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VonMiller58
01-20-2013, 09:34 PM
I've been thinking a lot lately about life after Peyton. Though I expect him to be around for another 2 years, and I expect us to be Super Bowl contenders for the next 2 years. But when Peyton retires, and if we manage to retain most of our players, what do you think will happen?

I'm just a little weary of the future seeing as how Brock Osweiler is only a 15 game starter for AZ state. He completed 63% of his passes for 4,036 yards, 26 TDs and 13 interceptions, which is a decent year for a 15 game starter QB. What do you guys think about him?

Jsteve01
01-20-2013, 09:36 PM
Just dont know enough. I will say this though. I was on record as liking wilson and kaepernick the past two seasons so he better end up being damn good because we could have drafted either of them.

Northman
01-20-2013, 09:38 PM
I like Oz and liked him at ASU even in limited time so i think we will be fine.

VonMiller58
01-20-2013, 09:38 PM
Just dont know enough. I will say this though. I was on record as liking wilson and kaepernick the past two seasons so he better end up being damn good because we could have drafted either of them.

Yeah that's a good point, we did take him before some very good QBs. It will be hard to compare him to these guys since they have way more NFL experience than Osweiler now.

SR
01-20-2013, 09:39 PM
Not worried about it yet.

Too far away.

Northman
01-20-2013, 09:42 PM
Kapernick learned a lot by sitting, Rodgers behind Favre, so for Oz to sit behind Manning is the best thing possible for him.

Jaded
01-20-2013, 10:03 PM
The Broncos need to draft Colin Klein in April and install the Double-Inverted-Bone-Spread-Shoot in May.......

Jaded
01-20-2013, 10:11 PM
Just dont know enough. I will say this though. I was on record as liking wilson and kaepernick the past two seasons so he better end up being damn good because we could have drafted either of them.

Broncos fans woulda flipped the **** out if they drafted Kaepernick. The new regimes first draft and they draft a QB with what they no doubt thought was the same abilities as Teebs? The Broncos woulda had the circus going full retard from the get-go.

Wilson is not what they were looking for in a QB, so while you may have liked him the Broncos apparently didn't.......

Northman
01-20-2013, 10:13 PM
Broncos fans woulda flipped the **** out if they drafted Kaepernick. The new regimes first draft and they draft a QB with what they no doubt thought was the same abilities as Teebs? The Broncos woulda had the circus going full retard from the get-go.

Wilson is not what they were looking for in a QB, so while you may have liked him the Broncos apparently didn't.......

Emmm, no. Kaepernick can actually pass unlike Tebow. And the Niners didnt have to give up 3 draft picks to move up for a TE/FB hybrid.

Jaded
01-20-2013, 10:14 PM
Fwiw, Osweiler couldn't carry Wilson's jock at this point, imo.......

Jaded
01-20-2013, 10:15 PM
Emmm, no. Kaepernick can actually pass unlike Tebow. And the Niners didnt have to give up 3 draft picks to move up for a TE/FB hybrid.

I never said he couldn't, I always looked forward to watching him in a real offense. But we're not talking about your opinion and mine, we're talking about billions of idiots who think John Elway is jealous of Tebow's college resume.......

VonMiller58
01-20-2013, 10:42 PM
Couldn't you argue Jim Sorgi who spent from 2004 - 2009 with the Colts, after spending 5 seasons as a back up and learning from Peyton, you'd think perhaps it would help him become a decent QB, even though he was drafted in the 6th round. Well he was released in March 2010 and now is UFA. Curtis Painter 2009 - 2011 spent two years as back up to Peyton and when he got his chance to start... well we all know what happened.

Now I know Osweiler was taken in the 2nd round, so you expect him to be better than Jim Sorgi, and Curtis Painter, but that's not always the case. I just hope hes learning the playbook, and taking in all the tips Peyton is offering him. Hopefully he is progressing and not letting whatever ego he has get in the way.

Northman
01-20-2013, 10:51 PM
Couldn't you argue Jim Sorgi who spent from 2004 - 2009 with the Colts, after spending 5 seasons as a back up and learning from Peyton, you'd think perhaps it would help him become a decent QB, even though he was drafted in the 6th round. Well he was released in March 2010 and now is UFA. Curtis Painter 2009 - 2011 spent two years as back up to Peyton and when he got his chance to start... well we all know what happened.

Now I know Osweiler was taken in the 2nd round, so you expect him to be better than Jim Sorgi, and Curtis Painter, but that's not always the case. I just hope hes learning the playbook, and taking in all the tips Peyton is offering him. Hopefully he is progressing and not letting whatever ego he has get in the way.

Thats like saying guys like Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf are great because they were first rounders. Not EVERY QB is going to be good but i find it funny that you are already writing him off when we havent had a chance to even see what he can do. Also keep in mind, just because Kaepernick and Wilson did well this year does not mean they will repeat it. Can you say Derek Anderson? Im just saying be careful on jumping on these guys jocks early, they may have a sophomore slump once teams get more and more film no them.

VonMiller58
01-20-2013, 10:56 PM
Thats like saying guys like Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf are great because they were first rounders. Not EVERY QB is going to be good but i find it funny that you are already writing him off when we havent had a chance to even see what he can do. Also keep in mind, just because Kaepernick and Wilson did well this year does not mean they will repeat it. Can you say Derek Anderson? Im just saying be careful on jumping on these guys jocks early, they may have a sophomore slump once teams get more and more film no them.

I've been skeptical of the Seahawks next season because this year was a fairy tale season for them, and a lot of luck (Green Bay game). So I've never really been sold on either of them, I'm just stating they both had relatively good seasons. Anyway, I'm just very skeptical of a 15 game starter. But, John Fox, John Elway, Mike McCoy, Adam Gase and Brian Xanders all flew down to AZ to hold a private workout with Osweiler, so Elway saw something in him. Not sure if I see it, but that's I'm here, and Elway is where he is.

Chidoze
01-20-2013, 10:59 PM
He couldnt be worse than Kyle Orton could he?... It doesnt get any worse than that for me.

Northman
01-20-2013, 11:03 PM
I've been skeptical of the Seahawks next season because this year was a fairy tale season for them, and a lot of luck (Green Bay game). So I've never really been sold on either of them, I'm just stating they both had relatively good seasons. Anyway, I'm just very skeptical of a 15 game starter. But, John Fox, John Elway, Mike McCoy, Adam Gase and Brian Xanders all flew down to AZ to hold a private workout with Osweiler, so Elway saw something in him. Not sure if I see it, but that's I'm here, and Elway is where he is.

Well, doesnt mean that Elway got it right. We just dont know yet. But when you get guys like Sharpe or Terrell Davis late in the draft and they become something than the same could be said for Oz. Then again, he could come in and shit the bed. Its all a risk when you draft and all you can hope for as an organization is that you make the correct call.

Dzone
01-20-2013, 11:17 PM
whos got a stronger arm, Elway in his prime or Osweiler?

Jaded
01-20-2013, 11:33 PM
Elway now.......

TXBRONC
01-21-2013, 12:32 AM
I've been thinking a lot lately about life after Peyton. Though I expect him to be around for another 2 years, and I expect us to be Super Bowl contenders for the next 2 years. But when Peyton retires, and if we manage to retain most of our players, what do you think will happen?

I'm just a little weary of the future seeing as how Brock Osweiler is only a 15 game starter for AZ state. He completed 63% of his passes for 4,036 yards, 26 TDs and 13 interceptions, which is a decent year for a 15 game starter QB. What do you guys think about him?

That's legitimate conern but the thing is with him on the bench (barring injury to Manning) that will give Fox and his staff will plenty of time to much better idea as what they have in him.

TXBRONC
01-21-2013, 12:41 AM
Couldn't you argue Jim Sorgi who spent from 2004 - 2009 with the Colts, after spending 5 seasons as a back up and learning from Peyton, you'd think perhaps it would help him become a decent QB, even though he was drafted in the 6th round. Well he was released in March 2010 and now is UFA. Curtis Painter 2009 - 2011 spent two years as back up to Peyton and when he got his chance to start... well we all know what happened.

Now I know Osweiler was taken in the 2nd round, so you expect him to be better than Jim Sorgi, and Curtis Painter, but that's not always the case. I just hope hes learning the playbook, and taking in all the tips Peyton is offering him. Hopefully he is progressing and not letting whatever ego he has get in the way.

IIRC when Sorgi came out pro scouts viewed him as possibly developing into a solid back up but not a starter. While we will never know it has been said if Osweiler had stayed he might have end up as number one pick in this year's draft.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 02:00 AM
I sure hope JFE got this one right because he is not going to give ANY consideration to OTHER options over the next 3 YEARS!
no daftees
no free agents,
NADA
the replacement , heir apparant has been filled.
ALL OTHERS need not apply.

TXBRONC
01-21-2013, 08:17 AM
I sure hope JFE got this one right because he is not going to give ANY consideration to OTHER options over the next 3 YEARS!
no daftees
no free agents,
NADA
the replacement , heir apparant has been filled.
ALL OTHERS need not apply.

No one here has any idea what will happen over the next three years.

Well no shit Osweiler is seen as the heir apparent. It would be idiotic to draft a quarterback every year until Manning retires besides that all indication for the up coming draft is that the quarterback class is weak at best.

As far as free agency what the hell do you expect that over the next three years more elite quarterback are going to hit free agenc?. If you think that Zam you're being naive. Quarterbacks like Manning who still have something left in the tank rarely hit the open market. The last time I remember something like that happening was like three decades ago.

Dapper Dan
01-21-2013, 08:27 AM
I think the best thing Oz has going for him is when he does take over, he will be taking over a solid team. The reason most quarterbacks fail is because they are drafted high and are the only good player on the team. The front office will continue to add a lot of good pieces over the next 3 or so years. Coaching will also be a key. I don't think Oz could go to their teams and beat out any of the rookie quarterbacks, but I believe Oz would be a better quarterback than all of them (besides Luck and probably RG3 if he's still playing) in 3-5 years. I don't like feeling this confident, but the front office seems to be making all the right moves.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 12:05 PM
No one here has any idea what will happen over the next three years.

Well no shit Osweiler is seen as the heir apparent. It would be idiotic to draft a quarterback every year until Manning retires besides that all indication for the up coming draft is that the quarterback class is weak at best.

As far as free agency what the hell do you expect that over the next three years more elite quarterback are going to hit free agenc?. If you think that Zam you're being naive. Quarterbacks like Manning who still have something left in the tank rarely hit the open market. The last time I remember something like that happening was like three decades ago.
so smith and vick are not going to be on the open market, silly me.

SR
01-21-2013, 12:08 PM
so smith and vick are not going to be on the open market, silly me.

Alex Smith and Mike Vick are nowhere near Peyton Manning. Once again the point totally escaped your feeble little mind.

silkamilkamonico
01-21-2013, 12:10 PM
No one here has any idea what will happen over the next three years.

Well no shit Osweiler is seen as the heir apparent. It would be idiotic to draft a quarterback every year until Manning retires besides that all indication for the up coming draft is that the quarterback class is weak at best.

As far as free agency what the hell do you expect that over the next three years more elite quarterback are going to hit free agenc?. If you think that Zam you're being naive. Quarterbacks like Manning who still have something left in the tank rarely hit the open market. The last time I remember something like that happening was like three decades ago.
so smith and vick are not going to be on the open market, silly me.

Both those starters either lost their job, or flat out got beat out by the backup.

Elite qbs dont get beat out by their backup.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 12:10 PM
I think the best thing Oz has going for him is when he does take over, he will be taking over a solid team. The reason most quarterbacks fail is because they are drafted high and are the only good player on the team. The front office will continue to add a lot of good pieces over the next 3 or so years. Coaching will also be a key. I don't think Oz could go to their teams and beat out any of the rookie quarterbacks, but I believe Oz would be a better quarterback than all of them (besides Luck and probably RG3 if he's still playing) in 3-5 years. I don't like feeling this confident, but the front office seems to be making all the right moves.so the best thing about OS is not actually Os, but the opportunity afforded him. insert another QB and the same would be true.
the worst thing about OS is ALSO not OS, but the door shut closed on any other alternatives because JFE has made his bed.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 12:14 PM
Both those starters either lost their job, or flat out got beat out by the backup.

Elite qbs dont get beat out by their backup.
so montana was not elite/
thanks for the clarity.
drew bledsoe?

.. and I guess the cardinals were IDIOTS to pick up kurt warner after the giants threw him out with the trash?
WTf was i thinking?

I guess plunkett should give back his ring?

BroncoJoe
01-21-2013, 12:14 PM
Zam, do you just bitch for the sake of bitching? It gets old. No wonder many people here think you're a quack.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 12:17 PM
Both those starters either lost their job, or flat out got beat out by the backup.

Elite qbs dont get beat out by their backup.
the chargers went with the back-up, RIVERS, and got rid of the trash, DREW BREES.
yep elite QBs NEVER end up on other teams, thanks silky for your perspective on reality.

SR
01-21-2013, 12:23 PM
so montana was not elite/
thanks for the clarity.
drew bledsoe?

.. and I guess the cardinals were IDIOTS to pick up kurt warner after the giants threw him out with the trash?
WTf was i thinking?

I guess plunkett should give back his ring?

Montana was elite but he was not playing at a high level. Bledsoe was not elite. Kurt Warner failed big time with the Giants and his stock went down. The Cards gambled big time on Warner and when Warner first went there he was a backup.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 12:23 PM
Zam, do you just bitch for the sake of bitching? It gets old. No wonder not many people here think you're a quack.dance little puppet, dance.
did I bring up OS? have I said anything negative abour OS?
no, I expressed my concern about the closed door policy that he represents.
I could post,"the sun sets in the west"
and you would be annoyed.

SR
01-21-2013, 12:24 PM
the chargers went with the back-up, RIVERS, and got rid of the trash, DREW BREES.
yep elite QBs NEVER end up on other teams, thanks silky for your perspective on reality.

Drew Brees was not elite when he went to NO and was coming off of a MAJOR injury courtesy of the Denver Broncos.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 12:29 PM
aj smith did not think brees was elite.
oh, and feel free to ignore all my other examples.
dance, puppet, dance.
next you will be telling us all that MONTANA sucked so you can justify your habitual arguement with zam.
I cant wait.

SR
01-21-2013, 12:31 PM
aj smith did not think brees was elite.
oh, and feel free to ignore all my other examples.
dance, puppet, dance.
next you will be telling us all that MONTANA sucked so you can justify your habitual arguement with zam.
I cant wait.

Obviously you didn't comprehend anything I said. I replied to every player you mentioned except Plunkett.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 12:34 PM
Drew Brees was not elite when he went to NO and was coming off of a MAJOR injury courtesy of the Denver Broncos.
yes, I see where you mentioned
montana
bledsoe
how did i miss that?
and your insight on WARNER was definatly comprehensive.

SR
01-21-2013, 12:35 PM
yes, I see where you mentioned
montana
bledsoe
how did i miss that?
and your insight on WARNER was definatly comprehensive.

All accurate. And even if any one of those guys were all at their peak, none of them parallel Peyton Manning.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 12:44 PM
Montana was elite but he was not playing at a high level. Bledsoe was not elite. Kurt Warner failed big time with the Giants and his stock went down. The Cards gambled big time on Warner and when Warner first went there he was a backup.
thanks, for your input.
I did not see this originally.
each of these QBs that are mentioned do indicate that quality 9elite0 QBs do end up on other teams, for various reasons!
each of these QBs provide leadership as STARTERS and the BEST of them MONTANA. failed to get back to the SB'
while others, actually returned to the SB with new teams and a few of them actually WOPN a LOMBARDI !
so silks contention about FA QBs is absurd .
hello, anyone old enough to remeber craig morton?

this thread, NOT started about me, asks for a discussion about OS and the broncos future.
again, I post.
my biggest concern is that OS represents a closed door policy for any other considerations over the next 3 years.
I can only hope that OS justifies his exclusive position on our roster.
We are making the same commitment to OS that GB made to aaron rogers, I hope it turns out just as well.

Dapper Dan
01-21-2013, 01:22 PM
Smith and Vick aren't options. They'll require starter money. Why pay starter money for a guy to sit behind Manning? I still can't figure out what Zam's point is. Oz is suppose to sit and learn behind Manning and take over when Manning retires. Should we have a plan in case Oz doesn't pan out? That would be a waste of money. No team in the NFL goes after a star to be the third string QB in case the first retires and the second doesn't work out. If Oz doesn't work out, there will be a draft and free agency then also.

NightTerror218
01-21-2013, 01:28 PM
I think oz could be a very good QB. he was #4 rated in the draft above Foles and Wilson. I wanted us to get Wilson just cause of his poise in pocket and all around skills. I do not care he "short" and look at him now. IF Oz can be the next Flacco/Ryan I would be happy but I want more. With a canon of an arm like Oz has, I would like to see a wicked fast WR that can just burn people down the field with speed.

MasterShake
01-21-2013, 01:42 PM
I think oz could be a very good QB. he was #4 rated in the draft above Foles and Wilson. I wanted us to get Wilson just cause of his poise in pocket and all around skills. I do not care he "short" and look at him now. IF Oz can be the next Flacco/Ryan I would be happy but I want more. With a canon of an arm like Oz has, I would like to see a wicked fast WR that can just burn people down the field with speed.

The way the NFL is going it looks like the standard dink and dunk pocket passer might be a thing of the past. Mobile option QB's like Wilson and Kaepernick and Long Range Missile QB's like Flacco will be the preferred form of attack the next few years perhaps. The way they have neutered defenses, both types can be successful and I for one would like to see Osweiler get his chance when Peyton's tenure is done.

silkamilkamonico
01-21-2013, 02:08 PM
so montana was not elite/
thanks for the clarity.
drew bledsoe?

.. and I guess the cardinals were IDIOTS to pick up kurt warner after the giants threw him out with the trash?
WTf was i thinking?

I guess plunkett should give back his ring?

Montana? So now you are saying that Nick Foles and Colin Kaepernick are Hall of Fame QB's like Steve Young was and Tom Brady is?

Your arguments just get worse, and worse, and worse.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 02:12 PM
Smith and Vick aren't options. They'll require starter money. Why pay starter money for a guy to sit behind Manning? I still can't figure out what Zam's point is. Oz is suppose to sit and learn behind Manning and take over when Manning retires. Should we have a plan in case Oz doesn't pan out? That would be a waste of money. No team in the NFL goes after a star to be the third string QB in case the first retires and the second doesn't work out. If Oz doesn't work out, there will be a draft and free agency then also.vick and smith are only EXAMPLES of why silks contention that top QBs are NEVER available in free agency just simply is not true.
neither is an option for the broncos.
NO QB IS AN OPTION FOR THE BRONCOS OVER THE NEXT 3 YEARS,
that is my point.
'is brock osweiler going to be worth the exclusive position he now holds.'
that is my concern.
does brock justify overlooking every other QB opportunity between now and whenever PFM retires?

silkamilkamonico
01-21-2013, 02:19 PM
vick and smith are only EXAMPLES of why silks contention that top QBs are NEVER available in free agency just simply is not true.
neither is an option for the broncos.
NO QB IS AN OPTION FOR THE BRONCOS OVER THE NEXT 3 YEARS,
that is my point.
'is brock osweiler going to be worth the exclusive position he now holds.'
that is my concern.
does brock justify overlooking every other QB opportunity between now and whenever PFM retires?

You're "concerns", from the MLB position, to the S position, to the DE position, to the QB position, to the drafting position, have all been incorrect up until this point.

I think we should rejoice in the fact that we now have our future HoF QB in Brock, thanks to your "concern".

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 02:26 PM
y
Montana? So now you are saying that Nick Foles and Colin Kaepernick are Hall of Fame QB's like Steve Young was and Tom Brady is?

Your arguments just get worse, and worse, and worse.no thats not even remotly close to what I am saying little puppet. but pof course, AS ALWAYS, my detractors have to make shit up and misrepresent what i post to try and win an arguement.


silk, my little marionete, you said that QBs who lose their jobs to their back-ups are not elite and dont offer anything to a new team in free agency.
i merely pointed out a half dozen examoples, just off the top of my head, that shoot very large holes in your statement.
do you even know who craig morton is?
vick and smith are going to lose their starting jobs to their back-ups. they are going to go to some other teams. they both have the potential to lead those teams to superbowl, just like,
morton,
brees,
warner,
plunkett,
and they might even help a team get better, like MONTANA did for the cheifs and PFM is doing for us.
silk, you were wrong to make the assertion, dont embarrass yourself trying to defend it.

Dzone
01-21-2013, 02:28 PM
Osweiler is taller and stronger than Flacco and Kaepernick...

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 02:34 PM
You're "concerns", from the MLB position, to the S position, to the DE position, to the QB position, to the drafting position, have all been incorrect up until this point.

I think we should rejoice in the fact that we now have our future HoF QB in Brock, thanks to your "concern".please share with me the game winning performances tendered by our MLB, S and QB on saturday, just to releave my concerns
nice attempt to change the subject, BTW.

SR
01-21-2013, 02:34 PM
thanks, for your input.
I did not see this originally.
each of these QBs that are mentioned do indicate that quality 9elite0 QBs do end up on other teams, for various reasons!
each of these QBs provide leadership as STARTERS and the BEST of them MONTANA. failed to get back to the SB'
while others, actually returned to the SB with new teams and a few of them actually WOPN a LOMBARDI !
so silks contention about FA QBs is absurd .
hello, anyone old enough to remeber craig morton?

this thread, NOT started about me, asks for a discussion about OS and the broncos future.
again, I post.
my biggest concern is that OS represents a closed door policy for any other considerations over the next 3 years.
I can only hope that OS justifies his exclusive position on our roster.
We are making the same commitment to OS that GB made to aaron rogers, I hope it turns out just as well.

No starting QB has ever won a ring with two separate teams Zam.

SR
01-21-2013, 02:36 PM
Osweiler is taller and stronger than Flacco and Kaepernick...

Nowhere near as fast as Kaepernick and he doesn't have the quick release of Kaepernick. No doubt he throws the ball as hard though. If Oz can throw as pretty of a ball as Flacco, color me excited.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 02:36 PM
Osweiler is taller and stronger than Flacco and Kaepernick...thats no guarantee of success.
no QB in the NFL is stronger than tebow.
30 of the NFL starting QBs are taller than brees.
sorry, tall and strong are not amongst the first 5 attributes i look for in a QB.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 02:39 PM
No starting QB has ever won a ring with two separate teams Zam.show me where I said that and I will never post hear again!
once again my little puppets try to pretend i said something i did not.
regarding your comment..
I guess it would therefore be ludicrous for us to expect PFM to do it?
maybe you should back away from your knee jerk reaction to just argue with zam, and think about what you are posting.

SR
01-21-2013, 02:46 PM
show me where I said that and I will never post hear again!
once again my little puppets try to pretend i said something i did not.
regarding your comment..
I guess it would therefore be ludicrous for us to expect PFM to do it?
maybe you should back away from your knee jerk reaction to just argue with zam, and think about what you are posting.

It's in the post of yours I quoted in my reply where you said some of them have one Lombardi trophies.

I think if anyone has a shot to do it, it's Peyton.

Maybe you should quit being so defensive and see that I am actually trying to have a legitimate conversation with you.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 02:48 PM
Both those starters either lost their job, or flat out got beat out by the backup.

Elite qbs dont get beat out by their backup.
wrong!
montana
brees
warner
plunkett
morton
bledsoe
and soon to be smith and vick.
all examples of QBs who got 'beat out by their back-ups.
and these are just a few examples that emmediatly came to mind.
dare I mention favre?
hell PFM lost his job to a draft spot, he didnt even get the chance to compete.

NightTerror218
01-21-2013, 02:55 PM
IMO I want to hear about brock working with a QB coach during the offseason. I saw some improvement during the KC game in his mechanics. i would like to see him keep working on them.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 02:55 PM
thanks, for your input.
I did not see this originally.
each of these QBs that are mentioned do indicate that quality 9elite0 QBs do end up on other teams, for various reasons!
each of these QBs provide leadership as STARTERS and the BEST of them MONTANA. failed to get back to the SB'
while others, actually returned to the SB with new teams and a few of them actually WOPN a LOMBARDI !
so silks contention about FA QBs is absurd .
hello, anyone old enough to remeber craig morton?

this thread, NOT started about me, asks for a discussion about OS and the broncos future.
again, I post.
my biggest concern is that OS represents a closed door policy for any other considerations over the next 3 years.
I can only hope that OS justifies his exclusive position on our roster.
We are making the same commitment to OS that GB made to aaron rogers, I hope it turns out just as well.
here is my quote, nowhere do I say that a QB won a SB with 2 different teams, nowhere!
warner, and morton took new teams to the SB
plunkett and brees won the SB with new teams.
montana never made it back to the SB, but who wants to assert thAT HE WAS NOT ELITE?
apparently silky has that impression?
or maybe he just failed to think for a moment before he automaticly tried to discredit zambini.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 03:04 PM
I dont want to just HEAR abouit brocks work, I need to see him on the field PLAYING. i dont want JFE to feel compeklled to hide him from view and keep him off the field against quality compettiion in pre-season like he did this year !
lets see what the kids got !


lets not accept the #3 rotation while being given the #2 ranking on the depth chart !

just one part of my big concern !

NightTerror218
01-21-2013, 03:09 PM
he will be #2 next season and we will see him in preseason.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 03:12 PM
I would expect so.
then I can formulate an opinion on his ability rather than his exclusivity.

BroncoJoe
01-21-2013, 03:14 PM
I would expect so.
then I can formulate an opinion on his ability rather than his exclusivity.

You seem to have formed one already.

Just like you had on Holliday.

NightTerror218
01-21-2013, 03:15 PM
You seem to have formed one already.

Just like you had on Holliday.


and champ

slim
01-21-2013, 03:15 PM
You seem to have formed one already.

Just like you had on Holliday.

Holliday is clueless.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 03:32 PM
this is not the holiday thread. but I would expect silky or one of his BOR associates to bring him up to divert attention from the subject at hand.
It would be nice to see BO on the field against top tier competition so I can formulate a WRONG impression about him too.

NightTerror218
01-21-2013, 03:34 PM
I liked Oz's improved mechanics in the KC game. Shows he is improving. Glad he is riding the pine and learning how to be a QB.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 03:39 PM
and champyes my opinion of champ has always been that he is the broncos best defender.
silly me.

Chef Zambini
01-21-2013, 03:41 PM
champ, holiday?
lets bring up lelie and goodman while we are at it
plummer and shanahantoo.
they all fit in to the os discussion and his future with the broncos.

MOtorboat
01-21-2013, 04:51 PM
Is anyone else having a hard time understanding exactly what Zam thinks Denver should be doing with the quarterback position, specifically the back up?

I'm unbelievably confused. If someone could spell his argument out in English it might help.

SR
01-21-2013, 04:54 PM
Is anyone else having a hard time understanding exactly what Zam thinks Denver should be doing with the quarterback position, specifically the back up?

I'm unbelievably confused. If someone could spell his argument out in English it might help.

He wants Oz to play in a regular season game against a big team to gauge whether or not he is a capable backup to Manning and worthy of being dubbed the QB of the future. I think.

Northman
01-21-2013, 04:55 PM
This thread isnt complete until we mention Tebow.

SR
01-21-2013, 04:58 PM
This thread isnt complete until we mention Tebow.
let's get a chant going

MOtorboat
01-21-2013, 04:58 PM
He wants Oz to play in a regular season game against a big team to gauge whether or not he is a capable backup to Manning and worthy of being dubbed the QB of the future. I think.

See, I didn't get that at all.

SR
01-21-2013, 05:06 PM
See, I didn't get that at all.

Damn. There is a really good possibility that I'm wrong too. Happens often.

MOtorboat
01-21-2013, 05:10 PM
Damn. There is a really good possibility that I'm wrong too. Happens often.

I'm starting to think he wanted to go without a backup quarterback this year, because at one point I think he was just randomly typing names of quarterbacks who are under contract with other teams. Or, he wanted Joe Montana to come back and be Manning's backup. One or the other, but I can't figure it out.

SR
01-21-2013, 05:14 PM
I'm starting to think he wanted to go without a backup quarterback this year, because at one point I think he was just randomly typing names of quarterbacks who are under contract with other teams. Or, he wanted Joe Montana to come back and be Manning's backup. One or the other, but I can't figure it out.

Joe Montana as a backup! BRILLIANT!

NightTerror218
01-21-2013, 05:19 PM
let's get a chant going

why am I hearing a former football player chanting "teeeeeboooowwwoooooo" after the jets game. M. Irving maybe?

topscribe
01-21-2013, 06:24 PM
This thread isnt complete until we mention Tebow.
:smack:
.

vettesplus
01-21-2013, 08:34 PM
Not worried about it yet.

Too far away.

might want to start thinking about it, next season if manning goes down, the broncos 2nd playoff run will be over!!!

SR
01-21-2013, 08:40 PM
might want to start thinking about it, next season if manning goes down, the broncos 2nd playoff run will be over!!!

Same thing could have been said about this season. I don't live my life by "what if" scenarios.

MOtorboat
01-21-2013, 08:41 PM
Same thing could have been said about this season. I don't live my life by "what if" scenarios.

And nearly every quarterback in the league. Ever.

SR
01-21-2013, 08:56 PM
And nearly every quarterback in the league. Ever.

Fact

TXBRONC
01-21-2013, 10:39 PM
the chargers went with the back-up, RIVERS, and got rid of the trash, DREW BREES.
yep elite QBs NEVER end up on other teams, thanks silky for your perspective on reality.

So Alex Smith and Michael Vick are elite quarterbacks? :rofl:

MOtorboat
01-21-2013, 10:40 PM
So Alex Smith and Michael Vick are elite quarterbacks? :rofl:

He doesn't know what he's trying to say...Isn't that obvious?

TXBRONC
01-21-2013, 10:49 PM
He doesn't know what he's trying to say...Isn't that obvious?

It's was a stab in the dark.

Jaded
01-22-2013, 12:27 AM
I dont want to just HEAR abouit brocks work, I need to see him on the field PLAYING. i dont want JFE to feel compeklled to hide him from view and keep him off the field against quality compettiion in pre-season like he did this year !
lets see what the kids got !


lets not accept the #3 rotation while being given the #2 ranking on the depth chart !

just one part of my big concern !

I don't care how concerned you are, I sincerely hope we don't see Osweiler for years.......

swaiy
01-22-2013, 12:42 AM
Nobody's hiding Brock lol. Manning was coming off a year away from football and needed the reps during preaseason.

Im sure Elway sat down with Fox and said, you cant play Brock during the preseason or that nut Zambini on the forums will see him

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 01:48 AM
So Alex Smith and Michael Vick are elite quarterbacks? :rofl:can you say that brock is better than either of them?
BOTH will START next season, both have excellent NFL experience.
both are capable of winning an NFL game in 2013.
who can say the same about brock?
and if you dont think JFE was hiding brock from the realities of NFL football last pre-season by putting him #3 in the QB rotation for the ENTIRE pre-season,. and then declaring him the #2 QB, then you are lying to yourself or you are just not very smart.
it was painfully obvious that JFE did NO wan to expose BO to top NFL defensive personnel, and he sure as hell did not want us to see him struggle after so much was ade of his selection !
"elite" thats an ambiguos phrase. Can they win games in the right sytem with the right team, absolutely.
do they have ANYTHING to do with the broncos, absolutely NOT.
but... we can probably think of 8 teams that would love to have EITHER as their starting QB !
arizona
cleveland
jets
jacksonville
miami
KC
vikings
raiders
maybe even Tampa?
for those teams aquiring either smith or vick would be an ELITE opportunity.

DenBronx
01-22-2013, 02:41 AM
Elway wants a guy who can win from the pocket with his arm, not a scrambling little genie.

MOtorboat
01-22-2013, 07:50 AM
can you say that brock is better than either of them?
BOTH will START next season, both have excellent NFL experience.
both are capable of winning an NFL game in 2013.
who can say the same about brock?
and if you dont think JFE was hiding brock from the realities of NFL football last pre-season by putting him #3 in the QB rotation for the ENTIRE pre-season,. and then declaring him the #2 QB, then you are lying to yourself or you are just not very smart.
it was painfully obvious that JFE did NO wan to expose BO to top NFL defensive personnel, and he sure as hell did not want us to see him struggle after so much was ade of his selection !
"elite" thats an ambiguos phrase. Can they win games in the right sytem with the right team, absolutely.
do they have ANYTHING to do with the broncos, absolutely NOT.
but... we can probably think of 8 teams that would love to have EITHER as their starting QB !
arizona
cleveland
jets
jacksonville
miami
KC
vikings
raiders
maybe even Tampa?
for those teams aquiring either smith or vick would be an ELITE opportunity.

Not sure if you know who Peyton Manning is or not, but Denver doesn't need a starter next year.

TXBRONC
01-22-2013, 08:14 AM
Not sure if you know who Peyton Manning is or not, but Denver doesn't need a starter next year.

Not surprising he's not even aware that it's Fox who sets the depth chart.

Rick
01-22-2013, 08:59 AM
I'm not sure anyone can say Alex Smith is elite. Until last season he has never been very good, seems to be a system guy to me. If he were so elite, he wouldn't have been replaced.

TXBRONC
01-22-2013, 10:17 AM
I'm not sure anyone can say Alex Smith is elite. Until last season he has never been very good, seems to be a system guy to me. If he were so elite, he wouldn't have been replaced.

Smith is now solid starting quarterback and he knows and has said he want to be starter. Since that's how he views himself why would he want to come to Denver as back up quarterback? Vick has never been elite either and now at this point in his career I don't even see him as a solid starting quaterback.

CrazyHorse
01-22-2013, 10:29 AM
I wouldn't mind Alex Smith as a replacement to Caleb Hanie. I hope we get to see what Brock has after we lock up the 1st seed next year at 14-2.

MOtorboat
01-22-2013, 10:30 AM
Smith is now solid starting quarterback and he knows and has said he want to be starter. Since that's how he views himself why would he want to come to Denver as back up quarterback? Vick has never been elite either and now at this point in his career I don't even see him as a solid starting quaterback.

It wouldn't be very intelligent of Elway to bring in a guy who is noted for being the last one in to work and the first one to leave, to backup such a hard-working, cerebral guy as Manning.

TXBRONC
01-22-2013, 10:50 AM
It wouldn't be very intelligent of Elway to bring in a guy who is noted for being the last one in to work and the first one to leave, to backup such a hard-working, cerebral guy as Manning.

Which guy are you talking about Smith or Vick? Besides that they both view themselves as starters so why would they want to ride the bench for the next three years.

TXBRONC
01-22-2013, 10:52 AM
I wouldn't mind Alex Smith as a replacement to Caleb Hanie. I hope we get to see what Brock has after we lock up the 1st seed next year at 14-2.

Hanie is a third string quarterback who was deactivated most of the season.

MOtorboat
01-22-2013, 11:01 AM
Which guy are you talking about Smith or Vick? Besides that they both view themselves as starters so why would they want to ride the bench for the next three years.

Vick.

Neither are going to take a backup role to Manning anyway...

TXBRONC
01-22-2013, 11:15 AM
Vick.

Neither are going to take a backup role to Manning anyway...

I thought that's who you meant but I just wanted to make sure.

They've both said that publically. Smith has been in the League for eight years and is 28 years old. That would mean by the time he would get his next shot he would be around 31 or 32 years of age.

Vick is a 32 years old. Yeah he's really going to be willing to wait until he's 35 or 36 years of age to start again. :rolleyes:

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 11:50 AM
Is anyone else having a hard time understanding exactly what Zam thinks Denver should be doing with the quarterback position, specifically the back up?

I'm unbelievably confused. If someone could spell his argument out in English it might help.I am not so much concerned with OS' ability, as i am his exclusive right to the throne.
I t concerns me that JFE actually hid BO from top compettition last year in the pre-season.
I watched BO as a sun devil, and I did not see an NFL caliber performance out of him, but I do trust JFE!
having said that BO was JFEs son's college roomate, so I am concerned that the decision to make BO the heir apparent to the starting QB has been more GRANTED than EARNED !
not vick, not smith, not ANYONE ELSE is going to get the chance to compete for the job of next bronco QB, the job has been HANDED to brock and nobody else is even going to get the chance to compete!
THATS MY CONCERN !
I am not suggesting the broncos bring in smith or vick, I am suggesting that JFE has already made his bed and hes not going to back away from that position over the next 3 years.

MOtorboat
01-22-2013, 12:07 PM
I am not so much concerned with OS' ability, as i am his exclusive right to the throne.
I t concerns me that JFE actually hid BO from top compettition last year in the pre-season.
I watched BO as a sun devil, and I did not see an NFL caliber performance out of him, but I do trust JFE!
having said that BO was JFEs son's college roomate, so I am concerned that the decision to make BO the heir apparent to the starting QB has been more GRANTED than EARNED !
not vick, not smith, not ANYONE ELSE is going to get the chance to compete for the job of next bronco QB, the job has been HANDED to brock and nobody else is even going to get the chance to compete!
THATS MY CONCERN !
I am not suggesting the broncos bring in smith or vick, I am suggesting that JFE has already made his bed and hes not going to back away from that position over the next 3 years.

So?

TXBRONC
01-22-2013, 12:19 PM
So?

I love Zam's line how he's worried that Elway selected Osweiler based on the fact Osweiler and Jack Elway were college roommates. So what he's really saying is Elway is incompetent and lazy.

MOtorboat
01-22-2013, 12:23 PM
I love Zam's line how he's worried that Elway selected Osweiler based on the fact Osweiler and Jack Elway were college roommates. So what he's really saying is Elway is incompetent and lazy.

Zam is always smarter than the execs...watch...

Dear Zam,

What do you think of Mike Shanahan?

Sincerely,
MO

:slowlybacksawayfromcomputer:

BroncoJoe
01-22-2013, 12:23 PM
I love Zam's line how he's worried that Elway selected Osweiler based on the fact Osweiler and Jack Elway were college roommates. So what he's really saying is Elway is incompetent and lazy.

Most of his comments aren't even worth the eye strain to read, which is minimal. His football knowledge is equal to that of my cat, and his predictions are as reliable as a Ouija board.

Rick
01-22-2013, 12:52 PM
I don't think Smith will want to be a backup anywhere, my response was mainly towards a poster that was considering Smith Elite.

I do think Smith will get a shot as starter somewhere, I could see him being brought in to compete for starter with the Jets.

IMO he is a slightly better game manager QB than Orton, mainly because he has the ability to move a little atleast.

Vick...I think he is pretty much done and will go the way of Mcnabb, he will be brought in by a team or 2 that is hoping that Vick can be a star QB and in each situation the team will just realize there is nothing left and cut him.

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 01:07 PM
I love Zam's line how he's worried that Elway selected Osweiler based on the fact Osweiler and Jack Elway were college roommates. So what he's really saying is Elway is incompetent and lazy.dance little puppet dance!
another fine example of a zambasher NEEDING to mis-represent what I post to try and win an arguement.
My signature, for all of last season praised JFE for being a hero on and off the field, yes, I was definatly calling him incompetent and lazy, shame on zambini, he is so evil.

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 01:13 PM
I don't think Smith will want to be a backup anywhere, my response was mainly towards a poster that was considering Smith Elite.

I do think Smith will get a shot as starter somewhere, I could see him being brought in to compete for starter with the Jets.

IMO he is a slightly better game manager QB than Orton, mainly because he has the ability to move a little atleast.

Vick...I think he is pretty much done and will go the way of Mcnabb, he will be brought in by a team or 2 that is hoping that Vick can be a star QB and in each situation the team will just realize there is nothing left and cut him.BOTH smith and vick will get STARTING JOBS FOR THE 2013 NFL SEASON.
"elite" is an ambiguos phrase, I have already stated that.
"what defines elite" post that thread and you will get a dozen different answers.
smith and vick can help their new teams win games and be competitive, IF they find the right situation.
I made no other qualifications or guarantees !
But i do guarantee they will both be starters for new teams in 2013.

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 01:14 PM
caveat, the eagles may keep vick if he gives back on his contract.

MOtorboat
01-22-2013, 01:16 PM
BOTH smith and vick will get STARTING JOBS FOR THE 2013 NFL SEASON.
"elite" is an ambiguos phrase, I have already stated that.
"what defines elite" post that thread and you will get a dozen different answers.
smith and vick can help their new teams win games and be competitive, IF they find the right situation.
I made no other qualifications or guarantees !
But i do guarantee they will both be starters for new teams in 2013.

So...how are they relevant to this discussion then?

You just spend five pages talking about them, and this post admits they have nothing to do with the Broncos.

Rick
01-22-2013, 01:23 PM
Brock is a guy we have right now that gets a few years to hone mechanics, get use to NFL speed, learn how to read defenses well, and study the master.

Once all the head stuff is worked on it can be paired with a guy who has some athleticism, is tall enough to see over the line, and has the arm strength to make every throw.

There is NO guarantee with any young guy you bring in to be your franchise guy, it is always a gamble. At least with this gamble we have time to work with him.

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 01:32 PM
just because it is an IDEAL situation, that doies not justify the xclusive use of the opportunity.
if brock is the next aaron rogers, then yes, it does, but I dont see anything in brocks asu performances that would justify his eclusive opportun ity.
the fact that he was "hidden from view" justifies my concern.

Rick
01-22-2013, 01:37 PM
I think initially the Broncos had every intention of having Hanie as the main backup and really taking the time with Brock to make sure they developed him right, gave him all the time he needed, so they gave more preseason to Manning and Hanie.

Turns out in the end it wasn't really worth giving a active roster spot to Hanie, but in the beginning I don't think it had anything to do with "hiding" but everything to do with not rushing.

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 01:40 PM
So...how are they relevant to this discussion then?

You just spend five pages talking about them, and this post admits they have nothing to do with the Broncos.Mo IO cant control the responses of my little puppets, I can only respond to them. you damn well know that silk made a brash broad stroak comment that elite QBs do not get replaced by their back-ups and thatts how this whole vick-smith tangeant got started.
follow the trail NOWJHERE did I suggest that either be a bronco, in fact the door being shut on themand
everyone else, is at the very core of my comment on
OSWEILER AND HIS FUTURE WITH THE BRONCOS, for the TENTH time in this thread.
I am more concerned with the exclusive nature of brocks opportunity, than any other part of this dynamic!
i FEEL THAT jfe HAS PANTED HIMSELF IN TO A CORNER AND NO OTHER qb wuill get a chance to florish in the same opportunity.
I QUESTION BROCK as jusification for that exclusive role.
YOU AND THE OTHER bior members can try to make it more than that, but thats what it is !

did you like what you saw from brock against first string defenses?

MOtorboat
01-22-2013, 01:41 PM
just because it is an IDEAL situation, that doies not justify the xclusive use of the opportunity.
if brock is the next aaron rogers, then yes, it does, but I dont see anything in brocks asu performances that would justify his eclusive opportun ity.
the fact that he was "hidden from view" justifies my concern.

Prove that "fact."

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 01:46 PM
I think initially the Broncos had every intention of having Hanie as the main backup and really taking the time with Brock to make sure they developed him right, gave him all the time he needed, so they gave more preseason to Manning and Hanie.

Turns out in the end it wasn't really worth giving a active roster spot to Hanie, but in the beginning I don't think it had anything to do with "hiding" but everything to do with not rushing.really?
was aaron rogers taking #3 rotation snaps in practice and pre-season games?
really?
is that the potential of an heir apparent, to be less than a haine?
this gives you confidense in brock
really?
why do you think tebow was the #2 on the depth chart but never the starter when sanchez was not?
are you not concerned that brock was handed the #2 title, just lik tebow was handed the #2 title with the jets?
did brock earn it on the field, did you like what you saw with brock against first string competition?
really?

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 01:53 PM
Prove that "fact."
what FACT
tyhere is no fact. it is just my opinion, which BTW is worse than joe's cats football opinion.
facts
1q. osweiler is tall
2. brock was jack elways roommate
3. brock was listed as the #3 QB and never took a snap against a starting defense or even second string defense in the pre season.4. without displaying it on the field, brock was moved from #3 to #2 by JFE in a response to his critics who asked,
if brock is the heir apparent, why isnt he better than haine?
brock has not EARNED anything, he has been handed everything, again just my opinion !
JFE hid brock from top compettition because he did not want to be embarrassed by the results and evoke criticism, again justmy opinion !


over the next 3 years the broncos will NOT bring in a legitimate RIVAL to BROCK!
thats FACT until elway proves otherwise!

MOtorboat
01-22-2013, 01:54 PM
Osweiler was second off the bench in three of the four preseason games (Hanie did start the final game, and Osweiler was second off the bench). He was listed as second on the depth chart at some point during training camp as well. And he entered the season as the backup, and remained the backup.

Your theory isn't holding up very well, Zam.

Rick
01-22-2013, 01:55 PM
When Cutler came in he was #3, he had to beat out BVP to get #2...which of course he did.

When Tebow came in he was #2B, he had to compete with Quinn to be #2.

When Brock came in he was #3 and had to beat out Hanie to be #2.

Seems like a common theme to me.

Unlike the other situations we have Manning as #1 for a number of years still and have NO reason to rush the young guy whereas it could be argued in the other situations we did have a reason to try and rush the young guy a bit.

I didn't see enough of Brock against number 1's to make any kind of judgement, good or bad, but I would bet Elway and Co has seen Brock play against THEIR number 1's enough to make a judgement, I will leave it up to them.

MOtorboat
01-22-2013, 01:59 PM
When Cutler came in he was #3, he had to beat out BVP to get #2...which of course he did.

When Tebow came in he was #2B, he had to compete with Quinn to be #2.

When Brock came in he was #3 and had to beat out Hanie to be #2.

Seems like a common theme to me.

Unlike the other situations we have Manning as #1 for a number of years still and have NO reason to rush the young guy whereas it could be argued in the other situations we did have a reason to try and rush the young guy a bit.

I didn't see enough of Brock against number 1's to make any kind of judgement, good or bad, but I would bet Elway and Co has seen Brock play against THEIR number 1's enough to make a judgement, I will leave it up to them.

Preseason games mean so very little. Training camp practices mean a LOT more. I know fans, like myself and Zam and everyone posting here, don't get to see those practices, so that can be hard to understand but its the truth.

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 02:01 PM
Osweiler was second off the bench in three of the four preseason games (Hanie did start the final game, and Osweiler was second off the bench). He was listed as second on the depth chart at some point during training camp as well. And he entered the season as the backup, and remained the backup.

Your theory isn't holding up very well, Zam.I disagree with this perspective.
haine was always listed as the #2,tell rick he is wrong!
I dont recall brock EVER playing against either first or second string defenses in the pre-season !
if JFE brings in a RIVAL to compete with BROCK (not manning) I will no longer harbour the same concerns i have now.
but i dont see that happening because JFE has already demonstrated a defensive posture about the way BO was selected.

Chef Zambini
01-22-2013, 02:03 PM
I am not so much concerned with OS' ability, as i am his exclusive right to the throne.
I t concerns me that JFE actually hid BO from top compettition last year in the pre-season.
I watched BO as a sun devil, and I did not see an NFL caliber performance out of him, but I do trust JFE!
having said that BO was JFEs son's college roomate, so I am concerned that the decision to make BO the heir apparent to the starting QB has been more GRANTED than EARNED !
not vick, not smith, not ANYONE ELSE is going to get the chance to compete for the job of next bronco QB, the job has been HANDED to brock and nobody else is even going to get the chance to compete!
THATS MY CONCERN !
I am not suggesting the broncos bring in smith or vick, I am suggesting that JFE has already made his bed and hes not going to back away from that position over the next 3 years.THIS !
my concern about osweiler is THIS !

MOtorboat
01-22-2013, 02:13 PM
THIS !
my concern about osweiler is THIS !

There's no proof to any of THAT !

BroncoJoe
01-22-2013, 02:54 PM
Yep. He pretty much SUCKED at ASU.

H5G6B-snaSM

Rick
01-22-2013, 03:18 PM
The nice thing to see in that vid is he has the strength to throw it down field BUT he also has the control to throw the short screen.

The screen may be overlooked but I compare it to when I am outside playing football with my son. The height difference between my son and I and brock and a RB is probably similar and I can say for me it is FAR more difficult for me to hone in on that small area up close and deliver accurately compared to when I am throwing him a lob down the field. In close I have to concentrate ALOT more so I hit his hands and not his nuts or head...

The fact that he at 6-8 can throw with nice control to a small window target in close to the RB is impressive.

Of course I am not actually a QB, he is, but that is how I relate to it.

TXBRONC
01-22-2013, 03:21 PM
dance little puppet dance!
another fine example of a zambasher NEEDING to mis-represent what I post to try and win an arguement.
My signature, for all of last season praised JFE for being a hero on and off the field, yes, I was definatly calling him incompetent and lazy, shame on zambini, he is so evil.

Yes every time you get called on the carpet you fall back on your "I'm a victim" mantra. In your words you said you were concerned about Elway choosing his son's college roomate because he was his son's college roommate. That is basically calling Elway incompetent. I can't help it that you contridict youself constantly.

Northman
01-22-2013, 03:36 PM
Yes every time you get called on the carpet you fall back on your "I'm a victim" mantra. In your words you said you were concerned about Elway choosing his son's college roomate because he was his son's college roommate. That is basically calling incompetent. I can't help it that you contridict youself constantly.


He does contradict himself a lot. I just learned to tune him out.

TXBRONC
01-22-2013, 03:44 PM
He does contradict himself a lot. I just learned to tune him out.

Most of the time I do.

Chef Zambini
01-23-2013, 03:06 AM
Yes every time you get called on the carpet you fall back on your "I'm a victim" mantra. In your words you said you were concerned about Elway choosing his son's college roomate because he was his son's college roommate. That is basically calling Elway incompetent. I can't help it that you contridict youself constantly.my comment suggests that JFE may have been influenced by his familiarity with BO. It does not come close to implying that JFE was either lazy or incompetent.
thats your spin thats your aTTEMPT TO DISCREDIT ME.


YOUR MOPTHER TOLD ME LAST NIGHT ITS SOMETHING YOU ALWAYS DO WHEN CORNERED
she also said you tried to hide your peas under your mashed potatos.
where did I contradict myself?

Chef Zambini
01-23-2013, 03:18 AM
brock has a college highlight package, whoopty-doo!
so does SANCHEZ abd TEBOW ! anybody want to bank our future on EITHER of them?
I admit I did not watch every game brock played at ASU, what was it 10 total?
but the games I did watch, it never occured to me that he was an NFL quality QB.sorry.

Chef Zambini
01-23-2013, 03:21 AM
well apparently all the rest of you are confortable with manning and brock as the only viable QBs in bronco camp over the next 3 years.
and when PFM does hang it up, you all are confident that brock is the man !

TXBRONC
01-23-2013, 09:49 AM
my comment suggests that JFE may have been influenced by his familiarity with BO. It does not come close to implying that JFE was either lazy or incompetent.
thats your spin thats your aTTEMPT TO DISCREDIT ME.


YOUR MOPTHER TOLD ME LAST NIGHT ITS SOMETHING YOU ALWAYS DO WHEN CORNERED
she also said you tried to hide your peas under your mashed potatos.
where did I contradict myself?

MOPTHER? Are insinuating my dad banged a mop? :viking:


Your suggestion that Elway may have been influenced by familiarity is irrational. It's as assinine as saying Elway would have drafted Andrew Luck based on the fact he went to same University that Elway matriculated from. Like it or not, and whether or not you intended it or your irrational views suggest that Elway is either incompetent or lazy. No Zam I'm not spinning anything in attempt to discredit you. You're doing it all on your own bud. :2thumbs:

MOtorboat
01-23-2013, 09:56 AM
well apparently all the rest of you are confortable with manning and brock as the only viable QBs in bronco camp over the next 3 years.
and when PFM does hang it up, you all are confident that brock is the man !

Yup.

I trust John Elway, because he's in a position to know what's better for a team than anyone else, especially you.

TXBRONC
01-23-2013, 10:06 AM
Yup.

I trust John Elway, because he's in a position to know what's better for a team than anyone else, especially you.

How can you MO? I mean obviously Elway makes buisness decisions based on superficial familiarity with college players.

I suppose if we had drafted Andrew Luck Zam would have made the same fasle accusation.

Chef Zambini
01-23-2013, 11:37 AM
false accusation. exactly. bo was his sons roommate and JFE had no idea who he was. to suggest otherwise is a false accusation.
I said, that JFE's familiarity with BO, his sons rpoomate may have influenced his decision.
thats a ludicrous assumption, I know.

Chef Zambini
01-23-2013, 11:42 AM
so neither mo or tex think there should be a rival to brock and his exclusive assention to the throne as the next bronco QB.
what about the rest of you?
do you think BO has earned or deserves the exclusive role?
or do some of you think there should be a legitimate rival in camp every year?

MOtorboat
01-23-2013, 11:50 AM
so neither mo or tex think there should be a rival to brock and his exclusive assention to the throne as the next bronco QB.
what about the rest of you?
do you think BO has earned or deserves the exclusive role?
or do some of you think there should be a legitimate rival in camp every year?

You type some really ignorant things.

Ravage!!!
01-23-2013, 11:54 AM
false accusation. exactly. bo was his sons roommate and JFE had no idea who he was. to suggest otherwise is a false accusation.
I said, that JFE's familiarity with BO, his sons rpoomate may have influenced his decision.
thats a ludicrous assumption, I know.

No. That's not what you've said in the past. You ahve specifically said that John Elway made the decision BASED on the fact that he was his son's roommate. Not that he was "influenced".. or that he was "more familiar" with him (which would actually be a good thing)...No. You've said that John Elway was BLINDED by the fact that he was junior's roommate, and that JE "mortgaged" this team's future on Brock Os because he WAS the roommate. Don't back off your absurd stance now.

The ONLY way that being the roommate 'influenced' John's decision, is that it gave JE the ability to know him better. Probably had more conversations with him over time, learning how he thinks, learning his personality, probably giving bits of advice from time to time, seeing how the kid progressed through his college career, and learned (from a personal perspective) his line of thought as to the process of being a QB. JE had the chances to see, first hand, how football intelligent he is, what he does to improve, and hears the questions that Brock asks. All good things, and all things that most GMs would love to have the opportunity to know before they draft any top position.

Personally... if JE had the chance to get to know the player (from a personal stand point) and knowing ALLLLL that JE knows about the game, what is needed to succeed, and what is needed to have the BEST CHANCE to succeed... and STILL chooses to draft him, is a GOOD thing.

It doesn't matter if Brock turns out to be the difference maker over the long term. It doesn't matter if Brock is the "franchise" QB.

But why would I want to draft ANOTHER QB?? The ONLY reason you would want that, is if you just don't like Brock as a QB. If that's the case, fine. But quit making it out to be that JE is being "blinded" by the fact that Os was the roommate of his son, and THAT is what made his decision (which is EXACTLY what you have done).

The questions surrounding Manning's health and road to coming back, made it important that Elway have a back-up plan. A plan B.

"What are you going to do if Manning can't come back?"
"What are you going to do if Manning's shoulder just isn't strong enough, yet?"
"Who is going to play if Manning gets injured again?"
"What are you going to do if Manning doesn't work out?"
"What are you going to do if Manning has a set back in his rehab?"

The answer was put into motion. Hiring some vet to replace Manning doesn't benefit anyone. You aren't going to move forward with some vet that was available. None are very good, and none are going to take you to the Super Bowl. So what does Elway do? He drafts a guy in the 2nd round, that was projected to be a 1st round prospect if he stayed in college another season. A young guy that has a lot of young potential, that has the opportunity to sit and learn from Manning.... AND... if things go badly with Manning, could be the young talent that could come in and learn on the job. No nepatism. No mortgaging the future. No simply taking a kid because he was your son's roommate. If he waits to see if Manning CAN'T go, then its too late to draft a QB.

Chef Zambini
01-23-2013, 12:59 PM
The ONLY way that being the roommate 'influenced' John's decision, is that it gave JE the ability to know him better. Probably had more conversations with him over time, learning how he thinks, learning his personality, probably giving bits of advice from time to time, seeing how the kid progressed through his college career, and learned (from a personal perspective) his line of thought as to the process of being a QB. JE had the chances to see, first hand, how football intelligent he is, what he does to improve, and hears the questions that Brock asks. All good things, and all things that most GMs would love to have the opportunity to know before they draft any top position.


rav all this is exactly my point.thanks.

Chef Zambini
01-23-2013, 01:05 PM
so rav, having defended the brock selection so convincingly, do you feel he is deserving of an exclusive, NON-RIVAL assention to the throne?

MOtorboat
01-23-2013, 01:08 PM
The ONLY way that being the roommate 'influenced' John's decision, is that it gave JE the ability to know him better. Probably had more conversations with him over time, learning how he thinks, learning his personality, probably giving bits of advice from time to time, seeing how the kid progressed through his college career, and learned (from a personal perspective) his line of thought as to the process of being a QB. JE had the chances to see, first hand, how football intelligent he is, what he does to improve, and hears the questions that Brock asks. All good things, and all things that most GMs would love to have the opportunity to know before they draft any top position.


rav all this is exactly my point.thanks.

:moonwalk:

Chef Zambini
01-23-2013, 01:11 PM
again I have to point out to all the zam bashers who go out of their way to create the evil empire that is the mind of zambini, that my #1 concern about osweiler his the exclusive nature of his opportunity, not in hius ability or the selection process.
but becvause the selection process met with so much scrutiny, and NOT just by me, I see JFE taking a very defensive posture regarding BO, and that just magnifies the potential for BO to continue without RIVAL !
again, that is my greatest concern !
brock shouild have a legitimate rival, facing him in camp every season until PFM is done !

MOtorboat
01-23-2013, 01:12 PM
again I have to point out to all the zam bashers who go out of their way to create the evil empire that is the mind of zambini, that my #1 concern about osweiler his the exclusive nature of his opportunity, not in hius ability or the selection process.
but becvause the selection process met with so much scrutiny, and NOT just by me, I see JFE taking a very defensive posture regarding BO, and that just magnifies the potential for BO to continue without RIVAL !
again, that is my greatest concern !
brock shouild have a legitimate rival, facing him in camp every season until PFM is done !

You have been bashing the pick for MONTHS because Osweiler roomed with Jack Elway, and now you're backtracking because you were called out on it.

Ravage!!!
01-23-2013, 01:17 PM
so rav, having defended the brock selection so convincingly, do you feel he is deserving of an exclusive, NON-RIVAL assention to the throne?

What are you talking about? Non-rival?

FIrst you complained that Elway was drafting Osweiler PURELY because he was the roommate of his son. Now you are back-tracking on that. You complained that Elway SHOULD have used the 2nd round pick on another player instead of "mortgaging" the future on Brock. Now, you are trying to somehow justify the use of ANOTHER draft pick to compete for a starting job 3 years down the road when we don't even know the future of Brock right now, and are somehow trying to put a scenario that people think Brock has earned some kind of starting role??

Just shut up.

Chef Zambini
01-23-2013, 01:18 PM
I said JFE was INFLUENCED by it, I may have even said it was MYOPIC, rav discribes EXACTLY how that close association could have influenced the decision !
it was perfect!
i would not change a word! and rav is also correct to say that every GM would love to be able to know a candidate for the roster as well as JFE got to know brock, that too is 100% correct!
but that familiarity caN ALSO be a negative. especially if it EXCLUDES others !
but MO you continue to worry about me and not our QB in waiting.

Chef Zambini
01-23-2013, 01:22 PM
and yet neither rav or mo will answer a very simple question. should brock continue without rival?
they will waste all of our time making up scenarios and offering half truths to bash zam, but they are AFRAID to answer a simple question, THE question , the ESSENCE of my oft stated concern!


should brock be allowed to assend to the role of bronco starting QB without a legitimate rival?
simple question, that both rav, mo and the entire BOR crew will avoid.

Ravage!!!
01-23-2013, 01:26 PM
and yet neither rav or mo will answer a very simple question. should brock continue without rival?
they will waste all of our time making up scenarios and offering half truths to bash zam, but they are AFRAID to answer a simple question, THE question , the ESSENCE of my oft stated concern!


should brock be allowed to assend to the role of bronco starting QB without a legitimate rival?
simple question, that both rav, mo and the entire BOR crew will avoid.

Did Manning retire and I miss it? I'm confused. Where is this coming from since it makes NO sense. Brock isn't going unopposed as the starting QB since Manning is the starter. Wouldn't Manning be Brock's opposition to the starting role? I'm looking, but I didn't hear that Peyton retired or quit the Broncos, so I'm pretty confused as to the point of the question.

MOtorboat
01-23-2013, 01:32 PM
Yes, he should be anointed King of Dove Valley.

He hath need no backupeth.

:rolleyes:

Your entire months long tirade is so utterly ridiculous.

Ravage!!!
01-23-2013, 01:42 PM
Zam

Are you still holding onto the unfounded notion that because Elway drafted Os... in the second round.... to be plan B for the Manning signing...... won't be willing to truly evaluate Brock on what he's shown, proved, or done...but will purely start Os because he drafted him??? Seriously? You STILL believe that Elway is Soooo much behind Os, that when the time comes, Elway isn't confident enough in himself as a GM, to make the right decision?

You believe that 3 years down the road (or whatever time is needed).... there won't be competition for Os based on what YOU think YOU saw from him at ASU.. and thus... Because Elway drafted him, won't be willing to draft someone else IF it's needed. ALllllll this based on the fact that Os was young Elway's roommate.

I remember you saying this before, and just still can't seem to make any sense of it.

DenBronx
01-23-2013, 04:34 PM
Zam, I think Brock is insurance at this point and he's also here for the future. He will have time to develop more and more, in the long run its better that he sits. Now, once Manning retires I think the Broncos will look to sign another veteran QB of course and maybe even draft one later....unless someone completely falls in our lap on draft day. These question are impossible to answer right now from the fans.

Manning is here probally for another 3-4 years, so let's just enjoy the ride for now. If Brock is the guy then great, if not then we will try and draft another one. I can't help but think time behind Manning will only be good for him though, he seems much better than the other scrubs who have sat behind Manning before.

Northman
01-23-2013, 04:38 PM
again I have to point out to all the zam bashers who go out of their way to create the evil empire that is the mind of zambini, that my #1 concern about osweiler his the exclusive nature of his opportunity, not in hius ability or the selection process.
but becvause the selection process met with so much scrutiny, and NOT just by me, I see JFE taking a very defensive posture regarding BO, and that just magnifies the potential for BO to continue without RIVAL !
again, that is my greatest concern !
brock shouild have a legitimate rival, facing him in camp every season until PFM is done !

Andrew Luck didnt have a rival going into camp this year.

Ravage!!!
01-23-2013, 05:31 PM
Andrew Luck didnt have a rival going into camp this year.

What I don't understand is the last sentence.

"Brock should have a legitimate rival, facing him in camp every season, until PFM is done."

That makes sense. People complained that we used a 2nd round pick on a QB to back up Manning. Now he wants to draft MORE QBs to compete for the back-up job, to sit behind Manning. BRILLIANT!!

MOtorboat
01-23-2013, 06:32 PM
What I don't understand is the last sentence.

"Brock should have a legitimate rival, facing him in camp every season, until PFM is done."

That makes sense. People complained that we used a 2nd round pick on a QB to back up Manning. Now he wants to draft MORE QBs to compete for the back-up job, to sit behind Manning. BRILLIANT!!

It's not as if they aren't likely to bring in a veteran and an undrafted, or late-drafted guy for every camp. Every team brings in four guys to camp: the starter, the heir apparent, a veteran and a late-rounder or undrafted quarterback. Every team does this.

TXBRONC
01-23-2013, 10:14 PM
Andrew Luck didnt have a rival going into camp this year.

Neither did RGIII.

TXBRONC
01-23-2013, 10:19 PM
What I don't understand is the last sentence.

"Brock should have a legitimate rival, facing him in camp every season, until PFM is done."

That makes sense. People complained that we used a 2nd round pick on a QB to back up Manning. Now he wants to draft MORE QBs to compete for the back-up job, to sit behind Manning. BRILLIANT!!

He would be ok with bringing in Vick or Smith to be the back up quarterback because obviously those two wouldn't sitting behind Manning for another two or three years. It's not like Vick is 32 years of age and Smith is 28.

MOtorboat
01-23-2013, 10:20 PM
He would be ok with bringing in Vick or Smith to be the back up quarterback because obviously those two wouldn't sitting behind Manning for another two or three years. It's not like Vick is 32 years of age and Smith is 28.

Now hold on...he backtracked on that too. He said its obvious they won't be in Denver...of course after he went on for pages about them.

TXBRONC
01-23-2013, 10:27 PM
and yet neither rav or mo will answer a very simple question. should brock continue without rival?
they will waste all of our time making up scenarios and offering half truths to bash zam, but they are AFRAID to answer a simple question, THE question , the ESSENCE of my oft stated concern!


should brock be allowed to assend to the role of bronco starting QB without a legitimate rival?
simple question, that both rav, mo and the entire BOR crew will avoid.

:drama:

You are full of it. You have been an given an answer 1000 freaking times. It's not their fault you can't comprehend.

capt. Jack
01-24-2013, 05:25 AM
If anything happens to Manning, WE ARE SCREWED, with Brock!

TXBRONC
01-24-2013, 07:49 AM
If anything happens to Manning, WE ARE SCREWED, with Brock!

I don't know of any finite human beings capable of seeing into the future.

Chef Zambini
01-24-2013, 09:16 AM
Yup.

I trust John Elway, because he's in a position to know what's better for a team than anyone else, especially you.ok then, this is mos answer and txbronco and ravage have saluted it so they all agree no need for a third QB, brock is our guy.
so what about the rest of our "viewers'?
do you think brock should have a rival. or are the rest of you also convinced that osweiler is the future denver bronco starting QB?

MOtorboat
01-24-2013, 09:36 AM
ok then, this is mos answer and txbronco and ravage have saluted it so they all agree no need for a third QB, brock is our guy.
so what about the rest of our "viewers'?
do you think brock should have a rival. or are the rest of you also convinced that osweiler is the future denver bronco starting QB?

You are so ******* obtuse.

It's not a black and white yes or no question.


It's not as if they aren't likely to bring in a veteran and an undrafted, or late-drafted guy for every camp. Every team brings in four guys to camp: the starter, the heir apparent, a veteran and a late-rounder or undrafted quarterback. Every team does this.

BroncoJoe
01-24-2013, 09:37 AM
I guess Zam really does like Shanahan. Have two rookie QB's.

TXBRONC
01-24-2013, 11:06 AM
You are so ******* obtuse.

It's not a black and white yes or no question.

Yes the Broncos will go into camp with four quarterbacks. Apparently Zam doesn't undestand there is a limited amount snaps for installation of the offense and defense as well as for development and evaluation of players. This is just a wild ass guess but I'm going to out on a limb and Manning will get the majority of snaps in camp. So I would guess that if Fox is intent on developing and evaluating Osweiler he's going to give him good portion of what is left and other two will get whatever is left over from that.

Ravage!!!
01-24-2013, 11:25 AM
Until there is true reason to believe that Manning is about to retire, I'm not really concerned about the competition for the back-up role. How did that competition work out for the Jets between Tebow and their third? Did it make a difference? This ridiculous obsession with Brock's role on the team is just flat out idiotic.

CoachChaz
01-24-2013, 11:29 AM
I understand the thought process for having competition, but the team is already sold on Os. Period. They used a 2nd round pick on a guy they wanted to groom. So, in the meantime, you give him all the time and opportunity in the world to learn from the master. You gauge how he is progressing in practices, camps, etc. If you arent happy...then you rethink your plan for the future. But until then, just let Brock focus on learning as much as he can in the time he has

Chef Zambini
01-24-2013, 11:59 AM
I understand the thought process for having competition, but the team is already sold on Os. Period. They used a 2nd round pick on a guy they wanted to groom. So, in the meantime, you give him all the time and opportunity in the world to learn from the master. You gauge how he is progressing in practices, camps, etc. If you arent happy...then you rethink your plan for the future. But until then, just let Brock focus on learning as much as he can in the time he hasthank you, I appreciate your response.
all our eggs are in the brock basket.
I hope it pays off.
I see the potential for another mark sanchez, I hope its more like aaron rogers.

MOtorboat
01-24-2013, 12:06 PM
thank you, I appreciate your response.
all our eggs are in the brock basket.
I hope it pays off.
I see the potential for another mark sanchez, I hope its more like aaron rogers.

It's not even remotely comparable to Mark Sanchez.

:tsk:

Besides, of all years, this is not the year to be opining for a quarterback in the draft. From what I've seen, this quarterback class sucks. Osweiler could have made even more money if he stayed in school another year.

TXBRONC
01-24-2013, 12:16 PM
thank you, I appreciate your response.
all our eggs are in the brock basket.
I hope it pays off.
I see the potential for another mark sanchez, I hope its more like aaron rogers.

Obviously the potential for failure is there for every rookie. Bringing in a rival as you put it doesn't mean that guy will have better chance to succeed.

Osweiler's situation is more like Rodger's situation than Sanchez's.

Ravage!!!
01-24-2013, 12:30 PM
I think he means the skill level is close to Sanchez. He believe Os isn't very good, and is "scared" that Elway is just too committed to the 2nd round pick to ever consider another option if there needs to be one. Zam wants to weed Os out now, and believes that Elway is somehow married to Os's success.

Cugel
01-24-2013, 12:44 PM
I don't know of any finite human beings capable of seeing into the future.

This is a good point. All we have to peer into the foggy future is the example of the past.

And what does the past tell us?

Brock Osweiler was taken at #57 of the 2nd round. Since Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round in 2000, (#199 overall), 108 QBs were taken in the draft after #56.

Of those 108 QBs how many of them didn't suck?

EXACTLY TWO!

Here's the list:
2012 Russell Wilson, drafted #75 in the 3rd round. (We're projecting here off of ONE good season, which is quite risky. How good does Cam Newton look now? How many people were projecting great things for Vince Young after HIS first season and what happened to him?) But, give you Russell Wilson, for now.

2011 -- Nobody. (Ryan Mallett, Ricky Stanzi, T.J Yates, Nathan Enderle, Tyrod Taylor, Greg McElroy). I mention these nobodies because some poster ALWAYS comes back and says "Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round, so it could happen!" Yeah, and I could win the lotto and get a hot date with Jessica Alba. . . could happen theoretically, but I'm not holding my breath and keeping my calender open so I'll be free when Jessica calls!)

Almost all the time, when you draft a QB in the 6th round, you don't get Tom Brady. You get Tyrod Taylor!

2010: Nobody.

2009: Nobody.

2008: Nobody.

2007: Nobody. Trent Edwards and Tyler Thigpen both wound up in KC where they started, but they SUCKED. Bad. So, nobody.

2006: Nobody. Brodie Croyle was KC's "QB of the future" under Herm Edwards. As a result, Herm is in TV broadcasting now.

2005: Nobody. Kyle Orton was taken by the Bears in the 4th round. We all know how great HE was. And Matt Cassel was taken by the Patriots in the 7th. (Are you sensing a theme here? KC seems to be a sink-hole for rotten QBs).

2004: Matt Schaub was taken #90 of the 3rd round. There's certainly a question whether he's ever going to become an elite QB after this season's inevitable fold-o in Foxborough. How are the Texans ever going to get past the Patriots, the Broncos, the Ravens, the Steelers, when they have Matt Schaub.

But, he doesn't suck, so Matt Schaub counts. That year the Broncos drafted Bradlee Van Pelt and Matt Mauch. Remember all the pixels wasted in furious debates about their "potential"? No?

2003: Nobody.

2002: Nobody. 2002 was a horrible year for QBs. 3 teams wasted 1st round draft picks on QBs: and wound up with David Carr, Joey Harrington and Patrick Ramsey. Those teams didn't wind up any better off than the Redskins, who drafted Gilbran Hamdan with the 232nd pick of the 7th round.

2001: Nobody.

2000: Just in case you were wondering who were the QBs taken along with Tom Brady?
1 18 Chad Pennington QB Marshall New York Jets
3 65 Giovanni Carmazzi QB Hofstra San Francisco 49ers
3 75 Chris Redman QB Louisville Baltimore Ravens
5 163 Tee Martin QB Tennessee Pittsburgh Steelers
6 168 Marc Bulger QB West Virginia New Orleans Saints
6 183 Spergon Wynn QB Texas State Cleveland Browns
6 199 Tom Brady QB Michigan New England Patriots
6 202 Todd Husak QB Stanford Washington Redskins
7 212 Tim Rattay QB Louisiana Tech San Francisco 49ers
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame Denver Broncos
7 234 Joe Hamilton QB Georgia Tech Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Chad Pennington was the only QB you probably ever heard of from that group because he sucked for the Jets for a few years (other than a few of you who remember Jarious Jackson because he was a Bronco).

This means statistically, your chances of Brock Osweiler ever amounting to anything are roughly about 2%. That doesn't mean he CAN'T make it.

Just that the chances he's a total BUST in waiting are a LOT greater than the chances he's the next Tom Brady. :coffee:

I'm also aware that Tony Romo was undrafted for the Cowboys and spent 3 years on the bench before winning the starting job. I am not a fan of Tony Romo. I think he sucks, and I don't think many Cowboys fans are too happy with him either after this season. Your mileage may vary.

Dreadnought
01-24-2013, 12:52 PM
Now c'mon Cugel, to say Marc Bulger and Chad Pennington "sucked" is to debase the value of the word entirely and overstates your case dramatically. Pennington and Bulger were very solid QB's who had their careers shortened by injury. Vince Young sucked. JaMarcus Russell sucked. Joey Harrington sucked. J.P. Losman sucked. Pennington and Bulger are nowhere near those guys in awfulness, but both were at times excellent QB's.

NightTerror218
01-24-2013, 12:59 PM
IMO Oz would be one of the top QBs in this years draft. Geno Smith and Barkely would be in fight with him for first 3 QBs drafted.

Cugel
01-24-2013, 01:02 PM
Now c'mon Cugel, to say Marc Bulger and Chad Pennington "sucked" is to debase the value of the word entirely and overstates your case dramatically. Pennington and Bulger were very solid QB's who had their careers shortened by injury. Vince Young sucked. JaMarcus Russell sucked. Joey Harrington sucked. J.P. Losman sucked. Pennington and Bulger are nowhere near those guys in awfulness, but both were at times excellent QB's.

Seriously, you're pimping for Marc Bulger? :laugh: He had a couple of good years for the Rams. Is that the standard now?

As for Chad Pennington, he was a 1st rounder so he doesn't count anyway.

I'd say he was a big disappointment. The Jets fans thought he was going to be their franchise QB. He wasn't.

You can argue that he didn't "suck" in the same way that some people still defend Kyle Orton. If you have extremely limited expectations, then sure, Chad Pennington was OK for a few years. As the first QB taken in the first round of the 2000 draft he wasn't great.

And, once again, he was drafted a LOT higher than Osweiler (39 picks later), so he doesn't count.

If that's your expectation for Brock Osweiler, then I would say, lets not waste time. Let's just move on to the next QB of the future. :coffee:

MY STATISTICS STAND UNCORRECTED. Brock Osweiler stands about a 2% chance of being any good. :coffee:

Does that prove he WON'T be any good? No. Despite the million to one odds, somebody wins the lotto once in a while. Just not you.

Cugel
01-24-2013, 01:13 PM
IMO Oz would be one of the top QBs in this years draft. Geno Smith and Barkely would be in fight with him for first 3 QBs drafted.

That is presuming a lot:

ONE that Osweiler returned and had a good season. That doesn't always happen (Matt Barkley is exhibit A). If he had a disappointing season his draft stock could plummet to the later rounds.

TWO: This years' QB class is not a very good one. There is probably NO QB worthy of a 1st round pick (according to the draft experts).

Is this a certainty? No. Russell Wilson was a 3rd rounder, so stuff can happen.

BUT, I'm simply going by STATISTICS when predicting the future. That's all we have are the ODDS something will happen.

The best we can say about Brock Osweiler is that he was VERY YOUNG when drafted. The Broncos clearly wanted a very young player to develop for a few years while Peyton Manning is still here.

If Manning plays for another 3 or 4 years (easily possible), then Osweiler would play out his contract and be an unrestricted FA before he'd ever get a chance to start in Denver.

Mostly likely, he would be GONE before then via FA, because he would want a chance to play in the NFL, and Manning didn't miss a snap this season due to injury (and I'm not sure he's missed any outside his neck injury missed season).

So, Osweiler's chances of ever playing for the Broncos are not red hot. :coffee:

(Can you see John Elway telling Peyton Manning "sorry Peyton, but we don't want you back for your final season! We're going with Brock Osweiler!") Me neither. :coffee:

Dreadnought
01-24-2013, 01:16 PM
You left off a few other guys who had some productive years. No world beaters but not all useless stiffs, either.

2002 - 4th, David Garrard
2003 - Tony Romo - undrafted
2005 - 7th, Ryan Fitzpatrick


In short, the 2% figure you stated doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

I would also say that 2011 QB class is looking pretty shaky itself, proof that high draft status does not always equate NFL success.

NightTerror218
01-24-2013, 01:22 PM
That is presuming a lot:

ONE that Osweiler returned and had a good season. That doesn't always happen (Matt Barkley is exhibit A). If he had a disappointing season his draft stock could plummet to the later rounds.

TWO: This years' QB class is not a very good one. There is probably NO QB worthy of a 1st round pick (according to the draft experts).

Is this a certainty? No. Russell Wilson was a 3rd rounder, so stuff can happen.

BUT, I'm simply going by STATISTICS when predicting the future. That's all we have are the ODDS something will happen.

The best we can say about Brock Osweiler is that he was VERY YOUNG when drafted. The Broncos clearly wanted a very young player to develop for a few years while Peyton Manning is still here.

If Manning plays for another 3 or 4 years (easily possible), then Osweiler would play out his contract and be an unrestricted FA before he'd ever get a chance to start in Denver.

Mostly likely, he would be GONE before then via FA, because he would want a chance to play in the NFL, and Manning didn't miss a snap this season due to injury (and I'm not sure he's missed any outside his neck injury missed season).

So, Osweiler's chances of ever playing for the Broncos are not red hot. :coffee:

(Can you see John Elway telling Peyton Manning "sorry Peyton, but we don't want you back for your final season! We're going with Brock Osweiler!") Me neither. :coffee:

I cant never agree with your extreme views. No expert things a QB is a 1st round pick this year is bull. There are no strong QBs for #1 overall pick or top 10 but several are graded as first round talent. Smith and Barkley are rated as mid-later 1st round talent right now, just by grades. And QBs are always drafted higher then normal grades because of their position and need.

But Oz had more to gain returning to college then barkley did. Oz was only a starter for 1 year, barkley was for several years. Oz could have developed more in college IMO. But sitting behind manning and working with NFL coaches could be even better.

Cugel
01-24-2013, 01:51 PM
You left off a few other guys who had some productive years. No world beaters but not all useless stiffs, either.

2002 - 4th, David Garrard
2003 - Tony Romo - undrafted
2005 - 7th, Ryan Fitzpatrick


In short, the 2% figure you stated doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

I would also say that 2011 QB class is looking pretty shaky itself, proof that high draft status does not always equate NFL success.

These are all futile arguments you are making.

First, I mentioned Tony Romo, and I mentioned that you might want to include him. Probably lots of Dallas fans would love to see Denver trade Brock Osweiler for Tony Romo even up right about now! I wouldn't take that trade, would you? That doesn't affect the odds much does it? Perhaps 3% instead of 2%? Big deal! :coffee:

Second, if you want to include every marginally decent QB like David Gerrard, then I give up!

If we're talking about actually GOOD, then David Gerrard doesn't count!

Would ANY Broncos fan be satisfied if we went from the Peyton Manning era to the David Gerrard II era?

I rest my case! :coffee:

If we're throwing in every possibly mediocre, half-baked QB who has a couple of years where he doesn't totally suck, then there are LOTS more candidates. Kyle Orton is one for instance.

But that is NOT a standard that will satisfy ANY serious Broncos fan!

As for the "1st rounders can suck too" argument, that's a total straw man.

It is completely TRUE that not all first rounders are any good. But, the reverse is NOT true -- that it's equally likely to find a franchise QB in the 2nd or later round!

Yes, you can make a mistake and draft Mark Sanchez, or even JaWalrus Russell in the first round. But, just look where almost all the really good QBs were drafted -- first 15 picks usually.

It takes simply incredible luck to get a Drew Brees with the first pick in the 2nd round (still basically a 1st round pick), let alone Tom Brady in the 6th! And the statistics bear that out.

My 2% claim is still unchallenged.

Dreadnought
01-24-2013, 02:46 PM
Looks to me more like you're perhaps confusing causation and correlation. Guys drafted earlier will generally get a fairer shot than guys drafted later. Bureaucratic organizations are like that; they need to justify their decision making after the fact and will often put their proverbial thumbs on the scales to rig "competition" to make sure the desired outcome occurs to make the decision makers look smart. See also Josh McDaniels. That's why seeing Russell Wilson actually win the starting job says so much positive about the Seahawks organization - most clubs would have privately determined him as the loser ahead of time and then announced that Flynn won the job fair and square. I believe actual open and fair competitions in an NFL training camp are as rare as leftovers on Slim's dinner plate.

Guys drafted by a previous regime may get no shot whatsoever, as the new regime isn't at all invested in proving how smart they are and how penetrating is their football acumen.

This is all an art, not a science, and then you have to factor in human arrogance, ass covering, and folly. Guys can also be drafted in the 4th (Sonny Jurgensen), 9th (Johnny Unitas) and 17th (?!) rounds (Bart Starr) and yet still end up in the HOF.

capt. Jack
01-24-2013, 03:34 PM
He might a good QB someday? Hopefully!

TXBRONC
01-24-2013, 03:46 PM
These are all futile arguments you are making.

First, I mentioned Tony Romo, and I mentioned that you might want to include him. Probably lots of Dallas fans would love to see Denver trade Brock Osweiler for Tony Romo even up right about now! I wouldn't take that trade, would you? That doesn't affect the odds much does it? Perhaps 3% instead of 2%? Big deal! :coffee:

Second, if you want to include every marginally decent QB like David Gerrard, then I give up!

If we're talking about actually GOOD, then David Gerrard doesn't count!

Would ANY Broncos fan be satisfied if we went from the Peyton Manning era to the David Gerrard II era?

I rest my case! :coffee:

If we're throwing in every possibly mediocre, half-baked QB who has a couple of years where he doesn't totally suck, then there are LOTS more candidates. Kyle Orton is one for instance.

But that is NOT a standard that will satisfy ANY serious Broncos fan!

As for the "1st rounders can suck too" argument, that's a total straw man.

It is completely TRUE that not all first rounders are any good. But, the reverse is NOT true -- that it's equally likely to find a franchise QB in the 2nd or later round!

Yes, you can make a mistake and draft Mark Sanchez, or even JaWalrus Russell in the first round. But, just look where almost all the really good QBs were drafted -- first 15 picks usually.

It takes simply incredible luck to get a Drew Brees with the first pick in the 2nd round (still basically a 1st round pick), let alone Tom Brady in the 6th! And the statistics bear that out.

My 2% claim is still unchallenged.

It doesn't take a law degree figure out that making it in the NFL is difficult and it doesn't matter what round it is.

So what you're doing is complaining about the painfully obvious.

You want to write him off go ahead I'll wait.

Btw Kaepernick was what a 2nd round pick?

TXBRONC
01-24-2013, 03:49 PM
I think he means the skill level is close to Sanchez. He believe Os isn't very good, and is "scared" that Elway is just too committed to the 2nd round pick to ever consider another option if there needs to be one. Zam wants to weed Os out now, and believes that Elway is somehow married to Os's success.

If he is talking about skill set then he's all wet.

Ravage!!!
01-24-2013, 05:18 PM
If he is talking about skill set then he's all wet.

Zam? Noooooo way

wayninja
01-24-2013, 05:43 PM
If he is talking about skill set then he's all wet.

Eww... how'd you determine that?

TXBRONC
01-24-2013, 05:45 PM
Eww... how'd you determine that?

With my super ninja powers of preception.

wayninja
01-24-2013, 05:46 PM
With my super ninja powers of preception.

Well, I hoped you used protection.

Ravage!!!
01-24-2013, 05:53 PM
I don't think its exactly a BOLD prediction to guess that the odds of Brock's "success"...and certainlly being the "franchise QB"... are slim. 1st Round picks have a higher percentage of success, but even the HIGHEST picks at QB have a very low percentage of high success.

However, before we say "Brock was only a 2nd rounder, thus the odds of him succeeding are low"..... we need to consider that Brock WOULD have been a 1st round selection (and probably one of the top in this year's draft) had he stayed an extra year. Now we could ask, what was better for him, staying at ASU, or sitting behind Manning for this season and then having already a year of experience learning when going into THIS offseason. That could obviously be debated back and forth. So what are the percentages of 1st round picks making it in the NFL? Isn't that the "talent level" we are discussing?

But either way, it was a 2nd round pick taken as a "Plan B" option to Manning's health. The odds of ANY QB taken, whether that's first overall or in the 2nd round, are slim. That wasn't really the point of the draft, and it doesn't matter where he was selected 3 years down the road.

Chef Zambini
01-25-2013, 01:22 AM
I very much enjoyed and appreciated the dialogue generated between cugel and dread over the last 2 pages.
Its great that two posters with different points of view can act like adults when expressing their opinions.
no hostility, no harassment
no false misrepresentation of what the other posted. just a civilized expression of opinion.
no namecalling, no false accusations.
so very mature and civilized, how refreshing !

Chef Zambini
01-25-2013, 01:34 AM
I have not made ANY pre-determined assesment of brocks chances of success.
(regardless of what rav, mo and silk have ping=ponged about and then tried to attach to me)
what I have said repeatedly, is I cant understand how he has earned an exclusive right to the throne, WITHOUT a legitimate rival over the next 3 years.
...and with ZERO tangeable evidence I have implied that JFE will resist bringing in that RIVAL, because to do so would be an admission that perhaps the use of our second pick overall for brock was ill conceived.
I dont mind brock
I dont mind that we used a #2 pick for him,
but I am very concerned that JFEs defensive posture regarding the selection will compell him to defend it by not bringing in anyone else !

raderhader68
01-25-2013, 03:49 AM
Yea it does, handin the keys over to bubby brister

Joker56
01-25-2013, 08:53 AM
ok ,you can all argue about Brock and other qbacks....
while i am still.... fuming .... how the H.E>LL did we lose that GAME ?

artie_dale
01-25-2013, 09:07 AM
ok ,you can all argue about Brock and other qbacks....
while i am still.... fuming .... how the H.E>LL did we lose that GAME ?

The defense let us all down. Throughout the season, John Fox put games in the defense's hands and they came through by staying disciplined and putting pressure on the QB causing turnovers. Two weeks ago, they allowed more 50+ yd passes than any other time all year. You'd figure that after the first one, they'd be sure to not allow it to happen again. And in the very end, when it mattered most, they thought the game was in the bag (Rahim Moore said it himself) and failed to make a play on a 70 yd DUCK! That ball should have at least been knocked down or intercepted.

With the horrible officiating, with John Fox being a little more conservative than I personally like, I have to give most of the failure to the defense and maybe even Del Rio (even though I believe he was the biggest difference maker on turning the defense into what it was all season).

Bounce back and play better on both sides of the ball is all I can ask for... that and invest in a full body suit that keeps Peyton warm.

TXBRONC
01-25-2013, 09:34 AM
I very much enjoyed and appreciated the dialogue generated between cugel and dread over the last 2 pages.
Its great that two posters with different points of view can act like adults when expressing their opinions.
no hostility, no harassment
no false misrepresentation of what the other posted. just a civilized expression of opinion.
no namecalling, no false accusations.
so very mature and civilized, how refreshing !

No one has misrepresented anything you've said. When you've been called on the carpet for things you've said your m.o. is to claim you've been misrepresnted and your words have been twisted and so forth. Considering you have not offered up further explaination lends to them being right in their understanding of your posts.

Jaded
01-25-2013, 09:43 AM
I very much enjoyed and appreciated the dialogue generated between cugel and dread over the last 2 pages.
Its great that two posters with different points of view can act like adults when expressing their opinions.
no hostility, no harassment
no false misrepresentation of what the other posted. just a civilized expression of opinion.
no namecalling, no false accusations.
so very mature and civilized, how refreshing !

Just to ensure that I don't falsely misrepresent what you've posted; you're throwing yourself a pity party because the Broncos have seemingly committed to a player that you don't like and are exceedingly concerned that this means that they won't even consider players that you do like in the near future?.......

Chef Zambini
01-25-2013, 10:02 AM
Just to ensure that I don't falsely misrepresent what you've posted; you're throwing yourself a pity party because the Broncos have seemingly committed to a player that you don't like and are exceedingly concerned that this means that they won't even consider players that you do like in the near future?.......

you are correct,it would be a MISREPRESENTATION!
NEVER did i say I dislike brock, NEVER !
not in ANY thread ANYWHERE in this forum.
I have NO specific candidate in mind as an alternative, NONE !
for perhaps the TWENTIETH TIME in this thread, let me once again state my concern.
MY PROBLEM IS not WITH BROCK. MY PROBLEM IS WITH THE EXCLUSIVE NATURE OF HIS ROLE AS HEIR APPARANT.
reaD MY SIGNATURE'

Chef Zambini
01-25-2013, 10:06 AM
No one has misrepresented anything you've said. When you've been called on the carpet for things you've said your m.o. is to claim you've been misrepresnted and your words have been twisted and so forth. Considering you have not offered up further explaination lends to them being right in their understanding of your posts.oh really?
I was accused of calling elway lazy and incompetent.
that was not a misrepresentation?
you are a farce.
not worthy of my response or rebuttle. I see that intelligent people do read and respond to these threads, i will focus my responses to those worthy of dialogue. have a nice day.

TXBRONC
01-25-2013, 10:41 AM
I have not made ANY pre-determined assesment of brocks chances of success.
(regardless of what rav, mo and silk have ping=ponged about and then tried to attach to me)
what I have said repeatedly, is I cant understand how he has earned an exclusive right to the throne, WITHOUT a legitimate rival over the next 3 years.
...and with ZERO tangeable evidence I have implied that JFE will resist bringing in that RIVAL, because to do so would be an admission that perhaps the use of our second pick overall for brock was ill conceived.
I dont mind brock
I dont mind that we used a #2 pick for him,
but I am very concerned that JFEs defensive posture regarding the selection will compell him to defend it by not bringing in anyone else !

Really you don't mind that Elway used a 2nd round pick on Osweiler? That is definitely a shift from about nine months ago. Back then you said Elway was fixated on getting Osweiler. That is criticizing the use of a 2nd round pick on Osweiler and it isn't something you mentioned just once or twice you've said it several times in months following the draft.

In this very post that I'm responding to right appears to contridictory. On the one hand you've just complained that Elway wont bring a rival over the next three years of course none of us including you what will over the next three years. On the other hand you don't mind that Elway spent a 2nd round pick on him and then you're saying he's defensive which is ridiculous.

What Elway and Fox are doing with Osweiler has been done many times by other teams. Andy Dalton was a 2nd round pick two years ago for two reasons. First if Palmer followed through with his threat to retire which he did, then Datlon would step right in as the starter. If Palmer had not retired Dalton would been the back up and the Bengals would have used the interim to groom him to eventually replace Palmer. They had no intention in bringing in another quarterback to as you rival Dalton. So even though you've harped on it what's being done with Osweiler it is not out of the norm.

TXBRONC
01-25-2013, 10:54 AM
oh really?
I was accused of calling elway lazy and incompetent.
that was not a misrepresentation?
you are a farce.
not worthy of my response or rebuttle. I see that intelligent people do read and respond to these threads, i will focus my responses to those worthy of dialogue. have a nice day.

No it's not misreprenstation. You're the one that for months on end harped on Elway's fixation with Osweiler. You're the one that keeps Elway was influenced to take Osweiler because he was his son's roommate. Both those thing infer incompetence and laziness. In other words you don't have use the incompetence and lazy to mean the same thing. I can't help that you're incapable of actually owning up to your words.

Yep you're right we are done, because every time you called out on your incessent harping of the ridiculous the say you claim misrepresnetation and then you throw a pitty party for yourself.

Chef Zambini
01-25-2013, 04:03 PM
I saved you some cake.

BroncoJoe
01-25-2013, 04:09 PM
I saved you some cake.

Good. Shove it into your face.

Jaded
01-25-2013, 04:21 PM
you are correct,it would be a MISREPRESENTATION!
NEVER did i say I dislike brock, NEVER !
not in ANY thread ANYWHERE in this forum.
I have NO specific candidate in mind as an alternative, NONE !
for perhaps the TWENTIETH TIME in this thread, let me once again state my concern.
MY PROBLEM IS not WITH BROCK. MY PROBLEM IS WITH THE EXCLUSIVE NATURE OF HIS ROLE AS HEIR APPARANT.
reaD MY SIGNATURE'


Ok, so you don't like Osweiler as the heir apparent and are afraid that this means the Broncos will not draft a QB that you do like as the heir apparent?

I never suggested it was anything personal, just that you're bent because the Broncos have chosen a QBotF that you don't like.......on a not personal level.

It's clear to everyone that you do not like Brock Osweiler.......on a not personal level.

Your attempts to deny that is the frustrating part. Just say it; say "I don't like Brock Osweiler.......on a non-personal level".

Seriously, just say it. It will be therapeutic.......on a non-personal level.......

Chef Zambini
01-25-2013, 06:24 PM
aqgain for the thirtieth time. I have no problem with os, the heir apparent as long as he has a legitimate rival along the way! I want him to earn it, win it, not have it handed to him like SANCHEZ had his stARTING ROLE HANDED TO HIM !
I dont have a strong opinion about OS one way or the other. i DO have a strong opinion about a guy with his limited experienceassending to the throne unapposed.
why is this so difficult for some of you to understand?
if it wasnt os, if it was cousins or lets pretend we got wilson, I would still want the guy to earn the job on the field.
I dont think os has done that and i dont think JFE is going to put up anyLEGITIMATE competition for os either.

Jaded
01-25-2013, 08:05 PM
Hey I'm all for drafting QB's till the cows come home but I doubt NFL teams will start carrying more than 3 QB's any time soon.......

broncohead
01-25-2013, 08:54 PM
Wouldn't mind a late round or udfa as PS/3rd string.

Jaded
01-26-2013, 01:42 AM
Wouldn't mind a late round or udfa as PS/3rd string.

Brad Sorenson, Mike Hermann, Sean Renfree and Dayne Crist.......

TXBRONC
01-26-2013, 08:12 AM
Like Sanchez's situation my ass. Sanchez was thrown into the starting from the get go. Is that happening with Osweiler? No he hasn't so to compare it to Sanchez's is ridiculous.

IIRC the same guy who keeps harping who wrongly keeps comparing Osweiler's situation to that of Sanchez is the same guy who wanted Denver to draft Kellen Moore. So he's has no problem the Osweiler pick? Me thinks not.

Chef Zambini
01-26-2013, 12:31 PM
you are right, Ilike kellen moore, and I hope he gets an opportunity to play on gameday, someday.
the knock on kellen is he is too SMALL. the same knock on russel wilson.
yes I compared brock to sanchez,
tyhe comparison beoing ONLY that he was guaranteed the starting job and never really had to compete for it, that was my comparison.

I also said his cicumstances are most similar to aaron rogers, but just ignore that for the sake of your arguement.

MOtorboat
01-26-2013, 12:53 PM
you are right, Ilike kellen moore, and I hope he gets an opportunity to play on gameday, someday.
the knock on kellen is he is too SMALL. the same knock on russel wilson.
yes I compared brock to sanchez,
tyhe comparison beoing ONLY that he was guaranteed the starting job and never really had to compete for it, that was my comparison.

I also said his cicumstances are most similar to aaron rogers, but just ignore that for the sake of your arguement.

When did Osweiler get the starting job?

Northman
01-26-2013, 01:11 PM
aqgain for the thirtieth time. I have no problem with os, the heir apparent as long as he has a legitimate rival along the way! I want him to earn it, win it, not have it handed to him like SANCHEZ had his stARTING ROLE HANDED TO HIM !
I dont have a strong opinion about OS one way or the other. i DO have a strong opinion about a guy with his limited experienceassending to the throne unapposed.
why is this so difficult for some of you to understand?
if it wasnt os, if it was cousins or lets pretend we got wilson, I would still want the guy to earn the job on the field.
I dont think os has done that and i dont think JFE is going to put up anyLEGITIMATE competition for os either.


You make no sense as usual here.

Who says he wont have competition? Furthermore, what is deemed "competition" too you Zam? Flynn had very little starts under his belt and yet was paid a lot of money to which he lost the starting job to Wilson. Who would it be in your opinion considered competition after Manning retires?

As too your last sentence that is just ignorant on so many levels. You dont know what Elway has in store after Manning retires. Sure, Oz was drafted to learn and take over because he was drafted in the 2nd round like he was supposed too but again it doesnt mean that he wont have competition going into the offseason, practice, and pre-season.

Andrew Luck was drafted to be a starter and thus allowed to prove himself with the starters. He still had backup QB's who had to try and win their own jobs or roles on the team so does that mean that Luck didnt have any competition? RGIII was handed the starting job despite Cousins having a good preseason.

If your hangup is on this past year who in their right mind is going to start ANY QB over Peyton Manning? Even if Denver had RGIII, Andrew Luck, and Russell Wilson guess who would be starting? Yep. Manning.

Not sure what your hangup is here. So again i ask, what competition are you expecting here? A 1st round draft pick? A veteran? What?

Northman
01-26-2013, 01:12 PM
yes I compared brock to sanchez,
tyhe comparison beoing ONLY that he was guaranteed the starting job and never really had to compete for it, that was my comparison.



WHAT??!!!!!!!!!

When did this happen? LMAO

Chef Zambini
01-26-2013, 01:29 PM
let me say this;
if PFM, BO and HAINE are the broncos in camp next summer, BO is not being exposed to a real rival. if the broncos bring in a 4th QB as all of you suggest and that guy cant replace HAINE, then I again declare that BO is not being compared against a legitimate rival.
so glads you mentioned FLYNN, because what happened with him and RUSSELL is exACTLY WHAT SHOULD HAPEN WITH BROCK. A LEGITIMATE RIVAL, AND WILSON ENDED UP WINNING THE JOB BECAUSE HE WAS BETTER regardless of $$$
regardless of draft position !

MOtorboat
01-26-2013, 01:33 PM
let me say this;
if PFM, BO and HAINE are the broncos in camp next summer, BO is not being exposed to a real rival. if the broncos bring in a 4th QB as all of you suggest and that guy cant replace HAINE, then I again declare that BO is not being compared against a legitimate rival.
so glads you mentioned FLYNN, because what happened with him and RUSSELL is exACTLY WHAT SHOULD HAPEN WITH BROCK. A LEGITIMATE RIVAL, AND WILSON ENDED UP WINNING THE JOB BECAUSE HE WAS BETTER regardless of $$$
regardless of draft position !

So, just so we're clear, you want Denver to spend $60 million on a third string quarterback?

Chef Zambini
01-26-2013, 01:35 PM
When did Osweiler get the starting job?when he was drafted! when JFE defended his selection as saying, 'sometimes you have to SACRIFICE the present for the future"
'brock is our future"
these are JFEs words, dispute them?
think elway is lying?
think the pick was wasted based on PFEs window of opportunity?
do you think JFE will or wont bring in a legitimate rival?
here is your can of paint lets see where you end up!

MOtorboat
01-26-2013, 01:36 PM
when he was drafted! when JFE defended his selection as saying, 'sometimes you have to SACRIFICE the present for the future"
'brock is our future"
these are JFEs words, dispute them?
think elway is lying?
think the pick was wasted based on PFEs window of opportunity?
do you think JFE will or wont bring in a legitimate rival?
here is your can of paint lets see where you end up!

When has Brock Osweiler started a game for the Denver Broncos?

Northman
01-26-2013, 01:39 PM
let me say this;
if PFM, BO and HAINE are the broncos in camp next summer, BO is not being exposed to a real rival.


Im cutting you off here because its irrelevant to the current situation that Denver is in. As long as Peyton Manning is in the league and in Denver Oz wont need any competition because his duty as of now is to sit and learn from the best.

As to the rest of your nonsense when you draft a QB in the first couple of rounds your doing that because THAT is the guy that your hoping is going to lead your team in the future. Indy didnt draft Andrew Luck so that they can draft another first round QB next year to "compete" with him. Russell Wilson is not the norm when it comes to late round QB's making something of themselves.

The problem with you Zam is that you've already written Brock off. You claim you dont have an opinion on it one way or another but i say your full of shit. You've had an axe to grind with him from day one so even if by some wild miracle Denver brought in Flynn, Kirk Cousins, Nick Foles, or whoever to compete with Brock and if Brock won the job you would still be crying that the competition wasnt there.

Sorry, your so full of shit its painful to watch this kind of sillyness be spewed on this forum. Its not even an opinion by you because you dont have the first clue as too why a QB is drafted in the first place.

Northman
01-26-2013, 01:39 PM
When has Brock Osweiler started a game for the Denver Broncos?

He wont answer. He continually dodges questions and backtracks on his statements all the time.

Chef Zambini
01-26-2013, 01:41 PM
So, just so we're clear, you want Denver to spend $60 million on a third string quarterback?oh yet another misrepresentation of what I posted, classic ! typicall BOR marionette behavior!
of course thats exactly what I said and suggested !mo you are so cliche in your responses to any and all of my posts, pathetic.

Jaded
01-26-2013, 01:43 PM
I'd love it if the Broncos drafted Landry Jones to compete with Osweiler for the QBotF but I doubt many (if any) agree, including the entire Denver Broncos FO.......

MOtorboat
01-26-2013, 01:43 PM
oh yet another misrepresentation of what I posted, classic ! typicall BOR marionette behavior!
of course thats exactly what I said and suggested !mo you are so cliche in your responses to any and all of my posts, pathetic.

I didn't misrepresent anything. You said:


you are right, Ilike kellen moore, and I hope he gets an opportunity to play on gameday, someday.
the knock on kellen is he is too SMALL. the same knock on russel wilson.
yes I compared brock to sanchez,
tyhe comparison beoing ONLY that he was guaranteed the starting job and never really had to compete for it, that was my comparison.

I also said his cicumstances are most similar to aaron rogers, but just ignore that for the sake of your arguement.

And I want to know when Brock Osweiler started a game for the Broncos?

That's an essential question in order to make the above comparison between Mark Sanchez and Brock Osweiler.

Northman
01-26-2013, 01:44 PM
Jones is very overrated. And thats just at the college level.

silkamilkamonico
01-26-2013, 01:45 PM
Chef also said denver keeping hanie meant brock couldnt beat him out, even though brock beat him out abd was the backup qb the entire season.

Jaded
01-26-2013, 01:48 PM
Jones is very overrated. And thats just at the college level.

Say that's even remotely true, what place does logic have in this discussion?.......

Northman
01-26-2013, 01:51 PM
Say that's even remotely true, what place does logic have in this discussion?.......

Well, you did say you wanted him to be drafted to compete which is moronic. My opinion of course. The expectations for Brock as a 2nd rounder were greater than Wilson so to "write" Oz off without even seeing what he can do is stupid beyond all belief. If Brock had been a 3rd round or later draft pick i might be inclined to agree with you but thats not the case here.

MOtorboat
01-26-2013, 01:51 PM
I think Jones is one of the better quarterbacks in this draft.

Jaded
01-26-2013, 01:55 PM
I think Jones is one of the better quarterbacks in this draft.

Agreed, which admittedly, isn't saying much. Even if he's not I don't think he's overrated at this point, as most have him 2nd-4th round. Which is a steal, imo.......

Jaded
01-26-2013, 01:57 PM
Well, you did say you wanted him to be drafted to compete which is moronic. My opinion of course. The expectations for Brock as a 2nd rounder were greater than Wilson so to "write" Oz off without even seeing what he can do is stupid beyond all belief. If Brock had been a 3rd round or later draft pick i might be inclined to agree with you but thats not the case here.

No argument there, just that Jones is overrated.......

Northman
01-26-2013, 01:57 PM
I think Jones is one of the better quarterbacks in this draft.

Thats only because the talent pool is very weak compared to last year. Jones is very inconsistent passing and that was on a very good Sooner team.

MOtorboat
01-26-2013, 01:59 PM
Thats only because the talent pool is very weak compared to last year. Jones is very inconsistent passing and that was on a very good Sooner team.

Fair enough. I'd take him, for sure, over Glennan and Barkley. Probably take him over Wilson too.

Northman
01-26-2013, 02:07 PM
Fair enough. I'd take him, for sure, over Glennan and Barkley. Probably take him over Wilson too.

At this point Denver doesnt need to draft another QB. If they had nobody than maybe i could see them drafting Barkley or Jones but its not needed. If they want to take a guy in the later rounds so be it but spending another high pick on a QB would be moronic considering we havent even seen the current guy play yet.

MOtorboat
01-26-2013, 02:09 PM
At this point Denver doesnt need to draft another QB. If they had nobody than maybe i could see them drafting Barkley or Jones but its not needed. If they want to take a guy in the later rounds so be it but spending another high pick on a QB would be moronic considering we havent even seen the current guy play yet.

True. Just offering up my opinion on Jones because he was mentioned.

Jaded
01-26-2013, 02:17 PM
At this point Denver doesnt need to draft another QB. If they had nobody than maybe i could see them drafting Barkley or Jones but its not needed. If they want to take a guy in the later rounds so be it but spending another high pick on a QB would be moronic considering we havent even seen the current guy play yet.

But who is gonna compete with Osweiler for 2nd string? You can't just hide Osweiler.......

MOtorboat
01-26-2013, 02:25 PM
But who is gonna compete with Osweiler for 2nd string? You can't just hide Osweiler.......

I suggest we sign Alex Smith to a $40 million contract to be third string.

Ravage!!!
01-26-2013, 02:25 PM
y
tyhe comparison beoing ONLY that he was guaranteed the starting job and never really had to compete for it, that was my comparison.



As silk pointed out, you complained that we signed Hanie because it showed that Os wasn't even good enough to back Manning up, despite being a 2nd round pick, while other rookie QBs were starting. This tied in with your "Elway was so obsessed with drafting Os.." rant. Then Os obviously beat out Hanie, but now you are complaining that Os will be "handed" the starting job (possibly 3 years down the road) based purely on the theory that we probably won't draft another QB (now) to compete with him for the NUMBER TWO (#2) spot.

Then you want to compare Os to Sanchez because Sanchez was "given" the starting job for the Jets despite the fact that Osweiler hasn't started a single game. I guess, going by that logic we could say that Os is the same as Andrew Luck and RGIII...getting the job without competition.

Much like Matt Ryan, Blain Gabbert, Joe Flacco, Cam Newton, Brandon Weeden, Matt Stafford, Mike Vick, Sam Bradford, Andy Dalton, and Drew Brees were.

However, it would seem that Os sitting a year or so would have him compared to guys like Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and Matt Shaub.

So please clarify for us, who is it that you think he should be compared to and why? Handed the job with no competition for the ...back-up... position? :confused:

TXBRONC
01-26-2013, 04:15 PM
you are right, Ilike kellen moore, and I hope he gets an opportunity to play on gameday, someday.
the knock on kellen is he is too SMALL. the same knock on russel wilson.
yes I compared brock to sanchez,
tyhe comparison beoing ONLY that he was guaranteed the starting job and never really had to compete for it, that was my comparison.

I also said his cicumstances are most similar to aaron rogers, but just ignore that for the sake of your arguement.

Osweiler hasn't been guaranteed anything and when did supplant Manning as the starter?

You sure do whine an awful a lot. I don't give a crap if brought up Rodger or not. Osweiler's situation can't be like both Sanchez's and Rodger's because their situations are polar opposites. You trying hold two opposing arguments at the same freaking time why? So that you cry about how you're victim of being misrepresnted? All that is a crutch.

Put your money where Elway quaranteed he is the starter upon Manning's retirement? Fact is he hasn't.

What is with this garbage about hiding Osweiler. That is absolutetly stupid. Being the number 2 quarterback isn't anywhere near close to being hid because as Manning's primary back up quarterback Osweiler is always just one play away from having to go onto the field.

It's pretty damned hypocritcal of you to take one little phrase of Elway's to whine about Osweiler beign heir apparrent yet you flat out ignore what Elway said about who sets the depth chart. At Fox's hiring Elway made it clear that Fox sets the depth chart. He gets decides who sits and who plays. So if Fox really was trying to hide Osweiler it doesn't take a lot smarts to figure out that he be the number 3 rather than the number 2 quarterback.

TXBRONC
01-26-2013, 05:11 PM
As silk pointed out, you complained that we signed Hanie because it showed that Os wasn't even good enough to back Manning up, despite being a 2nd round pick, while other rookie QBs were starting. This tied in with your "Elway was so obsessed with drafting Os.." rant. Then Os obviously beat out Hanie, but now you are complaining that Os will be "handed" the starting job (possibly 3 years down the road) based purely on the theory that we probably won't draft another QB (now) to compete with him for the NUMBER TWO (#2) spot.

Then you want to compare Os to Sanchez because Sanchez was "given" the starting job for the Jets despite the fact that Osweiler hasn't started a single game. I guess, going by that logic we could say that Os is the same as Andrew Luck and RGIII...getting the job without competition.

Much like Matt Ryan, Blain Gabbert, Joe Flacco, Cam Newton, Brandon Weeden, Matt Stafford, Mike Vick, Sam Bradford, Andy Dalton, and Drew Brees were.

However, it would seem that Os sitting a year or so would have him compared to guys like Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and Matt Shaub.

So please clarify for us, who is it that you think he should be compared to and why? Handed the job with no competition for the ...back-up... position? :confused:

I get a kick out his line about how Elway is trying hide Osweiler on the bench. It's not like Osweiler being the number two quarterback is only one play away from having go into a game. Lets also ignore the fact it's Fox who gets to set the depth chart.

sneakers
01-26-2013, 07:34 PM
Tommmy Maddox

VonMiller58
01-26-2013, 07:49 PM
I think Caleb Hanie is an absolute waste of space. I'd rather draft a QB 6th or 7th rd and have him sit there and compete with Brock, either that or bring back Adam Weber for a bag of footballs.

Chef Zambini
01-27-2013, 02:07 AM
At this point Denver doesnt need to draft another QB. If they had nobody than maybe i could see them drafting Barkley or Jones but its not needed. If they want to take a guy in the later rounds so be it but spending another high pick on a QB would be moronic considering we havent even seen the current guy play yet.thank you north man for at least being forthcoming with your belier=f that os is indeedd our future QB and bringing in another QB would be unproductive, at best.
at least you have a pair and are willing to express your opinioin on Os as the unquestioned and "un-rivaled' heir apparent.

Chef Zambini
01-27-2013, 02:13 AM
Osweiler hasn't been guaranteed anything and when did supplant Manning as the starter?

You sure do whine an awful a lot. I don't give a crap if brought up Rodger or not. Osweiler's situation can't be like both Sanchez's and Rodger's because their situations are polar opposites. You trying hold two opposing arguments at the same freaking time why? So that you cry about how you're victim of being misrepresnted? All that is a crutch.

Put your money where Elway quaranteed he is the starter upon Manning's retirement? Fact is he hasn't.

What is with this garbage about hiding Osweiler. That is absolutetly stupid. Being the number 2 quarterback isn't anywhere near close to being hid because as Manning's primary back up quarterback Osweiler is always just one play away from having to go onto the field.

It's pretty damned hypocritcal of you to take one little phrase of Elway's to whine about Osweiler beign heir apparrent yet you flat out ignore what Elway said about who sets the depth chart. At Fox's hiring Elway made it clear that Fox sets the depth chart. He gets decides who sits and who plays. So if Fox really was trying to hide Osweiler it doesn't take a lot smarts to figure out that he be the number 3 rather than the number 2 quarterback.

"... as Manning's primary back up quarterback Osweiler is always just one play away from having to go onto the field."
oh really? is that what happened with tebow in NY?
he was GIFTED the #2 spot just like OSZ but when it came time to actually name a STARTER to replace an injured sanchez, who got the job?
OS never took the field as the #2 QB in PRE_SEASON ! haine was always the one to replace manning ! OS never faced the #1 or #2 defense at ANY time in the pre-season.
yes, I am calling out JFE for hiding BO from top competition !

Chef Zambini
01-27-2013, 02:16 AM
Chef also said denver keeping hanie meant brock couldnt beat him out, even though brock beat him out abd was the backup qb the entire season.i like soup.

Chef Zambini
01-27-2013, 02:22 AM
sanchez, no competition for his job.
osweiler, noi competition for his job,

this is the sum totas of my compoarison between sanchez and osweiler.



worthless sacks of dogshit may try to create other hosrseshit comparisons for the sake of their small minded hostile,false accusations but this is my simple comparison.
sanchez, no competition, osweiler, no competition, PERIOD !

Jaded
01-27-2013, 02:32 AM
Zam no offense but I think competition for the backup QB position is somewhere between emergency punter and starting equipment manager on the list of priorities.

NFL teams are lucky to have a starter much less three.......

Jaded
01-27-2013, 02:42 AM
Ya know who the Packers brought in to "Rival" Aaron Rodgers in his second season? Todd Bouman and Ingle Martin.

His 3rd season? Craig Nall.

Ya see where I'm going with this?

His 4th season? They did bring in Brian Brohm and that turned out real well for the Packers.......

TXBRONC
01-27-2013, 09:09 AM
"... as Manning's primary back up quarterback Osweiler is always just one play away from having to go onto the field."
oh really? is that what happened with tebow in NY?
he was GIFTED the #2 spot just like OSZ but when it came time to actually name a STARTER to replace an injured sanchez, who got the job?
OS never took the field as the #2 QB in PRE_SEASON ! haine was always the one to replace manning ! OS never faced the #1 or #2 defense at ANY time in the pre-season.
yes, I am calling out JFE for hiding BO from top competition !

I don't give a damn what they do in New York. Maybe you're not aware of this, but how the Jets handle their quarterback situation doesn't dictate how Denver will handle their quarterback situation does it?

I think Osweiler was the second one off the bench during the preseason at least once but even if you're correct what the hell does that prove? That's Zam nothing. Apparently you're unaware of the fact that for most of season Hanie ended up being a game day deactivation. So your argument using the New Jets situation is really weak. Edit: I was wrong Hanie wasn't deactivated most of the season he was deactived for all 16 games.


http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster/Caleb-Hanie/b49e2c68-1214-49bb-83da-84c0b5e9c1b3

2012: Hanie was inactive for all 16 games during the 2012 regular season.

Now would you like carry on with the assisine comparison to Tebow in New York or are you going pull something equally as assinine from your rear end?

Amazing you've cried that you've been misrepresnted about calling Elway incompetent and or lazy yet you keep whinny about some how Elway is trying hide Osweiler. That is really dumb. You act like know how the inner workings of the team are handled but you don't know jack. You are calling Elway incompetent whether you can admit it or not.

TXBRONC
01-27-2013, 09:11 AM
sanchez, no competition for his job.
osweiler, noi competition for his job,

this is the sum totas of my compoarison between sanchez and osweiler.



worthless sacks of dogshit may try to create other hosrseshit comparisons for the sake of their small minded hostile,false accusations but this is my simple comparison.
sanchez, no competition, osweiler, no competition, PERIOD !

You're entitled to hold whatever opinion you wish but ignorance is still ignorance.

Chef Zambini
01-27-2013, 11:34 AM
just because a QB is listed as the #2 we have seen that he may not actually be the #2
this works both ways for os and haine
and we saw an example of it in NY.
OS NEEDS legitimate competition for the job if he is to excell.
just watching and learning aint enuff. rogers?
he was always thinking, I am gonna push brett out the door!
anyone here think OS is thinking that?

MOtorboat
01-27-2013, 11:40 AM
just because a QB is listed as the #2 we have seen that he may not actually be the #2
this works both ways for os and haine
and we saw an example of it in NY.
OS NEEDS legitimate competition for the job if he is to excell.
just watching and learning aint enuff. rogers?
he was always thinking, I am gonna push brett out the door!
anyone here think OS is thinking that?

Brock Osweiler is the backup quarterback for the Denver Broncos.

Chef Zambini
01-27-2013, 12:25 PM
Brock Osweiler is the backup quarterback for the Denver Broncos.exactly. and who has he competed against to earn that role?
that is the very essence of my concern, thanks mo.
BTW...

he is not just the back-up.
he has been declared the heir apparent,
when PFM is gone, the job is his.
JFE has said as much.

MOtorboat
01-27-2013, 12:53 PM
exactly. and who has he competed against to earn that role?
that is the very essence of my concern, thanks mo.
BTW...

he is not just the back-up.
he has been declared the heir apparent,
when PFM is gone, the job is his.
JFE has said as much.

Caleb Hanie and Adam Weber.

broncohead
01-27-2013, 01:17 PM
Most high drafted QBs don't get challenged for the starting spot but the FO is in good position to monitor his progress and bring in another potential starter if they don't believe he can hack it

MOtorboat
01-27-2013, 01:40 PM
Most high drafted QBs don't get challenged for the starting spot but the FO is in good position to monitor his progress and bring in another potential starter if they don't believe he can hack it

That.

Jaded
01-27-2013, 01:47 PM
Most teams are lucky to have competition for the #1 QB position and you want competition for the #2 QB/QBotF position? Show me all the teams in the league who have a bonified starter and legitimate competition for the #2/heir apparent job, if it's such a common thing it shouldn't be too hard to find.

For example, if you can definitively say that Ryan Mallett is being groomed to replace Brady, who is his competition? They dumped Hoyer, didn't they? At least I think they did. So, what gives?

I think we could all use some insight to what exactly it is you're looking for.......

TXBRONC
01-27-2013, 05:32 PM
just because a QB is listed as the #2 we have seen that he may not actually be the #2
this works both ways for os and haine
and we saw an example of it in NY.
OS NEEDS legitimate competition for the job if he is to excell.
just watching and learning aint enuff. rogers?
he was always thinking, I am gonna push brett out the door!
anyone here think OS is thinking that?

You don't know what anyone is thinking. You keep bringing Rodgers and since your so damn smart about how he came to be the starting quarterback of the Packers tell us genius who did have to compete with to become the starter? Answer: no one. You think you know it all but you haven't had one fact straight.

Btw it's not Rogers, it Rodgers with a "d" genius.

TXBRONC
01-27-2013, 07:26 PM
Caleb Hanie and Adam Weber.

Silly MO don't you know it's not real competition unless they beat out Osweiler? If they can't it's not real competition.

RebelRocker
01-27-2013, 10:45 PM
I was a huge fan of the Osweiler pick and still think highly of him as our POTENTIAL QBOTF, but I do believe it's a mistake to simply just "hand him the job" after PFM retires. Does that call for drafting a QB early this year or next year to compete? Absolutely not. As we've seen with some of the successful franchises across the league, they take the BPA and make moves a year before they become necessary. Like most people, I think it would be an absolutely waste of a pick to take another QB early this year and possibly next year, but if a good prospect falls to the late 4th-UDFA status and they're available for us, I wouldn't be against taking a flier on that guy. If we use our early picks and major FA investments in our need positions(along with re-signing key players), I don't see the problem with us taking a chance on a QB late in the draft. At the very worst, we could stash him on the PS for a year or two and use him as our emergency back up, if need be. Many people seem to forget that the year Favre "retired" from GB, the Packers spent TWO draft picks on QB's to compete with Rodgers, even after Rodgers had spent 3 years on the team. Three years of pre-season, OTA, training camp and occasional starting QB snaps that Rodgers had under his belt and the Packers STILL invested two picks on QB's to compete.

My point is, if the Broncos feel it's necessary to keep Osweiler as the backup, then so be it. He shouldn't be sharing valuable snaps and playing time with a journeyman QB. He needs that playing time so we can gauge his progress and if we need to look elsewhere soon.

What I would do,

1. Cut Hanie
2. Invest a few FA signings into need positions
3. Use our first few picks on BPA/Fill remaining areas of need.
4. Let the board fall where it may and see if a talented QB falls to the 5th or later.
5. If #4 doesn't happen, Take a flier on a QB in the 7th or as an UDFA to use as a camp arm/PS developmental guy

This is what our FO should be doing every year and going into Elway's 3rd off-season leading the team, he has shown that he will do these things in that order. I'm not advocating for QB's to be drafted for the hell of it, but if an opportunity to get a potentially awesome player presents itself, you CAN'T pass on it. Regardless of position.