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View Full Version : Trade Marshall for a Quality QB and a 2nd Rounder?



Overtime
08-23-2009, 01:00 AM
Orton looks like arse, Simms isn't who we thought he was, Brandstater is nowhere near ready (I was overly optimistic about him, but he has a long way to go).

We need to trade Marshall for a quality backup and a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

McDaniels can't seriously be thinking about going into an NFL Regular Season with Orton as his starter, not with him playing like this....:tsk:

If he does he's an idiot.

Maybe we could trade with Pittsburgh and get Charlie Batch? or with Jokeland and get Jeff Garcia? Maybe Seneca Wallace from, Seattle? or
that Dixon kid that Pittsburgh drafted, he looked sharp tonight.

we must do something...Orton isn't going to cut it!

if we do nothing, at least we'll have a crappy season and we can take Colt McCoy in the draft, but we can definitely plan on rebuilding for the next 2 or 3 years, winning is not something that is going to show itself quickly in Denver.

we're in for a long season, very long. and a very tumultuous couple of years.

If Orton starts the entire season, I wouldn't be surprised to see McDumbass fired after this season.

claymore
08-23-2009, 01:02 AM
OMG, this thread makes me feel worse! Charlie batch? :vomit:

Overtime
08-23-2009, 01:05 AM
im open to suggestions, but Batch has looked rather impressive for Pittsburgh. very efficient, crisp, and throws with surgical precision.

i know he had some rough years in Detroit, but it was afterall Detroit......

claymore
08-23-2009, 01:06 AM
im open to suggestions, but Batch has looked rather impressive for Pittsburgh. very efficient, crisp, and throws with surgical precision.

i know he had some rough years in Detroit, but it was afterall Detroit......

I know, I know. The same thing happens to me when I realize I am rooting for simms to become our starter. Oh there it is again, little bit of vomit in my mouth.

DenBronx
08-23-2009, 01:09 AM
why dont we just keep and pay marshall so whoever comes in actually has someone to throw to instead of gaffney?

underrated29
08-23-2009, 01:14 AM
let me guess next you want to trade Knowshon Moreno for chris perry or brian leonard.

Maybe we can get shaun alexander too.


I cant believe you actually said that batch,wallace,tjax would be better choices than orton. I liked you, but disagreed to the utmost with you about Knowhon. But this- You lost cred points hardcore with this one.

sneakers
08-23-2009, 01:15 AM
I think we should instead build a shelter to protect us from the falling sky.

Overtime
08-23-2009, 01:18 AM
let me guess next you want to trade Knowshon Moreno for chris perry or brian leonard.

Maybe we can get shaun alexander too.


I cant believe you actually said that batch,wallace,tjax would be better choices than orton. I liked you, but disagreed to the utmost with you about Knowhon. But this- You lost cred points hardcore with this one.

I'd be all for trading No-Show for a quality QB. but no I don't want Chris Perry or Brian Leonard, or Grandpa Alexander for that matter.

Batch > Orton, Wallace > Orton, hell at this point Brody Croyle or Jon Kitna would be better than Orton.

and I have no idea who the hell TJAX is.

claymore
08-23-2009, 01:18 AM
I think we should instead build a shelter to protect us from the falling sky.

And not let JMCD in.

NickelTG
08-23-2009, 01:20 AM
Batch is 34. I wouldn't trade Bmarsh for him and a 2nd rounder. It's looking very doubtful,that this is a super bowl contending team. Batch might be a small bandage on an open wound,but he would only be a small temporary fix(no assurance on that either).

underrated29
08-23-2009, 01:28 AM
I'd be all for trading No-Show for a quality QB. but no I don't want Chris Perry or Brian Leonard, or Grandpa Alexander for that matter.

Batch > Orton, Wallace > Orton, hell at this point Brody Croyle or Jon Kitna would be better than Orton.

and I have no idea who the hell TJAX is.



Bill Devaroe > Overtime




ps-tarvarus jackson

NameUsedBefore
08-23-2009, 01:29 AM
Don't forget that Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn arrangement in Cleveland.

DenBronx
08-23-2009, 01:34 AM
Bill Devaroe > Overtime




ps-tarvarus jackson

tyson jackson?

Overtime
08-23-2009, 01:41 AM
Bill Devaroe > Overtime
ps-tarvarus jackson

i never said anything about Tavaris Jackson...he's about as worthless as Orton is.


Don't forget that Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn arrangement in Cleveland.

I'll take Brady Quinn in a heartbeat over this riff raff we got. if we had Quinn, we'd be in the playoffs this year, Super Bowl next year.

we could trade B-Marsh and Orton for Quinn, and I'd be happy with that.

Northman
08-23-2009, 01:43 AM
Maybe we should find a way to snake Leinart from Arizona. Give them Marshall and our first and tell them we are really desperate. lmao

Overtime
08-23-2009, 01:55 AM
Maybe we should find a way to snake Leinart from Arizona. Give them Marshall and our first and tell them we are really desperate. lmao

that's another option I'm willing to entertain.

Orton is clearly not competent to do the job here, and whatever possessed McD to make such a move is completely beyond me. we shoulda never agreed to that trade.

Northman
08-23-2009, 02:00 AM
that's another option I'm willing to entertain.

Orton is clearly not competent to do the job here, and whatever possessed McD to make such a move is completely beyond me. we shoulda never agreed to that trade.

The trade doesnt really bother me. But, maybe we should of thought of taking a Qb in the first round of the draft and moving up. But, i had a Skins fan talking with tonight at the party while the game was on and he said interesting thing that is starting to look legit. And that is that Colin Cowherd made a statement that when your a veteran Coach and you first come in you tinker around a little bit in your new house but for the most part you do it subtley. But, a young Coach will generally come in and start tearing down walls and gutting it out and sometimes that can lead to disaster. So while McD may have had some good ideas initially when he came in he may have try to do everything in one night and that could backfire bigtime on him in the long run. We shall see.

dogfish
08-23-2009, 02:16 AM
i never said anything about Tavaris Jackson...he's about as worthless as Orton is.



I'll take Brady Quinn in a heartbeat over this riff raff we got. if we had Quinn, we'd be in the playoffs this year, Super Bowl next year.

we could trade B-Marsh and Orton for Quinn, and I'd be happy with that.

daryll hackney > brady queen


:coffee:

Lonestar
08-23-2009, 02:23 AM
I have been an advocate of not allowing newbies to start threads and have to say in this case it should be about 800 posts..:eek:

LRtagger
08-23-2009, 09:39 AM
Why trade Marshall?? Aren't there some quality QBs who are UDFA??? This team needs to start thinking outside the box.

Warner looked like ass last night...maybe the Cards will release him?

Krugan
08-23-2009, 10:51 AM
We need to trade Marshall for somethign to help us move into position for Sam Bradford.

I cant see any other college prospect with as much upside in this type of offense then that kid.

To bad we blew up our first pick next year, because more than likely it would just about in the right spot to grab him without trading other picks to get there.

Of course im angered over the left hand pass, and the poor play of the offense as a whole.

Shazam!
08-23-2009, 12:08 PM
Marshall for Colt Brennan and a 3rd Rounder.

Northman
08-23-2009, 12:09 PM
Marshall for Colt Brennan and a 3rd Rounder.

How bout Colt and Malcolm Kelly for Marshall straight up? :D

rationalfan
08-23-2009, 12:45 PM
this entire thread (and many of the posts written under other threads) feels like it was authored by daniel snyder.

advocate knee-jerk trades based on judgements made in preseason? bring in players who look good in "Madden" or who were average collegiate players with big names? sell your future for the allure of a big name prospect or free agent?

sounds like snyder to me. and we all know how successful he's been.

Overtime
08-23-2009, 12:55 PM
We need to trade Marshall for somethign to help us move into position for Sam Bradford.

I cant see any other college prospect with as much upside in this type of offense then that kid.

To bad we blew up our first pick next year, because more than likely it would just about in the right spot to grab him without trading other picks to get there.

Of course im angered over the left hand pass, and the poor play of the offense as a whole.

I'd take Colt McCoy before I took Sam Bradford. McCoy has a bigger arm, better accuracy, is more poised in the pocket, can audible and read a defense.

Bradford needs the head coach/oc to hold his hand and tell him what to do, and he gets happy feet in the pocket, and makes bad decisions.

NickelTG
08-23-2009, 12:56 PM
We need to trade Marshall for somethign to help us move into position for Sam Bradford.

I cant see any other college prospect with as much upside in this type of offense then that kid.

To bad we blew up our first pick next year, because more than likely it would just about in the right spot to grab him without trading other picks to get there.

Of course im angered over the left hand pass, and the poor play of the offense as a whole.

I agree. Colt Mccoy might be a solid qb as well. None of the qb's in this thread are worth Marshall imo..It's too late to find a band-aid this big.

bullis26
08-23-2009, 01:25 PM
Orton looks like arse, Simms isn't who we thought he was, Brandstater is nowhere near ready (I was overly optimistic about him, but he has a long way to go).

We need to trade Marshall for a quality backup and a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

McDaniels can't seriously be thinking about going into an NFL Regular Season with Orton as his starter, not with him playing like this....:tsk:

If he does he's an idiot.

