Vic Lombardi reports Orton might be on short leash

[Tned]

This one seemed thread worthy, rather than just dumping it into the camp update thread.


@VicLombardi (http://twitter.com/VicLombardi) after sitting down with McDaniels today, i get the feeling Orton's leash isn't as long as we think

[Dirk]

Good....Produce get better and don't lose games. That would be a short enough leash.:lol:

[NameUsedBefore]

A "game manager" threw 3-INTs in one half of football. It kind of makes sense particularly when his backup is of pretty much equal talent.

[claymore]

Now I need to brush up on some Albino Jokes for when Simms gets promoted.

[Tned]

Good....Produce get better and don't lose games. That would be a short enough leash.:lol:

I'm hoping Lombardi elaborates, but I am assuming that it is shorter than that. More along the lines of produce this saturday or flip spots in the depth chart with Simms.

[Gamechanger]

shop him for Troy Smith?

[NameUsedBefore]

shop him for Troy Smith?

That Redskins backup... Name escapes me.

[Dortoh]

I hear the bears are looking for a wr How about Brandon for Jay straight up.

[G_Money]

Can I get a prediction on how long it'll be until someone justifies us juggling Orton and Simms back and forth as would-be starters as "making defenses prepare for two different QB styles, so it plays to our offensive genius HC's strength"?

*shakes head* Orton is not yet a disaster. He's got time. But a guy who couldn't beat out Rex Grossman makes me wonder. Not being able to beat out Chris Simms? That might qualify as a disaster.

Pick it up, Orton. It's not your fault we traded Cutler for you, but we do need you or the Spleenless Wonder to pick it up this year. Please don't give us any more of a reason to think Simms might sadly be a better option than you already have.

~G

[Reidman]

I wish we had Favre...




:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[TXBRONC]

That Redskins backup... Name escapes me.

Colt Brennan.

[claymore]

Can I get a prediction on how long it'll be until someone justifies us juggling Orton and Simms back and forth as would-be starters as "making defenses prepare for two different QB styles, so it plays to our offensive genius HC's strength"?

*shakes head* Orton is not yet a disaster. He's got time. But a guy who couldn't beat out Rex Grossman makes me wonder. Not being able to beat out Chris Simms? That might qualify as a disaster.

Pick it up, Orton. It's not your fault we traded Cutler for you, but we do need you or the Spleenless Wonder to pick it up this year. Please don't give us any more of a reason to think Simms might sadly be a better option than you already have.

~G
Orton Was Griese's backup wasnt he? :shocked:

[topscribe]

Can I get a prediction on how long it'll be until someone justifies us juggling Orton and Simms back and forth as would-be starters as "making defenses prepare for two different QB styles, so it plays to our offensive genius HC's strength"?

*shakes head* Orton is not yet a disaster. He's got time. But a guy who couldn't beat out Rex Grossman makes me wonder. Not being able to beat out Chris Simms? That might qualify as a disaster.

Pick it up, Orton. It's not your fault we traded Cutler for you, but we do need you or the Spleenless Wonder to pick it up this year. Please don't give us any more of a reason to think Simms might sadly be a better option than you already have.

~G

I keep hearing that Orton couldn't beat out Grossman. Makes me wonder just
how much research such people have done on Orton. It seems to me that
Grossman is precisely whom Orton beat out last year. Moreover, Grossman
played the eighth game of the season last year because of Orton's high ankle
sprain in the seventh game, then Orton took back over his starting job in the
ninth game. In other words, Orton was better injured than Grossman was
healthy.

Regarding Griese, he left, and Orton stayed. So much for Griese.

We need to get our facts straight, at least historically . . .

-----

[Dirk]

I'm hoping Lombardi elaborates, but I am assuming that it is shorter than that. More along the lines of produce this saturday or flip spots in the depth chart with Simms.

I'm sure that's what it is.

Who knows, I say if Orton is gonna be an INT King and Simms isn't....then go with Simms. Kind of a no brainer if you ask me.

But I think Orton crumbled under the pressure of trying to get the fan base on his side. He just needs to settle down and play ball and not try to do it all.

[Lonestar]

Can I get a prediction on how long it'll be until someone justifies us juggling Orton and Simms back and forth as would-be starters as "making defenses prepare for two different QB styles, so it plays to our offensive genius HC's strength"?

*shakes head* Orton is not yet a disaster. He's got time. But a guy who couldn't beat out Rex Grossman makes me wonder. Not being able to beat out Chris Simms? That might qualify as a disaster.

Pick it up, Orton. It's not your fault we traded Cutler for you, but we do need you or the Spleenless Wonder to pick it up this year. Please don't give us any more of a reason to think Simms might sadly be a better option than you already have.

~G



one wonders if by drafting Grossman so high he almost had to start him ..

Not sure that Orton is a practice QB as much as some might be.. Like Jake a weekend warrior?

[OldschoolFreak]

Does anyone have any viable options as potential backup plans. Somebody threw out Brennan's name but if he's number 2, I don't see the Redskins letting him go cheap. Thigpen was thrown out as a possibility a couple days ago but people here were appalled at the thought.

Seriously, is there anyone out there that could be a solid manager? Remember, that's what we need, someone who can just avoid the INTs.

[honz]

We shuld have signed CLEO LeMON!

[Dirk]

We shuld have signed CLEO LeMON!

Isn't he still out there? Pats passed on him...not sure if he signed anywhere else...but still. :lol:

[Dirk]

Does anyone have any viable options as potential backup plans. Somebody threw out Brennan's name but if he's number 2, I don't see the Redskins letting him go cheap. Thigpen was thrown out as a possibility a couple days ago but people here were appalled at the thought.

Seriously, is there anyone out there that could be a solid manager? Remember, that's what we need, someone who can just avoid the INTs.

I think that Simms is actually going to be just fine if Orton can't perform.

[Dortoh]

We shuld have signed CLEO LeMON!

Just out of curiosity I wonder what kind of shape a person stays in while playing semi-professional mens handball?

[OldschoolFreak]

Just out of curiosity I wonder what kind of shape a person stays in while playing semi-professional mens handball?

Now that's the post of the year!

[G_Money]

I keep hearing that Orton couldn't beat out Grossman. Makes me wonder just
how much research such people have done on Orton. It seems to me that
Grossman is precisely whom Orton beat out last year. Moreover, Grossman
played the eighth game of the season last year because of Orton's high ankle
sprain in the seventh game, then Orton took back over his starting job in the
ninth game. In other words, Orton was better injured than Grossman was
healthy.

Regarding Griese, he left, and Orton stayed. So much for Griese.

We need to get our facts straight, at least historically . . .

-----


Orton couldn't beat out Grossman until Grossman finished embarrassing himself for the millionth time. Did Orton beat him out last year? Since I think there might have been an on-field castration by the fans if Grossman was named starter again, there might be some bias there, but yes, he did beat him out and he acquitted himself well to start the season. After his ankle injury, though, Orton was either figured out by DCs or was once again useless when not at 100% - which was part of the reason he could never take over for Grossman until Rex finished face-planting in the first place.

I don't want us to be in a position where Orton is our Grossman: we paid too much for him to let him ride the pine and lose face with the fans, so we keep running him out there longer than we should.

Can Orton be successful here? Josh believes so. The question is, if Josh is wrong about this, how long will it take us to get the ship turned around? The Bears rode Grossman over Orton for so long I thought it would get Lovie fired. McDaniels is not likely to make a SB in the next couple years to allow him any leeway if he decides to bet too long on the wrong QB.

Josh has shown no problem with chucking players overboard, though, so hopefully that proves true with his favorites when required, and not just with talented players when not required. To me, it's good news that he may not be married to Orton for better or worse. But not knowing which QB is gonna suit up and start the game only works for gimmick college teams, not in the pros.

At some point he's gonna have to make the call on his starter and ride him through at least 2/3 of the season. And if he's wrong, then Plan B (Simms, Brandy, whoever) better ride in on a big freakin' white horse and pull our asses out of the fire, in year 2 or Josh is gonna have trouble getting his third year. And since I don't want us to have done this wrong, I hope Josh can just find one QB to function in the offense.

Thriving would be even better. So c'mon Orton - surprise me.

~G

[Dirk]

Just out of curiosity I wonder what kind of shape a person stays in while playing semi-professional mens handball?

I'm sure you have to be in pretty good shape. Too bad that bridge was burned some time ago...

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Facts straight on Orton: He is a loser and won't be leading this team next year.

Thank God.

[CrazyHorse]

I'm sure you have to be in pretty good shape. Too bad that bridge was burned some time ago...

Hmm... Shanahan's gone though

[Dortoh]

Hmm... Shanahan's gone though


The news outlets would ******* love us. Think of all the angles and story lines.

Mastermind upended by mountain man qb
Was Jake the fake...err snake the right man.
Did Shanny lose his job the day he gave up on the gambler

[Dirk]

Hmm... Shanahan's gone though

Good point!

Someone got his cell number?

[Dirk]

The news outlets would ******* love us. Think of all the angles and story lines.

Mastermind upended by mountain man qb
Was Jake the fake...err snake the right man.
Did Shanny lose his job the day he gave up on the gambler


I'm rolling over here....:lol:

[topscribe]

Orton couldn't beat out Grossman until Grossman finished embarrassing himself for the millionth time. Did Orton beat him out last year? Since I think there might have been an on-field castration by the fans if Grossman was named starter again, there might be some bias there, but yes, he did beat him out and he acquitted himself well to start the season. After his ankle injury, though, Orton was either figured out by DCs or was once again useless when not at 100% - which was part of the reason he could never take over for Grossman until Rex finished face-planting in the first place.

I don't want us to be in a position where Orton is our Grossman: we paid too much for him to let him ride the pine and lose face with the fans, so we keep running him out there longer than we should.

Can Orton be successful here? Josh believes so. The question is, if Josh is wrong about this, how long will it take us to get the ship turned around? The Bears rode Grossman over Orton for so long I thought it would get Lovie fired. McDaniels is not likely to make a SB in the next couple years to allow him any leeway if he decides to bet too long on the wrong QB.

Josh has shown no problem with chucking players overboard, though, so hopefully that proves true with his favorites when required, and not just with talented players when not required. To me, it's good news that he may not be married to Orton for better or worse. But not knowing which QB is gonna suit up and start the game only works for gimmick college teams, not in the pros.

At some point he's gonna have to make the call on his starter and ride him through at least 2/3 of the season. And if he's wrong, then Plan B (Simms, Brandy, whoever) better ride in on a big freakin' white horse and pull our asses out of the fire, in year 2 or Josh is gonna have trouble getting his third year. And since I don't want us to have done this wrong, I hope Josh can just find one QB to function in the offense.

Thriving would be even better. So c'mon Orton - surprise me.

~G

Now we're getting into speculation, rather than facts: Orton beat out
Grossman because . . . " The fact is, come the first game of the season,
Orton was the starter. Come last game of the season, Orton was the starter.
Those are the facts.

In between those two games, we got a chance to evaluate Orton and his
performance . . . those of us who were watching. (Admittedly, I didn't
evaluate him closely until the trade, although I saw some games, two because
I was watching as a Packers fan and a couple more because that was what
was there in front of me. I did, however, go back and review those games
and others, as well as study 64 different NFL clips of his play in 2008.)

So during the first seven games, Orton passed for a 62% comp., 10 TDs, and
4 INTs for a 91.4 QB rating. (That was Sept and Oct -- in October alone,
Orton had no INTs and a rating of 106.2.) He was 4-3 during that
stretch, but he should have been 6-1, had the defense not caved in a couple
of them, especially against Tampa Bay and Atlanta.

In the eighth game, Orton suffered a high ankle sprain, so Grossman played
that one week.

Orton then took over in the ninth game, injury and all. It was very obvious
that with the injury he was not near the player he was in the first half of the
season. Although he could run straight forward fairly well, he could not move
side-to-side effectively, which hurt his mobility in the pocket. That hurt
considerably since he was playing behind a porous line. Moreover, he could
not plant his foot to drive through his pass, so he could not put the steam
on it that he could in the first half of the season.

So yes, not being stupid, DCs had figured out that Orton was not as effective
as he was before. Forget the deep pass: Following the injury, Orton just did
not have the legs for it. So defenses were able to load the box more often.

Still, Orton finished with a 9-7 record and only 12 INTs against 18 TDs.

I may be wrong, but this is what I see in Orton: what he did in the first half
of last year when he was healthy and with a subpar O-line and WRs, a #27
ranked running game (YPC), and bad coaching. I don't know how he can be
given significantly better circumstances in every instance and not do better.

We'll see, of course. But not to expect better just doesn't make sense . . .

BTW, of all the different reports coming out of the Mane, MHR, and here,
Orton has received consistently good reviews from camp.

-----

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I don't think people are expecting better and shouldn't given his first pre-season performance.

[Dirk]

I totally expect better from Orton over that first preseason game. It couldn't get any worse unless he had a Favre type of game.

*disclaimer - I am not saying Orton is as good as Favre or vice versa...just that Favre can FU a game rather nicely.

[Dortoh]

Now we're getting into speculation, rather than facts: Orton beat out
Grossman because . . . " The fact is, come the first game of the season,
Orton was the starter. Come last game of the season, Orton was the starter.
Those are the facts.

In between those two games, we got a chance to evaluate Orton and his
performance . . . those of us who were watching. (Admittedly, I didn't
evaluate him closely until the trade, although I saw some games, two because
I was watching as a Packers fan and a couple more because that was what
was there in front of me. I did, however, go back and review those games
and others, as well as study 64 different NFL clips of his play in 2008.)

So during the first seven games, Orton passed for a 62% comp., 10 TDs, and
4 INTs for a 91.4 QB rating. (That was Sept and Oct -- in October alone,
Orton had no INTs and a rating of 106.2.) He was 4-3 during that
stretch, but he should have been 6-1, had the defense not caved in a couple
of them, especially against Tampa Bay and Atlanta.

In the eighth game, Orton suffered a high ankle sprain, so Grossman played
that one week.

Orton then took over in the ninth game, injury and all. It was very obvious
that with the injury he was not near the player he was in the first half of the
season. Although he could run straight forward fairly well, he could not move
side-to-side effectively, which hurt his mobility in the pocket. That hurt
considerably since he was playing behind a porous line. Moreover, he could
not plant his foot to drive through his pass, so he could not put the steam
on it that he could in the first half of the season.

So yes, not being stupid, DCs had figured out that Orton was not as effective
as he was before. Forget the deep pass: Following the injury, Orton just did
not have the legs for it. So defenses were able to load the box more often.

Still, Orton finished with a 9-7 record and only 12 INTs against 18 TDs.

I may be wrong, but this is what I see in Orton: what he did in the first half
of last year when he was healthy and with a subpar O-line and WRs, a #27
ranked running game (YPC), and bad coaching. I don't know how he can be
given significantly better circumstances in every instance and not do better.

We'll see, of course. But not to expect better just doesn't make sense . . .

BTW, of all the different reports coming out of the Mane, MHR, and here,
Orton has received consistently good reviews from camp.

-----

Holy Hell Top,

Keep bringing it like that and I might have to get back on the Orton train. I will however require an emergency exit seat incase I need to make a quick exit when the wheels fall off. :laugh:

[Broncos Mtnman]

Hey, part of the reason Mickey Mouse picked Chicago for the Cutler trade is because he wanted Orton....


.... and Mickey's a freakin' offensive genius.


:coffee:

[topscribe]

Hey, part of the reason Mickey Mouse picked Chicago for the Cutler trade is because he wanted Orton....


.... and Mickey's a freakin' offensive genius.


:coffee:

. . . A remark that speaks for itself . . . :coffee:

-----

[Broncos Mtnman]

Vic Lombardi is a Adam Shefter wanna-be, but only has about half the talent.

I still recall his absolute statement at the end of the season that "Shanahan isn't going anywhere."

This is a safe "projection" that can appear that Lombardi had some "inside" information.

If Orton keeps his job, then he was able to recover. If he gets demoted, then he was on a short leash. Either way, Vic can look like he actually got some sort of "scoop."

[G_Money]

Now we're getting into speculation, rather than facts: Orton beat out
Grossman because . . . " The fact is, come the first game of the season,
Orton was the starter. Come last game of the season, Orton was the starter.
Those are the facts.

In between those two games, we got a chance to evaluate Orton and his
performance . . . those of us who were watching. (Admittedly, I didn't
evaluate him closely until the trade, although I saw some games, two because
I was watching as a Packers fan and a couple more because that was what
was there in front of me. I did, however, go back and review those games
and others, as well as study 64 different NFL clips of his play in 2008.)

So during the first seven games, Orton passed for a 62% comp., 10 TDs, and
4 INTs for a 91.4 QB rating. (That was Sept and Oct -- in October alone,
Orton had no INTs and a rating of 106.2.) He was 4-3 during that
stretch, but he should have been 6-1, had the defense not caved in a couple
of them, especially against Tampa Bay and Atlanta.

In the eighth game, Orton suffered a high ankle sprain, so Grossman played
that one week.

Orton then took over in the ninth game, injury and all. It was very obvious
that with the injury he was not near the player he was in the first half of the
season. Although he could run straight forward fairly well, he could not move
side-to-side effectively, which hurt his mobility in the pocket. That hurt
considerably since he was playing behind a porous line. Moreover, he could
not plant his foot to drive through his pass, so he could not put the steam
on it that he could in the first half of the season.

So yes, not being stupid, DCs had figured out that Orton was not as effective
as he was before. Forget the deep pass: Following the injury, Orton just did
not have the legs for it. So defenses were able to load the box more often.

Still, Orton finished with a 9-7 record and only 12 INTs against 18 TDs.

I may be wrong, but this is what I see in Orton: what he did in the first half
of last year when he was healthy and with a subpar O-line and WRs, a #27
ranked running game (YPC), and bad coaching. I don't know how he can be
given significantly better circumstances in every instance and not do better.

We'll see, of course. But not to expect better just doesn't make sense . . .

BTW, of all the different reports coming out of the Mane, MHR, and here,
Orton has received consistently good reviews from camp.

-----

My problem with Orton is that he's never stepped up through an injury that I've seen, in college or the pros, to compete at a high level. Elway carried on with bruised ribs, etc, but Orton isn't that kinda fella. He needs to be 100% to be any sort of effective.

I agree with you in the sense that in a perfect world, Orton would be acceptable. He has a chuck-and-duck mentality when under pressure though, and injuries exacerbate that.

His Int-to-TD ratio is the same as Cutler's. His INT per pass is the same as Cutler's. Maybe that means he'll be better than Cutler with more attempts and a better system and talent around him. I tend to think that a guy who makes the same percentage of mistakes with fewer chances will screw up more when more weight for the offense is put on his shoulders. I don't WANT Orton to throw it all over the field. I just want him to be able to throw it further than 7 yards accurately so we can clear the box for the running and short-passing game.

Orton doesn't make excuses. I just haven't seen him make enough plays, either. He's not the guy I would have chosen to replace Cutler (not that I would have replaced him, but Orton's not who I would have wanted back) but I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

I just don't want to suffer through 2 years of Bad Orton if I'm proven right. McDaniels needs to not be married to Orton, and with two QBs who a) suck under pressure and b) are fragile (either emotionally, physically or both) we kinda need both in good working order to have successful seasons.

Bad odds. Our OL should help with the injury thing, but a QB is gonna take hits even if they aren't sacks. At least both guys have been the backup before, so riding the pine and waiting their turn should be acceptable for the loser of the competition.

I'd just feel better if one of them had ever been able to do what McDaniels asks his QBs to do - make fast, correct decisions, stay cool, don't panic, stay healthy.

Grow some new spots, leopard.

~G

[weazel]

so Vic Lombardi had Orton on a short leash? thats a weird sex tape, where did you see it?

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I'm not sure if there has been any article or comment by McDaniels that stated he wanted Orton; I think he was just a part of the deal to get a quarterback in return. I'm really doubting the belief thrown out there by Mtnman, that he was his targeted guy.

[claymore]

My problem with Orton is that he's never stepped up through an injury that I've seen, in college or the pros, to compete at a high level. Elway carried on with bruised ribs, etc, but Orton isn't that kinda fella. He needs to be 100% to be any sort of effective.

I agree with you in the sense that in a perfect world, Orton would be acceptable. He has a chuck-and-duck mentality when under pressure though, and injuries exacerbate that.

His Int-to-TD ratio is the same as Cutler's. His INT per pass is the same as Cutler's. Maybe that means he'll be better than Cutler with more attempts and a better system and talent around him. I tend to think that a guy who makes the same percentage of mistakes with fewer chances will screw up more when more weight for the offense is put on his shoulders. I don't WANT Orton to throw it all over the field. I just want him to be able to throw it further than 7 yards accurately so we can clear the box for the running and short-passing game.

Orton doesn't make excuses. I just haven't seen him make enough plays, either. He's not the guy I would have chosen to replace Cutler (not that I would have replaced him, but Orton's not who I would have wanted back) but I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

I just don't want to suffer through 2 years of Bad Orton if I'm proven right. McDaniels needs to not be married to Orton, and with two QBs who a) suck under pressure and b) are fragile (either emotionally, physically or both) we kinda need both in good working order to have successful seasons.

Bad odds. Our OL should help with the injury thing, but a QB is gonna take hits even if they aren't sacks. At least both guys have been the backup before, so riding the pine and waiting their turn should be acceptable for the loser of the competition.

I'd just feel better if one of them had ever been able to do what McDaniels asks his QBs to do - make fast, correct decisions, stay cool, don't panic, stay healthy.

Grow some new spots, leopard.

~G
I almost started crying on the way home from work when I realized I was rooting For simms to be our starting QB. :(

[Buff]

Colt Brennan.

No way. He is an overrated midget. We want Todd whatshisname if we're getting a Washington backup.

[Dortoh]

No way. He is an overrated midget. We want Todd whatshisname if we're getting a Washington backup.

I actually like Colt as a backup

[Tned]

I'm not sure if there has been any article or comment by McDaniels that stated he wanted Orton; I think he was just a part of the deal to get a quarterback in return. I'm really doubting the belief thrown out there by Mtnman, that he was his targeted guy.

I don't know if McDaniels was ever directly quoted, but people like Peter King and other reporters said there were multiple teams offereing two firsts, but they went with Chicago because McDaniels wanted Orton or really liked Orton, or something like that.

[Tned]

I'm not sure if there has been any article or comment by McDaniels that stated he wanted Orton; I think he was just a part of the deal to get a quarterback in return. I'm really doubting the belief thrown out there by Mtnman, that he was his targeted guy.

There are others, but I searched on Peter King to come up with this, because I heard him talking about it on Sirius NFL Radio at the time.


The key to the trade was Kyle Orton. Laugh if you want, but it's the absolute truth. McDaniels looked hard at tape of the available quarterbacks from teams that made serious offers, players like Orton, Washington's Jason Campbell and Tampa Bay's Luke McCown. Every one of those teams was in the ballpark with an offer of at least two first-round draft picks and a quarterback.

But as the deal went down, McDaniels, who watched every offensive snap of more than 10 Bears games with Orton playing, got more and more impressed with Orton's arm, his decision-making and his ability to extend plays when the pocket broke down. You can think and I can think it's crazy he didn't like Campbell -- who got Washington off to a 6-2 start last year -- more than he liked Orton, but it's the unvarnished truth. McDaniels thinks he can win with Orton.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/05/trade/index.html

Is Peter King and others that reported this at the time of the trade, right? I don't know, but it was widely reported that Orton was the reason that the Broncos decided to trade Cutler to chicago vs. other teams.

Now, you could say he was the best of the bad QB options that were available to come back, but he did choose Orton over the others.

[claymore]

There are others, but I searched on Peter King to come up with this, because I heard him talking about it on Sirius NFL Radio at the time.



Is Peter King and others that reported this at the time of the trade, right? I don't know, but it was widely reported that Orton was the reason that the Broncos decided to trade Cutler to chicago vs. other teams.

Now, you could say he was the best of the bad QB options that were available to come back, but he did choose Orton over the others.
Its the only reason I respected JMCD. He still has time to turn it around, but...... Not much.

[topscribe]

My problem with Orton is that he's never stepped up through an injury that I've seen, in college or the pros, to compete at a high level. Elway carried on with bruised ribs, etc, but Orton isn't that kinda fella. He needs to be 100% to be any sort of effective.

I see two problems with this: (1) Orton is not Elway. He does not have Elway's
arm strength to throw through an injury like that . . . not that his arm is
weak; it just isn't in Elway's class. And (2) a rib injury is not a high ankle
sprain. Usually, a player just does not play on such an injury, period . . . and
perhaps Orton should not have, either.


I agree with you in the sense that in a perfect world, Orton would be acceptable. He has a chuck-and-duck mentality when under pressure though, and injuries exacerbate that.

That reputation bothered me at the start. He had donned the moniker "Check-
Down Charlie." However, after observing WRs who had a hard time getting
open while the O-line were making like matadores, I understood. I believe Orton
still needs to understand he is playing with great receivers and a great O-line
(and I don't use the term "great" loosely) because he did display the "happy
feet" in the first game to which others alluded.


His Int-to-TD ratio is the same as Cutler's. His INT per pass is the same as Cutler's. Maybe that means he'll be better than Cutler with more attempts and a better system and talent around him. I tend to think that a guy who makes the same percentage of mistakes with fewer chances will screw up more when more weight for the offense is put on his shoulders. I don't WANT Orton to throw it all over the field. I just want him to be able to throw it further than 7 yards accurately so we can clear the box for the running and short-passing game.

Actually, Orton's INT:TD ratio (67%) is a little better than Cutler's (72%). So
is Orton's INT:ATT ratio (2.6% vs. 2.9%). I might add that, before his injury,
Orton's INT:TD ratio (40%) and INT:ATT ratio (1.7%) were astounding.


Orton doesn't make excuses. I just haven't seen him make enough plays, either. He's not the guy I would have chosen to replace Cutler (not that I would have replaced him, but Orton's not who I would have wanted back) but I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

I just don't want to suffer through 2 years of Bad Orton if I'm proven right. McDaniels needs to not be married to Orton, and with two QBs who a) suck under pressure and b) are fragile (either emotionally, physically or both) we kinda need both in good working order to have successful seasons.

Bad odds. Our OL should help with the injury thing, but a QB is gonna take hits even if they aren't sacks. At least both guys have been the backup before, so riding the pine and waiting their turn should be acceptable for the loser of the competition.

Frankly, McDaniels' opinion of Orton did influence mine because I'm sure
McDaniels studied Orton even more thoroughly than I did, and it became
clear that Orton was key to the trade.


I'd just feel better if one of them had ever been able to do what McDaniels asks his QBs to do - make fast, correct decisions, stay cool, don't panic, stay healthy.

Grow some new spots, leopard.

~G

Well, Orton hasn't shown to be injury-prone. And there is no question he is
tough; as I mentioned, players usually do not play with high ankle sprains.
Moreover, when McDaniels gave the reasons for his choice of Orton (and
McDaniels was also in talks with Washington and Cleveland, who likely felt
they could spare their respective QBs for Cutler) was Orton's decisions and
play under fire. I know Orton didn't make a good decision the other night in
the end zone, but considering his 96-something QB rating in the end zone,
that would appear to be an anomaly.

But, as you implied, we'll see . . .

-----

[claymore]

Frankly, McDaniels' opinion of Orton did influence mine because I'm sure
McDaniels studied Orton even more thoroughly than I did, and it became
clear that Orton was key to the trade.

As I was driving home I was wondering how complex Chicago's playbook was. And Living here I know that Grudens was notorious for being huge, and over complicated.

In all fairness, Simms might have the upper hand at the offense because of his ability to deal with mass amounts of information.

In theory Orton might be allot better QB next year.

Just a thought..... Maybe not even relevant to this thread. :D

[NameUsedBefore]

Chicago's offensive playcalling has, for the past years, looked very pedestrian. I don't know if that is the players or the coach, but I'd go with the latter.

[Tned]

Chicago's offensive playcalling has, for the past years, looked very pedestrian. I don't know if that is the players or the coach, but I'd go with the latter.

I know conventional wisdom has been the coaching style, but the question is whether the coaching style/scheme was adjusted to the talent, or lack there of, on offense.

[elsid13]

Colt Brennan.

Colt Brennan that looked so bad in Redskins camp that Chase Daniels might take his job? That the guy people think we should trade for?

[EMB6903]

I remember watching NFL network practices of Gruden just killing Simms in the huddle for calling in the wrong play like 3 times in a row... It was hilarious... anybody remember?

[EMB6903]

Colt Brennan that looked so bad in Redskins camp that Chase Daniels might take his job? That the guy people think we should trade for?

I didnt know about that...

Last I heard Colt Brennan had yet to throw an INCOMPLETION throughout the entire training camp practices.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Thanks for the link, T. Orton over Campbell? Jesus.

[elsid13]

I didnt know about that...

Last I heard Colt Brennan had yet to throw an INCOMPLETION throughout the entire training camp practices.


That extremely funny because the reporters on the DC sports radio were talking about how inaccurate he been this camp.

[elsid13]

Thanks for the link, T. Orton over Campbell? Jesus.

It not like Campbell is much better. Guy is scared to make a play.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

When McD was talking to the press after yesterday's practice, I believe that he stated that he does not have a playbook. He provides plays on handouts, and incorporates the plays into the offense - I think he said - on a daily basis.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Campbell over Orton eight days a week.

[dogfish]

Campbell over Orton eight days a week.

yep. . .

[Tned]

Campbell over Orton eight days a week.


yep. . .

That's why McDaniels gets the big bucks, rather than us forum HC's.

[Bozo Jr.]

I hear the bears are looking for a wr How about Brandon for Jay straight up.

No thanks, mopers aren't allowed in the club. :shocked:

[dogfish]

That's why McDaniels gets the big bucks, rather than us forum HC's.

doesn't mean that he's right, though-- matt millen got paid a lot of big bucks too. . . . :rofl:

[Tned]

doesn't mean that he's right, though-- matt millen got paid a lot of big bucks too. . . . :rofl:

Yea, but if you say that out loud (type it), you're a 'hater', didn't you get the memo?

[dogfish]

Yea, but if you say that out loud (type it), you're a 'hater', didn't you get the memo?

i never get the memos. . . :tsk:

[Tned]

i never get the memos. . . :tsk:

Post that again, and I am going to forward your post to flag@Broncos.nfl.net

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I actually like Troy Smith.

[Tned]

According to Denver Post, Orton got all the first team snaps, so even if he is on a short leash as Lombardi says, it is still clearly his job to lose.


Fans clamoring for a real position battle at quarterback might be disappointed to learn that Kyle Orton remains firmly entrenched as the team's starter. Orton took all of the work with the starting offense all week, and consistently played better than backup Chris Simms.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13171096?source=rss

[Lonestar]

The Denver Post

Posted: 08/20/2009 04:54:22 PM MDT
Updated: 08/20/2009 05:20:33 PM MDT

Denver Broncos break camp with a huddle at the end of practice Thursday, August 20, 2009 at Dove Valley. (THE DENVER POST | JOHN LEYBA)
Related
Training Camp
Aug 19:
Dove Valley Days: Broncos rookies seeing lots of actionAug 18:
Disgruntled Marshall back at Broncos' campDumervil ready to multitaskBroncos reporter Lindsay H. Jones reviews the final day of training camp today:


HIGHLIGHT: Ah, the sweet sounds of freedom. The atmosphere before and after the team's lone practice today was noticeably lighter, with good reason. The team officially broke camp after Wednesday's evening practice, and worked for just more than two hours today in shoulder pads and shorts. Players seemed most thrilled to get to return to their homes after nearly three weeks in a hotel. "We start next week in regular game mode, and I think it is important for them to understand what's going to happen on a Wednesday, a Thursday, a Friday in the regular season," coach Josh McDaniels said. "That's why we chose to break camp now."


LOWLIGHT: Wide receiver Brandon Marshall did not make any movement up the depth chart, and it seems unlikely Marshall will play in Saturday's game at Seattle. For the third consecutive practice, Marshall did not take any repetitions when the Broncos worked on their offensive plays. He worked only as a scout team player when the Broncos practiced their defense. McDaniels would not say definitively if Marshall would or would not play.


QUOTE: "Camp is dreadful. The worst part of football is camp."

- Tight end Daniel Graham, who said he was quite happy for training camp to be over.


POSITION BATTLE: Fans clamoring for a real position battle at quarterback might be disappointed to learn that Kyle Orton remains firmly entrenched as the team's starter. Orton took all of the work with the starting offense all week, and consistently played better than backup Chris Simms. Coach Josh McDaniels today made a point to say that Orton did not have an overall bad game against San Francisco, when Orton threw three interceptions, just a few "bad decisions." "(Orton) got better every day, he had a heck of a practice (Wednesday) and continues to get better every day," McDaniels said. "That's just the way Kyle is, and Chris is the same way. Neither one of them is where I want them to be ultimately, and it doesn't happen in two weeks. It's going to happen over time."


Camp Facts: Today was the final practice that was open to fans. The team travels to Seattle on Friday for Saturday's preseason game against the Seahawks.

[shank]

i like brennan and troy smith... i also like orton. i'm not worried at all yet.

[Broncos Mtnman]

I'm not sure if there has been any article or comment by McDaniels that stated he wanted Orton; I think he was just a part of the deal to get a quarterback in return. I'm really doubting the belief thrown out there by Mtnman, that he was his targeted guy.

Denver Post.... (Part of the reason the Broncos sent Jay Cutler to Chicago was that coach Josh McDaniels wanted Orton. He has a career record of 21-12 as a starter during his first four seasons in the NFL, all with the Bears.)

Part of the reason the Broncos sent Jay Cutler to Chicago was that coach Josh McDaniels wanted Orton. He has a career record of 21-12 as a starter during his first four seasons in the NFL, all with the Bears.

[TXBRONC]

No way. He is an overrated midget. We want Todd whatshisname if we're getting a Washington backup.

Someone what his name was so I posted it.

If you think he's overrated that's fine I don't have a dog in that hunt. But are you sure you want to call him a midget Buff? He's 6'3".

[TXBRONC]

i like brennan and troy smith... i also like orton. i'm not worried at all yet.

What would a leprechaun know about quarterbacks? :D

[Shazam!]

Colt Brennan.

YES!!

I have wanted Brennan since Cutler was discussed to Wash. The kid has talent and can come cheap. He's raw but he'll learn.

[Superchop 7]

Bench him !!!

[Buff]

Someone what his name was so I posted it.

If you think he's overrated that's fine I don't have a dog in that hunt. But are you sure you want to call him a midget Buff? He's 6'3".

You are correct. Apparently I was mistaken. For some reason I thought he was smaller. Either way, I've got no interest in the guy.

[TXBRONC]

Colt Brennan that looked so bad in Redskins camp that Chase Daniels might take his job? That the guy people think we should trade for?

I'm not suggesting that. Someone was wondering what his name was so I posted it.

[shank]

What would a leprechaun know about quarterbacks? :D
are we not doing the MO avy's anymore?

[Tned]

are we not doing the MO avy's anymore?

Is that who was in everyone's avvy for a while? I was wondering who that was.

[TXBRONC]

Is that who was in everyone's avvy for a while? I was wondering who that was.

I knew it was a picture of MO but I didn't think much of it.

[elsid13]

I really want to make a joke about McDaniels, a leash and Orton but it is inappropriate for the non-lounge area. But I wonder which photos McDaniels really studied on Orton ~ his game tapes or his party tapes/pics.