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speardog
11-10-2007, 07:27 AM
Stole from another site.

Shanny get DEs to fit Bates mold

"In the current situation, we felt like we were better with the younger players that we do have," Shanahan said [announcing cutting Simeon Rice]. "They gave us the best chance to win. That's the direction (in which) we're going."

Step right up, newcomers. Tuesday signees Paul Carrington and Larry Birdine are each 24 years old, while fellow arrival Josh Mallard -- a defensive end in the past who is listed as a third-team tackle -- is 28.

While Birdine came to Denver from the Tennessee Titans' practice squad, both Carrington and Mallard played in Atlanta last year under Bill Johnson, the Broncos' defensive-line coach who handled similar duties in Atlanta a year ago.

"They were two players that we knew would fit into what we do and had played; we've got numbers on the books," Johnson said. "They're good up-and-coming young players and they've got a lot left in front of them. ... We just felt like they're good prospects to get into the program and see where they're at."

In 2006, Atlanta ranked ninth in the league in rush defense, allowing 103.6 yards per game, while logging 37 sacks, 14th in the league. The Falcons' sack total came in spite of losing starting defensive ends Patrick Kerney and John Abraham for a combined 15 games.

"You know, we had a pretty representable defense," Johnson said. "We were eighth in the league in rushing and we had our share of sacks. (Carrington and Mallard) fit right in and did a good job.

"Josh came in as a replacement player, and we signed Paul as a rookie free agent, (so) he had to play before his time."

Indeed, Carrington had more sacks last season (three) than Rice has amassed in the last two seasons (two). His familiarity with Johnson ought to help the rangy 6-foot-7, 260-pounder become acclimated rapidly.

"I know what he looks for as a coach -- what he expects of his players," Carrington said. "It's good to already know that. The main thing is just to learn the system now and learn the way the head coach and defensive coordinator want things done. I think it's a great advantage for me coming in."

"I knew it was time to go get him because somebody else was going to get him and put him back on their roster," Johnson said. "There's no doubt that some teams had him on their radar. I thought the timing was good and the personnel people knew it was time -- unfortunately the injury (to Moss) made us able to bring him and shuffle some things up."

Carrington had been out of work since the start of the regular season. Mallard was only sidelined three and a half weeks, as the Falcons waived him on Oct. 13.

"I definitely have an opportunity," Mallard said. "The question is, 'Can I execute?' The answer is, 'Yes I can.'"

At the very least, their position coach has no qualms about sending them into action rapidly -- which he might need to do given the release of Rice and the loss of Moss.

" I'm glad they're here. I'm comfortable with them for the fact that I've played and won games with them."

Josh Mallard

98 Josh Mallard, Defensive Tackle

Height: 6' 2"
Weight: 259 lbs.
College: Georgia
Born: in Savannah, Ga.
Acquired: Free Agent, 2007
Pro Year: 3rd
Year with Broncos: 1st
NFL Games Played/Started: 30/1
Postseason: /

MALLARD AT A GLANCE:

* A third-year defensive lineman who joined the Broncos as a free agent on Nov. 6, 2007.
* Played three games with Atlanta earlier in the season, but did not record any stats.
* Saw action in 13 games with Indianapolis as a rookie, totaling 20 tackles, one sack, three fumble recoveries and two passes defensed.
* Notched 12 tackles, two sacks, two blocked punts and two passes defensed with Amsterdam during the 2005 NFL Europe season.
* Selected by Indianapolis in the seventh round (220th overall) of the 2002 NFL Draft.

CAREER TRANSACTIONS: Signed by Indianapolis as a draft choice 7/15/02; Waived by Indianapolis 8/31/03; Signed by Cleveland 12/10/03; Waived by Cleveland 12/12/03; Signed by Miami 2/4/04; Waived by Miami 8/30/04; Signed by Indianapolis (future contract) 1/13/05; Waived by Indianapolis 9/3/05; Signed by Atlanta (future contract) 1/4/06; Waived by Atlanta 9/2/06; Signed by Atlanta 9/11/06; Waived by Atlanta 10/13/07; Signed by Denver 11/6/07.

