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View Full Version : Rumor: Broncos may cut RB Knowshon Moreno



Magnificent Seven
02-17-2013, 04:47 PM
Straight out of the rumor mill comes word that the Denver Broncos may part ways with 25 year old running back Knowshon Moreno this spring.

http://broncotalk.net/2013/02/45038/broncos-buzz/buzz-will-broncos-cut-rb-knowshon-moreno/

SR
02-17-2013, 04:49 PM
Well after the performance he put on in Mcgahee's absence he's sure to land somewhere and I'm sure he'll find success.

BroncoWave
02-17-2013, 05:20 PM
Don't really get this move if it's true. Yeah he's had his injury problems but it's not like we're breaking the bank for him. Maybe they will try to restructure his deal.

topscribe
02-17-2013, 05:24 PM
That's the trouble with rumors. They're just rumors. The Broncos are hurting at
depth at RB, anyway. Cut Moreno and be left with an unproductive Ball, aging
McGahee, and underweight Hillman? Nope. Can't see it . . .
.

ShaneFalco
02-17-2013, 05:33 PM
He didn't last half a season. I like moreno but no point. Gotta make room for lacy

BroncoWave
02-17-2013, 06:02 PM
He didn't last half a season. I like moreno but no point. Gotta make room for lacy

Cutting a player to make room for someone who you don't even know will fall to you in the draft is beyond stupid.

gregbroncs
02-17-2013, 06:18 PM
I would be surprised if they cut him. But his injury history is very troubling. Has he ever made it through 8 games playing in a row without a serious injury?

Northman
02-17-2013, 06:42 PM
Showed some promise down the stretch but probably too little, too late. I wouldnt be surprised if they did cut him but as Top said until its actually done its just a rumor.

Poet
02-17-2013, 07:50 PM
I would be interested to see who his actual replacement was.

Timmy!
02-17-2013, 08:33 PM
Whats his cap # this year?

TXBRONC
02-17-2013, 08:38 PM
I wouldn't floored by the move but as it has been noted serveral times it just a rumor until the deed is actually done.

SR
02-17-2013, 08:40 PM
I actually hope he stays

TXBRONC
02-17-2013, 08:47 PM
I actually hope he stays

If he stays that's fine with me too but I wouldn't be to worried if Elway and Fox decide to go a different direction.

UnderArmour
02-17-2013, 08:48 PM
We have a first round talent in a contract year (whether he's underperformed or not). The Broncos would be stupid to cut him. Really, it just makes so much more sense to keep him on the roster. I would prefer to see us cut/restructure Joe Mays and DJ Williams instead to clear out the cap room.

TXBRONC
02-17-2013, 08:50 PM
Whats his cap # this year?

In the link provided it mentioned that his cap number is $3.28 million.

GEM
02-17-2013, 08:58 PM
If true, dumb move. Small cap #, decent performance down the stretch and pretty good heart to deal with demotion the way he did. And I am not even a fan of Knosho. No positives with the move.

Timmy!
02-17-2013, 09:22 PM
In the link provided it mentioned that his cap number is $3.28 million.

:lol: I was being lazy.

A little over 3 million....tough call. The Broncos have other players they could cut to create more cap space than Moreno. I'm not a big Moreno fan, but he did step up when McGahee went down, but him getting hurt in the playoff game really exposed our lack of RB depth....and his ability to get injured as usual. Is an injury prone RB with some talent worth 3 mil for lets say 8 games, or can the Broncos use that money on something else. Honestly, I'd be fine with it either way.

DenBronx
02-17-2013, 09:32 PM
If this rumor is true then it would be a dumb move by the Broncos. In fact this would be the first move by Elway where I would have to disagree with. Moreno took his benching early in the year like a champ, kept his head up, stayed out of trouble and when it was his time he came in a played at a high level. Lets face it, Lance Ball sucks and we are thin at this position if McGahee goes down. We need both McGahee and Moreno and would even be happy if we signed someone else. But getting rid of Moreno right now makes zero sense.

Superchop 7
02-17-2013, 09:35 PM
It would signal to me that they are interested in a high profile FA.

SR
02-17-2013, 09:41 PM
It would signal to me that they are interested in a high profile FA.

Explain

weazel
02-17-2013, 10:03 PM
they could trade him for a low end pick, why would they release him? rumor's are ghey

MOtorboat
02-17-2013, 10:06 PM
they could trade him for a low end pick, why would they release him? rumor's are ghey

Depends on when the bonus money is due to him, and the inevitability of the Broncos getting rid of him if they can't trade him. Say it's a March 1 deadline to pay him or release him, that would affect whether they could trade him or not.

It's likely he'd already have been cut if that's the case, but it's still something to think about.

DenBronx
02-17-2013, 10:08 PM
It would signal to me that they are interested in a high profile FA.


Who? Brandon Jacobs??? :laugh:

cmc0605
02-17-2013, 10:23 PM
The injury arguments are stupid. He was benched half a season for fumbling once and then played through the rest of the season injury-free when McGahee went down, sometimes getting 30 touches or so. He had a game-ending injury against Baltimore, nothing more. That can happen anytime you get hit the wrong way or land weird. People keep talking about that injury as though he missed a lot of time or as if it really mattered in the game or as if this continues to happen time after time in his four-year career. Talk about people who don't understand the concept of sample sizes. Matthew Stafford was said to be made of glass too because he got hurt two seasons in a row or something in a game that involves lots of contact, until he wasn't injured. Same with DT.

Guarantee if he goes on the market, front offices/coaches with half a brain (Patriots maybe) will jump on him, because he's been very productive. I really hope the Broncos coaching staff hasn't placed a "let him go" decision on some sort of pre-conceived religious faith about what Knowshon can do on the field, just as many fans did, against all contrary evidence.

Dapper Dan
02-17-2013, 11:08 PM
If he's cut, I hope he still has success somewhere else. Hopefully he stays. I wonder how our RBs will work. Will we keep Willis, Knowshon, Hillman, and player X? I doubt Knowshon wants to sit on the bench again until someone gets hurt. Are we just going to give each player about 10 touches a game?

MOtorboat
02-17-2013, 11:12 PM
If he's cut, I hope he still has success somewhere else. Hopefully he stays. I wonder how our RBs will work. Will we keep Willis, Knowshon, Hillman, and player X? I doubt Knowshon wants to sit on the bench again until someone gets hurt. Are we just going to give each player about 10 touches a game?

I doubt Denver does that. If anything, the end of the season proved that Fox is still somewhat old school in the idea that he wants a workhorse back to carry the load. Or maybe two, but I doubt he spreads touches across four guys.

I thought running back was a strength going into the offseason, personally, but there's been a lot of talk about it.

Simple Jaded
02-17-2013, 11:42 PM
Cutting a player to make room for someone who you don't even know will fall to you in the draft is beyond stupid.

Gotta make room for (fill in the blank, random RB who isn't a total glass vag).

Better?

Btw, Slowshon is not a "first round talent", he never was.......

Poet
02-18-2013, 12:05 AM
Moreno was a first round talent. He was going to go in the first round, since his junior year he was pegged as a first round player.

Magnificent Seven
02-18-2013, 12:08 AM
I would keep Moreno! Why? He JUMPED OVER Ed Reed at Baltimore!

On my other hand, I would cut McGahee and make room for Eddie Lacy... if he is available at 28th.

topscribe
02-18-2013, 12:16 AM
I would keep Moreno! Why? He JUMPED OVER Ed Reed at Baltimore!

On my other hand, I would cut McGahee and make room for Eddie Lacy... if he is available at 28th.
So you would cut McGahee and keep Ball?

Dapper Dan
02-18-2013, 12:29 AM
So you would cut McGahee and keep Ball?

I would cut Ball to make room for Ball.

sneakers
02-18-2013, 12:50 AM
We should start rumors about the broncos, and see if someone ends up making a thread about it a few days later.

Dapper Dan
02-18-2013, 01:22 AM
We should start rumors about the broncos, and see if someone ends up making a thread about it a few days later.

Any ideas?

Magnificent Seven
02-18-2013, 01:29 AM
So you would cut McGahee and keep Ball?

McGahee needs to look up at dictionary and read the definition of fumble. He kept fumbling over and over again. He couldn't get it in his mind. Ball didn't fumble often and he is probably the good third-down or change-of-pace back in the game. Moreover, McGahee is still dealing with his old knee injury. It would be super nice if Broncos have Eddie Lacy, Knowshon Moreno, Ronnie Hillman, and Lance Ball.

Simple Jaded
02-18-2013, 01:34 AM
Moreno was a first round talent. He was going to go in the first round, since his junior year he was pegged as a first round player.

Barkley was going 1st overall til people figured out that he's barely 6-1, slow and has marginal arm talent.

Moreno didn't have a single 1st round measurable, not one. He's slow, small, no power, no vision, average instincts and run skills. He's Kevin Faulk v2.0. All this at a time when teams have devalued RB's outta first round consideration, for the most part. Drafting him 12th overall was just obscenely stupid.......

Dapper Dan
02-18-2013, 02:01 AM
Knowshon in a first round mock.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2009.php

Another
http://www.draftking.com/nfl/2009/mockdraft.shtml

Another
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/nflmockdraft.html

Another
http://www.totalprosports.com/2009/04/14/2009-nfl-mock-draft-7/

Another
http://www.sportscity.com/nfl/mock-draft/2009-nfl-mock-draft/

I'm going to stop now.

Simple Jaded
02-18-2013, 02:08 AM
Never said people weren't projecting Slowshon in the 1st round, I said he's not a first round talent. He's not and he never was. He doesn't have a single first round trait.......

Northman
02-18-2013, 02:44 AM
If he stays that's fine with me too but I wouldn't be to worried Elway and Fox decide to go a different direction.

Pretty much how i see it. I have faith in the FO that they could get a replacement in here who can at the very least do what he did if not better.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-18-2013, 11:25 AM
I think the majority if his cap number is money that was already paid in the form of his signing bonus, so cutting him doesn't really help his cap number. I believe his actually salary this year is only around $1million, but I could be wrong. I don't believe cutting him makes any sense, competitively, or financially.

underrated29
02-18-2013, 11:28 AM
It's not happening. They did say this year is his last chance, but he will not be cut. The article is speculation by some guy. This holds as much water as bleacher report.

Buff
02-18-2013, 12:34 PM
He's very replaceable.

SR
02-18-2013, 12:36 PM
He's very replaceable.

Yes he is but the need to replace him isn't there

Buff
02-18-2013, 12:39 PM
Yes he is but the need to replace him isn't there

I'd probably disagree with that considering we ended the year with zero healthy backs and he has a history of injury problems now. I don't think anybody expects Hillman to step into the role - and I don't think anyone is 100% comfortable with a tandem of Moreno and McGahee - so I think RB is a need.

underrated29
02-18-2013, 12:42 PM
Well buff yes and no. We did finish with zero healthy backs but its not like knows on missed all year to injury or even a game for that matter. He missed two quarters of a game and had we won he would have started and played in

underrated29
02-18-2013, 12:42 PM
place of McGhee against ne

BroncoWave
02-18-2013, 01:49 PM
I'd probably disagree with that considering we ended the year with zero healthy backs and he has a history of injury problems now. I don't think anybody expects Hillman to step into the role - and I don't think anyone is 100% comfortable with a tandem of Moreno and McGahee - so I think RB is a need.

Which game did Moreno miss due to injury? I must have missed it. I'm not talking about games he left early. I'm talking about games missed.

SR
02-18-2013, 01:57 PM
place of McGhee against ne

You really suck at this posting thing

Dapper Dan
02-18-2013, 02:07 PM
You really suck at this posting thing

You know there's a lot worse. Haha.

Ravage!!!
02-18-2013, 02:27 PM
I wouldn't be shocked. Moreno missed games due to injury, he can't last but just a few games before being set out again...and when he FINALLY got his shot, he gets injured in the biggest game of the season when we needed the absolute most.

It's probably better for Moreno that we let him go, now. Why keep him when its obvious that he's NEVER going to be "the" back in Denver, and we already have a RB that will be able pick up the slack that is left when Knowshon goes.

If it comes down to signing a veteran, or some FA, do we think that we would get LESS production from another player? Eh..

I think it's one of those things that is a "if he leaves, ok... if he stays, ok." Its not a big loss by any means, just as he isn't some MAJOR keep.

BeefStew25
02-18-2013, 02:28 PM
I still have problems with black QB's and black RB's. I think Hester is our man.

cmc0605
02-18-2013, 02:53 PM
I still have problems with black QB's and black RB's. I think Hester is our man.

? Are you from the south?

cmc0605
02-18-2013, 02:55 PM
Which game did Moreno miss due to injury? I must have missed it. I'm not talking about games he left early. I'm talking about games missed.

People continue to make stuff up about Moreno. By saying it enough times, the hope is that the myths of him being an unproductive and injury-plagued bust will eventually be true.

BeefStew25
02-18-2013, 03:11 PM
? Are you from the south?

Are you a mouth breathing retard?

Magnificent Seven
02-18-2013, 03:51 PM
I think Moreno is a solid back up RB.

Tebowtime2011
02-18-2013, 05:39 PM
If it is true I kind of like this move, it shows that the broncos are finished with mediocrity.

BroncoWave
02-18-2013, 06:08 PM
If it is true I kind of like this move, it shows that the broncos are finished with mediocrity.

Name one team in NFL history that didn't have a single mediocre player on it's roster. Moreno is good enough to be a backup RB in the NFL. No need to cut him unless they have a solid replacement lined up.

Northman
02-18-2013, 06:15 PM
My guess is if the rumor is true they have someone they like or a player they plan on signing to replace him.

underrated29
02-18-2013, 06:19 PM
My guess is if the rumor is true they have someone they like or a player they plan on signing to replace him.



While I do t believe the rumor for one second, I do fully agree and think they do with the above. I just hope it's stewie. Maybe a trade w Carolina. One of their rbs, beason for something. We get the gimps with upside and they get something.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-18-2013, 06:33 PM
Dumping Moreno doesn't help at all. His salary this year is dirt cheap. If his cap number is high it's due to money he's already been paid. Cutting him would put us in the position of being on the hook for the majority of the cap number anyway.

He's an excellent 3rd down back, the speculation seems silly to me.

BroncoJoe
02-18-2013, 07:16 PM
What does Peyton think about this?

qPUaXhPEuCo

BroncoWave
02-18-2013, 07:17 PM
What does Peyton think about this?

qPUaXhPEuCo

I think unless we would be strongly upgrading the position, Peyton would rather keep someone around who already knows the offense.

BroncoJoe
02-18-2013, 07:19 PM
I think unless we would be strongly upgrading the position, Peyton would rather keep someone around who already knows the offense.

Loosen up, dude.

BroncoWave
02-18-2013, 07:21 PM
Loosen up, dude.

:lol: I think you need to loosen up. I realize your post was in humor, I was simply responding in case you were insinuating that Manning might want him gone.

BeefStew25
02-18-2013, 07:38 PM
Just calm down BTB.

BroncoJoe
02-18-2013, 07:38 PM
Just calm down BTB.

He seems a bit more uppity than usual, Beef. I think he needs a little stew to calm him down.

BeefStew25
02-18-2013, 07:41 PM
Maybe he should do a mock draft for us. BTB, knock one out. I did mine a couple weeks ago.

BroncoWave
02-18-2013, 07:43 PM
:lol: Where was I uppity in this thread? You guys are a riot!

BroncoJoe
02-18-2013, 07:47 PM
Maybe he should do a mock draft for us. BTB, knock one out. I did mine a couple weeks ago.

I think that's an excellent therapeutic suggestion, Beef.

BroncoWave
02-18-2013, 07:49 PM
I would be throwing darts at a board for a mock draft I'm afraid. I haven't really watched a whole lot of college football the past few seasons.

ShaneFalco
02-18-2013, 09:05 PM
i wish our rb lineup was this

1. Lacy
2.Moreno
3. Hillman
4. Oman

Slick
02-18-2013, 10:09 PM
I don't understand U29's infatuation with Jonathan Stewart.

Jsteve01
02-18-2013, 10:51 PM
yeah he just threw beason's name out there to put us off the scent, but we all know he loves him some "Stewie".

Simple Jaded
02-18-2013, 11:07 PM
What's not to love about J-Stew? His first round talent?.......

Dapper Dan
02-18-2013, 11:24 PM
Name one team in NFL history that didn't have a single mediocre player on it's roster. Moreno is good enough to be a backup RB in the NFL. No need to cut him unless they have a solid replacement lined up.

I think there's been several times the Raiders were all below mediocre.

MOtorboat
02-18-2013, 11:29 PM
What's not to love about J-Stew? His first round talent?.......

The best part of the obsession about Stewart is that his production is only slightly better than Moreno's...

Same injury questions...less of an ability to catch balls out of the backfield...

Plus his play has declined every single year.

dogfish
02-18-2013, 11:41 PM
I don't understand U29's infatuation with Jonathan Stewart.

yea, but what about U29 do you understand?

:laugh:

underrated29
02-19-2013, 12:21 AM
Because he is a damn beast. A fast beast too. A different team or being on a team that runs to the rbs and not the qb and not like 4 different rbs. He could be great. Its th system boys. Do you really think alf is better than Stewart? I do not.

Dapper Dan
02-19-2013, 12:50 AM
Our issue at RB is having a solid #1 back. One that doesn't fumble or get injured. I don't see how getting Stewart would fix that. I don't think that him maybe being a beast in our system is enough. He may also get hurt as well.

CrazyHorse
02-19-2013, 02:22 AM
Why wouldn't we cut Balls off our team instead?

topscribe
02-19-2013, 12:59 PM
Because he is a damn beast. A fast beast too. A different team or being on a team that runs to the rbs and not the qb and not like 4 different rbs. He could be great. Its th system boys. Do you really think alf is better than Stewart? I do not.
I've been a Stewart fan since his college days. I'd like to see what he could do for the Broncos . . .
.

underrated29
02-19-2013, 01:05 PM
I've been a Stewart fan since his college days. I'd like to see what he could do for the Broncos . . .
.


Me too, but his best fit would be with shanny in washington or kubes in houston. Neither team will trade for him so it wont ever happen though.

Northman
02-19-2013, 01:07 PM
Why wouldn't we cut Balls off our team instead?


Could be a lot of varying reasons. Both Ball and Knowmo over their respective careers have similar numbers. Not sure how they measure up injury wise but i dont recall Balls being injured a lot. Of course, that could have to do with his lack of playing time. Furthermore, Lance could still get cut but at a later date but from a financial standpoint Balls is cheaper to keep than Moreno.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-19-2013, 04:36 PM
Why wouldn't we cut Balls off our team instead?

IMHO, turning the entire team into a group of eunuchs is a very shocking suggestion.

MOtorboat
02-19-2013, 06:05 PM
Could be a lot of varying reasons. Both Ball and Knowmo over their respective careers have similar numbers. Not sure how they measure up injury wise but i dont recall Balls being injured a lot. Of course, that could have to do with his lack of playing time. Furthermore, Lance could still get cut but at a later date but from a financial standpoint Balls is cheaper to keep than Moreno.

No they don't. Not even close.

Buff
02-19-2013, 06:12 PM
Why wouldn't we cut Balls off our team instead?

Ball plays special teams.

I am not really making a case for cutting Moreno... Seems like we should keep him until we know what out Plan B is going to look like. But it wouldn't shock me. It's not ideal to have 2 guys with reconstructive knees as your top 2 RBs.

weazel
02-19-2013, 06:13 PM
I am going to start a rumor that the Broncos are looking at bringing back Glyn Milburn. I hope it gains traction

Northman
02-19-2013, 06:27 PM
No they don't. Not even close.

I should of clarified. I meant over the last two years.

NightTerror218
02-19-2013, 06:43 PM
interesting prospect could be released.....Vonte Leach from the Ravens. he could be releases to open up cap space for flacco, reed and other players. He could also restructure but he is one of the best full backs and great blocker. I would take him.

dogfish
02-19-2013, 07:01 PM
interesting prospect could be released.....Vonte Leach from the Ravens. he could be releases to open up cap space for flacco, reed and other players. He could also restructure but he is one of the best full backs and great blocker. I would take him.

so would i, in a heartbeat-- doubt the broncos would have any interest at all, though, he isn't anything close to a system fit. . . we don't even use a fullback. . .

topscribe
02-19-2013, 07:11 PM
so would i, in a heartbeat-- doubt the broncos would have any interest at all, though, he isn't anything close to a system fit. . . we don't even use a fullback. . .
Yes, I would really be surprised. They now have Hester, who is a short-yardage
bruiser at RB and can slide over to FB in the few times the Broncos need one.
They have even effectively brought Mitch Unrein over from the other side. So
I don't see them taking up a roster space for a dedicated FB. In fact, I look for
Gronkowski to make his exit this year . . .
.

topscribe
02-19-2013, 07:13 PM
Ball plays special teams.

I am not really making a case for cutting Moreno... Seems like we should keep him until we know what out Plan B is going to look like. But it wouldn't shock me. It's not ideal to have 2 guys with reconstructive knees as your top 2 RBs.
As the Vikings can attest . . .
.

Simple Jaded
02-20-2013, 12:38 AM
The best part of the obsession about Stewart is that his production is only slightly better than Moreno's...

Same injury questions...less of an ability to catch balls out of the backfield...

Plus his play has declined every single year.

Stewart is playing behind a legit RB. What's Moreno's excuse? He lost his starting job to the 30- something brought in to be his backup.

Not even remotely close in ability though. If they were both free agents there isn't a team in the league who'd rather have Moreno over Stewart.......

MOtorboat
02-20-2013, 01:06 AM
Stewart is playing behind a legit RB. What's Moreno's excuse? He lost his starting job to the 30- something brought in to be his backup.

Not even remotely close in ability though. If they were both free agents there isn't a team in the league who'd rather have Moreno over Stewart.......

McGahee is not a legit running back?

Production over the last three years:
McGahee 2300 yards, 14 TDs
Williams 1900 yards, 13 TDs

So, who's playing behind the better back, Moreno or Stewart?

BTW, last three years:
Stewart: 1860 yards, 7 TDs
Moreno: 1400 yards, 9 TDs

MOtorboat
02-20-2013, 01:13 AM
Now, if we expand that look into total yards/TDs (a more realistic look at today's NFL) Stewart has 2500 yards and 10 TDs, while Moreno has 2100 yards and 13 TDs.

Likewise, McGahee has 2600 yards and 15 TDs, while Williams has 2300 yards and 15 TDs.

Facts don't support the argument that Williams and Stewart are a slam dunk upgrade over McGahee and Moreno.

Mike
02-20-2013, 10:06 AM
I don't really care to get Steward, but I know that Denver cannot count on Moreno or McGahee. RB is a legitimate need and concern for Denver.

TXBRONC
02-20-2013, 11:42 AM
I don't really care to get Steward, but I know that Denver cannot count on Moreno or McGahee. RB is a legitimate need and concern for Denver.

We would have to trade for Stewart and I just don't see that happening. Williams is the one that will be a free agent but getting him means getting another back who as a long history missing time because he gets to nicked up to play.

MOtorboat
02-20-2013, 12:10 PM
We would have to trade for Stewart and I just don't see that happening. Williams is the one that will be a free agent but getting him means getting another back who as a long history missing time because he gets to nicked up to play.

I thought Williams signed a four year, $44 million contract last year.

TXBRONC
02-20-2013, 12:28 PM
I thought Williams signed a four year, $44 million contract last year.


Edit: It was Williams that was that signed a new deal last year.

Anyway I don't see Denver trying to get either one of them.

MOtorboat
02-20-2013, 12:42 PM
Edit: It was Williams that was that signed a new deal last year.

Anyway I don't see Denver trying to get either one of them.

Just read an article at NFL.com that said he has an $8 million cap hit and could be cut. I think that's unlikely, but it could happen.

I'm not as enamoured with Williams (and definitely not Stewart) as some are. I think we have an adequate backfield now.

turftoad
02-20-2013, 12:43 PM
Edit: It was Williams that was that signed a new deal last year.

Anyway I don't see Denver trying to get either one of them.

Stewart just restructured also. Like a week or two ago. Reduced his salary.

Lancane
02-20-2013, 01:09 PM
Moreno is due 3 million this year and about 2.5 million in 2014, but he plays as though he's worth the league minimum. If he was a wide receiver then I could see the value he brings, but he always seems to have a game or two and then suddenly is nowhere to be seen. McGahee is the nearest tailback to those that we once had: Terrell Davis, Clinton Portis or Mike Anderson, and he's getting long in the tooth. Moreno has had four seasons to prove himself, he's not even been healthy a whole season give his freshman year and even then he did not break 1000 yards rushing as the primary back. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we cut him, Denver will likely sign a veteran and draft a tailback early in which case Moreno would be gone anyways.

TXBRONC
02-20-2013, 01:20 PM
Moreno is due 3 million this year and about 2.5 million in 2014, but he plays as though he's worth the league minimum. If he was a wide receiver then I could see the value he brings, but he always seems to have a game or two and then suddenly is nowhere to be seen. McGahee is the nearest tailback to those that we once had: Terrell Davis, Clinton Portis or Mike Anderson, and he's getting long in the tooth. Moreno has had four seasons to prove himself, he's not even been healthy a whole season give his freshman year and even then he did not break 1000 yards rushing as the primary back. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we cut him, Denver will likely sign a veteran and draft a tailback early in which case Moreno would be gone anyways.

I agree it's possible Moreno gets cut but what he did down the stretch may be his saving grace. Even so, I wont be surprised if Elway drafts a running back maybe even two.

Lancane
02-20-2013, 01:27 PM
I agree it's possible Moreno gets cut but what he did down the stretch may be his saving grace. Even so, I wont be surprised if Elway drafts a running back maybe even two.

That's possible, and from that standpoint I wouldn't be surprised. He's costing the team a lot less then Joe Mays and D.J. Williams which would cost Denver about 11 million together. And I see Denver drafting a tailback, but I hope to God not two, especially after drafting Hillman last year.

Northman
02-20-2013, 01:37 PM
I agree it's possible Moreno gets cut but what he did down the stretch may be his saving grace. Even so, I wont be surprised if Elway drafts a running back maybe even two.

I agree. But i think also they may be looking at it as a consistency issue. If the rumor is already coming out it only leads me to believe they dont think he can keep it up longterm.

BroncoWave
02-20-2013, 01:39 PM
If the rumor is already coming out it only leads me to believe they dont think he can keep it up longterm.

You're assuming this rumor has any merit.

Chef Zambini
02-20-2013, 02:08 PM
I agree. But i think also they may be looking at it as a consistency issue. If the rumor is already coming out it only leads me to believe they dont think he can keep it up longterm.thats what the viagra is for.
back to hillman.
he needs to improve his blocking and his contributions in the passing attack, that may happen in the off season.
nobody should be bad mouthing willy mac, he was the workhorse on the team called the broncos!
Moreno?
he had his best year, last year, afer knee surgery, surprised the hell out of me.
I was urprized we kept him on the roster and I was surprised by his contributions!
I gotta figure the broncos, JFE know best.
we will never have another TD, but another mike anderson sure would be nice !

HORSEPOWER 56
02-20-2013, 07:59 PM
I understand that everyone has an opinion about Moreno, but lets be honest here... BOLD PREDICTION: the only Broncos I can see being completely "safe" from being released are named Manning, Miller, and Clady. Everyone else (yes, and it pains me to say it but even Champ and Doom) is susceptible to be released as a cap casualty or based on production. Stranger things have happened. This article is much ado about nothing. Every player on every roster, outside of a core of about 5 players per team, is susceptible to cuts and trades.

If it's me, I cut McGahee. He costs more, he fumbles more, and he's older/just as injury prone. But that just my opinion.

BroncoWave
02-20-2013, 08:06 PM
I understand that everyone has an opinion about Moreno, but lets be honest here... BOLD PREDICTION: the only Broncos I can see being completely "safe" from being released are named Manning, Miller, and Clady. Everyone else (yes, and it pains me to say it but even Champ and Doom) is susceptible to be released as a cap casualty or based on production. Stranger things have happened. This article is much ado about nothing. Every player on every roster, outside of a core of about 5 players per team, is susceptible to cuts and trades.

If it's me, I cut McGahee. He costs more, he fumbles more, and he's older/just as injury prone. But that just my opinion.

So Thomas or Decker could get cut in your opinion? I would find that pretty unlikely.

NightTerror218
02-20-2013, 08:38 PM
trade him to Detroit for a pick, they need RBs.

underrated29
02-21-2013, 01:44 AM
trade him to Detroit for a pick, they need RBs.



He would actually do really well there IMO. Really well!

Poet
02-21-2013, 05:49 PM
He would actually do really well there IMO. Really well!

That porous line would get him killed.

Simple Jaded
02-21-2013, 09:18 PM
The only way Moreno is playing for another team is if he's released. There isn't much trade value in a glass vag going into the final year of his contract.......

Lancane
02-21-2013, 09:22 PM
The only way Moreno is playing for another team is if he's released. There isn't much trade value in a glass vag going into the final year of his contract.......

Which is a possibility with his overall lack of production, especially considering that the money due to him is not large compared to some of today's contracts, that 2 million could go to a proven veteran or a top-tier draftee who would be far more productive.

Dapper Dan
02-21-2013, 09:24 PM
I don't remember Moreno being a glass Vag during the win streak. I guess that's what one loss does.

Simple Jaded
02-21-2013, 10:11 PM
I don't remember Moreno being a glass Vag during the win streak. I guess that's what one loss does.

Weak. Dude lasts a few games without needing surgery and I'm supposed to pretend his glass vag only showed up in that one loss?.......

MOtorboat
02-21-2013, 10:11 PM
Weak. Dude lasts a few games without needing surgery and I'm supposed to pretend his glass vag only showed up in that one loss?.......

This is the perfect example of ignorance.

Obviously, you have a pre-disposed opinion, and nothing is going to change that. That's ignorance.

Lancane
02-21-2013, 10:14 PM
I don't remember Moreno being a glass Vag during the win streak. I guess that's what one loss does.

Again, that's normal for Moreno, two maybe three alright games and then suddenly *poof* injury or *poof* can not find the hole, even though everyone else seems able to.

MOtorboat
02-21-2013, 10:16 PM
Again, that's normal for Moreno, two maybe three alright games and then suddenly *poof* injury or *poof* can not find the hole, even though everyone else seems able to.

How in the world did he manage to go six games then?

What happened this season (and what's happened previously) doesn't support these opinions.

MOtorboat
02-21-2013, 10:17 PM
3,000 yards and 22 touchdowns in the equivalent of less than three seasons of games (four seasons total actual time)...

I just can't believe people hate this guy that much. It's so irrational.

MOtorboat
02-21-2013, 10:22 PM
The only skill position player that can remotely compete in scoring production in the last four years is Eric Decker, who has the same number of touchdowns as Moreno.

Boggles my mind the hate this guy gets.

Simple Jaded
02-21-2013, 10:23 PM
Same thing with Tebow, I don't hate Slowshon Moreno. He's a solid backup RB in the right system.......

Lancane
02-21-2013, 10:27 PM
3,000 yards and 22 touchdowns in the equivalent of less than three seasons of games (four seasons total actual time)...

I just can't believe people hate this guy that much. It's so irrational.

I don't have a pre-disposed opinion MO, I was all for Denver drafting Moreno...but I also am smart enough to know that he doesn't fit the system and has struggled under McDaniels and Fox...not to mention has had far too many injuries, he'd have been a quality running back in Houston or Washington. But if we're being honest, he is a better receiver then a running back and that is not what Denver needs. Unless Denver plans to start McGahee, have another tailback backup McGahee, utilize Hillman on passing downs and as a change of pace, where does Moreno fit in? Denver can ill afford to have the same or worse (that Moreno and McGahee are both injured early in the season) happen.

Nor do I hate him MO, I've never said that...I just don't see how he fits when Denver has a need for a better back...no one in the right mind would keep Moreno over McGahee, and I don't believe Denver can do without drafting a primary back, and those capable from free agency are near as old as McGahee and would cost just as much. If Denver plans to have four tailbacks and utilize him on passing plays, etc. then I see the value in keeping him.

Simple Jaded
02-21-2013, 10:27 PM
This is the perfect example of ignorance.

Obviously, you have a pre-disposed opinion, and nothing is going to change that. That's ignorance.

If you say so. l think pretending he's not a constant injury concern is ignorant.......

Dapper Dan
02-21-2013, 10:30 PM
The only skill position player that can remotely compete in scoring production in the last four years is Eric Decker, who has the same number of touchdowns as Moreno.

Boggles my mind the hate this guy gets.

It's simply the persona or reputation of someone. That's about it. Like with Decker. A lot of people here and there imply that he's a vag because of that one slide, even though he's taken tons of hits and hung on to the ball. If DT gets hurt next season, everyone will give up on him. That's just the way it goes.

MOtorboat
02-21-2013, 10:31 PM
I don't hate him MO, I've never said that...I just don't see how he fits when Denver has a need for a better back...no one in the right mind would keep Moreno over McGahee, and I don't believe Denver can do without drafting a primary back, and those capable from free agency are near as old as McGahee and would cost just as much. If Denver plans to have four tailbacks and utilize him on passing plays, etc. then I see the value in keeping him.

It's not an either or discussion.

I just don't understand why its such a need when the team has nearly 2000 yards of production (from last season) signed and ready to go.

Dapper Dan
02-21-2013, 10:41 PM
In 4 seasons with Denver, Knowshon has 7 fumbles. In 2 seasons with Denver, Willis has 8 fumbles.

I'm hoping McGahee doesn't fumble as much next season.

turftoad
02-21-2013, 10:42 PM
In 4 seasons with Denver, Knowshon has 7 fumbles. In 2 seasons with Denver, Willis has 8 fumbles.

I'm hoping McGahee doesn't fumble as much next season.

McGahee won't be here next year.

underrated29
02-21-2013, 10:44 PM
LAN, knowshon is perfect for this scheme. 100% perfect. And now that all world McCoy is gone we will likely call some screens to the fb making him all the more perfect for us. Sorry dude. Can't buy the improper system fit with us with manning.

Guy is good for over 100 total yards every game he starts. That's great stats for any skill player. Wr, te, rb, kr, pr, etc.

His last chance will be this year. If he hurts his vag again he is gone. If not he has more than shown capable of being a guy we need. If fox thinks hillman can be an every down back as he said today, then sure as shit knowshon could be.

MOtorboat
02-21-2013, 10:46 PM
In 4 seasons with Denver, Knowshon has 7 fumbles. In 2 seasons with Denver, Willis has 8 fumbles.

I'm hoping McGahee doesn't fumble as much next season.

Yet, commonly, on this board, people complain more about Moreno's fumbling than McGahee's...

Buff
02-21-2013, 10:52 PM
In 4 seasons with Denver, Knowshon has 7 fumbles. In 2 seasons with Denver, Willis has 8 fumbles.

I'm hoping McGahee doesn't fumble as much next season.

Of all the improvements he showed, I was actually most impressed by Knowshon's ball security this year. And of all the regressions, McGahee's ball security was the most alarming.

I'll still take Willis over Knowshon every time though.

BroncoWave
02-21-2013, 10:58 PM
Of all the improvements he showed, I was actually most impressed by Knowshon's ball security this year. And of all the regressions, McGahee's ball security was the most alarming.

I'll still take Willis over Knowshon every time though.

Yeah, if I can take an old, past his prime RB over a young guy who has shown promise and doesn't have many miles on his legs, I would totally do that in a heartbeat. Makes complete sense!

Lancane
02-21-2013, 11:02 PM
LAN, knowshon is perfect for this scheme. 100% perfect. And now that all world McCoy is gone we will likely call some screens to the fb making him all the more perfect for us. Sorry dude. Can't buy the improper system fit with us with manning.

Guy is good for over 100 total yards every game he starts. That's great stats for any skill player. Wr, te, rb, kr, pr, etc.

His last chance will be this year. If he hurts his vag again he is gone. If not he has more than shown capable of being a guy we need. If fox thinks hillman can be an every down back as he said today, then sure as shit knowshon could be.

Really, we use a Zone Blocking Scheme which Moreno had during his time in Georgia? That went out the window with McDaniels and has remained pretty much a distant memory. So how does he fit our system, we utilize a man-to-man power blocking scheme and some zone, but not enough to make him effective as say McGahee.

As for him being good for 100 yards a game, that is utter bull****, he had only two 100 yard games this season, zero in 2011, two in 2010 and zero in 2009 and he was the primary back that season. So out of his 44 starts he's had four 100 yard games...so much for that argument. What's next, that he's due to break out? Terrell Davis said that last year, soon after Moreno lost the starting job to McGahee.

Name another first round running back that was given four years to prove his worth? By now we'd have seen the potential to be a primary tailback...I like Moreno, I think he could be more in the right system, but Denver needs a Marshall Faulk clone, even a younger Willis McGahee would work.

BroncoWave
02-21-2013, 11:05 PM
Really, we use a Zone Blocking Scheme which Moreno had during his time in Georgia? That went out the window with McDaniels and has remained pretty much a distant memory. So how does he fit our system, we utilize a man-to-man power blocking scheme and some zone, but not enough to make him effective as say McGahee.

As for him being good for 100 yards a game, that is utter bull****, he had only two 100 yard games this season, zero in 2011, two in 2010 and zero in 2009 and he was the primary back that season. So out of his 44 starts he's had four 100 yard games...so much for that argument. What's next, that he's due to break out? Terrell Davis said that last year, soon after Moreno lost the starting job to McGahee.

Name another first round running back that was given four years to prove his worth? By now we'd have seen the potential to be a primary tailback...I like Moreno, I think he could be more in the right system, but Denver needs a Marshall Faulk clone, even a younger Willis McGahee would work.

He said 100 total yards, not 100 rushing yards. He had 4 such games in 6 starts this season.

Lancane
02-21-2013, 11:10 PM
Yeah, if I can take an old, past his prime RB over a young guy who has shown promise and doesn't have many miles on his legs, I would totally do that in a heartbeat. Makes complete sense!

Moreno had two 100 yard games in the past two seasons to McGahee's ten...I guess production is overrated. Personally, Denver needs a back that is better then both at this point, but stating that Moreno has shown promise? A first round tailback with that little of overall production? That's not promise BB, that delusion. As much as I like him, I have to be honest, I don't know if either can be a workhorse or primary at this point, but McGahee is nearer to being such at this time.

Lancane
02-21-2013, 11:12 PM
He said 100 total yards, not 100 rushing yards. He had 4 such games in 6 starts this season.

Oh, my bad...I admit, Moreno is probably one of the best receiving tailbacks in the league, once he catches the ball he is dangerous....but Denver needs a running back. It's too bad that NFL teams aren't more risk-taking then collegiate teams, IMO Moreno could be a dangerous slot receiver.

Dapper Dan
02-21-2013, 11:17 PM
We pass it to our RBs a lot. And we don't have to put them in the slot, we use them out of the backfield.

Dzone
02-21-2013, 11:19 PM
I went from disliking Knowshon to a Knowshon fan over last season. He proved he is a man of character, dedication and class by the way he handled his demotion to scout team. He came back and played with reckless abandon. Improved in every area of the game through shear dedication. Damn, I hope we can keep him. If he can put on 10 more pounds of muscle he could be a battering ram. But he might cost too much. Will be sad to see him go. Will suck if he goes afcwest, which will probably happen...

Lancane
02-21-2013, 11:24 PM
We pass it to our RBs a lot. And we don't have to put them in the slot, we use them out of the backfield.

DB, that would be great and dandy, but the reason we lost to Baltimore was because we couldn't grind out the clock on the ground...having a back that can catch out of the backfield is a luxury for a team who can not establish the run and do so effectively. If Denver had Arian Foster for example instead of McGahee, then I'd say keeping Moreno is a more then likely, but if Denver gets rid of McGahee who is more effective on the ground and Moreno who is more effective in the passing game, we could be in the same position if Hillman is no further along...or else Denver will have to keep four backs on the roster. If Denver signs a Free Agent, they'll need a spot, same with drafting someone, and what if they're no better, which is possible. Do you think that Denver can afford to enter the 2013 Season with McGahee, Moreno and Hillman as their only backs?

Dapper Dan
02-21-2013, 11:29 PM
I went from disliking Knowshon to a Knowshon fan over last season. He proved he is a man of character, dedication and class by the way he handled his demotion to scout team. He came back and played with reckless abandon. Improved in every area of the game through shear dedication. Damn, I hope we can keep him. If he can put on 10 more pounds of muscle he could be a battering ram. But he might cost too much. Will be sad to see him go. Will suck if he goes afcwest, which will probably happen...

You remind me of JR (Jim Ross) on rasslin.

Dapper Dan
02-21-2013, 11:33 PM
DB, that would be great and dandy, but the reason we lost to Baltimore was because we couldn't grind out the clock on the ground...having a back that can catch out of the backfield is a luxury for a team who can not establish the run and do so effectively. If Denver had Arian Foster for example instead of McGahee, then I'd say keeping Moreno is a more then likely, but if Denver gets rid of McGahee who is more effective on the ground and Moreno who is more effective in the passing game, we could be in the same position if Hillman is no further along...or else Denver will have to keep four backs on the roster. If Denver signs a Free Agent, they'll need a spot, same with drafting someone, and what if they're no better, which is possible. Do you think that Denver can afford to enter the 2013 Season with McGahee, Moreno and Hillman as their only backs?

Yes. But I'm hoping we draft a big bruiser to replace McGahee. But if we can't find the right guy in the right spot, it won't happen. I agree that I'm not so sure where all the RBs will fit in, but I don't think Moreno is bad enough to just cut loose. I think he's still a good back and could break loose. He just needs one year, in my opinion. If he doesn't produce enough next season, he will be gone before the season is over.

Buff
02-21-2013, 11:35 PM
Yeah, if I can take an old, past his prime RB over a young guy who has shown promise and doesn't have many miles on his legs, I would totally do that in a heartbeat. Makes complete sense!

Yeah, but McGahee is better at, you know, running with the football.

BroncoWave
02-21-2013, 11:37 PM
Yeah, but McGahee is better at, you know, running with the football.

Barely. Moreno is a better pass catcher and fumbles less. And he's younger. They both have extensive injury histories. I find it laughable to want to keep Willis over Moreno at this point.

Lancane
02-21-2013, 11:37 PM
Yes. But I'm hoping we draft a big bruiser to replace McGahee. But if we can't find the right guy in the right spot, it won't happen. I agree that I'm not so sure where all the RBs will fit in, but I don't think Moreno is bad enough to just cut loose. I think he's still a good back and could break loose. He just needs one year, in my opinion. If he doesn't produce enough next season, he will be gone before the season is over.

Question is are the Broncos going to be willing to keep Moreno (lack of ground production) instead of McGahee (who was a Pro-Bowl selection the year before)? Do they see it as you do and MO, or as I Zone see it? Remember Elway had Davis who while somewhat effective in the passing game was lights out on the ground, what will he be looking at and who does he believe will fit better and help the team more to get to the Super Bowl?

Dapper Dan
02-21-2013, 11:47 PM
Question is are the Broncos going to be willing to keep Moreno (lack of ground production) instead of McGahee (who was a Pro-Bowl selection the year before)? Do they see it as you do and MO, or as I Zone see it? Remember Elway had Davis who while somewhat effective in the passing game was lights out on the ground, what will he be looking at and who does he believe will fit better and help the team more to get to the Super Bowl?

It's hard to say if Elway shoots for a 1998 team because we're so different. No zone blocking. We have more of a spread, pass happy, no huddle offense. We do need a good between the tackles back, but I'm worried if a 31 year old McGahee can make it. Maybe if Moreno takes some reps away. Idk.

Simple Jaded
02-21-2013, 11:52 PM
Barely. Moreno is a better pass catcher and fumbles less. And he's younger. They both have extensive injury histories. I find it laughable to want to keep Willis over Moreno at this point.

Barely? I would say Moreno's superior receiving skills are far more representative of the word "barely". Moreno can't touch McGahee in run skills, even at McGahee's age.......

Buff
02-21-2013, 11:59 PM
Barely. Moreno is a better pass catcher and fumbles less. And he's younger. They both have extensive injury histories. I find it laughable to want to keep Willis over Moreno at this point.

Well I find it laughable that you find it laughable. McGahee has been ahead of Moreno on the depth chart the entire time he's been here. Moreno is who he is. He's not a 2nd year pro burgeoning with potential - he's a 5th year back who never reached his full potential. They both have reconstructed knees. I don't really think either is the RB of the future for us, so give me the more proven commodity in the meantime.

underrated29
02-22-2013, 12:11 AM
Really, we use a Zone Blocking Scheme which Moreno had during his time in Georgia? That went out the window with McDaniels and has remained pretty much a distant memory. So how does he fit our system, we utilize a man-to-man power blocking scheme and some zone, but not enough to make him effective as say McGahee.

As for him being good for 100 yards a game, that is utter bull****, he had only two 100 yard games this season, zero in 2011, two in 2010 and zero in 2009 and he was the primary back that season. So out of his 44 starts he's had four 100 yard games...so much for that argument. What's next, that he's due to break out? Terrell Davis said that last year, soon after Moreno lost the starting job to McGahee.

Name another first round running back that was given four years to prove his worth? By now we'd have seen the potential to be a primary tailback...I like Moreno, I think he could be more in the right system, but Denver needs a Marshall Faulk clone, even a younger Willis McGahee would work.




Ugh..... W used a power man scheme with mcdaniels, now we use a little of both zone and man. Fox is the one that brought the zone back....not sure what you are thinking here.

Next, please read what I said. I said he goes over 100 TOTAL yards almost every game he plays he in. I don't give a what what anyone thinks or what kind of excuses they want to make for it. 100 yards is 100 yards. Weather it's catching a dump pass a route, a run, a pitch, a shovel whatever. Knowshon does it and people constantly make an excuse for it or about it.

Which brings me to the point of him being perfect for our scheme. So not only did you get the blocking mixed up, and mis read about his total yards, but your stance on not a right fit is out the window too. Remember edgerrin James, Joseph addai ? Those guys caught NUMEROUS passes, dumps and screens, from who? PFM!!!! Our qb.


You mention Marshall Faulk, obviously every team could use one of him but tell me LAN, which rb on our team most closely resembles Faulk?

Mcgahee? Not a chance, he's stronger, but not as agile and not nearly as adept at catching.
Hillman? Not a chance, he fast enought and shifty enough, but no where near the power and strength or pass pro
Knowshon- can catch as well, can be shifty and make people miss, has some power but not near as much as Faulk, not the speed at all.

Hester- lol, don't think we need to go there.


The answer is knowshon. He's in the right scheme, he balked out in this scheme and he missed 2 quarters this year of a game to injury. Sorry buddy. Knowshon has done everything asked of him and done it well...IE. hold onto the ball, play ps for half a year, pass pro, run for us, be a lead back for us, catch for us, and leap tall safeties in a single bound. All he has left to prove is that he will not get tweaked up. I think that more than qualifies him to stick around another year.

underrated29
02-22-2013, 12:13 AM
Question is are the Broncos going to be willing to keep Moreno (lack of ground production) instead of McGahee (who was a Pro-Bowl selection the year before)? Do they see it as you do and MO, or as I Zone see it? Remember Elway had Davis who while somewhat effective in the passing game was lights out on the ground, what will he be looking at and who does he believe will fit better and help the team more to get to the Super Bowl?




This I definitely agree with and would like and expect to see us add a more powerful back in the Td mold.

MOtorboat
02-22-2013, 12:14 AM
Still not a question of either, or.

Denver is just fine with both.

topscribe
02-22-2013, 12:19 AM
According to Bill Will's information (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/55096/getting-alex-smith-may-require-trade), the FO is counting on Moreno's being ready by training camp.

I'm not getting the impression the Broncos are thinking about dumping Moreno . . .
.

underrated29
02-22-2013, 12:19 AM
I was just thinking about what FA rbs there might be as I have a feeling we don't take one early this year and the rb pool doesn't seem to be all that great.

What's up with mendenhall anyone know? I he Ufa, Rfa, hurt or otherwise. I remember you were real high on I'm LAN when he came out. And he is a back with power and speed.

Lancane
02-22-2013, 03:55 AM
Ugh..... We used a power man scheme with mcdaniels, now we use a little of both zone and man. Fox is the one that brought the zone back....not sure what you are thinking here.

Under, I've already stated that we use both blocking schemes, but if you do a breakdown the Broncos do not use it nearly enough and to the same level that Moreno saw success in at Georgia, Denver still uses the man-to-man power more and that's because most of our line is a better fit for that scheme. If Denver planned on returning to a full time ZBS then they wouldn't have drafted Franklin and brought in veterans such as Koppen and Ramirez, even Beadles is a power guard, the only two who fit the criteria of the ZBS would be Clady which he played on a zone line at Boise State and Chris Kuper who played under Shanahan here.


Next, please read what I said. I said he goes over 100 TOTAL yards almost every game he plays he in. I don't give a what what anyone thinks or what kind of excuses they want to make for it. 100 yards is 100 yards. Weather it's catching a dump pass a route, a run, a pitch, a shovel whatever. Knowshon does it and people constantly make an excuse for it or about it.

MO corrected me and I said my bad. I don't give a rats furry ass that Moreno goes over a 100 total yards a game though, running the ball he has proven to be a liability. That doesn't mean I hate the kid, I like Moreno...I just don't see him as integral to the success of this team, he's great as a target to Manning in the passing game, but the passing game wasn't what cost us against Baltimore...it was the fact we couldn't grind out the clock, and Moreno has proven to not be the best in that aspect. You want to throw a quick dump pass, shovel or pitch and try to make something out of nothing...then Moreno is your guy. The only one making excuses right now is you, I understand why you want him to remain...I'm just stating what could happen, did I say it was inevitable and sure to happen?


Which brings me to the point of him being perfect for our scheme. So not only did you get the blocking mixed up, and mis read about his total yards, but your stance on not a right fit is out the window too. Remember edgerrin James, Joseph addai ? Those guys caught NUMEROUS passes, dumps and screens, from who? PFM!!!! Our qb.

That's your opinion, when the stats argue against it. And I didn't get the blocking scheme mixed up...if you believe we're running the ZBS, more power to you. As I stated above we use both, but anyone with knowledge of offensive football will tell you that Denver is not a zone based offensive football team.

It's your stance Under that is out the window, if we we're running a true ZBS, then why isn't Moreno a 1,000 yard rusher as he was in college? Why hasn't he proven to be a primary capable running back?


You mention Marshall Faulk, obviously every team could use one of him but tell me LAN, which rb on our team most closely resembles Faulk?

Mcgahee? Not a chance, he's stronger, but not as agile and not nearly as adept at catching.
Hillman? Not a chance, he fast enought and shifty enough, but no where near the power and strength or pass pro
Knowshon- can catch as well, can be shifty and make people miss, has some power but not near as much as Faulk, not the speed at all.

Hester- lol, don't think we need to go there.


The answer is knowshon. He's in the right scheme, he balked out in this scheme and he missed 2 quarters this year of a game to injury. Sorry buddy. Knowshon has done everything asked of him and done it well...IE. hold onto the ball, play ps for half a year, pass pro, run for us, be a lead back for us, catch for us, and leap tall safeties in a single bound. All he has left to prove is that he will not get tweaked up. I think that more than qualifies him to stick around another year.

Knowshon is not comparable to Faulk, in five seasons in Indianapolis, Faulk had rushed for 1,000 yards four times...would have been five accept for an injury his third season. Yes, Faulk was a hell of a receiver out of the backfield, but that is where the comparison ends. Sometimes the kids we like Under, just don't live up to their ability and Moreno fits that category. You don't think that I wouldn't like to see him turn into the next Faulk, Portis, Martin, etc.?

You brought up Addai, but Joseph Addai also proved to be a capable running back, on the ground as much as in the air, granted it's been years since he was a top-shelf back, but the point remains, that while a good receiving back is a plus to Manning, it's been those who can carry the rock which have proven to be worth more to him and that is the question that remains. If we go into the season with McGahee, Hillman and Moreno, and none of the three can seperate themselves as a primary tailback then Denver will not see a championship, they have to remain healthy as well...and as they say “The Proof is in the Pudding”!

:beer:

Lancane
02-22-2013, 04:07 AM
I was just thinking about what FA rbs there might be as I have a feeling we don't take one early this year and the rb pool doesn't seem to be all that great.

What's up with mendenhall anyone know? I he Ufa, Rfa, hurt or otherwise. I remember you were real high on I'm LAN when he came out. And he is a back with power and speed.

Mendenhall could still be worth a look, he struggled in 2011 and then tore his ACL. After returning he still struggled, though the Steelers were impatient...but then in December he was suspended by the team for a game for not showing up for their game against San Diego (I believe) because they had deactivated him for his inconsistent play. He and the Steelers are pretty much done from what I've heard and he is an unrestricted free agent. Issue is the ACL, is it better and his character recently, if the Broncos feel that his character issues are not detrimental and that he could make a fully recovery and contribute, then he becomes a viable option.

Northman
02-22-2013, 06:30 AM
The only skill position player that can remotely compete in scoring production in the last four years is Eric Decker, who has the same number of touchdowns as Moreno.

Boggles my mind the hate this guy gets.


Some would say the same thing about your attitude with Tebow. Just saying....

Northman
02-22-2013, 06:34 AM
Yet, commonly, on this board, people complain more about Moreno's fumbling than McGahee's...

Has a lot to do with his limited touches when he decides to fumble. Look back at the Falcon game and see that after only a couple of runs he coughed it up. It doesnt excuse McGahee's mishaps but McGahee has proven his worth to this team far more than Knowshon has. I just think some people on here like to lick his nuts for no reason at all. (Yes, i threw that in there since you like to generalize that everyone hates Moreno).

TXBRONC
02-22-2013, 06:45 AM
Some would say the same thing about your attitude with Tebow. Just saying....

He's right about this MO it's the same thing.

Dapper Dan
02-22-2013, 08:24 AM
Has a lot to do with his limited touches when he decides to fumble. Look back at the Falcon game and see that after only a couple of runs he coughed it up. It doesnt excuse McGahee's mishaps but McGahee has proven his worth to this team far more than Knowshon has. I just think some people on here like to lick his nuts for no reason at all. (Yes, i threw that in there since you like to generalize that everyone hates Moreno).

And how many fumbles did Moreno have after that one?

TXBRONC
02-22-2013, 09:05 AM
And how many fumbles did Moreno have after that one?

Maybe part of the reason he was benched was because he had a bad attitude.

MOtorboat
02-22-2013, 09:08 AM
Some would say the same thing about your attitude with Tebow. Just saying....

Moreno had more total yards from scrimmage than Tebow had passing yards in the last three years.

Think about that for a second. And then you'll see the difference.

Dapper Dan
02-22-2013, 09:11 AM
Maybe part of the reason he was benched was because he had a bad attitude.

What did him being benched or having a bad attitude have to do with him not fumbling for the rest of the season?

Northman
02-22-2013, 09:16 AM
Moreno had more total yards from scrimmage than Tebow had passing yards in the last three years.

Think about that for a second. And then you'll see the difference.


Your missing the point entirely mate. You get upset when people label you a Tebow hater yet i know your not. The same thing is going on here where people dont agree with your assessment about Moreno being all that you make him out to be and yet you want to label it hate. It couldnt be further from the truth. We just dont agree on how good he is.

Northman
02-22-2013, 09:18 AM
And how many fumbles did Moreno have after that one?


Ive already said he finished last season well. Dzone pointed to a lot of things i felt that Moreno did better down the stretch. However, he spent most of the year on the bench so with limited touches his knack for fumblnig decreases. But the overall thing here is that i believe if (huge if) Moreno is cut loose it will be because of inconsistency throughout his 4 years.

Dapper Dan
02-22-2013, 09:18 AM
If you go by touchdowns, which is what they put on the scoreboard, then Tebow has Moreno beat.

Moreno has 22 total TDs in his career in Denver. Tebow has 29 while in Denver. As a passer versus a rusher, the players primary job for the position, Tebow has 17 Passing TDs versus Moreno's 16 Rushing TDs. So, it seems that Tebow is a better passer than Moreno is a runner, statistically. These are all regular season stats, where Moreno played in 44, versus Tebow playing in 23 games.

It's hard to believe so many people hated one player, even though he brought a lot of points to the team.

MOtorboat
02-22-2013, 09:19 AM
Your missing the point entirely mate. You get upset when people label you a Tebow hater yet i know your not. The same thing is going on here where people dont agree with your assessment about Moreno being all that you make him out to be and yet you want to label it hate. It couldnt be further from the truth. We just dont agree on how good he is.

I didn't really label anyone in particular a "hater" and I have never referred to Tebow's "vag."

MOtorboat
02-22-2013, 09:20 AM
If you go by touchdowns, which is what they put on the scoreboard, then Tebow has Moreno beat.

Moreno has 22 total TDs in his career in Denver. Tebow has 29 while in Denver. As a passer versus a rusher, the players primary job for the position, Tebow has 17 Passing TDs versus Moreno's 16 Rushing TDs. So, it seems that Tebow is a better passer than Moreno is a runner, statistically. These are all regular season stats, where Moreno played in 44, versus Tebow playing in 23 games.

It's hard to believe so many people hated one player, even though he brought a lot of points to the team.

A passer should have on average three times the yards that a running back should have.

Northman
02-22-2013, 09:20 AM
I didn't really label anyone in particular a "hater" and I have never referred to Tebow's "vag."

Which is why i said you generalized.

Dapper Dan
02-22-2013, 09:21 AM
Ive already said he finished last season well. Dzone pointed to a lot of things i felt that Moreno did better down the stretch. However, he spent most of the year on the bench so with limited touches his knack for fumblnig decreases. But the overall thing here is that i believe if (huge if) Moreno is cut loose it will be because of inconsistency throughout his 4 years.

I agree that he's been inconsistent, which is why I think he may get one more year, because of how well he did in the second half of last season. One more season and if he messes up, he's gone.

According to Roto, here's his contract:
2013: $1.7 million, 2014: $1.31 million (Club Option), 2015: Free Agent

LTC Pain
02-22-2013, 09:54 AM
Moreno had knee surgery after the season. Same knee he's injured before. No indication if he will be ready for training camp or not.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2013/02/21/broncos-moreno-had-knee-surgery-following-season/18540/

Poet
02-22-2013, 12:37 PM
Moreno is an above average back. McGahee is at this point an above average back. The two of them are interchangeable and it's called depth. They both do similar things and they both have some health issues. It's hard to guess what Denver will do with them until we see the draft and free agency mature, but neither of these guys are world beaters. That's why they're both on the team.

TXBRONC
02-22-2013, 01:12 PM
Moreno had more total yards from scrimmage than Tebow had passing yards in the last three years.

Think about that for a second. And then you'll see the difference.

No there is no difference MO it's the same thing.


Besides what you just said is disengenious because you know very well Moreno has been the league longer and has played more game.

MOtorboat
02-22-2013, 01:22 PM
No there is no difference MO it's the same thing.


Besides what you just said is disengenious because you know very well Moreno has been the league longer and has played more game.

Whatever. And read it again, there's nothing disengenious at all. Three years is three years, same for both player.

I didn't label a single person, just noted that there is a lot of hate for Moreno that I think is unwarranted and baffling.

underrated29
02-22-2013, 01:43 PM
Under, I've already stated that we use both blocking schemes, but if you do a breakdown the Broncos do not use it nearly enough and to the same level that Moreno saw success in at Georgia, Denver still uses the man-to-man power more and that's because most of our line is a better fit for that scheme. If Denver planned on returning to a full time ZBS then they wouldn't have drafted Franklin and brought in veterans such as Koppen and Ramirez, even Beadles is a power guard, the only two who fit the criteria of the ZBS would be Clady which he played on a zone line at Boise State and Chris Kuper who played under Shanahan here.



MO corrected me and I said my bad. I don't give a rats furry ass that Moreno goes over a 100 total yards a game though, running the ball he has proven to be a liability. That doesn't mean I hate the kid, I like Moreno...I just don't see him as integral to the success of this team, he's great as a target to Manning in the passing game, but the passing game wasn't what cost us against Baltimore...it was the fact we couldn't grind out the clock, and Moreno has proven to not be the best in that aspect. You want to throw a quick dump pass, shovel or pitch and try to make something out of nothing...then Moreno is your guy. The only one making excuses right now is you, I understand why you want him to remain...I'm just stating what could happen, did I say it was inevitable and sure to happen?



That's your opinion, when the stats argue against it. And I didn't get the blocking scheme mixed up...if you believe we're running the ZBS, more power to you. As I stated above we use both, but anyone with knowledge of offensive football will tell you that Denver is not a zone based offensive football team.

It's your stance Under that is out the window, if we we're running a true ZBS, then why isn't Moreno a 1,000 yard rusher as he was in college? Why hasn't he proven to be a primary capable running back?



Knowshon is not comparable to Faulk, in five seasons in Indianapolis, Faulk had rushed for 1,000 yards four times...would have been five accept for an injury his third season. Yes, Faulk was a hell of a receiver out of the backfield, but that is where the comparison ends. Sometimes the kids we like Under, just don't live up to their ability and Moreno fits that category. You don't think that I wouldn't like to see him turn into the next Faulk, Portis, Martin, etc.?

You brought up Addai, but Joseph Addai also proved to be a capable running back, on the ground as much as in the air, granted it's been years since he was a top-shelf back, but the point remains, that while a good receiving back is a plus to Manning, it's been those who can carry the rock which have proven to be worth more to him and that is the question that remains. If we go into the season with McGahee, Hillman and Moreno, and none of the three can seperate themselves as a primary tailback then Denver will not see a championship, they have to remain healthy as well...and as they say “The Proof is in the Pudding”!

:beer:




But thats the thing brother, no body gives a rats ass if he goes over 100 total yards every game because its not on the ground. It makes no difference. 100 is 100. What matters most to a team from a RB? first downs and Touch downs. Knowshon does both. He runs hard and runs out the clock. He proved it this year. Why dont we tell, lesean mccoy, chris jonson, darren sproles, ladanian tomlinson, frank gore, ray rice that they are not actually as effective because sometimes when they run the clock out or score or get first downs its from a pass or a screen instead of a run all the way. Its an excuse to discount it. Flat out excuse. I dont make excuses for him. I look at the yards. 100+ is 100+ no matter how you dissect it.


I never said we were exclusively zbs, in fact, as I recall i was the first person to mention the fact that we use both schemes. Which ever one is more dominant does not matter. We use both, and fox brought the zbs back.


And I cant buy into the fact that knowshon is not a perfect fit for this offense because we do not run the zbs exclusively. That is a bunch of garbage man. We need a runner who can keep manning up right- check. We need a runner who can bail manning out on dump offs, checks and screens- check. We need a runner who can off set mannings passing and get the yards up the middle and get the first when needed- (despite the common incorrect thoughts)- Check!
Please tell me again how exactly knowshon is not a perfect fit for this scheme?....I bet I can come up with more reasons he does than you can for he does not.


Whoa dude, I NEVER said knowshon was comparable to Faulk! I said on our team which RB compares most closely to faulks skillset. That would be kneeshon (im calling him kneeshon now ;) ) I never said kneeshon would ever be close to him, nor would hillman or mcgahee.

Kneeshon and mcgahee are both better runners than addai. There is a reason why addai is out of the league. We could have picked him up if we thought he was a better runner than kneeshon or mcgahee. I disagree we wouldnt win a championship with those three as our backs again. I would not prefer it, but I disagree that would be our downfall. I think we will be astronomically better next year now that mccoy is out of our way. but that is a whole other subject in itself that I have argued for decades.

Northman
02-22-2013, 01:48 PM
But thats the thing brother, no body gives a rats ass if he goes over 100 total yards every game because its not on the ground. It makes no difference. 100 is 100. What matters most to a team from a RB? first downs and Touch downs. Knowshon does both. He runs hard and runs out the clock. He proved it this year. Why dont we tell, lesean mccoy, chris jonson, darren sproles, ladanian tomlinson, frank gore, ray rice that they are not actually as effective because sometimes when they run the clock out or score or get first downs its from a pass or a screen instead of a run all the way. Its an excuse to discount it. Flat out excuse. I dont make excuses for him. I look at the yards. 100+ is 100+ no matter how you dissect it.


I never said we were exclusively zbs, in fact, as I recall i was the first person to mention the fact that we use both schemes. Which ever one is more dominant does not matter. We use both, and fox brought the zbs back.


And I cant buy into the fact that knowshon is not a perfect fit for this offense because we do not run the zbs exclusively. That is a bunch of garbage man. We need a runner who can keep manning up right- check. We need a runner who can bail manning out on dump offs, checks and screens- check. We need a runner who can off set mannings passing and get the yards up the middle and get the first when needed- (despite the common incorrect thoughts)- Check!
Please tell me again how exactly knowshon is not a perfect fit for this scheme?....I bet I can come up with more reasons he does than you can for he does not.


Whoa dude, I NEVER said knowshon was comparable to Faulk! I said on our team which RB compares most closely to faulks skillset. That would be kneeshon (im calling him kneeshon now ;) ) I never said kneeshon would ever be close to him, nor would hillman or mcgahee.

Kneeshon and mcgahee are both better runners than addai. There is a reason why addai is out of the league. We could have picked him up if we thought he was a better runner than kneeshon or mcgahee. I disagree we wouldnt win a championship with those three as our backs again. I would not prefer it, but I disagree that would be our downfall. I think we will be astronomically better next year now that mccoy is out of our way. but that is a whole other subject in itself that I have argued for decades.


You lost me when you started comparing Moreno to those other guys. lol

underrated29
02-22-2013, 01:51 PM
You lost me when you started comparing Moreno to those other guys. lol


Damn you North! Where is my silver handled stick? Ima jab you. I did not compare them as runners just as players who run and catch passes. I never said kneeshon was on the level of those guys or faulk.

Poet
02-22-2013, 01:52 PM
Knowshon Moreno analysis is complex.

TXBRONC
02-22-2013, 01:54 PM
Whatever. And read it again, there's nothing disingenuous at all. Three years is three years, same for both player.

I didn't label a single person, just noted that there is a lot of hate for Moreno that I think is unwarranted and baffling.


Yeah it is disingenuous. Tebow was here two years not three he also had a total of 14 starts under his belt.


Back to the real topic, the rumor about Moreno possibly cut is still just a rumor. Nevertheless, I wont be shocked if stays or goes because there are legitimate reasons for both arguements.

Northman
02-22-2013, 01:56 PM
Damn you North! Where is my silver handled stick? Ima jab you. I did not compare them as runners just as players who run and catch passes. I never said kneeshon was on the level of those guys or faulk.

Bwhahahahaha, Kneeshon. love it.

underrated29
02-22-2013, 02:34 PM
The good news is that it looks like we are not all that interested in trading for deangelo williams. If/when the panthers cut him, we might be then, but I hope not. Not that I dont like him. I love him, but I dont like using high draft picks on any rbs this year. I just dont see any that are worth it. (yes, imo stewart is- so shut it. he is my home boy)