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Lonestar
08-17-2009, 11:10 PM
By Zach Eisendrath
DenverBroncos.com

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Following Friday night's preseason opener, Kyle Orton stepped inside a Candlestick Park media room and gave reporters a quick assessment of his Broncos debut. He said he felt comfortable leading Denver's offense down the field, but admitted that he needed to correct a few poor decisions.

Three days later, Orton's self-examination hasn't changed much.

With the assistance of live-game footage, he had the opportunity to sit down with Josh McDaniels and offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach Mike McCoy at Dove Valley this week and review his play.

After thoroughly evaluating the tape, Orton once again came away optimistic about how, for the most part, he and his offensive counterparts executed against the 49ers, saying his unit left the Bay Area with a lot of confidence. And while Orton certainly would like to have his three first-half interceptions back, he believes he will benefit from those miscues in the long run.

"I did a lot of good things and made three bad decisions," Orton said. Certainly it's something that I've got to correct, and do it quickly, but I haven't been a turnover-prone guy in my career and I'm not going to sit here and press about it."

Orton said he was most disappointed with his first error in judgment, an interception that came on the team's first offensive possession. After quickly and effectively leading the club downfield and deep into the red zone, he dropped back to pass on second-and-goal from the 3-yard line. Looking to connect with Daniel Graham in the end zone, Orton tried to fit the ball into a tight window and Nate Clements picked off the pass.

"I'm smarter than that to put the ball in jeopardy," Orton said. "That ball should've gone out of the back of the end zone, and we would've had a good chance on third down or kicked a field goal."

In total, Orton finished his Broncos debut 9-of-16; amassing 89 yards through the air for his efforts. While Orton had his share of critics following his first game as signal caller for the Broncos, Chris Simms wasn't one of them. In fact, the club's No. 2 quarterback was one of Orton's biggest advocates following the exhibition contest.

"Kyle didn't struggle," Simms said after the game. "I really don't think he did. I know he made some mistakes, but he moved the ball well in all his series. I think he'll tell you the same thing -- he just missed three throws that I see him make every day in practice. Kyle's a good player, I know he'll bounce back and he'll be ready to go next week."

Orton's bounce-back ability is already in full display at Dove Valley. On Sunday, at the team's first practice following the game, he worked diligently to correct his mistakes -- zeroing in on his miscues during a series of walkthroughs. On Monday morning, when the club returned to full pads, Orton looked sharp throughout 11-on-11s, drawing praise from fans after connecting on a pair of 40-plus yard bombs to Eddie Royal and Jabar Gaffney.

After starting 33 games in Chicago, Orton recognizes the high expectations that fans put on starting quarterbacks throughout the NFL. He isn't shying away from those expectations. Far from it. Instead, he is focused on improving each day.

"I understand they want us to be playing perfect right off the bat, and that's just how it is in this league," Orton said of the fans. "But I just try to stay on track, do my job and get better this week and play better on Saturday."

LEARNING AS THEY GO

Overall, McDaniels was pleased with how the team performed in a number of areas on Friday night. Specifically, the first-year head coach was satisfied that the club recorded only two negative run plays in 67 snaps.

But, like any detail-oriented coach, McDaniels' focal point this week will be in correcting the deficiencies he saw against San Francisco. One of those was on defense, where he thought his team gave up too many yards on second-and-long situations.

"There are pros and cons on both sides of the ball," McDaniels said.

"We are working diligently out here to try to fix the things that we feel, at this point, (are) things that we either struggled with or we made some mistakes on. All of the mistakes that we feel like we made on Friday night and in practice are fixable and correctable, and that's hopefully what we are targeting and trying to improve on."

McDaniels hasn't just been zeroing in on correcting his players' mistakes. He's also focused on fixing a few slip-ups the team's coaching staff experienced during their first game together as a unit.

"We had a couple delayed substitutions, which forced us to use a couple time outs," he said. "In the preseason, there are 80 guys on the sidelines, so you have got to be on top of that a little bit more because we have got a little bit more moving parts."

McDaniels is holding himself accountable, too. He is looking to improve upon his game-management skills as the exhibition season continues.

"I can learn something from every one of these preseason games," he said. "I learn something from every one of these practices and try to keep notes and do a better job each day that I am out here. Hopefully, I will do a better job in Seattle, and our team and our staff will perform the same way."

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=9242

Northman
08-17-2009, 11:13 PM
Thats all great and all but in the end he still made the mistakes and thats worriesome. Hopefully he gets better.

Lonestar
08-17-2009, 11:24 PM
Thats all great and all but in the end he still made the mistakes and thats worrisome. Hopefully he gets better.

need to listen/watch the video attach to the link..


it makes it more understandable..

GEM
08-17-2009, 11:25 PM
I hope the mistakes get corrected and it is only 1 game into preseason after only 2 weeks into training camp and a few OTA's. The best part about reading this stuff is that you see a guy taking responsibility, he doesn't throw his TEAMMATES under the bus. When he talks about work needing to be done, he says the work HE has to do. It's refreshing.

dogfish
08-17-2009, 11:44 PM
talk is cheap. . . . he needs to play a LOT better, and he needs to get there fast. . .

honz
08-17-2009, 11:46 PM
Orton sucks.

LoyalSoldier
08-18-2009, 12:07 AM
I am praying that this first game was something else like maybe Orton's girlfriend left him or something.

anton...
08-18-2009, 05:22 AM
i like football!

Dirk
08-18-2009, 05:41 AM
I am praying that this first game was something else like maybe Orton's girlfriend left him or something.

That gave me a good chuckle this morning! :lol:

Dirk
08-18-2009, 05:43 AM
Give the guy to at least mid season. I mean c'mon..the guy has a whole new playbook and system to learn. As does the rest of the offense! His first preseason game should not be used as a marker to judge him.

Now if he does not learn from his mistakes and carries them on and on and on....then we run him out of town on a rail....lol

But seriously...give him a few games into the regular season before passing too harsh of judgement.

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 08:21 AM
Give the guy to at least mid season. I mean c'mon..the guy has a whole new playbook and system to learn. As does the rest of the offense! His first preseason game should not be used as a marker to judge him.

Now if he does not learn from his mistakes and carries them on and on and on....then we run him out of town on a rail....lol

But seriously...give him a few games into the regular season before passing too harsh of judgement.

That is not allowed!!! When you are replacing Jesus Cutler...the most perfect QB ever...you are expected to be flawless IMMEDIATELY

claymore
08-18-2009, 08:33 AM
Give the guy to at least mid season. I mean c'mon..the guy has a whole new playbook and system to learn. As does the rest of the offense! His first preseason game should not be used as a marker to judge him.

Now if he does not learn from his mistakes and carries them on and on and on....then we run him out of town on a rail....lol

But seriously...give him a few games into the regular season before passing too harsh of judgement.

Why should we? This whole Orton/Cutler pick trade thing isnt a normal blunder. It was a flat out retarded ordeal.

Unfortunatley Orton will get the majority of the negativity though but... McDaniels/Bowlen deserves to be heckled more because its their fault.

If it ends up working out in the end, I will swallow my pride, and buy merchandise. If it doesnt, they deserve all the criticisim, boos, etc... they get.

They rolled the dice.

Say what you want about Cutler being a bitch, but we still held his contract for a couple years.

Thnikkaman
08-18-2009, 08:38 AM
That is not allowed!!! When you are replacing Jesus Cutler...the most perfect QB ever...you are expected to be flawless IMMEDIATELY

But his arm. Its stronger than Elway's.

Hobe
08-18-2009, 08:55 AM
Nothing has change. He is still on the learning curve. The question is how high on the curve he will get by the beginning of the season and onward.

Still in the wait and see mode.

Dirk
08-18-2009, 09:04 AM
Why should we? This whole Orton/Cutler pick trade thing isnt a normal blunder. It was a flat out retarded ordeal.

Unfortunatley Orton will get the majority of the negativity though but... McDaniels/Bowlen deserves to be heckled more because its their fault.

If it ends up working out in the end, I will swallow my pride, and buy merchandise. If it doesnt, they deserve all the criticisim, boos, etc... they get.

They rolled the dice.

Say what you want about Cutler being a bitch, but we still held his contract for a couple years.

I'm not saying that it wasn't the front office' fault. And not wanting to get into that whole debate again.

What I am saying is give Orton a chance to learn. If in fact he can and will do good...then better for all of us. Don't throw Orton under the bus just because we don't like what happened between the FO and Cutty. He is a Bronco for now.

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 09:06 AM
Why should we? This whole Orton/Cutler pick trade thing isnt a normal blunder. It was a flat out retarded ordeal.

Unfortunatley Orton will get the majority of the negativity though but... McDaniels/Bowlen deserves to be heckled more because its their fault.

If it ends up working out in the end, I will swallow my pride, and buy merchandise. If it doesnt, they deserve all the criticisim, boos, etc... they get.

They rolled the dice.

Say what you want about Cutler being a bitch, but we still held his contract for a couple years.

Last I heard, McD listened to a trade offer and Cutler demanded one.

claymore
08-18-2009, 09:07 AM
Last I heard, McD listened to a trade offer and Cutler demanded one.

Cutler demanded one after meeting with JMCD. JMCD was stoopid to listen.

Thnikkaman
08-18-2009, 09:09 AM
Cutler demanded one after meeting with JMCD. JMCD was stoopid to listen.

Did McD trade Cutler or Bowlen?

claymore
08-18-2009, 09:10 AM
Did McD trade Cutler or Bowlen?

Im sure Ellis did, but Bowlen said it was his decision.

Thnikkaman
08-18-2009, 09:16 AM
Im sure Ellis did, but Bowlen said it was his decision.

Yeah I think I read that in the paper. I'm very well read you know.

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 09:19 AM
Cutler demanded one after meeting with JMCD. JMCD was stoopid to listen.

That's right...I forgot. McD kind of told Cutler that no one was going to kiss his ass and put him on a pedestal and King Cutler got pissy. I remember now

Superchop 7
08-18-2009, 09:27 AM
A couple of things.

Being serious here, stepping aside from my "I hate Ellis" mantra.

Generally speaking, what you see in the preseason (deficiensies) is what you get in the regular season. I saw lousy play at linebacker last year........and.......thats what we got.

Based on this, Simms is the better QB, he plays QB to "his" strengths and doesn't try to be a robot. Josh may hate this, but trying to put a square peg in a round hole doesn't work either. We are weak at the position but strong everywhere else on offense.

I was also impressed with Simms anger after his int, obviously....it meant alot to him as opposed to Orton acting non-chalant about 3 of them. This is a good thing.

Defensively, we are much improved except for d-line, Nolan is trying to compensate with pressure but we will get bit in the tail every once in awhile with the big play, he is doing the best with what he's got and thats what I expected from him, but there is only so much he can do until we get better personnel.

We are stacked at WR, very talented group.

Thnikkaman
08-18-2009, 09:34 AM
A couple of things.

Being serious here, stepping aside from my "I hate Ellis" mantra.

Generally speaking, what you see in the preseason (deficiensies) is what you get in the regular season. I saw lousy play at linebacker last year........and.......thats what we got.

Based on this, Simms is the better QB, he plays QB to "his" strengths and doesn't try to be a robot. Josh may hate this, but trying to put a square peg in a round hole doesn't work either. We are weak at the position but strong everywhere else on offense.

I was also impressed with Simms anger after his int, obviously....it meant alot to him as opposed to Orton acting non-chalant about 3 of them. This is a good thing.

Defensively, we are much improved except for d-line, Nolan is trying to compensate with pressure but we will get bit in the tail every once in awhile with the big play, he is doing the best with what he's got and thats what I expected from him, but there is only so much he can do until we get better personnel.

We are stacked at WR, very talented group.

Is this something you see from all teams preseason performance, or just our team with the old coaching regime?

Mike
08-18-2009, 09:45 AM
Good grief, are we still arguing over this crap? Cutler is gone. Who was wrong and who was right doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Carrying on like a baby that got his toy taken won't change it. It is done.

I will never understand why people look forward to tearing down players on their favorite team. Step up and support the team and wish for the best instead of rooting for failure just to say "I told you so" on an internet message board.

I swear, it's like I'm playin' cards with my brother's kids or somethin'. You nerve-wrackin' sons-a-bitches. ;)

Mike
08-18-2009, 09:48 AM
Generally speaking, what you see in the preseason (deficiensies) is what you get in the regular season. I saw lousy play at linebacker last year........and.......thats what we got.

Based on this, Simms is the better QB, he plays QB to "his" strengths and doesn't try to be a robot. Josh may hate this, but trying to put a square peg in a round hole doesn't work either. We are weak at the position but strong everywhere else on offense.

I was also impressed with Simms anger after his int, obviously....it meant alot to him as opposed to Orton acting non-chalant about 3 of them. This is a good thing.

He played well and a case can be made that the position is still a competition, but let's be honest, Simms benefited from more conservative playcalling and a hell of a lot better run game...and going against 2nd/3rd teamers didn't hurt. Like much else, it is wait and see, I am looking forward to seeing how Orton and Simms play in Seattle.

Lonestar
08-18-2009, 09:53 AM
That's right...I forgot. McD kind of told Cutler that no one was going to kiss his ass and put him on a pedestal and QUEEN Cutler got pissy. I remember now

Edited for acuracy.

Sent Via Blackberry.

NightTrainLayne
08-18-2009, 09:55 AM
Edited for acuracy.

Sent Via Blackberry.




Good grief, are we still arguing over this crap? Cutler is gone. Who was wrong and who was right doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Carrying on like a baby that got his toy taken won't change it. It is done.

I will never understand why people look forward to tearing down players on their favorite team. Step up and support the team and wish for the best instead of rooting for failure just to say "I told you so" on an internet message board.

I swear, it's like I'm playin' cards with my brother's kids or somethin'. You nerve-wrackin' sons-a-bitches. ;)

That goes for you to JR. :D

claymore
08-18-2009, 10:08 AM
Good grief, are we still arguing over this crap? Cutler is gone. Who was wrong and who was right doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Carrying on like a baby that got his toy taken won't change it. It is done.

I will never understand why people look forward to tearing down players on their favorite team. Step up and support the team and wish for the best instead of rooting for failure just to say "I told you so" on an internet message board.

I swear, it's like I'm playin' cards with my brother's kids or somethin'. You nerve-wrackin' sons-a-bitches. ;)

BS. JMCD deserves criticisim. I dont root agains Orton, I hope Im wrong, and he turns it around. JMCD made this ordeal happen. He deserves a short leash.,

Northman
08-18-2009, 10:16 AM
Give the guy to at least mid season. I mean c'mon..the guy has a whole new playbook and system to learn. As does the rest of the offense! His first preseason game should not be used as a marker to judge him.

Now if he does not learn from his mistakes and carries them on and on and on....then we run him out of town on a rail....lol

But seriously...give him a few games into the regular season before passing too harsh of judgement.


But who's fault is that? Look, im hoping he does better but my expectations of McD and this team are still the same. McDaniels created a stir with the prior Qb here who was already familiar with the players and chemistry. And Orton isnt a rookie and he is known for somewhat taking care of the ball. I could of handled maybe 1 or 2 INT's but 3? In just one half? I dont care who you are, thats just unacceptable. Could be just a bad game and i hope thats the case but i dont agree with you that you cant look at this game and have some reservations about how this season could turn out. Im like a lot of you and dont want to have to look back this season and say, damn we made a huge mistake here.

TXBRONC
08-18-2009, 10:41 AM
Did McD trade Cutler or Bowlen?

Common sense says that McDaniels did.

Thnikkaman
08-18-2009, 10:48 AM
Common sense says that McDaniels did.

But that goes against Occam's razor.

Dirk
08-18-2009, 10:51 AM
Hey North....I hear ya brother!

All I am sayin is lets get into the season before we throw the kid under the bus.

Watchthemiddle
08-18-2009, 10:54 AM
I think people who want to give up on Orton after one preseason game are living in the past.

You see, these are the people who have cheered on Cutler and never saw any improvement in him therefore believe Orton can't improve either.

claymore
08-18-2009, 11:18 AM
I think people who want to give up on Orton after one preseason game are living in the past.

You see, these are the people who have cheered on Cutler and never saw any improvement in him therefore believe Orton can't improve either.

The Cutler statement is just ridiculous. As for Orton, he has sucked ass in his first 2 visible tests. 5 Int's 0 TD's against base defenses. JC was a very good young QB that is gone.

The replacement (Orton) sucks ass. Its hard to say this, but I think he will be worse than Plummer.

TXBRONC
08-18-2009, 11:21 AM
But that goes against Occam's razor.

It has nothing to do with Occam's razor.

claymore
08-18-2009, 11:23 AM
WTF is Occams razor?

NightTrainLayne
08-18-2009, 11:25 AM
WTF is Occams razor?

Something new that Gillette is peddling.

Thnikkaman
08-18-2009, 11:26 AM
It has nothing to do with Occam's razor.

But it does.

Occam's razor states that when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better.

The most likely reason is that Cutler not returning Bowlen's phone calls is the reason why he was sent to Chicago. At least, it doesn't seem as contrived as McDaniels telling Bowlen what to do.

Thnikkaman
08-18-2009, 11:27 AM
Something new that Gillette is peddling.

Is that it? Is that your one funny for the month? Good job NTL, hit the showers.

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 11:31 AM
But...it's easier to blame the coach. Like anything else, he gets scoffed and feared because he is new and it's...God forbid...change. ANYTHING that happens will be placed at his feet when blame is to be spread. As a supporter of the change, I'm okay with that and I'm sure McD could care less.

claymore
08-18-2009, 11:34 AM
But...it's easier to blame the coach. Like anything else, he gets scoffed and feared because he is new and it's...God forbid...change. ANYTHING that happens will be placed at his feet when blame is to be spread. As a supporter of the change, I'm okay with that and I'm sure McD could care less.

Its not just change Chaz. The Cutler thing, the Trade of next years #1, the Paxton thing.

McD has done some bold things. He needs to show results sooner rather than later.

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 11:42 AM
Its not just change Chaz. The Cutler thing, the Trade of next years #1, the Paxton thing.

McD has done some bold things. He needs to show results sooner rather than later.

Says who? Teams trade #1's all the time...doesnt immediately define failure. if A. Smith truly is first round talent and shows it on the field, then what's the problem? What if we kept it and ended up with anoth Jarvis Moss next year? No one can say jack shit about that trade for a few years...but I understand it's easy to add it to the miniscule arsenal of things to flame McD for.

Paxton. WHO CARES? Even if he is only "as good" as his predecessor, does it really matter? Is it our money that was spent on him? Was it a mega-million dollar contract? Seriously...complaining about signing a long snapper is as ridiculous as complaining about trading a first round pick for a first round talented player.

The Cutler thing...again...that's all left up to speculation and assumption.

So, I retort...it's easy to take these things and blame it all on the new guy. As far as assumptions go, I'll give you one...NO ONE would be doing this complaining and asking for the coaches head if Shanny had done all this.

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 11:50 AM
Says who? Teams trade #1's all the time...doesnt immediately define failure. if A. Smith truly is first round talent and shows it on the field, then what's the problem? What if we kept it and ended up with anoth Jarvis Moss next year? No one can say jack shit about that trade for a few years...but I understand it's easy to add it to the miniscule arsenal of things to flame McD for.

Paxton. WHO CARES? Even if he is only "as good" as his predecessor, does it really matter? Is it our money that was spent on him? Was it a mega-million dollar contract? Seriously...complaining about signing a long snapper is as ridiculous as complaining about trading a first round pick for a first round talented player.

The Cutler thing...again...that's all left up to speculation and assumption.

So, I retort...it's easy to take these things and blame it all on the new guy. As far as assumptions go, I'll give you one...NO ONE would be doing this complaining and asking for the coaches head if Shanny had done all this.

Shanny earned the right to be given benifit of the doubt.

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 11:52 AM
Shanny earned the right to be given benifit of the doubt.

Oh...that makes it all better. You use to have winning seasons for use a few years ago, so we wont question the questionable decisions you make. Seriously?

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 11:55 AM
Oh...that makes it all better. You use to have winning seasons for use a few years ago, so we wont question the questionable decisions you make. Seriously?

:rolleyes:

What has McD done as an NFL head coach to deserve a free pass?

Not to mention do your really not remember the hords of people questioning Shanny every inch of the way. This is not some new trend you know.

Thnikkaman
08-18-2009, 11:58 AM
:rolleyes:

What has McD done as an NFL head coach to deserve a free pass?

Not to mention do your really not remember the hords of people questioning Shanny every inch of the way. This is not some new trend you know.

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. He has coached 1 preseason game. He has no record as a head coach. Not one regular season game. We have no idea how that team is going to play when they step on the field in Cincy on 9/13, do you?

We will have a better idea at the end of the season, but until then I would rather give him the benefit of the doubt than throw him under the bus.

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 12:03 PM
:rolleyes:

What has McD done as an NFL head coach to deserve a free pass?

Not to mention do your really not remember the hords of people questioning Shanny every inch of the way. This is not some new trend you know.

Nothing...but while I dont think ANY coach should get a free pass, I also dont think they should be questioned until they are a proven failure.

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 12:05 PM
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. He has coached 1 preseason game. He has no record as a head coach. Not one regular season game. We have no idea how that team is going to play when they step on the field in Cleveland on 9/13, do you?

We will have a better idea at the end of the season, but until then I would rather give him the benefit of the doubt than throw him under the bus.

I dont see questioning his decissions todate as "throwing him under the bus"

I personally love the overall direction the team is heading but that does not mean I cant disagree with certain decissions made by any member of the coaching staff.

FWIW we might have a pretty good idea how the team is going to play in Cleveland after week one in Cinncy ;)

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 12:10 PM
Nothing...but while I dont think ANY coach should get a free pass, I also dont think they should be questioned until they are a proven failure.

That is where we simply dont agree. I believe it is more then ok to question the team at any time and point. It does not make one a good fan nor a bad fan.

GEM
08-18-2009, 12:13 PM
Why should we? This whole Orton/Cutler pick trade thing isnt a normal blunder. It was a flat out retarded ordeal.

Unfortunatley Orton will get the majority of the negativity though but... McDaniels/Bowlen deserves to be heckled more because its their fault.

If it ends up working out in the end, I will swallow my pride, and buy merchandise. If it doesnt, they deserve all the criticisim, boos, etc... they get.

They rolled the dice.

Say what you want about Cutler being a bitch, but we still held his contract for a couple years.

Why shouldn't we? We gave Cutler the 3 year slider. Orton doesn't deserve at least a few weeks? Double standards at their best.

Thnikkaman
08-18-2009, 12:16 PM
I dont see questioning his decissions todate as "throwing him under the bus"

I personally love the overall direction the team is heading but that does not mean I cant disagree with certain decissions made by any member of the coaching staff.

FWIW we might have a pretty good idea how the team is going to play in Cleveland after week one in Cinncy ;)

I left my A game at home today after only getting 4 hours of sleep last night. ;)

topscribe
08-18-2009, 12:20 PM
Says who? Teams trade #1's all the time...doesnt immediately define failure. if A. Smith truly is first round talent and shows it on the field, then what's the problem? What if we kept it and ended up with anoth Jarvis Moss next year? No one can say jack shit about that trade for a few years...but I understand it's easy to add it to the miniscule arsenal of things to flame McD for.

Paxton. WHO CARES? Even if he is only "as good" as his predecessor, does it really matter? Is it our money that was spent on him? Was it a mega-million dollar contract? Seriously...complaining about signing a long snapper is as ridiculous as complaining about trading a first round pick for a first round talented player.

The Cutler thing...again...that's all left up to speculation and assumption.

So, I retort...it's easy to take these things and blame it all on the new guy. As far as assumptions go, I'll give you one...NO ONE would be doing this complaining and asking for the coaches head if Shanny had done all this.

Actually, Coach, the Paxton deal pissed me off more than anything. True, it's
no big deal from the standpoint of the team and it's W-L record, but Leach
had actually drawn attention to himself over the years with his superbly
consistent snapping, so there was no reason whatsoever to disrupt his life
his family's life to replace him with another person who could not improve on
Leach's nearly perfect performances. To me, it was cronyism at its finest . . .

-----

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 12:22 PM
That is where we simply dont agree. I believe it is more then ok to question the team at any time and point. It does not make one a good fan nor a bad fan.

I'm not saying anyone is a bad or good fan. But none of us have the credentials to be NFL coaches. So any of us questioning a player move by someone who is better suited to make that decision seems a little extreme.


I'll say this much right now. NEVER, during the years I've been watching, scouting and reviewing football at different levels have I EVER heard anyone ever complain about the comings and goings of long snappers.

The fact those complaints happened here tell me that it's not about Paxton or the team..it's about McD and the ease and preference to dislike him for soing something that some people are incapable of understanding

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 12:22 PM
Actually, Coach, the Paxton deal pissed me off more than anything. True, it's
no big deal from the standpoint of the team and it's W-L record, but Leach
had actually drawn attention to himself over the years with his superbly
consistent snapping, so there was no reason whatsoever to disrupt his life
his family's life to replace him with another person who could not improve on
Leach's nearly perfect performances. To me, it was cronyism at its finest . . .

-----

So, it's personal?

Lonestar
08-18-2009, 12:28 PM
Its not just change Chaz. The Cutler thing, the Trade of next years #1, the Paxton thing.

McD has done some bold things. He needs to show results sooner rather than later.



sooner than when.. for Christs sake it was ONE count it ONE exhibition game..

after installing one of the if not most complex offenses in the league, changing out about 60% of the staff and almost all of the coaches..

a total rebuild of our pathetic defense

are your expectations just a little high?

topscribe
08-18-2009, 12:30 PM
So, it's personal?

To Leach it was, trust me. He might have been only a snapper in the context of
the team, but he is just as much a person as any superstar there. His life, his
family, everything was disrupted over all this, and for what?

If it really improved the team, then yeah . . . but it looked like a "just because"
move to me. I became temporarily upset over a few things the FO did along the
way, but I would later see the reasoning behind it. But I still don't get the
Paxton/Leach deal . . .

-----

Lonestar
08-18-2009, 12:31 PM
Shanny earned the right to be given benifit of the doubt.

yep he did a decade ago and since has not done much since but shown a steady decline in the player personnel and coaching staff..

still think he does..

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 12:32 PM
I'm not saying anyone is a bad or good fan. But none of us have the credentials to be NFL coaches. So any of us questioning a player move by someone who is better suited to make that decision seems a little extreme.


I'll say this much right now. NEVER, during the years I've been watching, scouting and reviewing football at different levels have I EVER heard anyone ever complain about the comings and goings of long snappers.

The fact those complaints happened here tell me that it's not about Paxton or the team..it's about McD and the ease and preference to dislike him for soing something that some people are incapable of understanding

fair enough. I have no doubt that McD forgot more about football last night then I have ever known.

As far as getting rid of a fan/player favorite for an equal player for more $ how is that not open to the very least a hearty debate on Bronco forums :)

Come on man surely you dont have a problem with the fan base questioning the new guy shipping out their star up and coming qb.........right????

Lonestar
08-18-2009, 12:38 PM
Actually, Coach, the Paxton deal pissed me off more than anything. True, it's
no big deal from the standpoint of the team and it's W-L record, but Leach
had actually drawn attention to himself over the years with his superbly
consistent snapping, so there was no reason whatsoever to disrupt his life
his family's life to replace him with another person who could not improve on
Leach's nearly perfect performances. To me, it was cronyism at its finest . . .

-----



yet hearing from the punter, and holders when he asked them where they like the ball placed they told him and he has hit the same mark each time.. something Leach did not do every time.. As you know I was a VERY BIG fan of his while he was here and very vocal when Paxton was signed..

I also noticed NUMBER 66 down field ready to make tackles on the punting team .. but each time it was a ball waiting to be downed with nary a 49er in sight..

Was it cronyism up front YEP but so far it has paid off in spades..

Kaylore
08-18-2009, 12:40 PM
Thats all great and all but in the end he still made the mistakes and thats worriesome. Hopefully he gets better.

One week into preseason him making mistakes in a new system with new receivers (for him) to throw to is worrisome? You're not going to like this year. It takes a QB a good three years to really learn an offensive system. Orton is still learning and needs to develop chemistry with this team's receivers. There will be more mistakes from this team from all positions. Unfortunately patience is required.

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 12:41 PM
One week into preseason him making mistakes in a new system with new receivers (for him) to throw to is worrisome? You're not going to like this year. It takes a QB a good three years to really learn an offensive system. Orton is still learning and needs to develop chemistry with this team's receivers. There will be more mistakes from this team from all positions. Unfortunately patience is required.

Khan

Pull up a chair and post more around here :beer:

Kaylore
08-18-2009, 12:42 PM
That is where we simply dont agree. I believe it is more then ok to question the team at any time and point. It does not make one a good fan nor a bad fan.

Of course that's you're right to do so. Fans can what they want. But it's also why you aren't calling the shots as an owner.

Lonestar
08-18-2009, 12:42 PM
One week into preseason him making mistakes in a new system with new receivers (for him) to throw to is worrisome? You're not going to like this year. It takes a QB a good three years to really learn an offensive system. Orton is still learning and needs to develop chemistry with this team's receivers. There will be more mistakes from this team from all positions. Unfortunately patience is required.

Perhaps why Josh was so interested in getting Cassell here.. Knowing that he could open it up as soon as the rest of the team was ready for it.. as the QB would already know it..

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 12:44 PM
Of course that's you're right to do so. Fans can what they want. But it's also why you aren't calling the shots as an owner.

Actually its because I dont have the money to buy a franchise....but your point is fair enough

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 12:49 PM
yet hearing from the punter, and holders when he asked them where they like the ball placed they told him and he has hit the same mark each time.. something Leach did not do every time.. As you know I was a VERY BIG fan of his while he was here and very vocal when Paxton was signed..

I also noticed NUMBER 66 down field ready to make tackles on the punting team .. but each time it was a ball waiting to be downed with nary a 49er in sight..

Was it cronyism up front YEP but so far it has paid off in spades..

This is the point I was going to make. I cant say I ever heard ST players rave about Leach in the past. That's not to say he wasnt adequate, but maybe...just maybe there are things that Paxton is better at than Leach that the team will benefit from.

Kaylore
08-18-2009, 12:52 PM
Khan

Pull up a chair and post more around here :beer:

Yeah I'm pretty much done with the Mane. I'm tired of all the negative. I'm tired of the site crashing and then when it finally comes back on all I have to read is a bunch of people pissing and moaning (and you're guilty of this too) about the Broncos before the team has even sniffed the regular season, and revisionist history about how "Shanahan was rebuilding and was going to fix the defense this offseason and we'd be in the Super Bowl this year dewd!!!!!!11!!"

The fact is we were crappy last year and Shanahan had lost "it". Sixteenth in scoring (out of thirty teams that's just below average), bottom of the league in points allowed, bottom of the league in takeaways, top of the league in giveaways in the redzone, bottom of the league in special teams for basically ten years, and the stank cherry on top of the pile of manure is we go down in history as the first team to blow a three game division lead with three games to go. And people on the Mane act like we just blew up a Super Bowl team. We were one of the Chiefs' two wins last year. We lost AT HOME to garbage Oakland, Buffalo and Jacksonville. We SUCKED. It was time to move on.

Anyway message board's aren't as much fun for me anymore so I'm going to slowly wean myself off of them. I like the Broncos, I like watching sports (Go Rockies/Nuggets!) and I like talking about them. But I don't like hearing a bunch of morons tell each other how crappy our team is and how awesome things were with Shanahan and then question every move McDaniels makes down to the type of toilet paper he uses (OMG! Shanahan wipes with his right hand! No wonder Cutler left! This team SUCKS!):rolleyes:

So I'm taking a break. I'm newly married and have better things to spend my time doing than argue with a bunch of whiners.:coffee:

topscribe
08-18-2009, 12:55 PM
Yeah I'm pretty much done with the Mane. I'm tired of all the negative. I'm tired of the site crashing and then when it finally comes back on all I have to read is a bunch of people pissing and moaning (and you're guilty of this too) about the Broncos before the team has even sniffed the regular season, and revisionist history about how "Shanahan was rebuilding and was going to fix the defense this offseason and we'd be in the Super Bowl this year dewd!!!!!!11!!"

The fact is we were crappy last year and Shanahan had lost "it". Sixteenth in scoring (out of thirty teams that's just below average), bottom of the league in points allowed, bottom of the league in takeaways, top of the league in giveaways in the redzone, bottom of the league in special teams for basically ten years, and the stank cherry on top of the pile of manure is we go down in history as the first team to blow a three game division lead with three games to go. And people on the Mane act like we just blew up a Super Bowl team. We were one of the Chiefs' two wins last year. We lost AT HOME to garbage Oakland, Buffalo and Jacksonville. We SUCKED. It was time to move on.

Anyway message board's aren't as much fun for me anymore so I'm going to slowly wean myself off of them. I like the Broncos, I like watching sports (Go Rockies/Nuggets!) and I like talking about them. But I don't like hearing a bunch of morons tell each other how crappy our team is and how awesome things were with Shanahan and then question every move McDaniels makes down to the type of toilet paper he uses (OMG! Shanahan wipes with his right hand! No wonder Cutler left! This team SUCKS!):rolleyes:

So I'm taking a break. I'm newly married and have better things to spend my time doing than argue with a bunch of whiners.:coffee:

Glad to see you here, Khan.

But just fair warning: we have all types here, too. :D

P.S. Congrats on the nuptials! http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 12:58 PM
Yeah I'm pretty much done with the Mane. I'm tired of all the negative. I'm tired of the site crashing and then when it finally comes back on all I have to read is a bunch of people pissing and moaning (and you're guilty of this too) about the Broncos before the team has even sniffed the regular season, and revisionist history about how "Shanahan was rebuilding and was going to fix the defense this offseason and we'd be in the Super Bowl this year dewd!!!!!!11!!"

The fact is we were crappy last year and Shanahan had lost "it". Sixteenth in scoring (out of thirty teams that's just below average), bottom of the league in points allowed, bottom of the league in takeaways, top of the league in giveaways in the redzone, bottom of the league in special teams for basically ten years, and the stank cherry on top of the pile of manure is we go down in history as the first team to blow a three game division lead with three games to go. And people on the Mane act like we just blew up a Super Bowl team. We were one of the Chiefs' two wins last year. We lost AT HOME to garbage Oakland, Buffalo and Jacksonville. We SUCKED. It was time to move on.

Anyway message board's aren't as much fun for me anymore so I'm going to slowly wean myself off of them. I like the Broncos, I like watching sports (Go Rockies/Nuggets!) and I like talking about them. But I don't like hearing a bunch of morons tell each other how crappy our team is and how awesome things were with Shanahan and then question every move McDaniels makes down to the type of toilet paper he uses (OMG! Shanahan wipes with his right hand! No wonder Cutler left! This team SUCKS!):rolleyes:

So I'm taking a break. I'm newly married and have better things to spend my time doing than argue with a bunch of whiners.:coffee:

Sorry to see you go and we have known each other for along time so I hate to say this. It sounds more like you are tired of people having an opinon other then yours. I know what you are saying about the Mane it has gotten out of control lately.

You might take a look here as it is much more civil as far as convo's go.

Kaylore
08-18-2009, 01:09 PM
Sorry to see you go and we have known each other for along time so I hate to say this. It sounds more like you are tired of people having an opinon other then yours. I know what you are saying about the Mane it has gotten out of control lately.


Yeah because since 2004 everyone has agreed with me and finally someone had the balls to say something else and I'm done! Please.

I just don't like negativity and there is too much of it. I especially can't stand people negative about a problem that doesn't exist yet. It's like in politics all the people that complain the world is ending and wring their hands about it and tell us how doomed we are. I hate that. Nothing turns me off more than continued negativity. That's pretty much what the Mane is now: Whine, piss and moan.

And I'm not the only one. That guy's thread "you guys are no fun" summed up my feelings perfectly. It's not fun. And if it's not fun, why am I wasting my time there?

Anyway, I'm done hijacking this thread.

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 01:13 PM
Yeah because since 2004 everyone has agreed with me and finally someone had the balls to say something else and I'm done! Please.

I just don't like negativity and there is too much of it. I especially can't stand people negative about a problem that doesn't exist yet. It's like in politics all the people that complain the world is ending and wring their hands about it and tell us how doomed we are. I hate that. Nothing turns me off more than continued negativity. That's pretty much what the Mane is now: Whine, piss and moan.

And I'm not the only one. That guy's thread "you guys are no fun" summed up my feelings perfectly. It's not fun. And if it's not fun, why am I wasting my time there?

Anyway, I'm done hijacking this thread.

I agree if you dont like it you should not spend time doing it.

I just get tired of some of you pissing down your leg because some dont swallow the orange flavored PR that is being served. I'm pretty sure the point of these boards is to discuss the pros/cons of the team and its moves/direction no?

Would you really rather everyone just followed along like good little sheep? Would that make it more "fun" for you.

Whatever you decide to do I've enjoyed knowing you and hope to see you around again. Maybe at the OF1 who knows.

Lonestar
08-18-2009, 01:13 PM
This is the point I was going to make. I cant say I ever heard ST players rave about Leach in the past. That's not to say he wasnt adequate, but maybe...just maybe there are things that Paxton is better at than Leach that the team will benefit from.


when a snapper says where do you want the ball so you can get the kick off sooner and better and then puts it there every time..

well that is making the chances of a bad snap losing a game..

Now I really like Mike Leach and thought he was special..

but when I saw 66 down field just like Mike was in the last game the other comments I had heard about Paxton were just gravy..

I wish Mike all the best in his career and unfortunately moving is a way of life in the NFL..

Lonestar
08-18-2009, 01:19 PM
Yeah because since 2004 everyone has agreed with me and finally someone had the balls to say something else and I'm done! Please.

I just don't like negativity and there is too much of it. I especially can't stand people negative about a problem that doesn't exist yet. It's like in politics all the people that complain the world is ending and wring their hands about it and tell us how doomed we are. I hate that. Nothing turns me off more than continued negativity. That's pretty much what the Mane is now: Whine, piss and moan.

And I'm not the only one. That guy's thread "you guys are no fun" summed up my feelings perfectly. It's not fun. And if it's not fun, why am I wasting my time there?

Anyway, I'm done hijacking this thread.


welcome to the fray here we tend to be a bit more civil and you will get a lot more respect here for your views than one might think..

I also have been a critic of mike and the sliding we have done since 1998-2000.. lots of folks think he walked on water and perhaps as an OC he did, but there is more to football than offense and that he did not get..


welcome home spend as much time as you can..

topscribe
08-18-2009, 01:24 PM
yet hearing from the punter, and holders when he asked them where they like the ball placed they told him and he has hit the same mark each time.. something Leach did not do every time.. As you know I was a VERY BIG fan of his while he was here and very vocal when Paxton was signed..

I also noticed NUMBER 66 down field ready to make tackles on the punting team .. but each time it was a ball waiting to be downed with nary a 49er in sight..

Was it cronyism up front YEP but so far it has paid off in spades..


This is the point I was going to make. I cant say I ever heard ST players rave about Leach in the past. That's not to say he wasnt adequate, but maybe...just maybe there are things that Paxton is better at than Leach that the team will benefit from.


when a snapper says where do you want the ball so you can get the kick off sooner and better and then puts it there every time..

well that is making the chances of a bad snap losing a game..

Now I really like Mike Leach and thought he was special..

but when I saw 66 down field just like Mike was in the last game the other comments I had heard about Paxton were just gravy..

I wish Mike all the best in his career and unfortunately moving is a way of life in the NFL..

Thanks, you two, for helping me to feel better about it . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

Lonestar
08-18-2009, 01:29 PM
Thanks, you two, for helping me to feel better about it . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----


actually I was trying to beat you up for that earlier post..:laugh:


I have liked what I have seen from this kid and for that matter almost everything Josh has done.. initially I was pissed about this "trade" of snappers but, overall I think this will be a HUGE plus for us this year..

We get a guy that knows the system and can "assistant coach" when in the huddle or on the side lines.. and he is Supposedly the best LS in the league..

Kaylore
08-18-2009, 01:31 PM
I agree if you dont like it you should not spend time doing it.

I just get tired of some of you pissing down your leg because some dont swallow the orange flavored PR that is being served. I'm pretty sure the point of these boards is to discuss the pros/cons of the team and its moves/direction no?

Would you really rather everyone just followed along like good little sheep? Would that make it more "fun" for you.

Whatever you decide to do I've enjoyed knowing you and hope to see you around again. Maybe at the OF1 who knows.

I'll just say this. If this was the happening at the end of a McDaniels coached 2-14 season OR we won the Super Bowl last year and then Bowlen made these moves then I'd understand the displeasure. The fact is we sucked last year and the season this year hasn't been played. I don't want people to be sheep. I just wish people would watch maybe a few real games before declaring everything a failure. That's complete idiocy. You want to disagree, fine. But how so many people can be emotionally invested in their opinion when the product hasn't been unveiled is beyond me.

I understand it's partly fear because there was always that "hope" with Shanahan since he's been there, and for the most part, while we never made any noise in the playoffs we weren't embarrassing until the last three years. That still doesn't explain the ridiculous pessimism (or frankly the optimism) that is being spewed. I'm a "show me" guy. I've heard promises about the team from one guy for ten years and we have little to show for it. I want to give this guy a chance but I'm going to wait until how this team looks at the end of the year before I get my pitchfork out, thank you very much.

And I hope you don't think my decision is reflection on what I think of you or any of the other friends I have over there as a person. This is a personal decision to remove things that aren't fun and add more things that are into my life. I still "like" people there and the Mane will march right on without me. They are growing every day and I'm not the reason for that. I just think it's time I do things that are more positive.

Requiem / The Dagda
08-18-2009, 01:33 PM
Positive stuff? First job is sitting down and taking a seat right next to me Kaylore. Welcome.

Plus, do you think Orton is one and done here, Kaylore?

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 01:34 PM
I'll just say this. If this was the happening at the end of a McDaniels coached 2-14 season OR we won the Super Bowl last year and then Bowlen made these moves then I'd understand the displeasure. The fact is we sucked last year and the season this year hasn't been played. I don't want people to be sheep. I just wish people would watch maybe a few real games before declaring everything a failure. That's complete idiocy. You want to disagree, fine. But how so many people can be emotionally invested in their opinion when the product hasn't been unveiled is beyond me.

I understand it's partly fear because there was always that "hope" with Shanahan since he's been there, and for the most part, while we never made any noise in the playoffs we weren't embarrassing until the last three years. That still doesn't explain the ridiculous pessimism (or frankly the optimism) that is being spewed. I'm a "show me" guy. I've heard promises about the team from one guy for ten years and we have little to show for it. I want to give this guy a chance but I'm going to wait until how this team looks at the end of the year before I get my pitchfork out, thank you very much.

And I hope you don't think my decision is reflection on what I think of you or any of the other friends I have over there as a person. This is a personal decision to remove things that aren't fun and add more things that are into my life. I still "like" people there and the Mane will march right on without me. They are growing every day and I'm not the reason for that. I just think it's time I do things that are more positive.

I've always respected your opinon and its been great knowing you. The OM is losing a great poster and an even greater person. Regardless of our disagreement I hate to see you go.

Maybe you just need a break then you can come back for the Khan reenergized tour v.2 :beer:

CoachChaz
08-18-2009, 01:37 PM
I'll just say this. If this was the happening at the end of a McDaniels coached 2-14 season OR we won the Super Bowl last year and then Bowlen made these moves then I'd understand the displeasure. The fact is we sucked last year and the season this year hasn't been played. I don't want people to be sheep. I just wish people would watch maybe a few real games before declaring everything a failure. That's complete idiocy. You want to disagree, fine. But how so many people can be emotionally invested in their opinion when the product hasn't been unveiled is beyond me.

I understand it's partly fear because there was always that "hope" with Shanahan since he's been there, and for the most part, while we never made any noise in the playoffs we weren't embarrassing until the last three years. That still doesn't explain the ridiculous pessimism (or frankly the optimism) that is being spewed. I'm a "show me" guy. I've heard promises about the team from one guy for ten years and we have little to show for it. I want to give this guy a chance but I'm going to wait until how this team looks at the end of the year before I get my pitchfork out, thank you very much.

And I hope you don't think my decision is reflection on what I think of you or any of the other friends I have over there as a person. This is a personal decision to remove things that aren't fun and add more things that are into my life. I still "like" people there and the Mane will march right on without me. They are growing every day and I'm not the reason for that. I just think it's time I do things that are more positive.

The other thing we have to take into consideration is that it's not like Josh had a plethera of choices when it came to the QB. Cutler wanted out...that was going to happen regardless, so at that point, they had to take the best offer. I'm sure if NE offered Brady and picks, we'd have gone that route, but as far as a combination of QB and draft picks...thgis was obviously our best option.

We can blame McD all we want for entertaining offers to improve the team and having a team first philosphy, but at the end of the day, we have Orton BECAUSE of Cutler...not INSTEAD of him

Kaylore
08-18-2009, 01:44 PM
Positive stuff? First job is sitting down and taking a seat right next to me Kaylore. Welcome.

Plus, do you think Orton is one and done here, Kaylore?

Thanks for getting things back on topic. To answer your question, I frankly don't know. I have absolutely no idea how this team will look. I expect some growing pains and another offseason of turnover will be needed to make the team look like it's "supposed to" but Orton could go either way. I think with our line and our receivers there is a good shot he can have a career year (for him). I suppose unless he absolutely bombs they'll keep him here until someone better comes along. We'll have to see how he does. I do know he's better than he played against the Niners.

GEM
08-18-2009, 01:46 PM
Look you mothertruckers....the guy we have sitting in the head coaches office right now coordinated the best offense this league has ever seen. In every aspect, except running. He didn't have a Moreno. He took a guy who hasn't been off the bench since high school and plugged him into said offense and there wasn't a huge drop off. You may not like it now, but you don't know what it will be in the future. You've stuck around while our defense was run into the absolute dumps filled with guys that shouldn't even have played in arena football. Just think of it this way...Shanny wouldn't have changed anything in the offseason, except maybe pull in a few more scrubs on defense and our continued demise would be what we are looking forward to. We would continue to dwindle in the W-L columns, we would continue to get our asses handed to us by SD. If you're good with that, just because Shanny was leading us, you're beyond help.

Sit back, give it a rest, let things fall where they might, but quit bitching about ish that you have no friggen clue how it's going to turn out. If you like drowning in it, put your mouth at least below level so we don't have to hear ya. :D

topscribe
08-18-2009, 01:49 PM
Look you mothertruckers....the guy we have sitting in the head coaches office right now coordinated the best offense this league has ever seen. In every aspect, except running. He didn't have a Moreno. He took a guy who hasn't been off the bench since high school and plugged him into said offense and there wasn't a huge drop off. You may not like it now, but you don't know what it will be in the future. You've stuck around while our defense was run into the absolute dumps filled with guys that shouldn't even have played in arena football. Just think of it this way...Shanny wouldn't have changed anything in the offseason, except maybe pull in a few more scrubs on defense and our continued demise would be what we are looking forward to. We would continue to dwindle in the W-L columns, we would continue to get our asses handed to us by SD. If you're good with that, just because Shanny was leading us, you're beyond help.

Sit back, give it a rest, let things fall where they might, but quit bitching about ish that you have no friggen clue how it's going to turn out. If you like drowning in it, put your mouth at least below level so we don't have to hear ya. :D

Feisty one, ain'tcha? :couch:

-----

GEM
08-18-2009, 01:56 PM
Feisty one, ain'tcha? :couch:

-----

Always. :D

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 02:52 PM
Look you mothertruckers....the guy we have sitting in the head coaches office right now coordinated the best offense this league has ever seen. In every aspect, except running. He didn't have a Moreno. He took a guy who hasn't been off the bench since high school and plugged him into said offense and there wasn't a huge drop off. You may not like it now, but you don't know what it will be in the future. You've stuck around while our defense was run into the absolute dumps filled with guys that shouldn't even have played in arena football. Just think of it this way...Shanny wouldn't have changed anything in the offseason, except maybe pull in a few more scrubs on defense and our continued demise would be what we are looking forward to. We would continue to dwindle in the W-L columns, we would continue to get our asses handed to us by SD. If you're good with that, just because Shanny was leading us, you're beyond help.

Sit back, give it a rest, let things fall where they might, but quit bitching about ish that you have no friggen clue how it's going to turn out. If you like drowning in it, put your mouth at least below level so we don't have to hear ya. :D

:date:

Hello my name is Hotrod :kiss:

T.K.O.
08-18-2009, 03:20 PM
Why should we? This whole Orton/Cutler pick trade thing isnt a normal blunder. It was a flat out retarded ordeal.

Unfortunatley Orton will get the majority of the negativity though but... McDaniels/Bowlen deserves to be heckled more because its their fault.

If it ends up working out in the end, I will swallow my pride, and buy merchandise. If it doesnt, they deserve all the criticisim, boos, etc... they get.

They rolled the dice.

Say what you want about Cutler being a bitch, but we still held his contract for a couple years.

astonishing that some people refuse to put ANY of the blame on the guy who demanded a trade and refused to talk to the owner about moving forward.....absolutely astonishing.
(and yes you named 3 people in your post that deserve to be heckled,none of which are as much at fault than cutler):confused:

Thnikkaman
08-18-2009, 03:46 PM
:date:

Hello my name is Hotrod :kiss:

Would you send me the same emoticons if I was female? In other words, is this really necessary here?

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 03:51 PM
Would you send me the same emoticons if I was female? In other words, is this really necessary here?



:date:

Hello my name is Hotrod :kiss:

topscribe
08-18-2009, 04:21 PM
:date:

Hello my name is Hotrod :kiss:

Don't tell me we have a bi on our hands . . . :look:

-----

BroncoJoe
08-18-2009, 04:27 PM
Orton's bounce-back ability is already in full display at Dove Valley. On Sunday, at the team's first practice following the game, he worked diligently to correct his mistakes -- zeroing in on his miscues during a series of walkthroughs. On Monday morning, when the club returned to full pads, Orton looked sharp throughout 11-on-11s, drawing praise from fans after connecting on a pair of 40-plus yard bombs to Eddie Royal and Jabar Gaffney.

Huh.

Dortoh
08-18-2009, 04:27 PM
Don't tell me we have a bi on our hands . . . :look:

-----


I deserved that :lol:

broncohead
08-18-2009, 04:45 PM
astonishing that some people refuse to put ANY of the blame on the guy who demanded a trade and refused to talk to the owner about moving forward.....absolutely astonishing.
(and yes you named 3 people in your post that deserve to be heckled,none of which are as much at fault than cutler):confused:

In the end it's the coaches job to get the Ws. Not the QBs. Also when did players get the power to make trades?

BroncoJoe
08-18-2009, 05:10 PM
In the end it's the coaches job to get the Ws. Not the QBs. Also when did players get the power to make trades?

I think you're missing his point.

claymore
08-18-2009, 05:31 PM
Says who? Teams trade #1's all the time...doesnt immediately define failure. if A. Smith truly is first round talent and shows it on the field, then what's the problem? What if we kept it and ended up with anoth Jarvis Moss next year? No one can say jack shit about that trade for a few years...but I understand it's easy to add it to the miniscule arsenal of things to flame McD for.

Paxton. WHO CARES? Even if he is only "as good" as his predecessor, does it really matter? Is it our money that was spent on him? Was it a mega-million dollar contract? Seriously...complaining about signing a long snapper is as ridiculous as complaining about trading a first round pick for a first round talented player.

The Cutler thing...again...that's all left up to speculation and assumption.

So, I retort...it's easy to take these things and blame it all on the new guy. As far as assumptions go, I'll give you one...NO ONE would be doing this complaining and asking for the coaches head if Shanny had done all this.

If Smith was held in that high of regard, we could have taken him with our original 2nd, or our #18 overall pick. Teams dont trade next years first for today's second. It was done in panic time, and we couldnt even dictate which #1 it was we were giving them.

As for shanny, we needed new blood, i was all for it. Ive always been against losing star players. Especially over ego's .