2006: Mallard recorded eight tackles (7 solo), including four sacks (23 yds.), four forced fumbles, one fumble recovery and defensed two passes in 14 games (1 start) for Atlanta for future Broncos Defensive Line Coach Bill Johnson. Mallard recorded his first sack of the season vs. Pit. (10/22) when he dropped QB Ben Roethlisberger for a 5-yard loss, forcing a field goal. Posted one sack in three consecutive games as he recorded a sack at Det. (11/5), vs. Cle. (11/12) and at Bal. (11/19). His 5-yard sack of Lions QB Jon Kitna forced a fumble. He dropped Browns signal-caller Charlie Frye for a loss of eight yards, forcing a punt in the fourth quarter.

2005: Mallard spent the season out of football after competing in NFL Europe with the Amsterdam Admirals where he registered 12 tackles, two sacks, two blocked punts and two passes defensed.

2004: Mallard spent the entire season out of football after competing in training camp with the Miami Dolphins. He was waived by the Dolphins on Aug. 30.

2003: Mallard spent training camp with Indianapolis, but was waived on Aug. 31. He was out of football until Cleveland signed him on Dec. 10. He was out of football after the Browns waived him on Dec. 12.

2002: Selected by Indianapolis in the seventh round (220th overall) of the 2002 NFL Draft, Mallard played in 13 games (0 starts) for the Colts. He registered 20 tackles (15 solo), including a sack (7 yds.), and three fumble recoveries. He was declared inactive for the Colts postseason contest at NYJ (1/4). Mallard recorded two tackles in his pro debut at Jac. (9/8). He recorded the first sack of his pro career when he dropped QB Chad Hutchinson for a 7-yard loss vs. Dal. (11/17). He also recovered two fumbles, including one that set up a touchdown. He added three solo tackles at Was. (10/27) and matched it vs. Jac. (12/29). He also recovered a fumble at Phi. (11/10).

COLLEGE: Mallard played in 43 games (7 starts), totaling 74 tackles (50 solo), 18 sacks, five forced fumbles and three passes defensed. He finished his career fifth on the Bulldogs' all-time sacks list. As a senior, Mallard played in 11 games (1 start) posted 20 tackles (12 solo), including five sacks, despite being limited by a knee injury. As a junior, Mallard was credited with 28 tackles (20 solo), including three sacks, a forced fumble and two passes defensed in 11 games (6 starts). Against Auburn, Mallard had 10 tackles and two quarterback pressures. As a sophomore reserve lineman, Mallard played in 11 games (0 starts) and notched 12 tackles (8 solo), two forced fumbles and four sacks. He played in 10 games as a redshirt freshman and made 14 tackles (10 solo), including six sacks, and two forced fumbles.

Paul Carrington

90 Paul Carrington, Defensive End

Height: 6' 7"
Weight: 260 lbs.
College: Central Florida
Born: in Guyton, Ga.
Acquired: Free Agent, 2007
Pro Year: 2nd
Year with Broncos: 1st
NFL Games Played/Started: 15/2
Postseason: /

CARRINGTON AT A GLANCE:

* A second-year defensive end who joined the Broncos as a free agent on Nov. 6, 2007.
* Played in 15 games (2 starts) for Atlanta as a rookie under current Broncos defensive line coach Bill Johnson, totaling 33 tackles (23 solo), including three sacks (18 yds.), a pass defensed and a forced fumble.
* Compiled 46 tackles, nine sacks, two fumble recoveries, one forced fumble and an interception as a senior at Central Florida.
* Accrued 70 tackles to earn recognition as a first-team all-region selection at Effingham County High School.
* Entered the NFL as a college free agent with Atlanta on May 1, 2006.

CAREER TRANSACTIONS: Signed with Atlanta as a college free agent 5/1/06; Waived by Atlanta 9/1/07; Signed by Denver 11/6/07.

2006: Entered the NFL with Atlanta as a college free agent, Carrington played in 15 games (2 starts) and registered 33 tackles (23 solo), including three sacks (18 yds.), one forced fumble and two passes defensed while also posting a pair of special-teams stops. Carrington was inactive for the season opener at Car. (9/10) before making two tackles in his pro debut vs. T.B. (9/17). He added two tackles vs. Ar. (10/1) before recording five stops, including a sack and a forced fumble vs. Cle. (11/12). On the last play of the first half, Carrington stripped QB Charlie Frye for a sack (0 yds.), allowing Rod Coleman to recover for the Falcons. Carrington made his first pro start the next week at Bal. (11/19) and responded with six tackles and a sack. In the third quarter, Carrington dropped QB Steve McNair for a 6-yard loss. He added his third sack of the season at Was. (12/3) when he corralled QB Jason Campbell for a 13-yard loss in the fourth quarter. Two weeks later, he made five tackles and batted down a pass vs. Dal. (12/16). He posted a career-high seven tackles in his second career start vs. Car. (12/24).

