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LTC Pain
02-17-2013, 09:32 AM
Good article this morning in the DP about Elway being focused on filling holes in the roster via Free Agency and the draft. Now keep in mind this is Mike Klis talking (thankfully not Kizla). The part that really surprised me is what he said about the MLB position, and that the Broncos would not be looking for a MLB. I just wonder how Klis is coming to this conclusion? MLB is possibly the greatest "need" on the Broncos defense right now. MLBs usually lead there teams in tackles and ours was no where to be seen in that stat. The Broncos need a mauler at MLB. If that's Irving or Johnson then fine. But if one of the top five MLBers falls in our lap during the draft we need to take him. Otherwise, the defense will continue to be "Charmin" against the run.

The Broncos won't be looking for a middle linebacker, even though Brooking is a free agent and Joe Mays is coming off a season-ending injury. The plan is for Nate Irving and Steve Johnson to compete for the starting job at that position, with Irving having the edge because of experience. Irving was Denver's third-round draft pick in 2011 and was hurt as much as any player by the NFL lockout that year, but he flashed ability in 2012. Johnson was an undrafted rookie last season.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22606953/john-elway-convinced-drafting-brock-osweiler-will-pay

UnderArmour
02-17-2013, 09:42 AM
Just as long as we aren't playing with 10 guys on the field like we were the last 2 years against the Patriots with Joe Mays, I'm fine with it.

Dapper Dan
02-17-2013, 10:52 AM
.....The plan is for Nate Irving and Steve Johnson to compete for the starting job...
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22606953/john-elway-convinced-drafting-brock-osweiler-will-pay

This plan? So did he get that from the FO? Is it a smokescreen?

Chef Zambini
02-17-2013, 10:54 AM
in a 4-3 the MLB is critical.
our front 7 tends to morph.
but regardless the MLB needs to make plays!
our broincos have ignored the position since the JMCD days.
not happy to hear that the same mentality remains.

Superchop 7
02-17-2013, 10:39 PM
I agree, this is a complette head scratcher.

Simple Jaded
02-18-2013, 01:44 AM
Mike Klis has an epic capacity for being wrong. People rip on Kizla but Klis is the biggest ******* idiot in Denver, or at least tied with Dmac.......

TXBRONC
02-18-2013, 07:03 AM
Since Elway's philosophy is to draft the best player available I would venture to guess that if he thinks a mike linebacker is the best player on the board at that time he would pull the trigger.

Chef Zambini
02-21-2013, 11:12 AM
Since Elway's philosophy is to draft the best player available I would venture to guess that if he thinks a mike linebacker is the best player on the board at that time he would pull the trigger.sorry tex, i have to disagree with this assesment of the JFE draft strategy.
the M.O. is more in keeping with TARGET drafting. they identify players they WANT in each round of the draft, based on their projected draft position and then they maneuver to select that player!
it is NOT BPA, if it were, how can you explain dropping OUT of the first round TWICE in the same draft?
what, there were no best players available?
JFE drafts based on NEED , DESIRE and availability!
it is far removed from BPA, sorry.

CoachChaz
02-21-2013, 11:20 AM
I'll be the one to agree. Yes, we need a MLB to step up and be THE guy in the middle. But if Irving and/or Johnson can be that guy, then I'm fine with focusing on other areas of need.

Dapper Dan
02-21-2013, 11:27 AM
I'll be the one to agree. Yes, we need a MLB to step up and be THE guy in the middle. But if Irving and/or Johnson can be that guy, then I'm fine with focusing on other areas of need.

That would be ideal. I wonder if Irving just needed time to sit and learn. How did he look on the field? Some players to have to be a big impact from day one to be future starters. But if the FO thinks Irving has a chance to be the starting MLB, that'd be awesome if it could work out.

CoachChaz
02-21-2013, 11:36 AM
Really hard to tell due to the sporadic time he got to play and the fact he played everywhere. My guess is they got a much better look at him in practice than we did in games. The other thing to take into consideration is it's often hard for a player to get into a rhythm on the field if they arent out there regularly. Who knows

TXBRONC
02-21-2013, 11:57 AM
sorry tex, i have to disagree with this assesment of the JFE draft strategy.
the M.O. is more in keeping with TARGET drafting. they identify players they WANT in each round of the draft, based on their projected draft position and then they maneuver to select that player!
it is NOT BPA, if it were, how can you explain dropping OUT of the first round TWICE in the same draft?
what, there were no best players available?
JFE drafts based on NEED , DESIRE and availability!
it is far removed from BPA, sorry.

No they draft BPA sorry that's straight from the mouths of Elway and Fox.

Here we go again you take one thing out context. Yes they traded down from 25 to 31 and then from there they trade out of the first round. First, they were accumulating a few picks. Second, they made it clear after the draft that they didn't see much difference between the bottom of the first round and the top of the second round. That holds true for a lot draft classes you didn't know this? It is common knowledge. According to Elway and Fox they draft BPA you see it's not what you think the BPA is it's what they think the BPA is.

TXBRONC
02-21-2013, 11:59 AM
Really hard to tell due to the sporadic time he got to play and the fact he played everywhere. My guess is they got a much better look at him in practice than we did in games. The other thing to take into consideration is it's often hard for a player to get into a rhythm on the field if they arent out there regularly. Who knows

IIRC the times he was on the field he wasn't playing in the middle.

CoachChaz
02-21-2013, 12:04 PM
IIRC the times he was on the field he wasn't playing in the middle.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned he played everywhere.

TXBRONC
02-21-2013, 12:06 PM
Yeah, that's why I mentioned he played everywhere.

Sorry I missed it.

Chef Zambini
02-21-2013, 02:19 PM
No they draft BPA sorry that's according that's straight from the mouths of Elway and Fox.

Here we go again you take one thing out context. Yes they traded down from 25 to 31 and then from there they trade out of the first round. First, they were accumulating a few picks. Second, they made it clear after the draft that they didn't see much difference between the bottom of the first round and the top of the second round. That holds true for a lot draft classes you didn't know this? It is common knowledge. According to Elway and Fox they draft BPA you see it's not what you think the BPA is it's what they think the BPA is.tex, they can say whatever they want, you cant be legitimate about BPA, if you mobve DOWN...TWICE !every player is available when you pick, if you move downTWICE, you are diminishing the players available!
you are therfore NOT interewsted in BPA, you are focused on filling NEEDS and finding VALUE!
they targeted wolfe, did they not?
targeted osweiler did they not?
they wanted new RB talent and identified hillman, TARGETS in each round, NOT BPA !
they targeted players to fill positions, NOT BPA, look at the reality, ignore the 'diplomacy".
my best wishes to you and all your loved ones, no offense intended, just want to point out that bpa IS NOT HOW THE BRONCOS DRAFTED.
only teams like the 49ers hAVE THE LUXURY OF DRAFTING bpa!
all tyhe rest have to fill NEEDS and consider their roster and a course of action in pursuing talent!
BPA is a falicy for most teams, including our broncos!
Question:
are the broncos going to select a QB if he is BPA in ANY of the first 4 rounds?
of course not !
are they going to select aDE if he is the best player available?
not a chance !

Chef Zambini
02-21-2013, 02:29 PM
No they draft BPA sorry that's according that's straight from the mouths of Elway and Fox.

Here we go again you take one thing out context. Yes they traded down from 25 to 31 and then from there they trade out of the first round. First, they were accumulating a few picks. Second, they made it clear after the draft that they didn't see much difference between the bottom of the first round and the top of the second round. That holds true for a lot draft classes you didn't know this? It is common knowledge. According to Elway and Fox they draft BPA you see it's not what you think the BPA is it's what they think the BPA is.accumulating picks, again far different from drafting the best player available.
BPA is what the LIONS did when they drafted 3 WR in the first round in consecutive years.
its an overstaed, RARE method, that only the very best of teams can employ, when they feel they dont have any holes and just want the best talent available.

BroncoWave
02-21-2013, 02:39 PM
tex, they can say whatever they want, you cant be legitimate about BPA, if you mobve DOWN...TWICE !every player is available when you pick, if you move downTWICE, you are diminishing the players available!
you are therfore NOT interewsted in BPA, you are focused on filling NEEDS and finding VALUE!
they targeted wolfe, did they not?
targeted osweiler did they not?
they wanted new RB talent and identified hillman, TARGETS in each round, NOT BPA !
they targeted players to fill positions, NOT BPA, look at the reality, ignore the 'diplomacy".
my best wishes to you and all your loved ones, no offense intended, just want to point out that bpa IS NOT HOW THE BRONCOS DRAFTED.
only teams like the 49ers hAVE THE LUXURY OF DRAFTING bpa!
all tyhe rest have to fill NEEDS and consider their roster and a course of action in pursuing talent!
BPA is a falicy for most teams, including our broncos!
Question:
are the broncos going to select a QB if he is BPA in ANY of the first 4 rounds?
of course not !
are they going to select aDE if he is the best player available?
not a chance !

I would say the Broncos do what most teams do. Go BPA at a position of need. If they are in a position where their BPA is a QB or DE, both positions we don't really need, they would likely try to trade back since players at positions of need would likely be there later.

Dapper Dan
02-21-2013, 03:01 PM
I would say the Broncos do what most teams do. Go BPA at a position of need. If they are in a position where their BPA is a QB or DE, both positions we don't really need, they would likely try to trade back since players at positions of need would likely be there later.

I think that makes the most successful sense. Everyone talks BPA, but that would be stupid to forget about your needs.

BroncoWave
02-21-2013, 03:14 PM
I think that makes the most successful sense. Everyone talks BPA, but that would be stupid to forget about your needs.

Yeah, fans like to look at this issue in black and white but that is rarely the case. Smart teams aren't going to reach for a player just because he fills their biggest need, and they also won't pick someone in a position they are stacked in just because he is the top player on their board.

I would say 95% of draft picks are made in that middle zone. Teams pick the best player on their board who also fills a need. And if they don't see that type of player at their pick, or they think they can get that player later, they look to trade back.

It will be interesting to see what KC does with their first pick. They really need a QB but it would be a reach to pick one at 1.

CoachChaz
02-21-2013, 03:21 PM
They can take a QB in the 2nd round. I find it hard to believe that more than one will be drafted in the first. However...if they want the best one, they may have to go for it. If someone goes in the first, it'll likely be Smith

BroncoWave
02-21-2013, 03:35 PM
They can take a QB in the 2nd round. I find it hard to believe that more than one will be drafted in the first. However...if they want the best one, they may have to go for it. If someone goes in the first, it'll likely be Smith

I just think it's a huge mistake to draft a QB just to draft one. That's a position you can't afford to whiff on. Now if they think one of the QBs on the board is capable of being their franchise guy they should go for it, but I don't see any of the guys in this draft being that.

CoachChaz
02-21-2013, 04:00 PM
I think a lot of people sell Geno Smith pretty short. From what I've read, I dont think there is a guy that works harder at getting better than he does. Someone like that may be worth taking a chance on. No, he's not seen in the light of a Luck or RGIII, but what does that really prove? That he cant be as good...or he didnt get the media hype?

BroncoWave
02-21-2013, 04:04 PM
I think a lot of people sell Geno Smith pretty short. From what I've read, I dont think there is a guy that works harder at getting better than he does. Someone like that may be worth taking a chance on. No, he's not seen in the light of a Luck or RGIII, but what does that really prove? That he cant be as good...or he didnt get the media hype?

Saying he works hard and doesn't get media hype doesn't tell me how good he is.

Dapper Dan
02-21-2013, 05:27 PM
I think the Chiefs could end up getting a decent QB with their second round pick. I think it depends on how these next few workouts go.

TXBRONC
02-22-2013, 07:15 AM
tex, they can say whatever they want, you cant be legitimate about BPA, if you mobve DOWN...TWICE !every player is available when you pick, if you move downTWICE, you are diminishing the players available!
you are therfore NOT interewsted in BPA, you are focused on filling NEEDS and finding VALUE!
they targeted wolfe, did they not?
targeted osweiler did they not?
they wanted new RB talent and identified hillman, TARGETS in each round, NOT BPA !
they targeted players to fill positions, NOT BPA, look at the reality, ignore the 'diplomacy".
my best wishes to you and all your loved ones, no offense intended, just want to point out that bpa IS NOT HOW THE BRONCOS DRAFTED.
only teams like the 49ers hAVE THE LUXURY OF DRAFTING bpa!
all tyhe rest have to fill NEEDS and consider their roster and a course of action in pursuing talent!
BPA is a falicy for most teams, including our broncos!
Question:
are the broncos going to select a QB if he is BPA in ANY of the first 4 rounds?
of course not !
are they going to select aDE if he is the best player available?
not a chance !

Quarterback probably not but a defensive end I could easily see them drafting one if he's best player on the board.

TXBRONC
02-22-2013, 07:18 AM
Yeah, fans like to look at this issue in black and white but that is rarely the case. Smart teams aren't going to reach for a player just because he fills their biggest need, and they also won't pick someone in a position they are stacked in just because he is the top player on their board.

I would say 95% of draft picks are made in that middle zone. Teams pick the best player on their board who also fills a need. And if they don't see that type of player at their pick, or they think they can get that player later, they look to trade back.

It will be interesting to see what KC does with their first pick. They really need a QB but it would be a reach to pick one at 1.

How many defensive ends have the Giants drafted over the last several years?

Dapper Dan
02-22-2013, 08:11 AM
How many defensive ends have the Giants drafted over the last several years?

2003, 2005, 2006, 2010. That's inside the first 3 rounds. First round only is 2006, 2010. 2006 was an OLB/DE.

Why?

BroncoWave
02-22-2013, 10:29 AM
How many defensive ends have the Giants drafted over the last several years?

I'm not saying they wouldn't draft a DE. But if it's their pick and the only player they really like at that spot is a DE, I think they might try to trade back to stockplie some picks and get a player they like at another position later.

CoachChaz
02-22-2013, 10:32 AM
Saying he works hard and doesn't get media hype doesn't tell me how good he is.

Neither does watching him play in an offense where he throws 70 passes a week in a conference that doesnt play defense.

I'm just saying that based on the information I've seen and read...he would be my bet to be the better QB of this class.

Chef Zambini
02-22-2013, 07:34 PM
Quarterback probably not but a defensive end I could easily see them drafting one if he's best player on the board.here is my point. if they identify a DE they want in ther SECOND round, they are not going to take the DE in the FIRST round just because he is the BPA!
understand?
they 1. identify needs
2 identify talent that fills those needs in each round
3. make selections based onTARGETED individuals and filling NEED, far removed from waitng their turn and then just taking the BPA!

Dapper Dan
03-14-2013, 09:27 PM
So. I didn't want to start a new thread, but wanted to ask about the MLB position.

Is Elway really planning on a competition between Irving, Johnson, and Bradley? Is MLB still a hole?

Jsteve01
03-14-2013, 10:12 PM
Bradley reminds me of Niko

Dapper Dan
03-14-2013, 10:15 PM
Bradley reminds me of Niko

Yeah. His size reminds me of Nico or Kiko.

Simple Jaded
03-14-2013, 10:28 PM
I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that Irving could pan out. I don't give Johnson and Bradley much thought, though Bradley was pretty salty in Philli.

Which probably means Johnson will kick ass.......

Jsteve01
03-14-2013, 10:30 PM
I love Irving as a playmaker. I just wonder if his skills aren't best suited on the weak side. He had a ton of flexibility at NC State. I just don't know that I saw the instincts to be a top flight Mike. I pray that I'm wrong because he could be a huge impact player if he can read and get off blocks.

Lancane
03-15-2013, 12:07 AM
I love Irving as a playmaker. I just wonder if his skills aren't best suited on the weak side. He had a ton of flexibility at NC State. I just don't know that I saw the instincts to be a top flight Mike. I pray that I'm wrong because he could be a huge impact player if he can read and get off blocks.

Irving is talented and has a knack for the ball when he is healthy, and I agree with you that his skill set is what you'd look for in an outside linebacker. However, here is the problem, Denver is sold on Miller and Woodyard on the outside - they also like Irving a lot, but the only way he's going to see the field is either as a backup at Sam or Will, or to try his hand at the Mike position. And that is what he's being given by the Broncos, a chance to earn a starting spot. I don't believe that they are sold on him at the position, I think it's more they hope he can switch and become the middle linebacker that they need. If not then Johnson or Bradley will get the nod to start in the middle. If you read Irving's bio, he really seems to be a better option outside, so I understand your concerns, but they're doing this for him to have a shot because they like what he brings. The kicker is that unlike Irving and Johnson, Bradley has been a starter inside and he has the edge, if Irving is named the starter, then I am sure he earned it.

summit pass
03-15-2013, 12:27 AM
In all seriousness I would go for Minter of LSU, Imo he is the best MIL.

Dapper Dan
03-15-2013, 12:31 AM
I'm still trying to figure out why we're not moving Champ to MLB.

summit pass
03-15-2013, 12:35 AM
My bad somewhat mlb. Alright kindle let me correct.