Denver Playoff Watch

[Tned]

Ok, while a lot of you are focused on where the Broncos will draft in '08, I am still looking for the team to continue to improve and get a playoff berth.

While I think it is possible to get a wild card spot, I think that is a harder road than winning the division.

If the Broncos do have a shot at the wild card, their best shot might be getting into a three way tie with the two AFC South Team not playing in a dome in Indy. Much in the way that Denver got kicked out in a three way tie, because they first applied a division tie breaker that KC won, the Broncos could have Ten or Jax kicked out in a three way tie, even if Jax and Ten both would beat them if they were in three seperate divisions. Anyway, too early for the full tie-breaking run down, other than to say that a three way tie for the two wild card spots with two AFC South teams would put the Broncos in the playoffs.

Back to the more likely AFC West scenario. Here is where we stand, with likely finishes to the season by both teams:


Denver
Week 9 4-5
Week Date Game
W 11 19-Nov TEN @ DEN
L 12 25-Nov DEN @ CHI
W 13 2-Dec DEN @ OAK
W 14 9-Dec KC @ DEN
L 15 13-Dec DEN @ HOU
W 16 24-Dec DEN @ SD
W 17 30-Dec MIN @ DEN

Overall 9-7
Div 5-2
Common n/a
Conf n/a

San Diego
Week 9 5-4
Week Date Game
L 11 18-Nov SD @ JAC
W 12 25-Nov BAL @ SD
L 13 2-Dec SD @ KC
W 14 9-Dec SD @ TEN
W 15 16-Dec DET @ SD
L 16 24-Dec DEN @ SD
W 17 30-Dec SD @ OAK

Overall 9-7
Div 3-4
Common n/a
Conf n/a

In the above scenario, the fact that Denver beat KC in KC, and that it is likely that SD loses to KC in KC in December (most teams do), puts Denver in a position to have a better division record in most scenarios where Denver and SD finish with the same record. Obviously, having SD beat the Colts on a botched chip-shot field goal hurt Denver tremendously, but it is still highly likely that SD and Den finish at 9-7, but with Denver having a one or two game edge in the division record. This assumes that Denver beats SD at hom in Week 16, because if they lose, then SD wins any tiebreakers based on the head to head matchup. Because of that, I have not looked at the record in common games, because it will likely come down to SD winning on head to head, or Denver winning on division record, if they beat SD at home in week 16.

Back to the wildcard. If SD does beat Jax this weekend, then it makes it less likely that Denver wins the west, but if Denver and SD both win this weekend, it makes it more likely that Denver will be tied for the wild card spot(s).

If Denver wins, they will have the head-to-head edge over Ten and Buf, in a possible wild card tiebreaker, and currently holds a one game edge over Cleveland in the conference record (another important tiebreaker). Jax is the only team above Denver that would be in the wild card hunt (SD wouldn't be in the picture, as either Denver or SD wins the West, so they won't compete for the wild card spot) that Denver has no shot of winning a two team tiebreaker against, due to head to head record.

So, in summary, Denver is in a position to win the West with a 9-7 record if they beat SD at home, but if SD beats Jax and has a 10 or greater win season, then Denver could still grab a wild card spot via a tiebreaker.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

No playoffs please.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Now that my head is spinning. :D
I'll just hope that Denver wins the division and beats sd at home in week 16. That will at least shut the sd fans up and deflate their balloons a little.

Thanks for the run down.

EDIT:

Playoffs please.

EDIT: EDIT:

Followed by a Super Bowl win thank you.

[Tned]

No playoffs please.

Why, so once again Denver will be picking middle of the pack, 'just outside' the playoffs? We aren't going to be getting a high draft choice, so why not at the very least get Cutler and the youngsters some playoff experience.

They are currently sitting at 13th or so, with the worst of their schedule behind them. I don't see anyway this team picks in the top 10.

[TXBRONC]

Why, so once again Denver will be picking middle of the pack, 'just outside' the playoffs? We aren't going to be getting a high draft choice, so why not at the very least get Cutler and the youngsters some playoff experience.

They are currently sitting at 13th or so, with the worst of their schedule behind them. I don't see anyway this team picks in the top 10.

Exactly, with the toughest part of the schedule behind them what seems to be improvement in all three phases of the game the playoffs are not out of the question. Even with as banged up as the Broncos are they probably still have enough talent on the team to make the playoffs given what's left on the schedule.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Why, so once again Denver will be picking middle of the pack, 'just outside' the playoffs? We aren't going to be getting a high draft choice, so why not at the very least get Cutler and the youngsters some playoff experience.

They are currently sitting at 13th or so, with the worst of their schedule behind them. I don't see anyway this team picks in the top 10.

We're at #17 right now, and pending on how the other 3-6 and 4-5 teams do, we're still in that "race" for a high pick. It doesn't have to be a top ten pick, it can be somewhere in the top fifteen. That's good enough for me. I'd rather pick top fifteen than get laughed out of the playoffs. This team needs top talent at many positions. Cutler needs weapons, this defense needs some weapons. We need that.

If Denver lost to Kansas City, Houston, Minnesota and Chicago (teams who are 4-5 or 3-6) that's going to put them in an area to get a top pick.

There are eight teams in the AFC with a better record than us and the Chargers are a game ahead with the tie breaker. Unless we win this division, we're not getting a playoff spot. I honestly believe that Denver has a better chance at getting a top fifteen selection, than they do making the playoffs.

If San Diego can throttle us, and we can beat KC in KC, they can beat KC.

Any given Sunday, but I have a hard time believing we'll win the West.

If we don't win our division, we're not making the playoffs.

[silkamilkamonico]

I believe people that don't want Denver to make the playoffs are valueing a mid-high draft pick over the progress of Jay Cutler.

I understands what Dream is saying and although I don;t agree with it I can see where he's coming at.

At the same time there are others who want Denver to lose out to get as high draft pick as possible.

What could be more valuable for the organization than Cutler continuing to progress, along with the other young players like Marshall, Young, Scheffler, Thomas, Crowder, etc...?

If Denver sneeks into the playoffs, they probably would get blown out, but that one playoff game would be vital for the progress of a franchise QB.

Even with no playoffs, if Cutler is continuing to progress like we hope he still is going to win some games for Denver.

Denver will probably have more games like Detroit/SD, but they will also have more games like Pittsburgh.

Cnsidering the schedule is singificantly easier from here on out, I think Denver getting a pick no earlier than #15 is highly unlikely and not happening.

[Lonestar]

We're at #17 right now, and pending on how the other 3-6 and 4-5 teams do, we're still in that "race" for a high pick. It doesn't have to be a top ten pick, it can be somewhere in the top fifteen. That's good enough for me. I'd rather pick top fifteen than get laughed out of the playoffs. This team needs top talent at many positions. Cutler needs weapons, this defense needs some weapons. We need that.

If Denver lost to Kansas City, Houston, Minnesota and Chicago (teams who are 4-5 or 3-6) that's going to put them in an area to get a top pick.

There are eight teams in the AFC with a better record than us and the Chargers are a game ahead with the tie breaker. Unless we win this division, we're not getting a playoff spot. I honestly believe that Denver has a better chance at getting a top fifteen selection, than they do making the playoffs.

If San Diego can throttle us, and we can beat KC in KC, they can beat KC.

Any given Sunday, but I have a hard time believing we'll win the West.

If we don't win our division, we're not making the playoffs.


According to the NFL as we speak we are at 13 with the 4-5 record teams between #9 and #17

http://www.nfl.com/standings?category=league&season=2007-REG&split=Overall

Not to split hairs here but we still have to play the following teams below or the same as us in the standings, if everyone else remains the same as we do but we beat those other teams.. The chefs, Houston and bears will have better records than we do.. with the possibility of even OAK even winning a couple they are not supposed to..
We could even wind up as we speak at 10 to 15 at worst..

That is as you said a bunch better than getting our asses kicked in the playoffs..

[Lonestar]

I believe people that don't want Denver to make the playoffs are valueing a mid-high draft pick over the progress of Jay Cutler.

I understands what Dream is saying and although I don;t agree with it I can see where he's coming at.

At the same time there are others who want Denver to lose out to get as high draft pick as possible.

What could be more valuable for the organization than Cutler continuing to progress, along with the other young players like Marshall, Young, Scheffler, Thomas, Crowder, etc...?

If Denver sneeks into the playoffs, they probably would get blown out, but that one playoff game would be vital for the progress of a franchise QB.

Even with no playoffs, if Cutler is continuing to progress like we hope he still is going to win some games for Denver.

Denver will probably have more games like Detroit/SD, but they will also have more games like Pittsburgh.

Cnsidering the schedule is singificantly easier from here on out, I think Denver getting a pick no earlier than #15 is highly unlikely and not happening.

in no case are we saying we want to lose out at the expense of JAY..

We want to play all the rookies to find out who is and who is not going to be able to help us next year.. get them the experience and find out if they were good or bad choices.. Then during the draft and FA we are not guessing if these kids can play or if they need to be upgraded.

[silkamilkamonico]

That is as you said a bunch better than getting our asses kicked in the playoffs..

For myself, I would take that though, considering the outlook of the team is considerably different and we're hoping we found our franchise QB.

Peyton Manning got his azz kicked in the playoffs for a good few years, and look at him now, look at him now, look at him now.

[Lonestar]

For myself, I would take that though, considering the outlook of the team is considerably different and we're hoping we found our franchise QB.

Peyton Manning got his azz kicked in the playoffs for a good few years, and look at him now, look at him now, look at him now.

How can one game of ass kicking in the playoffs be good? For the experience? I'll pass if that is your thought process. I'd rather not get his ass kicked and hurt than win a couple more meaningless games this year.

Do what is right and get some decent picks for a change. When has this team ever picked under 10? .. and then again at 42, 74, 106 never we have been lucky to have 2 picks under 95 in the past..

[Requiem / The Dagda]

We're picking #17. Our SOS (opponents winning percentage) is higher than any 4-5 team.

[sneakers]

I want to win. Who cares about the early draft picks.

[BroncoBJ]

I agree Sneakers. I'd rather be one of the worst teams to make the playoffs then one of the best teams left out any day. I really dont care about what pick we get. I'd be happy with the 32nd pick. :lol: I'm sure most of you think winning the Superbowl sucks and would much rather pick in the top 10 or 15. If we miss out on the playoffs were not going to go 4-12. We would probably go 8-8 or 9-7 and end up picking 19th or so. Why not make the playoffs and pick 23rd or 25th. Maybe win a playoff game and pick 26th or 27th. Maybe get the the AFC Championship game and pick 29th or 30th. Hell why not get to the Superbowl and pick 31st? perhaps 32nd? :eek: I've never heard such crazyness about getting a high pick is better for this team.

I dont care about the "long" run. I care about right now. The 1st overrall selection could be just as great as Mr. Irrelevent. Its about right now. Were not going 4-12 so you mise well not even think about that. Our Opponents have a 63 combined Winning percentage so far out of the ones we have played.(which is tied for the hardest along with the Colts). Our upcoming Opponents Win percents is only 45 percent. If we can win 4 out of our first 9 games with the hardest SOS then we can and should win at least 6 out of our final 7 games which would put us at 10-6. There is no way we will go 4-12.
Thats just how I see things going.

I want this team to make the playoffs and get some experience. I dont want to know that my team is one of the worse 20 teams in the league. I want to think of us as the Best 12, 8, 4, 2, or even the best team in the league.

Winning games Beats high draft picks any day of the week.

I've never once rooted for Denver to lose in my life and I will continue that way.

Heres to an 11-5 season and a Superbowl win. :salute:

And good thread Tned. I'm glad to know some people actually enjoy when Denver wins.

[SR]

FWIW, we were picked to win the AFC West by ESPN on NFL Live. I watched it with my eyes and heard it with my ears.

I'd much rather make the playoffs with the possibility to win a game than get smoked the rest of the year, not make the playoffs, and get a high draft pick. For me, that's an easy choice to make.

[Tned]

I believe people that don't want Denver to make the playoffs are valueing a mid-high draft pick over the progress of Jay Cutler.

I understands what Dream is saying and although I don;t agree with it I can see where he's coming at.

At the same time there are others who want Denver to lose out to get as high draft pick as possible.

What could be more valuable for the organization than Cutler continuing to progress, along with the other young players like Marshall, Young, Scheffler, Thomas, Crowder, etc...?

If Denver sneeks into the playoffs, they probably would get blown out, but that one playoff game would be vital for the progress of a franchise QB.

Even with no playoffs, if Cutler is continuing to progress like we hope he still is going to win some games for Denver.

Denver will probably have more games like Detroit/SD, but they will also have more games like Pittsburgh.

Cnsidering the schedule is singificantly easier from here on out, I think Denver getting a pick no earlier than #15 is highly unlikely and not happening.

Jay needs to learn how to be a winning QB, now. Not how to be a sub .500 QB with loads of talent. It's time for him to start putting the team on his shoulders and winning the games the team isn't supposed to win. That is what great QBs do. They make the players around them better than they would be with a different QB, and they make up for deficiancies on defense, by scoring when they have the ball.

[SR]

To be honest, this year I would be happy with them just making the playoffs. We haven't missed the playoffs two years in a row in quite some time. It would be a shame to start now. I realize though that it's a very likely possibility that we don't make it, but with all of the adversity this team has faced this year I would be happy with 8-8.

[Nomad]

While I want to see the BRONCOS play as long as they can (I'm immune now to the beatings they get in the playoffs), I see them losing to Oak, SD, Minn and missing the playoffs. If they can muster a 3 game win streak then maybe it may raise an eyebrow or two, then this shows me they are clicking as a team and finding that will to win!

[Watchthemiddle]

FWIW, we were picked to win the AFC West by ESPN on NFL Live. I watched it with my eyes and heard it with my ears.

I'd much rather make the playoffs with the possibility to win a game than get smoked the rest of the year, not make the playoffs, and get a high draft pick. For me, that's an easy choice to make.

I agree. People say they don't want to see us get laughed at when or if we get blown out of the playoffs.

Well, whats more laughable....being a team that was picked by some to win the west and maybe go to the Super Bowl and not even make the playoffs, or....get in the playoffs and see what happens?

I am not one to get to caught up in the draft when it comes to the Broncos and Shanahan. He is so unpredictable...who is to say he would even keep a top 10 pick if we had one?

For all we know, he would trade down for multiple 2nd and 3rd rounders. :rolleyes:

[Watchthemiddle]

Another thing, if the team makes a run it means players are stepping up. I'd feel much more confident about this team if ended the season on the upswing... it'd mean we'd have less holes to fill. Sometimes you see a team going through a transition period (like Denver and their efense this year) finish the season strong and end up going 13-3 the next year (like the Falcons of '97 and '98).

Besides, I'd like to see less "fire everybody" threads on Broncos forums across the net. (Not a shot on anyone here. LDB made a rational post a while back on our GM situation).

ANother good point. No one likes ending their season on a down low. Look at the Titans last year. Ended their season as one of the hottest teams in the league. Didn't make the playoffs, but it has carried over to this year so far with a 6-3 record. You always want to end the season with momentum and something positive you can carry into the next season. The last thing you want to do as players and FANS is give up or give into a season for some draft pick that never pans out in the first place.

[Tned]

I agree. People say they don't want to see us get laughed at when or if we get blown out of the playoffs.

Well, whats more laughable....being a team that was picked by some to win the west and maybe go to the Super Bowl and not even make the playoffs, or....get in the playoffs and see what happens?

I am not one to get to caught up in the draft when it comes to the Broncos and Shanahan. He is so unpredictable...who is to say he would even keep a top 10 pick if we had one?

For all we know, he would trade down for multiple 2nd and 3rd rounders. :rolleyes:

I remember in '89, Denver fans were calling into KOA and saying they hoped the Broncos would miss the playoffs to avoid another SB embarrassment. Then, as the season went along and it was clear they were going to make the playoffs, people were saying they hoped they would get knocked out in the first round, in order to avoid another SB embarrassment. After they advanced, same thing.

While it is true, that the SB was another blowout, the worst of the three, I still could not understand why so many fans would rather avoid the playoffs, or SB, all together, for fear of a bad loss.

Me, I say, once you are in the playoffs, anything can happen. There have been plenty of SB winners that weren't the favorites when the playoffs started. Between "any given Sunday" and momentum, if you get a team that gets hot at the end of the year, sometimes they surprise people. I will give up hope when they are mathmatically elimated from the playoffs, or when they are knocked out of the playoffs.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

If we got a top pick and traded down that'd be absolutely wonderful. Shanahan needs to do that.

[Watchthemiddle]

If we got a top pick and traded down that'd be absolutely wonderful. Shanahan needs to do that.

So why not make the playoffs and get the same pick we would of traded down for?? :confused:

[Lonestar]

I agree. People say they don't want to see us get laughed at when or if we get blown out of the playoffs.

Well, whats more laughable....being a team that was picked by some to win the west and maybe go to the Super Bowl and not even make the playoffs, or....get in the playoffs and see what happens?

I am not one to get to caught up in the draft when it comes to the Broncos and Shanahan. He is so unpredictable...who is to say he would even keep a top 10 pick if we had one?

For all we know, he would trade down for multiple 2nd and 3rd rounders. :rolleyes:


but then it is an option we do not have as we speak.

Anyone can plainly see this team is not able to go to the super bowl it has no depth except perhaps at DE where we must have 18 by now.

Getting experience is playing weather you win or lose if your out there getting touches at game speed it will make Jay a better QB for the future.

How many games did he win in college? That in this context has the same merit as he has to win now in order to be good. That is all BS and we all know it. Marino did not win all the time and almost always got the snot beat out of them in the playoffs if they got that far. Yet he is HOF along with Jim Kelly a real loser in super bowls.. I do understand the desire to win. But doing so when they have a great shot at falling into a great series of draft choices that if you have not noticed this team desperately needs. Would be a HUGE mistake.

I'm not asking Mikey to tank the season, BUT I do not think he will have to work real hard at losing @ SAN, OAK, HOU and maybe even in CHI. None of the other games are lock either, no matter how you slice it. KC, MIN and TEN could be big loses also, if TEN and MIN get their RB's going and KC Croyle has a good game we could be in trouble.

That is how I see it as we speak. so 7-9 at best, is it really any worse than 4-12 both losing seasons and everyone that matters knows how many IR guys we have had this year. There is no shame in that..

[Requiem / The Dagda]

So why not make the playoffs and get the same pick we would of traded down for?? :confused:

If Denver was picking in the top ten, they'd get a heck of a lot more trade value in comparison to picking say, #22 overall and trading down.

It's possible with the flux of talent (juniors) coming into this draft, that if Denver traded out, they could literally make out like bandits.

I'd prefer for Denver to finish fairly high, get that top pick - trade down in an are where some 'blue-chip' prospects are still likely to be there, and gain another selection or two to help fill other needs.

Two first day picks isn't going to save this team. I'm thrilled about rounds four and five, but honestly.

I think Denver's actually in a decent position this year. With only rounds one and two being on Friday night, it'll give them extra time to make trades, plan out their board and be ready to go by Saturday morning when round three starts. Round three as a day two selection. That'll take some gettin' used to.

[topscribe]

Jay needs to learn how to be a winning QB, now. Not how to be a sub .500 QB with loads of talent. It's time for him to start putting the team on his shoulders and winning the games the team isn't supposed to win. That is what great QBs do. They make the players around them better than they would be with a different QB, and they make up for deficiancies on defense, by scoring when they have the ball.

Well, I don't know that it is "time" yet. Cutler has played all of 14 games in
the NFL, for pity's sake. In those 14 games, he has outshined several past
and present illuminaries when comparing their first 14 games to his.

Let's take just one, for instance, the contemporary QB, whom many consider
the best in the game today: Peyton Manning. In his first 14 games, he went
3-11. In his first year, Manning amassed an astounding 71.2 QB rating.
Compare that to Jay's 6-8 record, while compiling an 84.8 QB rating so far
this year. Meanwhile, Jay already has several late-game comeback drives to
his credit.

I believe Jay has done a great job at his position, while opposing defenses
have been doing everything they can to keep him from doing it.

I don't care how you stack it: Even great QBs need help.

-----

[Tned]

I don't care how you stack it: Even great QBs need help.

-----

Yep, which is why Manning did so horribly early on. Didn't the team win 2 or 3 games the year before they drafted Manning?

Yes, this team has been dessimated with injuries, and has some major question marks on the line, but it is still a far more established team both in terms of skill players, coaching staff and system than the Colts were when Manning came in.

We all watched the news reports about the three QBs (Young, Cutler and Leinart). They would talk about which QB would be successful first, and most said Cutler, not because of his skill, but because he was going to the best situation by far, compared to Tenn and AZ. Clearly, some things have changed, mostly due to injury, but IMO you simply can't compare the situation in Indy when Manning went there and the situation in Denver when Cutler came here.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Well, I don't know that it is "time" yet. Cutler has played all of 14 games in
the NFL, for pity's sake. In those 14 games, he has outshined several past
and present illuminaries when comparing their first 14 games to his.

Let's take just one, for instance, the contemporary QB, whom many consider
the best in the game to day: Peyton Manning. In his first 14 games, he went
3-11. In his first year, Manning amassed an astounding 71.2 QB rating.
Compare that to Jay's 6-8 record, while compiling an 84.8 QB rating so far
this year. Meanwhile, Jay already has several late-game comeback drives to
his credit.

I believe Jay has done a great job at his position, while opposing defenses
have been doing everything they can to keep him from doing it.

I don't care how you stack it: Even great QBs need help.

-----

Outstanding post Top. :salute:

One of the things that Denver hasn't ever had a chance to do (besides trading up and landing Cutler, which is probably the smartest move we ever did) is grab an elite talent in the draft. Cutler was a grade "A" talent, and where he wasn't as hyped up as Young and Leinart - guys like Steve Young, Ron Jaworski, etc. were all over him - guys who had played QB - and knew what they were talking about.

So far, Cutler has proven he's the better quarterback - but he needs help on the team to ensure that he's a winner.

Denver has some great young talent on the team, but Cutler could use a lot more. Denver is rarely, if ever (unless they sacrifice picks, which they have done a lot of over the past five years) in a position to draft some top talent. Heck, they traded out of the first-round in 2005 entirely because they were ticked off at their options.

I believe I read that Denver is the only team since 2000 to not have a losing record, and I believe it's been since we drafted Mike Croel all those years ago that we had a top ten pick. I think Denver's highest original selection was when we went 6-10 - and I still think that only got us as high as #15 that year.

There's plenty enough time for Cutler to get experience. He hasn't even played a full season yet, and what kind of experience do you want him to get? Experience against a team like Indianapolis or New England who could down us by 50 with ease with their respective home field advantage?

That's not experience, that's a massacre - and that's what Denver doesn't need.

Denver's in a state of limbo right now. There are a lot of things to look forward to, there are a lot of things to get over with too.

A lot of younger players are stepping up, a lot of the older players are fading away. Honestly, I'm surprised to be 4-5 at this point in time with all the injuries (Lynch, Walker, everyone on IR, etc.) we've had to this team. Coaches always say the great teams find a way to win - but let's face it. We are the NFL's infirmary. I'm not sure if there's a team who had more starters from last year (at some point in time) on IR or missing significant playing time due to injury.

How would have our season gone with a healthy Ekuban playing down base end for the team? How would our line be doing with leaders like Nalen and Hamilton up front? How would Jay be doing with Javon if his knee didn't act up? You can tell that John's absence in the secondary hurts the team on multiple arenas. I'd consider what this young group of players to have done so far a success given the odds and what are stacked against them.

I'd say 7-9 or 8-8 would be a hell of an achievement for this squad.

I don't want this team to give up, I'll never root for them to lose. I am open and accepting the fact that this might be a year (much like WTM said - seems to be he was right) and we'll start putting up the building bricks and work this thing over from scratch, with a few nice sprinkles (Cutler, Marshall, Dumervil, etc.) already in the mix and hopefully have a hell of a "cake" for next year.

Denver's been consistently good ever since Shanahan took over all those years ago. Denver's had what, one losing season. . . maybe two? That's phenomenal. We're blessed as fans to always root for a good team. As much as Shanahan seems to get grief around the boards, his pride has really rubbed off on the fan base too.

I just want some top tier talent to add into the mix, and you rarely get that chance always being in the 20's.

[TXBRONC]

Yep, which is why Manning did so horribly early on. Didn't the team win 2 or 3 games the year before they drafted Manning?

Yes, this team has been dessimated with injuries, and has some major question marks on the line, but it is still a far more established team both in terms of skill players, coaching staff and system than the Colts were when Manning came in.

We all watched the news reports about the three QBs (Young, Cutler and Leinart). They would talk about which QB would be successful first, and most said Cutler, not because of his skill, but because he was going to the best situation by far, compared to Tenn and AZ. Clearly, some things have changed, mostly due to injury, but IMO you simply can't compare the situation in Indy when Manning went there and the situation in Denver when Cutler came here.

It had to be something like that because Peyton was the overall number one pick in the draft.

[silkamilkamonico]

With the way Shanahan drafts, the higher the pick doesn't make it better.

And considering Denver doesn't have a full load of picks this year, the smartest thing Shanahan could do is trade out of the first round for as many mid round picks as possible.

[TXBRONC]

With the way Shanahan drafts, the higher the pick doesn't make it better.

And considering Denver doesn't have a full load of picks this year, the smartest thing Shanahan could do is trade out of the first round for as many mid round picks as possible.


Quantity doesn't necessarily mean He can find quality.

[Lonestar]

With the way Shanahan drafts, the higher the pick doesn't make it better.

And considering Denver doesn't have a full load of picks this year, the smartest thing Shanahan could do is trade out of the first round for as many mid round picks as possible.

If we can continue on drafting like we have the past two years I have no problem with those choices coming up soon as being less than the crap shoot mikey had in his earlier years.. Why the turn around? I do not know but hopefully it was not just the law of averages catching up. Hopefully it was actually someone who knew what they were doing, was whispering in Mikeys ear before he made the call.

[Lonestar]

It had to be something like that because Peyton was the overall number one pick in the draft.



3-13 for the year Payton Manning QB

SAN at 4-12 ryan leaf high school head coach?

PHX 4-12 andre wadsworth DE

OAK 4-12 Charles woodson Cb

Bears 4-12 Curtis Enis RB

[Broncos Mtnman]

Great post tned.

Let me say this with ZERO uncertainty.....


SCREW THE DRAFT!!


I want to win, even if we miss the playoffs. I ALWAYS want the Broncos to win. I could care less where we draft next year.

:coffee:

[Medford Bronco]

Great post tned.

Let me say this with ZERO uncertainty.....


SCREW THE DRAFT!!


I want to win, even if we miss the playoffs. I ALWAYS want the Broncos to win. I could care less where we draft next year.

:coffee:

we could always end up with a bust anyways
like Dan Wilkinson, Tony Mandarich, one of the bad Dets Wrs that got cut (Charles Rogers?) etc.

I want to win but still am hesitant on this years team.

Feel better but still unsure. just being honest.

I hope we beat Tenn and predicted so, but would
not be shocked to lose to a very good team

that has a defense... Young is their weakness
the rest is very good all around and a very
good tough coach as well

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Great post tned.

Let me say this with ZERO uncertainty.....


SCREW THE DRAFT!!


I want to win, even if we miss the playoffs. I ALWAYS want the Broncos to win. I could care less where we draft next year.

:coffee:

I want to win too, but I'd love the high pick. Screw the draft?

I guess screw Jay Cutler then.

[Broncos Mtnman]

I want to win too, but I'd love the high pick. Screw the draft?

I guess screw Jay Cutler then.

Don't take what I said out of context.

As I said at the end of my post. I don't care where we draft. I don't care.

In fact, you prove my point. We weren't originally at #11 when we picked up Cutler. We moved up to that spot.

The draft NEVER works out as the "experts" predict. Otherwise, Bush would be in Houston today and Cutler would be wearing Silver and Black.

THIS season is still alive and my team stands a chance to win the division. If that screws up some draft "guru's" forcasting, I could care less.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I don't care where we draft. I don't care.

In fact, you prove my point. We weren't originally at #11 when we picked up Cutler. We moved up to that spot.

From my perspective, it'd be nice to land a real talent like Cutler and not have to give up value in doing so. It'd be nice.

[Broncos Mtnman]

From my perspective, it'd be nice to land a real talent like Cutler and not have to give up value in doing so. It'd be nice.

Well, as you stated, that's YOUR perspective.

I want to win and I don't care where some "top draft pick" goes.

[Tned]

I want to win too, but I'd love the high pick. Screw the draft?

I guess screw Jay Cutler then.

No thanks, he's not my type.

Mtn didn't say nothing good, including Cutler, came out of the draft, but while you admitedly get more pleasure out of the draft than the season, for most of us, we enjoy the actual football. Watching the Broncos win. Do I get frustrated with 9-7 or 10-6 seasons and one and out in the playoffs? Yes, but I would take 10 9-7 seasons, over having in that same 10 year span, two 14 win seasons, one super bowl, two 12 win seasons, two 9 win seasons, two 6 win seasons, and two 4 win seasons and two top five picks.

I would rather have the Broncos be over .500 every season with a shot at the playoffs, every year, rather than have a handful of great seasons every decade, and half the seaons with no legitimate shot at the playoffs.

What makes the Broncos such a great organization is that they are competitive almost every year. A feat that almost no other team in football can say over the last 23 years or so.

[TXBRONC]

No thanks, he's not my type.

Mtn didn't say nothing good, including Cutler, came out of the draft, but while you admittedly get more pleasure out of the draft than the season, for most of us, we enjoy the actual football. Watching the Broncos win. Do I get frustrated with 9-7 or 10-6 seasons and one and out in the playoffs? Yes, but I would take 10 9-7 seasons, over having in that same 10 year span, two 14 win seasons, one super bowl, two 12 win seasons, two 9 win seasons, two 6 win seasons, and two 4 win seasons and two top five picks.

I would rather have the Broncos be over .500 every season with a shot at the playoffs, every year, rather than have a handful of great seasons every decade, and half the seasons with no legitimate shot at the playoffs.

What makes the Broncos such a great organization is that they are competitive almost every year. A feat that almost no other team in football can say over the last 23 years or so.

Same here. I would rather Denver win be in playoff contention than suffer through a dreadful season.

[Tned]

Same here. I would rather Denver win be in playoff contention than suffer through a dreadful season.

Last year, or the year before, I read some posters talking about how Denver should learn from SF, and use their approach to building a team. :confused: I thought, their approach? Be dominant for a while and then be one of the worst teams in the league where they are sub .500 for 6 years out of an 8 year stretch? Yes, they got a lot of top 10 picks, but at what cost?

[lex]

No thanks, he's not my type.

Mtn didn't say nothing good, including Cutler, came out of the draft, but while you admitedly get more pleasure out of the draft than the season, for most of us, we enjoy the actual football. Watching the Broncos win. Do I get frustrated with 9-7 or 10-6 seasons and one and out in the playoffs? Yes, but I would take 10 9-7 seasons, over having in that same 10 year span, two 14 win seasons, one super bowl, two 12 win seasons, two 9 win seasons, two 6 win seasons, and two 4 win seasons and two top five picks.

I would rather have the Broncos be over .500 every season with a shot at the playoffs, every year, rather than have a handful of great seasons every decade, and half the seaons with no legitimate shot at the playoffs.

What makes the Broncos such a great organization is that they are competitive almost every year. A feat that almost no other team in football can say over the last 23 years or so.

Youre insane. The Super Bowl win blows the 10 9-7 season out of the water...and then you add the 2 14 win and 12 win seasons and its a no brainer. Our Super Bowl appearances and wins are a better reflection of our organization than finishing 9-7 every year. Ultimately you win with good players. If having one down year can be turned into a positive, Im willing to take it on the chin one year if it means picking in the top 7. If that translates into winning a SB, Ill take that every time over 9-7 every year.

[TXBRONC]

Last year, or the year before, I read some posters talking about how Denver should learn from SF, and use their approach to building a team. :confused: I thought, their approach? Be dominant for a while and then be one of the worst teams in the league where they are sub .500 for 6 years out of an 8 year stretch? Yes, they got a lot of top 10 picks, but at what cost?

The Raiders have been drafting in the top end of the draft for what the last five years, it hasn't helped all that much.

[lex]

The Raiders have been drafting in the top end of the draft for what the last five years, it hasn't helped all that much.

What about the Chargers?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Last year, or the year before, I read some posters talking about how Denver should learn from SF, and use their approach to building a team. :confused: I thought, their approach? Be dominant for a while and then be one of the worst teams in the league where they are sub .500 for 6 years out of an 8 year stretch? Yes, they got a lot of top 10 picks, but at what cost?

Teams like Oakland, San Francisco and Arizona remain bad - even though drafting so high because of poor coaching and bad ownership. They draft quality players, or players that should do well - but there's a plethora of reasons why they don't succeed. Two of what I mentioned are probably the biggest factors. On the other hand, there are teams like New England, San Diego and Indianapolis who were bad for a while and due to good coaching and good ownership - ended up going to the top shortly after a few good drafts.

Denver has the potential with this Day 2, and perhaps two high first day selections (pending finish) to really set their team up long-term with youth.

It's working out for teams like Green Bay as well, who after a few poor years - are back on the rise. It takes an flux of young talent to be able to do well long-term, and Denver has a fair amount of it, but they could have better. The fact that there are less than 15 draft choices that Mike has had here on his roster over the past decade is RIDICULOUS.

A high choice would benefit this team in many ways. I'd love to see us win, but I also salivate at the possibility of Denver finally grabbing some top tier talent. We did in Cutler, and so far that's turned out well.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

No thanks, he's not my type.

Mtn didn't say nothing good, including Cutler, came out of the draft, but while you admitedly get more pleasure out of the draft than the season, for most of us, we enjoy the actual football. Watching the Broncos win. Do I get frustrated with 9-7 or 10-6 seasons and one and out in the playoffs? Yes, but I would take 10 9-7 seasons, over having in that same 10 year span, two 14 win seasons, one super bowl, two 12 win seasons, two 9 win seasons, two 6 win seasons, and two 4 win seasons and two top five picks.

I would rather have the Broncos be over .500 every season with a shot at the playoffs, every year, rather than have a handful of great seasons every decade, and half the seaons with no legitimate shot at the playoffs.

What makes the Broncos such a great organization is that they are competitive almost every year. A feat that almost no other team in football can say over the last 23 years or so.

Denver having a "bad" season would not take anything away from being a competitive team. Denver's had an extremely long run as a top team in the league. They are the STANDARD for excellence in the NFL. We're spoiled fans, and at times (to me) there are disadvantages to it. Like I said before the season began, Denver needs a TOUGH season to put some things in perspective for many fans - and so far I think this season has done that.

I'm always rooting for us to win. I'll be decked out in Orange and Blue from head to toes this Monday night while I grill out for all the residents in here and throw my Monday Night Football Broncos Bash. I'll never root for us to lose, I'll never say "throw in the towel" - but I'm saying a top ten pick would go a long ways for this team, and be fantastic.

We're still in the race for the AFC West, and that's the ONLY race we're in for the playoffs. If we don't get this title, we're not going anywhere.

Teams (most) have a Super Bowl or bust mentality. Shanahan is on record saying that anything less than a Lombardi trophy is a failure. I'd jump on the side of the fence that would rather see us (at this point in time) get a nice selection to help set up for a few nice runs rather than always being in mediocre positions, playing with mediocre teams like we have been outside the AFCCG year when Plummer was at the helm.

There's absolutely no denying that the prospect of a top ten selection or top fifteen would help this team. It'd go a long way in the development of a franchise who has literally started over with a youth movement on the run. I want that youth movement to continue so this team can prosper perhaps next year, or in the near future.

I'm usually more optimistic than this, but I just don't see this Broncos team (barring a complete turn around, and I'm encourage by the performance against the Chiefs) being competitive enough to compete in the playoffs. I'd also be more optimistic if we won the division outright (AKA - kick ass in the next few games) rather than win it because the Chargers and Chiefs flopped. That's football though.

I love watching the games too, but yeah. April makes me happy.

[BroncoBJ]

:lol: @ Tnedator saying Jay isn't his type.

And how come it seems more posters on this site want to win then the Broncos Country site? More people over there are praying for a 4-12 season and hoping every team at 4-5 and worse right now starts winning so we can be 4-12 and draft a bust with the first overrall pick. :lol

The year after we went to the AFC Championship game we ended up drafting Jay, Sheff, Bmarsh, and Dumervile.

4 Players that most football fans in general know something about.
It was a pretty impressive draft and we still managed to trade up and get good pick(s).

Maybe it could be like the Steeler class from 70 something where they had 4 players that all made the HOF.

I'd taking a 1-15 season over a 0-16 season any day of the week. :rockon:

I dont care about what draft pick we get. I just want to win.

Bragging about getting a high pick year in and year out is not something to be proud of.

April makes me happy when April comes around.
I dont even care about the draft until our season is done. Meaning eliminated from the playoffs or eliminated from even making it there. Then I start to think about who i want.

Right now I just want to worry about the 2007 Denver Broncos and see what happens.

Wouldn't it be nice to end up winning the SB as unlikely as that seems and still manage to get a top 15 pick. I say we trade with a team next year that we know will suck so we can get a good pick. Just like the Pats trading with the 49ers.
They will probably win it all and get a top 5 pick. Thats the best of both worlds.

But whatever happens happens.
Right now its November.

5 months away until the best day of the year. :lol:

[Day1BroncoFan]

For all I know I may not even be hear next year. Give me the wins this year. Let the draft fall where it may.

[lex]

:lol: @ Tnedator saying Jay isn't his type.

And how come it seems more posters on this site want to win then the Broncos Country site? More people over there are praying for a 4-12 season and hoping every team at 4-5 and worse right now starts winning so we can be 4-12 and draft a bust with the first overrall pick. :lol

The year after we went to the AFC Championship game we ended up drafting Jay, Sheff, Bmarsh, and Dumervile.

4 Players that most football fans in general know something about.
It was a pretty impressive draft and we still managed to trade up and get good pick(s).

Maybe it could be like the Steeler class from 70 something where they had 4 players that all made the HOF.

I'd taking a 1-15 season over a 0-16 season any day of the week. :rockon:

I dont care about what draft pick we get. I just want to win.

Bragging about getting a high pick year in and year out is not something to be proud of.

April makes me happy when April comes around.
I dont even care about the draft until our season is done. Meaning eliminated from the playoffs or eliminated from even making it there. Then I start to think about who i want.

Right now I just want to worry about the 2007 Denver Broncos and see what happens.

Wouldn't it be nice to end up winning the SB as unlikely as that seems and still manage to get a top 15 pick. I say we trade with a team next year that we know will suck so we can get a good pick. Just like the Pats trading with the 49ers.
They will probably win it all and get a top 5 pick. Thats the best of both worlds.

But whatever happens happens.
Right now its November.

5 months away until the best day of the year. :lol:

While people might be glad about having a high pick, I dont think theyll brag about it.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

The year after we went to the AFC Championship game we ended up drafting Jay, Sheff, Bmarsh, and Dumervile.

4 Players that most football fans in general know something about.
It was a pretty impressive draft and we still managed to trade up and get good pick(s).

Denver traded up to get Jay, and put themselves in a position to have a great fourth round by making numerous trades that netted them extra selections. Denver was aggressive and it played off.

I want to see more of that aggressiveness.


I dont care about what draft pick we get. I just want to win.

Even if that pick can *ensure* us a franchise player to help this team win in the future?


Bragging about getting a high pick year in and year out is not something to be proud of.

Believe me, no team brags about it. Why brag about sucking? There are times where having a pick that's high is nice though, and this class would be great to have one in.


April makes me happy when April comes around.
I dont even care about the draft until our season is done. Meaning eliminated from the playoffs or eliminated from even making it there. Then I start to think about who i want.

We're totally different then. :P :laugh: I've been getting read for the 2008 draft since the 2007 draft was OTC.


Right now I just want to worry about the 2007 Denver Broncos and see what happens.

I am excited about the rest of the season too, I just happen to be excited about April a **** ton.


Wouldn't it be nice to end up winning the SB as unlikely as that seems and still manage to get a top 15 pick. I say we trade with a team next year that we know will suck so we can get a good pick. Just like the Pats trading with the 49ers.
They will probably win it all and get a top 5 pick. Thats the best of both worlds.

The 49ers were absolutely, ridiculously retarded. If Denver could pull that job on some team, that'd be hot.


But whatever happens happens.
Right now its November.

5 months away until the best day of the year. :lol:

Five months ain't that long. If tickets to ******* Mobile weren't 500 bucks round trip, I would be going to the Senior Bowl. I was hoping to have a shot to get the goods. I'll have to wait.

[Tned]

Youre insane. The Super Bowl win blows the 10 9-7 season out of the water...and then you add the 2 14 win and 12 win seasons and its a no brainer. Our Super Bowl appearances and wins are a better reflection of our organization than finishing 9-7 every year. Ultimately you win with good players. If having one down year can be turned into a positive, Im willing to take it on the chin one year if it means picking in the top 7. If that translates into winning a SB, Ill take that every time over 9-7 every year.

As much as I loved the two SB wins, I have enjoyed the 20+ years of watching the Broncos, and almost always being competitive, more than those two SB wins. I like the fact that while my friends that are Cowboys, Saints and Bears fans have quite often gone into the season thinking that if they had 6 wins it was going to be a good year, while I knew that once again the Broncos would be in contention to go into the playoffs and possibly beyond.

So, call me insane, call me anything you like, but the fact remains that I like the fact the Broncos have been a perrenial winner and I look forward every year to them winning more than they lose; them giving me hope of the playoffs and beyond, rather than simply wondering if it will be a top 5 pick, or only a top 10 pick. I will take being able to have the 'hope' of the SB EVERY year, over four or five years of being one of the worst teams in the league, and THEN 'hoping' the team will rise from the ashes for a few years of dominance, only to repeat the cycle again, a few years later.

[BroncoBJ]

While people might be glad about having a high pick, I dont think theyll brag about it.

I dont know. I wouldn't put it past Dream.
He seems all giddy just thinking about the Chances. :lol:

Some people are different. :elefant:

[Tned]

The Raiders have been drafting in the top end of the draft for what the last five years, it hasn't helped all that much.

Exactly. How about Arizonia? Chicago? San Francisco? The pitiful Browns? Bengals? For every New England rise-from-the-ashes story, there are five or six or eight Cleveland Browns or Oakland Raiders out there.

Not to pick on Cleveland Rocks (ok, a little), but wouldn't you rather be complaining about an AFCCG blowout, or a one and out in the playoffs, rather than arguing how the sports writers have it wrong when they list your team 32 in the power rankings????

Yes, playover turnover and injuries (not just this year, but Wilson at the end of last year) knocked this team for a loop, but once again we were ranked as one of the top 5-10 teams in the power rankings coming into this season. Sure beats being in the bottom third year after year.

[BroncoBJ]

Denver traded up to get Jay, and put themselves in a position to have a great fourth round by making numerous trades that netted them extra selections. Denver was aggressive and it played off.

I want to see more of that aggressiveness.


Even if that pick can *ensure* us a franchise player to help this team win in the future?



Believe me, no team brags about it. Why brag about sucking? There are times where having a pick that's high is nice though, and this class would be great to have one in.



We're totally different then. :P :laugh: I've been getting read for the 2008 draft since the 2007 draft was OTC.



I am excited about the rest of the season too, I just happen to be excited about April a **** ton.



The 49ers were absolutely, ridiculously retarded. If Denver could pull that job on some team, that'd be hot.



Five months ain't that long. If tickets to ******* Mobile weren't 500 bucks round trip, I would be going to the Senior Bowl. I was hoping to have a shot to get the goods. I'll have to wait.


:lol: @ that.
Damn did you have to quote me so many times?

I want to see them be aggressive as well but I dont want us to go 4-12.

We have a Franchise QB. I dont want to get a top pick each year and get a Franchise player for all 11 posistions on offense. :lol:


I do get excited for the upcoming NFL Draft in April actually. I'm kind of wierd. After the NFL Draft is over I usually say that I cant wait til next years draft. I get excited from February til about June or so about draft then after that I start thinking about the season.

And when we lose a game I get pissed and say I cant wait for the draft. But I dont watch the Broncos play and daydream about college players throughout games.

And 5 months will go by fast.
This whole year has already gone by fast.

I cant beleive its almost 2008.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Exactly. How about Arizonia? Chicago? San Francisco? The pitiful Browns? Bengals? For every New England rise-from-the-ashes story, there are five or six or eight Cleveland Browns or Oakland Raiders out there.

Not to pick on Cleveland Rocks (ok, a little), but wouldn't you rather be complaining about an AFCCG blowout, or a one and out in the playoffs, rather than arguing how the sports writers have it wrong when they list your team 32 in the power rankings????

Yes, playover turnover and injuries (not just this year, but Wilson at the end of last year) knocked this team for a loop, but once again we were ranked as one of the top 5-10 teams in the power rankings coming into this season. Sure beats being in the bottom third year after year.

That's because those teams have poor ownership and coaching. That's why they continue to suck. Hell, look at the Browns. Things are starting to finally come around. Took a while, but still. Also, this wouldn't be a "year, after year" deal when discussing the Broncos.

[Tned]

That's because those teams have poor ownership and coaching. That's why they continue to suck. Hell, look at the Browns. Things are starting to finally come around. Took a while, but still. Also, this wouldn't be a "year, after year" deal when discussing the Broncos.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Denver has been one of the top teams in the league for 20 years because of a certain approach, especially during the Shanny era, so you cannot say with certainty that if a team changes that approach, that they will have the same success.

No, I am not saying that if due to injuries, QB learning curve, etc., that if we have one horrible year and draft high that our 'philosiphy' would change, but what I am saying is that if Shanny and company changed their philosiphy, as many have suggested the last few years, and stopped going after the 'aging veterans' that might help this year, taking shots at players like Moss, Thomas and Clarrett, when the other GMs and talking heads said Shanny overreached, then we are nire likely to become like the Cardinals or Browns, then the Patriots.

Regardless, all of that is way off target. My point was that I would take winning seasons EVERY year, over a few horrendous seasons to get top 10 and top 5 draft picks in the HOPE that the team 'might' become dominant.

[lex]

Exactly. How about Arizonia? Chicago? San Francisco? The pitiful Browns? Bengals? For every New England rise-from-the-ashes story, there are five or six or eight Cleveland Browns or Oakland Raiders out there.

Not to pick on Cleveland Rocks (ok, a little), but wouldn't you rather be complaining about an AFCCG blowout, or a one and out in the playoffs, rather than arguing how the sports writers have it wrong when they list your team 32 in the power rankings????

Yes, playover turnover and injuries (not just this year, but Wilson at the end of last year) knocked this team for a loop, but once again we were ranked as one of the top 5-10 teams in the power rankings coming into this season. Sure beats being in the bottom third year after year.

We have been there in spite of having several years of bad drafts. Were a little down now with injuries and age but we also have some young players cutting their teeth. If weve been up there in spite of bad drafts, I like our chances even more with in infusion of young talent. Im more for the Super Bowls than the 9-7 seasons.

[Tned]

We have been there in spite of having several years of bad drafts. Were a little down now with injuries and age but we also have some young players cutting their teeth. If weve been up there in spite of bad drafts, I like our chances even more with in infusion of young talent. Im more for the Super Bowls than the 9-7 seasons.

I'm guessing that you are a younger fan, and haven't had to endure too many 4 and 5 win seasons. They sound good, but they really suck in reality. This season is a piece of cake compared to the really bad ones.

[lex]

I'm guessing that you are a younger fan, and haven't had to endure too many 4 and 5 win seasons. They sound good, but they really suck in reality. This season is a piece of cake compared to the really bad ones.

7-9 isnt so special either.

[Tned]

7-9 isnt so special either.

Didn't say it was, I was just wondering how many 4 and 5 win seasons you have suffered through? As I said, I am guessing not many. I cherish every winning season, because in the NFL they are actually pretty rare. Each to their own. Some people like country, some rock. Some like losing and getting high draft picks, some like winning seasons every year. Doesn't mean either of us is wrong, we just look at things differently.

[BroncoBJ]

I was only in 4th and 5th grade during the SB wins so I wasn't into it. The next year is when I actually started watching football. We went 6-10. Then I beleive we had an 8-8 season or a 7-9 season shortly after? Or both. I cant remember. I always remember starting off good and then sucking though.

I guess I'm fortunate that I havn't been through all the tough times.
But this is the toughest moments for me. When I'm really into it and we arn't as good as I had hoped.

Sometimes the more you lose and the more you suck the better it will feel when you win.

And I would rather go to the SB 4 times in a row(like Buffalo) and lose all 4 then to have never been to a SB in my life.

Plus I really want our guys to get some kind of expierence.

Were better then a top 10 team come draft day.

[lex]

Didn't say it was, I was just wondering how many 4 and 5 win seasons you have suffered through? As I said, I am guessing not many. I cherish every winning season, because in the NFL they are actually pretty rare. Each to their own. Some people like country, some rock. Some like losing and getting high draft picks, some like winning seasons every year. Doesn't mean either of us is wrong, we just look at things differently.

I like to win also but 7-9, 8-8 and even 9-7 are kind of the same. Those are like nothing years. Non-contention and no high draft pick.

[Tned]

I like to win also but 7-9, 8-8 and even 9-7 are kind of the same. Those are like nothing years. Non-contention and no high draft pick.

I agree, that those middle years aren't overly rewarding, but they are still much better than 3 and 4 win seasons.

[Lonestar]

Same here. I would rather Denver win be in playoff contention than suffer through a dreadful season.

The problem with this is it is already a dreadful season..

I am not just referring to your post but a few others and did not click on them all.

Look I have sat through more losing seasons that some on this forum have been alive.

I do not like to lose I like to see good football games win or lose rather win than lose but a good hard fought game that you flat get beat in is OK. As long as we do not stumble through to a win.

This as we speak is not a good football team with the amount of IR and starters out because of injury it is not bad to lose. Pay their best and lose to a team that has not been decimated is OK folks it really is.

Mtntman you know there is NO way this team does anything against either INDY or NE at their house. It is not in the cards this year so next best thing is to get the kids some playing time hope they do not get their heads torn off and get some upgraded player in the draft.

Come back next year and kick some ass.

[lex]

I agree, that those middle years aren't overly rewarding, but they are still much better than 3 and 4 win seasons.

I disagree. If you lose with young talent, its a lot more bearable. I actually look forward to the games even knowing theres a distinct possibility we will lose. I want to see the young guys play. The more, the better. If that means more losses, its still better. Id rather go 4-12 playing a core of young players than go 7-9 watching guys like John Engleburger play DE. Id rather go 4-12 with Crowder. In those cases I feel better about 4-12 than 7-9.

[Broncos Mtnman]

The problem with this is it is already a dreadful season..

I am not just referring to your post but a few others and did not click on them all.

Look I have sat through more losing seasons that some on this forum have been alive.

I do not like to lose I like to see good football games win or lose rather win than lose but a good hard fought game that you flat get beat in is OK. As long as we do not stumble through to a win.

This as we speak is not a good football team with the amount of IR and starters out because of injury it is not bad to lose. Pay their best and lose to a team that has not been decimated is OK folks it really is.

Mtntman you know there is NO way this team does anything against either INDY or NE at their house. It is not in the cards this year so next best thing is to get the kids some playing time hope they do not get their heads torn off and get some upgraded player in the draft.

Come back next year and kick some ass.

Never say never! Never say never! - Shannon Sharpe

:beer:

[Lonestar]

Last year, or the year before, I read some posters talking about how Denver should learn from SF, and use their approach to building a team. :confused: I thought, their approach? Be dominant for a while and then be one of the worst teams in the league where they are sub .500 for 6 years out of an 8 year stretch? Yes, they got a lot of top 10 picks, but at what cost?

good premise but mikeys drafting in 1996 through 2004-5 pretty much bottomed out the talent on this team. They got a few OLINE players and a few LBs over that 100 or so choices nothing that the team is really built on.

If we have a couple of really good drafts and not over pay in the FA market we have a decent base over the last two drafts to make some hay for years to come.

Remember that SFO, SAN, IND and NE really sucked for a Long time and only turned around with new coaches GM's that knew what they are doing and decent players via the draft.

We already have a decent base and a pretty good coach and a great owner something the scrub teams did not start with.

[Lonestar]

The Raiders have been drafting in the top end of the draft for what the last five years, it hasn't helped all that much.

again it is about ownership and good coaching. Plus they have not always chosen well for various reasons.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Drafting is what you do in races to win not football. Lets win this year then we can come back and win next year too.

[lex]

Drafting is what you do in races to win not football. Lets win this year then we can come back and win next year too.

What are you talking about?

[Day1BroncoFan]

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about winning. Let the draft fall where it may.

I want the Broncos to win every game.

[lex]

Drafting is what you do in races to win not football. Lets win this year then we can come back and win next year too.


I'm talking about winning. Let the draft fall where it may.

I want the Broncos to win every game.

I was asking about the part where you dont draft to win in football.

[Tned]

I was asking about the part where you dont draft to win in football.

I'm guessing he was:

One, making a joke.

Two, saying that during the seasons, you don't worry about the draft, you worry about winning. When the season is over, and you are focusing on the next season (and beyond) then, and only then, do you worry about the draft.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

:lol: @ that.
Damn did you have to quote me so many times?

I want to see them be aggressive as well but I dont want us to go 4-12. I'd rather Rape teams on draft day then to get raped on the playing field. IMO

We have a Franchise QB. I dont want to get a top pick each year and get a Franchise player for all 11 posistions on offense. :lol:


I do get excited for the upcoming NFL Draft in April actually. I'm kind of wierd. After the NFL Draft is over I usually say that I cant wait til next years draft. I get excited from February til about June or so about draft then after that I start thinking about the season.

And when we lose a game I get pissed and say I cant wait for the draft. But I dont watch the Broncos play and daydream about college players throughout games.

And 5 months will go by fast.
This whole year has already gone by fast.

I cant beleive its almost 2008.


Yeah, I can't believe it either.

On the contrary, when I'm watching college games, I am seriously salivating at the prospect of a guy like Ryan Clady protecting Jay Cutler's blindside and using his manchildness to throw 300 pound lineman to the ground.

It happens!

[BroncoBJ]

Yeah, I can't believe it either.

On the contrary, when I'm watching college games, I am seriously salivating at the prospect of a guy like Ryan Clady protecting Jay Cutler's blindside and using his manchildness to throw 300 pound lineman to the ground.

It happens!

:lol: When I watch College games I think about who would look good in a Denver uniform.
But when I watch Denver games I never think about who I want to play what. I'm always focussed on that game.
Funny how it works :lol:

and Your post got reported :eek:

What did you say? :lol:

[Day1BroncoFan]

I was asking about the part where you dont draft to win in football.

I was referring to drafting behind a vehicle ahead of you to gain an advantage and save fuel. It was meant to be a metaphor of sorts.

The point is to win next games (all of the next games, all the way to the Super Bowl) and let the draft fall where it falls.

I find it kind of disturbing that a lot of fans are saying "I hope we get a high draft pick". To me that is to say “I hope we lose a lot of games this year”. That is something I find I just can't participate in.

EDIT:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the object is to win the next game not the next year.

[TXBRONC]

What about the Chargers?

Exactly up until the past three years.

[lex]

Exactly up until the past three years.

The point remains that not everyone remains perpetually bad.

[lex]

I'm guessing he was:

One, making a joke.

Two, saying that during the seasons, you don't worry about the draft, you worry about winning. When the season is over, and you are focusing on the next season (and beyond) then, and only then, do you worry about the draft.

No, I understood that much. It was the reference to racing that threw me.

[lex]

I was referring to drafting behind a vehicle ahead of you to gain an advantage and save fuel. It was meant to be a metaphor of sorts.

The point is to win next games (all of the next games, all the way to the Super Bowl) and let the draft fall where it falls.

I find it kind of disturbing that a lot of fans are saying "I hope we get a high draft pick". To me that is to say “I hope we lose a lot of games this year”. That is something I find I just can't participate in.

EDIT:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the object is to win the next game not the next year.


Drafting is how good teams are built. Check out the Steelers of the 70s.

[Tned]

Drafting is how good teams are built. Check out the Steelers of the 70s.

How many of the SB winning Broncos were drafted? Yes, some were, but an awful lot were brought in as FA as I remember. My mind isn't what it used to be, so I am trying to remember. I believe much of the o-line, d-line and secondary were FA's. Elway was quasi-drafted of course. Smith UFA, Mcafrey was an FA. Sharpe drafted, LB's mostly drafted, TD drafted, FB FA.

[TXBRONC]

How many of the SB winning Broncos were drafted? Yes, some were, but an awful lot were brought in as FA as I remember. My mind isn't what it used to be, so I am trying to remember. I believe much of the o-line, d-line and secondary were FA's. Elway was quasi-drafted of course. Smith UFA, McCaffrey was an FA. Sharpe drafted, LB's mostly drafted, TD drafted, FB FA.

Yep. On offense in 1987 the only Denver draft picks on offense were Nalen, Sharpe, Elway, and Davis I count Elway because we traded for him the year he was drafted by the Colts. Everyone else came via free agency. In 1998 Dan Neil replaced Brian Habib so that made five draft picks on the offense and of them only Elway was a number one pick.

In 1997 on defense Keith Traylor, John Mobley, Alan Aldridge, Steve Atwater, and Tyrone Braxton. I count both Braxton and Traylor because they were originally draft picks by the Broncos. In 1998 Pryce was either starting or getting significant playing time and Aldridge left to go and play with Lions.

[Day1BroncoFan]

Drafting is how good teams are built. Check out the Steelers of the 70s.

I'm talking about winning games now not building teams.

I will say again LET THE DRAFT FALL WHERE IT MAY.

[Tned]

I'm talking about winning games now not building teams.

I will say again LET THE DRAFT FALL WHERE IT MAY.

Which is 4 1/2 months after the season ends, or if as fans we are lucky, more like 3 1/2 months.

[lex]

How many of the SB winning Broncos were drafted? Yes, some were, but an awful lot were brought in as FA as I remember. My mind isn't what it used to be, so I am trying to remember. I believe much of the o-line, d-line and secondary were FA's. Elway was quasi-drafted of course. Smith UFA, Mcafrey was an FA. Sharpe drafted, LB's mostly drafted, TD drafted, FB FA.

That team was unique. At that time Shanahan was able to find value where others did not. 8 of the 11 starters on offense werent drafted before the 6th Rd. As a general rule its better to draft well than to be forced to sign free agents. And its easier to draft good players when youre at the front of the line.

[Tned]

That team was unique. At that time Shanahan was able to find value where others did not. 8 of the 11 starters on offense werent drafted before the 6th Rd. As a general rule its better to draft well than to be forced to sign free agents. And its easier to draft good players when youre at the front of the line.

LOL, ok. So, teams have to win via the draft, except for the Shanahan led Broncos in the late '90s. Ok, I will stick with my contention....

As a fan, give me my wins now, and let Miami, NYJ and the other teams fight over those top draft picks to waste on their losing teams.

[lex]

LOL, ok. So, teams have to win via the draft, except for the Shanahan led Broncos in the late '90s. Ok, I will stick with my contention....

As a fan, give me my wins now, and let Miami, NYJ and the other teams fight over those top draft picks to waste on their losing teams.

What youre not comprehending is the concept of value. We got enormous value out of FAs like Schlereth, Jones, McCaffrey, and several others that were not valued by other teams. Similarly, Terrell Davis was taken in the 6th Rd and was a league and SB MVP. Whether its undervalued FAs or players selected via the draft, value is good. Drafting well, provides value that reduces the necessity to pay for FAs. Look at Indy. They selected James to share the burden with Manning and were always contending once they drafted James.

[Tned]

What youre not comprehending is the concept of value. We got enormous value out of FAs like Schlereth, Jones, McCaffrey, and several others that were not valued by other teams. Similarly, Terrell Davis was taken in the 6th Rd and was a league and SB MVP. Whether its undervalued FAs or players selected via the draft, value is good. Drafting well, provides value that reduces the necessity to pay for FAs. Look at Indy. They selected James to share the burden with Manning and were always contending once they drafted James.

What you fail to comprehend is that it is ok for people to hold a different opinion than your own.

I prefer the team to get as many wins as possible, because I enjoy watching the Broncos win games, year in and year out.

You would rather see them tank, in hopes of getting a great player from a high draft pick.

I can accept your viewpoint, once again, you cannot accept someone's opinion that varies from your own.

[lex]

What you fail to comprehend is that it is ok for people to hold a different opinion than your own.

Its funny you say this now when you werent as tolerant when Dream posted. In fact, that kind of nonsense is why I felt compelled to post in this thread that really seemed to bait guys like Dream. Theres an argument to be made for people who want a high draft pick.

I prefer the team to get as many wins as possible, because I enjoy watching the Broncos win games, year in and year out.
Ive already posted in this very thread that I also enjoy watching the Broncos play when were losing because I like to watch the young guys progress. You dont really have the high ground here.


You would rather see them tank, in hopes of getting a great player from a high draft pick.

Once again, this position was addressed in this thread (yet you failed to comprehend) that its not that people are setting there hoping the guys go out there and not try. Quite the contrary.


I can accept your viewpoint, once again, you cannot accept someone's opinion that varies from your own.

No, you havent exactly been tolerant of the opposing viewpoint. At the outset you baited people with the opposing viewpoint and even now you are putting words in the mouths of those who stand in opposition. Im cool if you want to win as many games as possible. It hasnt really cut both ways in this thread though.

[Lonestar]

lets get back on track and topic here and leave the personal stuff alone..

[Tned]

Its funny you say this now when you werent as tolerant when Dream posted. In fact, that kind of nonsense is why I felt compelled to post in this thread that really seemed to bait guys like Dream. Theres an argument to be made for people who want a high draft pick.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I explained why I (like others who posted in this thread) prefer to have as many wins as possible, rather than feeling that if we can't win it all, we are better off with a real bad season to get a high draft pick and reload.

I have no idea what your 'tolerance' comment is about.


Ive already posted in this very thread that I also enjoy watching the Broncos play when were losing because I like to watch the young guys progress. You dont really have the high ground here.

There is no high ground. That is the point I tried to explain to you. I prefer winning. Someone like Dream, freely admits that while he likes to see the Broncos do well, researching college players and the anticipation of the draft, and hoping the Broncos have a high draft pick to use or trade, is more exciting to him than the season itself in many ways. He has been saying that for some time.

Each to their own. I like Coke, some people like Pepsi. Different strokes for different folks. Agree to disagree. Use any catch phrase you would like.


Once again, this position was addressed in this thread (yet you failed to comprehend) that its not that people are setting there hoping the guys go out there and not try. Quite the contrary.

No failure to comprehend here. I'm not the one telling people their viewpoints are wrong. I am only stating what I like and why.


No, you havent exactly been tolerant of the opposing viewpoint. At the outset you baited people with the opposing viewpoint and even now you are putting words in the mouths of those who stand in opposition. Im cool if you want to win as many games as possible. It hasnt really cut both ways in this thread though.

Show me where I baited people? I have stated my opinion about preferring a team that is a consistant winner to one that goes through the typical cyclical ups and downs that most non-Broncos NFL franchises experience. Where is this 'so called' baiting?

[lex]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I explained why I (like others who posted in this thread) prefer to have as many wins as possible, rather than feeling that if we can't win it all, we are better off with a real bad season to get a high draft pick and reload.

I have no idea what your 'tolerance' comment is about.



There is no high ground. That is the point I tried to explain to you. I prefer winning. Someone like Dream, freely admits that while he likes to see the Broncos do well, researching college players and the anticipation of the draft, and hoping the Broncos have a high draft pick to use or trade, is more exciting to him than the season itself in many ways. He has been saying that for some time.

Each to their own. I like Coke, some people like Pepsi. Different strokes for different folks. Agree to disagree. Use any catch phrase you would like.



No failure to comprehend here. I'm not the one telling people their viewpoints are wrong. I am only stating what I like and why.



Show me where I baited people? I have stated my opinion about preferring a team that is a consistant winner to one that goes through the typical cyclical ups and downs that most non-Broncos NFL franchises experience. Where is this 'so called' baiting?

Dator, Im going to let this back and forth end here. Ive been tactfully requested to do so.

[Tned]

Ok, while a lot of you are focused on where the Broncos will draft in '08, I am still looking for the team to continue to improve and get a playoff berth.

While I think it is possible to get a wild card spot, I think that is a harder road than winning the division.

If the Broncos do have a shot at the wild card, their best shot might be getting into a three way tie with the two AFC South Team not playing in a dome in Indy. Much in the way that Denver got kicked out in a three way tie, because they first applied a division tie breaker that KC won, the Broncos could have Ten or Jax kicked out in a three way tie, even if Jax and Ten both would beat them if they were in three seperate divisions. Anyway, too early for the full tie-breaking run down, other than to say that a three way tie for the two wild card spots with two AFC South teams would put the Broncos in the playoffs.

Back to the more likely AFC West scenario. Here is where we stand, with likely finishes to the season by both teams:


Denver
Week 9 4-5
Week Date Game
W 11 19-Nov TEN @ DEN
L 12 25-Nov DEN @ CHI
W 13 2-Dec DEN @ OAK
W 14 9-Dec KC @ DEN
L 15 13-Dec DEN @ HOU
W 16 24-Dec DEN @ SD
W 17 30-Dec MIN @ DEN

Overall 9-7
Div 5-2
Common n/a
Conf n/a

San Diego
Week 9 5-4
Week Date Game
L 11 18-Nov SD @ JAC
W 12 25-Nov BAL @ SD
L 13 2-Dec SD @ KC
W 14 9-Dec SD @ TEN
W 15 16-Dec DET @ SD
L 16 24-Dec DEN @ SD
W 17 30-Dec SD @ OAK

Overall 9-7
Div 3-4
Common n/a
Conf n/a

In the above scenario, the fact that Denver beat KC in KC, and that it is likely that SD loses to KC in KC in December (most teams do), puts Denver in a position to have a better division record in most scenarios where Denver and SD finish with the same record. Obviously, having SD beat the Colts on a botched chip-shot field goal hurt Denver tremendously, but it is still highly likely that SD and Den finish at 9-7, but with Denver having a one or two game edge in the division record. This assumes that Denver beats SD at hom in Week 16, because if they lose, then SD wins any tiebreakers based on the head to head matchup. Because of that, I have not looked at the record in common games, because it will likely come down to SD winning on head to head, or Denver winning on division record, if they beat SD at home in week 16.

Back to the wildcard. If SD does beat Jax this weekend, then it makes it less likely that Denver wins the west, but if Denver and SD both win this weekend, it makes it more likely that Denver will be tied for the wild card spot(s).

If Denver wins, they will have the head-to-head edge over Ten and Buf, in a possible wild card tiebreaker, and currently holds a one game edge over Cleveland in the conference record (another important tiebreaker). Jax is the only team above Denver that would be in the wild card hunt (SD wouldn't be in the picture, as either Denver or SD wins the West, so they won't compete for the wild card spot) that Denver has no shot of winning a two team tiebreaker against, due to head to head record.

So, in summary, Denver is in a position to win the West with a 9-7 record if they beat SD at home, but if SD beats Jax and has a 10 or greater win season, then Denver could still grab a wild card spot via a tiebreaker.

Ok, San Diego did their part, now it is up to Denver. If Denver wins tomorrow night, then SD and Denver will be tied for the division lead, with SD holding the head-to-head tiebreaker, but obviously with them playing again in a couple weeks, where Denver can neutralize that tiebreaker by winning in SD.

[TXBRONC]

Ok, San Diego did their part, now it is up to Denver. If Denver wins tomorrow night, then SD and Denver will be tied for the division lead, with SD holding the head-to-head tiebreaker, but obviously with them playing again in a couple weeks, where Denver can neutralize that tiebreaker by winning in SD.


As you said first things first, Denver has to take care their buiness for this work.

[Tned]

As you said first things first, Denver has to take care their buiness for this work.

Yep, the Broncos now have control of their own destiny, but they have to win and take control.

[Tned]

Ok, I will update this after tomorrow night when the games are finished, but here is where we are at the moment, with making the assumption that Denver wins tomorrow, since that is in my making the playoffs model in my OP.



AFC W L T PCT
NE 10 0 0 1.000
Ind 8 2 0 0.800
Pit 7 2 0 0.778
SD 5 5 0 0.500

Jax 7 3 0 0.700
Tenn 6 4 0 0.600
Clev 6 4 0 0.600
Hou 5 5 0 0.500
Den 5 5 0 0.500
Buf 5 5 0 0.500
KC 4 6 0 0.400
Bal 4 6 0 0.400


Winning tomorrow will put us in a tie for first place, but since SD still holds the tie breaking edge, I put them in the AFC West playoff spot.

Jax increased their hold on the 1st wild card spot by beating SD. If we beat Tenn, we move within one game of the second wild card spot, and will hold the tie breaker (two way tie) over Tenn and Buff, and we are playing Houston later (which I have predicted as a loss for Den) in the year and that will determine which team holds that tie-breaker edge. Assuming we win tomorrow, we will have the edge over Cleveland in terms of conference records.

In a three way tie, Buff and Denver would have the best conference record, and therefore would revert to head-to-head, where Denver has the edge having beaten Denver.

So, what all of this means is....

Come on Denver, beat those Titans!!!!!

[TXBRONC]

Yep, the Broncos now have control of their own destiny, but they have to win and take control.

We have to win the division to get into the playoffs don't we?

[Tned]

We have to win the division to get into the playoffs don't we?

That's the easiest route (easy being relative), but they can't be ruled out of a wild card spot.

[AFGAHNI_BATTLE_DONKEY]

No playoffs please.

were going to the playoffs weather you draft nerds like it or not

[TXBRONC]

That's the easiest route (easy being relative), but they can't be ruled out of a wild card spot.

Considering our record and the tie breaker situation that is developing it seems like it may more or less all or nothing.

[Tned]

Considering our record and the tie breaker situation that is developing it seems like it may more or less all or nothing.

Actually, while it will definately be harder than winning the division, if we beat Tenn tomorrow, we will be only one game out of the second wild card spot, and have the tiebreaking edge over most of the teams above us, including Tenn in the head-to-head if we do win tomorrow.

I don't think 9-7 will cut it, but if let's say we win the games I predicted, but also win in Houston, and get to 10-6, we will likely be in a tie for the 2nd wild card spot, and in a good tie breaker situation if we get into that tie.

[TXBRONC]

Actually, while it will definately be harder than winning the division, if we beat Tenn tomorrow, we will be only one game out of the second wild card spot, and have the tiebreaking edge over most of the teams above us, including Tenn in the head-to-head if we do win tomorrow.

I don't think 9-7 will cut it, but if let's say we win the games I predicted, but also win in Houston, and get to 10-6, we will likely be in a tie for the 2nd wild card spot, and in a good tie breaker situation if we get into that tie.

Without having looked at anything my guess would have been that it will take a 10-6 or 11-5 record for us to get in.

[eessydo]

Drafting is how good teams are built. Check out the Steelers of the 70s.

All they had was the draft in the 70's, your point is not understood here. Until the advent of free agency every team was pretty much built through the draft.

I am sure that someone will figure out how to build a team through free agency sooner or later. Heck, look at New England this year, they built this team through free agency and trades, otherwise they would just be another team trying to beat Indy. It is a relatively new science to the NFL, and like anything else it will take some time to understand the FA/draft blend and execute it against the cap.

[Lonestar]

All they had was the draft in the 70's, your point is not understood here. Until the advent of free agency everything was done through the draft.
I am sure that someone will figure out how to build a team through free agency sooner or later. Heck, look at New England this year, they built this team through free agency and trades, otherwise they would just be another team trying to beat Indy.


Trades and cut players were available also.. Just not Free agency as we know it today and no cap as we have it now..

Things salary wise did not get completely out of control until FA started in 1995 or so..


But prior to this year and remember they were in several Super bowls before and won them they had built the team in the draft in fact they have probably lost more players to FA than they have gotten back..

[TXBRONC]

Trades and cut players were available also.. Just not Free agency as we know it today and no cap as we have it now..

Things salary wise did not get completely out of control until FA started in 1995 or so..

Out of four major sports in the U.S. football, baseball, basketball, and hockey, football players make the least amount of money and do not have guaranteed contracts like the other three.

By comparison pro football are not out of control.

[Lonestar]

Out of four major sports in the U.S. football, baseball, basketball, and hockey, football players make the least amount of money and do not have guaranteed contracts like the other three.

By comparison pro football are not out of control.


If you say so OK but a player no player is worth upwards of 11+ mil per year. ten percent of the team cap.

http://www.nflpa.org/Resources/ActivePlayerSearch.aspx?id=25927


2006 QB

Player Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Brady, Tom Patriots $ 4,000,000 $ 0 $ 12,004,840 $ 16,004,840 $ 13,828,590
Vick, Michael Falcons $ 1,400,000 $ 0 $ 7,001,980 $ 8,401,980 $ 13,074,837
Palmer, Carson Bengals $ 6,750,000 $ 0 $ 9,000,000 $ 15,750,000 $ 12,980,000
Favre, Brett Packers $ 7,000,000 $ 0 $ 3,000,990 $ 10,000,990 $ 12,634,325
Manning, Peyton Colts $ 1,000,000 $ 0 $ 9,004,400 $ 10,004,400 $ 10,571,068

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=106

I do not follow the other sports so I can't vouch for them nor do I care about them.

[Tned]

If you say so OK but a player no player is worth upwards of 11+ mil per year. ten percent of the team cap.

http://www.nflpa.org/Resources/ActivePlayerSearch.aspx?id=25927


2006 QB

Player Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Brady, Tom Patriots $ 4,000,000 $ 0 $ 12,004,840 $ 16,004,840 $ 13,828,590
Vick, Michael Falcons $ 1,400,000 $ 0 $ 7,001,980 $ 8,401,980 $ 13,074,837
Palmer, Carson Bengals $ 6,750,000 $ 0 $ 9,000,000 $ 15,750,000 $ 12,980,000
Favre, Brett Packers $ 7,000,000 $ 0 $ 3,000,990 $ 10,000,990 $ 12,634,325
Manning, Peyton Colts $ 1,000,000 $ 0 $ 9,004,400 $ 10,004,400 $ 10,571,068

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=106

I do not follow the other sports so I can't vouch for them nor do I care about them.

I think Brady and his 35 TDs or whatever he will have by the time this game ends, and Manning are probably worth well more than 10%.

Rosters are made up of a handful of players making huge salaries. A handful of players making at or near the league minimum. And the rest of players falling in between.

[TXBRONC]

If you say so OK but a player no player is worth upwards of 11+ mil per year. ten percent of the team cap.

http://www.nflpa.org/Resources/ActivePlayerSearch.aspx?id=25927


2006 QB

Player Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Brady, Tom Patriots $ 4,000,000 $ 0 $ 12,004,840 $ 16,004,840 $ 13,828,590
Vick, Michael Falcons $ 1,400,000 $ 0 $ 7,001,980 $ 8,401,980 $ 13,074,837
Palmer, Carson Bengals $ 6,750,000 $ 0 $ 9,000,000 $ 15,750,000 $ 12,980,000
Favre, Brett Packers $ 7,000,000 $ 0 $ 3,000,990 $ 10,000,990 $ 12,634,325
Manning, Peyton Colts $ 1,000,000 $ 0 $ 9,004,400 $ 10,004,400 $ 10,571,068

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=106

I do not follow the other sports so I can't vouch for them nor do I care about them.

11 million is chicken fee compared to what A Rod will get with Yankees. Try $250 million on for size.

I'm not asking you to care about other sports, however, its misnomer to say that pro football salaries are out of control especially in comparison to other sports.

[Lonestar]

11 million is chicken fee compared to what A Rod will get with Yankees. Try $250 million on for size.

and how many games does arod play per year .. Just because steinbenner is stupid does not make feel I have to copy him..

[Tned]

and how many games does arod play per year .. Just because steinbenner is stupid does not make feel I have to copy him..

Arod's initial $250 million contract ($25 mil a year) was signed with Texas, not the Yankees. After Arod was traded to the Yankees, Texas has been paying about $23 million of the salary each year, and they Yankees and Steinbrenner only $2 million or so a year.

Sounds like Georgie is pretty darn smart to me...

[TXBRONC]

and how many games does arod play per year .. Just because steinbenner is stupid does not make feel I have to copy him..

Why does the number of games A Rod will/does matter? The fact is his contract will be guaranteed which is not something you will find in the NFL.

[Lonestar]

Arod's initial $250 million contract ($25 mil a year) was signed with Texas, not the Yankees. After Arod was traded to the Yankees, Texas has been paying about $23 million of the salary each year, and they Yankees and Steinbrenner only $2 million or so a year.

Sounds like Georgie is pretty darn smart to me...

does that mean he is worth it? Mr CHOKE in OCT!!!!!!!

[TXBRONC]

Arod's initial $250 million contract ($25 mil a year) was signed with Texas, not the Yankees. After Arod was traded to the Yankees, Texas has been paying about $23 million of the salary each year, and they Yankees and Steinbrenner only $2 million or so a year.

Sounds like Georgie is pretty darn smart to me...

I thought A Rod new contract was going to be worth $250 million?

[TXBRONC]

does that mean he is worth it? Mr CHOKE in OCT!!!!!!!

Wait a minute the premise of our new debate is that NFLsalaries are out control not whether or not a player is worth the kind of cash A Rod gets.

[Tned]

I thought A Rod new contract was going to be worth $250 million?

Actually, his new contract is being reported as $275 million over 10 years, but his originally contract signed with Texas 8 years ago, was $250 million for 10 years.


does that mean he is worth it? Mr CHOKE in OCT!!!!!!!

Obviously the free market thinks he is. He will likely break the all time home run record, and is one of, if not the, best player in baseball. So, based on that, and the fact he is being paid $25 million a year (soon to be $27 million a year), clearly he is worth it.

A player, in any sport, is worth what the market values him at. He is clearly worth $25 million a year. Just like some CEO's are woth $100 million a year. Value isn't set by us forum-goers, it is determined by the people writing the checks.

[Lonestar]

Wait a minute the premise of our new debate is that NFLsalaries are out control not whether or not a player is worth the kind of cash A Rod gets.

Yep we should get back on topic..

DENVER PLAYOFF WATCH

[Tned]

Arod's riches aside, what exactly does all this have to do with the Denver Broncos' playoff watch :confused:

[Tned]

Yep we should get back on topic..

DENVER PLAYOFF WATCH


Arod's riches aside, what exactly does all this have to do with the Denver Broncos' playoff watch :confused:

LOL, you beat me to it, but I agree. :D

[TXBRONC]

Arod's riches aside, what exactly does all this have to do with the Denver Broncos' playoff watch :confused:

Last time I check not a whole lot.

[Tned]

Ok, while a lot of you are focused on where the Broncos will draft in '08, I am still looking for the team to continue to improve and get a playoff berth.

While I think it is possible to get a wild card spot, I think that is a harder road than winning the division.

If the Broncos do have a shot at the wild card, their best shot might be getting into a three way tie with the two AFC South Team not playing in a dome in Indy. Much in the way that Denver got kicked out in a three way tie, because they first applied a division tie breaker that KC won, the Broncos could have Ten or Jax kicked out in a three way tie, even if Jax and Ten both would beat them if they were in three seperate divisions. Anyway, too early for the full tie-breaking run down, other than to say that a three way tie for the two wild card spots with two AFC South teams would put the Broncos in the playoffs.

Back to the more likely AFC West scenario. Here is where we stand, with likely finishes to the season by both teams:


Denver
Week 9 4-5
Week Date Game
W 11 19-Nov TEN @ DEN
L 12 25-Nov DEN @ CHI
W 13 2-Dec DEN @ OAK
W 14 9-Dec KC @ DEN
L 15 13-Dec DEN @ HOU
W 16 24-Dec DEN @ SD
W 17 30-Dec MIN @ DEN

Overall 9-7
Div 5-2
Common n/a
Conf n/a

San Diego
Week 9 5-4
Week Date Game
L 11 18-Nov SD @ JAC
W 12 25-Nov BAL @ SD
L 13 2-Dec SD @ KC
W 14 9-Dec SD @ TEN
W 15 16-Dec DET @ SD
L 16 24-Dec DEN @ SD
W 17 30-Dec SD @ OAK

Overall 9-7
Div 3-4
Common n/a
Conf n/a

In the above scenario, the fact that Denver beat KC in KC, and that it is likely that SD loses to KC in KC in December (most teams do), puts Denver in a position to have a better division record in most scenarios where Denver and SD finish with the same record. Obviously, having SD beat the Colts on a botched chip-shot field goal hurt Denver tremendously, but it is still highly likely that SD and Den finish at 9-7, but with Denver having a one or two game edge in the division record. This assumes that Denver beats SD at hom in Week 16, because if they lose, then SD wins any tiebreakers based on the head to head matchup. Because of that, I have not looked at the record in common games, because it will likely come down to SD winning on head to head, or Denver winning on division record, if they beat SD at home in week 16.

Back to the wildcard. If SD does beat Jax this weekend, then it makes it less likely that Denver wins the west, but if Denver and SD both win this weekend, it makes it more likely that Denver will be tied for the wild card spot(s).

If Denver wins, they will have the head-to-head edge over Ten and Buf, in a possible wild card tiebreaker, and currently holds a one game edge over Cleveland in the conference record (another important tiebreaker). Jax is the only team above Denver that would be in the wild card hunt (SD wouldn't be in the picture, as either Denver or SD wins the West, so they won't compete for the wild card spot) that Denver has no shot of winning a two team tiebreaker against, due to head to head record.

So, in summary, Denver is in a position to win the West with a 9-7 record if they beat SD at home, but if SD beats Jax and has a 10 or greater win season, then Denver could still grab a wild card spot via a tiebreaker.

Denver and San Diego are tied for the division lead, but San Diego has the tiebreaker due to the win over Denver.

In terms of a Wild Card spot:



AFC W L T PCT DIV CONF
NE 10 0 0 1.000
Ind 8 2 0 0.800
Pit 7 2 0 0.778
SD 5 5 0 0.500 2-1 4-3**Currently division winner via tiebreaker

Jax 7 3 0 0.700 2-2 5-2
Clev 6 4 0 0.600 3-2 4-4
Tenn 6 4 0 0.600 2-2 3-3
Den 5 5 0 0.500 2-1 5-3
Hou 5 5 0 0.500 0-3 3-4
Buf 5 5 0 0.500 3-2 5-4


Ok, here is how it breaks down.


Jax increased their hold on the 1st wild card spot by beating SD.

With the win over Tenn, we moved within one game of the second wild card spot.

We hold the tie breaker (two way tie) over Tenn and Buff due to beating both of them.

We currently have the lead over the Texans with a better conference record, but in a two way tie-breaker, it will come down to who wins in the Den-Tex matchup later in the year.

We are one game behind Cleveland, but have a better conference record, so currently hold the tiebreaker if we were to tie them.

Currently, Jax is the only wildcard team with a tiebreaker over us (they beat us, and have a better conference record, which means they beat us in a two way or three way tie).

Assuming Jax takes the first wildcard spot:

In a three way tie, Buff and Denver would have the best conference record, and therefore would revert to head-to-head, where Denver has the edge having beaten Buffalo.

So, while we are one game out of the wild card, our tie-breaker scenarios are very good if we pull in to a tie for the second wild card spot.

[broncosfanscott]

Things are looking better Tned and if the Broncos keep playing this way, I like our chances. That was a big conference home win and now we need to go to Chicago and keep taking care of business.

I was very happy with what I saw tonight. Once againg it was a total team effort that resulted in the highest point total for a game this season. Jay played well and I was happy to see that he put up a zero in the turnover department. Nice win.

[TXBRONC]

Things are looking better Tned and if the Broncos keep playing this way, I like our chances. That was a big conference home win and now we need to go to Chicago and keep taking care of business.

I was very happy with what I saw tonight. Once againg it was a total team effort that resulted in the highest point total for a game this season. Jay played well and I was happy to see that he put up a zero in the turnover department. Nice win.


As of right now no team that we will face the rest of the season has a winning record.

And yeah it was a nice win last night. :elefant:

[omac]

As of right now no team that we will face the rest of the season has a winning record.

And yeah it was a nice win last night. :elefant:

I just hope they keep with this same mindset. I wouldn't want a let-down; no team is easy. The Broncos seem to bring out the best in the struggling teams they face. :D

[Tned]

Denver and San Diego are tied for the division lead, but San Diego has the tiebreaker due to the win over Denver.

In terms of a Wild Card spot:



AFC W L T PCT DIV CONF
NE 10 0 0 1.000
Ind 8 2 0 0.800
Pit 7 2 0 0.778
SD 5 5 0 0.500 2-1 4-3**Currently division winner via tiebreaker

Jax 7 3 0 0.700 2-2 5-2
Clev 6 4 0 0.600 3-2 4-4
Tenn 6 4 0 0.600 2-2 3-3
Den 5 5 0 0.500 2-1 5-3
Hou 5 5 0 0.500 0-3 3-4
Buf 5 5 0 0.500 3-2 5-4


Ok, here is how it breaks down.


Jax increased their hold on the 1st wild card spot by beating SD.

With the win over Tenn, we moved within one game of the second wild card spot.

We hold the tie breaker (two way tie) over Tenn and Buff due to beating both of them.

We currently have the lead over the Texans with a better conference record, but in a two way tie-breaker, it will come down to who wins in the Den-Tex match up later in the year.

We are one game behind Cleveland, but have a better conference record, so currently hold the tiebreaker if we were to tie them.

Currently, Jax is the only wild card team with a tiebreaker over us (they beat us, and have a better conference record, which means they beat us in a two way or three way tie).

Assuming Jax takes the first wildcard spot:

In a three way tie, Buff and Denver would have the best conference record, and therefore would revert to head-to-head, where Denver has the edge having beaten Buffalo.

So, while we are one game out of the wild card, our tie-breaker scenarios are very good if we pull in to a tie for the second wild card spot.

Time for the week 12 match ups to watch that could vault Denver into the wild card round:


Ok, obviously, a win by Denver and loss by SD would put us in first place in the division, and put us in a position to grab the four seed.
If two games go the right way, Denver should hold the second wildcard spot by the end of the weekend.
Houston needs to win in Cleveland.
c Cincinnati needs to win at home against the Titans.


Obviously, Denver has to win in order for any of this to matter. However, if Denver wins and either Sd looses OR both Houston and Cincy win, then Denver will be first in line for the west seed or second wild card spot (since they will the tiebreaker over Cleveland and Tenn if they both lose).

We arene't there yet, and there is still plenty of games left but there is a path to the playoffs that is clearly being defined, and this weekend could put us as the leader for a wild card spot and being in position to be incomplete control of our destiny for a wildcard spot, as we already are with the division title.

[TXBRONC]

Thanks for the breakdown Tned. :salute:

Like you said for any of this to matter Denver has to take care of their business first.

[topscribe]

Prospects don't look good for a Wild Card to come out of the AFCW.

If the Broncos are going to see the playoffs this year, they need to win the Division.

-----

[Lonestar]

Time for the week 12 match ups to watch that could vault Denver into the wild card round:


Ok, obviously, a win by Denver and loss by SD would put us in first place in the division, and put us in a position to grab the four seed.
If two games go the right way, Denver should hold the second wildcard spot by the end of the weekend.
Houston needs to win in Cleveland.
c Cincinnati needs to win at home against the Titans.


Obviously, Denver has to win in order for any of this to matter. However, if Denver wins and either Sd looses OR both Houston and Cincy win, then Denver will be first in line for the west seed or second wild card spot (since they will the tiebreaker over Cleveland and Tenn if they both lose).

We arene't there yet, and there is still plenty of games left but there is a path to the playoffs that is clearly being defined, and this weekend could put us as the leader for a wild card spot and being in position to be incomplete control of our destiny for a wildcard spot, as we already are with the division title.



MY own little :salute: to you..

[TXBRONC]

Prospects don't look good for a Wild Card to come out of the AFCW.

If the Broncos are going to see the playoffs this year, they need to win the Division.

-----

I agree, if get in it will be as a division winner, the Wild Card slot while possible just doesn't seem likely.

[Tned]

I agree, if get in it will be as a division winner, the Wild Card slot while possible just doesn't seem likely.


Prospects don't look good for a Wild Card to come out of the AFCW.

If the Broncos are going to see the playoffs this year, they need to win the Division.

-----

I think it has to do with whether or not you focus on the playoff picture (teams inolved, there records and the tiebreaker situation), or if you focus on the Broncos first half performances.

Teams ahead of us (conceding one wild card spot to Jax).

The Titans for instance, one of the two teams ahead of us, has a tough road to hoe. They have to go to Cincy, play Houston and SD in Texas, then go to KC (in December) and Indy. If Ten comes out of that 3-3 it will be impressive, they could easily go 2-4. The Jets are the only easy win.

Cleveland has a better chance, as there schedule is much easier. They host Houstaon, then go to Ari and the Jests, then host Buff and SF, and go to Cincy (not actually in that order). That schedule is as easy, or easier than ours, so this becomes the toughest competition for the last playoff spot.

Teams tied with us (not including SD, because Denver likely won't compete with them for a wild card spot)

Buffalo has a reasonably hard final six games. They are at Jax, Washington, Cleveland and Phi, and host Miami and the Jets. They should easily win their home games, but will be lucky to go 2-2 in their road games, so 4-2 is very likely for them, no worse than 3-3. Since we have beaten Buffalo and have a better conference record, we currently hold both the two way and three way tiebreakers over Buffalo. All Denver has to do is finish the season even with Buffalo to beat them.

Houston might have the toughest remaining schedule of all AFC wild card contenders. All teams they have left are at or above .500. They go to Cleveland, Tenn, and Indy, and host Tampa, Denver and Jax. Getting through those six games 3-3 would be a minor miracle.

So, when you breakdown the wild card picture, it most likely comes down to whether or not denver can pickup one game on Cleveland.

Cleveland remaining games:
Hou
@ARI
@NYJ
BUF
@CIN
SF

Denver remaining games:
@CHI
@OAK
KC
@HOU
@SD
MIN

There is no question that Cleveland has the easier schedule and could go 4-2 and 3-3 should be a cakewalk. Denver has to pickup one game on Cleveland, and that could be very tough.

However, I break all of this down to show that with the exception of Cleveland, Denver actually sits in a VERY good spot to make a run at a wild card spot. Cleveland still has a lot to prove, since most/all of their wins came against bad or struggling teams, they might not fully take advantage of their easy finishing schedule. Regardless, if Cleveland faulters down the stretch, then the Broncos are sitting in a great place.

[omac]

Baltimore x SD, KC x Oakland, Denver x Chicago ...

GO BALTIMORE!!!!! GO OAKLAND!!!!!

GO DENVER!!!!!

[SR]

As long as Denver wins, I don't care about the KC/OAK game. I just hope the Ravens can get their act together enough to beat the Chargers. :salute:

[TXBRONC]

As long as Denver wins, I don't care about the KC/OAK game. I just hope the Ravens can get their act together enough to beat the Chargers. :salute:

That might be a taller order than Denver continuing this turn around.

[eessydo]

NOTHING LEFT TO WATCH.........we can kill this thread

[Tned]

NOTHING LEFT TO WATCH.........we can kill this thread

Why, look at the first post in it, I have predicted the first two weeks of the playoff run 'dead-on' with SD and Denver each going 1-1 in the first two weeks.

[omac]

What happens if with the remaining schedule, both SD and Denver win all their other games, but Denver beats SD. Who will lead the division?

[Tned]

What happens if with the remaining schedule, both SD and Denver win all their other games, but Denver beats SD. Who will lead the division?

Well, if Denver wins out, and SD wins all but the SD game, then they finsih tied. They split the season series, and it goes to division record. Denver would have a 5-1 division record, and SD would have a 4-2 division record.

So, in the scenario you laid out, Denver wins the AFC West.

[Stargazer]

NOTHING LEFT TO WATCH.........we can kill this thread

Well, to be optimistic there's another matchup with SD.

But, overall you can say this thread is dead. There's only 5 games left. And the way Denver plays football, there isn't much hope.

[Nomad]

Out of KC and OAK, I think OAK has the better chance of beating the BRONCOS. Their run game looked good today, so BRONCOS better have their A game next week . I don't see the BRONCOS beating SD.

[Tned]

Well, to be optimistic there's another matchup with SD.

But, overall you can say this thread is dead. There's only 5 games left. And the way Denver plays football, there isn't much hope.

Long from it, as I already said, the original post in this thread predicted a loss to Chicago, and Denver winning the division. You would think you would at least let me keep the thread going until one of my original game predictions was wrong ;)

[TXBRONC]

Well, to be optimistic there's another matchup with SD.

But, overall you can say this thread is dead. There's only 5 games left. And the way Denver plays football, there isn't much hope.


I don't knw Star I don't think the fat lady is even clearing her throat just yet.

[omac]

I don't Star I don't think the fat lady is even her throat just yet.

Yeah, me neither. Denver's offense has played pretty well again, making some big plays with running and passing TDs. Defense played well most of the game. It's really the special teams that let the team down.

On a side note, I didn't want Benson to go down, not only because of his injury, but because I thought Peterson might actually be a better back. Unfortunately for us, the better back who they usually don't give enough touches played the remainder of the game and made a big impact.

[Medford Bronco]

Well, to be optimistic there's another matchup with SD.

But, overall you can say this thread is dead. There's only 5 games left. And the way Denver plays football, there isn't much hope.

teams that do not play defense, usually do not
make the playoffs,

SD is better anyways.
I will enjoy Cutlers development and hope they
wake up and get some d Lineman to shake up
the pathetic group they currently have

[TXBRONC]

teams that do not play defense, usually do not
make the playoffs,

SD is better anyways.
I will enjoy Cutlers development and hope they
wake up and get some d Lineman to shake up
the pathetic group they currently have


I don't think that greater part of the blame can be laid at the feet at the defense. They played well for most for most of the game. Special Teams is what really let us down because that unit kept leaving the door open for the Bears to come back and win the game.

[pnbronco]

You know any other year I would say it was over. In a strange way I don't think they are done yet. Other than Special Teams I think they did a fairly good job on a team that had it's back against the wall. So I don't think the fat lady is ready yet, a very strange year.

[AFGAHNI_BATTLE_DONKEY]

all denver has to do is win the next 5 games and were in.

[Tned]

all denver has to do is win the next 5 games and were in.

No, probably four wins will do it, as long as one of those four is in SD.


You know any other year I would say it was over. In a strange way I don't think they are done yet. Other than Special Teams I think they did a fairly good job on a team that had it's back against the wall. So I don't think the fat lady is ready yet, a very strange year.

Each week since mid-season or so, the team has been getting better. Have they won every game? No, but with the exception of the Detroit game, they have shown very good signs of life since the Pitt game. The offense is starting to consistantly put points on the board. This is a team gettting better, but they aren't going to be a world beater overnight.

However, if they can win 3 or 4 of the next five, and get in the playoffs, I think they could be fun to watch with five more games of gelling.

[TXBRONC]

No, probably four wins will do it, as long as one of those four is in SD.



Each week since mid-season or so, the team has been getting better. Have they won every game? No, but with the exception of the Detroit game, they have shown very good signs of life since the Pitt game. The offense is starting to consistantly put points on the board. This is a team gettting better, but they aren't going to be a world beater overnight.

However, if they can win 3 or 4 of the next five, and get in the playoffs, I think they could be fun to watch with five more games of gelling.

It still would be nice if Denver could have clean sweep of the last five games.

[Medford Bronco]

You know any other year I would say it was over. In a strange way I don't think they are done yet. Other than Special Teams I think they did a fairly good job on a team that had it's back against the wall. So I don't think the fat lady is ready yet, a very strange year.

I think we are still alive but on breath support

and anyone who thinks next weeks game
at Oakland will be easy is loco IMO

They won in Arrowhead as well and have
had tough games all year. They can run the ball
and we suck against the run.

I think we can win but it will be tough

hopefully Marshmellow Arm Cullpepper shows
up for Oakland

Also in the NFL as we saw today
against a supposed inferior team
its never easy to win on the road.

[Broncos Mtnman]

I think we are still alive but on breath support

and anyone who thinks next weeks game
at Oakland will be easy is loco IMO

They won in Arrowhead as well and have
had tough games all year. They can run the ball
and we suck against the run.

I think we can win but it will be tough

hopefully Marshmellow Arm Cullpepper shows
up for Oakland

Also in the NFL as we saw today
against a supposed inferior team
its never easy to win on the road.

No game is easy, but your comment about us "sucking" against the run isn't accurate any longer.

With Culpepper as QB, if we slow down the run, we win with it with no problem.

Yeah, they won at Arrowhead, against a 3rd string RB and a 2nd string QB. Even at that, they only managed to win by 3.

As I said, no game is easy, but if we play the Raiders the way we played da Bears today, we will take Chokeland down.

But hey, keep rooting against us. We started winning when you did that. This week you picked us to win and look what happened. :laugh:

[Medford Bronco]

No game is easy, but your comment about us "sucking" against the run isn't accurate any longer.

With Culpepper as QB, if we slow down the run, we win with it with no problem.

Yeah, they won at Arrowhead, against a 3rd string RB and a 2nd string QB. Even at that, they only managed to win by 3.

As I said, no game is easy, but if we play the Raiders the way we played da Bears today, we will take Chokeland down.

But hey, keep rooting against us. We started winning when you did that. This week you picked us to win and look what happened. :laugh:

Mtn Man I never root against us

I just get down when I see that we are struggling that is all


I love this team and have for many many years.

I just am honest that is all. I think we struggle against the run
and when we cheated to stop in, Rex went over the top to beat us.

if we played it straight. Desmond Clark does not get wide open to
lose the game

[Lonestar]

I don't think that greater part of the blame can be laid at the feet at the defense. They played well for most for most of the game. Special Teams is what really let us down because that unit kept leaving the door open for the Bears to come back and win the game.

But TX we had a 14 point lead even after all the ST heroics with 7 minutes and change the defense more or less collapsed.. see the post about with the time line and scores.

Do you think we would have put p those scores if the ST had not scored on run backs or more likely mikey thinking his defense had pretty well contained Grossman in the second half would have went into play it safe mode earlier than it did. After all the offense had played pretty good for most of the game until the BEARS had the momentum late in the 4th quarter.

Whether it was our defense or Grossman and company just played crappy in the 3 rd quarter and half of the 4th his numbers and their impotent offense had but a few yards in the second half.

[Devilspawn]

It's Raider Week. I smell a good old fashioned dog fight in the Black Hole. :welcome:

[Medford Bronco]

It's Raider Week. I smell a good old fashioned dog fight in the Black Hole. :welcome:

DS did I beat you in FF :confused:

yes :offtopic:

dont care lol

on topic, I hope Marshmellow Arm Cullpepper shows up

I am still waiting for Jemarcus to start.

[Watchthemiddle]

I am still in shock that we lost this game today. The highlights are killing me. Just when we had a 2 game win streak, all the momentum our way and goign our way today we let it slip out of reach.

What happened after the long bomb to Marshall? What happened after the incredible catch by Sheffter in the endzone?

This is the kind of game that is tuff to swallow and the type of season as well.

Making the playoffs with this team this year is a long shot. Not being a debbie downer, :laugh: , but just being realistic.

[Devilspawn]

DS did I beat you in FF :confused:

yes :offtopic:

dont care lol

on topic, I hope Marshmellow Arm Cullpepper shows up

I am still waiting for Jemarcus to start.

Did tyou win?

I had Devin Hester in one league and won by 5 points.

Brady & especially Moss were silent tonight, so I think you won. :tsk:

I wouldn't worry to much about 'Pepper if we can get our running game going.

Jamarcus might play next week. Finally!

[Tned]

DS did I beat you in FF :confused:

yes :offtopic:

dont care lol

on topic, I hope Marshmellow Arm Cullpepper shows up

I am still waiting for Jemarcus to start.

I figured the Broncos would put up 30+ on the Bears, so I sat the Bears and started the Bills. I honestly didn't think about the Hester factor, nor expect him to do what he did, but the difference between the Bills and Bears was around 27 points, which cost me the week, and I am sure the playoffs :sad:

[TXBRONC]

But TX we had a 14 point lead even after all the ST heroics with 7 minutes and change the defense more or less collapsed.. see the post about with the time line and scores.

Do you think we would have put p those scores if the ST had not scored on run backs or more likely mikey thinking his defense had pretty well contained Grossman in the second half would have went into play it safe mode earlier than it did. After all the offense had played pretty good for most of the game until the BEARS had the momentum late in the 4th quarter.

Whether it was our defense or Grossman and company just played crappy in the 3 rd quarter and half of the 4th his numbers and their impotent offense had but a few yards in the second half.

No, I don't agree. Those run backs, a blocked punt, and a bad squib kick kept the Bears in the game.

[champbronc2]

We barely beat OAK at home.

Now we have to play @OAK. We have gotten better through the season.

21-14 is my prediction. But, if we loose this game we are pretty much screwed.

We HAVE to beat @SD too.

[Tned]

We barely beat OAK at home.

Now we have to play @OAK. We have gotten better through the season.

21-14 is my prediction. But, if we loose this game we are pretty much screwed.

We HAVE to beat @SD too.

Right now, our playoff hopes are still in our hands. If we lose next week, then we need SD to lose as well. Right now, win out (not likely I admit) and we are in, which puts the Broncos playoff future in their own hands. If they drop more than one game back to SD, or lose a division game when SD doesn't, then it is no longer in the Broncos control.

[Lonestar]

No, I don't agree. Those run backs, a blocked punt, and a bad squib kick kept the Bears in the game.


Even counting the 37 they hung on us they average 20.1 points game. 34 should have been enough to beat them.

Did the 14 that Hester put on the board hurt us sure . But TX with a 14 point lead with 7 minutes to go in the game should the offense been able to almost double their yards in the last seven minutes considering we have the ball part of that time. Absolutely not our defense folded like a cheap tent in 100 mph winds.

[TXBRONC]

Even counting the 37 they hung on us they average 20.1 points game. 34 should have been enough to beat them.

Did the 14 that Hester put on the board hurt us sure . But TX with a 14 point lead with 7 minutes to go in the game should the offense been able to almost double their yards in the last seven minutes considering we have the ball part of that time. Absolutely not our defense folded like a cheap tent in 100 mph winds.

Jr must not watched the game. Because they didn't 14 points from their special teams, they got 21.

[Lonestar]

Jr must not watched the game. Because they didn't 14 points from their special teams, they got 21.

taht is not true.. they did not score on the blocked punt unless you got a different version than I did.. The defense allowed that score.

[TXBRONC]

taht is not true.. they did not score on the blocked punt unless you got a different version than I did.. The defense allowed that score.

You must have watched because in game I watched the Bears blocked the punt and recovered the ball inside the 20, to be precise it was the 18 yard line. The offense took it the rest of way but it was set by Special Teams.

Now it may not be by your estimation that Special Teams responsible for that score, but in minds of guys like Mike Ditka it is.

[Lonestar]

You must have watched because in game I watched the Bears blocked the punt and recovered the ball inside the 20, to be precise it was the 18 yard line. The offense took it the rest of way but it was set by Special Teams.

Now it may not be by your estimation that Special Teams responsible for that score, but in minds of guys like Mike Ditka it is.

You said the scored the points I said they did not they may have been responsible for them but they did not score them in fact. I'd say that our ST was repsobile for it..
4-15-CHI 41 (7:37) 10-T.Sauerbrun punts 31 yards to CHI 10, Center-83-M.Leach, downed by DEN-57-J.Beck. PENALTY on DEN, Illegal Formation, 5 yards, enforced at CHI 41 - No Play.

4-20-CHI 46 (7:25) 10-T.Sauerbrun punt is BLOCKED by 33-C.Tillman, Center-83-M.Leach, RECOVERED by CHI-36-B.McGowan at DEN 18. 36-B.McGowan to DEN 18 for no gain (51-J.Winborn).


Then their is the offensive one we gave them

(8:22) 30-M.Bell to DEN 29 for no gain (55-L.Briggs). FUMBLES (55-L.Briggs), RECOVERED by CHI-93-A.Ogunleye at DEN 30. 93-A.Ogunleye to DEN 16 for 14 yards (6-J.Cutler).


TX everyone that saw that game KNOWS we had them down by 14 points with SEVEN minutes and 14 Seconds to go.. all well after their ST teams scores..

OUR DEFENSES folded up, even Champ admited to their poor play in those last few minutes..

Did their ST cause them to be close in the game? Sure but it was the defense that quit on us..

[TXBRONC]

You said the scored the points I said they did not they may have been responsible for them but they did not score them in fact. I'd say that our ST was repsobile for it..
4-15-CHI 41 (7:37) 10-T.Sauerbrun punts 31 yards to CHI 10, Center-83-M.Leach, downed by DEN-57-J.Beck. PENALTY on DEN, Illegal Formation, 5 yards, enforced at CHI 41 - No Play.

4-20-CHI 46 (7:25) 10-T.Sauerbrun punt is BLOCKED by 33-C.Tillman, Center-83-M.Leach, RECOVERED by CHI-36-B.McGowan at DEN 18. 36-B.McGowan to DEN 18 for no gain (51-J.Winborn).


Then their is the offensive one we gave them

(8:22) 30-M.Bell to DEN 29 for no gain (55-L.Briggs). FUMBLES (55-L.Briggs), RECOVERED by CHI-93-A.Ogunleye at DEN 30. 93-A.Ogunleye to DEN 16 for 14 yards (6-J.Cutler).


TX everyone that saw that game KNOWS we had them down by 14 points with SEVEN minutes and 14 Seconds to go.. all well after their ST teams scores..

OUR DEFENSES folded up, even Champ admited to their poor play in those last few minutes..

Did their ST cause them to be close in the game? Sure but it was the defense that quit on us..

No I didn't. I said they got 21 points off of Special Teams play. As you said everyone that saw the knows this.

[Lonestar]

No I didn't. I said they got 21 points off of Special Teams play. As you said everyone that saw the knows this.

Show the money I did not see them..

[TXBRONC]

Show the money I did not see them..

Then get some prescription glasses then might be able to see. :D

[omac]

and for the next games ...

Go KC!

Go Denver!

What a week for the AFC West; all games seriously affect divisional standings.

[Lonestar]

Then get some prescription glasses then might be able to see. :D

got them see with 20-15 and I saw:
2-4-DEN 4 (5:31) 29-A.Peterson left tackle for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.


Unless he is now on ST that was an offensive touchdown.. He ran it in behind an offensive line..

Even got it on tape do you need a copy?

[TXBRONC]

got them see with 20-15 and I saw:
2-4-DEN 4 (5:31) 29-A.Peterson left tackle for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.


Unless he is now on ST that was an offensive touchdown.. He ran it in behind an offensive line..

Even got it on tape do you need a copy?

I have no need or desire for stuff I have the game recorded. I guess still missed the part where that touchdown was set up by a blocked punt. Oh by the way by the time it was recovered it was on 18 yard line. You do know that's called the red zone right?

Instead of being argumentative why don't you just let go.

By the way I didn't the Special Teams scored all three touch downs I said they were responsible for 21 point. End of discussion.

[Lonestar]

I have no need or desire for stuff I have the game recorded. I guess still missed the part where that touchdown was set up by a blocked punt. Oh by the way by the time it was recovered it was on 18 yard line. You do know that's called the red zone right?

Instead of being argumentative why don't you just let go.

By the way I didn't the Special Teams scored all three touch downs I said they were responsible for 21 point. End of discussion.

I read that they scored the 21 points.. Glad you finally got it right..

Could be the West Texas bad air.. It is incredible over here we get 9 inches of snow on FRI and SAT and the air today is thick enough to cut with a knife.

[TXBRONC]

I read that they scored the 21 points.. Glad you finally got it right..

Could be the West Texas bad air.. It is incredible over here we get 9 inches of snow on FRI and SAT and the air today is thick enough to cut with a knife.

I always had it right you seem to have reading problem.

Air here in Odessa is fine. Maybe the bad air in El Paso is causing you to have a comprehension problem?

[Tned]

I read that they scored the 21 points.. Glad you finally got it right..

Could be the West Texas bad air.. It is incredible over here we get 9 inches of snow on FRI and SAT and the air today is thick enough to cut with a knife.


I always had it right you seem to have reading problem.

Air here in Odessa is fine. Maybe the bad air in El Paso is causing you to have a comprehension problem?

Hmmmm, West Texas vs. El Paso, let's see.

Who has the most stunted trees...

Who has the driest, most cracked earth....

Who has the deer that most resemble small dogs....

What did I miss? ;)

[Lonestar]

Hmmmm, West Texas vs. El Paso, let's see.

Who has the most stunted trees...almost no trees at all

Who has the driest, most cracked earth.... Lots of beach no water

Who has the deer that most resemble small dogs....

What did I miss? ;)

Small deers would be eaten by the Mexicans, because there are a very few dogs south of the border..

The bottom of the rocky mountains divide the pass of the north. Elpaso del norte

Not much out here in WEST TEXAS but great Mexican food.. and at least one great mind..

[Ricky]

Reading through this thread has taught me that I have found a new home!

[Lonestar]

Reading through this thread has taught me that I have found a new home!

Welcome to the forum.. If you were at BM this place has alot more civilty to it.. Alot more positive posters instead of everyone must be fired threads.

[Ricky]

Welcome to the forum.. If you were at BM this place has alot more civilty to it.. Alot more positive posters instead of everyone must be fired threads.

I was a mod on the BF site. I had enough of the drama. Needed a site that talks Bronco football, has a little fun and everything does not revolve around sex.

[Tned]

Reading through this thread has taught me that I have found a new home!

Glad to hear it! The more the merrier. :D



Not much out here in WEST TEXAS but great Mexican food.. and at least one great mind..

I had Mole` (spelling) sauce for the first time in El Paso a few years back. Some mexican place I was told was supposed to be famous for something. Rose's or something like that. Can't quite remember what the name was. From what I saw, there was a Mexican restaraunt on every corner, which would work for me, since I like Mexican food.

[Lonestar]

Glad to hear it! The more the merrier. :D



I had Mole` (spelling) sauce for the first time in El Paso a few years back. Some mexican place I was told was supposed to be famous for something. Rose's or something like that. Can't quite remember what the name was. From what I saw, there was a Mexican restaraunt on every corner, which would work for me, since I like Mexican food.

Your correct THE Mexican food capitol of the world. Not true Mexico Mexican but food that most Americans eat.

I like the green chile flavored foods and we get the best chilies from a place called Hatch, NM about 60 miles from here.. Just north of Las Cruces..

One of the best ones Availas closed a few weeks ago after selling the corner property to Walgreens.

[broncosfanscott]

Reading through this thread has taught me that I have found a new home!

Glad you like it over here. I felt the same way after I began posting over here. Everyone is pretty cool. Have fun and enjoy posting. :salute:

[pnbronco]

Reading through this thread has taught me that I have found a new home!

Welcome Ricky, I totally understand how you feel. This is a great site, I have really enjoyed the members here. Look forward to your posts. :welcome: