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TXBRONC
11-13-2007, 09:55 PM
It looks like Abdullah is going to get a chance to prove he can be a long term answer at safety. The remarks on Crowder are interesting too.


http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=304021

Broncos Team Report
Posted: November 12, 2007
Lee Rasizer
For Sporting News

STRATEGY & PERSONNEL ANALYSIS

The Broncos are excited about the range and speed of backup S Hamza Abdullah. Denver initially played Abdullah in pass coverage against Detroit in Week 9, but after a strong performance in that role the team appears to have turned the page, giving Abdullah the starting free safety job. He has an opportunity to demonstrate whether he's a long-term answer over the next month and a half. ...

The Broncos' decision to cut DE Simeon Rice, coupled with DE Jarvis Moss' season-ending injury, gives rookie Tim Crowder plenty of opportunity to show the team what he can do. In his first game in a full-time, nickel role, Crowder had two sacks against the Chiefs. The rookie has potential in that role. He's fast for his size but at 6-foot-4, 275 pounds he has the bulk to push the pocket as a bullrusher. Crowder also has the ability to slide inside to tackle in a pinch.

SCOUTING REPORT

In the offseason, when unheralded WR Glenn Martinez missed days with a hamstring injury, it didn't look like he'd make the roster. But injuries to other player and poor play from still more players have put Martinez an integral role not only as the team's No. 3 wideout but also as a punt returner. He doesn't have top-end speed, but Martinez is tough and will make catches in traffic. He has good hands and will engage a cornerback downfield as a blocker in the running game. At punt returner, Martinez has shown strong instincts.

HARDEST HITTER

Year after year, S John Lynch has heard that he doesn't have the speed and range he once possessed. But even if that's true, Lynch remains an intimidating presence. When he's healthy, Denver likes to use him as an in-the-box defender against the run, and Lynch has the instincts to read plays and fill the hole aggressively. On passing downs, Lynch won't often get to the quarterback via the blitz but when aligned deep, he knows how to play angles.

WAB
11-13-2007, 10:24 PM
Ummmm....YES!

Pass coverage isn't even his strong suit!

His range to make plays is so much greater than Ferguson's was...it ain't even funny. It's eye opening, really. He's multi-faceted (strong blitzer, strong in run-support, deep coverage). He's AMAZING!

BaiLeY324
11-13-2007, 10:30 PM
Ummmm....YES!

Pass coverage isn't even his strong suit!

His range to make plays is so much greater than Ferguson's was...it ain't even funny. It's eye opening, really. He's multi-faceted (strong blitzer, strong in run-support, deep coverage). He's AMAZING!

He can lay the wood too. He's going to be a special player.

I'll tell you what, if Lynch was playing instead of him on Sunday, we may have lost. He was in PERFECT position to make 2 deflections which both resulted into INTs, and I think it's a very debatable that Lynch wouldn't have done that.

He's a good player

TXBRONC
11-13-2007, 10:35 PM
Ummmm....YES!

Pass coverage isn't even his strong suit!

His range to make plays is so much greater than Ferguson's was...it ain't even funny. It's eye opening, really. He's multi-faceted (strong blitzer, strong in run-support, deep coverage). He's AMAZING!

From what I've been able to tell he's looked good in both run support and pass coverage.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-14-2007, 12:01 AM
I guess I was wrong for doubting Abdullah, but I would never move Tim inside. This isn't some Cory Redding type deal, let him play base end and let him succeed. He's the next Barney Chavous, probably better. You old timers should remember Chavous.

topscribe
11-14-2007, 12:02 AM
I guess I was wrong for doubting Abdullah, but I would never move Tim inside. This isn't some Cory Redding type deal, let him play base end and let him succeed. He's the next Barney Chavous, probably better. You old timers should remember Chavous.

If Crowder ends up as good as Barney, I'll buy his jersey! :nixon:

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Requiem / The Dagda
11-14-2007, 12:07 AM
I'd love to get a Crowder jersey sometime. He was one of my favorite players through college. Always thought he'd look good in orange and blue, and I love how he's a strong base end, who has the ability to rush the passer. Tim was at around 285 at one point in his career at Texas and he lost that weight to get some speed, and become a better pass rusher. He dominated Jarvis in almost every aspect of the combine

He's a high character guy too. He's the sort of leader you want to have on the team. He won't be a Michael Strahan, but he's a guy who after this year, you can expect 40-45 tackles (strong run support) and maybe 8 sacks a year or so. I've always compared him to Greg Ellis. He loves the game, cares about studying film and plays hard every down.

That's all you can ask for really. Tim's going to be a good one, and with Elvis emerging, if Jarvis does anything - that's just gravy, even though the guy has been injured ever since high school. It's really one pick I wish we could have back.

TXBRONC
11-14-2007, 12:07 AM
I guess I was wrong for doubting Abdullah, but I would never move Tim inside. This isn't some Cory Redding type deal, let him play base end and let him succeed. He's the next Barney Chavous, probably better. You old timers should remember Chavous.

The article didn't say he would, it said he could in a pinch.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-14-2007, 12:13 AM
The article didn't say he would, it said he could in a pinch.

It's a bad idea regardless. I know he has experience there, but Denver just needs to let players play where they're good at. Coyer's idea of putting Dumervil inside lasted about a week (and it was absolutely retarded) and putting in Tim there is. . . eh. Unless it's in a pass rushing situation and you want to get all the best guys on the field, but not in a base defense, not on first or second down.

Keep Tim as a DE, in particular on the left side. He has the size, speed and quickness to get past most RT's. If he can improve his technique and pass rush moves, he'll exceed a lot of expectations.

TXBRONC
11-14-2007, 12:23 AM
It's a bad idea regardless. I know he has experience there, but Denver just needs to let players play where they're good at. Coyer's idea of putting Dumervil inside lasted about a week (and it was absolutely retarded) and putting in Tim there is. . . eh. Unless it's in a pass rushing situation and you want to get all the best guys on the field, but not in a base defense, not on first or second down.

Keep Tim as a DE, in particular on the left side. He has the size, speed and quickness to get past most RT's. If he can improve his technique and pass rush moves, he'll exceed a lot of expectations.

If they're depleted at defensive tackle and need him to move inside temporarily then no its not a bad idea. Again the article said IN A PINCH not permanently. It would be best if you would let go now, because you haven't won this argument nor will win it.

BaiLeY324
11-14-2007, 12:36 AM
I'd love to get a Crowder jersey sometime. He was one of my favorite players through college. Always thought he'd look good in orange and blue, and I love how he's a strong base end, who has the ability to rush the passer. Tim was at around 285 at one point in his career at Texas and he lost that weight to get some speed, and become a better pass rusher. He dominated Jarvis in almost every aspect of the combine

He's a high character guy too. He's the sort of leader you want to have on the team. He won't be a Michael Strahan, but he's a guy who after this year, you can expect 40-45 tackles (strong run support) and maybe 8 sacks a year or so. I've always compared him to Greg Ellis. He loves the game, cares about studying film and plays hard every down.

That's all you can ask for really. Tim's going to be a good one, and with Elvis emerging, if Jarvis does anything - that's just gravy, even though the guy has been injured ever since high school. It's really one pick I wish we could have back.

Also, we moved up to take Jarvis too which was also completely retarded.

I never liked the pick of Jarvis, guy has potential but I can almost guarantee that he'll never pan out

lex
11-14-2007, 12:46 AM
I'd love to get a Crowder jersey sometime. He was one of my favorite players through college. Always thought he'd look good in orange and blue, and I love how he's a strong base end, who has the ability to rush the passer. Tim was at around 285 at one point in his career at Texas and he lost that weight to get some speed, and become a better pass rusher. He dominated Jarvis in almost every aspect of the combine

He's a high character guy too. He's the sort of leader you want to have on the team. He won't be a Michael Strahan, but he's a guy who after this year, you can expect 40-45 tackles (strong run support) and maybe 8 sacks a year or so. I've always compared him to Greg Ellis. He loves the game, cares about studying film and plays hard every down.

That's all you can ask for really. Tim's going to be a good one, and with Elvis emerging, if Jarvis does anything - that's just gravy, even though the guy has been injured ever since high school. It's really one pick I wish we could have back.

So youre into trashing Moss, eh? Well, in fairness, Moss had the better 40 time. Also, you mention the injury and its all pretty much related to the pelvis that was finally diagnosed correctly in college. Its not like hes had several injuries as much as its been an undiagnosed problem recurring. And no one has really seen anything close to his upside because of the staph infection in his pelvis. Im sure Denver considered that but hedged their bets with Crowder. But if youre all about Tim Crowder, I guess its understandable that youd bank on him working out.

SBboundBRONCOS
11-14-2007, 12:57 AM
So youre into trashing Moss, eh? Well, in fairness, Moss had the better 40 time. Also, you mention the injury and its all pretty much related to the pelvis that was finally diagnosed correctly in college. Its not like hes had several injuries as much as its been an undiagnosed problem recurring. And no one has really seen anything close to his upside because of the staph infection in his pelvis. Im sure Denver considered that but hedged their bets with Crowder. But if youre all about Tim Crowder, I guess its understandable that youd bank on him working out.

too be honest im not a huge fan of the draft of jarvis either, while he has potential it will be a while before he can even come close. as weird as it sounds, i think this injury was a good thing for him.

it gives him a chance to work on his size because he looks like a twig out there on the field. hopefully he gets that up

also i dont think jarvis had a better 40 time, i think crowder beat him by a little, but even if im wrong it wasnt by much, yet it seems a lot of bronco fans think jarvis is a lot faster than crowder becasue thats all they heard about, him being a speed rusher when he really wasnt all that impressive . . . . ever

ok but this thread is about Hamza, and i think he exactly what we need back there, he has everything you lok for in a safety. now if we could just get foxy out of there or put 50lbs on him :laugh:

Requiem / The Dagda
11-14-2007, 01:05 AM
If they're depleted at defensive tackle and need him to move inside temporarily then no its not a bad idea. Again the article said IN A PINCH not permanently. It would be best if you would let go now, because you haven't won this argument nor will win it.

I was never making an argument, I was offering my opinion and you decided to take what I said out of context. I'm perfectly aware of what the article meant and intended, I simply stated I'd rather them just keep him at end - and don't move him around. I know he can play tackle, and I know that the article said he could play it in a PINCH, but I'm hoping that we'll never have to see him at tackle, and that he can be our left end for years to come.

Don't get too obsessive.

lex
11-14-2007, 01:08 AM
too be honest im not a huge fan of the draft of jarvis either, while he has potential it will be a while before he can even come close. as weird as it sounds, i think this injury was a good thing for him.

it gives him a chance to work on his size because he looks like a twig out there on the field. hopefully he gets that up

also i dont think jarvis had a better 40 time, i think crowder beat him by a little, but even if im wrong it wasnt by much, yet it seems a lot of bronco fans think jarvis is a lot faster than crowder becasue thats all they heard about, him being a speed rusher when he really wasnt all that impressive . . . . ever

ok but this thread is about Hamza, and i think he exactly what we need back there, he has everything you lok for in a safety. now if we could just get foxy out of there or put 50lbs on him :laugh:

You might be right. I was actually watching it though and the reading for Moss was 4.6 something. I see now they have him at 4.7, a hundredth behind Crowder.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-14-2007, 01:18 AM
So youre into trashing Moss, eh?

I was one of the first people to ever state that Moss would be a legitimate target for the Broncos under a Jim Bates defense. I liked the kid's pass rushing moves, I didn't like his injury history.


Well, in fairness, Moss had the better 40 time.

Actually, Tim Crowder ran a faster 40 time. He was timed in at 4.69 and Moss was timed at 4.70 at Indianapolis. Crowder had some of the best shuttles and three cone drills out of any DE out there. He also benched twice as much as Moss, and had the same 10 yard dash and vertical jump. He outworked him, easily.


Also, you mention the injury and its all pretty much related to the pelvis that was finally diagnosed correctly in college. Its not like hes had several injuries as much as its been an undiagnosed problem recurring.

Moss had several nagging injuries that bothered him outside his staph infection with the Gators as well. Him playing 'hurt', and his injury history was a reason for a lot of teams not to have a first-round grade on him.


And no one has really seen anything close to his upside because of the staph infection in his pelvis.

He barely ever started at Florida, and was always working in a rotation with talent around him. I love his athleticism and his pass rushing moves, but his injury history and the fact that he's on IR is a cause for concern. I'm not trashing Moss at all, because as I mentioned - he's one of the "scheme" highlighted players I talked about well before he even declared last year.


Im sure Denver considered that but hedged their bets with Crowder. But if youre all about Tim Crowder, I guess its understandable that youd bank on him working out.

I'm all for Crowder because he has experience at multiple positions on the DL and was never injured at all during college (besides dislocating three , and he was starting since he was a true freshman. (After a few games.) He's a high character guy, a hard worker and intelligent. He has all the skills necessary to be a good LDE in the NFL, if not a great one.

I guess that's why.

lex
11-14-2007, 01:32 AM
I was one of the first people to ever state that Moss would be a legitimate target for the Broncos under a Jim Bates defense. I liked the kid's pass rushing moves, I didn't like his injury history.



Actually, Tim Crowder ran a faster 40 time. He was timed in at 4.69 and Moss was timed at 4.70 at Indianapolis. Crowder had some of the best shuttles and three cone drills out of any DE out there. He also benched twice as much as Moss, and had the same 10 yard dash and vertical jump. He outworked him, easily.



Moss had several nagging injuries that bothered him outside his staph infection with the Gators as well. Him playing 'hurt', and his injury history was a reason for a lot of teams not to have a first-round grade on him.



He barely ever started at Florida, and was always working in a rotation with talent around him. I love his athleticism and his pass rushing moves, but his injury history and the fact that he's on IR is a cause for concern. I'm not trashing Moss at all, because as I mentioned - he's one of the "scheme" highlighted players I talked about well before he even declared last year.



I'm all for Crowder because he has experience at multiple positions on the DL and was never injured at all during college (besides dislocating three , and he was starting since he was a true freshman. (After a few games.) He's a high character guy, a hard worker and intelligent. He has all the skills necessary to be a good LDE in the NFL, if not a great one.

I guess that's why.

The thing about Moss though that is a massive advantage on the fiels but is a detriment at the combine is his height and more specifically is wing span. That dude can reel in the QB when still engaged by blockers with his massive wingspan. He did it at UF and once he reaches a base level of strength along with a little more sophistication in his pass rush moves and hell be hard to handle. On the field he is actually able to use length as leverage but at the combine its a detriment. Again, he needs base level strength though. But like I said they are hedging their bets with the two. If we had not moved up to draft Moss, the appeal of crowder may have waned as it may have meant drafting Spencer who is more similar to Crowder than Moss.

topscribe
11-14-2007, 01:38 AM
too be honest im not a huge fan of the draft of jarvis either, while he has potential it will be a while before he can even come close. as weird as it sounds, i think this injury was a good thing for him.

it gives him a chance to work on his size because he looks like a twig out there on the field. hopefully he gets that up

also i dont think jarvis had a better 40 time, i think crowder beat him by a little, but even if im wrong it wasnt by much, yet it seems a lot of bronco fans think jarvis is a lot faster than crowder becasue thats all they heard about, him being a speed rusher when he really wasnt all that impressive . . . . ever

ok but this thread is about Hamza, and i think he exactly what we need back there, he has everything you lok for in a safety. now if we could just get foxy out of there or put 50lbs on him :laugh:


I would be more interested in their 10-yard times. They seldom have to run
all-out for further than that, and that would give an indication regarding
their burst. This is why Dumervil is so explosive: His 40-time isn't too
impressive, but that first 10 yards is blinding.

NOTE: I'm sure you will appreciate this comment. :smile:

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topscribe
11-14-2007, 01:43 AM
It looks like Abdullah is going to get a chance to prove he can be a long term answer at safety. The remarks on Crowder are interesting too.


http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=304021

Broncos Team Report
Posted: November 12, 2007
Lee Rasizer
For Sporting News

STRATEGY & PERSONNEL ANALYSIS

The Broncos are excited about the range and speed of backup S Hamza Abdullah. Denver initially played Abdullah in pass coverage against Detroit in Week 9, but after a strong performance in that role the team appears to have turned the page, giving Abdullah the starting free safety job. He has an opportunity to demonstrate whether he's a long-term answer over the next month and a half. ...

The Broncos' decision to cut DE Simeon Rice, coupled with DE Jarvis Moss' season-ending injury, gives rookie Tim Crowder plenty of opportunity to show the team what he can do. In his first game in a full-time, nickel role, Crowder had two sacks against the Chiefs. The rookie has potential in that role. He's fast for his size but at 6-foot-4, 275 pounds he has the bulk to push the pocket as a bullrusher. Crowder also has the ability to slide inside to tackle in a pinch.

SCOUTING REPORT

In the offseason, when unheralded WR Glenn Martinez missed days with a hamstring injury, it didn't look like he'd make the roster. But injuries to other player and poor play from still more players have put Martinez an integral role not only as the team's No. 3 wideout but also as a punt returner. He doesn't have top-end speed, but Martinez is tough and will make catches in traffic. He has good hands and will engage a cornerback downfield as a blocker in the running game. At punt returner, Martinez has shown strong instincts.

HARDEST HITTER

Year after year, S John Lynch has heard that he doesn't have the speed and range he once possessed. But even if that's true, Lynch remains an intimidating presence. When he's healthy, Denver likes to use him as an in-the-box defender against the run, and Lynch has the instincts to read plays and fill the hole aggressively. On passing downs, Lynch won't often get to the quarterback via the blitz but when aligned deep, he knows how to play angles.

Thanks for the find. I have felt all along that Abdullah could be something
special. Couldn't be better news, in light of the other positions of need.

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Requiem / The Dagda
11-14-2007, 02:21 AM
I would be more interested in their 10-yard times. They seldom have to run
all-out for further than that, and that would give an indication regarding
their burst. This is why Dumervil is so explosive: His 40-time isn't too
impressive, but that first 10 yards is blinding.

NOTE: I'm sure you will appreciate this comment. :smile:

-----

They had identical 10 yards, I believe it was 1.58 each, which is impressive.

topscribe
11-14-2007, 02:22 AM
They had identical 10 yards, I believe it was 1.58 each, which is impressive.

Yes it is. I just hope the Broncos end up half as deep at DT as they appear to be at DE.

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TXBRONC
11-14-2007, 08:04 AM
Thanks for the find. I have felt all along that Abdullah could be something
special. Couldn't be better news, in light of the other positions of need.

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I think over the past couple of weeks he's shown a lot promise.