Whitlock: Elway Greatest QB Ever

[rationalfan]

this might have been posted here in the past; but it's the offseason, and it's a great read if you're a Broncos fans.

enjoy.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/the-10-greatest-qbs-of-all-time

[MOtorboat]

It's about the only thing I've ever agreed with that Whitlock has written.

[slim]

Broken clock and all that....

[Northman]

Tell me something i dont know Jason.

[WTE]

I can't stand greatest of all-time arguments or top 10 discussions and all that. I actually despise them for some reason.

But I will say this. Elway had the greatest arm I ever saw. He could make every throw possible. Back in the day there was no other QB who scared me more than John Elway when matched against my Patriots. I'm not actually sure if NE ever beat him?

[Superchop 7]

Broncos went 11-0 vs Patriots during Elway era.

[dogfish]

It's about the only thing I've ever agreed with that Whitlock has written.

i about fell off my damn chair. . . :eek:



and WTE, you're absolutely correct-- elway had the best arm i've seen to this day. . . combined with his escapability, it made him a nightmare for defenses, particularly in two-minute and late game situations. . . he was at his best when he got to go unscripted-- when dumbass reeves couldn't shackle john's greatness. . . elway in today's NFL would basically be drew brees in cam newton's body-- with a MUCH better arm. . . in a modern scheme, he would put up insane numbers. . .

i also agree that in most cases, the "best of all time" argument becomes so subjective as to be more or less meaningless. . .

[WTE]

Broncos went 11-0 vs Patriots during Elway era.

Holy shit!

[MOtorboat]

i about fell off my damn chair. . . :eek:



and WTE, you're absolutely correct-- elway had the best arm i've seen to this day. . . combined with his escapability, it made him a nightmare for defenses, particularly in two-minute and late game situations. . . he was at his best when he got to go unscripted-- when dumbass reeves couldn't shackle john's greatness. . . elway in today's NFL would basically be drew brees in cam newton's body-- with a MUCH better arm. . . in a modern scheme, he would put up insane numbers. . .

i also agree that in most cases, the "best of all time" argument becomes so subjective as to be more or less meaningless. . .

Well, it's a three year old article, so I think I've read it about five times, and I've heard him say it on various radio programs for the last 10 years, because I lived in Kansas City...

[tomjonesrocks]

Yes.

[WTE]

i about fell off my damn chair. . . :eek:



and WTE, you're absolutely correct-- elway had the best arm i've seen to this day. . . combined with his escapability, it made him a nightmare for defenses, particularly in two-minute and late game situations. . . he was at his best when he got to go unscripted-- when dumbass reeves couldn't shackle john's greatness. . . elway in today's NFL would basically be drew brees in cam newton's body-- with a MUCH better arm. . . in a modern scheme, he would put up insane numbers. . .

i also agree that in most cases, the "best of all time" argument becomes so subjective as to be more or less meaningless. . .

Great synopsis Dog! Much better than any talking head I ever heard.

[Army Bronco]

Elway is my all time favorite player. I always thought we had a chance to win when he played. As you see in my avatar, i met him in Baghdad and even caught a ball he threw out to us. That my friends was a big moment for me. He signed the ball for me in this picture.

[DenBronx]

Doesnt the whole damn world already know Elway is the GOAT of all football???


And clearly he is still taking names and kicking ass!

[Poet]

I uh...hate to say this but uhh....Whitlock saying it actually probably hurts Elway's perception. I don't know anyone who actually respects that guy.

[dogfish]

I uh...hate to say this but uhh....Whitlock saying it actually probably hurts Elway's perception. I don't know anyone who actually respects that guy.

we will agree to never speak of this again-- it's for the best. . .

[OrangeHoof]

I'd say Elway had the best tools of any QB in NFL history. He had a cannon arm that could strike anywhere, even across the field and 40 yards downfield while rolling to his right. Throw onto that his scrambling ability and the brain of a coach's son and you've got as complete a package as there ever was.

However, I'd have to say Montana got more out of his ability than Elway did but he needed the right system to do it - Bill Walsh's system was absolutely the perfect marriage for Montana who always lacked the gun Elway had. And Montana won a Super Bowl with Lenvil Elliott as his halfback so you can't say he was surrounded by All-Pros the whole time. He made a slow white boy low-round pick into Dwight Clark.

None of this is to knock Elway but you just have to count the rings. Montana wins.

[Northman]

I'd say Elway had the best tools of any QB in NFL history. He had a cannon arm that could strike anywhere, even across the field and 40 yards downfield while rolling to his right. Throw onto that his scrambling ability and the brain of a coach's son and you've got as complete a package as there ever was.

However, I'd have to say Montana got more out of his ability than Elway did but he needed the right system to do it - Bill Walsh's system was absolutely the perfect marriage for Montana who always lacked the gun Elway had. And Montana won a Super Bowl with Lenvil Elliott as his halfback so you can't say he was surrounded by All-Pros the whole time. He made a slow white boy low-round pick into Dwight Clark.

None of this is to knock Elway but you just have to count the rings. Montana wins.

Disagree but too each their own .

[Ravage!!!]

If only counting rings, then every QB to win the SUper Bowl is better than Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, and Dan Marino. To me, you have to look at the talent of the individual since so many factors are involved. If you have two guys that you just think are so close in comparison, and need something to use as a tie-breaker, then I suppose one could fall to the championships. But, to which their own.

[Northman]

If only counting rings, then every QB to win the SUper Bowl is better than Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, and Dan Marino. To me, you have to look at the talent of the individual since so many factors are involved. If you have two guys that you just think are so close in comparison, and need something to use as a tie-breaker, then I suppose one could fall to the championships. But, to which their own.

Agreed.

No way you put Montana on those Denver teams and he gets them to those Super Bowls.

[Poet]

The best ever debate is better completed by the comprehensive overview that North and Ravage are talking about. I know a Pats fan who thinks that Tom Brady is literally, I repeat, literally, three times better than Brett Favre because of his rings. I don't think the notion that Brady is better than Favre is laughable at all. I'm just saying that basing it on winning infuriates me to death.

[Ravage!!!]

The best ever debate is better completed by the comprehensive overview that North and Ravage are talking about. I know a Pats fan who thinks that Tom Brady is literally, I repeat, literally, three times better than Brett Favre because of his rings. I don't think the notion that Brady is better than Favre is laughable at all. I'm just saying that basing it on winning infuriates me to death.

Then I suppose we could simply add the margin of victory in Brady's Super Bowl victories, and compare them to the margin of victory of Favre's Super Bowl victories.... and see that despite Favre having two less victories, Brett has a larger number.

Seems you can always find a way to give the guy you want to be the greatest. I just think looking at the "ring column" is discounting everything.... EVERYTHING ....else involved.

[DenBronx]

I'd say Elway had the best tools of any QB in NFL history. He had a cannon arm that could strike anywhere, even across the field and 40 yards downfield while rolling to his right. Throw onto that his scrambling ability and the brain of a coach's son and you've got as complete a package as there ever was.

However, I'd have to say Montana got more out of his ability than Elway did but he needed the right system to do it - Bill Walsh's system was absolutely the perfect marriage for Montana who always lacked the gun Elway had. And Montana won a Super Bowl with Lenvil Elliott as his halfback so you can't say he was surrounded by All-Pros the whole time. He made a slow white boy low-round pick into Dwight Clark.

None of this is to knock Elway but you just have to count the rings. Montana wins.


Montana wins in peoples eyes because of the rings. Montana had way better teams and talent to work with than Elway did, that's the only differance.

Elway went to 5 SuperBowls, 3 of those he put on his back and carried them himself! The team the Broncos finally got in the late 90's was so amazing to watch.

[zbeg]

I think it's splitting hairs to some extent. There are so many factors (the "hey rings lol" argument is not one, however) that go into a quarterback's career that I don't see how I can say that X player is absolutely the best or whatever. How much do you value Bill Belichick, for example, when discussing Tom Brady's position?

I just group them in a loose tier one of six quarterbacks, which to me is:

Elway
Manning
Marino
Montana
Brady
Young (Steve, not Vince)

Young is the one I know most people would disagree with, but he had a fantastic career and I have seen few guys play with that kind of technical precision. The only reason why his legacy isn't considered greater is because Young's 49ers had the misfortune of playing in the same era as the uberstacked Cowboys teams. The 49ers/Cowboys NFCCGs were considered "the real Super Bowl," and as much as it annoyed me at the time, it was probably right.

If you held a gun to my head and told me I had to pick one, I would pick Peyton. I just think that technical perfection + offensive coordinator + changing the way the position's played + consistency every single freaking year is the way to go, especially when I don't think his teams were particularly good for a lot of those years. Yeah, Elway did a lot of that as well, but I think Peyton did so to a greater extent.

I formed this opinion several years ago, long before the idea of him being a Bronco was anything more than a video game fantasy.

The way I see it, pick your favorite guy and run with it. They're all pretty close IMO. If you're wrong, you're not wrong by a lot. Unless you think it's Favre, in which case I can't help you.

[Poet]

I used to really enjoy the best ever debates. They're a lot of fun as long as the people you're discussing it with are knowledgeable and don't get butthurt. I like this site because if I wanted to argue that someone was a better qb than Elway, I won't get booted or trolled. There was a Bengals mb that I got banned from because I sinned and said that Chad Johnson is not a better WR than Michael Irvin...

That was fun.

[Northman]

I used to really enjoy the best ever debates. They're a lot of fun as long as the people you're discussing it with are knowledgeable and don't get butthurt. I like this site because if I wanted to argue that someone was a better qb than Elway, I won't get booted or trolled. There was a Bengals mb that I got banned from because I sinned and said that Chad Johnson is not a better WR than Michael Irvin...

That was fun.

Which is why i like you and we get along. Our conversations are always great regardless if we disagree or agree.

[Poet]

Which is why i like you and we get along. Our conversations are always great regardless if we disagree or agree.

They sure as **** don't pay us to do this, we better have fun.

[Army Bronco]

Which is why i like you and we get along. Our conversations are always great regardless if we disagree or agree.

They sure as **** don't pay us to do this, we better have fun. King ill pay you 1000 theoretical dollars. But that just cause like you.

[Poet]

King ill pay you 1000 theoretical dollars. But that just cause like you.

You are a good man.

[Npba900]

I'd say Elway had the best tools of any QB in NFL history. He had a cannon arm that could strike anywhere, even across the field and 40 yards downfield while rolling to his right. Throw onto that his scrambling ability and the brain of a coach's son and you've got as complete a package as there ever was.

However, I'd have to say Montana got more out of his ability than Elway did but he needed the right system to do it - Bill Walsh's system was absolutely the perfect marriage for Montana who always lacked the gun Elway had. And Montana won a Super Bowl with Lenvil Elliott as his halfback so you can't say he was surrounded by All-Pros the whole time. He made a slow white boy low-round pick into Dwight Clark.

None of this is to knock Elway but you just have to count the rings. Montana wins.

Not to disagree with you totally, but I think when it comes to toughness and durability Elway would have the edge. In 16 seasons, Elway was sacked in the neighborhood of 500-516! vs Montana's 300 plus sacks.

I beleive Elway has the NFL Record for most sacks by QB! Setting the record of enduring the most sacks than any NFL QB in the history of the NFL and still go on to a productive HOF career is utterly incredible and never to be challenged. More than likely, had Elway not endured 516 sacks over 16 years he could have had an 18-22 year career. By 1998, Elway's body began to break down having suffered the hamstring injury and missing 4 consecutive games.

Also, the 3 teams Elway took to the SB's in the 80's were not stacked with first team All-Pro's nor were they HOF bound. When Montana played for the KC Chiefs he could not lead those teams to the SB b/c the overall talent just wasn't there.

However, the talent was alittle better than the talent Elway had to work with the teams he lead to 3 SB's in 86, 87, and 89. No way Montana could have led the 86, 87 and 89 Bronco teams to the SB....there just wasn't enough talent.

Joe Montana would not have thrived as a Bronco playing under Dav Reeves system and probably would have had his career ended rather early due to all the sacks-punishment he would have taken and just not having the talent and weapons. Not sure Montana could have taken any of the Dan Reeves teams to the SB.

Elway undoubtedly would have thrived playing for Walsh as a 49er and talent Walsh had assembled during his tenure. In fact, the 49ers would have been in the SB 8 or 12 times between 1984-1998.