Maybe we could trade with Pittsburgh and get Charlie Batch? or with Jokeland and get Jeff Garcia? Maybe Seneca Wallace from, Seattle? or
that Dixon kid that Pittsburgh drafted, he looked sharp tonight.

we must do something...Orton isn't going to cut it!

if we do nothing, at least we'll have a crappy season and we can take Colt McCoy in the draft, but we can definitely plan on rebuilding for the next 2 or 3 years, winning is not something that is going to show itself quickly in Denver.

we're in for a long season, very long. and a very tumultuous couple of years.

If Orton starts the entire season, I wouldn't be surprised to see McDumbass fired after this season.

all those QB's you mentioned wouldnt be much of an upgrade over what we had. Dennis Dixon hasnt played a regular season game. Garcia isnt a spread QB. Batch is just too old and would be another bad option. Wallace would be my favorite option out of what you mentioned but still not one id want.

I'd want to work out a trade for Quinn, Brennan, or even Chase Daniels. Brennan and Daniels you could get for much cheaper than any option you mentioned

broncohead
08-23-2009, 01:33 PM
Just put Marshall on the field and Orton gets better. Gaf shouldn't be a starter and would be most teams 4th option. An average WR would have caught that TD pass.

Tned
08-23-2009, 01:57 PM
Why trade Marshall?? Aren't there some quality QBs who are UDFA??? This team needs to start thinking outside the box.

Warner looked like ass last night...maybe the Cards will release him?

Aren't the first cut downs this week? There will probably be some vet QB's cut.

topscribe
08-23-2009, 02:07 PM
If Orton starts the entire season, I wouldn't be surprised to see McDumbass fired after this season.

There's only one problem with that:

You are not Pat Bowlen . . . :coffee:

-----

Tned
08-23-2009, 02:10 PM
There's only one problem with that:

You are not Pat Bowlen . . . :coffee:

-----

He didn't say he 'would' fire him, he said he "wouldn't be surprised" if McDaniels was fired.

topscribe
08-23-2009, 02:13 PM
He didn't say he 'would' fire him, he said he "wouldn't be surprised" if McDaniels was fired.

Thank you. I read it right.

I said it right . . .

-----

Tned
08-23-2009, 02:14 PM
Thank you. I read it right.

I said it right . . .

-----

Ahhh, you were just being sarcastic.

topscribe
08-23-2009, 02:17 PM
Ahhh, you were just being sarcastic.

Seems to be the theme of this thread, doesn't it?

-----

Tned
08-23-2009, 02:20 PM
Seems to be the theme of this thread, doesn't it?

-----

Most threads, actually. It's what happens when your QB throws left handed picks ;)


Couldn't pass on that one :laugh:

hamrob
08-23-2009, 02:36 PM
Let's break this down:

- Orton is probably a top 20 QB in this league
- There are only about 5-10 elite QB's in the NFL
- About the only potential options that could be better than Orton, are;
Anderson/Quinn
Culpepper
- Simms is probable just as good as 5-10 starters in this league

What this means?

We're stuck with Orton...get used to it. Our only real option is (not a bad one) Chris Simms!

Overtime
08-23-2009, 02:47 PM
all those QB's you mentioned wouldnt be much of an upgrade over what we had. Dennis Dixon hasnt played a regular season game. Garcia isnt a spread QB. Batch is just too old and would be another bad option. Wallace would be my favorite option out of what you mentioned but still not one id want.

I'd want to work out a trade for Quinn, Brennan, or even Chase Daniels. Brennan and Daniels you could get for much cheaper than any option you mentioned

sorry but I don't want anything to do with Chase Daniels. if he becomes a member of this team, I'm done and won't watch another Broncos game until he's cut/traded or becomes a living tackling dummy.
there's a reason that MU trailer trash reject is an undrafted FA...and it's because he's a choker. Chase Daniels = DO NOT WANT!

topscribe
08-23-2009, 05:19 PM
Most threads, actually. It's what happens when your QB throws left handed picks ;)


Couldn't pass on that one :laugh:

Just remember, as fellow Plummer supporters, we were in the same boat at one time in a similar case. ;)

-----

MOtorboat
08-23-2009, 05:27 PM
sorry but I don't want anything to do with Chase Daniels. if he becomes a member of this team, I'm done and won't watch another Broncos game until he's cut/traded or becomes a living tackling dummy.
there's a reason that MU trailer trash reject is an undrafted FA...and it's because he's a choker. Chase Daniels = DO NOT WANT!

And I quote:


no i just noticed people like you who are so close minded, that have lost the ability to think outside the box, which is why our team is so limited, because we don't have people willing to look for talent in the last places most people would look.

instead we subject ourselves to the traditional means of obtaining talent and we're just screwing ourselves and our team, instead of thinking and looking outside the box.

Ravage!!!
08-23-2009, 05:33 PM
Irony at its best....


P.s. (orton a top 20 QB? on what list? On some Fantasy list? Noooo.. no fantasy list has him as a top 20, so what list would have him as a top 20????)

Tned
08-23-2009, 05:36 PM
Just remember, as fellow Plummer supporters, we were in the same boat at one time in a similar case. ;)

-----

No, not really. I waited until Plummer performed in Denver before I jumped on his bandwagon, I didn't try and sell people on how great he was based on AZ stats. Time will tell if Orton can win in Denver like Plummer did, but no matter how much his praises are sung, it won't change the fact that right now, he has done nothing.

Overtime
08-23-2009, 05:45 PM
Irony at its best....


P.s. (orton a top 20 QB? on what list? On some Fantasy list? Noooo.. not fantasy list has him as a top 20, so what list would have him as a top 20????)

the list of NFL Reject QB's.

MOtorboat
08-23-2009, 06:16 PM
Irony at its best....


P.s. (orton a top 20 QB? on what list? On some Fantasy list? Noooo.. no fantasy list has him as a top 20, so what list would have him as a top 20????)

Well, ESPN's fantasy rankings for last year had him 17th. Their projections are for him to be 16th this year...so...yeah...a fantasy list has him as a Top 20 QB.

Ravage!!!
08-23-2009, 06:18 PM
Well, ESPN's fantasy rankings for last year had him 17th. Their projections are for him to be 16th this year...so...yeah...a fantasy list has him as a Top 20 QB.

Hmmmm... well... I guess I don't read the ESPN fantasy rankings. Is that a pp/INT league? :lol:

I jest I jest

weazel
08-23-2009, 07:43 PM
it would be nice to have that top 5 pick in the next draft after our horrible season. Oh wait, we traded our pick away for a 2nd round 5'0 CB...

Tned
08-23-2009, 07:50 PM
it would be nice to have that top 5 pick in the next draft after our horrible season. Oh wait, we traded our pick away for a 2nd round 5'0 CB...

For the sarcasm to work, you should have typed.

It WILL be nice to have that top 5 pick in the next draft.... Oh, wait.....

broken12
08-23-2009, 07:50 PM
meow

MOtorboat
08-23-2009, 07:50 PM
For the sarcasm to work, you should have typed.

It WILL be nice to have that top 5 pick in the next draft.... Oh, wait.....

We will...when the Bears win 4 games...

Tned
08-23-2009, 07:56 PM
We will...when the Bears win 4 games...

Let's hope so.

MOtorboat
08-23-2009, 07:58 PM
Let's hope so.

Ndamukong Suh

SmilinAssasSin27
08-23-2009, 08:08 PM
Eric Berry

MOtorboat
08-23-2009, 08:09 PM
Eric Berry

Safeties are overrated...:coffee:

SmilinAssasSin27
08-23-2009, 08:13 PM
apparently not

SmilinAssasSin27
08-23-2009, 08:14 PM
Safeties are overrated...:coffee:

Shut yo mouf!

Gamechanger
08-23-2009, 08:15 PM
one guy to think about

Troy Smith, he'd flourish in this offense, and he was a former Heisman winner

SmilinAssasSin27
08-23-2009, 08:16 PM
I love Troy Smith. I think he showed glimpses when he did play in 07. He's one I'd love to see get a shot somewhere. Some guys are winners. I think he's one of em.

MOtorboat
08-23-2009, 08:18 PM
he was a former Heisman winner

So were Danny Wuerffel, Gino Torretta, Andre Ware and Ty Detmer...

SmilinAssasSin27
08-23-2009, 08:19 PM
So were Danny Wuerffel, Gino Torretta, Andre Ware and Ty Detmer...

All very nice options, eh?:beer:

topscribe
08-23-2009, 08:20 PM
No, not really. I waited until Plummer performed in Denver before I jumped on his bandwagon, I didn't try and sell people on how great he was based on AZ stats. Time will tell if Orton can win in Denver like Plummer did, but no matter how much his praises are sung, it won't change the fact that right now, he has done nothing.

Neither did I. Frankly, when Plummer joined Denver, I knew little about him as
a Pro. Only from college was I aware of him, and I did not research him as I
have Orton. I followed him after he came to the Broncos, and I learned to like
him from what he did as a Bronco. But I seldom used AZ stats in my arguments
because his AZ stats weren't all that good, frankly. So you are wrong about me
there, too.

Regarding our implication that I am trying to say how "great" Orton is, wrong
again. I am doing nothing of the sort. I am only trying to correct some false
assertions about him by people who know nothing of him. Regarding how he
will do, I have often said that, although I expect him to do well, I'm in a wait-
and-see mode myself. So your apparent allusion that I am promoting Orton as
the next Franchise Quarterback is as left-field erroneous as was your claim
that I was comparing Orton to Cutler.

-----

MOtorboat
08-23-2009, 08:20 PM
All very nice options, eh?:beer:

Just thinking outside the box...

SmilinAssasSin27
08-23-2009, 08:22 PM
Just thinking outside the box...

That's a pretty big ******* box.

Tned
08-23-2009, 08:39 PM
Neither did I. Frankly, when Plummer joined Denver, I knew little about him as
a Pro. Only from college was I aware of him, and I did not research him as I
have Orton. I followed him after he came to the Broncos, and I learned to like
him from what he did as a Bronco. But I seldom used AZ stats in my arguments
because his AZ stats weren't all that good, frankly. So you are wrong about me
there, too.

Regarding our implication that I am trying to say how "great" Orton is, wrong
again. I am doing nothing of the sort. I am only trying to correct some false
assertions about him by people who know nothing of him. Regarding how he
will do, I have often said that, although I expect him to do well, I'm in a wait-
and-see mode myself. So your apparent allusion that I am promoting Orton as
the next Franchise Quarterback is as left-field erroneous as was your claim
that I was comparing Orton to Cutler.

-----

Top, clearly when you post Orton's stats next to Cutler's from the beginning of last year, a 'reasonable' person (using legal jargon) would conclude you are comparing Orton and Cutler.

That factual technicality out of the way, look at your many, many long posts about Orton. You are pumping Orton more than Jordan pumped Gatorade and Haynes in his heyday. That's your choice, there's nothing wrong with it, but people (myself included) don't like being sold so heavily, regardless of whether the saleman is right or it is even in our best interest.

I HOPE you are right, and I am not anti-Orton, I am simply takin a wait and see approach and realize he still has a lot to prove in Denver.

Lonestar
08-23-2009, 08:57 PM
OK folks let not get personal here.. and lets

:focus:

topscribe
08-23-2009, 09:04 PM
Top, clearly when you post Orton's stats next to Cutler's from the beginning of last year, a 'reasonable' person (using legal jargon) would conclude you are comparing Orton and Cutler.

That factual technicality out of the way, look at your many, many long posts about Orton. You are pumping Orton more than Jordan pumped Gatorade and Haynes in his heyday. That's your choice, there's nothing wrong with it, but people (myself included) don't like being sold so heavily, regardless of whether the saleman is right or it is even in our best interest.

I HOPE you are right, and I am not anti-Orton, I am simply takin a wait and see approach and realize he still has a lot to prove in Denver.

Then don't be sold. But stop misrepresenting me. It's wearing thin now. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thannoyed.gif

And please speak for yourself.

-----

TXBRONC
08-23-2009, 09:13 PM
Then don't be sold. But stop misrepresenting me. It's wearing thin now. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thannoyed.gif

And please speak for yourself.

-----

Honestly Top he's not just speaking for himself and that's ok with me.

Tned
08-23-2009, 09:14 PM
Then don't be sold. But stop misrepresenting me. It's wearing thin now. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thannoyed.gif

And please speak for yourself.

-----

I didn't realize I was offending you or you would attack me. I will try and refrain from responding to your Orton posts, and I am not a Orton hater.

MOtorboat
08-23-2009, 09:15 PM
I am not a Orton hater.

Fooled me...

Lonestar
08-23-2009, 09:18 PM
OK folks let not get personal here.. and lets

:focus:

OK lets try this again..

topscribe
08-23-2009, 09:23 PM
I didn't realize I was offending you or you would attack me. I will try and refrain from responding to your Orton posts, and I am not a Orton hater.

Guess you didn't pick up on that. Since you were saying things about me that
were in error, I thought I would return the favor.

So I'll try again: I have spoken out against comparing Cutler to Orton from the
beginning. When talking about Cutler, I was interested in Cutler. When talking
about Orton, I was interested in Orton. If I mentioned the two in the same post,
there was a purpose to that, and that purpose was not argue as to who is the
better quarterback. I'm too old to get into a "my daddy can beat up your daddy"
argument. I really don't know why some people can't read what I say, rather
than assume what they think I'm saying.

-----

TXBRONC
08-23-2009, 09:26 PM
Fooled me...

I've read plenty of Tned's post I've nver come away with feeling he hates Orton.

Tned
08-23-2009, 09:30 PM
Guess you didn't pick up on that. Since you were saying things about me that
were in error, I thought I would return the favor.

So I'll try again: I have spoken out against comparing Cutler to Orton from the
beginning. When talking about Cutler, I was interested in Cutler. When talking
about Orton, I was interested in Orton. If I mentioned the two in the same post,
there was a purpose to that, and that purpose was not argue as to who is the
better quarterback. I'm too old to get into a "my daddy can beat up your daddy"
argument. I really don't know why some people can't read what I say, rather
than assume what they think I'm saying.

-----

Top, based on what you posted earlier, it is clear it is best we don't continue to discuss this.

Let's just agree to disagree.

MOtorboat
08-23-2009, 09:31 PM
I've read plenty of Tned's post I've come away with feeling he hates Orton.

I know.

TXBRONC
08-23-2009, 09:32 PM
I know.

I'm sorry I didn't recognize the sarcasm.

Tned
08-23-2009, 09:35 PM
I've read plenty of Tned's post I've come away with feeling he hates Orton.


Fooled me...

Takng a wait and see attitude, vs. gushing over a QB, is much different than hating him.

I'm sure you guys have also seen me saying that "except" for the three INTs in the first game, I thought Orton played very well, and relaying that a host on Sirius said much the same when he said it might have been the best three INT performance he had ever seen -- meaning if you take those INTs away, Orton played very well.

It goes back to what we were saying in the other thread, people are expect to be all or nothing, you have to gush over the QB or hate him, you can't travel in the middle ground (often known as reality) and criticize him when he does something to deserve criticism, and praise him when he does something good.

Same with the head coach.

I'm one of the few people that feel that Cutler and McDaniels screwed the pooch, and I continue to believe that.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, I think you guys are just Tned Haters!!!! :laugh: :lol: :laugh:

Lonestar
08-23-2009, 09:38 PM
Takng a wait and see attitude, vs. gushing over a QB, is much different than hating him.

I'm sure you guys have also seen me saying that "except" for the three INTs in the first game, I thought Orton played very well, and relaying that a host on Sirius said much the same when he said it might have been the best three INT performance he had ever seen -- meaning if you take those INTs away, Orton played very well.

It goes back to what we were saying in the other thread, people are expect to be all or nothing, you have to gush over the QB or hate him, you can't travel in the middle ground (often known as reality) and criticize him when he does something to deserve criticism, and praise him when he does something good.

Same with the head coach.

I'm one of the few people that feel that Cutler and McDaniels screwed the pooch, and I continue to believe that.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, I think you guys are just Tned Haters!!!! :laugh: :lol: :laugh:


I would also bet that if he had not thrown that pick you would have mostly likey said he had a hell of game..

TXBRONC
08-23-2009, 09:40 PM
Takng a wait and see attitude, vs. gushing over a QB, is much different than hating him.

I'm sure you guys have also seen me saying that "except" for the three INTs in the first game, I thought Orton played very well, and relaying that a host on Sirius said much the same when he said it might have been the best three INT performance he had ever seen -- meaning if you take those INTs away, Orton played very well.

It goes back to what we were saying in the other thread, people are expect to be all or nothing, you have to gush over the QB or hate him, you can't travel in the middle ground (often known as reality) and criticize him when he does something to deserve criticism, and praise him when he does something good.

Same with the head coach.

I'm one of the few people that feel that Cutler and McDaniels screwed the pooch, and I continue to believe that.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, I think you guys are just Tned Haters!!!! :laugh: :lol: :laugh:

Crap: I meant to say "I've never come away with feeling that you hate Orton.

Thinking back, you tried to take the same approach with Plummer in 2006.

MOtorboat
08-23-2009, 09:43 PM
Takng a wait and see attitude, vs. gushing over a QB, is much different than hating him.

Funny you say this...

Tned
08-23-2009, 09:44 PM
I would also bet that if he had not thrown that pick you would have mostly likey said he had a hell of game..

I still think he had a good game, and after I thought about it some, I came to the conclusion that if he had connected on it, we would all be singing a different tune. Thought about how ridiculous the ridicule (kind of like using ridicule twice here) of Jake was for trying to make a play and throwing a darn good spiral with his left hand.

Orton had a 131 passer rating in the first quarter, and but for a few bad throws, a great pass defense by Hillis breaking up a completion to Jordan, and the boneheaded left hand play, Orton played well.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am concerned about 4 picks in two games. Orton is supposed to be a cerebral player. However, I also realize he is learning a new system and has new players around him.

I don't know if the delay of game stuff was him or McDaniels, but again, I attribute that to everything being new.

Can I honestly sit here and say that I think Orton is going to light things up and be in the MVP running? No. Am I cautiously optimistic following the first two games about both Orton and the offense in general? yes.

Tned
08-23-2009, 09:46 PM
Crap: I meant to say "I've never come away with feeling that you hate Orton.



I figured that's what you meant, but figured if I quoted you too, then MO wouldn't feel singled out. ;)


Funny you say this...

Funny you say that. My wife is always saying I am not as funny as I think I am, but I am pretty sure she is wrong, and I am pretty damn funny. :laugh:

TXBRONC
08-23-2009, 09:49 PM
I still think he had a good game, and after I thought about it some, I came to the conclusion that if he had connected on it, we would all be singing a different tune. Thought about how ridiculous the ridicule (kind of like using ridicule twice here) of Jake was for trying to make a play and throwing a darn good spiral with his left hand.

Orton had a 131 passer rating in the first quarter, and but for a few bad throws, a great pass defense by Hillis breaking up a completion to Jordan, and the boneheaded left hand play, Orton played well.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am concerned about 4 picks in two games. Orton is supposed to be a cerebral player. However, I also realize he is learning a new system and has new players around him.

I don't know if the delay of game stuff was him or McDaniels, but again, I attribute that to everything being new.

Can I honestly sit here and say that I think Orton is going to light things up and be in the MVP running? No. Am I cautiously optimistic following the first two games about both Orton and the offense in general? yes.

While I'm still concerns about Orton I do admit overall he did play a lot better.

BigSarge87
08-23-2009, 10:04 PM
RANT WARNING!!

I am so tired of hearing all this crap about Orton being horrible. During both preseason games, during Sportcenter, Total Access, etc. I keep hearing 'It was a bad move trading Orton for Cutler', so on and so forth. Well here's a news flash for everyone.......

THE BRONCOS DIDN'T TRADE CUTLER FOR ORTON

JMcD didn't think Orton was better than Cutler so he went after him. He traded Cutler for the picks AND Orton because that was the best deal he could get and it was way more than anyone thought he would get. Here's another news flash for everyone

JAY CUTLER IS BETTER THAN KYLE ORTON

No kidding? That's a revelation for the ages, isnt' it? I don't remember anyone ever saying Orton was better. He's not. SO STOP COMPARING THE TWO as if it's some giant story that Cutler is a better passer.Orton is not going to go to the HoF as a Bronco QB. He's not even the long term answer to the QB problem BUT

HE IS CAPABLE OF SCORING A LOT OF POINTS IN THIS SYSTEM.

We have new coaches, a new system, new players, new management, a new philosophy, new almost everything. It is absolutley unfair to ask Orton to come in here and look like Tom Brady and win a Superbowl. It's not going to happen. However, in these first two games he's shown that THE POTENTIAL IS THERE for success. He's managed the offense and drove the field consistently. He's never been prone to turnovers or bad decisions so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt (because I'm a Broncos supporter) those things will even out after the season gets going.

Give these guys some time. I love the new attitude, I love the way the guys who are there are giving it all they have. We are an EXTREMELY young team WITH A GREAT ATTITUDE. It's been a long time since I saw that in Denver.

Nothing pisses me off more that seeing some arrogant, greedy a-hole lifting up the Lambardi Trophy. It goes against everything I value and believe in in life. I DON'T WANT TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP until we rid our team of all these attitudes. In fact here's a good idea:

Take the contract that Brandon Marshall wants and give it to Eddie Royal, or Peyton Hillis. SHOW THE ENTIRE LEAGUE that being a Denver Bronco means playing your ass off on every snap and TEAM comes before anything else and if you do this, your going to get taken care of. If the whole team LIVES by this, then we're going to win a championship, it's a scientific fact.

I believe JMcD has this same attitude and that's why I'm supporting him through all of this. Eventually, maybe not this year, but eventually, that Championship attitude will prevail.

FYI, I don't have a lot of posts becuase I like what I say to mean something but I'm not a freaking newb so get that crap out of here. Like I said, I'm venting here so back off.

topscribe
08-23-2009, 10:09 PM
Top, based on what you posted earlier, it is clear it is best we don't continue to discuss this.

Let's just agree to disagree.

No, I am not going to "agree to disagree" about erroneous statements made
about me. You came out and implied I am a "cheerleader" and "groupie" of Orton
and that I was trying to argue that Orton is a better QB than Cutler. I had to
post corrections to that because I am none of that. I just tried to publish the
facts is all. If that is too much for some people . . . well, I guess that's just the
nature of a message board. :coffee:

-----

topscribe
08-23-2009, 10:11 PM
RANT WARNING!!

I am so tired of hearing all this crap about Orton being horrible. During both preseason games, during Sportcenter, Total Access, etc. I keep hearing 'It was a bad move trading Orton for Cutler', so on and so forth. Well here's a news flash for everyone.......

THE BRONCOS DIDN'T TRADE CUTLER FOR ORTON

JMcD didn't think Orton was better than Cutler so he went after him. He traded Cutler for the picks AND Orton because that was the best deal he could get and it was way more than anyone thought he would get. Here's another news flash for everyone

JAY CUTLER IS BETTER THAN KYLE ORTON

No kidding? That's a revelation for the ages, isnt' it? I don't remember anyone ever saying Orton was better. He's not. SO STOP COMPARING THE TWO as if it's some giant story that Cutler is a better passer.Orton is not going to go to the HoF as a Bronco QB. He's not even the long term answer to the QB problem BUT

HE IS CAPABLE OF SCORING A LOT OF POINTS IN THIS SYSTEM.

We have new coaches, a new system, new players, new management, a new philosophy, new almost everything. It is absolutley unfair to ask Orton to come in here and look like Tom Brady and win a Superbowl. It's not going to happen. However, in these first two games he's shown that THE POTENTIAL IS THERE for success. He's managed the offense and drove the field consistently. He's never been prone to turnovers or bad decisions so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt (because I'm a Broncos supporter) those things will even out after the season gets going.

Give these guys some time. I love the new attitude, I love the way the guys who are there are giving it all they have. We are an EXTREMELY young team WITH A GREAT ATTITUDE. It's been a long time since I saw that in Denver.

Nothing pisses me off more that seeing some arrogant, greedy a-hole lifting up the Lambardi Trophy. It goes against everything I value and believe in in life. I DON'T WANT TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP until we rid our team of all these attitudes. In fact here's a good idea:

Take the contract that Brandon Marshall wants and give it to Eddie Royal, or Peyton Hillis. SHOW THE ENTIRE LEAGUE that being a Denver Bronco means playing your ass off on every snap and TEAM comes before anything else and if you do this, your going to get taken care of. If the whole team LIVES by this, then we're going to win a championship, it's a scientific fact.

I believe JMcD has this same attitude and that's why I'm supporting him through all of this. Eventually, maybe not this year, but eventually, that Championship attitude will prevail.

FYI, I don't have a lot of posts becuase I like what I say to mean something but I'm not a freaking newb so get that crap out of here. Like I said, I'm venting here so back off.

Thank you. You said largely what I've been trying to say. Only you said it better. :salute:

-----

Ravage!!!
08-23-2009, 10:22 PM
I'd personally take a trophy with a team full of a-holes than not with a team full of nice guys

Tned
08-23-2009, 10:25 PM
No, I am not going to "agree to disagree" about erroneous statements made
about me. You came out and implied I am a "cheerleader" and "groupie" of Orton
and that I was trying to argue that Orton is a better QB than Cutler. I had to
post corrections to that because I am none of that. I just tried to publish the
facts is all. If that is too much for some people . . . well, I guess that's just the
nature of a message board. :coffee:

-----

First, I am not Lex, so let's not call me by his name again. TIA.

Second, I will agree to disagree, because this has gotten to the point of being one step short of nasty, and i am not going there.

Tned
08-23-2009, 10:36 PM
THE BRONCOS DIDN'T TRADE CUTLER FOR ORTON

JMcD didn't think Orton was better than Cutler so he went after him. He traded Cutler for the picks AND Orton because that was the best deal he could get and it was way more than anyone thought he would get. Here's another news flash for everyone


First good post. I don't agree with your Marhsall stance, but overall great post.

One point of clarification. We don't know that Chicago was the best deal.

First, the deal happened very fast, so we don't know how much discussion took place with other teams.

Second, the talking heads, Peter King, Scheffter and others said the price would be two first round picks and likely a QB in return, and I don't remember how many team they said were interested, but it was quite a few. Reportedly, Detroit wanted to trade both of their '09 firsts for Cutler, but the Broncos didn't want the price tag of the first overall pick.

Third, according the Peter King and other 'experts', Orton was what seeled the deal. He says that the three QB's he was considering was Jason Campbell, Orton and McCowen, and that after reviewing film on all of them, and watching 10 games of Orton's play (pretty specific number), he became very impressed with Orton, and that is why he traded Cutler to Chicago.

broncophan
08-24-2009, 01:36 AM
RANT WARNING!!

I am so tired of hearing all this crap about Orton being horrible. During both preseason games, during Sportcenter, Total Access, etc. I keep hearing 'It was a bad move trading Orton for Cutler', so on and so forth. Well here's a news flash for everyone.......

THE BRONCOS DIDN'T TRADE CUTLER FOR ORTON

JMcD didn't think Orton was better than Cutler so he went after him. He traded Cutler for the picks AND Orton because that was the best deal he could get and it was way more than anyone thought he would get. Here's another news flash for everyone

JAY CUTLER IS BETTER THAN KYLE ORTON

No kidding? That's a revelation for the ages, isnt' it? I don't remember anyone ever saying Orton was better. He's not. SO STOP COMPARING THE TWO as if it's some giant story that Cutler is a better passer.Orton is not going to go to the HoF as a Bronco QB. He's not even the long term answer to the QB problem BUT

HE IS CAPABLE OF SCORING A LOT OF POINTS IN THIS SYSTEM.

We have new coaches, a new system, new players, new management, a new philosophy, new almost everything. It is absolutley unfair to ask Orton to come in here and look like Tom Brady and win a Superbowl. It's not going to happen. However, in these first two games he's shown that THE POTENTIAL IS THERE for success. He's managed the offense and drove the field consistently. He's never been prone to turnovers or bad decisions so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt (because I'm a Broncos supporter) those things will even out after the season gets going.

Give these guys some time. I love the new attitude, I love the way the guys who are there are giving it all they have. We are an EXTREMELY young team WITH A GREAT ATTITUDE. It's been a long time since I saw that in Denver.

Nothing pisses me off more that seeing some arrogant, greedy a-hole lifting up the Lambardi Trophy. It goes against everything I value and believe in in life. I DON'T WANT TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP until we rid our team of all these attitudes. In fact here's a good idea:

Take the contract that Brandon Marshall wants and give it to Eddie Royal, or Peyton Hillis. SHOW THE ENTIRE LEAGUE that being a Denver Bronco means playing your ass off on every snap and TEAM comes before anything else and if you do this, your going to get taken care of. If the whole team LIVES by this, then we're going to win a championship, it's a scientific fact.

I believe JMcD has this same attitude and that's why I'm supporting him through all of this. Eventually, maybe not this year, but eventually, that Championship attitude will prevail.

FYI, I don't have a lot of posts becuase I like what I say to mean something but I'm not a freaking newb so get that crap out of here. Like I said, I'm venting here so back off.

Jesus.....I don't think I have ever been so afraid after reading a post...lol

Good post......I agree with alot of what you are saying.....

topscribe
08-24-2009, 02:15 AM
I'd personally take a trophy with a team full of a-holes than not with a team full of nice guys

I was a fan of Romanowski's. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

topscribe
08-24-2009, 02:18 AM
First, I am not Lex, so let's not call me by his name again. TIA.

Second, I will agree to disagree, because this has gotten to the point of being one step short of nasty, and i am not going there.

No problem. I was not going to allow it to turn nasty.

I had a point to make, and I made it. Now I'm outta here. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

Dirk
08-24-2009, 05:47 AM
Wow...this thread sure went all over the place. ha! (don't they all??)

Anyway, there isn't a QB out there to trade for...

/thread

Nomad
08-24-2009, 06:27 AM
I was a fan of Romanowski's. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

At least Romo beat up football players.....just saying;)! When I'm at work I tell my co-workers 'I am not here to be your friend just to get a job done and get paid so if you think I'm an a-hole then so-be-it'.

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 07:09 AM
we must do something...Orton isn't going to cut it!

if we do nothing, at least we'll have a crappy season and we can take Colt McCoy in the draft, but we can definitely plan on rebuilding for the next 2 or 3 years, winning is not something that is going to show itself quickly in Denver.

we're in for a long season, very long. and a very tumultuous couple of years.

If Orton starts the entire season, I wouldn't be surprised to see McDumbass fired after this season.

These are the only lines I need to read to understand just how much you know about QB's and the NFL.

SOCALORADO.
08-24-2009, 08:52 AM
RANT WARNING!!

I am so tired of hearing all this crap about Orton being horrible. During both preseason games, during Sportcenter, Total Access, etc. I keep hearing 'It was a bad move trading Orton for Cutler', so on and so forth. Well here's a news flash for everyone.......

THE BRONCOS DIDN'T TRADE CUTLER FOR ORTON

JMcD didn't think Orton was better than Cutler so he went after him. He traded Cutler for the picks AND Orton because that was the best deal he could get and it was way more than anyone thought he would get. Here's another news flash for everyone

JAY CUTLER IS BETTER THAN KYLE ORTON

No kidding? That's a revelation for the ages, isnt' it? I don't remember anyone ever saying Orton was better. He's not. SO STOP COMPARING THE TWO as if it's some giant story that Cutler is a better passer.Orton is not going to go to the HoF as a Bronco QB. He's not even the long term answer to the QB problem BUT

HE IS CAPABLE OF SCORING A LOT OF POINTS IN THIS SYSTEM.

We have new coaches, a new system, new players, new management, a new philosophy, new almost everything. It is absolutley unfair to ask Orton to come in here and look like Tom Brady and win a Superbowl. It's not going to happen. However, in these first two games he's shown that THE POTENTIAL IS THERE for success. He's managed the offense and drove the field consistently. He's never been prone to turnovers or bad decisions so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt (because I'm a Broncos supporter) those things will even out after the season gets going.

Give these guys some time. I love the new attitude, I love the way the guys who are there are giving it all they have. We are an EXTREMELY young team WITH A GREAT ATTITUDE. It's been a long time since I saw that in Denver.

Nothing pisses me off more that seeing some arrogant, greedy a-hole lifting up the Lambardi Trophy. It goes against everything I value and believe in in life. I DON'T WANT TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP until we rid our team of all these attitudes. In fact here's a good idea:

Take the contract that Brandon Marshall wants and give it to Eddie Royal, or Peyton Hillis. SHOW THE ENTIRE LEAGUE that being a Denver Bronco means playing your ass off on every snap and TEAM comes before anything else and if you do this, your going to get taken care of. If the whole team LIVES by this, then we're going to win a championship, it's a scientific fact.

I believe JMcD has this same attitude and that's why I'm supporting him through all of this. Eventually, maybe not this year, but eventually, that Championship attitude will prevail.

FYI, I don't have a lot of posts becuase I like what I say to mean something but I'm not a freaking newb so get that crap out of here. Like I said, I'm venting here so back off.

AGREED.

O-tron looks great between the 20s. Precise, fluid, and accurate. Throws are sharp and has alot of velocity to them. He looks just like Tom Brady. Shoot, the guy is changing plays at the LOS, and making adjustments accordingly.
ITs once the Broncos get into the red zone that O-tron has trouble. He suddenly goes from looking like Brady, to looking like a drunk Plummer!
hopefully MCD gets that ironed out by regular season, cuase that kinda crap will cause a riot in DEN!
I do think the offense runs great without MArshall, and that DEN should still look at trading for a QB.
MAybe not Derek Anderson, who i dont think is any better than Orton overall, but a solid backup to push him a bit. Say, a Chase Danel or Colt Brennan who both can run the Spread, and both have ironically looked better at running their respective offensive systems than the starter on their team! Both look really comfortable and although they might make a mistake or 2, thay are playing against and with second stringers, but they look really solid none the less. Simms is nothing more than a weak west coast offense system QB, who will never run MCDs system the way he wants to. Of course hes making 6 mil so he more than likely stays. Marshall in a trade should get DEN at least a
2nd rounder along with a prosective QB.
Wont happen though.

Traveler
08-24-2009, 09:05 AM
AGREED.

O-tron looks great between the 20s. Precise, fluid, and accurate. Throws are sharp and has alot of velocity to them. He looks just like Tom Brady. Shoot, the guy is changing plays at the LOS, and making adjustments accordingly.
ITs once the Broncos get into the red zone that O-tron has trouble. He suddenly goes from looking like Brady, to looking like a drunk Plummer!


Hmmm...

I swear someone said the exact same thing about Cutler's performance last season.:D

claymore
08-24-2009, 09:09 AM
Cutler's problems in the redzone were caused by a lack of running back/s. Im sure he will do well with Forte.

MOtorboat
08-24-2009, 09:12 AM
Cutler's problems in the redzone were caused by a lack of running back/s. Im sure he will do well with Forte.

Yeah, because the running back is why a quarterback can't complete passes or throws interceptions...

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 09:18 AM
Yeah, because the running back is why a quarterback can't complete passes or throws interceptions...

You didnt know it was the running back that forced a pass off the end of the strongest arm ever into triple coverage instead of throwing it away? Come on man...what were you watching?

claymore
08-24-2009, 09:20 AM
Yeah, because the running back is why a quarterback can't complete passes or throws interceptions...

If the defense knows you are going to throw on every play, every down regardless of the situation it becomes a little more difficult.

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 09:21 AM
If the defense knows you are going to throw on every play, every down regardless of the situation it becomes a little more difficult.

Again...that has nothing to do with forcing a play to happen. Taking 3 points is better than handing the ball over to the defense.

claymore
08-24-2009, 09:22 AM
You didnt know it was the running back that forced a pass off the end of the strongest arm ever into triple coverage instead of throwing it away? Come on man...what were you watching?

If you replace "end of the strongest " with "biggest noodle" The sentence now reflects Nortons performance.

MOtorboat
08-24-2009, 09:22 AM
If the defense knows you are going to throw on every play, every down regardless of the situation it becomes a little more difficult.

We were 12th in the league in rushing.

Poet
08-24-2009, 09:23 AM
Again...that has nothing to do with forcing a play to happen. Taking 3 points is better than handing the ball over to the defense.

What? Hellz noez, boi, throw da damn ball biggy.

claymore
08-24-2009, 09:24 AM
Again...that has nothing to do with forcing a play to happen. Taking 3 points is better than handing the ball over to the defense.
In order to stay in games we had to score 7 last year.

claymore
08-24-2009, 09:25 AM
We were 12th in the league in rushing.

2nd in the league in passing.

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 09:25 AM
If you replace "end of the strongest " with "biggest noodle" The sentence now reflects Nortons performance.

Have you ever seen Orton play? Seriously? If you or anyone has and can still say Orton has a "noodle arm" than you need to readjust your tv or re-evaluate his ability.

Is it as strong as Cutler's? No...apparently no one in history ever had that arm. But it's certainly the furthest thing from a "noodle"...and he doesnt force passes into triple coverage.

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 09:26 AM
In order to stay in games we had to score 7 last year.

Does that reflect the running game or the defense?

Let's lay the blame where it properly belongs.

claymore
08-24-2009, 09:26 AM
2nd in the league in passing.

3rd. :rolleyes:

NightTrainLayne
08-24-2009, 09:29 AM
You didnt know it was the running back that forced a pass off the end of the strongest arm ever into triple coverage instead of throwing it away? Come on man...what were you watching?

That was Cutler's biggest problem. Just not throwing it away when it's not there. He'll probably get better at that as he matures.

claymore
08-24-2009, 09:30 AM
Does that reflect the running game or the defense?

Let's lay the blame where it properly belongs.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Cutler is the least of it.

claymore
08-24-2009, 09:31 AM
That was Cutler's biggest problem. Just not throwing it away when it's not there. He'll probably get better at that as he matures.

He was a third year QB with the worst defense in the NFL, and a backfield that looked like a VA hospital waiting room. I think he did pretty good considering.

MOtorboat
08-24-2009, 09:35 AM
That was Cutler's biggest problem. Just not throwing it away when it's not there. He'll probably get better at that as he matures.

Or he won't...

http://thecollegefootballreview.com/images/MiscHumorous/JeffGeorgeColts.jpg

claymore
08-24-2009, 09:43 AM
Or he won't...

http://thecollegefootballreview.com/images/MiscHumorous/JeffGeorgeColts.jpg

Im trying to think of a flop backup QB to compare Norton to.

topscribe
08-24-2009, 10:17 AM
AGREED.

O-tron looks great between the 20s. Precise, fluid, and accurate. Throws are sharp and has alot of velocity to them. He looks just like Tom Brady. Shoot, the guy is changing plays at the LOS, and making adjustments accordingly.
ITs once the Broncos get into the red zone that O-tron has trouble. He suddenly goes from looking like Brady, to looking like a drunk Plummer!

That's not entirely true. In fact, the red zone is where Orton has excelled. He
had a 96-something QB rating in the red zone last year, and his passes have
been crisp and accurate down there (except the left-handed one, of course).
His pass that Gaffney dropped was perfectly placed.

And the interception in the end zone the week before was just a great defensive
play. I replayed that and tried to look at it through the QB's eyes. It was easy
to see how Orton thought the defender was going the other way, when the
defender suddenly stopped and ran in front of the receiver. Just a terrific
defensive play.

How Orton performs in the red zone is the least of my worries.

-----

MOtorboat
08-24-2009, 10:20 AM
Im trying to think of a flop backup QB to compare Norton to.

I like it. Kyle "Norton" Orton.

Getting rid of viruses...

http://media.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/content/img/photos/2008/09/16/437061940_t600.jpg

topscribe
08-24-2009, 10:24 AM
He was a third year QB with the worst defense in the NFL, and a backfield that looked like a VA hospital waiting room. I think he did pretty good considering.

I agree. I think so, too (even though the Broncos were #3 in the league in
rushing YPC).

My having said that, was it you or somebody else who accused me of "excuses"
when when I mentioned that Orton was essentially a second-year QB (actually
on the field) last year with the #30 defense against the pass, #27 in offensive
rushing (YPC), and one of the worst O-lines and WR corps in the league?

I think he also did pretty good . . . considering. :coffee:



I like it. Kyle "Norton" Orton.

Getting rid of viruses...


I guess some just consider the use of derogatory nicknames as intelligent
debate? :noidea:

-----

SOCALORADO.
08-24-2009, 10:43 AM
That's not entirely true. In fact, the red zone is where Orton has excelled. He
had a 96-something QB rating in the red zone last year, and his passes have
been crisp and accurate down there (except the left-handed one, of course).
His pass that Gaffney dropped was perfectly placed.

And the interception in the end zone the week before was just a great defensive
play. I replayed that and tried to look at it through the QB's eyes. It was easy
to see how Orton thought the defender was going the other way, when the
defender suddenly stopped and ran in front of the receiver. Just a terrific
defensive play.

How Orton performs in the red zone is the least of my worries.

-----


Meh. INTS are INTS. Period. the same could be said for Plummer. There just excuses. He didnt make the right plays (throw it away, take the 3) and instead made a bad play. Of course when your going for it on 4th down, you STILL throw it away.
O-tron does have the talent to run the offense and put up huge #s though. He really looks solid and the offensive scheme is working for him. Hopefully these kinks can be ironed out in the next 20 days.
I would like to see the offense with Marshall/Royal/Stokley/Sheffler/Hillis on the field in this system. That could be very, very potent.
I am also sick of Marshall and his excuses. Dude is an idiot, and needs to be on the field with a firm grasp of the system, running routes and making plays. This offense could be all world if he gets his act together.
Orton has made HUGE strides every game, and thats encouraging.
Hopefully he puts it all together next game, and has the analysts and "experts" buzzing about him instead of cutler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ravage!!!
08-24-2009, 10:46 AM
#3 in rushing ypc is SUCH a ridiculously overrated stat. We were throwing the ball 40 times a game. The defense were constantly in blitzes and pass rushing mode while dropping back to defend in zones. They (the opposing defensive coordinators and players) weren't concerned about our running game one bit. Not hard to gain some 'extra yards' rushing when everyone is either back peddling away from you, or rushing past you to get to the pocket.

Of course Cutler forced passes. Thats what young QB do, they make bad/rash decisions. Especially when they feel confident in their arm and feel they can get it there faster than the defender can. Most of the time they can. Thats why maturing in the NFL is all about.

But the fact is the pressure was on ALLL the offensive players. Our defense was giving up 30+ points in half the games. We had to keep up in scoring, and that means to score 30+ points to do it. Thats a ton for ANY offense, and certainly so for a young offense (not just a young QB). All the players on our offense last year pressed each and every time they were on the field. They had to.

But Orton has NOT looked good in the Red zone. Not only did he throw the INT in week one (preseason), but basically threw one in this last game (the defender was looking at the other endzone and just flat out dropped it), then pulled out the left handed decision.

Whats something to consider is that Matt Cassel (same number of years in the league as Orton) last year (under the direction of our coach) was LAST in the NFL for red-zone efficiency. Which QB is better, Cassel or Orton?? Could be a combination of play calling and the decision making of our veteran QB.

He's a fifth year QB.. period. Not essentially anything. He was beat out by Griese and Grossman for a reason. Its not like you don't see young QBs play all throughout the NFL. You can't tell me he wasn't learning, practicing, working out, going to camps, learning the NFL coverages while watching tapes during those seasons he was watching Brian and Rex start ahead of him. He's not a "third year" QB.. he's a fifth year QB.

topscribe
08-24-2009, 10:56 AM
Meh. INTS are INTS. Period. the same could be said for Plummer. There just excuses. He didnt make the right plays (throw it away, take the 3) and instead made a bad play. Of course when your going for it on 4th down, you STILL throw it away.
O-tron does have the talent to run the offense and put up huge #s though. He really looks solid and the offensive scheme is working for him. Hopefully these kinks can be ironed out in the next 20 days.
I would like to see the offense with Marshall/Royal/Stokley/Sheffler/Hillis on the field in this system. That could be very, very potent.
I am also sick of Marshall and his excuses. Dude is an idiot, and needs to be on the field with a firm grasp of the system, running routes and making plays. This offense could be all world if he gets his act together.
Orton has made HUGE strides every game, and thats encouraging.
Hopefully he puts it all together next game, and has the analysts and "experts" buzzing about him instead of cutler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's where some of us have to get this down: analyzing plays, what
happened and why it happened, is not making excuses.

Now, regarding Marshall . . . oh well, I don't know what to say about that kid.
He is quite the con artist. He even has himself fooled . . .

-----

topscribe
08-24-2009, 11:05 AM
#3 in rushing ypc is SUCH a ridiculously overrated stat. We were throwing the ball 40 times a game. The defense were constantly in blitzes and pass rushing mode while dropping back to defend in zones. They (the opposing defensive coordinators and players) weren't concerned about our running game one bit. Not hard to gain some 'extra yards' rushing when everyone is either back peddling away from you, or rushing past you to get to the pocket.

Of course Cutler forced passes. Thats what young QB do, they make bad/rash decisions. Especially when they feel confident in their arm and feel they can get it there faster than the defender can. Most of the time they can. Thats why maturing in the NFL is all about.

But the fact is the pressure was on ALLL the offensive players. Our defense was giving up 30+ points in half the games. We had to keep up in scoring, and that means to score 30+ points to do it. Thats a ton for ANY offense, and certainly so for a young offense (not just a young QB). All the players on our offense last year pressed each and every time they were on the field. They had to.

But Orton has NOT looked good in the Red zone. Not only did he throw the INT in week one (preseason), but basically threw one in this last game (the defender was looking at the other endzone and just flat out dropped it), then pulled out the left handed decision.

Whats something to consider is that Matt Cassel (same number of years in the league as Orton) last year (under the direction of our coach) was LAST in the NFL for red-zone efficiency. Which QB is better, Cassel or Orton?? Could be a combination of play calling and the decision making of our veteran QB.

He's a fifth year QB.. period. Not essentially anything. He was beat out by Griese and Grossman for a reason. Its not like you don't see young QBs play all throughout the NFL. You can't tell me he wasn't learning, practicing, working out, going to camps, learning the NFL coverages while watching tapes during those seasons he was watching Brian and Rex start ahead of him. He's not a "third year" QB.. he's a fifth year QB.

You don't learn how to tend bar by watching the bartender. You learn by
tending the bar. By the same token, I could watch tapes of surgeons
performing surgery day and night for two years, but I would not come out of
that as a surgeon. You learn that with a scalpel in your hand.

As a QB, you have to be on the field to learn how to play the position on the
NFL level. Had you have ever played to any extent, you would know that.
Orton is a 5th year QB by tenure, but a 3rd year QB de facto on the field.

Now, I would like for you to go back to 2008, check with NFL.com or wherever
you like, and come back and tell me who the starting QB was for the Chicago
Bears, then tell me where Grossman and Griese were that year. Then tell me
they beat Orton out for the job.

-----

SOCALORADO.
08-24-2009, 11:46 AM
You don't learn how to tend bar by watching the bartender. You learn by
tending the bar. By the same token, I could watch tapes of surgeons
performing surgery day and night for two years, but I would not come out of
that as a surgeon. You learn that with a scalpel in your hand.

As a QB, you have to be on the field to learn how to play the position on the
NFL level. Had you have ever played to any extent, you would know that.
Orton is a 5th year QB by tenure, but a 3rd year QB de facto on the field.

Now, I would like for you to go back to 2008, check with NFL.com or wherever
you like, and come back and tell me who the starting QB was for the Chicago
Bears, then tell me where Grossman and Griese were that year. Then tell me
they beat Orton out for the job.

-----

O-tron is getting it, and like i said, its encouraging.
I would just like to see some really dominating drives in the red zone.
He should play till half time until the regular season starts.
The more the better.
I still think DEN should grab Chase Daniel from WASH. He looked great in action and reminded me of Steve Young of all folks!
Zorn must have some kind of technique hes teaching all of his QBs thats really rubbing off on his back ups, cause they look right at home playing for him.
I would just like to see a guy suddenly come in and put a little more pressure on OTRON that would remind him that hes not totally off the hot seat in DEN. Cant hurt. If Brandstater was dropped becuase of it, so what.

Washington Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating
C. Daniel 6 8 58 75.0 7.3 2 12 2 0 134.4

I know he was playing against inferior talnet, but a solid guy who has some leadership and actual big time playing ability cant hurt to maybe groom.
Brandstater looks like he took a bong hit before he went out there!

TXBRONC
08-24-2009, 11:55 AM
You don't learn how to tend bar by watching the bartender. You learn by
tending the bar. By the same token, I could watch tapes of surgeons
performing surgery day and night for two years, but I would not come out of
that as a surgeon. You learn that with a scalpel in your hand.

As a QB, you have to be on the field to learn how to play the position on the
NFL level. Had you have ever played to any extent, you would know that.
Orton is a 5th year QB by tenure, but a 3rd year QB de facto on the field.

Now, I would like for you to go back to 2008, check with NFL.com or wherever
you like, and come back and tell me who the starting QB was for the Chicago
Bears, then tell me where Grossman and Griese were that year. Then tell me
they beat Orton out for the job.

-----

Orton is not a de facto 3rd year quarterback he is 5th year quarterback. We are not talking about quarterback that's been moth balls for last four. To call him a de facto 3rd year is saying he gets a pass on any mistake he make. "He threw a left handed pass even though he is right handed. O wait a minute he's a de facto 3rd year quarterback therefore it is excusable."

I'm not saying he'll be a terrible quarterback overall he or that with every mistake he makes that he should be raked over the coals. Going by what I saw Saturday night it looks like with time he will be better.

underrated29
08-24-2009, 11:57 AM
I didnt read through all this. But here is one thing i have yet to see anyone mention.

We have almost exclusively passed it in the redzone. Jordan had 1 or 2 runs that was it.


Do you honestly belive that when we have 2nd and goal from the 1, that we arent going to run it. Hillis is going to pound that in there. Hell, we had 2nd and goal, 3rd and goal and even 4th and goal from the 1.

Mcdaniels wants our qbs, wr,te to get used to the routes. I can guarantee you that in real games where it counts. We are going to pound that ball for 1 measly yard.


When the run game is there, the pass opens up. Its the defense that still has me worried. I like the sacks, i dont like the big gains and the 0 turnovers.

TXBRONC
08-24-2009, 12:00 PM
I didnt read through all this. But here is one thing i have yet to see anyone mention.

We have almost exclusively passed it in the redzone. Jordan had 1 or 2 runs that was it.


Do you honestly belive that when we have 2nd and goal from the 1, that we arent going to run it. Hillis is going to pound that in there. Hell, we had 2nd and goal, 3rd and goal and even 4th and goal from the 1.

Mcdaniels wants our qbs, wr,te to get used to the routes. I can guarantee you that in real games where it counts. We are going to pound that ball for 1 measly yard.


When the run game is there, the pass opens up. Its the defense that still has me worried. I like the sacks, i dont like the big gains and the 0 turnovers.

I full expect that during the regular season he wont always pass in goal to go situation.

Traveler
08-24-2009, 12:01 PM
All I can say is that I'll be glad when this game is over. Gonna be a freaking circus all over again! Cutler will probably be pumped for this game even though it's pre-season.

He'll be out to make a point that the team should have kept him. Bad part is that he'll probably have a good game. We have too many concerns on defense.

Lonestar
08-24-2009, 12:01 PM
That was Cutler's biggest problem. Just not throwing it away when it's not there. He'll probably get better at that as he matures.

his biggest issue IMO was forcing into double and triple coverage deeper instead of getting the sure wide open shorter pass.. I saw it 5-6 times last year and I;m sure there were more of them..

Had he done that those time perhaps other times BM would really have had single coverage from time to time....

the book on him was he forces it to marshall for the big play.. no need to cover mid to short receivers..

I think that was one reason that Josh wanted Cassell in here.. one of many..


jay may grow out of wanting the huge numbers and figure out winning is better.. or he may be the next jeff george doing it his way..

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 12:05 PM
All I can say is that I'll be glad when this game is over. Gonna be a freaking circus all over again! Cutler will probably be pumped for this game even though it's pre-season.

He'll be out to make a point that the team should have kept him. Bad part is that he'll probably have a good game. We have too many concerns on defense.

...and that's the key. No matter how Orton and the offense preogress, it will be for naught if the defense doesnt get it together. Considering there is still a ton of room for imporvement...that's going to be interesting.

Personally, I could care less if Cutler has a good game or not or if Chicago wins or not. What's going to be interesting to me is seeing how many Broncs fans wear a Cutler jersey to the game and applaud him. Regardless of what anyone percieves as to what happened in that debacle...choosing the side of a player over the team is pathetic and sickening. For those that love the team and will be at this game...please throw a battery or two at these ******** for me.

Ravage!!!
08-24-2009, 12:16 PM
Choosing a player's perspective over the team's stance isn't pathetic. That would be suggesting that we should ALWAYS agaree with what the coaches/GM/Owner does, and that can't be true either.

Just because I like Jay Cutler, and don't like that he was traded away doesn't mean I'm "anti-bronco." Nor does it mean that I'm "choosing" a player over an organization. If I wore my Cutler jersey to the game, thats saying that I'm a FAN of the player no matter where he ended up. Thats not a shot at the team or the GM.. and if it is intended that way, that's ANOTHER thing have the rights to express as fans. No different than having the right to express our displeasure with boo's and moans.

We've certainly heard enough moaning and groaning and complaining about the drafts. I guess thats disagreeing with the organization and should be considered pathetic and sickening as well.

I actually consider ANY Broncos fan to even joke about throwing batteries at players to be pretty disgusting.

Traveler
08-24-2009, 12:27 PM
Personally, I could care less if Cutler has a good game or not or if Chicago wins or not.

On this we can agree! Just wish the media and some members of the BF would care less also.

Tned
08-24-2009, 12:29 PM
Orton is not a de facto 3rd year quarterback he is 5th year quarterback. We are not talking about quarterback that's been moth balls for last four. To call him a de facto 3rd year is saying he gets a pass on any mistake he make. "He threw a left handed pass even though he is right handed. O wait a minute he's a de facto 3rd year quarterback therefore it is excusable."

I'm not saying he'll be a terrible quarterback overall he or that with every mistake he makes that he should be raked over the coals. Going by what I saw Saturday night it looks like with time he will be better.

People made the same argument with Cutler in '07. Because he didn't start ALL of '06, only five games, they kept claiming he was a rookie or essentially a rookie in '07. Bottom line, was Cutler qualified for offensive rookie of the year in '07? No. Therefore, he wasn't a rookie.

If someone missed two years with injury and couldn't practice, was completely out of football, then I think a case could be made. Just because a player is either put on the sidelines to learn the job, or fails to win a job, does not make those years not count. When Carson Palmer sat for a year, learning on the sidelines, and then started his second year, he wasn't referred to as a rookie QB.

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 12:31 PM
Choosing a player's perspective over the team's stance isn't pathetic. That would be suggesting that we should ALWAYS agaree with what the coaches/GM/Owner does, and that can't be true either.

Just because I like Jay Cutler, and don't like that he was traded away doesn't mean I'm "anti-bronco." Nor does it mean that I'm "choosing" a player over an organization. If I wore my Cutler jersey to the game, thats saying that I'm a FAN of the player no matter where he ended up. Thats not a shot at the team or the GM.. and if it is intended that way, that's ANOTHER thing have the rights to express as fans. No different than having the right to express our displeasure with boo's and moans.

We've certainly heard enough moaning and groaning and complaining about the drafts. I guess thats disagreeing with the organization and should be considered pathetic and sickening as well.

I actually consider ANY Broncos fan to even joke about throwing batteries at players to be pretty disgusting.

I'm not suggesting we agree with everything the FO does...but I am suggesting that our loyalty lies with the Broncos TEAM and not one member of it.

If anyone is going to tell me that they cheered for the success of Mike Bell, tatum Bell, Brian Griese, kevin Kasper...you name it...but cant cheer for the success of Orton or McDaniels, then they probably need to find a new team to support. Simple

Tned
08-24-2009, 12:31 PM
Me too! Just wish the media and some members of the BF would care less also.

It's just not going to happen. I can't remember did the schedule (or list of opponents, which often comes our earlier) come out before or after the trade?

Just curious if this is some twisted coincidence, or the league set up the match after the trade, knowing it would be a big preseason story.

Ravage!!!
08-24-2009, 12:34 PM
I'm not suggesting we agree with everything the FO does...but I am suggesting that our loyalty lies with the Broncos TEAM and not one member of it.

If anyone is going to tell me that they cheered for the success of Mike Bell, tatum Bell, Brian Griese, kevin Kasper...you name it...but cant cheer for the success of Orton or McDaniels, then they probably need to find a new team to support. Simple

But wearing the #6 Cutler jersey to a Bronco vs Chicago game is taking a player's side over the team?

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 12:37 PM
But wearing the #6 Cutler jersey to a Bronco vs Chicago game is taking a player's side over the team?

Was that the extent of my comment? Or did I say BRONCOS fans wearing Cutler jerseys and cheering for him and his success

Tned
08-24-2009, 12:37 PM
I'm not suggesting we agree with everything the FO does...but I am suggesting that our loyalty lies with the Broncos TEAM and not one member of it.

If anyone is going to tell me that they cheered for the success of Mike Bell, tatum Bell, Brian Griese, kevin Kasper...you name it...but cant cheer for the success of Orton or McDaniels, then they probably need to find a new team to support. Simple

I am a Bronco fan first, and that means over the years a lot of players have come through, some I really like, some not so much. While I supported Plummer and got into heated debates with those that bashed him week in and week out as he plugged along and the team won game after game, I also was excited when we got Cutler.

While I had hoped that Cutler would get a year on the bench to learn, like they did with Palmer, I didn't become a Cutler 'hater' or shanahan 'hater' when Plummer was benched and Cutler started.

We have active feuds going on among posters on BF, that still go back to arguments about whether Jake was a good QB or sucked. Think about that. A QB that hasn't started a game since game 11 of '06, and hasn't been a member of the team since April of '07, and we still have people that attack each other over feuds that started in '04 and '05.

It's ok to be upset that cutler was traded, it's ok to doubt whether Orton is good enough for the Broncos to be a real competitor, but in the end, you can't put a player (love for or hate for) above the team, IMO.

Traveler
08-24-2009, 12:43 PM
It's just not going to happen. I can't remember did the schedule (or list of opponents, which often comes our earlier) come out before or after the trade?

Just curious if this is some twisted coincidence, or the league set up the match after the trade, knowing it would be a big preseason story.

Good questions.

Ravage!!!
08-24-2009, 01:10 PM
...and that's the key. No matter how Orton and the offense preogress, it will be for naught if the defense doesnt get it together. Considering there is still a ton of room for imporvement...that's going to be interesting.

Couldn't agree with you more on this.....

Ravage!!!
08-24-2009, 01:12 PM
Was that the extent of my comment? Or did I say BRONCOS fans wearing Cutler jerseys and cheering for him and his success

Ok.. so this somehow changes your comment or the meaning? It doesn't to me, and I would again ask you the same question.

Bronco fans wearing a #6 jersey tells you they are picking the player over the TEAM???

TXBRONC
08-24-2009, 01:44 PM
People made the same argument with Cutler in '07. Because he didn't start ALL of '06, only five games, they kept claiming he was a rookie or essentially a rookie in '07. Bottom line, was Cutler qualified for offensive rookie of the year in '07? No. Therefore, he wasn't a rookie.

If someone missed two years with injury and couldn't practice, was completely out of football, then I think a case could be made. Just because a player is either put on the sidelines to learn the job, or fails to win a job, does not make those years not count. When Carson Palmer sat for a year, learning on the sidelines, and then started his second year, he wasn't referred to as a rookie QB.

If anyone has a legitmate claim to being a de facto 3rd year quarterback it's Chris Simms. He missed nearly two full seasons because of injury.

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 02:25 PM
Ok.. so this somehow changes your comment or the meaning? It doesn't to me, and I would again ask you the same question.

Bronco fans wearing a #6 jersey tells you they are picking the player over the TEAM???

Not necessarily because that'sot what I said. Read it again. I said Bronco fans wearing a Cutler jersey and applauding his efforts AGAINST the Broncos.

There is a difference in what I said and what you read, but surprise...you choose to ignore it for the basis of your unwarranted claim. I'm shocked

Ravage!!!
08-24-2009, 02:34 PM
.
Personally, I could care less if Cutler has a good game or not or if Chicago wins or not. What's going to be interesting to me is seeing how many Broncs fans wear a Cutler jersey to the game and applaud him. Regardless of what anyone percieves as to what happened in that debacle...choosing the side of a player over the team is pathetic and sickening. For those that love the team and will be at this game...please throw a battery or two at these ******** for me.

Thats not what you said. Wearing a jersey and applauding him is different than what you are trying to say now.... no matter how you meant it the first time. That's why I questioned you on the statement.

Wearing a #6 jersey and applauding him is not taking a player over the team.

But surprise... you choose to make an unwarranted attack.....stunning.

Lonestar
08-24-2009, 02:40 PM
OK folks lets not get personal here..

:focus:

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 02:45 PM
Thats not what you said. Wearing a jersey and applauding him is different than what you are trying to say now.... no matter how you meant it the first time. That's why I questioned you on the statement.

Wearing a #6 jersey and applauding him is not taking a player over the team.

But surprise... you choose to make an unwarranted attack.....stunning.

No, calling you a bitchy fake fan that cant let go of Cutler's sack would be an attack. Calling out fans for supporting an opponent is not

Ravage!!!
08-24-2009, 02:50 PM
I guess I would rather call out fans for supporting the idea of throwing batteries than clapping their hands together for a former player.

CoachChaz
08-24-2009, 03:00 PM
I guess I would rather call out fans for supporting the idea of throwing batteries than clapping their hands together for a former player.

To each their own. Some fans need a battery upside the head from time to time.








:showsravageamirror:

Ravage!!!
08-24-2009, 03:18 PM
To each their own. Some fans need a battery upside the head from time to time.



:showsravageamirror:

DAMN... I'm good lookin'

Northman
08-24-2009, 05:08 PM
Ok.. so this somehow changes your comment or the meaning? It doesn't to me, and I would again ask you the same question.

Bronco fans wearing a #6 jersey tells you they are picking the player over the TEAM???


I have no problem with fans wearing a Bubby Brister jersey.

Northman
08-24-2009, 05:09 PM
If anyone has a legitmate claim to being a de facto 3rd year quarterback it's Chris Simms. He missed nearly two full seasons because of injury.

Unfortuantely, the injury bug isnt leaving him anytime soon.

Tned
08-24-2009, 06:10 PM
Looks like we won't be picking up Rivers in free agency, as he has become the latest $100 million quarterback (ok, only $93 million).