COLLEGE: Carrington recorded 46 tackles, nine sacks, two fumble recoveries, one forced fumble and an interception (20 yds.) as a senior at Central Florida. In his junior season, he started seven of 11 games for the Golden Knights and registered 30 tackles, four sacks, three passes defensed, one fumble recovery, one forced fumble and an interception.

Larry Birdine

Height: 6' 4"
Weight: 265 lbs.
College: Oklahoma
Born: in Altus, Okla.
Acquired: Practice Squad Signee (Tennessee), 2007
Pro Year: R
Year with Broncos: 1
NFL Games Played/Started: 0/0
Postseason: 0/0

BIRDINE AT A GLANCE:

* A rookie defensive end who has spent his rookie season on Tennessee's practice squad after entering the NFL as a college free agent with Green Bay on May 4, 2007.
* Earned four letters at the University of Oklahoma where he played in two BCS national championship games (2003 and 04).
* Totaled 103 tackles (61 solo), including 14.5 sacks, four forced fumbles, one fumble recovery and an interception among seven passes defensed in 41 games (14 starts) for the Sooners.
* Half-brother, Jason Gildon, played 11 seasons in the NFL and was selected to three Pro Bowls.

speardog
11-10-2007, 07:28 AM
You really have to like the size and weight of these guys. It's what Bates wants in his DEs. Maybe one of these guys is a player.

SR
11-10-2007, 08:02 AM
So we went from picking up the Browns' trash to picking up the Falcons' trash? Why the hell does Shanahan keep signing these nobody players and expecting them to perform? Pisses me off.

Lorcust
11-10-2007, 08:45 AM
So we went from picking up the Browns' trash to picking up the Falcons' trash? Why the hell does Shanahan keep signing these nobody players and expecting them to perform? Pisses me off.

They're not expected to start, they're expected to be rotational at best. Crowder, Moss, Dumervil... those are our future guys.

Good teams need solid rotational and role players, with the possibility of those players stepping up when their starters go down.

The Browncos were expected to... and did start. Completely different.

silkamilkamonico
11-10-2007, 11:42 AM
You really have to like the size and weight of these guys. It's what Bates wants in his DEs. Maybe one of these guys is a player.

If that's the case, it makes you wonder what the future holds for guys like Dumervil and Moss. They aren't what Bates wants in his DE.

topscribe
11-10-2007, 12:26 PM
Somewhere I read that one of these guys has stood out, according to Bates
or Johnson (I don't remember which coach said that now). I wonder which one
they were talking about.

Guess we'll find out by who is added to the final 45 tomorrow.

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topscribe
11-10-2007, 12:29 PM
If that's the case, it makes you wonder what the future holds for guys like Dumervil and Moss. They aren't what Bates wants in his DE.

Well, the way he has rotated the players, I think he's looking at depth. If he
can amass four quality rushing DEs instead of two, then he can keep them
fresher, resulting in greater pressure, especally late in games. I dunno. Does
that make sense?

Actually, I just noticed that Lorcust said essentially the same thing.

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DenBronx
11-10-2007, 01:23 PM
mallards been waived 6 times. i can see him being waived a 7th in the near future.

saying that, i hope ekuban comes back healthy next year. moss, dum, crowder and ekuban should be a good rotation.

Lonestar
11-10-2007, 01:32 PM
If that's the case, it makes you wonder what the future holds for guys like Dumervil and Moss. They aren't what Bates wants in his DE.

Moss was dafted by Bates and I do not think any one can complain about the numbers the Dumervil is putting up if these guys beat him out that mean they are better than he is and frankly this DLINE needs better..

One thing that struck me was the one listed as a DT at 259 pounds Now I know they signed him as DE, but I'll bet money we see him occasionally at DT..

One has to wonder if there is any DT trash out there lying around?

Mikey has always been a trash picker on the DLine why would anyone think he would stop now.. Realistically he has picked two DLine folks on draft day IN 13 YEARS (not counting last year, where Bates had a huge say in the picks ) that have been worth a damn.

topscribe
11-10-2007, 01:33 PM
mallards been waived 6 times. i can see him being waived a 7th in the near future.

saying that, i hope ekuban comes back healthy next year. moss, dum, crowder and ekuban should be a good rotation.

Ekuban was a beast toward the end of the season last year.

Wow, I hated that he went down. I know the running game against the
Broncos would not be as successful, were he playing this year.

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ChampWJ
11-10-2007, 02:13 PM
I wonder when Shanahan will start making the decisions again, because I can't think of one player Bates has gotten that fits his "scheme" that has actually worked out yet. If Bates was any kind of a coach, he could get the guys currently on the roster to learn his scheme and quit worrying about if they "fit". Maybe we should be worrying about getting the players we have to actually start playing better instead of looking for more players that will take more time to teach. We don't need scrubs who have been cut from one of the worst teams in the NFL (and that's me being nice because I love the Falcons).

Lonestar
11-10-2007, 02:27 PM
I wonder when Shanahan will start making the decisions again, because I can't think of one player Bates has gotten that fits his "scheme" that has actually worked out yet. If Bates was any kind of a coach, he could get the guys currently on the roster to learn his scheme and quit worrying about if they "fit". Maybe we should be worrying about getting the players we have to actually start playing better instead of looking for more players that will take more time to teach. We don't need scrubs who have been cut from one of the worst teams in the NFL (and that's me being nice because I love the Falcons).


Besides Kennedy who was thrilled to get out of STL who has not worked out?

The three rookies. What did you expect of rookies?

Bet your one of the "we are going to the superbowlers" earlier this season before training camp also.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-10-2007, 02:27 PM
Birdine could develop into a nice RDE/LDE and a back-up player. Had he not had his biceps injury (and miscellaneous naggin' injuries) he could have been a lot better than he was at OU. It'd be nice to see him develop.

speardog
11-10-2007, 04:10 PM
So we went from picking up the Browns' trash to picking up the Falcons' trash? Why the hell does Shanahan keep signing these nobody players and expecting them to perform? Pisses me off.

They are young. No one knows how good they are going to be.

speardog
11-10-2007, 04:12 PM
No team not named the Pats or Colts is going to win the Superbowl this year.

I love the youth movement. People have been complaining about getting recycled DL for the last few years well, now Denver has a bunch of kids. It will take time. What they lack in experience they'll make up for in hustle. This unit could be very good in 2008.

77 Birdine, Larry DE 6' 4" 265 24 R Oklahoma PS(Ten)- '07
90 Carrington, Paul DE 6' 7" 260 24 2nd Central Florida FA -'07
92 Dumervil, Elvis DL 5' 11" 260 23 2nd Louisville D4b-'06
96 Crowder, Tim DE 6' 4" 275 22 R Texas D2-'07
60 Engelberger, John DE 6' 4" 260 31 8th Virginia Tech T (SF)-'05
94 Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 265 23 R Florida D1- '07
91 Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275 31 9th North Carolina T (Cle)-'05

underrated29
11-10-2007, 04:18 PM
you know what gets me with your post, is that elvis is 5'11 265 and that other new guy is 6'7 and 265. I know moss is 6'6 265 but he had that infection so i undersand why he isnt as heavy.

But my main amazement is elvis is a beast! the dude heeds 8 inches to a guy and still weighs the same! He is one solid man.

...or maybe all that extra weight is just in his arms.;)

topscribe
11-10-2007, 04:22 PM
you know what gets me with your post, is that elvis is 5'11 265 and that other new guy is 6'7 and 265. I know moss is 6'6 265 but he had that infection so i undersand why he isnt as heavy.

But my main amazement is elvis is a beast! the dude heeds 8 inches to a guy and still weighs the same! He is one solid man.

...or maybe all that extra weight is just in his arms.;)

No question, Elvis is ripped. And I haven't seen him get pushed around much
on the field, even by "bigger" guys, have you?

Moss, on the other hand, is thin as a pencil at 265. What that means to me is
that he could easily put on another 10-15 pounds, where he would be stronger
against the run. If he does that, then he has the tremendous talent that he
could be the starter among the bunch.

IMHO.

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NameUsedBefore
11-10-2007, 04:37 PM
While Birdine came to Denver from the Tennessee Titans' practice squad, both Carrington and Mallard played in Atlanta last year under Bill Johnson, the Broncos' defensive-line coach who handled similar duties in Atlanta a year ago.


This was talked about in another topic: not dogging the players or anything, but way too often Shanahan is bringing in players, it seems, because of an influence from one of the other coaches who've simply been around said player(s). It hasn't really worked yet ...

arapaho2
11-10-2007, 05:34 PM
Ekuban was a beast toward the end of the season last year.

Wow, I hated that he went down. I know the running game against the
Broncos would not be as successful, were he playing this year.

-----

to be honest top, i dont think that the play of the De's is the reason our rush defense sucks so much..and so i dont think that ekuban would fix that much


i guess im still the last one not buying that its the lack of skill in the De's that is limiting pressure...but i still believe its the lack of a interier push from the Dts that is the cause

i dont care if we had freeny, and allen....if all the qb has to do is step up into the pocket....we are still gonna fail in the pass rush

am i the only one to notice the havoc haynsworth is causeing both the run and pass offenses he faces by attacking and penetrateing as opposed to laying back and letting the play come to him like our DTs are forced to do

speardog
11-10-2007, 05:44 PM
to be honest top, i dont think that the play of the De's is the reason our rush defense sucks so much..and so i dont think that ekuban would fix that much


i guess im still the last one not buying that its the lack of skill in the De's that is limiting pressure...but i still believe its the lack of a interier push from the Dts that is the cause

i dont care if we had freeny, and allen....if all the qb has to do is step up into the pocket....we are still gonna fail in the pass rush

am i the only one to notice the havoc haynsworth is causeing both the run and pass offenses he faces by attacking and penetrateing as opposed to laying back and letting the play come to him like our DTs are forced to do


You're right. If the DTs were playing great the DEs would be less of an issue. Thomas will be good. SO Denver needs to spend a draft pick on a young Sam Adams. Frank Okam is the guy I want. Get another big, young, fat slob in there. Actually Denver should probably draft two of these guys next year.

TXBRONC
11-10-2007, 06:17 PM
You're right. If the DTs were playing great the DEs would be less of an issue. Thomas will be good. SO Denver needs to spend a draft pick on a young Sam Adams. Frank Okam is the guy I want. Get another big, young, fat slob in there. Actually Denver should probably draft two of these guys next year.

How do you know that Okam is slob? He just might be neat freak. :D

topscribe
11-10-2007, 06:40 PM
to be honest top, i dont think that the play of the De's is the reason our rush defense sucks so much..and so i dont think that ekuban would fix that much


i guess im still the last one not buying that its the lack of skill in the De's that is limiting pressure...but i still believe its the lack of a interier push from the Dts that is the cause

i dont care if we had freeny, and allen....if all the qb has to do is step up into the pocket....we are still gonna fail in the pass rush

am i the only one to notice the havoc haynsworth is causeing both the run and pass offenses he faces by attacking and penetrateing as opposed to laying back and letting the play come to him like our DTs are forced to do

I have to agree about the DTs. That is the Broncos' primary area of
weakness. Shoring up that position will probably make more of a difference
than anything else, both in run and pass defense.

However, I still believe Ekuban would have made a difference because he
was the only DE who was really good at run defense. He spent a lot of his
time in the other team's offensive backfield.

But even Ekuban, who appears a so-so pass rusher, might impress us with
his pass rushing ability if the Broncos can get that push in the middle that
you're talking about.

-----

speardog
11-10-2007, 07:51 PM
How do you know that Okam is slob? He just might be neat freak. :D

Big fat slobs play DT; Neat freaks play OL

topscribe
11-10-2007, 08:07 PM
Big fat slobs play DT; Neat freaks play OL

"Neat" freak . . . you mean like Nalen? :laugh:

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arapaho2
11-10-2007, 08:07 PM
You're right. If the DTs were playing great the DEs would be less of an issue. Thomas will be good. SO Denver needs to spend a draft pick on a young Sam Adams. Frank Okam is the guy I want. Get another big, young, fat slob in there. Actually Denver should probably draft two of these guys next year.

i attribute their lackof success more to the scheme then the skill

arapaho2
11-10-2007, 08:22 PM
I have to agree about the DTs. That is the Broncos' primary area of
weakness. Shoring up that position will probably make more of a difference
than anything else, both in run and pass defense.

However, I still believe Ekuban would have made a difference because he
was the only DE who was really good at run defense. He spent a lot of his
time in the other team's offensive backfield.

But even Ekuban, who appears a so-so pass rusher, might impress us with
his pass rushing ability if the Broncos can get that push in the middle that
you're talking about.

-----

well eks run defense would have been a boon for sure , but i dont think he alone coulda prevented the drop from top 5 rushing d to 32nd

and the dt play does need to be addressed soon,like six weeks ago.....you know in the pitt game the reports were we dropped bates system and did more attacking...and wouldnt you know it we sacked ben four or five times...by allowing the dt penetration we got huge pass rush...then we resorted back to the same thing and i believe we have only 1-2 sacks in the games after....and none going against the worst pass protection line in the league in detroit

to me its not rocket science to see the system isnt working and a smart coach recognizes that and adapts to a scheme that allows the players to succeed...where a hard headed coach plods on unwhelding to the topic of change

speardog
11-10-2007, 09:00 PM
i attribute their lackof success more to the scheme then the skill

Well, the scheme worked just fine in Miami, GB and Atlanta. Do you think maybe the altitude has affected the scheme?

broncofanatic1987
11-10-2007, 09:32 PM
This was talked about in another topic: not dogging the players or anything, but way too often Shanahan is bringing in players, it seems, because of an influence from one of the other coaches who've simply been around said player(s). It hasn't really worked yet ...

So what if Shanahan did bring in a couple of players on Johnson's recommendation? Is he not supposed to listen to his staff's suggestions? The Bronwncos weren't bad. They were good against the run, but not very good at getting pressure on the quarterback when Coyer decided to stop blitzing as much as he did in 2005. Maybe these new guys will be better at getting pressure on the quarterback than what we've been getting so far this season from the defensive ends.

I'd like to know why Mallard is listed as a DT though. They can't seriously be planning on playing him at that position. Is there some obscure rule that forced them to list him as a DT?:confused:

Lonestar
11-10-2007, 10:04 PM
"Neat" freak . . . you mean like Nalen? :laugh:

-----

or stink.;).

Simple Jaded
11-10-2007, 11:12 PM
No team not named the Pats or Colts is going to win the Superbowl this year.

I love the youth movement. People have been complaining about getting recycled DL for the last few years well, now Denver has a bunch of kids. It will take time. What they lack in experience they'll make up for in hustle. This unit could be very good in 2008.

77 Birdine, Larry DE 6' 4" 265 24 R Oklahoma PS(Ten)- '07
90 Carrington, Paul DE 6' 7" 260 24 2nd Central Florida FA -'07
92 Dumervil, Elvis DL 5' 11" 260 23 2nd Louisville D4b-'06
96 Crowder, Tim DE 6' 4" 275 22 R Texas D2-'07
60 Engelberger, John DE 6' 4" 260 31 8th Virginia Tech T (SF)-'05
94 Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 265 23 R Florida D1- '07
91 Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275 31 9th North Carolina T (Cle)-'05


And a lot less b1tching......:salute:

Simple Jaded
11-10-2007, 11:18 PM
Mallard backing up the DT's? He can't be much worse than Gordon was......

rcsodak
11-10-2007, 11:40 PM
So we went from picking up the Browns' trash to picking up the Falcons' trash? Why the hell does Shanahan keep signing these nobody players and expecting them to perform? Pisses me off.

It's ok, ingred....

...mallard WAS with the browns.....;)

rcsodak
11-10-2007, 11:53 PM
:confused:
Well, the scheme worked just fine in Miami, GB and Atlanta. Do you think maybe the altitude has affected the scheme?

What's scary, though, is what is Miami's D doing lately? Is this defense only good for a few years, and then sucks? It looks to me like GB's 'new' D is more of an attacking Dline than what Bates prefers. And it's looking rather nice.

I think it's rather assinine to have Big DT's that just stand up the Olinemen, instead of attacking. How many top 5 D's emply that method? Is that the same scheme that GB played denver with in the Super Bowl? How many yards did TD have? Elway?

broncofanatic1987
11-11-2007, 12:27 AM
:confused:

What's scary, though, is what is Miami's D doing lately? Is this defense only good for a few years, and then sucks? It looks to me like GB's 'new' D is more of an attacking Dline than what Bates prefers. And it's looking rather nice.

I think it's rather assinine to have Big DT's that just stand up the Olinemen, instead of attacking. How many top 5 D's emply that method? Is that the same scheme that GB played denver with in the Super Bowl? How many yards did TD have? Elway?

Didn't Miami switch schemes this year?

The fact of the matter is, Bates produced top ten defenses in two cities. There's nothing asinine about a scheme that works. It's unfortunate that the Broncos don't appear to have the talent to execute the scheme.

I don't think the goal of the tackles is to stand up offensive linemen. I think the goal is to control a gap and force the offense to use more than one blocker to try to defeat each tackle, there by freeing up the linebackers to flow to the ball and the defensive ends to get after the quarterback. It doesn't work if the linebackers miss tackles and don't maintain their gaps though. It also doesn't help if the tackles don't do their job either, which is probably why Gordon is in the unemployment line now.

I can't even blame Bates for waiting so lo long to modify the scheme. Bringing the safety up into the box has hurt the pass defense, which probably wasn't as good as it seemed to begin with. When offenses can run the ball with impunity, there's no need to throw the ball much anyway.

Maybe the new guys can help improve the defense, but I wouldn't count on it. The defense probably won't be good until next year when they have a chance to get better linebackers and defensive tackles.

eessydo
11-12-2007, 01:45 PM
So we went from picking up the Browns' trash to picking up the Falcons' trash? Why the hell does Shanahan keep signing these nobody players and expecting them to perform? Pisses me off.

At least the trash is only a few days old and doesn't smell as bad as the roadkill from Cleveland that had fermented into a soupy mass of crap.

This stuff is a little younger and at least has a pulse.

eessydo
11-12-2007, 01:56 PM
:confused:

What's scary, though, is what is Miami's D doing lately? Is this defense only good for a few years, and then sucks? It looks to me like GB's 'new' D is more of an attacking Dline than what Bates prefers. And it's looking rather nice.

I think it's rather assinine to have Big DT's that just stand up the Olinemen, instead of attacking. How many top 5 D's emply that method? ?

Bates was not there during the Elway years, so why ask the question?

Second, defenses get old, they all rise and decline, so what is your point?

third, every top 5 defense today has DT's that attack gaps and stand up D-lineman. The rush comes from the outside, not inside. there job, is to clog up the gaps first, and force the play outside. If it is a pass, then they try to collapse the pocket as quickly as possible.

primary responsibility is to keep the o-line hogs off the second tier of defense, the LB's. Also look to draw double teams inside to create 1 on 1 edge Pass rushing opportunities on the outside. So tackle on DE.

The only exception to this rule was Warren Sapp on the old Tampa defense, he attacked that backfield and was used as a pash rusher due to his quickness.

The new GB Def, still has Bates' stamp on it. Aaron Kampman is a Bates DE player, big strong edge rusher, Same with Jason Taylor. Nice blend of size and speed that can either over power or run around OL-Tackles. They are the exact opposite of guys like dumervil and freeny that pretty much use speed to get to the QB and have not bull rushing capability to get the Tackle off balance.

Here is a little bates history for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bates_(American_football_coach)

Astrass
11-12-2007, 09:23 PM
Curious, did any of the new guys get play time last week? Any thing stand out if so?

speardog
11-13-2007, 09:17 AM
:confused:

What's scary, though, is what is Miami's D doing lately? Is this defense only good for a few years, and then sucks? It looks to me like GB's 'new' D is more of an attacking Dline than what Bates prefers. And it's looking rather nice.

I think it's rather assinine to have Big DT's that just stand up the Olinemen, instead of attacking. How many top 5 D's emply that method? Is that the same scheme that GB played denver with in the Super Bowl? How many yards did TD have? Elway?

Bates hasn't even coached in Miami for 3 or 4 years.

speardog
11-13-2007, 09:22 AM
I'll tell you who I thought looked really good was Crowder. He is very quick and quite a physical Specimen. Unlike Denver's other DEs this guy is pretty big weight wise but he showed that he is also very quick.

I know that isn't what you were looking for but I was impressed with his play.

topscribe
11-13-2007, 09:54 AM
Curious, did any of the new guys get play time last week? Any thing stand out if so?

Both Bates and Shanny commented on Mallard's play, I believe, and so did one
of the other players . . . maybe Champ, as I remember. They said he played
very well for someone who was sitting on his sofa watching the games the
week before. That was essentially their comments, anyway.

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Astrass
11-13-2007, 01:39 PM
Both Bates and Shanny commented on Mallard's play, I believe, and so did one
of the other players . . . maybe Champ, as I remember. They said he played
very well for someone who was sitting on his sofa watching the games the
week before. That was essentially their comments, anyway.

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Champ speaks only the truth...... :cool: