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creyners
01-13-2013, 04:27 PM
Why give up?? Look at what Matt Ryan just did. And in the Broncos case it was tied and it was a free chance. Someone doesn't trust our offense - and yet another reason the game was lost - someone just gave up a free opportunity.

SR
01-13-2013, 04:28 PM
Great story.

Northman
01-13-2013, 04:29 PM
Why did Seattle choke? Looks like they gave up some plays on defense too. Its football, shit happens.

silkamilkamonico
01-13-2013, 04:29 PM
Can we please sticky this thread. Maybe somehow it will get to John Fox.

tomjonesrocks
01-13-2013, 04:33 PM
Peyton couldn't throw downfield all game. Suddenly he's going to rip off 2-3 25-yard outs to win the game in 30 seconds?

He got the ball back in OT and did shit with it.

He was done after what should have been the game winning drive in the 4th. He clearly had nothing left. He was beaten the second The Dream shit the bed.

The 3rd and 7 was the big coaching mistake.

silkamilkamonico
01-13-2013, 04:41 PM
Peyton couldn't throw downfield all game. Suddenly he's going to rip off 2-3 25-yard outs to win the game in 30 seconds?

He got the ball back in OT and did shit with it.

He was done after what should have been the game winning drive in the 4th. He clearly had nothing left. He was beaten the second The Dream shit the bed.

The 3rd and 7 was the big coaching mistake.

There's an element to this I agree with.

At first I was kicking Fox because he's a lame conservative coach that would rather "not lose" than reach out and snatch victory at the jaws of defeat.

Then I thought about the scenario involving your statement. And it makes me think there's more thought to this Manning sucks in cold weather, and it makes me lose any hope of running through the gauntlet of playoffs to the superbowl, considering eventually he would most likely be playing outdoors.

creyners
01-13-2013, 04:59 PM
Sure, it is nondescript and who is to blame? Ultimately the HEAD COACH.

creyners
01-13-2013, 05:00 PM
Yes, but this is the playoffs - your last game if you are too conservative (and have a defensive mindset). It most playoff scenarios, it is the team with the offensive slant that gets to the championship.

Northman
01-13-2013, 05:02 PM
The last 30 seconds on offense wasnt going to do anything. The air had been sucked out of the team and the stadium by that point because of the terrible play on Smith.

creyners
01-13-2013, 05:06 PM
Sure they lost the momentum but just giving up isn't the stuff great coaches and teams are made of. If I gave up I'd still be flipping burgers at BK right after high school!

Peyton is Never done. He is one of the all time great players - one who would never give up - a shoe in for the hall of fame. Why not give him the chance to do what he does best? He performs best under that sort of pressure - whereas the OT period just cooled him off more.

creyners
01-13-2013, 05:09 PM
But Peyton just gets right back at them if you give him the chance. 2 timeouts, 30 seconds. Eons for Peyton. The OT period just flipped the coin again and made it an even game. They lost their advantage when they gave up.

CrazyHorse
01-13-2013, 05:09 PM
I agree. We played way to conservatively at the end. We had this game in the bag then blew it. If Manning's arm strength in the cold was an issue why not but in Brock?

Northman
01-13-2013, 05:10 PM
Sure they lost the momentum but just giving up isn't the stuff great coaches and teams are made of. If I gave up I'd still be flipping burgers at BK right after high school!

Peyton is Never done. He is one of the all time great players - one who would never give up - a shoe in for the hall of fame. Why not give him the chance to do what he does best? He performs best under that sort of pressure - whereas the OT period just cooled him off more.


Fox felt his chances were better in OT. While i agree that Fox isnt all that if Denver actually wins in OT would the final 30 seconds even be a discussion right now? No. of course not. Its easy to second guess a decision like that but the reality is that either Peyton himself or the coaching staff wanted to take their chances in OT instead of maybe having a turnover at the end of regulation.

The reality for the Broncos yesterday is when they went up 21-14, 28-21, and 35-28 they had chances to put the game away and didnt come through. The final 30 seconds was not the catalyst for why we lost. We never took advantage of the other opportunities that we had to win the game even in OT.

creyners
01-13-2013, 05:10 PM
Nonetheless, 30 sec, 2 timeouts - wasted! A great chance - BLOWN!

Mr. Pro Bowl
01-13-2013, 05:11 PM
I agree. We played way to conservatively at the end. We had this game in the bag then blew it.
Can't say it any other better way...

creyners
01-13-2013, 05:12 PM
Look at the history of great playoff games. More than not the defensive team loses and the offensive turns up on top. The defensive mindset will not win championships (unless all other teams just give up on offense too).

creyners
01-13-2013, 05:30 PM
Yes Peyton can and has done that. He wasn't given the extra chance. Just the ones in OT. And like in the sudden death part of OT, it was a free chance to put the game away.

Dzone
01-13-2013, 05:46 PM
Was pretty easy for Matt Ryan to go the same distance with 2 timeouts and 30 seconds to win the game with a field goal. How can anyone who saw that not remember yesterday. Nothing wrong with wondering why the hell we kneel down in the same situation.

wayninja
01-13-2013, 06:29 PM
The only reason you do that is if something is wrong. That you feel there is a significant likelyhood of turning the ball over for some reason. I can't think of another good reason to not run a play or two.

scott.475
01-13-2013, 06:52 PM
The only reason you do that is if something is wrong. That you feel there is a significant likelyhood of turning the ball over for some reason. I can't think of another good reason to not run a play or two.

Blows my mind. I don't think I'll ever understand it. When it happened I practically yelled at my wife that I couldn't believe Fox had done that. She was even mad!

Poet
01-13-2013, 06:53 PM
You guys are going to make it really hard on yourselves.

Northman
01-13-2013, 06:55 PM
Not me. I understood that sequence perfectly.

zbeg
01-13-2013, 06:55 PM
If you look at the situations, it turns out that teams that throw in these situations end up screwing up and it's better to kneel.

...wait, that's the opposite of what's true. There's almost no risk. I mean, there's the risk you win the game...so we can't have that.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2013/01/broncos-botch-final-drives.html

ShaneFalco
01-13-2013, 06:58 PM
we could have tried a screen or something... still mad about this call

chaoticmayhem
01-13-2013, 07:12 PM
up 31-13 in the 4th the Pats throw a long bomb for a TD on 1st down making it 38-13. That's how you stomp your opponent into dust in the playoffs. Not 3 runs when you need a 1st to seal the game.

Dzone
01-13-2013, 07:18 PM
How many times did Hillman just plunge it into the line for 2 yards? Out in space,Hes a threat to go all the way . Dont understand why not set him up to succeed.
That last 30 seconds with 2 timeouts sticks in the craw. Just overly cautious coaching not to lose. Infuriating

DenBronx
01-13-2013, 07:23 PM
Why did Seattle choke? Looks like they gave up some plays on defense too. Its football, shit happens.


Seattle could have upset ANYONE in the playoffs. But every snap during the game anything can happen. Regular season is one thing but when you get to post season you are 0-0 just like everyone else and you play the best of the best. To be great you must find way to win.

This is something to build on but damn.....it just feels like 1996 all over again. So maybe next year is our 1997.

We will win the division again next year North. We have a small window but we are going to have to improve in the offseason. I believe our adjustments dont need to be major but we deffinitely need to make a few minor changes and draft well again.

Speaking of the draft....I wonder what pick we are going to end up with. I would also like us to go after Welker if Stokely retires to give us a boost in the slot.

creyners
01-13-2013, 09:41 PM
The only reason you do that is if something is wrong. That you feel there is a significant likelyhood of turning the ball over for some reason. I can't think of another good reason to not run a play or two.

You could do something wrong at any time. Why play at all? Maybe they were too tired and cold??

creyners
01-13-2013, 09:43 PM
Yeah, it's not like they don't practice the two minute drill.... 2 time outs stretches that & they only needed a FG!!!!

creyners
01-13-2013, 09:50 PM
up 31-13 in the 4th the Pats throw a long bomb for a TD on 1st down making it 38-13. That's how you stomp your opponent into dust in the playoffs. Not 3 runs when you need a 1st to seal the game.

But there are some that believe you shouldn't even try!!! Yes the Pats would have been beat down if they didn't keep up their offense and just played run and defense. The Texans would not let up!

Gamechanger
01-13-2013, 09:56 PM
the field position would have been a gamble to go for a field goal, and the way Manning was playing may not have been the best idea to do so.

but that's why the game's so entertaining, there's always what ifs and could've beens.

creyners
01-13-2013, 10:00 PM
How many times did Hillman just plunge it into the line for 2 yards? Out in space,Hes a threat to go all the way . Dont understand why not set him up to succeed.
That last 30 seconds with 2 timeouts sticks in the craw. Just overly cautious coaching not to lose. Infuriating

It's one thing to lose by trying when you have the chance and yet another to just roll over and hope you'll win in OT. By blowing the regulation time it was an even contest again. The loss of Moreno certainly screwed up the game plan by not being able to get those short yardage 1st downs. The officials sure didn't help the Broncs much in the first half either.

creyners
01-13-2013, 10:07 PM
the field position would have been a gamble to go for a field goal, and the way Manning was playing may not have been the best idea to do so.

but that's why the game's so entertaining, there's always what ifs and could've beens.

Yes, a vicious cycle - " if he was playing well then sure we'll go for it ", vs. "but no, he looks sucky tonight so let's just roll over and hand off the Hillman steamroller in OT (right)..."

I think the next "elite" mobile QBs have arrived. Wilson and Kappernick personify this and it would have been great to have them play each other in the NFC championship (almost happened too).

creyners
01-13-2013, 10:11 PM
The only reason you do that is if something is wrong. That you feel there is a significant likelyhood of turning the ball over for some reason. I can't think of another good reason to not run a play or two.

Yes, maybe Manning's fingers were numb or something. I know my toes were in the '08 Bills game when it was a balmy 17 deg F.

Hawgdriver
01-13-2013, 10:14 PM
I was called away and missed the kneel downs. Somehow, I knew that is what would happen.

After the 3rd & 7 was a handoff, I knew the outcome. I had to keep watching to the end, but my gut knew.

Thanks Broncos for a hell of a 2012, and can't wait til you fellas bring it in '13.

sneakers
01-13-2013, 10:18 PM
B-be-because that's what they do

dunk7
01-13-2013, 10:23 PM
I'm sure it has been quoted a million times in the last 24 hours but Herm Edwards one said: "You play to win the game". This frustrated me throughout the year and it finally bit us in the ass.

Anyone else notice that Atlanta and Houston both had fields with drives starting with 30 seconds or less. I don't care if Manning didn't have feeling in his entire arm. Throw 5 yard passes and see what develops. The percentages of a potential turnover are extremely low.

TimHippo
01-14-2013, 12:32 AM
Fox felt his chances were better in OT. .

Why would the chances be better in OT?

You have 30 seconds and 2 timeouts to gain a couple yards and put Prater out there.

Why give the Ravens an equal chance to win the game in OT?

Unless Prater was hurt from kicking the ground previously, Fox blew it.

TimHippo
01-14-2013, 12:36 AM
the field position would have been a gamble to go for a field goal, and the way Manning was playing may not have been the best idea to do so.
.

So then it's better to go to OT with the way Manning was playing? That doesn't make any sense at all.

bcbronc
01-14-2013, 02:16 AM
yeah, at least try a WR screen to DT, or even a frickin draw. Taking a knee was a terrible call.

I like Fox, and overall I'm a big fan of his. Thought the 3rd and 7 call was fine--no wrong decision there imo, whether you throw or run. But 30 seconds with 2 timeouts is plenty of time. And it's not like a couple incompletions would have hurt us. If it's 3rd and 10, then you take a knee if you want.

I guess when you're QB has already had two TOs at that point and hadn't thrown down field in a while, Fox was probably thinking "win the coin flip and let Holiday win this thing" but that's not the mentality you need. I'm hoping Fox learned something here, the meek may inherit the earth but they don't raise no Lombardis.