PDA

View Full Version : Restructure or ?



Superchop 7
01-24-2013, 01:16 PM
Champ Bailey- He has definately lost a step, with Champ you can just say "I need your number to be around 8 Mill the next 2 years" and it is done.

Joe Mays- well, no matter what......his stupid contract....... he gets 500K this year, I say cut him, this is a clear case of a player getting his money and then putting out crap for effort. Goodbye cancer.

DJ Williams- He is in a contract year, not worth 6 mil anyway, restructure to 4 mil or cut/trade.

Thoughts ????

Krugan
01-24-2013, 01:20 PM
Champ will get his, and the lost a step isnt all that accurate. On the deep play to smith, Champ was running with him, and in fact ahead of the play, so he misplayed the ball.

Mays, lots of cap eater there, shame they through him a big contract.

DJ, im torn here, imo, he contribution is replaceable. That being said, it seems you get the most out of players in contract years, IF he can stop drinking and driving and playing with fake pee, he could have a huge year.

Yep I didnt answer a thing.

Cugel
01-24-2013, 01:29 PM
D.J. is gone, baby gone! He's due $6 million next year. There is no way on God's green earth the Broncos are paying D.J. anything remotely like $6 million.

Probably not even $2 million.

He didn't cost that much this year because they didn't have to pay him during his suspension. He was a low cost, quality backup. Next year is going to be very different because he's due starter money and Wesley Woodyard took his job.

D.J. did not earn it back either.

As for Joe Mays he got the $4 million contract and then was HURT. He wasn't just sucking all year! What is this "cancer" nonsense? He's very good in run-support (which the Broncos sure could have used against the Ravens!!!!)

But, he's a liability in pass-coverage, especially against the faster, elite TEs like Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski. I shudder to think of Joe Mays trying to cover either over the middle.

If the Broncos are unable to upgrade their MLB position in FA, then Joe Mays will be back. Then the team may draft a MLB, because Nate Irving has turned out to be a total bust, and is never going to start.

They even got Keith Brooking rather than move Irving into the lineup. Nothing against Brooking who exceeded expectations this season. But, he's 100 years old and playing on fumes. If he comes back it will be for his leadership in the locker room, not his impact on the field.

As for Champ, people are over-reacting. He had a bad game. Does that prove he's washed up? No.

Probably next season the defense does not isolate him in coverage as much and gives him some safety help over the top against the better WRs.

He's probably 1 more season away from moving to S, assuming he's willing to do that. He might not be. Sometimes there's a conflict with the player saying "I can still play CB" while the coaches are saying "we think it would be better for you to move to S."

Bailey could demand to be traded to a team where he'd be the starting CB. There are a lot of teams that would take him too and let him play CB. Don't know that he'd want that, but it could happen.

Cugel
01-24-2013, 01:39 PM
I'm more worried about the safeties. They could use some taller safeties like the Seahawks have. The days of 5'8" safeties like Jim Leonhard are probably limited.

I vividly remember against the Ravens Leonhard futilely trying to swat down a pass and the receiver who had 6 inches on him simply out leaped him and made a huge play. You can't cover today's big NFL receivers with Jim Leonhard.

That's why the Jets cut him, NOT because he can't play.

The Broncos get Quinton Carter back next season, which will provide some nice competition for Rahim Moore, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went out and acquired a FA S as well or drafted one in the first 3 rounds.

Mike Adams is also a nice cover S, but he's only 5'11" and they could use some taller safeties. Moore is at least 6'1" which gives him reasonable height, and so is Quinton Carter.

David Bruton is the tallest of the S's at 6'2" but he's a special teams player.

MasterShake
01-24-2013, 01:57 PM
I'm not comfortable saying Champ lost a step based on one game (especially when Moore looked lost at safety half the game). For a majority of the year he was charged with taking care of players like Steve Smith and others with no problem at all. I don't know any corner that can cover their guy (especially a younger, speedier reciever) but Champ is still the closest thing we have to that. I still want him and Chris Harris as the 1 and 2 corners. Mays and Williams are expendable in my opinion, but I wouldn't mind keeping Williams for depth.

rationalfan
01-24-2013, 02:37 PM
Champ Bailey- He has definately lost a step, with Champ you can just say "I need your number to be around 8 Mill the next 2 years" and it is done.

Joe Mays- well, no matter what......his stupid contract....... he gets 500K this year, I say cut him, this is a clear case of a player getting his money and then putting out crap for effort. Goodbye cancer.

DJ Williams- He is in a contract year, not worth 6 mil anyway, restructure to 4 mil or cut/trade.

Thoughts ????

how is joe mays a team cancer? he didn't play well, but i didn't read any reports of him being a bozo.

saying champ lost a step might be true. but everyone needs to keep in mind that if he did lose a step or two he's still steps ahead of most corners. tell me someone available who's going to be as productive and dependable as him for that kind of money. gotta be realistic here.

i've always like DJ - still think the fans gave him a very bad rap. but he's not worth that money anymore.

TXBRONC
01-24-2013, 04:07 PM
D.J. is gone, baby gone! He's due $6 million next year. There is no way on God's green earth the Broncos are paying D.J. anything remotely like $6 million.

Probably not even $2 million.

He didn't cost that much this year because they didn't have to pay him during his suspension. He was a low cost, quality backup. Next year is going to be very different because he's due starter money and Wesley Woodyard took his job.

D.J. did not earn it back either.

As for Joe Mays he got the $4 million contract and then was HURT. He wasn't just sucking all year! What is this "cancer" nonsense? He's very good in run-support (which the Broncos sure could have used against the Ravens!!!!)

But, he's a liability in pass-coverage, especially against the faster, elite TEs like Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski. I shudder to think of Joe Mays trying to cover either over the middle.

If the Broncos are unable to upgrade their MLB position in FA, then Joe Mays will be back. Then the team may draft a MLB, because Nate Irving has turned out to be a total bust, and is never going to start.

They even got Keith Brooking rather than move Irving into the lineup. Nothing against Brooking who exceeded expectations this season. But, he's 100 years old and playing on fumes. If he comes back it will be for his leadership in the locker room, not his impact on the field.

As for Champ, people are over-reacting. He had a bad game. Does that prove he's washed up? No.

Probably next season the defense does not isolate him in coverage as much and gives him some safety help over the top against the better WRs.

He's probably 1 more season away from moving to S, assuming he's willing to do that. He might not be. Sometimes there's a conflict with the player saying "I can still play CB" while the coaches are saying "we think it would be better for you to move to S."

Bailey could demand to be traded to a team where he'd be the starting CB. There are a lot of teams that would take him too and let him play CB. Don't know that he'd want that, but it could happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if Williams is cut loose. I don't understand your comment about him becoming a starter again. The linebacking corps was playing very well the team was winning so it was unlikely he was going unseat Woodyard or Brookings by the time he came back from his suspension.

Mays was replaced in week 6 and it was doubtful he was going get much playing time. He wasn't all that great as run stuffer. Brookings was playing on running downs and was generally replaced on obvious passing downs.

I agree knee jerk reactions to what happened with Bailey two weeks ago. If I'm not mistaken Fox was asked if thought maybe Bailey should be moved to safety and he said he couldn't see that happening. I'm sure Bailey has probably lost a step but doesn't mean he's forgotten how to play the position.

silkamilkamonico
01-24-2013, 05:07 PM
Mays was hardly a "cancer".

He was a run stopping MLB, the team played well with him on 1st and second down, who was thrusted into 3rd down coverage because of Williams, and he got eaten up.

Mays wasn't even a 3rd down RB in college, has never played that role in the NFL, and now all of a sudden was asked to play one of the hardest roles. This is like taking Miller out of the role of rushing the passer and make him a coverage LB. he would suck too (although he actually got better at it).

Yea he sucked on 3rd down. Yea, he is probably overpaid. He is hardly a cancer, he's a very good special teams player, and he's a great teammate. I would love to keep him for a special teams type contract but I don't think that's happening.

broncohead
01-24-2013, 05:31 PM
I think the numbers speak for themselves with champ. Is he washed up? No but obviously not the same player he used to be. I'm hoping our safeties improve in coverage. Idk what we will do with DJ. He is a guy who will probably start at MLB if we keep him. Woodyard keeps his job. I don't see a point in releasing DJ just to draft a replacement when he can start. He can walk after his contract year. Mays is overpaid and this isn't a run first league anymore so saying he can play early downs doesn't apply anymore.

tubby
01-24-2013, 05:35 PM
I disagree that Champ has clearly lost a step. He got burned bad once all freaking year. It happened in the first quarter in the Balt game. It happens. The other TD by Smith was a good throw and catch. Not much you can do.

Mays - paycut or cut
DJ - paycut or cut

cmc0605
01-24-2013, 05:36 PM
I'm not worried about Champ. He had an amazing year, and deserved a pro bowl trip. The game against the Ravens was a fluke, and wasn't because he couldn't keep up. He got "truly beat" on one deep ball (the first offensive touchdown for the Ravens), but was also playing outside technique, so maybe he was expecting help. The other Torrey Smith TD, Champ was running right along side him the whole time, and Torrey just snatched it out of the air. Champ usually plays the ball better than that, but it had nothing to do with his speed. No, he's not the same Champ of 8 years ago when he picked off every other ball his way, but he has still been extremely reliable and better than virtually anyone else we can put on the field via free agency or draft. Yes, he had a bad game, but a bad game for a corner means screwing up a couple of plays...it's an unfortunate position in that respect, but I also think he made the necessary adjustments in the second half.

Mays is whatever to me. I don't think he'll be a starting defender.

I like D.J. Williams, but I think how much of a priority he is depends on the teams plan in free agency or draft. Woodyard and Miller absolutely are the starters outside. None of those three guys are true MLBs though, and even Miller sometimes plays like a standing DE, but usually someone won't be on the field at any given time. I think the group did well at mixing up the playing time in the last half of the season when Williams was back, but we still need a true MLB outside of Brooking.

TXBRONC
01-24-2013, 05:40 PM
I'm not comfortable saying Champ lost a step based on one game (especially when Moore looked lost at safety half the game). For a majority of the year he was charged with taking care of players like Steve Smith and others with no problem at all. I don't know any corner that can cover their guy (especially a younger, speedier reciever) but Champ is still the closest thing we have to that. I still want him and Chris Harris as the 1 and 2 corners. Mays and Williams are expendable in my opinion, but I wouldn't mind keeping Williams for depth.

A few years ago in a preseason was asked if could still run the 40 as fast as he did in earlier and Champs answers "Who cares?" Given his age he probably isn't quite as fast as he was he was 23 years old. That doesn't mean he's forgotten how to play the position or that the with loss of speed so great he can't stay with elite receivers.

rationalfan
01-24-2013, 06:30 PM
Mays wasn't even a 3rd down RB in college, has never played that role in the NFL, and now all of a sudden was asked to play one of the hardest roles. This is like taking Miller out of the role of rushing the passer and make him a coverage LB. he would suck too (although he actually got better at it).

i agree with you on mays, but you might want to might want to check that fact about him not playing 3rd downs in college.

DenBronx
01-24-2013, 11:17 PM
I'm skeptical about the Broncos asking Bailey to restructure. He has been a damn good player, been clean off the field and a leader on the defense. How do you ask a 12 time probowler to take a couple mill less? Because what? Because he had his worst game all year during the last game of the year? Thats all people remember but he did pretty damn good the whole year other than that one game.

DJ, yes restructure him if possible but him and Mays are good for depth and have experience if they need to jump in if someone gets injured.

Like I said in another thread, id be happy if the whole team came back. We could have won that game and who knows what would have happened after that. One more year of these guys under Del Rio is going to do them all some good.

pnbronco
01-25-2013, 04:16 AM
Mays was hardly a "cancer".

He was a run stopping MLB, the team played well with him on 1st and second down, who was thrusted into 3rd down coverage because of Williams, and he got eaten up.

Mays wasn't even a 3rd down RB in college, has never played that role in the NFL, and now all of a sudden was asked to play one of the hardest roles. This is like taking Miller out of the role of rushing the passer and make him a coverage LB. he would suck too (although he actually got better at it).

Yea he sucked on 3rd down. Yea, he is probably overpaid. He is hardly a cancer, he's a very good special teams player, and he's a great teammate. I would love to keep him for a special teams type contract but I don't think that's happening.

Mays is anything but a Cancer. He is loved in the locker room. He was brought in for special teams and ended up having to do a whole lot more than anyone thought so they rewarded him with a larger contract.

He was in over his head with 3rd downs and then got suspended for the hit on the QB who's name I can't remember. During the suspension they felt like Brooking did a better job so he got moved back to ST and then got hurt.

BTW Ben Garlands graduated from the Air Force Academy. When they graduate they are able to buy a pair of swords, but only one pair. Ben left his pair at his Grandparents house in Colo Springs. The house was destroyed in the fires and the swords were ruined. Joe Mays got several of the D players to chip in and contacted the Air Force explaining what happened to see if they could replace the Swords. Well they did and gave them to Ben. Joe also went out every day that the Broncos scheduled to try to bring some joy to the people and families that were hurt in the Aurora shooting.

Who knows how well he will heal or if the Broncos go in a different direction, but it has nothing to do with Joe being a Cancer.

As for Bailey. I think they said it best on the radio. He's a little more like a normal CB and still better than most. So now they will have to give him the help that most CB's get. Plus no one had a good game that day and I won't over react till I see what happens next year.

bcbronc
01-25-2013, 04:58 AM
DJ and Mays will likely be asked to do less next season, and their pay should show that. Champ you only restructure if you need the cap space.

TXBRONC
01-25-2013, 09:51 AM
Mays is anything but a Cancer. He is loved in the locker room. He was brought in for special teams and ended up having to do a whole lot more than anyone thought so they rewarded him with a larger contract.

He was in over his head with 3rd downs and then got suspended for the hit on the QB who's name I can't remember. During the suspension they felt like Brooking did a better job so he got moved back to ST and then got hurt.

BTW Ben Garlands graduated from the Air Force Academy. When they graduate they are able to buy a pair of swords, but only one pair. Ben left his pair at his Grandparents house in Colo Springs. The house was destroyed in the fires and the swords were ruined. Joe Mays got several of the D players to chip in and contacted the Air Force explaining what happened to see if they could replace the Swords. Well they did and gave them to Ben. Joe also went out every day that the Broncos scheduled to try to bring some joy to the people and families that were hurt in the Aurora shooting.

Who knows how well he will heal or if the Broncos go in a different direction, but it has nothing to do with Joe being a Cancer.

As for Bailey. I think they said it best on the radio. He's a little more like a normal CB and still better than most. So now they will have to give him the help that most CB's get. Plus no one had a good game that day and I won't over react till I see what happens next year.

I find it interesting for it to be ok that Manning isn't same quarterback that he was four years ago yet we can say he's still elite. Bailey has one bad game therefore he's no longer an elite corner so he should be moved to safety. Ok so he's not the same player he was four years ago that doesn't mean he can't physically handle the position or mysterious he's forgotten how to play cornerback.

bcbronc
01-25-2013, 03:34 PM
I find it interesting for it to be ok that Manning isn't same quarterback that he was four years ago yet we can say he's still elite. Bailey has one bad game therefore he's no longer an elite corner so he should be moved to safety. Ok so he's not the same player he was four years ago that doesn't mean he can't physically handle the position or mysterious he's forgotten how to play cornerback.

I don't really think it's fair to say it's a reaction to this one bad game. There's been talk of if/when Champ should move for at least a couple of seasons now.

Jaded
01-25-2013, 04:10 PM
I don't really think it's fair to say it's a reaction to this one bad game. There's been talk of if/when Champ should move for at least a couple of seasons now.

So.......when do we move Clady to C?.......

bcbronc
01-25-2013, 04:12 PM
So.......when do we move Clady to C?.......

Too big to be a good C at the pro level.

Jaded
01-25-2013, 04:29 PM
Too big to be a good C at the pro level.

Wasn't Bruce Matthews 6-6 or something?.......

bcbronc
01-25-2013, 09:36 PM
Wasn't Bruce Matthews 6-6 or something?.......

Does it really matter? :lol: