally it seems like a fun football season after all :D :salute:

:defense:

Tned
10-12-2009, 12:02 PM
Trading in shorts for pads: The McDaniels era has begun
by Tned

The Denver Broncos and their fans have had one of the best 25 year runs in NFL history. During the last quarter century, the Broncos have had five Super Bowl appearances, winning two of them. They have had only four losing seasons and no back-to-back losing seasons, while making the playoffs 13 times. A 25 year stretch that most owners and fans would love to have.

Is it a coincidence that Pat Bowlen bought the team 25 years ago? It may very well be his guidance of the Broncos that have lead to such success, or maybe it was the fortune of having the Great John Elway playing under center. Maybe it was the two head coaches that have lead the Broncos for 23 of the last 25 years. In all likelihood, all of these factors played a role in the great success the Broncos have enjoyed under Bowlen's ownership.

With the exception of a brief two year stint by Wade Phillips, the Broncos have had two long-tenured coaches. Dan Reeves coached the Broncos for 12 years (3 years before Bowlen bought the Broncos), and Mike Shanahan coached the Broncos for the last 14 years. Reeves lead the Broncos to 3 Super Bowl appearances, but failed to win any. Shanahan lead the Broncos to two Super Bowl appearances, winning both of them. One common thread that both coaches shared, was John Elway taking the snaps.

The years since Elway retired have not been quite as impressive -- at least not when measured against the high bar that the Broncos' themselves have set. Still, the team has had only two losing seasons over the last decade, and has made four playoff appearances, including reaching the AFC Championship game in 2005.

After missing the playoffs for three straight years, the longest stretch since Bowlen bought the team, he did something he had done only twice before -- he fired his head coach. After 14 years, the Mike Shanahan era came to an end.

Even with the Broncos playing .500 ball over the last three seasons, under Mike Shanahan the Broncos had nine winning seasons (against only two losing seasons), reached the playoffs seven times, played in three AFC Championship games (winning two) and won both Super Bowls the Broncos played in.

However, Pat Bowlen believed the organization needed to move in another direction. Even if the path he chose looks very familiar. Following the 1994 season, after the Broncos had gone 24-24 the previous three years, Mr. Bowlen turned to a young offensive genius. While Mike Shanahan started his NFL coaching career with the Broncos, he became nationally recognized as the offensive coordinator in San Francisco working with Joe Montana and Steve Young for three years, and helping San Francisco win the Super Bowl following the 1994 season. After two sub-par years with Wade Phillips as head coach, Pat Bowlen brought the now highly touted offensive coordinator Mike Shanahan back to the Broncos and named him the head coach.

Fast forward 14 years, and Pat has once again endured a three season stretch where the Broncos have gone 24-24, and is once again turning to a highly touted offensive coordinator. In this case, Josh McDaniels who has lead the New England Patriots' offense since 2005 (officially as offensive coordinator since 2006). While New England did not win the Super Bowl with McDaniels as their offensive coordinator, he lead Tom Brady and the Patriots offense in 2007 when the Patriots set the NFL record for touchdowns and points scored, while going undefeated in the regular seasons and winning 18 straight games, before ending their perfect season with a loss in the Super Bowl.

As great as the 2007 season was, many feel his greatest accomplishment was when Tom Brady went down with a season ending knee injury in week one of the 2008 season. Matt Cassel, a universally unknown quarterback, who spent both his college and NFL career as an obscure backup to Carson Palmer (USC), Matt Leinart (USC) and Tom Brady, was thrust into a starting role for the first time since high school. While the Patriots missed the playoffs in 2008, the combination of the record breaking performance in 2007 and helping Matt Cassel lead the Patriots to an 11 win season in 2008, thrust McDaniels into the spotlight as a leading candidate for the open head coaching positions following the 2008 season.

In an attempt to recapture past magic, Pat Bowlen once again turned to a young, talented offensive coordinator and hired Josh McDaniels -- ignoring conventional wisdom that said he should hire a defensive minded coach to fix the Broncos woeful defense.

While their youth and success as offensive coordinators were very similar, along with the fact they both joined the Broncos after a three year stretch of .500 ball, the similarities between Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels end there.

Those similarities clearly stop at their age and offensive coordinator pedigrees. Training camps under Shanahan were sometimes referred to as Club Shanahan, due to the fact that players were allowed to go home each night of camp, and the team rarely practiced in full pads, instead opting for shorts. Life got even easier during the regular season, when the team only practiced in pads after blowouts or a stretch of bad games . Instead, Shanahan believed that keeping players in shorts during the week of practice, would keep them fresh for the game. While there are arguments for and against practicing in shorts, one hallmark of the Shanahn era was that the Broncos often started the season fast, jumping out to five or six wins in the first seven games, only to fade down the stretch playing closer to .500 ball in the second half of the season.

Camp McDaniels couldn't be farther from Club Shanahan. McDaniels had players in pads for 22 of the 26 training camp practices, referring to them as "very physical". The physical nature wasn't just from wearing pads. The position coaches have put a huge emphasis on fundamentals, such as running a variety of full speed, full contact drills to teach proper tackling techniques, proper ball stripping techniques and many other football fundamentals.

It's no Club Med. When 14 year veteran center Casey Wiegmann, who is coming off a pro-bowl season, and backup quarterback Chris Simms fumbled a snap, they were rewarded by having to run a lap around the practice field. When the starting defense only had 10 men in the huddle during an 11 on 11 drill, the entire starting defensive unit ran a lap around the practice field. In fact, every player on the team had to pass a conditioning test, which consisted of three closely-spaced 100 yard sprints that had to be completed in a predetermined time, before they were allowed to participate in training camp. Most practices ended with the players running a 100 yard sprint, which sometimes a unit would be excused from as a reward if they did something special in practice.

Coach McDaniels has taken nothing for granted. Every practice was carefully scripted before training camp even began. There was a strong emphasis not only on extremely physical play, but also on teaching fundamentals that the rookies may have never been taught, and that veterans likely haven't practiced in years.

McDaniels seems to take an approach where you assume nothing, and prepare for everything. In camp, he was seen in the end zone playing the role of a defensive back, giving pointers to both receivers and corner backs. At other times, giving throwing tips to the quarterbacks. Since it isn't possible to properly simulate crowd noise, during designated practices he had music blaring throughout Dove Valley, so that the team would have to practice with limited ability to communicate verbally.

However, Coach McDaniels isn't all work and no play. Each day, he allowed a player to pick the music that the team would work out to. He would have little games like allowing a defensive linemen to attempt to field a punt to excuse the defensive unit from running the end-of-practice sprint. He also had one end of the field flooded one practice and had the rookies practicing fumble recoveries in the mud with water pelting them from hoses -- not so much for skill improvement, but instead some good old fashioned rookie hazing.

Is Camp McDaniels more effective than Club Shanahan? Which is more effective practice attire, shorts or pads? With three weeks left to the start of the season, these are questions that can't be answered. If the Broncos have a rash of injuries, many will likely point to the very physical camp as a reason for the injuries. On the other hand, if the missed tackles and other lack of fundamentals that have plagued the Broncos in recent years, are replaced with fundamentally sound, physical play, it will be hard not to credit the hard-nosed practice routine that McDaniels put the team through.

While it will be many years until we know if the McDaniels' era is as successful as the Shanahan era, one thing is for sure. The moment McDaniels had the players turn in their country-club shorts for a pair of football pads, he made one thing clear. He expects his players to practice the way they play, physically tough and fundamentally sound. Anything short of that has no place on Josh McDaniels' playing field.

So far, pads seem to be trumping shorts.

Watchthemiddle
10-12-2009, 12:05 PM
So far, pads seem to be trumping shorts.

It sure does seem like we are tougher for it.

I am not seeing as many injuries (as some in the preseason said we would see) or missed tackles this season.

Tned
10-12-2009, 12:25 PM
It sure does seem like we are tougher for it.

I am not seeing as many injuries (as some in the preseason said we would see) or missed tackles this season.

While the Dallas first half was really sloppy in terms of tackling, overall I think this is a MUCH better tackling team than the last few years.

Lonestar
10-12-2009, 02:21 PM
Does anyone really think we would have been 5-0 and being a leader in defense if Pat had not made a change last year?

skycoyote
10-12-2009, 04:19 PM
Good article Tned, you should sell it to the Denver Post.

Tned
05-05-2010, 09:11 PM
Is Camp McDaniels more effective than Club Shanahan? Which is more effective practice attire, shorts or pads? With three weeks left to the start of the season, these are questions that can't be answered. If the Broncos have a rash of injuries, many will likely point to the very physical camp as a reason for the injuries. On the other hand, if the missed tackles and other lack of fundamentals that have plagued the Broncos in recent years, are replaced with fundamentally sound, physical play, it will be hard not to credit the hard-nosed practice routine that McDaniels put the team through.

While it will be many years until we know if the McDaniels' era is as successful as the Shanahan era, one thing is for sure. The moment McDaniels had the players turn in their country-club shorts for a pair of football pads, he made one thing clear. He expects his players to practice the way they play, physically tough and fundamentally sound. Anything short of that has no place on Josh McDaniels' playing field.

Ironically, Camp McDaniels and Club Shanahan both resulted in a rocket start and second half collapse.

Hopefully, year two of Club McDaniels will break what has become Bronco trademark, even with over half the team and virtually the entire coaching staff replaced.

Bosco
05-06-2010, 12:17 PM
The Broncos Club Med-style practice atmosphere worked extremely well when the team was full of veterans. This was truest in the 90's, when coming to play in Denver didn't mean grueling camps. As the team got younger and younger and the talent pool more diluted, this worked less and less and to a true disadvantage. This is not only evidenced by the catastrophic injuries the last two seasons, but by playing sloppy, uninspired, and lacking the most basic fundamentals like sound tackling.

This post is spot on.


I personally believe it was never about "trading Jay Cutler". McDaniels didn't come in and say "we need top trade Jay Cutler". He simply listenend to a phone call about possibly acquiring Matt Cassell, his former QB, who he invested 3 years in.

After that it just escalated, and both sides could have handled it much much better. The bottom line is, like you said, Jay Cutler got his glass emotional gina hurt.

This is exactly what happened and confirmed by the likes of Adam Schefter and Peter King. Jay Cutler wanted and requested a trade after Bates was let go and simply used the trade rumors as justification for his little PR war with the team.

Tned
05-06-2010, 12:23 PM
This is exactly what happened and confirmed by the likes of Adam Schefter and Peter King. Jay Cutler wanted and requested a trade after Bates was let go and simply used the trade rumors as justification for his little PR war with the team.

It's also been confirmed that McDaniels was talking about trading for Cassel during the combine, so it wasn't just like it was just a phone call, spur of the moment thing.

Lonestar
05-06-2010, 12:54 PM
:lol:

THe "jay first" crowd. You would have more clout if you weren't an anti-Jay person from the day he was drafted.

Bill didn't call him and say "but he really wants to go to Denve" :lol: McDaniels called them, he instigated the trade for Cassel because he knew Brady was back and Cassel's contract would force them to either trade him, or pay the franchise tag on a back up. Its really not that hard to figure out.

But I guess the "blind will follow" crowed will only believe what is fed them... right JR? :lol: Is that ok, the "blind will follow" crowd fit?

As usual you continue to believe that if you repeat something enough, people will eventually believe it.

For the record I was not anti Jay from the day he was drafted.

I was for the record anti anything BUT DT being drafted it could have been John Elway I would have still wanted a KEY component the mike NEVER fixed the middle of the DLINE .

Mikes inability to stop the hemorrhaging on Defense is what ultimately got him fired. WHo know had he taken either of these two DL guys


12 Haloti Ngata DT Oregon Baltimore Ravens
14 Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida State Philadelphia Eagles

his firing may not have happened and you would still be singing the praises of the master mind.


Come back some time WHEN you can definitively prove the He did not just pick up the phone to listen to a trade offer and not spread your hate towards the guy that replaced mike.

BTW if you were not so anti Jake and so pro JAY you might have some credibility when bringing up the subject.

Bosco
05-06-2010, 12:59 PM
It's also been confirmed that McDaniels was talking about trading for Cassel during the combine, so it wasn't just like it was just a phone call, spur of the moment thing.

Confirmed by who?

Lonestar
05-06-2010, 01:02 PM
It sure does seem like we are tougher for it.

I am not seeing as many injuries (as some in the preseason said we would see) or missed tackles this season.


for that matter I do not think we had but a couple Groin injuries all year, but the Hammys were up IIRC.

At least they were just before the last game.:laugh:

We just ran out of gas fro the most part last year. Not having the right guys in place on the DL did not help matters.
For that matter losing Harris killed us on O, along with Hamilton not being a good candidate for BLOCKING with the big boys.

to say the least this team is a work in progress and as long as we improve each year NOt sure what else can be expected.

Tned
05-06-2010, 01:38 PM
Confirmed by who?

I'll dig a little. My recollection is that McDaniels said it in an interview, but I wouldn't want to swear to that, it could have been someone else recounting it.

Dean
05-06-2010, 07:51 PM
If that happens, I will be very disappointed in this organization. Again, it was only 10 years ago that Shanny had a 6-10 season and he only lost a QB. Yes, it was an HOF QB, but McD is almost starting from scratch. If we finish 6-10, I'll call it expected. Anything more is a positive.

He also lost TD and a host of other starters. Don't you remember?

Ravage!!!
05-06-2010, 07:54 PM
He also lost TD and a host of other starters. Don't you remember?

Lost both TD and Sharpe in the first 5 games of the season, I believe... not to mention several others. That was a horrible years for injuries

Ravage!!!
05-06-2010, 08:14 PM
As usual you continue to believe that if you repeat something enough, people will eventually believe it.

For the record I was not anti Jay from the day he was drafted.

I was for the record anti anything BUT DT being drafted it could have been John Elway I would have still wanted a KEY component the mike NEVER fixed the middle of the DLINE .

Mikes inability to stop the hemorrhaging on Defense is what ultimately got him fired. WHo know had he taken either of these two DL guys


12 Haloti Ngata DT Oregon Baltimore Ravens
14 Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida State Philadelphia Eagles

his firing may not have happened and you would still be singing the praises of the master mind.


Come back some time WHEN you can definitively prove the He did not just pick up the phone to listen to a trade offer and not spread your hate towards the guy that replaced mike.

BTW if you were not so anti Jake and so pro JAY you might have some credibility when bringing up the subject.

You have proven, yet again, to be the ABSOLUTE BIGGEST hypocrite on the site. You are an absolute joke with this post.

For one.. you can't stop spouting off the same thing over and over and over and over and over again. Your name alone is now defined as "repeat hate." Thats what you do. Thats what you are known for. That and the absolute childish nicknames you use.

2) Ihaven't spread "hate" for anyone :lol: Again, such an unbelievable hypocrite you are. Amazing that you can go-on-and-on-and-on-and-ON about your dislike for Shanahan (even after he's been gone) and then turn around and tell ANYONE to stop posting dislike for a coach???? Give me a 'effing break. This is why you are a complete JOKE.

3) You were absolutely against Cutler from the moment he was drafted because you LOVED Plummer... and hated the that those whom referred to him as 'average'... was correct. The coaching staff agreed with people that weren't as enthralled with Plummer's "love" for the game. You HATED that Mtn_man predicted that we would draft Cutler, and then rubbed it in your face. On the draft day boards.. you called him Jay "Cutlet"... and then tried to spin that as an "accident" caused by your "dyslexia." He replaced your boi, and you have been crying since..... and it had NOTHING to do with you "wishing" for a DL.

Being "anti-jake" has absolutely NOTHING with being pro-Jay.... but you are just too dense to understand that.

BTW... come back WHEN you have any credibility whatsoever.... since EVERYONE on this board knows that YOU.. YOU... are the one that brings up Cutler more than ANYONE else combined. You are one of the biggest hypocrites I've seen.

Lonestar
05-06-2010, 10:08 PM
You have proven, yet again, to be the ABSOLUTE BIGGEST hypocrite on the site. You are an absolute joke with this post.

For one.. you can't stop spouting off the same thing over and over and over and over and over again. Your name alone is now defined as "repeat hate." Thats what you do. Thats what you are known for. That and the absolute childish nicknames you use.

2) Ihaven't spread "hate" for anyone :lol: Again, such an unbelievable hypocrite you are. Amazing that you can go-on-and-on-and-on-and-ON about your dislike for Shanahan (even after he's been gone) and then turn around and tell ANYONE to stop posting dislike for a coach???? Give me a 'effing break. This is why you are a complete JOKE.

3) You were absolutely against Cutler from the moment he was drafted because you LOVED Plummer... and hated the that those whom referred to him as 'average'... was correct. The coaching staff agreed with people that weren't as enthralled with Plummer's "love" for the game. You HATED that Mtn_man predicted that we would draft Cutler, and then rubbed it in your face. On the draft day boards.. you called him Jay "Cutlet"... and then tried to spin that as an "accident" caused by your "dyslexia." He replaced your boi, and you have been crying since..... and it had NOTHING to do with you "wishing" for a DL.

Being "anti-jake" has absolutely NOTHING with being pro-Jay.... but you are just too dense to understand that.

BTW... come back WHEN you have any credibility whatsoever.... since EVERYONE on this board knows that YOU.. YOU... are the one that brings up Cutler more than ANYONE else combined. You are one of the biggest hypocrites I've seen.


Well you really told me off didn't you. Hope you feel better for it. :salute:

Denver Native (Carol)
05-06-2010, 10:28 PM
This is exactly what happened and confirmed by the likes of Adam Schefter and Peter King. Jay Cutler wanted and requested a trade after Bates was let go and simply used the trade rumors as justification for his little PR war with the team.

Peter King's article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/02/cutler.reaction.ap/index.html?eref=yahoo_buzz

Jay Cutler has three people to blame for his trade from the most talented young offensive team in football to one of the least:

1. Jay Cutler.

2. Jay Cutler.

3. Jay Cutler.

Lots of great players in NFL history have been traded, including lots of great quarterbacks -- Steve Young, Fran Tarkenton, John Unitas, Bobby Layne. Lots of quarterbacks have been subjects of trade rumors, including the one and only John Elway, who preceded Cutler as the face of the Broncos; Dan Reeves almost sent Elway to the Redskins midway through his career. And Elway was ticked, but he got over it. Cutler was ticked when the Broncos tried and failed to acquire Matt Cassel Feb. 26, and for some reason -- ego, pride, immaturity, or maybe all of the above -- he couldn't get over it.

I laughed when I read Cutler's quotes to Jay Glazer Wednesday night, the ones about him not wanting to be traded. Kid, either you or your agent asked to be traded after Mike Shanahan and offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates left the organization, and your agent asked for a trade again on March 14. Come on. You can only cry wolf so many times before you finally get called on it.

The other thing that happened here is that Denver owner Pat Bowlen grabbed this process by the horns and made the trade to Chicago happen. I will believe for a long time that Josh McDaniels wanted to take a passive approach here and let some rattled nerves calm down; and at some point before the draft, he'd try to make peace with Cutler. That's the strong impression he left me with a week ago at the league meetings. But when Cutler continued to duck the Broncos, Bowlen had enough. "You do not mess with Pat Bowlen, and you definitely do not ignore him,'' a man who knows Bowlen well told me this week. Cutler ignored him. That lit the fuse for the stunning trade to the Bears.

Bosco
05-07-2010, 02:17 AM
Peter King's article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/02/cutler.reaction.ap/index.html?eref=yahoo_buzz

Jay Cutler has three people to blame for his trade from the most talented young offensive team in football to one of the least:

1. Jay Cutler.

2. Jay Cutler.

3. Jay Cutler.

Lots of great players in NFL history have been traded, including lots of great quarterbacks -- Steve Young, Fran Tarkenton, John Unitas, Bobby Layne. Lots of quarterbacks have been subjects of trade rumors, including the one and only John Elway, who preceded Cutler as the face of the Broncos; Dan Reeves almost sent Elway to the Redskins midway through his career. And Elway was ticked, but he got over it. Cutler was ticked when the Broncos tried and failed to acquire Matt Cassel Feb. 26, and for some reason -- ego, pride, immaturity, or maybe all of the above -- he couldn't get over it.

I laughed when I read Cutler's quotes to Jay Glazer Wednesday night, the ones about him not wanting to be traded. Kid, either you or your agent asked to be traded after Mike Shanahan and offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates left the organization, and your agent asked for a trade again on March 14. Come on. You can only cry wolf so many times before you finally get called on it.

The other thing that happened here is that Denver owner Pat Bowlen grabbed this process by the horns and made the trade to Chicago happen. I will believe for a long time that Josh McDaniels wanted to take a passive approach here and let some rattled nerves calm down; and at some point before the draft, he'd try to make peace with Cutler. That's the strong impression he left me with a week ago at the league meetings. But when Cutler continued to duck the Broncos, Bowlen had enough. "You do not mess with Pat Bowlen, and you definitely do not ignore him,'' a man who knows Bowlen well told me this week. Cutler ignored him. That lit the fuse for the stunning trade to the Bears.

And yet people still want to hold this over Josh's head.

Dirk
05-07-2010, 05:48 AM
All this again? :tsk:

Come on guys...we gots Tebow now! :coffee:

Tned
05-07-2010, 06:45 AM
All this again? :tsk:

Come on guys...we gots Tebow now! :coffee:

Yea, I made the mistake of bumping the old thread. I bumped it becuase I had compared the circumstances of hiring both coaches, but contrasted their training philosiphies.

I find it interesting that the same start fast, collapse late theme the season occurred with so many new players and coaches. I thought we might get some discussion on that, rather than rehashing the same old one sided views on Jay/Josh/Mike/Marshall.

Elevation inc
05-07-2010, 07:02 AM
tebow 2010 Savior.......

Tned
12-07-2010, 04:15 PM
Trading in shorts for pads: The McDaniels era has begun
by Tned

The Denver Broncos and their fans have had one of the best 25 year runs in NFL history. During the last quarter century, the Broncos have had five Super Bowl appearances, winning two of them. They have had only four losing seasons and no back-to-back losing seasons, while making the playoffs 13 times. A 25 year stretch that most owners and fans would love to have.

Is it a coincidence that Pat Bowlen bought the team 25 years ago? It may very well be his guidance of the Broncos that have lead to such success, or maybe it was the fortune of having the Great John Elway playing under center. Maybe it was the two head coaches that have lead the Broncos for 23 of the last 25 years. In all likelihood, all of these factors played a role in the great success the Broncos have enjoyed under Bowlen's ownership.

With the exception of a brief two year stint by Wade Phillips, the Broncos have had two long-tenured coaches. Dan Reeves coached the Broncos for 12 years (3 years before Bowlen bought the Broncos), and Mike Shanahan coached the Broncos for the last 14 years. Reeves lead the Broncos to 3 Super Bowl appearances, but failed to win any. Shanahan lead the Broncos to two Super Bowl appearances, winning both of them. One common thread that both coaches shared, was John Elway taking the snaps.

The years since Elway retired have not been quite as impressive -- at least not when measured against the high bar that the Broncos' themselves have set. Still, the team has had only two losing seasons over the last decade, and has made four playoff appearances, including reaching the AFC Championship game in 2005.

After missing the playoffs for three straight years, the longest stretch since Bowlen bought the team, he did something he had done only twice before -- he fired his head coach. After 14 years, the Mike Shanahan era came to an end.

Even with the Broncos playing .500 ball over the last three seasons, under Mike Shanahan the Broncos had nine winning seasons (against only two losing seasons), reached the playoffs seven times, played in three AFC Championship games (winning two) and won both Super Bowls the Broncos played in.

However, Pat Bowlen believed the organization needed to move in another direction. Even if the path he chose looks very familiar. Following the 1994 season, after the Broncos had gone 24-24 the previous three years, Mr. Bowlen turned to a young offensive genius. While Mike Shanahan started his NFL coaching career with the Broncos, he became nationally recognized as the offensive coordinator in San Francisco working with Joe Montana and Steve Young for three years, and helping San Francisco win the Super Bowl following the 1994 season. After two sub-par years with Wade Phillips as head coach, Pat Bowlen brought the now highly touted offensive coordinator Mike Shanahan back to the Broncos and named him the head coach.

Fast forward 14 years, and Pat has once again endured a three season stretch where the Broncos have gone 24-24, and is once again turning to a highly touted offensive coordinator. In this case, Josh McDaniels who has lead the New England Patriots' offense since 2005 (officially as offensive coordinator since 2006). While New England did not win the Super Bowl with McDaniels as their offensive coordinator, he lead Tom Brady and the Patriots offense in 2007 when the Patriots set the NFL record for touchdowns and points scored, while going undefeated in the regular seasons and winning 18 straight games, before ending their perfect season with a loss in the Super Bowl.

As great as the 2007 season was, many feel his greatest accomplishment was when Tom Brady went down with a season ending knee injury in week one of the 2008 season. Matt Cassel, a universally unknown quarterback, who spent both his college and NFL career as an obscure backup to Carson Palmer (USC), Matt Leinart (USC) and Tom Brady, was thrust into a starting role for the first time since high school. While the Patriots missed the playoffs in 2008, the combination of the record breaking performance in 2007 and helping Matt Cassel lead the Patriots to an 11 win season in 2008, thrust McDaniels into the spotlight as a leading candidate for the open head coaching positions following the 2008 season.

In an attempt to recapture past magic, Pat Bowlen once again turned to a young, talented offensive coordinator and hired Josh McDaniels -- ignoring conventional wisdom that said he should hire a defensive minded coach to fix the Broncos woeful defense.

While their youth and success as offensive coordinators were very similar, along with the fact they both joined the Broncos after a three year stretch of .500 ball, the similarities between Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels end there.

Those similarities clearly stop at their age and offensive coordinator pedigrees. Training camps under Shanahan were sometimes referred to as Club Shanahan, due to the fact that players were allowed to go home each night of camp, and the team rarely practiced in full pads, instead opting for shorts. Life got even easier during the regular season, when the team only practiced in pads after blowouts or a stretch of bad games . Instead, Shanahan believed that keeping players in shorts during the week of practice, would keep them fresh for the game. While there are arguments for and against practicing in shorts, one hallmark of the Shanahn era was that the Broncos often started the season fast, jumping out to five or six wins in the first seven games, only to fade down the stretch playing closer to .500 ball in the second half of the season.

Camp McDaniels couldn't be farther from Club Shanahan. McDaniels had players in pads for 22 of the 26 training camp practices, referring to them as "very physical". The physical nature wasn't just from wearing pads. The position coaches have put a huge emphasis on fundamentals, such as running a variety of full speed, full contact drills to teach proper tackling techniques, proper ball stripping techniques and many other football fundamentals.

It's no Club Med. When 14 year veteran center Casey Wiegmann, who is coming off a pro-bowl season, and backup quarterback Chris Simms fumbled a snap, they were rewarded by having to run a lap around the practice field. When the starting defense only had 10 men in the huddle during an 11 on 11 drill, the entire starting defensive unit ran a lap around the practice field. In fact, every player on the team had to pass a conditioning test, which consisted of three closely-spaced 100 yard sprints that had to be completed in a predetermined time, before they were allowed to participate in training camp. Most practices ended with the players running a 100 yard sprint, which sometimes a unit would be excused from as a reward if they did something special in practice.

Coach McDaniels has taken nothing for granted. Every practice was carefully scripted before training camp even began. There was a strong emphasis not only on extremely physical play, but also on teaching fundamentals that the rookies may have never been taught, and that veterans likely haven't practiced in years.

McDaniels seems to take an approach where you assume nothing, and prepare for everything. In camp, he was seen in the end zone playing the role of a defensive back, giving pointers to both receivers and corner backs. At other times, giving throwing tips to the quarterbacks. Since it isn't possible to properly simulate crowd noise, during designated practices he had music blaring throughout Dove Valley, so that the team would have to practice with limited ability to communicate verbally.

However, Coach McDaniels isn't all work and no play. Each day, he allowed a player to pick the music that the team would work out to. He would have little games like allowing a defensive linemen to attempt to field a punt to excuse the defensive unit from running the end-of-practice sprint. He also had one end of the field flooded one practice and had the rookies practicing fumble recoveries in the mud with water pelting them from hoses -- not so much for skill improvement, but instead some good old fashioned rookie hazing.

Is Camp McDaniels more effective than Club Shanahan? Which is more effective practice attire, shorts or pads? With three weeks left to the start of the season, these are questions that can't be answered. If the Broncos have a rash of injuries, many will likely point to the very physical camp as a reason for the injuries. On the other hand, if the missed tackles and other lack of fundamentals that have plagued the Broncos in recent years, are replaced with fundamentally sound, physical play, it will be hard not to credit the hard-nosed practice routine that McDaniels put the team through.

While it will be many years until we know if the McDaniels' era is as successful as the Shanahan era, one thing is for sure. The moment McDaniels had the players turn in their country-club shorts for a pair of football pads, he made one thing clear. He expects his players to practice the way they play, physically tough and fundamentally sound. Anything short of that has no place on Josh McDaniels' playing field.

Well, this is no longer a question. Camp McDaniels failed to outperform Club Shanahan. Good luck to the next coach.

shank
12-07-2010, 04:24 PM
Well, this is no longer a question. Camp McDaniels failed to outperform Club Shanahan. Good luck to the next coach.

maybe the next guy will try padded shorts.

elsid13
12-07-2010, 04:36 PM
maybe the next guy will try padded shorts.

I am sure beef is looking forward to the bicycle spandex practices

G_Money
12-07-2010, 04:45 PM
After the anal abuse McDaniels has inflicted on the fans and the organization the last two years, I think we all could use some padded shorts.

~G

Tned
12-07-2010, 04:57 PM
After the anal abuse McDaniels has inflicted on the fans and the organization the last two years, I think we all could use some padded shorts.

~G

Even though I am on board with the fact it was time for a change, hopefully NOW those people that thought the '99-'08 stretch under Shanahan was a complete disaster, actually understand what a "complete disaster" looks like.

TXBRONC
12-07-2010, 05:40 PM
Even though I am on board with the fact it was time for a change, hopefully NOW those people that thought the '99-'08 stretch under Shanahan was a complete disaster, actually understand what a "complete disaster" looks like.

It might take awhile. There are some people who are saying right now we are no worse off than when McDaniels came. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but at 3-9 and losing what 16 of the last 21 we're no worse off?

SOCALORADO.
12-07-2010, 05:48 PM
It might take away. There are some people who are saying right now we are no worse off than when McDaniels came. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but at 3-9 and losing what 16 of the last 21 we're no worse off?

DEN is in deep, deep trouble.
Much more than 2 years ago.
That why getting the right VP-GM-HC
is so important right now.
DEN is hanging from the edge of the cliff.
Could get real ugly or.......

Tned
12-07-2010, 06:16 PM
It might take away. There are some people who are saying right now we are no worse off than when McDaniels came. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but at 3-9 and losing what 16 of the last 21 we're no worse off?

Yea, these would be people that say Megan Fox is ugly or Sean Penn is a right wing, conservative.

Just because people state something that isn't true, doesn't make it anymore true.

Day1BroncoFan
12-07-2010, 07:31 PM
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8978/sadjoshmcdanielssucks.jpg

I Eat Staples
12-07-2010, 10:09 PM
Reading the support of McD in the first few pages is nice for some laughs.

I can proudly say this joker never fooled me.

BroncoWave
12-07-2010, 10:42 PM
Reading the support of McD in the first few pages is nice for some laughs.

I can proudly say this joker never fooled me.

http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~rkhosla/cookie.jpg

sneakers
12-08-2010, 12:26 AM
Well, this is no longer a question. Camp McDaniels failed to outperform Club Shanahan. Good luck to the next coach.

**** yea tned! bumping old threads rocks!

Tned
12-08-2010, 12:31 AM
**** yea tned! bumping old threads rocks!

Yea, I thought about bumping one where I said McDaniels would be fired in 2-3 years, and was going to make a lot of rookie mistakes, but that seemed too self aggrandizing... ;)

Dreadnought
12-08-2010, 07:44 AM
Yea, I thought about bumping one where I said McDaniels would be fired in 2-3 years, and was going to make a lot of rookie mistakes, but that seemed too self aggrandizing... ;)

No, go ahead and bump it. You were wrong, anyways, because he didn't actually last 2 years :D

Tned
12-08-2010, 08:47 AM
No, go ahead and bump it. You were wrong, anyways, because he didn't actually last 2 years :D

Truthfully, the only reason I was pulling for an off-season firing, was because I never predicted him not making it two years. Very few NFL head coaches have failed so badly that they are fired before they finish their second year. I based my prediction not on not liking McDaniels, but simply what 'typically' happens in the NFL, especially when it comes to young, first time HC's.

TXBRONC
12-08-2010, 08:56 AM
DEN is in deep, deep trouble.
Much more than 2 years ago.
That why getting the right VP-GM-HC
is so important right now.
DEN is hanging from the edge of the cliff.
Could get real ugly or.......

The right management team can make a huge difference and hopefully that will be the case in Denver.